Post by: Grey Ninja on September 18, 2003, 11:01:49 PM
But I just watched "The Arrow". It's a dramatized story about Canada's "Arrow" project back in the '50's, and it's one very well done movie. It especially hit home with me. I used to have a dream to become an Aerospace Engineer. I dropped out after my first year of school though, and switched my major to Computer Science. I wasn't in a school that offered the whole Engineering program, and only had a transfer program where you switched schools after the first year, and I accumulated 4 'D' grades in my first year. It was a shock to me, since I had never gotten a grade below a 'B' before, but 4 non-transferable courses meant that I would have to retake the entire year of school. I wasn't prepared to do that, so I just switched majors. But that aside, this movie really touched home with me. If I had picked a better University, I might be well on my way to becoming a Computer or Aerospace Engineer (I never really decided).
In short, I feel an honest love for my country for the first time. It was Canadian troops who turned the tide of World War I. There were Canadians landing on the beaches of Normandy. There were Canadians training British Pilots in World War II. There were Canadians developing modern fighter aircraft TWO DECADES BEFORE the United States. And most importantly of all, two Canadian game developers are showing world class game design. EA Big has long been standing the only part of EA that I actually like, after developing SSX Tricky. Silicon Knights, I am sure you all know is currently my favorite game developer, and the place I would VERY much like to work one day. (In fact... I have made it my life's goal).
Canada isn't a bad place. Our people seem to be extremely tolerant of other viewpoints for the most part. A Black man can feel at home pretty much anywhere in our country, which doesn't seem to be the case with the US. Canadians also seem to be respected world wide. I have not heard of anyone really (other than Canadians) who have a serious problem with us.
You know why Canada isn't a superpower? The reason is because Canadians have notoriously bad judgement. We tend to elect idiots, and most Canadians seem to choose the WORST console. "The Arrow" seems to have destroyed a bit of the apathy in me. I have long accepted that the Canadian politicians are corrupt as hell, and there's not much that can be done about it. You know what? It's going to be true tomorrow too. There's not much I can do about it.
I took a trip through the US a couple of years back. I was surprised about how many American flags I saw... how many symbols of patriotism I saw... how much stuff I saw that showed that somebody actually cared about what the flag actually symbolized. To me, the flag always showed to me how much Eastern Canada cared about Western Canada (there are no Maple Trees in Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan, North West Territories, or the Yukon... or... other places I am sure! (and nobody speaks french in western Canada either).) But the flag has taken on a whole new meaning for me now.
Anyways, I am way drunk and on the verge of throwing up, so I am going to bed. Night night.
Post by: PIAC on September 19, 2003, 02:03:24 AM
and i told you to wait a bit, then swallow the rest of the drink!
Post by: Shift Key on September 19, 2003, 03:01:36 AM
We have a heap of pride in our sporting teams and athletes, and we couldn't give a stuff about the rest of it.
We also like to bag the hell out of everyone else, especially Kiwis and Pommies.
And we make the best beer EVER!
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 19, 2003, 04:12:49 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 19, 2003, 05:27:36 AM
Quote
and i told you to wait a bit, then swallow the rest of the drink!
I did wait. The drink is still sitting here half empty though.
It looks kind of gross right now actually. It went kinda bad over the night.Quote
And we make the best beer EVER!
Nah, that's Canadians.
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 19, 2003, 09:27:45 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 19, 2003, 10:19:00 AM
Post by: Caliban on September 19, 2003, 03:38:09 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 19, 2003, 03:50:42 PM
That's actually one of the reasons I don't mind Cretien. (or however the hell you spell the damn frog's name.
). He's been in office so long that he really just doesn't give a crap anymore, and he is constantly standing against the US.
Post by: nolimit19 on September 19, 2003, 05:30:50 PM
Post by: Caliban on September 19, 2003, 06:11:47 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on September 19, 2003, 08:37:45 PM
Post by: The Omen on September 19, 2003, 09:26:16 PM
Quote
nolimit19 Switzerland isn't so evolved as some people think. It's just another place in this planet that scum like Nazis are kept protected. Because of them being neutral is one reason to never trust there past, present and future policy.
Very true.. The nazis live like fat cats over there, ever since WWII.
Grey Ninja: Always love your country and stand up for it, but don't be afraid to question. If you except the status quo, you'll be rendered a robot.
noilimit19: People hate America because its a superpower. If we were just another country, nobody would give a sh!t about us. But every country government wants the exact power they ridicule....i dont agree with everything, (some would say anything_), the government does, but i was born here, i live a reasonably good life(besides my mental problems) and i was able to pursue my dream ...what is not to like.? Do we flex our muscle, ? Sure. But so does every country (in varying degrees)
Bottoms up!!!
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 19, 2003, 09:37:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ocarina Blue
I have a dislike for nationalism, as I type I know racism in my country is already surging upwards, being fueled by nationalism.
Just so you know, I am not caucasian.
Anyways, back to the more important matters in life. DRINKING!!!!!
Post by: PIAC on September 19, 2003, 11:48:31 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on September 20, 2003, 05:26:55 AM
To be honest, Canada never was one of those.
Post by: The Omen on September 20, 2003, 05:47:40 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 20, 2003, 05:54:39 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 20, 2003, 06:27:46 AM
Post by: The Omen on September 20, 2003, 06:40:22 AM
Quote
But they didn't, and now there a place where everyone says "eh?" and puts maple syrup on everything, loves hockey (Blegh!) and eats Canadian bacon, which is really ham. What a weird country!
It sounds like you're describing a wednesday night for me in December, and i'm from New Jersey! Alright, i only say eh when being sarcastic, but everything else is a-o-k with me.
Hostile creation, more intelligent words have never been spoken....common sense is back!!!
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 20, 2003, 10:25:50 AM
BEER! (This is the foremost symbol of being Canadian. Canadian Beer)
eh? (When taking Japanese class, I found it very amusing that the Japanese have a direct equivalent to "eh", and they use it just as much)
Hockey (Undeniable. Most Canadians love hockey. I do not however)
The Beaver (The professor stopped at this one. She said that every class she had asked had mentioned the Beaver. She said: "I had no idea the beaver was such a potent national symbol". It actually is too. I think it's just weird and funny enough that most Canadians will remember it.
Quote
To be a super power, don't you generally have to have a massive economy, enormous political clout, and an extremely large and powerful militairy?
Canadians played a really big part in winning World War I. They were also invaluable allies in World War II. They had lots of political clout in the '50s.
When Canada developed the Arrow, they had created a fighter plane that was decades ahead of its time. Canada would have been able to sell it EASILY on the foreign market.
Canada had a great thing when they created the Arrow. But because of a corrupt politician, they took blowtorches to the 37 Arrows that were created, and destroyed all things related to them. That moment is when Canada became a puppet country of the US, and lost any chance of being a superpower. The reason for that is that Canada allowed the US to provide military defense of all of North America, and Canada scrapped its own weapons programs abandoning their own defense.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on September 20, 2003, 04:12:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
And racism is not fueled by patriotism. . . they are just two things common in the same people, for some reason or another. And they are idiots, and despite what you may think, those are not the people that make the difference. Nor am I, simply because I choose not to, but it's not them either
Well said, but I believe that in my specific case, nationalism is to blame for the upsurge of racism. In most places that have been affected by racism, people are discriminated because of the colour of their skin, or the way they speak. In my case however, racism is fueled because of an influx in immigration. Around 70% of our immigrants are still from Europe and North America, dominantly Anglo-Saxon countries, and people never had a problem with that. But in the past 2 years in particular, immigration from Asia has soared. Immigration as a whole has not risen by a huge amount, but the media has gone wild, with stories about terrible driving habits and people who cannot speak English sucking the culture from my country are not uncommon. Naturally, anyone who has heritage from Asia is stereotyped into this category. The racism itself is born from biggitism and stupidity, but the reason people are driven to biggitism and stupidity is fear of change from what my country is in the first place. If people had no pride in my country, then I believe racism here would not be as widespread as it is. Fortunately, racism is still not at an irreversible level, and I'm optimistic it will be quashed before it gets more serious. I apologize for not explaining my train of thought earlier, and I certainly wasn't trying to accuse anyone of being racist if they are patriotic.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on September 20, 2003, 06:58:08 PM
And in a past issue of FHM, they had '15 reasons why we [Australia] are the best country'.
Funny sh*t, considering that it's actually pretty true. Here is just the list, while my fave ones have the details:
1. Gambling
2. Cheap Booze
3. Laziness
4. Drunkeness equals respect
5. Idiocy is rewarded
Being the egalitarian bunch we are, we don't demand intelligence for success. You can buy a farm, tear down all the tress, ruin your soil with salt and erosion, build a damn upstream an watch as everything upstream dies - the government will give you money, and the general population will hold telethons and benefit concerts to compensate for your idiocy, short-sightedness, and general incompetence! Now that's mateship!
6. Deadly animals
7. We root for the underdog
8. Nothing's Scacred
9. We blame the English
You can blame everything on the English; in fact, we hate the English so much, we voted to keep them as our head of state, just so we can keep heaping sh*t on them instead of taking responsibility for ourselves. And they wonder why were known as 'the clever country'.
10. The dole
No need to go further into details about this
Us aussie know why. Haha.11. The climate
12. Indifference
Aussie are ofthe praised for their laid back nature - a nice way of saying we don't really give a sh*t about anything, even if it's important. We may have national pride, but the truth is that no-one even cares about something as simple as the national anthem - even sportsmen and politicians don't seem to know the words. No one worries about civil unrest here - no-one could ever be bothered to turn up.
13. All-year-round sport
14. Crap local music
15. Porn access
...it's not too difficult to get your hands on some quality wirst fuel - newsagents stock a fine selection of educational mags and most till jockeys will give you the benefit of the doubt, even if you're in school uniform and short pants. And if you're lucky enough to live in Canberra, you can watch hardcore x-rated porn while letting off fireworkds and growing weed! Genius!
Hahahaha.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 20, 2003, 07:07:22 PM
Those koalas are some mighty fierce creatures. They act all tame and innocent with their cute little eyes and big noses, but when you are sleeping they sneak through your window...ever so quietly...and
....
and....
AND THEY GO FOR THE JUGULAR!
....
^_^'
Post by: Termin8Anakin on September 20, 2003, 07:14:48 PM
"Australia has an amazing array of native wildlife - much of which can kill you. We have the world's deadliest snakes, long with crocs, spiders, sharks and even evil jellyfish. Luckily, most Aussies are too lazy to go anywhere near them, so it's only tourists who cop the brunt of their killing power."
Post by: Matrix on September 20, 2003, 08:09:09 PM
Also, it's doubtful that the Arrow would have made Canada a super-power. Missiles were the way of the future, which is one of the main reason the Arrow ran out of steam.
Yeah, it's a nice dream to think Canada could become a Super Power with the Arrow, and everything is all America's fault-blah-blah, but it's just that. A dream.
Edit: Very interesting link. Read 3 and 4. It's not based around conspiracy theories, which is what most Arrow stuff in the media is.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avarrow.html
Of course, you're free to believe what you like. I'm not one for arguing political stuff, since it'll only get me upset. I probably shouldn't even have posted.
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 20, 2003, 08:53:05 PM
Quote
Also, it's doubtful that the Arrow would have made Canada a super-power. Missiles were the way of the future, which is one of the main reason the Arrow ran out of steam.
The simple thought that SAM launchers could ever replace manned fighters just strikes me as ridiculous. There will always be a need for capable fighters. That was proven decades later when aircraft such as the F-15, F-16, and F-18 came into service... with many of the same characteristics as the Arrow I might add. Similar flight ceilings, and performance characteristics for example.
Quote
Price and practicality are probably the more likely killers of the Arrow. Producing it would have just been way to costly for Canda, and any other country.
The costs which the Diefenbaker government quoted were based on the costs of the prototypes. The production model would have been MUCH cheaper. The estimated cost of the Arrow would have been about $20 Million, which I think is pretty reasonable. Our currency has devalued greatly since that time, but I still think that's a pretty fair price. More than you might expect for an aircraft of the time, but it truly wasn't an aircraft of its time.
Quote
(From the link you provided)
On 20 February 1959, Prime Minister Diefenbaker cancelled the CF-105, with the order taking effect immediately. The prototype Arrows had completed 66 flights, for a total of 70 hours of flying time. The first Mark 2 prototype was almost ready for flight tests, with four more Mark 2s virtually complete. All the Arrows built or in production were scrapped, and design documentation and production tooling was generally disposed of, apparently as a security measure. None of the Iroquois-powered Mark 2s ever flew.
That doesn't sound a little dumb to you? It's from things like this that the conspiracy theories come from. The Canadian government really wasn't justified in doing this, and it's pretty much undeniable that it cost Canada a great deal. It laid off almost 20,000 people, and Canada had contracts to deliver Iroquois Engines to France for use in their Mirage fighters that was cancelled as well, as a result of the loss of the Arrow. The profits of the sale of the engines would have cut a great deal of price off of the Arrow.
And no, I don't blame the US. I blame the stupidity of the Canadian government.
Post by: Shift Key on September 20, 2003, 11:56:53 PM
It's an Aussie beer that you can find in some pubs in the USA. Give it a go if you come across it.
As for Canadian beers, i haven't come across any here, yet.
We've got "Canadian Club" bourbon (i think) and that's not bad.
Termin8: IT'S TRUE. IT'S SO TRUE!
The comments may look crazy, but their not far off the mark.
The Dole - nuff said.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on September 21, 2003, 01:21:41 AM
hehehe.
Post by: nolimit19 on September 22, 2003, 07:43:58 PM
and sorry i realize everyone here isnt from america, but when i say "our country" i mean the us...just to clear that up.
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 22, 2003, 08:05:46 PM
Just some food for thought.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on September 22, 2003, 08:56:30 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 22, 2003, 08:58:46 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on September 22, 2003, 09:03:52 PM
Post by: RABicle on September 23, 2003, 01:20:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nolimit19
...and its not bush or clinton or any one guy you can blame...its the system....to me america is far to left...giving money to all these people who havent earned it. medicare, medicaid and social security all need to go in my opinion...
Left? IMO, if America was any further to the right it would be bordering on Facism.
I think my avatar sums up my political position.
Actually on a semi related note, Lenin looked at Australia, which was the most socialist country in the world at the time, when seting up communist Russia.
Australia is now only slightly left, but I say we need more leftness!
Um, yeah where was I? Oh yeah i dont like patriotism much, I really dont like Australia too much. Proabbly the proudest I've ever felt being Australian was when 4 men fell over to give Steve Brabury the gold of the Mens 1000m ice skating last year. Oh it was magical.
Post by: Shift Key on September 23, 2003, 04:21:59 AM
And I'd say my proudest moment to be an Aussie is the AFL Grand Final - best sporting day on the calendar. Followed closely by Bathurst.
And Australia is among the highest taxed countries in the world. Up yours little Johnnie!
Luckily I don't work enough hours to get majorly taxed.
I guess that's another reason why the dole is so popular. Meh.
Post by: RABicle on September 24, 2003, 02:01:12 AM
The dole is important though, one of the most important parts of any economy. Can you imagine what would happen is the dole and other unemployment benefits were taken away? crime would surge upwards as people would be forced into crime to live, the moral of the lower class would drop, because suddenly all the people on the dole wont have any money then a lot less people will be participating in the countries economy, so people would be spending less, making business and commerce drop, in an effort to maintain profits business would have to sack employees, putting more people out of work.
Basically it would all end in a major depression.
And what are you crapping on about crappy local music? Australian music is great.
Post by: Shift Key on September 24, 2003, 03:00:32 AM
I'm a huge fan of Aussie music.
Post by: PIAC on September 24, 2003, 03:08:48 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on September 24, 2003, 07:08:28 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on September 25, 2003, 01:16:08 PM
The only reason those programs were set up are for the same reasons as universal health care; competition is good but we don't want to kill people because it gets too intense...
Post by: nolimit19 on September 26, 2003, 04:44:56 PM
to change the topic though...who do you guys think will win the democratic nomination?
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on September 26, 2003, 06:19:20 PM
As far as healthcare, not everyone gets it or can afford it. Many employers get around giving their employees benefits by only hiring part time workers. If a low wage worker can get benefits, a problem is also that an employer does not have to cover that employees family. Medical insurance is expensive and many people cannot afford it on their own.
Why don't you get out of whatever suburb you live in and go see what is really happening out there? It's really easy to sit back and say that people should get it together and not allow poverty to happen to them, but not everyone can help themselves. I really hope that "conservatives" like you don't wind up running this country. Poor people would be in a lot of trouble, having someone like you saying their poverty doesn't even really exist.
Post by: RABicle on September 27, 2003, 03:40:37 AM
I have a friend at school, her mum is on the dole (unemployment benefit) they live in a pretty dodgy little house in a small town. her mum works her arse off applying for at least 5 jobs every week. She was ounce the local member of state parliment for the areafor the labour (left wing) party. Conservatives voted her out.
Let's see if it wasn't for the unemployment benefit introduced by her political party decades ago then she would've been forced into a life of crime to feed and dress herself and my friend because of a decision made by one of the partys ministers that caused voters to vote her out.
Does that sound fair?
Post by: nolimit19 on September 28, 2003, 07:29:31 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 29, 2003, 04:22:01 PM
And yeah, I'm cruel and heartless, but most people that are actively living, literally, on the street, are gutless cowards that got there by their own ignorance. They could work at a frickin McDonalds, or a factory or something, the ones that don't are just drunken fools.
No, our poverty is like paradise compared to most place. . . and I don't care much about those places either, so there is little point in me talking any more. Time to take your hits out on me. Have fun.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 29, 2003, 05:14:02 PM
Just my two cents...
(Though I'll be of age to vote early next year, I WILL NOT vote...Bush has just gotten incompetent, and every single one of the Democratic candidates is a complete moron...Where are the good candidates!?)
Post by: nolimit19 on September 29, 2003, 06:07:30 PM
Post by: RABicle on September 29, 2003, 11:18:20 PM
I think thats pretty godman useless of Hostile Creations for not caring about other countries.
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 30, 2003, 05:50:18 PM
And even when you do, if you do, I'll still live my middle to upper class, comfortable life, and just wish them the best of my luck. Because really, that's all I can give them that'll do any good. I wouldn't mind if everyone is happy, but no one seems to want to be happy. And that's their decision to make, not mine. . . and I can't help change that, and really, you shouldn't try either. But I'm not going to even try to change you, because that's not the way I work, and I would doubtlessly fail anyway. Anyway, I wish you, at least, the best of luck.
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 04, 2003, 06:01:53 AM
Dave Barry for president. That is all. If you don't know who Dave Barry is, go here..
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 04, 2003, 06:48:58 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 04, 2003, 01:01:11 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 05, 2003, 12:47:56 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 06, 2003, 10:27:03 AM
I would most expect to find a dead person in one of those "bad neighborhoods" that has been murdered or something to that extent.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 07, 2003, 11:30:26 PM
Post by: CardBoardBox on October 08, 2003, 04:22:21 PM
WICKED WICKED WICKED WICKED WICKED WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
Yes crime and starvation are umm...totally different...hahah australia..hehehe....
*mumble grumbles*
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 08, 2003, 04:55:38 PM
Whether you see it or not it happens.
The fact that it happens less here doesn't make it any worse. 72 people starve to death every two minutes, is that not bad enough?
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 08, 2003, 07:15:34 PM
Post by: RABicle on October 09, 2003, 05:52:02 AM
It'll tell ya what, DEAD! But the media would rather tell you about the murder victim than the fool so you wouldn't hear about it
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 09, 2003, 07:17:22 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 09, 2003, 12:46:28 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 10, 2003, 10:50:36 AM
Quote
It wouldn't be hard for someone to freeze to death in the USA. What is someguy got drunk at the pub and passed out while walking home? And it was snwoing?
Yeah, a drunk. But no person that has an actual will to live is going to die of starvation, and, in most circumstances, freezing, in America. Sure, people freeze in Amercia, but I'd venture to say that those numbers are extremely low.
And I maintain that if anyone starves in America, that person is a moron.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 10, 2003, 12:46:49 PM
Another 500 million will die in the next 15 years.
Humane aren't we, lets cut back taxes and give it back to the people who earned it, not the people who need it.
Oh give me a break, if you consider a few bucks a day as more than enough you really need to count how much you spend every day.
Just on food alone you spend more than they make in 3 or 4 days.
And the veterans comment, do I need to make my point even more clear. Lets see here, veterans, ah yes, the people who served actively in the militairy and we now decide we can screw over because we dont want to give them enough money to live off.
You want to find dead starving people, go down to the city hopsital and look in the morgue. I take it you haven't ever looked down a few of the not so nice streets and seen people lying there motionless. You keep on saying 'they dont exist, so maybe if I say it enough people will agree' because frankly I know for a fact it is true. Even if people have drug problems or what not, why do you think they got into it? Was it because they had this vast wealth lying around and they decided not to use it.
Look, just because there are success stories of people who fought through opression and staved off death and hatred, doesn't mean everyone or even many of us can do that. There is a reason why crime rates are higher in poor areas, and let me tell you, cutting off wellfare is not going to do jack to stop it. Without it, you have a bunch of poor people, and the only place around them that makes money is *gasp* gangs and drugs. Why do you think schools and sherriff departments spend so much on getting people off of drugs, yet only reach so far? Is it because the people they are trying to get out if it are just horrible people? I'm sure there are a few that are just rotten from the start, but habbit is learned. You can't just say, well maybe if one or two of them mess up, and it is bitched about by some politicians, but in reality is one of the things we spend the least on, it should go away.
You want to worry about something that costs a lot of money, worry about the military or research for it. Hell the black budget is larger than the military budget, worry about that.
I'm just saying though, you act like our country is the best thing in the world because that is what you see, but there are spots and there are people whom have never seen 1/1000th the privledges we have. If you are going to insinuate they don't exist or it's their fault, look at the people sometime, don't throw around hear say.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 10, 2003, 02:54:28 PM
1. not have a place to live
2. not have a job
3. selling drugs to "get by"
like i said there seem to be jobs for millions of illegal immigrants, but no jobs for the poor people on welfare..awww too bad for them. also you cn find cheap housing for something like 500 a month if you were desperate....do the math.....get a roommate plus minimum wage....like i said....i dont feel sorry for (most) anyone. and lastly, selling drugs kills our society on so many levels, and anyone who resorts to that life style deserves to be locked away.
and like i said before, i really do think that people should help others in other countries, and our own as well. and the liberals like to talk about it like they are so holy, but when the thought of giving iraq 87 billion dollars comes up, they really change their tune. hmmmmm interesting. when it comes down to it, the us has nonprofit organizations for a reason....to not profit and help others. the governement is always less efficient then a well run organization. all i know is that if liberals were allowed to tax the crap out of the rich like they say they want to america wouldnt be what it is today. liberals lack economic logic. think about it quickly...who pays the low end guys....thats right, the rich! amazing, simply facinating. so that means that if taxes are raised for the rich, they wont have as much money to pay their employers... WHAT A CONCEPT! one that liberals refuse to understand to gain the poor vote! it sounds great trust me. i am just a poor college studet and my family is just normal middle class. i am not rich by american standards, and at first hearing the dems stance on taxes, i imediately agreed. however, if you know anything about anything you realize that is not hte answer....also raising the minimum wage....say you are a business owner and the minimum wage is raised...you have two options to maintain your current pofits.....raise prices, or cut down on employment....hmmmm and we blame bush for our bad economy.
whats the point of all this??? less taxes means a more efficient government, use of money, and economy. if people want to give to the poor it should be their choice, and i think that we as the richest country in the world should definitely take charge in that, and we already do. americans give away tons of money to charitable organizations each year. and like i said, government should be their for the extreme cases, but none of the 500 billion on free health care for the poor and elderly crap that we have today. if you smoked for 30 years, you were asking to die, that was your descion and not mine, why should i pay for it....the answer is...i shouldnt.
http://www.thesakeofargument.com/archives/000078.html
people dont starve to death in america, and thoes that go to sleep hungery are better off then they think...there is an obiesity epidemic in the country and they dont have to worry about that
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 10, 2003, 03:36:40 PM
The minimum wage may not raise the number of people who are employed, but it helps those that are employed. If the minimum wage is too low, then those who are employed at that wage will not be able to live at a level the government (and therefore the people who voted it to power) feel is acceptable. A low minimum wage may help production, and employment levels, but it does not have a positive impact on the actual standard of living, look at Bolivia for evidence of this.
Free health care once again doesn't aid your economy, but it aids the general standard of living in your country (when I say standard of living, I'm not referring to GDP, BTW). Health insurance is expensive, and not everyone can afford it. Your government is obligated to ensure that health care, protection against unemployment, reasonable employment standards and protection for those in circumstances beyond their control (such as old age and poverty) are accessible under article 25 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
EDIT: Grammar
Post by: nolimit19 on October 10, 2003, 04:21:12 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 10, 2003, 05:00:45 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 10, 2003, 05:40:53 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 10, 2003, 06:23:20 PM
You don't think you are by atleast a thousand times off better than a lot of those kids? Do your parents care about you? If that is worth a lot to you, think about how much it is to someone whose parents who don't.
If you want to get into jobs, guess what is happening now and in the future. A major outsourcing of jobs from the US. Straight onto cheaper countries, so yes, there is going to be a even larger number of unemployed people in the US within the next few decades. Like it or not, it will happen, if you don't believe it yet, look at the tech sector. Next year the rate of jobs exported will grow 128% from this past year, by the end of the decade, it is expected to be around 5000%.
Obviously though, you have it that you know this subject from head to toe, so whatever you think must be right.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 10, 2003, 08:03:29 PM
I must confess that I do not go down to the morgue in my free time to check and see how many people starved to death. Sorry that I have not experienced dead people sitting there rotting on the road, but I doubt it would influence my opinion or make me any more or less knowledgeable about what's going on. Yes, extreme drug addicts and drunkards probably do starve to death on occassion, but they probably OD or wreck much more often. And who's fault is that? Their fault. And you don't have to take drugs to sell them. . . that's no excuse.
I'd probably say more, but I'm bored and this argument has gotten repetitive, not to mention that it may very well be locked soon. Unless something that I have to comment on comes up, this will probably be my last post in this thread.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 11, 2003, 07:42:41 AM
Go down to the morgue, your arguement that seeing death won't change your mind is just kind of out there. I mean look at the holocaust. It's one thing to say ya 5 million people dying is bad, then to see just exactly what 5 million horrendous deaths look.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 11, 2003, 07:49:32 AM
I've seen dead people, you know, funerals and stuff. My grandfather, for instance, I touched his face after he had died of lung cancer, while he was in the coffin. He was someone that I knew, and liked. Why should some emaciated corpse in a morgue changed my opinion more than that, some drugged up fool that I never knew or cared about remotely? It won't. I'm not the type of person to change my opinion over a little spilled blood. . . or anything, for that matter.
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 11, 2003, 08:01:04 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 11, 2003, 08:42:52 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 11, 2003, 06:46:30 PM
You obviously missed my point, manunited. I clearly stated that it would not change me. Do you doubt what I'm saying? I know what I'm talking about. All the corpses in the world wouldn't make me change my mind, and if you don't understand it, just let it go.
Okay, now I'm really gonna stop posting in this thread. Honestly
