Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: - NintendoFan - on November 13, 2003, 02:26:10 PM
Title: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: - NintendoFan - on November 13, 2003, 02:26:10 PM
Could this mean a possible cartridge comeback?
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/8447
When this gets out the door, if it ever really does, it could be in N6 if Nintendo decides to use it. Which, if it is everything that it states it could very well be.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 13, 2003, 02:42:03 PM
Nintendo was basically forced into using optical media, so I can almost guarantee that if they can use this media, they will...
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on November 13, 2003, 03:29:09 PM
There is one problem with cartridge, it cannot hold as much data...and with games these days, you need a lot of room for data.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 13, 2003, 03:37:12 PM
You didn't read the article, did you?...
This new media could render optical media obsolete...I do doubt it could happen so soon, but it's something to look at...
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: TOY on November 13, 2003, 07:21:39 PM
Nice find,
I agree with Bill, Nintendo would love this. Im sure someone would figure out how to pirate it but it wouldnt be as simple as copying a cd. The big question will be price.
TOY
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Gibdo Master on November 13, 2003, 08:48:55 PM
Quote Originally posted by: Nintendo Gamecube There is one problem with cartridge, it cannot hold as much data...and with games these days, you need a lot of room for data.
Always nice to meet someone so intelligent that they don't need to read anything in a topic before making a post. Especially when they are trying to make everyone else look stupid.
Anyway I've actually been saying it won't be long before solid state media makes a come back for a while but I usually get closed minded replies like the above. This is why I think it would be dumb of Nintendo to use disks with the next Game Boy when a better solid state alternative is probably right around the corner.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: vudu on November 14, 2003, 04:14:43 AM
did anyone check out the posts below the main article? some are pretty dumb. here's my personal favorite:
Quote No, Thanks not for me. CD is a lot more compatible with cd player in my cars and home and my 3 dvd players. Also i dont like this stupid thing. DVD holds more data than 1GB. Thats what i have to say. Don't use it.
gee, a cd is more compatable with a cd player? who'd a thunk it?
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 14, 2003, 05:12:40 AM
He makes it seem like it is already in use...
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 14, 2003, 09:23:02 AM
I love Cartridges... I was royally ticked when when CDs became the norm. If carts come back, I'll be a happy man. Yup, I'll be giddy like a school man(huh?).
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 14, 2003, 09:25:25 AM
EDIT: Whoops, I accidentally hit the reply button in that little "Quick Reply" box
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2003, 09:48:30 AM
If this truly replaced optical media then not only would Nintendo go back to cartridges but Sony and Microsoft would use them as well. If they replace optical media then almost nothing would use discs let alone consoles.
Though I think a fingertip-sized paper-thin chip is just begging to be lost. I don't want my movies, games and albums being lost in the couch cushions. There's realistically no reason for any usuable media to be that small. At that point it becomes inconvenient.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: vudu on November 14, 2003, 10:57:41 AM
i seriously doubt the you'd need a tweezers to change your games. the chips would (most likely) be in larger casing. have you ever opened up a n64 cartridge? they could have cut down on the size of the cartridges by a lot, if they had wanted to. the chips themselves were pretty small, but they made the cartridges bigger to make them more durable/easier to keep track of/etc.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on November 14, 2003, 11:32:29 AM
I apologize for my post above, I didn't go to lnk because it was clickable. My bad.
But I'd love cartridges, just tell me the price isn't going to crank up...
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: manunited4eva22 on November 14, 2003, 12:11:56 PM
I am guessing this is referring to carbon nanotubes. Doesn't really say, but they will see the light of day probablly 2009 or so, thats the earliest anyway. Probablly will take a while to trickle into PCs, but it should be adopted by high end servers, and the like within a year.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: - NintendoFan - on November 14, 2003, 12:13:05 PM
Well, what I was thinking is that if they can hold 1 GB of data at the size of 1cm then if they made them lets say 5 - 10 cm then it could easily hold as much as a DVD.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: BigJim on November 14, 2003, 12:31:47 PM
"Easily" being the debatable, as each slice of silicon will add to the production cost. Easy to do, yes, not easy to absorb the cost.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: manunited4eva22 on November 14, 2003, 04:25:38 PM
If this is carbon nanotube as I believe it is, try making that about 800GB on a 2.5CM squared wafer.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 14, 2003, 06:53:57 PM
Any idea of the mass production costs as compared to DVDs, ManUnited? All of this is news to me.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: manunited4eva22 on November 16, 2003, 12:07:05 PM
This will cost more than a DVD in production cost, but when it is released it should be at a point where it will represent several optical medium discs, and probablly will cost about 5 dollars per chip, depending on how it is manufactured. I suspect that it will also have much smaller capacties that could cost just under 85 cents, or about the price of an optical disc with the same relative storage. Difference being much much smaller.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 17, 2003, 06:26:21 PM
It has often been said that Nintendo always had the right idea with cartridges, as they are better than CDs in every way, but they were way too far before their time. I am sure that Nintendo wants to get back to carts as much as myself and Koopa Troopa do, but there's just no practical way of doing it while keeping costs down right now.
But with technologies such as that, and the ability to print data on plain paper becoming more and more pronounced, optical media is bound to go the way of the cassette tape and the vinyl record within the next decade.
Personally though, I would trade it all for a good OLED monitor in the near future.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 18, 2003, 10:04:12 AM
Quote It has often been said that Nintendo always had the right idea with cartridges, as they are better than CDs in every way, but they were way too far before their time. I am sure that Nintendo wants to get back to carts as much as myself and Koopa Troopa do, but there's just no practical way of doing it while keeping costs down right now.
Yeah, it would be too expensive right now. I'm hoping that more advances are made in the next couple years that'll make cartridges an option again, atleast for game consoles. Obviously Sony/Microsoft can't do it, not if they want to do the whole "Home Entertainment System" thing, but if it somehow became cost effective, I think Nintendo could do it because they aren't tethered by the need to be compatible with someones DVD collection.
I'm dreaming, I know, but I can't help it
Quote But with technologies such as that, and the ability to print data on plain paper becoming more and more pronounced, optical media is bound to go the way of the cassette tape and the vinyl record within the next decade.
Excellent point... speaking of paper, I found this http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/e-ink.htm(Electronic Ink) awhile ago when I was searching for information about LCDs(its amazing what some of the things we use everyday are actually made of). I think E-Ink is just really awesome, trust me it is a good read. If I remember correctly it consumes roughly eighty times less power than LCDs, and only needs to be updated when something changes(i.e. in games, if the game is paused there wouldn't be any need to update, thereby saving power). It isn't fast enough for gaming yet(it is for video though; sorry I don't have a link to it anymore), but if it were fast enough it might be a really good option for the next GameBoy. These screens are supposed to be four times brighter than an LCD, so lighting would be easier I think. I don't know how this compares to OLEDs(in efficiency/cost), I'm still trying to find more information on both.
(I am now a frequent visitor of "howstuffworks.com")
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: kennyb27 on November 18, 2003, 12:29:26 PM
I found howstuffworks.com last year during my Physics class. It's a great website and relatively easy to understand and read.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 19, 2003, 06:38:58 AM
Yeah, it is a very good site. I like to go there first thing whenever I'm learning something new, the explanations are all really friendly (as opposed to most text-books), so it is a really nice way to get the ball rolling.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: ThePerm on November 20, 2003, 05:40:13 PM
also this type of chip will help other technologies besides cartriges...the future of technology is so amazine it makes me wonder what life will be like when im 30(hopefully....who knows anything bout their thread of fate?)...Jetsons?
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Crono on December 01, 2003, 06:10:20 PM
this might just be me. but i like optical media more. i dont know theres not really any reason i like optical better. the media is not what makes me buy a system its the games that are on the system. but i think nintendo should stick with optical unles the other consoles go to cartrige and have the gameboy advance use a more advanced cart on the next gameboy because if they dont it wont be able to compete with the psp in graphics wise but the system with the best graphics doesnt always win.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 01, 2003, 06:21:18 PM
Nintendo isn't a follower...but a leader...If anyone heads to cartridge-base first, it will be Ninty...
I would much rather have cartridge-based media, because it's much more durable, a must in my house
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Shift Key on December 01, 2003, 08:48:51 PM
The main problem with the N64 cartridges was their size, definitely. Not size as in memory capacity, but their shape. These cubes could be integrated into a form of flash card like they have with Memory Sticks and SD memory, so the size problem can be forgotten.
Optical media's main flaw is the accessability of the media - mainly the delays that occur when changing between sections of disc. Sadly it's quite obvious when dual-layer DVDs change layers during a movie.
As for people saying that optical media would remain forever, they are stupid. CDs superseded casettes which superseded vinyl, and DVD superseded video casettes. Something will replace optical media, its just that people are too ignorant to look into the past and notice.
I can see it influencing the gaming industry, but while Sony and MS push DVD as their media of choice for their consoles, I don't expect it to be widespread in the future. The RIAA may be interested in this though...
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: soracloudtidus on December 02, 2003, 03:37:56 AM
Ofcourse optical media will be replaced some time in the near future, the question is when? And will it be replaced in the next generation of systems? Remember Nintendo has labs working on stuff like this, and I'm sure the thought of going back to cartridge has passed their minds. Will they go back? only time will tell. Now if they go back to cartridge they have to do some heavy marketing telling people why are they back on this media and why is better than optical media. If this media is way better than optical media then it is only logic to use it, but I can hear the little fanboys complaining about how Nintendo goes back to catridge and the optical media is way better. If we see Nintendo back on cartridge I wouldn't be surprise since they like to be innovators and different from the other companies.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: ExtremeGcube on December 02, 2003, 02:19:21 PM
We had a nobel prize winner named Alan Mcdearmid(not sure on the sp) come to my campus and give a lecture on his work with semi-conducting polymers. He said that with it, it is possible to create more disposable products as well as the whole advanced shopping checkout where everything is in the cart and all of the items have a plastic chip with this technology in it with a transmitter(they had a shelf life of 6 months) you walked through a gate and it rung everything up. He also mentioned creating a grid using a normal printer and transparency's. The polymer stuck to the ink so you printed the grid you wanted on the transparency, sprayed it with the polymer and then pressed another transparency onto it. the ink is removed after the polymer is dry with a chmical and you get that electrical grid. He was very adament on the disposability and shelf life on these items though. Because one is moving into organic natured substances it may introduce a faster degeneration then other non-organic substances. I am sure many will think this post is off topic but I hope you found it interesting and maybe look up the name and the work to learn more about it.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: ThePerm on December 02, 2003, 03:08:48 PM
im sure this will have an effect on everythign if it works out really well...for instance graphic chips could have alot more programable shaders. Also if you could have tons of storage what are things that all games have? They all have chunks of code....imagine if their were huge chunks of code a game could tap into built into the system that could take advantage of this...also? Do you know how much data we store in our minds? Its crazy!
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: KDR_11k on December 03, 2003, 03:44:19 AM
EGC: That sounds like RFID...
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: rogue_gamecube on December 05, 2003, 10:25:53 PM
Hmm, five years eh? Damnit... Well, there goes my Mac G5 purchase. I just hope my three year old beast can hold on another 5+ years for this. Oh, and I do think the age of the Jetsons is coming. Faster than you may think. Anti-gravity is right around the corner, 64-bit processors are out and in 5+ years this new data storage will revolutionize everything. And, think about it: Identity chips that gets planted in your skin. No more credit cards, simply keep on walking. Hmm, any ideas on how I can keep my P866 going for 5+ years? I think I better drop a grand for a 2ghz something. Damnit...
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on December 09, 2003, 02:46:51 AM
I kind of see this being used more in the realm of embedded memory chips and cartridges/rom memory cards at least for the forseeable future only because of the popularity of DVD and CD's. People will be oppose switching over when much of their information is located on optiacl media.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Majexto on December 11, 2003, 04:15:08 PM
That is really cool, if only they could figure out some way to make it rewritable in a sense, it could bring a whole new world to miniature handheld computers. A palm pilot sized fill fledged pc. That would be cool. The only problem i see with this is cost. Too bad the article didnt say how much the technology cost. Its pretty cool, the only thing id hate about it is i leave disks laying around alot and if i layed one of these around i sure wouldnt be finding it.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: manunited4eva22 on December 11, 2003, 04:33:15 PM
No offense or anything but 64 bit has been around for over a decade. If anything the next revolution is AMP (asymmetric multiprocessing) incorporating many many CPUs, along with cell type SMP, as they are far more powerful in design than 64 bit alone.
Will this technology have profound effects on the computer industry, yes. Will it be the most important in the next decade, no, computers will definately begin to change shape in other ways in the next decade.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Lamech on July 06, 2004, 05:46:18 AM
People complain about theyre CD players and DVD players being obsolete, but theres two reasons why cartridges arent going to make you lose your precious things. Think about it, we are just now starting to phase out floppy disks and casettes... that took awhile.. nothing is instant. Youll still have CD stuff coming out and watching your back until you upgrade... which in todays technological world, you will. Your DVD player has a shelf life of about 5 - 8 years, just dont buy new ones all the time. We seem to be in the "disposable" era. Everything we make, we make to last a little bit, then throw it away and buy a new one because its cheaper than fixing it and its upgrading. Thats how every new media comes in. So don't fret. You'll find you love cartridges more. Durable and long lasting... no more cracked or scratched CD's sound good to you?
PS: Speaking about technology having a short life-span... I figure its only fair to warn you guys that those awesome Plasma TVs are being found in recent lab tests to have a life of about 5 years in the average home... if you smoke or anything like that.. 2-3 years... ouch. Spending thousands of dollars for somthing that dies that quickly doesnt seem worth it to me. Thought I'd warn you before you spend all your money ^_^
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 06, 2004, 10:23:48 PM
That "disposable era" is also called consumerism. It's the perfect state for companies: You buy things that are theoretically usable infinitely over and over again. Think PS2 failure rate. Normally you would buy the console only once and that's it, but with that failure rate you have to buy it over and over again, each time producing a lot of waste that hurts the envronment even further... Capitalism is self destruction.
Title: RE:Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: Pikkcuber on July 11, 2004, 05:51:52 PM
I seriously hope we go back to anything other than a Disk. Do you know how much it sucks buying a 50 dollar game and then lose it a week or two later because you dropped it or accidently scratched it on the case. And the whole cleaning thing is a pain. I will go and say it now not many people will agree with me but im gonna say it, I would sacrifice graphical quality to go back on a cartridge. And even pay a couple bucks more if i have to. Wasnt it nice to pick up a snes game out of the console put it down right on the table next to your food, drink, little brothers..... and not worry at all. Then you have to buy a case for those mini cd's unless you want to haul around a ton of game boxes around. Boy will i be glad when cartridges come back.
Title: RE: Cartridge Comeback?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 11, 2004, 11:40:15 PM
Pay more for games? You must be american, the rest of the world pays the equivalent of 70 US dollars for a disk game (compared to 50 for PC games...)
