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Community Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: Perfect Cell on January 13, 2004, 10:21:15 AM

Title: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Perfect Cell on January 13, 2004, 10:21:15 AM: Ed Fries, just resigned from his position at Microsoft Studios. He was one of the more important figures in the development of that console. How bout Nintendo signs him to help with the development of the next Nintendo console, and the reshaping of the Nintendo "Image" Problem? Just a suggestion folks.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Ian Sane on January 13, 2004, 11:11:13 AM: Why not hire him? I highly doubt he could hurt Nintendo's image any more than it already is. However his input has to be reasonably superficial. Stuff like packaging, advertising, console appearence etc. is fine because those are things that Nintendo needs help with. However Nintendo themselves should design the "guts" of the console and the controller itself. The Gamecube hardware itself was fantastic and Nintendo doesn't need anybody helping them there.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: jpturner on January 13, 2004, 11:17:31 AM: It's called a non-compete agreement, and it will prohibit Fries, even if canned, from working for a competitor, and almost all M$oft employees have one.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: AERO on January 13, 2004, 12:15:12 PM: Most that serve roles in all places in the industry have them.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Ian Sane on January 13, 2004, 12:20:48 PM: "It's called a non-compete agreement, and it will prohibit Fries, even if canned, from working for a competitor"

Hasn't Nintendo always said they're not in direct competition with MS and Sony?
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Perfect Cell on January 13, 2004, 12:34:35 PM: Most that serve roles in all places in the industry have them.

Just like Ken Lobb or the guys from Square and Sega that Microsoft hired away?
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: vudu on January 13, 2004, 02:35:25 PM: Quote
However his input has to be reasonably superficial. Stuff like packaging, advertising, console appearence etc.
yeah, because we all know how much we like the way the xbox looks. and lord knows the "it's good to play together" ads don't get old ever.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Majexto on January 13, 2004, 03:40:12 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: kingvudu
Quote
However his input has to be reasonably superficial. Stuff like packaging, advertising, console appearence etc.
yeah, because we all know how much we like the way the xbox looks. and lord knows the "it's good to play together" ads don't get old ever.

I actually like the xbox adds much more than I do nintendo. Nintendo's adds always have a bunch of geeks and nerds on them which really turn it off. Xbox's commercials I actually can tolerate watching. There best commercial was the Halo christmas commercial not sure all where this was aired I only ever saw it on g4tv. And the console itself of xbox is a good design, its pretty customizable, there are ALOT of mods people do to xbox. There is alot more that could be done to the cube probably though people just dont take the time. Anyway kind of got off topic. Either way hes worked with microsoft for 14 years and that shows alot of expierence that could definetly benefit the nintendo team. He could definetly turn the image around of the cube I think.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 14, 2004, 01:52:23 AM: I believe it's the other way around, see, Nintendo adds have those strange people in strange costumes and strange stuff. Xbox adds have the geeks and nerds "playing together."
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 14, 2004, 02:34:54 AM: "And the console itself of xbox is a good design"

eh?

And the Xbox DOA3 volleyball commercial is the most sick piece of advertising I've ever seen...Though I guess it does fit the description of a good 99.9% of the people who bought DOA:XV in the first place...
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: yellowfellow on January 14, 2004, 02:42:05 AM: but if you can see past your fanboyism, see how effective microsoft's advertising really is. despite having an arguably "weaker" game line up than nintendo or sony as well as most probably being third in world-wide sales, it is generally seen as the #2 console.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2004, 06:41:49 AM: "yeah, because we all know how much we like the way the xbox looks."

As opposed to what? The super sleek amazing coolest-of-all-time appearance of the Gamecube? The Xbox may be a behemoth and a perfect example of style over substance but at least it doesn't look like a f*cking Fisher Price toy. The Xbox is cool because it is marketed really well. The Gamecube is not cool because it is marketed poorly.

As much as some of you may hate the way the Xbox is marketed the Xbox has become a strong name brand in the videogame market in a little over two years. Why shouldn't Nintendo try to get a little bit of that marketing magic?
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: vudu on January 14, 2004, 07:04:16 AM: because, honestly, there's no way to make games like pikmin and viewtiful joe look cool. they're great games, but they will never fit into the mainstream definition of cool. nintendo seems content doing its own thing. and those of us who love the games they make will continue to support them. the rest of the population doesn't seem to interest nintendo too much.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2004, 08:13:20 AM: "because, honestly, there's no way to make games like pikmin and viewtiful joe look cool. they're great games, but they will never fit into the mainstream definition of cool. nintendo seems content doing its own thing. and those of us who love the games they make will continue to support them. the rest of the population doesn't seem to interest nintendo too much."

Well I'm not suggesting Nintendo should change their game or anything. But just because a handful of their games will never be regarded as "cool" (though I think VJ is pretty cool in a cult way) isn't any reason for Nintendo not to try to improve their image. They can make some changes with the next generation that will in no way affect the games they make. Sure some part of Nintendo will always be sort of "kiddy" but that doesn't mean they can't at least make better ads and make the next console look more neutral. Nintendo has enough cool games like Metroid, Eternal Darkness, 1080, and Zelda (provided they don't continue down the cartoon route) that as long as they just market these in a more agressive manner their image can improve.

If the main people behind the Xbox were able to make Oddworld seem cool than surely one of them can at least help. Anyone that can get people talking about Mad Dash Racing like it's a killer app can only be an asset.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Jale on January 14, 2004, 08:59:42 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
" Zelda (provided they don't continue down the cartoon route)

What have you got against it? Killer 7 and XIII both have toon-shading, and they aren't acussed of being kiddy!
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 14, 2004, 09:10:35 AM: I swear, if someone is that self-conscious(/insecure about themself) about how cool they look playing a videogame, that's pretty sad...
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Jale on January 14, 2004, 09:46:57 AM: I completly agree. Who is going to see you playing it? Your mom? Your pets? Or even.....darleks? Come on people! Games are to entertain and distract, not to make you look cool!
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2004, 10:57:14 AM: "What have you got against it? Killer 7 and XIII both have toon-shading, and they aren't acussed of being kiddy!"

Umm, Killer 7 and XIII don't have tiny elves with eyeballs bigger than their feet dancing after defeating a boss. And this isn't about what I think it's about what the general public thinks. Zelda was considered a cool franchise on the N64. It isn't on the Gamecube. Therefore Zelda is a "cool" Nintendo series provided it doesn't remain toon-shaded. I don't want to get into a big Zelda debate when that topic has been beaten to death and this thread isn't about that. It's about Ed Fries and how he may or may not be an asset to Nintendo.

And I'm REALLY sick of people mixing up me stating the general public's opinion with me stating my own opinion. "Game x sold poorly because it looked kiddy" and "I don't like game x because it's kiddy" are totally different statements.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 14, 2004, 11:07:56 AM: If you thought I was directing my comment at you, then that's not the case...I was directing it at the legions of casual gamers out there that need to "look cool" while gaming...Well, it's not going to happen...You're not any cooler playing Vice City than you are playing Mario...
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 14, 2004, 11:12:11 AM: Quote
but if you can see past your fanboyism, see how effective microsoft's advertising really is. despite having an arguably "weaker" game line up than nintendo or sony as well as most probably being third in world-wide sales, it is generally seen as the #2 console.

I'd say it was pretty horrible- the XBox is 3rd in just about every region around the world. Sony and Nintendo both took over the industry with their respective first consoles. I'd either get Peter Main back or whoever the hell is at Sony. Ed Fries is a jackass- I would rather Nintendo hire him then "accidently" run him over with a truck than actually do anything with him.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 14, 2004, 11:21:32 AM: I don't quote fellow forumers often, but damn, that was one heck of a good quote... ^_^
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2004, 11:22:23 AM: "I'd say it was pretty horrible- the XBox is 3rd in just about every region around the world. Sony and Nintendo both took over the industry with their respective first consoles."

Well you can't realistically expect every company to take over the industry with their first machine. Sony and Nintendo had a lot of luck and were in the right place at the right time. I consider MS more like Sega. Although they made some huge mistakes few wouldn't consider Sega as a one time major console manufacturer. Nintendo's dominance has shrunk with each generation. MS however in two years has gone from a complete non-factor in the game industry to a widely regarded major player. The Xbox is more popular than the Cube and is selling better in the most important market. While doom and gloom predictions about Nintendo are common they are non existant for Microsoft's Xbox division despite being in third place (which is arguable in itself) and having shown no profits.

The Xbox is doing WAY better than most of us thought and in my opinion better than it deserves to. Fries is partially responsible for that so I see him as an asset. Sure he may be a jackass but he would be Nintendo's jackass and Nintendo could use someone who doesn't come across as a wimp for once.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 14, 2004, 11:45:06 AM: Ian, consider the big names in console manufacturing before Micrsoft entered the game. First was Atari, and they controlled the industry immediately. Second was Nintendo, who also controlled the industry immediately. Third is Sony, who controlled the industry immediately as well. Sega is the only big name not to have hit it big with their first console. You may say it's unrealistic for MS to control the industry with their first console, but Atari, Nintendo, and Sony did it. Hell, Nintendo had to revive the industy single handedly, and Sony had to work their way up from nothing against the immense opponents that were Sega and Nintendo at the time. Even if you disregard all that, 3rd place is not good, even for an entry level console. MS could have done a lot better, especially in the Eastern market.

Quote
Sure he may be a jackass but he would be Nintendo's jackass and Nintendo could use someone who doesn't come across as a wimp for once.

Remind me again how this has any relevance to anything. Last I checked Nintendo's problems were not caused "wimpy" executives.

The Xbox is more popular than the Cube and is selling better in the most important market.

Not anymore- and that especially doesn't mean anything when the XBox was being outsold by the Playstation for a while in Japan. Sure, Japan's market isn't as large as North America's, but a difference THAT big means something. Being slightly behind in North America is better than being WAY behind in Japan.

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While doom and gloom predictions about Nintendo are common they are non existant for Microsoft's Xbox division despite being in third place (which is arguable in itself) and having shown no profits.

Exactly- the XBox is failing worse than the Gamecube ever was, and MS is losing money while Nintendo is making a lot of it. People only attack Nintendo because it catches your attention. Except it's not arguable the XBox is in 3rd place- I believe the Gamecube is some 2-3 million units ahead worldwide.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: yellowfellow on January 14, 2004, 11:54:39 AM: fine, i agree that sales-wise the advertising would appear to be a failure, but you can't deny the fact that it has been successful in generating an image of success which has many viewing it as the #2 system as well as many eagerly anticipating the next Xbox, all despite the fact that true substance is lacking.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 14, 2004, 12:00:22 PM: Image is nothing without the sales to back it up- the PS2 has as good an image as the XBox, except the key difference is that it sells a LOT better. It doesn't matter if people think it's the number 2 system- all that matters is it's not.

I do agree that I'm surprised the XBox has done as well as it is, being that, as you said, it is seriously lacking in content in my opinion- the only games I like for it, excluding Halo and KOTOR, have sold horribly.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: yellowfellow on January 14, 2004, 12:03:20 PM: Quote
Exactly- the XBox is failing worse than the Gamecube ever was, and MS is losing money while Nintendo is making a lot of it. People only attack Nintendo because it catches your attention. Except it's not arguable the XBox is in 3rd place- I believe the Gamecube is some 2-3 million units ahead worldwide.

Though doom predictions of such a respectable company as nintendo do generate attention, again, i feel that Xbox's image of success is what keeps the "Xbox is doomed/last/a failure" at bay despite all the reasons that Ian had posted.

Quote
Image is nothing without the sales to back it up- the PS2 has as good an image as the XBox, except the key difference is that it sells a LOT better. It doesn't matter if people think it's the number 2 system- all that matters is it's not.

i think it'll matter next round though, when MS can use this image as brand name power for securing consumer confidence.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 14, 2004, 12:05:50 PM: Quote
Though doom predictions of such a respectable company as nintendo do generate attention, again, i feel that Xbox's image of success is what keeps the "Xbox is doomed/last/a failure" at bay despite all the reasons that Ian had posted.

That is a good point- it would be nice if people wouldn't be hounding on Nintendo all the time, regardless of how well they're doing. I just think in the end my hatred for Ed Fries goes beyond the advantage of having him work for Nintendo- he might try to sabotage something.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 14, 2004, 12:42:32 PM: Quote
the only games I like for it, excluding Halo and KOTOR, have sold horribly.

And I don't even like KOTOR.

But I don't care. As long as I'm allowed to play Nintendo games, both new and old, the world will be safe.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2004, 01:32:04 PM: "Remind me again how this has any relevance to anything. Last I checked Nintendo's problems were not caused "wimpy" executives."

I guess I made a poor choice of words. People like Ed Fries (and almost everyone involved with the Xbox) are agressive and are able to get people interested in stuff that is actually not all that great. Most of the higher ups in Nintendo (both in Japan and the US) are not as agressive. Nintendo currently has a more laid back approach to the console market and that's not really benefiting them much. Someone who is agressive like Fries would make a good addition to the Nintendo team. He's coming in from a different perspective and with some different approaches to things.

And I still think you're selling the Xbox short. Microsoft has created a strong console fanbase out of nothing. Even if it's in last place (which I still think is arguable since I get conflicting reports from everywhere on which console has sold better) it's growing. The Xbox is like the Sega Master System. It's slowly gaining a strong following and brand name that will ensure more success for it's follow-up. The next MS console could be more like the Genesis and have a larger market share. Next time around MS will have a strong brand name and (likely) no significant Sony headstart to fight against. It's going to do better.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 14, 2004, 01:35:12 PM: Quote
I guess I made a poor choice of words. People like Ed Fries (and almost everyone involved with the Xbox) are agressive and are able to get people interested in stuff that is actually not all that great.

THAT I agree with- ever since Yamauchi left Nintendo has seemed a bit wishy washy. It would be nice to have some really agressive people up there, but not Ed Fries.

And maybe I am selling the XBox a little short, but its successes have been minute if that and its failures have been grand, and I think a lot of people don't realize that.
Title: RE:Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 14, 2004, 03:17:09 PM: I say being laid back always comes out best in the long run. I mean, even if your business fails and everything you know has gone to nothing, still no worries, right? Look at me. I'm happy. Easy going is the way to go.
Title: RE: Thinking outside the Cube?
Post by: ThePerm on January 15, 2004, 07:46:00 PM: Xbox sure launched really strong...and that was one of Fries success..i wouldnt discount him. He seemed like nice guy as well. I never had any anomosity towards him
yet hated xbox lol.