Post by: nemo_83 on February 23, 2004, 06:12:05 AM
He has also said he would like to do a Kid Iccarus. He has also said he wouldn't mind doing another MG, possibly a new one.
I always come up with these crazy ideas like when I came up with the idea of cel shading in Zelda back when I saw Sonic Shuffle on the Dreamcast or that VR (DS) is needed to imerse the gamer into the game and give them greater ease of control by implementing camera control into head gear. Well I came up with an idea concerning SK developing a realistic Zelda after playing ED a while back and posted a poll on forums.xengamers.com and people thought I was nuts generally as usual. Maybe soon their server will be back up and I'll post a link.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2004, 06:17:20 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on February 23, 2004, 06:27:12 AM
I think that was last March.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 23, 2004, 06:50:50 AM
Oh and by "mature" I mean darker and more serious but not an 'M' rating. A 'T' would be the ideal rating or else too many younger Zelda fans wouldn't get a chance to play it.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2004, 07:05:06 AM
Post by: kennyb27 on February 23, 2004, 07:15:24 AM
QuoteDo you really think Nintendo would respond to even that?
One thing that would be very interesting is how well this would sell compared to Wind Waker. It would give Nintendo an indication of how popular their cartoon design really is.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 23, 2004, 07:26:45 AM
I don't know. Super Smash Bros. Melee got a 'T' rating for some reason. Unless they stick with the Wind Waker style (and you know completely sabotage the future sales of their best franchise) I wouldn't be surprised if even an EAD Zelda would someday get a 'T' rating. There's a lot of 'T' games out there that are tamer than Ocarina of Time which got an 'E' rating.
Unless Nintendo just pays the ESRB off which they may be doing already anyhow.
Post by: Deguello on February 23, 2004, 07:58:24 AM
As for Denis, eh. If yes cool, but I think this is unlikely.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2004, 08:08:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Unless Nintendo just pays the ESRB off which they may be doing already anyhow.
As I said, there will never be a Zelda with anything harsher than an "E" rating...
Post by: The Omen on February 23, 2004, 09:59:44 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 23, 2004, 03:34:17 PM
Post by: Perfect Cell on February 23, 2004, 05:05:34 PM
Post by: Armed on February 23, 2004, 05:11:24 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 23, 2004, 05:13:55 PM
Quote
Zelda will never have anything more than an "E" rating...period...It just won't happen...
I think what you mean, Bill, is that Zelda will never get more violent- with all the negative publicity about videogames, and the ESRB tightening ratings, Zelda may one day get a Teen rating simply. :\
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2004, 05:21:24 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 23, 2004, 05:22:30 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 23, 2004, 05:23:45 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 23, 2004, 08:06:27 PM
Post by: Deguello on February 24, 2004, 12:13:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The ESRB apparently judges games by a video presented by the publisher. A recent study showed that the ESRB often doesn't notice things that happen within the first hour of gameplay.
Well Damn, if that was the case every game would get an E, because all you would really have to do is show fluffy forests and magical springtime follies for a heavily-edited hour.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 24, 2004, 05:54:42 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 24, 2004, 06:01:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Because any attempts at preventing children from buying games like GTA III and Manhunt were blocked as "violations of free speech"...
That's the biggest load of crock I've ever heard...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 24, 2004, 10:09:42 AM
I'd love to see SK make a zelda. Imagine someone close to Link dieing, we'd actually get to see Link in those new mature feelings. It would be cool if Link had some rage meter. Lets say that your trying to protect a village from a horde of Goblins and each time they would kill someone while your fighting them off, it would freeze the action, take the camera off of you and show the person about to die, then the camera would go back to you and show Link noticing what's about to happen and you would see his frustration and hear his cry of anger. This would result in a boost in the rage meter. It sounds like a hack'n slash but it shouldn't be. Everytime this happens it would get more intense (music, louder crys of anger, much more frustration) and finally Link would snap. If you don't get what i'm saying imagine DBZ when goku realizes someone has died, how he just explodes with energy. He would be able to things he couldn't normally do (not supernatural things). The best part about a mature Zelda would be the fact that impending doom seems more overwhelming becuase people aren't just ignorant of things to come. They die, or run from death. It would cause a panic like impending doom should. What i'm trying to say is it would seem more realistic. Plus if they made something like this, Link would seem a greater hero, since he has to battle with his courage constantly, if he sees people he cares about, fall victim to some evil.
This would probably only work for adult Link. Also, why is it that Link is always there right before things get bad. He should be raised as a child after things get bad. Like his mother had to run away from her village, Link in hand, to escape a terrible evil. But she knew she wouldn't survive so she sent Link away, I don't know given to the deku tree or something.
Just a thought, i'd love to see it a reality. It would be cool even if it wasn't a Zelda game.
Post by: Mannypon on February 24, 2004, 10:44:19 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 24, 2004, 10:50:16 AM
This is Zelda, not Lord of the Rings...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 24, 2004, 10:59:24 AM
"May the Force be with you."
LotR fans:
"Frodo still lives!"
Zelda fans:
"Frodo still lives!"
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 24, 2004, 11:02:35 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 24, 2004, 11:57:44 AM
I just want something with a style and mood similar to the N64 Zeldas. In my opinion Wind Waker overcompensates on being family friendly.
Post by: Syl on February 24, 2004, 12:29:06 PM
I'm sure that the official art has something to do with this however.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on February 24, 2004, 02:04:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Because any attempts at preventing children from buying games like GTA III and Manhunt were blocked as "violations of free speech" and selling porn falls under the same broad definition of "free speech"...
Breaches of Human Rights can be justified (ligitimatley or otherwise) through the concept that the breach protects the rights of others e.g. jailing someone removes their right to freedom, but it will protect other's rights if the person being jailed would have otherwise commited a crime.
An example of this applied to games can be found here:
Quote
the freedom of expression is outweighed by likelihood of injury to the public good that could result from this game's availability.
The word 'mature' is branded around too much. I don't just mean it's used incorrectly, I mean it's completley out of context and has lost the entirety of it's original meaning. The ratings authourity uses the phrases on the boxes to describe the correct audience, not the game. Mature is intended to mean that the people who play the game should be mature (i.e. old) enough not to take it's content to heart or whatever. The fact the embolded words switch between nouns and adjectives doesn't help the misconception.
I'm personally happy with both the cel-shading and with EAD developing the console Zeldas. It's been so much of a struggle to push acceptance of the WW graphic style, I really couldn't see Nintendo changing their mind. It's too late to stop now.
Post by: ThePerm on February 24, 2004, 05:01:21 PM
Iv been pondering doing a metroid series thats not about samus aran or even mentions the metroids but makes at least soem allusions and has a similar style.
Post by: nemo_83 on February 24, 2004, 05:17:16 PM
So in closing I support the continuation of cel shaded gaming in the Zelda franchise, but I feel that even though WW had the greatest character and background designs of any game ever I think they should change the design style to a more naturalistic or manuristic style instead of a manga style as found in WW. Also themes, story, sound, voice acting, cut scenes, emotion, deaths (maybe), and other things would really benifit from a maturation. Difficulty should increase and my own personal complaint of course is that the adventure in WW was so overplayed, straight forward, linear, old, and lacking ambition. The ocean should have had continents as well as some small islands. Instead it was a grid with a ton of little islands and never a grid of just open ocean.
In a realistic Zelda I would have Link ride a dragon that eventually can swim and fly as he grows as well as run fast and attack enemies while you ride.
Post by: Djunknown on February 24, 2004, 05:18:23 PM
Yeah, for the most part, you have to be 18 to buy 'Adult products'. Most 'Adult' shops will card you right at the door. As far as buying violent games, that's still in the air but I digress...
It seems we're hanging on every word Denis Dyack says. Every time he does an interview, he's dying to tell you more, but I'm sure the big execs would 'reprimand' him. Shiggy has gone on record the one after Wind Wake 2 will have a different style, so who knows?
Post by: KDR_11k on February 25, 2004, 03:47:20 AM
Djunknown: Can you get in jail for providing adult material to minors?
OOT was anime style, noone complained. Why do people complain about WW?
Post by: nemo_83 on February 25, 2004, 05:24:57 AM
Another example would be how Mario 64 is a bad move on the behalf of Nintendo as Mario 64 changes the gameplay for the benefit of the looks. So instead of getting a very fast Sonic pushed Mario with coop on top of all the old stuff such as flowers, shrooms, yoshis, flying, Luigi, stars, huge worlds, and platforming; we got a new kind of game that shouldn't have even been a Mario title. It should have been Billy Hatcher and not a scavenger hunt in a misleading disguise. Not that Mario 64 was bad, it just wasn't Mario; and that is the end of my 389th rant about Mario 64 taking Nintendo down the path to franchising every new idea.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 25, 2004, 06:10:46 AM
LOL, don't compare a crappy game to a classic, please...
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2004, 06:26:05 AM
Huh? OoT didn't expand the Zelda gameplay? Have you ever f*cking played that game? I don't recall any horseback riding, z-targeting, first person aiming, day and night, etc in any previous Zelda games. And unlike Super Mario 64 it didn't change the gameplay either. Zelda was ALWAYS meant to be 3D it just wasn't able to be made as such until the N64. The overhead view of the 2D games is to simulate 3D.
"OOT was anime style, noone complained. Why do people complain about WW?"
No one complained about OoT's style because it was a natural progression of the style seen in A Link to the Past. Some people have since decided it was a change in style but it wasn't. When OoT was first shown to the public NO ONE complained. Everyone said "Now THAT'S Zelda". And it still does look like a natural progression. Both LttP and OoT had anime style designs. Everything was just more proportionate in OoT because with 3D the characters didn't have to all be midgets. OoT is what LttP would look like in 3D.
Wind Waker however is not a natural progression of the style seen in OoT so thus it was not initially accepted. At best it could be described as a different interpretation of the LttP style in 3D. Personally I find it to be completely unique and only slightly resembles any of the previous Zelda games. A lot of people feel it resembles LttP in 3D. If that's the case then why do LttP and The 4 Swords use completely different sprites? Surely if they were identical styles there would be no need for that. If one compares LttP and 4 Swords one can see that the difference between those two styles is night and day.
OoT's style was a progression, WW's style was a CHANGE and that's why people complained about it and that's why I don't want to see that style continue on the next Nintendo console.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 25, 2004, 06:40:16 AM
Please enlighten us on how a "realistic" Zelda could "progress" any more than WW's style...
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2004, 06:46:21 AM
Um, I never mentioned anything about a "realistic" Zelda. All I said is that the OoT style (which is not a realistic style, only a more realistic one than WW) is a natural progression of the Zelda style and WW is not. Therefore I prefer the OoT style and want the series to continue in that direction. Why whenever anyone says they prefer the OoT style to WW that all the WW supporters accuse them of wanting some super realistic Zelda or a violent exploitive one?
Post by: Mannypon on February 25, 2004, 08:24:25 AM
Post by: odifiend on February 25, 2004, 09:06:46 AM
Post by: Mannypon on February 25, 2004, 09:19:02 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 25, 2004, 11:29:35 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 25, 2004, 11:34:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Um, I never mentioned anything about a "realistic" Zelda. All I said is that the OoT style (which is not a realistic style, only a more realistic one than WW) is a natural progression of the Zelda style and WW is not. Therefore I prefer the OoT style and want the series to continue in that direction. Why whenever anyone says they prefer the OoT style to WW that all the WW supporters accuse them of wanting some super realistic Zelda or a violent exploitive one?
I meant "realistic" as in the OoT sense(not in a super-violent sense)...And I think Wind Waker's style fits the Zelda universe much more...
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 25, 2004, 12:13:47 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on February 25, 2004, 01:10:26 PM
I would agree with him to an extent.
I really don't think we'll see anything like this 'perfect zelda' until next gen.
We'll have to see if SK can make a truly unique and original 3rd person game (no fixed cinematic cameras ala ED) with a good camera system before we'll be able to think if they can do a realistic Zelda, even though we know EAD woulf be helping.
Post by: Rich on February 25, 2004, 01:50:19 PM
Despite the fact that I think the Zelda series looks better as a realistic game i think that the WW would have looked stupid as a realistic game. I mean its not exactly normal to see wind, which was very important to the game, not to mention it would be ridiculous to see a talking boat. So as The Wind Waker goes i like the direction it took but i would like to see a realistic Zelda next time.
Post by: ThePerm on February 25, 2004, 02:51:42 PM
Post by: Djunknown on February 25, 2004, 04:21:06 PM
Quote
Can you get in jail for providing adult material to minors?
I believe for the first offense no. They'd lose their job, and get slapped with a hefty fine. And if said vendor looks for another job, the employers see that they made an 'unwise' descion. I can imagine if they're stupid enough to do it again, I wouldn't be surprised they'd do some time.
Looks like we're having the classic Oot vs WW argument again. I believe we can go at it until the end of time, but I'd like to focus on the possibilty that if they let Silicon Knights do the 11th incaration of Zelda(Remember that #10 is WW2).
I think they would 'mature' the franchise, not by adding blood n guts, but by telling a genuine, tight-knit, in-depth story. As far as visuals, whatever works to suit the mood, and I'll leave it at that.
Post by: WesDawg on February 25, 2004, 04:53:57 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 25, 2004, 04:58:41 PM
Post by: ThePerm on February 25, 2004, 06:50:42 PM
Post by: Mannypon on February 25, 2004, 07:36:26 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 25, 2004, 08:46:52 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 26, 2004, 06:29:23 AM
Getting back on topic I agree that FF:CC has a style that would fit Zelda pretty well. It's lighthearted yet the graphics are very nice to look at and what's supposed to be scary and dark looks scary and dark. Plus I find that the graphics have more depth to them. Cel-shaded graphics tend to look flat to me like I'm watching someone travel the world instead of travelling it myself.
"Despite the fact that I think the Zelda series looks better as a realistic game i think that the WW would have looked stupid as a realistic game. I mean its not exactly normal to see wind, which was very important to the game, not to mention it would be ridiculous to see a talking boat."
Agreed though I think wind could have been done without cel-shading. Wind is "seen" in real life by particles it blows around and that's easy to show with literally showing it. Wind in the hair for example works pretty well. However a talking boat would have looked stupid in any other style as would Link's super fun happy dance. Of course I absolutely hated BOTH of those elements and thought they were very non-Zelda like. How interesting that the stuff that required cel-shading is all traditionally non-Zelda like (facial expressions, incredibly goofy looking moblins).
Post by: CaseyRyback on February 26, 2004, 07:16:57 AM
Personally I would rather see SK develop the next Zone of Enders
Post by: KDR_11k on February 26, 2004, 07:56:03 AM
I also think that the levels themselves are a bit limited in colors. Primarily grey/green/brown and a bit of red where there's lava. Those are colors usually associated with Quake!
BTW, anyone else think Link went through the same progression as Guybrush Threepwood? I mean, wasn't that guy brown haired in 1 and 2?
Djunknown: Well, why doesn't that happen with vendors selling "mature" games to minors?
Manny: Please, look up what CGI means before abusing that abbreviation any more. You probably mean CG as in Computer Graphics.
Post by: Mannypon on February 26, 2004, 08:22:24 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 26, 2004, 08:50:21 AM
Yeah he debuted the blonde hair in Ocarina of Time. However since there's been by my count four different Links (I'm not sure who the Oracles guy is) it seems perfectly normal for some of them to have brown hair and others to have blonde. They all have slightly different costumes as well.
Post by: odifiend on February 26, 2004, 09:48:25 AM
Quote
Well, why doesn't that happen with vendors selling "mature" games to minors?
Well, first of all the way the public (America anyway) sees pornography and video games is just completely different. Everyone beleives that pornography is more immediately damaging to a child than a game however true that may be. Also it is a federal and established law that no one under age 18 can buy pornography. Video games only recently having the graphical capabilities to traumatize with gore and sex, have been mostly seen as games and have been sold without a second thought.
The reason the Supreme Court turned the restriction on Manhunt and GTA down was because it is actually a state government's job to do that- that is why you see such laws in California. Checks and balances of US govt. As for why vendors aren't punished is that either the state they live in doesn't care or they aren't strict enough.
If Link is always different, why can't he be black or hispanic, or zora or goron? Is the Triforce racist? I call for Affirmative Action
! Seriously though if Miyamoto and Aunomora?~(man I can never remember his name) believe each Link is different, let's see them put their money where their mouth is.
Post by: Rich on February 26, 2004, 09:59:57 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 26, 2004, 10:07:51 AM
Well I assume that according to prophesies and whatnot he has to be a Hylian. Judging by the games Hylians all have white skin and pointy ears. They're like the elves in Lord or the Rings. Since Hylian's are not humans it's possible that they only have one skin colour.
Post by: odifiend on February 26, 2004, 10:12:59 AM
I wouldn't give a flying ______ what color Link was if it was the same Link the whole time.
Yeah Rich, I get what you're saying about being able to recognize the franchise.
Dang, Ian, that is a really good point. I never even noticed that Hylians were white. And I guess the prophecies could take care of the no Goron or Zora heroes. At least we had the masks in MM
.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 26, 2004, 10:20:47 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on February 26, 2004, 10:24:16 AM
With Zelda the series is traditionally played in three quarters view just as most landscapes are painted from a three quarters view with a high horizon which flatens things making them more graphic. The reason is because for most reasons this view is best, not only asthetically, but also in offering freedom in character control. With WW the camera system was up to the player thus the view was nolonger set behind the character giving only a low horizon line view or a close top down view offering little in seeing the surroundings. I believe Nintendo listened to complaints about camera view needing to be an option as many of us realized that most of the time three quarters vantage point offers alot more except in some cases when you can easily move the camera yourself. So you can choose a more 2d profile view that really shows how 2d vs 3d is not really a fight of whether it really is 2d or 3d, but rather whether the view is 2d or 3d.
As far as WW, Oot, and LttP being related in design I will say that the series has always been all over the map as far as how the games look. I felt that OoT wanted to be cel shaded like WW so that the character designs in the game (and the ones from the old games that didn't make it into OoT because they didn't fit at all with the asthetics) would fit the appearance of the game. Also cel shading's flatness is very true to how we see in 2d shades which is remenescent of old school 2d graphics like in LttP.
Mario 64 was a great game; amazing how people have selective hearing, but it didn't play like a 2d Mario because Nintendo was new the game of 3d. I believe now; just now, that Nintendo is seeing how supperior 2d is to 3d in offering accessable views rather than gameplay that must be riged up to get the player to roam fully in 3d rather than taking a path. Once again let me say that Zelda was always more lending to a 3d engine with a view that was although 2d, it was also able to offer a 3d illusionistic experience. I don't believe N64 had the power to do a 3d Zelda.
Before I go I want to say, that stuff about Nintendo not wanting to do a realistic Zelda because it would have glitches is ridiculous. Just look at Metroid, which I also hope will become cel shaded (similar to Ico). What's going on is Nintendo is being economical rather than ambitious these days.
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 26, 2004, 10:24:31 AM
Quote
Still I can't really respect the idea that all Links are different yet they all look the same.
While each Link is technically different, you can view them all as embodying the same spirit. Hence the striking similarity in appearance.
Quote
Before I go I want to say, that stuff about Nintendo not wanting to do a realistic Zelda because it would have glitches is ridiculous. Just look at Metroid, which I also hope will become cel shaded (similar to Ico).
Ico isn't cel-shaded. It does indeed have a very striking visual style (almost like an oil painting), but I think the only thing in Ico that was cel-shaded was Yorda.
Quote
What's going on is Nintendo is being economical rather than ambitious these days.
Perhpas Nintendo just hasn't gotten around to doing a relealistic Zelda yet- the series will live for a very long time, it's not like Nintendo is restricted in that sense.
Post by: odifiend on February 26, 2004, 10:55:56 AM
Quote
While each Link is technically different, you can view them all as embodying the same spirit. Hence the striking similarity in appearance.
Even if you trust that if people were reincarnated they'd look similar to their previous self, the fact that the Hylian race remained the same where other races, Zoras (more suitable for a water environment) and Kokiris, evolved, is kind of crazy. Also in other games that deal with reincarnation, (Crono Cross comes to mind) *begins walking on eggshells, after mentioning a Square game post FFVII* Crono and Serge look similar enough to know they are of the same spirit but look different enough. I do get what you are saying though and do understand it myself, but as Miyamoto and crew continue to spin the story, it seems more and more evident that the story was added after the fact, creating loopholes of DBZ proportions
. Whatever... gameplay matters most. Still with all the loopholes, cinematic SK might have a tough time creating a matching story for their (potential) game.
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 26, 2004, 11:22:51 AM
And the stories have always been added after the fact, that's just the way Miyamoto makes games- gameplay first, story second. Really the only two Zeldas I thought had much of a story at all were Majora's Mask and Wind Waker.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 26, 2004, 11:28:44 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 26, 2004, 11:30:31 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 26, 2004, 11:35:22 AM
In one such interview, someone(Miyamoto, perhaps) said it was 100 years later, but Eiji Aonuma(the director of Wind Waker) said 1000, I believe...Now I'm confused... O_o
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 26, 2004, 11:58:11 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 26, 2004, 12:18:28 PM
They evolved, just as the Zoras did...
Why is the Master Sword in Hyrule Castle?
Because OoT Link left it with the Hylians when he departed after OoT...The Hylians, in turn, created a shrine for it, and hid it in case it be needed in the future...
Where did the Temple of Time go?
It's been 100-1000 years since OoT...Buildings get demolished, new ones erected, etc...
The King of Hyrule never did anything important in OoT. In fact, we never even saw him! So why is he a Chineese boat? It's been 100-1000 years! There's no way it could be the same King from OoT!
And because he's dead, he put his spirit into the boat, that is all...Why did Ganon get out of the Evil Realm?
Really the only thing that wasn't fully answered...I think it is perhaps that the Master Sword lost it's power over the long period of time, allowing Ganon to break free...Or maybe he wasn't sealed properly in the first place(think back to the ending of OoT...)
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 26, 2004, 12:27:21 PM
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 26, 2004, 12:30:11 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 26, 2004, 12:35:02 PM
Quote
the whole point of the second half of OoT was to build a perfect seal.
Obviously it wasn't perfect, considering Ocarina of Time comes first chronologically and nearly every Zelda game afterwards features Ganondorf/Ganon as a villain.
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 26, 2004, 12:35:29 PM
Maybee they got bored of the most sacred landmark in Hyrule, and decide to put in a Famer John's Market, and piss off the Gods! "We dont need to keep this sacred building here! Lets tear it down and piss off the Gods!"
See my point?
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 26, 2004, 12:37:18 PM
Post by: Rich on February 26, 2004, 12:39:02 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 26, 2004, 12:39:50 PM
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 26, 2004, 12:41:30 PM
Post by: theRPGFreak on February 26, 2004, 12:42:50 PM
Post by: Rich on February 26, 2004, 12:45:04 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 26, 2004, 12:52:47 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 26, 2004, 02:01:37 PM
And to makes things weirder they're fish people in the other Zelda games as well only they look completely different. More like the creature from the black lagoon. At one time period do those games take place?
Personally I liked the Zelda storyline much better when it was implied that there were several Links but the games weren't tied together directly. It was a lot more subtle and there were less in-your-face inconsistencies. Once Nintendo actually tried to directly connect the storylines they introduced this stupid water world stuff that really f*cked everything up. Then they explicitly said Wind Waker takes place 1000 years later thus making it damn near impossible for the other games to happen in between. Hopefully everything will be resolved in the next game. Because of Wind Waker I find the overall Zelda storyline is totally wanged. And please don't give me this alternate timeline stuff. That's WAY too complex and I doubt Nintendo thinks of it in those terms. It makes some sense but it's too confusing.
My theory for the order is as follows (Oracle games don't really fit in but they're not EAD games anyway):
OoT/MM
LttP/LA
WW
LoZ/AoL <-- this is last because in this game Hyrule is seperated into East and West which is not present in the previous titles. My theory is it was split by the great flood or a new Hyrule was discovered and established thus being the same in name only.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 26, 2004, 02:12:56 PM
(But I like your idea of LoZ/AoL...
)
Post by: nemo_83 on February 26, 2004, 04:04:14 PM
There have always been mystical races in the series, but they should remain consistent; and they shouldn't change the rules of the universe with each installment while not really changing anything about the adventure or story. Four Swords though actually changes the gameplay. All Zelda needs now is lots of AI in the computer controlled characters and emphasizing on a story that could be both simple and epic without interupting the flow of the game. There just hasn't been a real story in a Zelda game even though each story gets more complex they haven't created any story with the literary equivalent value to the value of the art and gameplay found in the games already.
I also believe that the first Zelda was the hardest in the series, WW is the easiest, and LttP is the bowl of grits that's just right.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on February 26, 2004, 04:32:05 PM
Remember all text in the game has been subject to translation, so the word 'evolve' could be simply be a word that didn't suit English too well. Too many uncertainties exist for any logical conclusion to come forth.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 26, 2004, 07:21:59 PM
Post by: odifiend on February 27, 2004, 06:25:26 AM
.
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 27, 2004, 11:54:17 AM
Quote
Why did nobody complain about the people who evolved into mermen in less than 1000 years in Futurama?
Because the caffeine from the Coca Cola factory sped up their evolution! Weren't you paying attention to the episode?
Post by: revolg_98 on February 27, 2004, 01:03:23 PM
He wasn't completly out at first. Part of him escaped because of the 7 there were only 2 sages left. He killed the other 2 to fully cross over. It makes sence if u've ever read "Dragonlance"
