Post by: Mario on October 02, 2003, 04:41:28 AM
!!!!!Ever since the price drop, sales of the Gamecube have QUADRUPLED in the US! HOLY CRAP!
Post by: KDR_11k on October 02, 2003, 08:24:49 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 02, 2003, 11:05:18 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on October 02, 2003, 02:07:48 PM
Post by: Michael8983 on October 02, 2003, 02:30:07 PM
I now completely agree with whatever it is you were attempting to say
Post by: Marcus Arillius on October 02, 2003, 03:12:33 PM
Also, when you say nintendo is shigtendo, i feel like that's very much the case. I feel like nintendo is telling me what i should like instead of actually delivering what i want recently (when i say recently, i mean the entire cube era and the latter part of the n64 days).
Like this LAN connectivity. It's way too expensive for everyone to have gamecubes, and its very hard to even find people and make time for everyone to get together and bring their cubes and hook it up. What a hassle. Besides, who says i want to get together and play games with other people together, face to face? I hate people, therefore I don't want to have to look at them.
Also, they boast about their GBA connectivity to the gamecube like its some innovative and cool and amazing thing. It's a load of crap and basically useless.
Even though I'm not too fond of internet gaming, i find it more fun than hooking my cube up to my gba so i can get hints and maps on the screen. poo on that.
On another note, with the gamecube at 99 dollars, I wonder how low the price of an N64 has dropped to now..... hrmmmm.
Post by: Odin on October 02, 2003, 03:40:53 PM
Nintendo is going to have to make HUGE changes to suceed in the next generation.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 02, 2003, 05:05:24 PM
Post by: kennyb27 on October 02, 2003, 05:07:55 PM
QuoteAs opposed to what? I consider the GameCube to be a HUGE success.
Nintendo is going to have to make HUGE changes to suceed in the next generation.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on October 02, 2003, 05:14:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
the fact is that the price cut is only a banaid on a massive mortal head wound. to start with nintendo has become shigendo. why can't he just stick with mario and stay out of everyone elses biz unless they ask. the things that have hurt nintenod most in the past decade have come from him. N64 cartriges, Nintendo's nothing but Disney lineup (that can only appeal to a narrow audience, where is the variety? Nintendo is apparently going for the noncore but the noncore want to at least be able to save a full season at launch on Madden on their memory card), the Gamecube design, the controllers wacky look and lack of buttons (z button really erks developers as well as lack of analog stick clicking), GBA linking instead of online, Metroid's overtly complicated controls, and Mario Sunshine's less than spectacular sales. Nintendo has changed. They changed into Shig. They need to be Nintendo again and that is the bottom line. What is Nintendo going to do when that sales boom dies just like some of their titles' sales. Fast out of the gate but then reverts to a crawl. No more gimmicks time for a ******* change.
OH NO, NINTENDO'S DOING SOMETHING RIGHT. BETTER BABBLE ON ABOUT HOW I THINK NINTENDO SHOULD ACT SO THAT NOBODY GETS HAPPY ABOUT THE GOOD NEWS. AS NINTENDO FANS, WE SHOULD MAKE IT A PERSONAL GOAL TO NEVER BE SATISFIED WHEN SOMETHING GOES RIGHT. EVERYTHING IS DOOM AND GLOOM. NINTENDO HAVE KIDDY GAMES, PEOPLE ARE BUYING THEM, BUT SINCE I DON'T LIKE THEM, I'LL IGNORE THAT FACT.
CAPS LOCK IS THE BEST KEY ON THE KEYBOARD.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 02, 2003, 05:52:20 PM
PS2 gets a disney title (Kingdom Hearts), and it gets prasie cause it's actually GOOD. Maybe. I've never played it, but the sales speak for themselves.
Why? WHY?
And this quadrupoling of sales is GREAT!
Post by: Mannypon on October 02, 2003, 07:02:04 PM
Shig being the base of nintendo's problems (thats how I interpreted some of the statements put up in this topic)
What? how can anyone even say that, Sony and Microsoft BOTH will pay LOVELY to have a "problem" like shig. Shig IMO is the reason nintendo is what they are today. Nintendo didnt make shig, shig made nintendo. He is the jordan of the video game world and there will never be anyone that'll have as big as impact in the video game industry as him. He created Mario, a national figure trensending beyond video games. One can basically say Mario is the symbol of video games. He created the Zelda series. He has influenced so many developers and has bettered them as a result of his influence in their games. He is involved in so many different games and developements becuase he is aware that he isn't going to be around forever. He wants to be sure that the zelda and mario franchises (along with other game franchises) can still retain that special quality that only he produces long after he is retired. His desicions are what have molded the industry what it is today. He was responcible for properly introducing the world with great 2d gaming (mario 1) along with 3d gaming (with mario 64). His influence in the designs are nothing to look down upon either. Dont quote me on this but nintendo was the first to actually implement showlder buttons (for all its worth lol). They were responsible for first analog stick (for mario 64), rumble feature (starfox 64) and 4 controller ports. Let me cut this short since I think my port has been put forth on this. Anyways, let me leave it at that, I think my point has been put forth.
Metriod and Mario Sunshine
I can only speak for maself in regards to these 2 games. As for metriod, I think it was near perfection. I had not a single problem with the game cept for the simple fact that it eventually had to end. Bringing metriod to the 3rd dimension was not an easy task to tackle but the job was very well done. I have no reason to complain. Mario sunshine having a lack of sales. Mario sunshine was not a bad game. It was a departure from the norm but it was technically just as good as mario 64 (besides a few camera probs in some situations) I think it was just an either love or hate relationship for that game. You either loved it or didnt but no one can sit here and argue that the game was technically flawed. The gameplay was full of depth and for once it was actually challenging (which turned off a few of the softened up and newbie gamers)
Nintendo giving us what they think we want and not what we really want
I think I'll leave nintendo to run their business. Regardless of sales, they are the most successful of the big 3. They've been around the longest (in the video game business) so I think its a safe bet to say they know what they doing. I for one have never had a prob with nintendo's decisions. Their games have very rarely ever disapointed. Nintendo keeps the industry interesting with their strange ways. They are always trying to find that next big thing instead of the usual route taken by the competition. Lan as apposed to online. They both have their benefits but when it comes to pure gameplay, Lan provides a better experience. Internet enables downloadable material and whatnot but IMO it doesnt compare to the speed of LAN and actually bein in the atmosphere of so many people competing. Only way I can trully see LAN trully overtaking the internet fad is if nintendo makes their N5 portable like the gamecube and have it come with a flip top lcd screen on top. This will ensure everyone has the portable screen and system in one and its just a matter of having everyone bring their n5s over. That'll get rid of the hassle of havin to find so many tvs to put in one room, all the cable work required and extra things to purchase. This is long enough though, sorry to the heads that are annoyed by its length, just skip it or skim through if you must.
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 02, 2003, 07:11:37 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 02, 2003, 08:00:33 PM
Post by: Koopa Troopa on October 02, 2003, 08:24:31 PM
Quote
*What Manny said*
Ditto... Hell yes.
Post by: Mannypon on October 02, 2003, 08:46:37 PM
Post by: Arbok on October 02, 2003, 09:15:23 PM
I don't see how anyone can see the negative in this, sales are increasing and, hell, alteast for me, some of my friends who were only into the PS2 have picked up a GCN so they can get Resident Evil and, later, Twin Snakes.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 02, 2003, 09:44:36 PM
Post by: rainmanx2 on October 03, 2003, 07:01:51 AM
Post by: ChesterDrawz on October 03, 2003, 07:26:47 AM
If the Cube sells 400k north american units in October then they may have turned the corner, but we won't know that for a couple of months.
Post by: bonestormer on October 03, 2003, 08:30:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kennyb27
As opposed to what? I consider the GameCube to be a HUGE success.
I think you're the only one that thinks that. It's unfair to call it a "failure" (but if you compare it to past Nintendo machines...), but a *huge* success? I don't think so. Only the PS2 has been a *huge* success ouselling GC (and XB) by millions. You could even argue Xbox has been since it's come from nowhere to be a major contender.
And you can no longer just say, "Well they are still profitable!" Since just today Nintendo announced that for the 6 months from April-September they posted their first ever net lose (about 7 billon yen). A first ever net lose for a company doesn't sound like a *huge* success to me. But the good news is this seems to have awoken Nintendo (finally) and change is starting to come (agressive ad campaign. price drop, ect.)
Post by: Cap on October 03, 2003, 10:21:07 AM
according to this, nintendo is going to post a loss for the first half of the year due to poor gamecube sales(and to a strong yen). hopefully sales will remain consitent, and not just die down after the initial rise.
Post by: PIAC on October 03, 2003, 02:54:05 PM
nemo your an idiot, and thats the end of that chapter.
Post by: nemo_83 on October 03, 2003, 03:44:33 PM
In all seriousness I'm very disappointed in Nintendo. That doesn't mean I'm not disapointed in Sony and MS too. Nintendo had a second chance to redeem themselves and this generation has been a waste. MS has been very willing to spend billions on face value while Nintendo has just tried to wing it for one more gen. The only original material I've seen has been Pikmin (failure), and Animal Crossing. LAN is just an excuse to keep NIntendo from footing the bill. Instead we the consumers suffer. We have to buy the excess hardware, find friends with GameCubes (haha I hope the price drop at least helps that out), buy more controllers, buy the game, and have multiple tvs. They tried this with Halo. It didn't work. Why? Cause there is not a snow flakes chance in hell that somebody qualifies for that unless your name is EGM. Online is easy for the consumer, can have voice chat (Nintendo won't include that prob if they ever do online cause they want to censor), the hardware is minimal, most gamers are online already, and it is the kind of philosophy that Nintendo has always preached (simplicity and ease for the consumer equals success). Now they want to hook up with AOL. Why limit yourself to one service provider. There is no way I'm switching to AOL cause their service is the pits. If they use AOL then we have to use AOL to play the games online. Another way the consumer will have to suffer for NIntendo who is growing into minimalism in every philosophy.
If you don't believe Nintendo has screwed up just ask Dennis Dyack and ask him how aggressive the advertising campaign for Eternal Darkness was. That game could have pushed Cube sales and never got a chance. I feel great pitty for Dennis, he has made some great games only to be pushed down like a tac by the thumb of Nintendo. We may never see ED 2 or Too Human. Next Nintendo will make him do a remake of a Nintendo game classic like Kid Iccarus. Didn't they say Silicon Knights is an indepent developer like Rare that can make their own games and not some program wrting company that takes orders like Retro.
Shig hasn't lost it. He is just spread far too thinly. You will all see after this honeymoon is over and you see that it takes more than price to push hardware....PS2 has been far more expensive than Cube for what 2 years now and Cube is still far behind. I don't know if Nintendo really listens to what we want. They only listen to the Japanese these days. We are their long forgotten army left behind like the South Vietnamese during Nam to loose the war. The truth is still evident. If Nintendo continues to ignore what we the Americans want then they will continue to see their sales go through the floor in America. 20 years ago they listened and payed much attention. They redesigned their systems for the American market. Now they seem arogant. I'm tired of NIntendo dodging the facts and going off the edge blind folded by an ego bigger than MS's. Sure MS hasn't put out many good games, okay only one worth buying, but they have tried hard (bought a lot of people) to get this far this fast.
Nintendo reminds me of the WWE (WWF). The WWE has spent the last few years pulling every string imaginable to keep the ratings up. They bought their competitors WCW and ECW. They bought all the top talent from those companies. They hired Hogan, Nash, Hall, Steiner, and Goldberg. All those guys have million dollar contracts and have done nothing for that company. Why cause the company is still taking the same APROACH to delivering its product. They are reluctant to use edgy, fresh, or even inteligent writing. They only focus on wrestlers being the next Rock rather than the wrestlers making names for themselves. They use tired storylines and weak wrestling styles that are dated by today's independent circuit standards. It is not the talent's fault but they get blamed. It reminds me of how Nintendo places blame on everyone in the company for the problems so everything must be like Shig for a success and when it blows up in their faces they act like it didn't. Because they are just as arrogant as Vince MacMahan. Their way is not always the only way. And some of you fanboys (noone inparticular) need to step out of the box you've built and look at things from an objective point of view and not just the one Nintendo feeds you.
My point is despite the "aggressiveness" they have displayed lately they are still the same folks that want you to play conga sims and use water guns instead of using Mario. Recognize it already. They have changed. And they refuse to change back. I hope this net loss kicks them in the teeth and gets their attention that we're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore. No more rehash. I'm not playing through the same star wars game a seventh time dangit. And I'm not buying anymore sequels unless that sequel says this the new ****, Mario 128 the way Mario used to be, fun, for everyone, easy to get into, yet trully difficult, platforming and no more scavenger hunts, and a green clad brother included water guns and vacums not included.
Post by: Yuji Miyamoto on October 03, 2003, 09:02:08 PM
X-Box = huge financial failure, with loses around 3 BILLION so far. it's also been hacked, well hacked.
ps2, a commercial success but in my opinon, a personal failure. poorly built, poor graphics, long load times, and a flood of bad games. plus just about every major franchise they have has been disappointing on the ps2. Mgs2, ff10, socom, the getaway, all disappointments. as fot the DVD player, it's only real function was to give the 10 year olds something to watch "the lion king" on.
gamecube has the lowest cost of production. less than $50 a console. gba sales are through the roof and they are only increasing as we approach the holidays. the same can be said for GC.
To me it's the clear winner. even though it may never beat the numbers posted by sony's p2s. (I'd be willing to bet $ that it will tople the x-box, its already destroyed it in the profits dept, which is what this is all really about. $)
Post by: PIAC on October 03, 2003, 09:25:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PIAC
nemo your an idiot.
and your ignorance is showing.
Post by: Darc Requiem on October 03, 2003, 10:06:01 PM
Darc Requiem
Post by: Kaj'oin on October 04, 2003, 03:57:38 AM
Finally we hear good news but we just see the negatives
can't we just give nintendo are support.
Go, gO nintendo GO!!!
Post by: Fish on October 04, 2003, 04:34:22 AM
IF GC sales indeed quadrupled from August and September weekly avarage of 15,000 to 61,000, then September sales has to have been record low.
GC sold 100,000 in August, which is about 25,000 a week. To make the August-September avarage quadruple, in September GC must have sold only 5,000 a week. Because there is 8 week in that time perioid(august-september), if it sold 25,000 in a week in first month(100,000 in month), in september it has to be 5,000 to get down to to 15,000 avarage(25,000+5,000=30,000/2=15,000)a week, so that is only 20,000 Cubes sold in September!
Other possibility is that they did not quadruple, or more of tripled from 25,000, and that "quadruple" is just a PR trick.
Post by: Marcus Arillius on October 04, 2003, 05:06:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Manny
dam, I never thought I'd see such words in a forum dedicated to nintendo. Let me just throw in my 2 cents on a few topics.
These forums are to discuss what you think about nintendo and other gaming related topics, not to worship the ground nintendo walks on. I don't think I'd be here if that was all you could do was talk nice about nintendo. Although I'm a little bit of a fanboy in nintendo's favor, I still have gripes about things they do.
Quote
Nintendo giving us what they think we want and not what we really want
I think I'll leave nintendo to run their business. Regardless of sales, they are the most successful of the big 3. They've been around the longest (in the video game business) so I think its a safe bet to say they know what they doing. I for one have never had a prob with nintendo's decisions. Their games have very rarely ever disapointed. Nintendo keeps the industry interesting with their strange ways. They are always trying to find that next big thing instead of the usual route taken by the competition. Lan as apposed to online. They both have their benefits but when it comes to pure gameplay, Lan provides a better experience. Internet enables downloadable material and whatnot but IMO it doesnt compare to the speed of LAN and actually bein in the atmosphere of so many people competing. Only way I can trully see LAN trully overtaking the internet fad is if nintendo makes their N5 portable like the gamecube and have it come with a flip top lcd screen on top. This will ensure everyone has the portable screen and system in one and its just a matter of having everyone bring their n5s over. That'll get rid of the hassle of havin to find so many tvs to put in one room, all the cable work required and extra things to purchase. This is long enough though, sorry to the heads that are annoyed by its length, just skip it or skim through if you must.
I'll agree that nintendo is a very successful company, but ninty is definitely not the most succesful of the big 3. Nintendo in the red is proof of that. I don't think internet gaming is a fad. I think its here to stay. You talk about all these things that nintendo would have to do to overtake internet gaming with lan, well, internet gaming is already here and its getting faster and better al the time and thats what the majority of people want. Yet nintendo still hasnt caught on (with the exception of PSO, of course) therefore, proving my OPINION that nintendo isn't worried about what people want, they're worried about giving people what they think they should have. If the mass market wanted LAN than that would be the "fad" today.
Post by: KDR_11k on October 04, 2003, 05:38:04 AM
The loss was caused due to exchange rate changes. Their money is suddently worth about USD380M less (in Yen) without them spending anything. Guess they should have invested into the Euro!
Post by: nemo_83 on October 04, 2003, 01:36:38 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 04, 2003, 02:08:49 PM
Post by: Marcus Arillius on October 04, 2003, 07:17:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nolimit19
although nintendo needs to step it up big time to be the industry leader again. too simply remain competitive, it doesnt need to do that much more then what its already doing. just launch the next console a little more intellgently and get a better diversity of games(some more 3rd party games would be a big benifit). i dont think you can point to nintendo as being any worse off the m$ right now. they are certainly both not in hte best of situations. however if i had to guess which one would be out of the console business first, i would guess m$. nintendo is doing alright, and hopfully it addresses a few issues that hte cube had with their next console. if they just do that, the next nintendo console will do fine and nintendo will survive.
exactly.
however, maybe nintendo isn't worried about being industry leader. I think their philosophy is along as enough people are buying their product to keep them from being in the red (i know, it hasn't been working recently) that they won't be changing tacticts. When they realized they were posting losses, they figured it was most likely from low software sales, which prompted the cube price cut. Nintendo will be around to stay though. Although the gaming market has been around for over 20 years, nintendo, and almost all the companies are still working out the formula for coming out on top, and sony just happened to stumble across it first.
Post by: Mannypon on October 04, 2003, 11:55:16 PM
I understand and I dont have a prob wit people speaking their word but what was said about shig was rediculous IMO.
"internet gaming is already here and its getting faster and better al the time and thats what the majority of people want."
Majority of what people? Everyone can say they want it yet if the sales dont back up that talk then thats what a company is goin to go by. If internet gaming is what the majority of the consumers ( which is the group I guess your assuming to when you say majority) then why havent the ps online aspect been a success and the xbox live kits? Everything is out there for the majority to get what they want yet they arent getting it, I wonder why.
"although nintendo needs to step it up big time to be the industry leader again. too simply remain competitive, it doesnt need to do that much more then what its already doing."
Finally someone who is talkin some sence. Nintendo as a company isnt as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Everyone is sayin how they mad bout rehashes and whatnot yet look at the ps2, what has sony done? Sony has gotten to where it is today more by others work (games and otherwise) they lack originality so they aint really helping the industry evolve. Microsoft is where its at right now by word of mouth more than anything else. Nintendo on the other hand has maintained their position and has gained thier profets from their own work. Almost all company's put out rehashs as you call them. How come no one ever complained when a new mario game came out durin the nes and snes era. They all had the same gameplay with just some alterations and enhancements. I am happy to own mario sunshine, metriod prime , zelda ww, and animal crossing. I"m more then content with what nintendo is givin me so I have no real prob with them at the moment. Basically all I'm sayin is that I know nintendo aint where it wants to be right now but they havent lost any aspect of their talents. They are still the best company in the industry IMO. They rarely ever disapoint and if they do its couse the fanboys always build up their expectations to unreachable levels. Nintendo cant redefine video game genres like they did with mario 64 with every release. Everyone stop all the negativity and just enjoy the good news and enjoy your games.
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 05, 2003, 07:19:16 AM
But I have a story to tell. After the recent pricedrop to $140 here in Canada, I went into Wal-Mart to pick up a Wavebird. I remembered seeing a full shelf full of GameCubes a day or two before. When I saw the shelf that day, it was completely empty except for a single Indigo GameCube in a pretty battered box. You could see a whole lot of software missing off the shelf too.
Post by: Mario on October 05, 2003, 08:30:23 PM
Hardware
1. Gamecube - 6,132
2. Playstation 2 - 3,697
3. Xbox - 1,080
Software
1. PS2 Madden 2004 - 3,891
2. GBA Pokemon Pinball - 2,975
3. GBA Pokemon Ruby - 1,872
4. GBA Pokemon Sapphire - 1,666
5. NGC Soul Calibur II - 1,640
6. GBA Final Fantasy Tactics - 1,586
7. NGC Billy Hatcher - 1,515
8. PS2 Tiger Woods 2004 - 1,388
9. PS2 NASCAR Thunder 04 - 1,001
10. NGC WWF Wrestlemania XIX - 956
Dayum!
Post by: Infernal Monkey on October 06, 2003, 12:55:21 AM
The GameCube version of SCII's still in the charts, too! Take THAT, 1950's society!
*Radio plays*
'An ice cream costs a nickel, and a hot new tune arrives, it's 1959!'
Homer: Oh my God, I've gone back in time!
Lenny: Hey Homer... Oh.. Let me guess.. Gone back in time again?
Homer: Shutup, shutup, you haven't even been born yet!
Post by: Wesisapie on October 06, 2003, 02:06:11 AM
I mean, Ikaruga, F-Zero GX, Viewtiful Joe, MK: DD, what more could you ask for coming up in the space of a month (for me in australia).
I only have three games currently, SSB:M, Zelda:WW, and Metroid Prime, but those three games made my gamecube all worth while.
I don't care about sales or anything, just in playing the games.
Buy Exclusive, Buy Nintendo!
Post by: Ian Sane on October 06, 2003, 08:24:04 AM
Because none of us had the internet back then.
I'm going to take a radical approach and somewhat agree with the notion that Shigeru Miyamoto is hurting Nintendo. Now make no mistake Miyamoto is an amazing game designer and I love most of his games. However his influence has been very apparent in nearly all of Nintendo's releases and as a result the Gamecube lineup has had a bit of a "been there done that" feel to it. Now I'm clearly a big fan of the EAD style of game design but I (and I imagine many other Cube owners) want some variety with their lineup. It's like how I love steak but wouldn't want steak dinners for every meal.
Nintendo has to let their developers have more freedom in their game design. A company like Silicon Knights for example shouldn't be working on existing franchises. They've proved that they have more then enough creativity to work exclusively on original concepts. Plus their ideas are quite different then EAD's so it freshens up the lineup. Talented third parties like Hudson, Camelot and Treasure are the types of developers that when let lose can come up with some amazing content. Instead they've been assigned Mario Party, Mario Golf, and Wario World; all titles featuring EAD characters that are indistinguishable from EAD's own games and don't show off the talent and creativity of the developers. The result is that the Nintendo published Gamecube lineup is for all intents and purposes 90% EAD games. People like EAD games but they don't want nothing but. Every Cube developer should be working on their own thing and designing with their own style.
Getting back on topic I'm very pleased that Cube sales have greatly increased since the price drop. I think one of the big problems with the Cube is that aside from hardcore Nintendo fans the average gamer doesn't want it as their primary console. They may be interested in a few Cube titles here and there but overall the Cube lineup just doesn't cover all of the genres and demographics like the PS2 (and so a lesser extent the Xbox) does. Game consoles are expensive and most people don't feel like spending the money for a second console. However $100 is a perfectly acceptable price for a second console so I assume a fair amount of PS2 and Xbox owners have finally found an excuse to buy a Cube and play those few exclusive games that they wanted to try out. This is great because it gets Nintendo games into the hands of gamers that might have normally not played them. It creates a familiarity with the Nintendo brand with a new audience. So then later when (hopefully) Nintendo launches their next console at the same time as Sony those gamers may give some serious thought to buying the Nintendo console because they really got into an exclusive franchise. This price cut can be used to give new customers a sneak preview of the Nintendo way of gaming before the N5 comes out.
Post by: ghostVi on October 06, 2003, 08:47:43 AM
I just didn't get it, that's all... I was under the impression that it is exactly the cube that covers them all, with a line-up of quality titles.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 06, 2003, 09:04:00 AM
Post by: Fish on October 07, 2003, 05:24:02 AM
GameCube :64,405
PS2 :53,834
Xbox :26,290
These are from the nine biggest retailers in US.
Post by: ghostVi on October 07, 2003, 07:41:09 AM
))Post by: Mario on October 07, 2003, 09:57:07 PM
Post by: PIAC on October 07, 2003, 10:13:00 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 08, 2003, 06:01:58 PM
Quote
Well there aren't many exclusive RPGs or fighting games for example.
Baten Kaitos
Tales of Symphonia
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Lost Kingdoms
Lost Kingdoms 2
Giftpia
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Super Smash Bros Melee
Naruto
Quote
Plus the older demographic is somewhat under-represented in terms of exclusives
Speaking as an older gamer with quite a few older gamer friends, I don't really see a lack of games to play. My favorite game to date is Zelda: Wind Waker, and I have a friend who comes over every day and plays Soul Calibur II with me. He also loves Zelda: Wind Waker. To be an older gamer and enjoy a game doesn't mean that the game has to be rated M. That being said, we have Silicon Knights as an exclusive developer. It just doesn't get any better than that.
Quote
The Cube does have games for each genre but there's a big difference between having one or two titles of a genre and having 10 or 20
You spoke of RPGs earlier. I really don't see where the PS2 has a significant edge over the GameCube in this case. Any hardcore RPG fan isn't going to want to be without Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos, or Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles any more than I want to be without Xenosaga.
There is some truth to what you say, but I think you are seriously overestimating the competition. The Xbox in particular. Other than lots of PC games, and a few PS2 ports, the console doesn't have much going for it. The thing that really gets me about this whole thing is that even though the Xbox is regularly beaten down by the GameCube worldwide, and is losing MS more money than the stockholders really care for, people around here still point to the Xbox as the way for Nintendo to do things. Ask an MS stockholder how much they love Xbox Live.
The PS2 has strength in numbers, but weakness in quality. There are some very good games on PS2, but saying that there's 10 or 20 games in each genre is a little overboard I think. Of those, I would be willing to bet that most of them wouldn't be worth crap. I'm sure that there's 10 - 20 PS2 games in all that most people might like to buy, but I don't think that anyone would care to own 10 games in any PS2 genre.
Quote
Plus keep in mind that I was making a point from the average gamer's point of view. In my opinion the Cube lineup is sufficient for me but I can see why others wouldn't feel the same way.
The average gamer is a dumb bovine who does what he's told. The same as most consumers. I seriously think you are looking for logic where there is none.
For example, when I go to buy a toaster, I look for one with a dial on the side, 2 slots on top, and a switch kind of deal to push the bread down. I don't look for the one with the biggest heat
ower ratio. I don't check online to look for reviews. I don't do any sort of research. I go into the store and buy. I think that this is the logic that most people use. They were told that the Xbox was more powerful before launch. Lots of them believed the hype and just went and bought it, while saying the GameCube was 25X less powerful or whatever crap MS was spewing. Their friends bought it so that they could be cool too. It goes on and on.That's my theory of the gamer.
Post by: ThePerm on October 08, 2003, 07:35:18 PM
Post by: Urkel on October 08, 2003, 07:44:27 PM
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Nintendo has to let their developers have more freedom in their game design. A company like Silicon Knights for example shouldn't be working on existing franchises.
I really don't think Nintendo forced SK to make Twin Snakes, at all. Besides the fact that Denis said so himself, it's pretty obvious he's a huge fan of Metal Gear. In case you didn't notice, he metions that game in almost every interview he does. I even saw him talk about how much he liked MGS in a really old interview back when Too Human was still coming out to the PSX. Nintendo is hardly stifling SK's creativity. There's absolutely no way in hell Too Human has been cancelled. Possibly delayed till N5, but there's no way Nintendo would make them cancel a game of that magnitude.
Honestly now, if you were in the game industry and were offered to make a Metal Gear game, would you turn it down, especially if it was one of your all-time favorite games?
I thought not.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 08, 2003, 07:49:18 PM
Having a talented team like SK working on a Metal Gear game just increases the anticipation!
Post by: getupkids on October 08, 2003, 08:01:47 PM
Post by: Urkel on October 08, 2003, 08:12:36 PM
If Nintendo is in any way hurting SK's creativity, Denis must be completely unaware of it. If you listened to the audio interviews PGC had with him, you can tell that the guy is genuinely enthusiastic about working with Miyamoto. I'd MUCH rather have someone who is a huge fan of the series working on it with two game designers he greatly admires, than to have Konami doing it themselves. That kind of energy is going to be great for the game. This is a game that has huge mainstream commercial appeal, and is a game that Denis really wanted to make. It's win-win if you ask me.
SK is still going to make completely new and original games. Just because they haven't been announced yet doesn't mean they don't exist.
Would SK really have more freedom with any other developer? Crystal Dynamix screwed them over, big time.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on October 09, 2003, 04:39:12 AM
Umm, stories are on various sites, Gamespot.com for one.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 09, 2003, 07:25:23 AM
Make a NEW game from an existing franchise? Yes. Remake an existing one? No unless it was a big change like taking an old NES game and making it 3D. But that's just my opinion and I'm sure other people would think differently.
The SK/Metal Gear example isn't that great because SK seems to be really excited about working on the project. Still you have to wonder why Miyamoto offered the project to SK. A game that already has the story written and the whole basic gameplay scenario worked out doesn't need the expertise of a company like SK to work on it.
I think the "problem" is more with Nintendo spreading out the Mario franchise to every developer they work with instead of encouraging them to work on something new. Sonic is Sega's most popular franchise but you usually don't see any Sonic games being made by anyone but Sonic Team. Each team does it's own thing and as a result Sega's games have a lot more variety than Nintendo's. There's no reason why EAD, Intelligent Systems, Camelot, Hudson Soft, and Treasure should all be working on Mario related games. If EAD can't handle Mario on their own then don't make as many Mario games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 09, 2003, 07:45:58 AM
Post by: Fish on October 09, 2003, 08:04:46 AM
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Originally posted by: Bill
Just use your imagination
No way man, that would mean I would have to think
Post by: Michael8983 on October 10, 2003, 02:48:39 AM
But pretty much of all Sega's non-Sonic games sell terribly.
Anyway, most of the other developers making Mario games are third-parties which Nintendo has no real control over. Nintendo can't just order a company like Camelot or Hudson to create an original game exclusively for the Gamecube. If they were going to make an original game, it would almost certainly be multi-platform if not PS2 exclusive. Without the rights to the mascots, these developers just don't have much reason to develope anything exclusively for the Gamecube.
Post by: BlkPaladin on October 10, 2003, 05:50:55 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 10, 2003, 07:36:07 AM
Well Square Enix is currently working on a non-Nintendo franchise game for the Cube and it's exclusive. Exclusive deals are made all the time without the lending of franchise characters. Seriously if you went up to a small third party developer like Camelot or Treasure and say "make whatever game you want and WE'LL publish and distribute it" they are going to jump at the chance. I think most developers would love to have complete freedom from a publisher.
"But pretty much of all Sega's non-Sonic games sell terribly."
Not true. Sega's Xbox games are the only ones the really sell terribly. Most of Sega's Cube titles have sold quite well. Super Monkey Ball for example was a very bizarre game but was a successful launch title. They aren't all selling huge but they're doing well. The only poor sellers on the Cube were the Sega sports games but those have the problem of competing directly with EA Sports' offerings.
I think having some unique games that don't sell as well as established franchises is better than turning off a huge chunk of the market because to the average person your lineup is all the same stuff. Mario spinoffs usually sell well with the existing userbase but they don't really sell systems. However the big hits that sell consoles are usually something that comes out of nowhere and is completely different then anything else available. Nintendo can't make games like that if they just stick with Mario, Pokemon, etc. GTA3 is the big game of this generation and the GTA series was never a big system selling franchise beforehand. However once they put it in 3D and introduced a gameplay experience that no one had really experienced before the series became huge. Halo is the big Xbox seller and it was a completely unproven franchise. Meanwhile all of Nintendo's Mario titles are for the most part direct sequels to N64 games and unsurprisingly haven't taken off like the previous two examples have. The big sellers of each generation are always either original titles (Halo, Goldeneye, Sonic the Hedgehog) or exisiting franchises with completely new gameplay (Super Mario 64, Final Fantasy VII). That's why Resident Evil isn't as big of a seller this generation and Street Fighter II wasn't as big after the 16 bit generation.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on October 10, 2003, 09:53:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Honestly now, if you were in the game industry and were offered to make a Metal Gear game, would you turn it down, especially if it was one of your all-time favorite games?"
Make a NEW game from an existing franchise? Yes. Remake an existing one? No unless it was a big change like taking an old NES game and making it 3D. But that's just my opinion and I'm sure other people would think differently.
The SK/Metal Gear example isn't that great because SK seems to be really excited about working on the project. Still you have to wonder why Miyamoto offered the project to SK. A game that already has the story written and the whole basic gameplay scenario worked out doesn't need the expertise of a company like SK to work on it.
I think the "problem" is more with Nintendo spreading out the Mario franchise to every developer they work with instead of encouraging them to work on something new. Sonic is Sega's most popular franchise but you usually don't see any Sonic games being made by anyone but Sonic Team. Each team does it's own thing and as a result Sega's games have a lot more variety than Nintendo's. There's no reason why EAD, Intelligent Systems, Camelot, Hudson Soft, and Treasure should all be working on Mario related games. If EAD can't handle Mario on their own then don't make as many Mario games.
Actually, there have been other companies outside of sega who made sonic games. Sonic 3D blast and SonicRX and even the old Spinball wasn't made by sonic teams itself.
Even sega will lend it's franchises to outside parties.
Post by: Cap on October 10, 2003, 11:04:10 AM
nintendos rise in sales could be short lived if this turns out to be true. sony must not like to be outsold, even for only a week.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 10, 2003, 11:05:49 AM
Yeah but that was like ten years ago during Sonic' peak in popularity. Sonic isn't as popular anymore so Sonic Team handles nearly all Sonic games. Mario is also not as popular as he was so he should probably follow the same pattern.
Post by: BlkPaladin on October 10, 2003, 04:44:44 PM
Post by: D-Mac Double on October 10, 2003, 05:17:12 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 10, 2003, 05:31:02 PM
Mario Tennis = big seller
Mario Party = big seller
Mario Golf = big seller
See a pattern? It's common sense to make games that people buy, and it doesn't hurt that all 3 series are very fun(at least for me)
Post by: Darc Requiem on October 11, 2003, 07:04:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Actually, there have been other companies outside of sega who made sonic games. Sonic 3D blast and SonicRX and even the old Spinball wasn't made by sonic teams itself."
Yeah but that was like ten years ago during Sonic' peak in popularity. Sonic isn't as popular anymore so Sonic Team handles nearly all Sonic games. Mario is also not as popular as he was so he should probably follow the same pattern.
Yeah that basically holds true Ian with the exception of their GBA Sonic titles which are farmed out to outside developers.
As far as a PS2 price drop, it would make little since for Sony given the size of their lead. Sony is finally making a small profit on PS2 and they would have to eat a huge loss per unit to match Nintendo's price. MS is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are billing themseves as a competitor to Sony and to match Nintendo's price would ruin that precieved notion. On the other hand Nintendo is going to kill them in hardware sells this holiday, just like last year when MS has the two free games deal and Nintendo failed to respond. Their lead in the US may evaporate if Nintendo's elevated sales continue.
My guess is if Nintendo's high sells continue through the holidays you'll see both Sony and MS respond after the holiday season. I think Nintendo knows this and is counting on this to close in and pass the X-box in US sales.
Darc Requiem
Post by: Marcus Arillius on October 16, 2003, 04:33:34 PM
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Originally posted by: Manny
"internet gaming is already here and its getting faster and better al the time and thats what the majority of people want."
Majority of what people? Everyone can say they want it yet if the sales dont back up that talk then thats what a company is goin to go by. If internet gaming is what the majority of the consumers ( which is the group I guess your assuming to when you say majority) then why havent the ps online aspect been a success and the xbox live kits? Everything is out there for the majority to get what they want yet they arent getting it, I wonder why.
Actually, I do mean consumers but not in the context that you're making it out to be. I was actually talking about the market of people who want internet gaming and/or LAN. Of course, that's obviously implied, sorry I didn't clarify that for you. When people say they want something then I feel they're classified under that market even if they don't purchase anything. However, I feel it's important to emphasize that it's more than a matter of want when it comes to whether or not consumers purchase games for use on the Internet. I'm sure there would be plenty more people using Internet gaming vs. LAN connection if money were no object.
In threads about what "Nintendo needs to do", I see many users complaining about lack of support for internet games from nintendo. However, on other forums no one ever complains about lack of LAN connectivity for the PS2 or Xbox.
