Post by: rpglover on November 13, 2003, 03:43:03 AM
it has the first images of the game shown there- looks kinda wierd to me- and those main characters do look familiar
but i do not know the validity of these shots- they could be real, but who knows
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 13, 2003, 03:48:46 AM
I can't tell if that's an updated Yuna and Rikku, or new characters in which Square put in no effort in character design...If they ARE an updated Yuna and Rikku, I officially hate Square...
Post by: rpglover on November 13, 2003, 03:53:48 AM
i have very high expectations for this game even so- Yasumi Matsuno is under the game, and the games he has made (final fantasy tactics, vagrant story) are very good games- i will save more judgement when the story is provided and detales of the battle system are out- i hope it is a good game
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 13, 2003, 03:58:34 AM
If this truely is a "prequel," why doesn't Square just call it FFX-0?
Only Square would take their worst game and make a spinoff(s) off it...
Post by: Pale on November 13, 2003, 04:07:36 AM
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 13, 2003, 07:21:40 AM
I was looking for FFIX type character design, with some kick butt FFT battling. I know it is still premature to be dissapointed, but I can't help it.::weeps::
Post by: seven_chaos on November 13, 2003, 08:54:27 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 13, 2003, 09:27:14 AM
Post by: seven_chaos on November 13, 2003, 02:12:50 PM
Post by: rpglover on November 13, 2003, 04:03:24 PM
yeah that is important to me also- the characters in vagrant story were very well designed- that was actually what got me into that game for the first time- i loved the look of the characters and the art style- and once i started playing it, vagrant story became one of my favorite rpgs of all time- the story was great and the battle system is great too
another example is valkyrie profile- its art brought me to the game (that and the fact it was made by tri-ace) and once i got into that game, i found one of the best battle systems ever and great story and music
seeing the character design to FFXII is a little odd- but i will reserve more judgement until later- i would like to see story and battle system detales- i personally hope it turns out good as i love Matsuno's work
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 13, 2003, 06:48:52 PM
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FFT battling would only be found in FFT.
If Square can make FFXI an MMORPG, then I think a Tactics battle system is more than plausible.
Quote
In one of the pictures off of www.the-magicbox.com, the one of Van, there is a creature to the right of him. Looks just like one of the races from Tactics Advance.
Yeah, I also saw that. It was my least favorite race in FFTA; another strike for FFXII
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 13, 2003, 07:46:46 PM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on November 14, 2003, 01:41:07 AM
Arent you the same people that freaked out when people complained about the Zelda design?
Didnt you say its all about gameplay, the look doesnt matter?
Hmmmmm
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 14, 2003, 02:04:44 AM
Quote*sadly nods head*
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
I am officially dissapointed
And as I said before, character design is key to my buying an RPG...For me, the game won't be fun if I don't care about the characters...I want some creative character design, not Yuna-lookalike...
Post by: Deguello on November 14, 2003, 03:18:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
all you people bitching about the character design.
Arent you the same people that freaked out when people complained about the Zelda design?
Didnt you say its all about gameplay, the look doesnt matter?
Hmmmmm
You are probably not going to like my answer. Lotsa people who do like RPGs usually don't like me because I point out a disturbing truth. The reason character design is important to RPGs and RPGs ALONE is that besides that and music and story, there really is not much IN an RPG gameplay wise. The reason any ridicule of Zelda's Cel-shaded look is absurd is because it doesn't matter much what Link looks like. In the first games he was a grubby bunch of pixels, and the art for it was... exactly the way he looks in Wind Waker (albiet with some auburn hair). It was the GAME that was cool in Zelda, and it's still cool now, even with the annoyingly long ship travels (nobody seemed to complain about Driving long Distances in GTA or True Crime </rant>)
However in RPGs since the GAME element is somewhat lacking (excluding of course, One like Paper Mario, Tales of Symphonia, and Secret of Mana because SHOCK HORROR you might actually have to press a few buttons in anger and desperation) the production value associated with it is totally placed upon Character design and story telling. The ones here look like alternate designs for those two in FF Ten. Ever noticed that chick from FF8 seems to be the basis for every FF heroine ever? It's interesting, because FFXII is supposed to have a lot of funding and be the game they concentrate most on, yet the art for it looks horribly bland, and the character designs in FF:CC look a lot better and that's a game they didn't really have to put any effort into.
Agree if you want to, Disagree if you wish, Flame if you must, but it is just the opinion of somebody who has played a shitload of RPGs and generally got tired of them.
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 14, 2003, 05:05:00 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on November 14, 2003, 05:37:33 AM
but a lot of NIN games do the same thing, I am sure Mario Kart DD will be a dolled up rehash of MK64, yet it will still be fun I would think.
I just dont understand the double standard many here apply. If NIN does it, its perfectly fine, but for anyone else it is pure crap.
Deguello, I understand what you are saying, but in reality, the appearance of ANY game can affect ones enjoyment of it.
I personally dont like animated shows (the simpsons, king of the hill and south parks being the only exceptions), I dont know why, but cartoons just dont do it for me, I just cant seem to like them, even as a kid I didnt like them. The same for games, I love the appearance of MP and ED, but I cant stand the look of WW., and yes it does affect my wantingness to play the game.
Just my opinion.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 14, 2003, 07:47:41 AM
You do have a semi-valid argument here. I guess my feelings are close to those of Grey Ninja. WW was laying new ground work, and therefore deserved the benefit of the doubt. FFX is a different animal, I didn't like it when I saw it, but I gave it a chance(Yup, I loyally purchased it, just as I did all its predecessors), turns out is wasn't much fun to play either. And now it seems as though Square is going to be sticking to the FFX formulae! It is quite a let down, and since they're not changing anything they're not eligible for the same benefit WW was. I gave FFX the benefit despite its depressing resemblance to FFVIII, but I won't be doing the same thing a second or third time around.
No one here is saying, "FFXII suxors!!!1", but we're not impressed yet.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on November 14, 2003, 07:59:18 AM
understood, that is the same reason I wont buy a ww2 with cell shaded graphics. Good point.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 14, 2003, 08:20:46 AM
Actually, re-reading that, it didn't come across the way I meant... I'm not ruling out X-2 or XII because of their graphics. As it stands, I've judged them on their similarity to FFX. Right now I assume FFXII will be in the same vein as FFX, and that is why I'm disappointed. My final judgement will not be based on something as superficial as graphics. What I was trying to say, and you obviously misinterpreted it, is that I'm not going to assume, or hope that FFXII is going to be fun, how can I when it so closely resembles a game I hate? A game I hate NOT because of its graphics, but because it is boring in just about every facet. However, just as in the past, I will still give each game a fair chance to change my mind. Post by: thecubedcanuck on November 14, 2003, 08:55:38 AM
Another reason for what I said as well.
I did understand what you said for the most part. I should have been more clear myself as it was not the Zelda graphics that turned me off as much as it was the whole visual style of which the graphics played a signifigant part.
Post by: Deguello on November 14, 2003, 11:58:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
Deguello, I understand what you are saying, but in reality, the appearance of ANY game can affect ones enjoyment of it.
I personally dont like animated shows (the simpsons, king of the hill and south parks being the only exceptions), I dont know why, but cartoons just dont do it for me, I just cant seem to like them, even as a kid I didnt like them. The same for games, I love the appearance of MP and ED, but I cant stand the look of WW., and yes it does affect my wantingness to play the game.
Just my opinion.
I am not one to say graphics are immaterial, however, being convinced not to enjoy a game based upon graphics is a bit superficial. By that I mean, REALLY superficial. If Wind Waker's graphics were hellishly bad, like GTA 3 looking with framerate hanging around 20 fps, you might be a little justified, but Wind Wakers gfx are gorgeous, whether you like them or not. If is as if you went into an art gallery, looked at George Seurat's "A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte" and said, "I cannot stand this painting. It is bad," while the painter himself and a mass of art aficianadoes, regular joes, and other esteemed painters in the same field stare at you with a quizzical look, becuase you revealed more about yourself than you did about Seurat's ability as an artist.
And besides, there's a game there too. And the game looks a lot like The art drawn for the previous Zelda's, meaning, more or less, it always looked like that.
Post by: Oldskool on November 14, 2003, 12:35:53 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 14, 2003, 11:26:44 PM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on November 15, 2003, 02:30:26 AM
I think the example you are trying to use is way off base, you are comparing apples and oranges here, hell you are comparing apples and steam boats. My beef with WW is many things. When I say graphics, I mean more than just the look, I mean the way the look is presented. WW is presented to me like a true animated cartoon, and yes, I cant stand that look. I said it earlier, and was quite clear that cartoons in general have never appealed to me, even as a child. To say they are gorgeous is a matter of opinion and taste, art, food and women can be both ugly or beautiful depending on whos eyes you look at them through. The game itself I found over sipmlified and boring, I honestly for the life dont understand what anyone sees in it, but again, that is their perogitive. As for framerate, it doesnt bother me as much as presentation, I would prefer a solid 60FPS but I can live with a few slowdowns (as long as they are not as bad as True Crime). I loved the atmosphere in MP, the grahics and atmosphere appealed to me, same for ED.
Back to the painting you mention. Again art is one of the most subjective subjects you will ever come accross. What is wrong with someone not liking it even though everyone else does? It just may not suit their eye, they may just not like it. Picasso is an estemed artist, cherished even by some, I think his work is crap. To judge someone based on what they like or dislike in Art, Video or women reveals more about your character then theirs. If we all like the same things we wouldnt need opinions would we?
Post by: GoldShadow1 on November 15, 2003, 06:12:00 AM
Post by: Deguello on November 15, 2003, 10:35:20 PM
And I never made a judgement on you. You revealed yourself to be Superficial. Look it up.
The last person I ever heard say anything was "all subjective" was in my English 1102 class at West Georgia. He had a 22 in the class and wrote like somebody had taped a crayon to a monkey's tail.
Comparing the art styles of Zelda and FF games is comparing apples and oranges. Zelda does not have to rely on character design, for there are other facets to the game. FF does, because other than art styles and character design, there is nothing but a long and pointless turn-based battle engine and overly simplistic text.
Now, I say we get this thread back on Topic, before it skewed into a round of tired old complaints.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on November 16, 2003, 06:03:20 AM
Comparing games and fine art is ludicrous. I really dont see what is so revolutionary about Zelda anyway, in fact I have not seen very many people other than you calling it revolutionary.
To say that certain works of art, games, ect are simply great and that it is not open to opinion is laughable just as well. That is nothing more than an old art school philosophy used to justify ones like for a certain subject.
you like it fine, I dont, you think its great, I dont.
simple as that, you want to put more into it, be my guest.
Post by: Ymeegod on November 16, 2003, 06:33:53 AM
LOL--that's one steaming pile of crud. If Zelda doesn't rely on looks than explain that do it's drop in sales? Face it, cel-shading link looked like a freaking south park character and is what hindered alot of people from purchasing it. And I guess you haven't played much FF if you call it overly simplistic compared to zelda :0. Zelda's whole combat strategy relies on finding a partern to defeat the enemy which is basically the same as it was back in the 80's.
I really don't see the big deal bashing the look of the new characters, some are calling it rehashed since it looks alot like FFX's main character but why would that effect the game? Since there's little to go on I wouldn't base my judgement of a game on a few little screenshots, if I did that then I would have passed VJ or even the upcoming MKDD.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 16, 2003, 07:26:45 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 16, 2003, 09:00:06 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 16, 2003, 09:04:41 AM
I wouldn't say Nintendo focuses on gameplay alone, but rather primarily. Lately they've had some pretty gorgeous games as well.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on November 16, 2003, 09:19:03 AM
Post by: Deguello on November 16, 2003, 10:10:04 PM
Ok I'm gonna give you your first and only warning here. That is an ignorant comment, with a pathetic stab at the end of it. I guess I better call all those artists, graphic designers, and animators across the world working for various entertainment and advertising firms and those others that pursue their calling to be artists that thecubedcanuck doesn't think their vocation is actually work. And since you also stated that you are not an arts major, there is no way you could know if it is work or not.
This is gettng tiresome. Canuck I DARE you to reply in this thread again with another ignorant insult, or another essay on why you don't understand Zelda and Final Fantasy are unrelated. See what happens.
Ymeegod- "And I guess you haven't played much FF if you call it overly simplistic compared to zelda :0"
I have played a shitload of RPGs. Other than the ones that require buttons pushed in anger and desperation, all of them are overly simple. Level up, beat guys in turn-based fight, win game. It's not hard, just time-consuming.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on November 17, 2003, 01:50:39 AM
That was a reply to this comment you made, is it not an ignorant comment as well, was is not intended to compare me to this person, it is a jab from beginning to end.
"The last person I ever heard say anything was "all subjective" was in my English 1102 class at West Georgia. He had a 22 in the class and wrote like somebody had taped a crayon to a monkey's tail."
I apologize is it got a little personal, but I was talking about a game, and you decided to judge my character based on my OPINIONS of a game.
You think Zelda is great, that is fine, but dont push it down my throat by saying it is great and that is the end all be all to it.
"This is gettng tiresome. Canuck I DARE you to reply in this thread again with another ignorant insult, or another essay on why you don't understand Zelda and Final Fantasy are unrelated. "
IS this not a little extreme? Why is threatening me nessasary to prove your point? I do think the 2 are very much related, many websites consider Zelda to be an RPG so why does this have to bother you so much? I was simply disscussing my views untill you decided to make referances to my character based on my views of a game you like and I dont.
Again, I apologize for the jab, I agree it was pointless, but as for the opinions I expressed about the games, I still think they are perfectly justified.
Anyway, I am done with subject., and will let it go.
Post by: Deguello on November 17, 2003, 06:18:23 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 17, 2003, 07:59:08 AM
Post by: rpglover on November 17, 2003, 11:21:57 AM
"In an interview with the Final Fantasy XII developer Yasumi Matsuno, a few new tidbits are revealed about the game:
The game will be in 2 DVDs
Very little love elements in the game
The game style resembles Vagrant Story
Huge world map
Many people will be surprised: "Is this Final Fantasy?"
Tight controls"
this is making me a little more optimistic now- resembling Vagrant Story is always a good thing- lets hope the game turns out good- and i am intrigued by the "is this final fantasy" comment- i would think it obviously refers to the game's battle system- but we shall see
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 17, 2003, 12:37:40 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 17, 2003, 04:27:00 PM
I found out about that this morning, but I only had the chance to post now. Yeah, I am much more happy about this now. I guess from that it can be inferred that this isn't another FFX rehash anyways.
Post by: rpglover on November 18, 2003, 12:24:05 PM
hey i'm there for you guys!
"I've never played Vagrant Story, but the rest of it sounded promising, well, except for the two DVD part that doesn't make me happy. Hopefully the character design will change a little."
i would highly suggest playing vagrant story koopa- it is one of the best rpgs the playstation has to offer
the battle system is highly customizable and has a lot of strategy with it- it is a little slow at first, but once you get the hang of it, it becomes very fun- and the story of vagrant story warrents a playthrough just to experience it
i will say though that i would like to see how they incorporate multiple characters into the game (i.e. the battle system) and how large the game will truely be- information is supposed to come out tommorow so stay tuned
Post by: rpglover on November 18, 2003, 12:39:57 PM
i just thought about it for a minute and thought about how the game could be 2 dvds and i have come to a rational conclusion:
the game could be split between the 2 main characters- one disk would be for the guy (vahn i think) and the other for the girl (ashley i think) this would make perfect sence for the vagrant story thing to work out since the battle system in vagrant story only involves 1 player character- the only other game that i can remember with 2 dvds is devil may cry 2- and that game is split up into dante's game and lucia's game on seperate disks- but unlike that game i would suspect that the stories and gameplay enviornments on the 2 disks would be different, but overlaping- so you could see 2 sides of the story- who knows if this is true- we shall see come tomorrow
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 18, 2003, 01:14:11 PM
*crosses fingers for a change*
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 18, 2003, 03:05:24 PM
Quote
i would highly suggest playing vagrant story koopa- it is one of the best rpgs the playstation has to offer
the battle system is highly customizable and has a lot of strategy with it- it is a little slow at first, but once you get the hang of it, it becomes very fun- and the story of vagrant story warrents a playthrough just to experience it
I'll definitely take your advice. Especially since I just found out my family owns the game O_O ...Apparently one of my brothers bought it two years ago (good thing I mentioned the game before I went and bought it on Amazon
).Quote
i just thought about it for a minute and thought about how the game could be 2 dvds and i have come to a rational conclusion:
the game could be split between the 2 main characters- one disk would be for the guy (vahn i think) and the other for the girl (ashley i think) this would make perfect sence for the vagrant story thing to work out since the battle system in vagrant story only involves 1 player character- the only other game that i can remember with 2 dvds is devil may cry 2- and that game is split up into dante's game and lucia's game on seperate disks- but unlike that game i would suspect that the stories and gameplay enviornments on the 2 disks would be different, but overlaping- so you could see 2 sides of the story- who knows if this is true- we shall see come tomorrow
That is a good point. I automatically assumed it meant FMV out the wazoo, but your idea seems more logical.
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 18, 2003, 03:12:12 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 18, 2003, 04:39:57 PM
Post by: rpglover on November 18, 2003, 05:29:07 PM
(need i say more)"Isn't Vagrant Story a dungeon crawler? I love dungeon crawlers, and I've been trying to get my hands on a copy of Vagrant Story for a long time. o_O"
i guess you could classify it as a dungeon crawler- but it has such a deep and wonderful story (most dungeon crawlers do not)- mouse, i think that vagrant story is becoming one of those ps1 greatest hits soon- it will be rereleased in december if i heard correctly, so keep your eye out for it- it should only be about 15 bucks then (but its worth way more
)
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 18, 2003, 05:30:24 PM
I also need to pick up Xenogears, especially since it comes so highly reccomended from Grey Ninja.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 18, 2003, 07:51:37 PM
http://www.1up.com/article2/0,4364,1388764,00.asp
Apparently the game takes place in Ivalice (hence the Bangaa we saw).
There are some new screenshots as well, specifically ones that look like they could be alternate character designs (you can't miss 'em). I find them more appealing than the first two we saw, though, why the girl is picking her nose is beyond me
The in game battle shots appear to be bigger than the ones posted before, at first glance it appears to be standard FF battling
Quote
Just wanna back up rpglover on everything he said (as usual. I still suspect he might be my other personality, although his power of insight does seem stronger than my own.). But yeah, Vagrant Story is REALLY good, and is one of the 4 games to ever get perfect scores in Famitsu.
Well, I'm sold (and then some). I'll start playing as soon as my brother gets it back from his friend.
BTW, I'm curious, what are the other three titles with perfect scores? I seem to remember it bein mentioned before... was OoT one of them? (it must be...)
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 19, 2003, 02:29:51 AM
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 19, 2003, 09:22:00 AM
There still isn't much about the battle system, though the reporter does speculate on what is might be like. Anyway, there is a lot of stuff to read, and it is quite interesting.
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I beleive the other games were Ocarina of Time, Soul Calibur, and Wind Waker.
Wow! Go Zelda!
Post by: Caliban on November 19, 2003, 09:52:53 AM
Post by: rpglover on November 19, 2003, 12:10:39 PM
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 19, 2003, 12:22:39 PM
(The music sounds alot like FFT, the PSOne FFT)Quote
i like the comments made about the story and the one that says something to the effect of "this will not be an interactive movie" (i.e. FFX)
Yeah, that really made my heart soar. ::cough:: I mean, I'm tough MAN with no emotions!
Quote
i just want to see more on the battle system though- i would love to see how it all plays out and if they made some good changes to it-
Ditto. Right now I'm hoping it is in something of a pre-alpha stage, and nothing has been cemented yet. Although according to that report the game is 70% finished (atleast rumored to be)
Post by: rpglover on November 19, 2003, 12:42:50 PM
the game looks good and the music is very well done- the trailer also had some snippits of the battle system in it
from what i saw i would say that the system is not going to be like the traditional final fantasy mode- in one clip you see vahn come at an enemy and slash at it multiple times- and each time it pulled up different things such as the hit points lost or even the enemy blocking your attack- but i also saw clips of multiple characters fighting as well- and in that same clip vahn and some other character in his party are fighting at the same time- i am only stating what i saw-i would suggest everyone to watch it too- i would like to see what some others think about the battle system
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 19, 2003, 03:25:32 PM
EDIT: This artwork is just horrible. For the last goddamn time! I don't want to play through a Final Fantasy game as a $5 hooker. Christ!
Post by: rpglover on November 19, 2003, 04:21:15 PM
agreed- but i hope the story and battle system overshadow the art- i have a lot of faith in matsuno....
Post by: rpglover on November 20, 2003, 02:32:59 PM
"Q: There is an image where Vaan's status bar is showing off, despite being a field screen.
Yoshida: I wonder if we created any battle fields this time? [laughs] "
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 20, 2003, 09:23:16 PM
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"We began FFXII development using the same polygon and texture count as Final Fantasy X, but we couldn't create the system we wanted with that. We had to try and create the same look but with only half as many polygons."
Well, I guess that explains why the lead females clothing is even more absent than FF-XXX2 or whatever.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 21, 2003, 07:18:57 AM
Quote
Well, I guess that explains why the lead females clothing is even more absent than FF-XXX2 or whatever.
LoL - "Good grief, girl! Put your polygons back on!"
Seriously, though, I hope they clothe her a little better before the game releases... I'd also like to hope the boy would get a real shirt; I mean, they should be wearing some kind of protective armour or something anyway, atleast give them whole pieces of clothing. That Silver hairded villainess looks pretty cool, though. If they wanted to make me think "is this FF?", they'd let us play as the cool character for a change.
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 21, 2003, 06:40:14 PM
