Post by: Mario on September 05, 2003, 03:40:50 AM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-5-804554,00.html
Hey Eidos? Screw you.
Post by: Plugabugz on September 05, 2003, 03:47:47 AM
Post by: Michael8983 on September 05, 2003, 03:56:25 AM
It's already been established that only good third-party titles sell on the Gamecube and, like most third-parties, Eidos just doesn't make those.
I think Eidos is wrong in saying the Gamecube is a declining business though.
During the second quarter of the year things were bad but in July Gamecube sales almost matched XBox sales and with FZero and Soul Calibur 2 - both of which are supposably selling VERY strongly - they may have actually surpassed XBox sales in August but we won't know until the numbers are released. Things are looking good this Fall too with Nintendo's strongest and most varied line-up ever and probably a price-drop to help hardware sales too. I think, by the end of the year, all the nay-sayers will be eating their words.
Post by: BlkPaladin on September 05, 2003, 04:09:33 AM
Post by: egman on September 05, 2003, 04:17:35 AM
But this will only work against Eidos in the end if Nintendo becomes an attractive platform again. They are essentially burning the bridge and I don't think Iwata will give a damn about rebuilding it when companies like Capcom and Namco are giving better and more significant support.
Post by: joshnickerson on September 05, 2003, 04:24:21 AM
Fuh. Methinks they are just trying to find someone to blame for the uber-disaster that was Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness. I do agree with egman's comment; at what point DID Eidos develop any Gamecube titles?
This affects me just about as much as Acclaim scaling back GC support: Who cares? I've never bought an Eidos game before anyway.
Perhaps Eidos and Acclaim should team up to make "Turok Raider: Dinosaur of Darkness" and claim the title of the crappiest game ever made.
Post by: PIAC on September 05, 2003, 04:44:47 AM
i saw it at EB for $20 aussie dollarydoo's and even then its still a bit expensive 
but i digress, yay another 3rd party 'ditches' support, its bad in some respects i guess, but then geez i doubt anyone here will miss them, especailly now they dont handle the Time Splitters series as somene else said.
owwww but mummy i was really hoping for an Angel of Darkness port too
Post by: nolimit19 on September 05, 2003, 05:11:49 AM
Post by: Mushroom Kingdom on September 05, 2003, 06:19:15 AM
Post by: Mushroom Kingdom on September 05, 2003, 06:20:21 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 05, 2003, 06:22:23 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 05, 2003, 06:30:52 AM
"First Acclaim says they won't make games for the cube and now this. If this sort of thing continues you may not be able to purchase any ****ty games for the cube. This is a portent of dark times ahead. Yes…dark times indeed." Gabe, Penny-Arcade, on Mace Griffin's GC cancellation
Post by: Ian Sane on September 05, 2003, 07:05:20 AM
Gotta love that Gabe comment. The slogan for Cube gamers should be "we don't take no sh!t from nobody!"
Post by: Sirmorphix on September 05, 2003, 07:08:35 AM
The fact that they referred to Nintendo as declining business from a company that had to sell itself off to survive is pretty hypocritical. That and a game company which just finally became profitable again this year, also really has no grounds to try and slam another company that is one of the most profitable in the world.
Bye bye Eidos, it's not like I bought your crappy games any way.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on September 05, 2003, 07:34:11 AM
Acclaim ditches almost all support for Nintendo and winds up with stock selling for less than dollar, (One of the requirements to stay listed,) they have been give a chance to try and get the price above a dollar and it must stay above a dollar for a set number of consecutive days or they get delisted. Sure it wasn't just because of dropping almost all suport for Nintendo, but I think it was part of it.
So the rule is: DON'T MESS WITH NINTENDO!
I have Blood Omen 2 on Xbox, possibly the worst game ever made, a complete and utter pile of donkey poo.
Post by: Cap on September 05, 2003, 08:33:52 AM
Post by: bonestormer on September 05, 2003, 09:02:53 AM
However much I really like some of my GC games, I'd be pissed if I couldn't play the next Burnout, Hitman, ASB, Soul Reaver, ect. The big Nintendo blockbuster that comes out every 4 months just isnt enough to keep me happy. I couldn't stand it of all I owned was a GC.
And Edios didn't say Nintendo was a declining business, they said GAMECUBE was. And I find it hard to disagree. With a smaller and smaller selection (compared to others), no GTA, no online, ect, ect. Besides the diehard Nintendo/Mario/Zelda fan (who I bet already has a GC), who would go out today and get a GC over PS2 or Xbox? Not many. How well would of SC2 done on GC without link? Not well and that's sad.
Post by: Perfect Cell on September 05, 2003, 09:11:59 AM
Exactly! . I dont understand this Elitist attitude... "Oh good less crap on the gamecube" Im sorry but this news is never good, no matter how you spin it. Third Parties are dropping GCN games every month... things wont suddenly change magically with the N5..... Nintendo needs to stop this now not hope that the Next System is the awneser to its problems. Why would Third parties make games for N5?at all? Tough times no matter how you spin it
Post by: Michael8983 on September 05, 2003, 09:22:26 AM
But just as some really mediocre third-parties are dropping Gamecube support there are some really talented third-parties like Namco and Sega that seem to be giving it stronger support than ever and are actually having success in doing so. So I think, all things considered, Nintendo's third-party situation is improving. Losing support from mediocre developers that weren't really even supporting the Gamecube to begin with is no big deal but building alliances with the most powerful and prominent Japanese third-parties is a VERY big deal that could do wonders for Nintendo's next console.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on September 05, 2003, 09:33:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Cap
eidos also did hitman2, which i thought was an excellent game. i was looking forward to hitman3.
Actually IO Interactive developed it. Eidos only published it. Now IO is making Freedom Fighters for EA. I hope IO stays away from Eidos. I also hope Free Radical develops for someone else as well.
Post by: Cap on September 05, 2003, 10:10:59 AM
as for free radical, gamerfeed.com is reporting that eidos will not be publishing time splitters 3, so gc still has a chance of getting that game.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 05, 2003, 10:40:41 AM
Yet, Eidios just released one of the WORST most bug filled peices of crap ever to plague video games. I'm, of course, talking about the ultra crappy "tomb raider: AOD." After seeing how bad it really was, I could not believe that any company could get away with releasing such a poor title. This game has to be the biggest rip off the public has seen since the Ps2. It's poorly desinged and as I said before, FILLED with glitches! Not to mention the fact, that Tomb Raider, the flagship in Eidios' publishing library, has been steadily declining in sales since the SECOND game.
Now 4 crappy TR games later, Eidios has the gall to blame their own failure and incompitence on Nintendo. What a load of BULL!
Time Splitters 2 and Hitman 2 were both garbage. Also, did anyone know that about one year ago Eidios tried to sell itself to any interested party, yet no one accepted their offer?! Play the new TR game and you will know why. This is the truth.
What really burns me is that this article shows more of IGN's extremely Anti-Nintendo policy.
They HATE Nintendo and it shows. Even idiot, Matt Casssima, the douche bag that runs Cube.IGN resents the company and system he is suppossed to report on.
Does anyone even bother to mention that the X-Box has lost over 1.35 BILLION since it's launch? No, because M$ wont let them. In this industry, it's all about profit, and M$ has seen NONE on it's X-Box brand. It's the sort of major story you'd expect to see on the top page of website or a magazine, but you don't. Well, know you know why.
Also, no one ever mentions the SERIOUS production problems with $ony's PSP portable. I'm expecting the classic , PS1+PS2 "disc read error" complaints to start pouring in VERY soon after the systems launch. Also another major story you won't see in print.
So in conclusion, there are bigger stories out there than Eidios pulling it's support for GC. Yet the competitions hype machine is using it's marketing muscle to try and use this against Nintendo. Let me tell you this, Eidios leaving Big N' is a GOOD thing.
P.S. I won't even mention the fact that Nintendo fans tend to be well informed and they have good tast in games. That's something that just doesn't work out for companies who are used to working in the $ony philosophy of "Marketing over Substance."
I only speak the truth.
Post by: ThePerm on September 05, 2003, 10:42:31 AM
Eidos is not a a Symbiot...its a parasite. It try's to take advantage of a company which could maker it do good business in the process it causes problems for that company. IE the bad press its doing now. I dont see why every company has to ANNOUNCE thier lack of support. If you want to quit supporting it do it quietly.
oh and agentseven i dont think Timesplitters 2 is a bad game. I won't blame the developer Free Radicals(ex Rare Employees(goldeneye/Perfect Dark)) for the publishers(Eidos) shtuff. Most Eidos games are made by Core which ill agree makes shitty games.
but Agent Seven is pretty much said it well. Also the ign thing. Matt is just highly critical...its tough love.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 05, 2003, 10:54:44 AM
Yeah it's not like Nintendo announced that they won't be supporting the PS2 and Xbox.
The Gamecube userbase rewards quality developers and punishes crappy ones. In a way it's like a small gamers' rebellion against some of the negative changes the industry has had in the last few years. Nintendo doesn't have to make a system where crappy games sell. They just have to make sure that crappy games are the ONLY games that don't sell. If they can get it so that N5 sales follow that trend then little by little the quality developers will move to Nintendo as they no longer have to compete with the crappy ones. That can only be a good thing for both gamers and Nintendo themselves.
Post by: darknight06 on September 05, 2003, 10:57:32 AM
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on September 05, 2003, 11:04:38 AM
Ya' understand what I mean? It's not ruining gamecube sales. Most Gamecube owners are aware of gaming (otherwise, mostly uninformed/mainstream gamers play X-Box and PS2). Gamecube owners, IMO, are most radical about video games. They keep up with news, reviews, and usually know the game they're going to get before it releases and before there are any ocmmercials about it.
Post by: ThePerm on September 05, 2003, 11:25:09 AM
Nintendo gamecube ...eidos wanted to feed off you....
Post by: AgentSeven on September 05, 2003, 11:55:00 AM
Post by: Michael8983 on September 05, 2003, 11:56:26 AM
Yeah, I still agree with Nintendo's quality over quantity stance. The ratio just shouldn't be nearly as steep as it was with the N64 and, to a lesser degree, with the Gamecube. I think the ideal situation would be for their to be at least two great EXCLUSIVE games a month. Excepting perhaps a few of the slow months like January, June, and July. There would of coure have to be variety among them too. At least one great game of every genre per year.
Between Nintendo's growing first and second party support and its alliances with some of the most talented third-party developers, I think it could manage it. If not by the end of the Gamecube's run then certainly for its next console. It's all Nintendo would need to start doing leagues better in the console market.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 05, 2003, 12:34:31 PM
"The GameCube is a declining business," said McGarvey, who added that traditionally Eidos has not invested heavily in Nintendo systems. "If other companies follow us, [Nintendo] will have a hard battle to fight."
Yeah, and if companies DON'T follow this example and actually GIVE the Gamecube support, Nintendo WOULDN'T have such a hard battle. It startles me that a CEO of a major corporation could make himself look like such an idiot in just one sentence. The reason the Gamecube is a "declining business" (which is untrue, since the Cube is doing at least as well as the Xbox) is BECAUSE everybody's pulling their support from it. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
darknight: 3rd parties couldn't this crap back then because since both Nintendo and Sega made such high quality games, 3rd parties were forced to match that in order to get sales. Now that Nintendo is pretty much the only 1st party who makes such high quality games, whereas Sony and especially MS do no, 3rd parties flock to them where their crappy games they put no effort into have no competition from good games.
Post by: Nintendo on September 05, 2003, 02:17:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: AgentSeven
Time Splitters 2 and Hitman 2 were both garbage. Also, did anyone know that about one year ago Eidios tried to sell itself to any interested party, yet no one accepted their offer?! Play the new TR game and you will know why. This is the truth.
What kind of a stupid f are you anyway? Can't you imagine tons of other people loving Time Splitters 2 and Hitman 2? SO what if Hitman 3 was the only game Eidos was planning to release for the GameCube in the future, they will still miss it or get it on their PC, PS2, etc. Your truth is nothing more than your opinion stated as fact, in other words nonsense. You know, for once everyone actually agrees Eidos is not a loss, why do you have to spout so much conspiracy theory crap *mumble*
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 05, 2003, 02:31:13 PM
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on September 05, 2003, 03:29:21 PM
I personally don't like the story mode as much as the multiplayer.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 05, 2003, 03:36:17 PM
That's like saying Crash isn't as good as Mario.
The multiplayer for TS2 is quite simply the best I've ever seen in my life and provided the bulk of my gameplay with the game. However, I did like the single player a lot, too- it's certainly not the best but I thought it was very entertaining.
Post by: Perfect Cell on September 05, 2003, 03:58:35 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 05, 2003, 04:18:44 PM
Eidios and Acclaim are bad for the industry and all gamers alike. Any company that produces the crap games that these two companies have, should be run out of the industry for good.
In fact, the real spin here is that this departure has hurt Nintendo in some way, when it hasn't.
Post by: Perfect Cell on September 05, 2003, 05:10:34 PM
Post by: Cap on September 05, 2003, 05:27:25 PM
nintendo needs to do something about this soon, or i see other third partys doing the same as eidos. they have made great strides to recapture the japanese third party developers, now they need to work on the rest of the world.
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on September 05, 2003, 06:38:28 PM
Post by: Djunknown on September 05, 2003, 09:09:58 PM
While some tout as Mario Sunshine as the dark horse of the series, at least it was technically sound. Its more than I can say for EIDOS and the boys at Core (What went wrong? 8 month delay?) Its a shame, since Lara had (and may have if Crystal Dynamics don't screw up) the potential to be great, but just couldn't be fulfilled. Her GBA venture wasn't too bad...
Unless Eidos can pull a GTA3 out of their hat (Game that sells like mad, not specifically that genre), Nintendo can just shrug it off like it was nothing.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on September 05, 2003, 10:35:46 PM
Post by: PIAC on September 06, 2003, 03:43:30 AM
edios dropping support is good bad and indifferent, good = they didn't do anything that great anyway (see Angel of Darkness) bad = companies 'dropping' support is never good, indifferent = when its all said and done, they didn't really do much for the cube anyway so whats to miss?
Post by: rpglover on September 06, 2003, 05:21:19 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 08:58:16 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 06, 2003, 09:09:04 AM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 09:49:07 AM
Plain and simple, TS 2 and Hitman 2 SUCKED and did not sell very well.
Eidos is a parasite. Tomb Raider:Angel of Darkness is one of the worst, most bug filled games EVER MADE. Everyone who bought it should sue Eidos for the money they wasted on this title.
Good Riddence.
PS. the guy who calls himself "Nintendo" is the real "Stupid F" as he puts it. Just read his moronic post and you will see why.
I only speak the truth.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 12:19:56 PM
Post by: egman on September 06, 2003, 12:34:04 PM
In the end, these kinds of announcements are bad for Nintendo's image, whether we hate Eidos output or not. That is why I'm dissappointed with the press release because it's an uneccesary and dishonest jab at Nintendo, and also a slap to the face of the GameCube userbase. It's like we are being blamed for having standards or at least having the common sense to know when trash is being shoveled our way. That kind of insult has insured that I will never purchase anything with their label attached to it ever again. The bankruptcy of their company can't come any sooner.
Nintendo has some big problems with western 3rd paties, but this is case were they shouldn't bother. Eidos dug their own grave and are now calling it on Nintendo to try to spin that blame off of them. Seeing absolutely no support from someone like a Take 2 or an EA is one thing; being blasted by an Eidos is entirely different. Nintendo nor its fans can't be blamed for bad sales when Eidos published too few titles on the system with major delays and obvious quality issues.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 12:37:03 PM
I'm suprised that no one has bothered to mention the newly re-kindled relationship between Nintendo and Square. Also there is the strong partnership between Sega and Big N. What about the fact that both Namco and Capcom LOVE Nintendo and both companies agree fully with the "Nintendo Philosophy." The relationships Nintendo has with these companies truly outweighs the departure of the no talent hacks from Eidos and Acclaim.
Good Riddance to both!
By the way, has anyone here actually played Tomb Raider:AOD? I have and it was the worst, most bug filled game I have EVER PLAYED. Seriously. I returned it to EB the day after I bought it.
I also briefly owned T.S. 2. Which did not suck as bad as Hitman 2, but in the end it still sucked.
Also I noticed someone called me a "fan boy." Well I own ever game system from Atari 2600 to the X-Box. The only thing I'm a fan of is QUALITY GAMING. Think before you speak, fool.
ps. did I say that TimeSplitters 2 and Hitman 2 both sucked?
just having a little fun with my critics
I only speak the truth
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 12:41:10 PM
And Nintendo and Square's newly "rekindled" relationship isn't much, if you ask me. So far they have ONE Gamecube game in production, and that won't even be out here until next year. I'm beginning to think Crystal Chronicles only exists so that Square could make games for the GBA. Some relationships I'd be paying more attention to are the ones with Namco, Sega, and Capcom. Then again, all of those companies are Japanese and Nintendo really needs some Western support, as agman pointed out.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 12:44:20 PM
The companies Big N has alligned itself with are like GOLD. As for Square, they have a BIG suprise
in store for Nintendo fans, other than just FF:CC and FF:Tactics Advance.
But I'll let you guys find that out for yourselves....
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 12:45:30 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 12:46:25 PM
And FF Tactics Advance is a GBA game, as I thought the name would imply. That benefits the Gamecube in no way at all.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 12:48:58 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 12:50:12 PM
X-Box and GameCube are hardly "even." Nintendo has actually MADE money on the GC, whereas
M$ has lost over 1 1/2 BILLION on the box since launch.
As for $ony, we all know the real reason they are number one. Style over substance. They wont be number one for long however, that you can take to the bank.
I have said my peace.
I only speak the truth
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 06, 2003, 12:50:42 PM
As for Square, I don't think that we should speak so soon. Games by Square or Enix take YEARS to finish, and Square hasn't been back for that long. I may be wrong on this, but I anticipate no less than 1 more high profile game for GCN before N5. I highly doubt that Nintendo would allow GBA development without appropriate GCN development from Square.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 12:52:46 PM
And if Square has anything else planned for the Gamecube, I'll be surprised. What I wouldn't be surprised about is Square blaming Nintendo if Crystal Chronicles doesn't sell well over here.
"X-Box and GameCube are hardly "even." Nintendo has actually MADE money on the GC, whereas
M$ has lost over 1 1/2 BILLION on the box since launch."
Stop skirting the issue- this has nothing to do with profitablilty and everything to do with sales, which the Gamecube and XBox are very close in.
Ninja: How can you just blow off western support? All you anime and manga fans seem to lose track of the fact that the west is just as important as the east. If western support wasn't so great, why is GTA propelling the PS2 into unimagined heights of success? Are you going to argue that GTA isn't important to Sony? What about games like Madden NFL, which sould millions upon millions of copies in less than a month. I suppose games like that aren't important at all, right?
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 06, 2003, 12:55:25 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 12:59:22 PM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on September 06, 2003, 12:59:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: rpglover
well the only game i have been looking forward to from eidos was the new legacy of kain game- all i have heard are good things about this game- it seems that they worked out a lot of the problems with the other games, and have headed into a more action-based affair in this game- i hope it works out for the better- but i would have liked to see that game for the cube
All we got was the crap ass Blood Omen 2, a long time after the PS2 and Xbox got theirs, we never got Soul Reaver 2. So seeing that we didn't get SR 2, why would we get the new one even if Eidos didn't put their head up their ass?
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 01:31:52 PM
I can't say that enough, really. As for the "problem" of having four GBA's, I have been able to purchase 3 original GBA's for the price of $20 each! Seriously, I found them at local pawn shops.
This is something to consider for all of you who are planning to purchase this title. The original GBA can be found VERY cheaply if you look in the right places. Heck, $20 a peice is cheaper than a new WaveBird.
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 06, 2003, 01:57:43 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 03:38:42 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 04:07:05 PM
Also my IQ is about 155. As I can see from the illiteracy of your recent posts, your IQ is the one to question. You want to throw down in an intellectual debate? Just bring it...
Now for you Mouse, since when did you become the barometer for public opinion. I actually believe that once the public ACTUALLY plays FF:CC, they might just be compelled to purchase and extra GBA for themselves, the game is literally that good.
Also, don't lecture me on public opinion. I work as a retail buyer, it's my job to know what public opinion is. I have been to the last 5 E3's and several CES shows as well. The line of people waiting to play FF:CC at this years E3 was a mile long.....
Educate yourselves fools...
I only speak the truth. You only speak B.S. Comeback in 6 months when you have ACTUALLY PLAYED FF:CC, then you can register your ignorant opinions.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 04:11:15 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 04:12:20 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 04:14:48 PM
And how am I the barometer for public opinion? Open your eyes and listen, man. If you'd do just that, you'd realise a LOT of people are pissed off about FF:CC needing GBA's. Hell, there was a huge debate/flame war in this very forum over that exact topic. Gabe from Penny Arcade can't even convince the masses that there's a REASON you need GBA's for the game. Maybe I'm not a very accurate "barometer" in your opinion, but any idiot could figure out that on the whole people don't like the idea. This isn't ABOUT how good the game is, or what people would think IF they played the game- it's public opinion RIGHT NOW. Jesus, and you're the one calling ME ingorant.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 04:22:09 PM
Come back in 6 months and we will see who is correct. I expect that FF:CC will move a large amount of GameCubes all on it's own.
Also, no one has even bothered to mention that the GBA connectivity issue is really more over blown, anti-Nintendo hype. Since when has there ever been a multi-player FF game to begin with? I know some people gripe over the need for GBA connectivity, but the real truth of the matter is, once they play the game, their opinions will change.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 04:27:04 PM
Post by: Mario on September 06, 2003, 04:27:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: AgentSeven
Like I said, there is something else on the way, other than the two games I mentioned. If I told you what it was, no one would believe me, so....
I would believe you.
Post by: PIAC on September 06, 2003, 04:42:17 PM
err uhm yeah... edios blows..
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 04:45:48 PM
Post by: PIAC on September 06, 2003, 04:48:18 PM
Post by: Boffo on September 06, 2003, 05:09:54 PM
http://www.ultimategamez.com/newspro/fullnews.cgi?newsid1062822174,21783,
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 05:11:39 PM
I REALLY hope they put Timesplitters 3 on the Gamecube.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 05:34:44 PM
Also, I hate to tell you this, but many, many people in here actually agree with me. I know thats hard for you to understand, but its the truth.
Finally, if I come off as aggressive, well that's just my nature. I just get sick of whiny ten year olds who think every peice anti-Nintendo proaganda is true. This level of ignorance truly frustrates me. People need to educate themselves. We are heading for dangerous times when people are willing to believe everything they read as fact. All I see in the forum is a bunch of hysterical kids who think Nintendo is going out of business, when nothing is further from the truth.
This is a Nintendo forum after all. You'd think that it would be filled with die-hard Nintendo fans. Instead we get "FanBoys" for other systems, who sit here and attack everything Nintendo does. These people are the same folks who stay on their computers 24/7 because basically, they have no lives and/or friends. It's really sad actually...
As for Square, think "remake"...
Post by: ThePerm on September 06, 2003, 05:35:52 PM
and there was an attack on Grey Ninja and Piac's intelligence.....which is like unforgivable.
and you couldnt be faryther from the truth Grey Ninja has a Nintendo tatoo for crying outloud. Abd you should see Piac's Room. What your probably doing is amalgamizing some other forum with ours. This is a rabid Nintendo fan board.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 05:36:10 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 05:46:34 PM
As for TS 2, reviews mean nothing. Reviews are easily bought. I acutally owned the game. This may be my opinion, but the cinema scenes were just plain stupid. I hated the fact that you could shoot someone in the head 3 to 5 times before they died. Not to mention the fact that some of it's levels
were extremely reminiscent of levels seen in other games. (Golden Eye especially.) Plus the character models never worked for me, everything was ugly and cartoonish. If this was such a good game, then why didn't sell more? It was discounted to $20 really fast.
Also, a lot of people don't know that Free Radical was actually Rare's garbage. Programmers on the low end of the totem pole. Martin Hollis was the real brains behind that operation, and he still works for Nintendo.
I have said my peace.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 05:49:25 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 05:54:48 PM
Reguardless of what you think, Free Rad, in my opinion, still sucks.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 06:11:05 PM
Linkified
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 06:17:28 PM
Post by: RABicle on September 06, 2003, 06:22:39 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 06, 2003, 06:24:24 PM
RABicle: Nothing...... yet. They have a mysterious game entitled "GameZero" in the works for the Gamecube which is reportedly going to be very original and extraordinary.
Post by: PIAC on September 06, 2003, 07:20:23 PM
i love nintendo, the only non nintendo console i own is the master system which i got a few months ago, i just dislike rabid fanboyism/treating Sony and Microsoft like 'the enemy' and such, its a bit silly. but eh what ever, im hardly going to change your opinion of me, nor i of you, better to just let it go
Post by: Perfect Cell on September 06, 2003, 07:35:13 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 06, 2003, 07:38:13 PM
I also love Sega, they were Nintendo's only true equal. NEC was great as was SNK. Heck, back in the day, Atari was a great company as well. (Before the Trammiel family took over.)
It's only $ony, and their "style over substance" philosophy that bothers me. They actually make me fear for the future of gaming in general. Their approach has acutally turned off an entire generation of gamers. Console and game sales are down and the market is flooded with sequels and look-alike titles. It seems that any no-talent company can make a game for PS1+PS2. I wont even get into the infamous $10 games for PS1. They were the most shameless rip off the public has ever seen. I won't even mention the shoddy quality of their hardware.
So in conclusion. I know I can seem a bit "rabid" when it comes to my anti-$ony bashing, and I don't mean to offend. Seriously. Maybe I'm a bit of a hypocrite, I actually own a ps2, even though it hasn't been used in months. Still, I can see the writting on the wall, and $ony's philosophy has been very damaging to gamers everywhere. I doubt that I will own a Ps3.
However, your'e right, this is a dead topic. I just wanted to clarify my position.
ps. that Master System was a great score
Post by: KDR_11k on September 06, 2003, 10:00:28 PM
Just because someone applies a common sense filter before taking information doesn't mean they're KGB spies (or hostile fanboys, for that matter). No normal person will love everything N does and hate everything that happens "against" them. You're applying a pro-N spin to absolutely everything you say and when someone disagrees with that you scream "Sony Fanboy!". If you ask me that's just having weak arguments and covering up for it.
My theory about Eidos is: They have a low and need to take action to satisfy stock holders. So they chose to drop support for something they never really supported and put a "This is the best thing to do!" PR spin on it. Doesn't seem like it worked out. Of course they hope more companies do the same so their stockholders get convinced it was actually a good thing.
Post by: Mario on September 06, 2003, 10:14:56 PM
Post by: Boffo on September 07, 2003, 06:03:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: AgentSeven
I hated the fact that you could shoot someone in the head 3 to 5 times before they died.
The best way to play Timesplitters 2 is one shot kill. It's much more fast-paced and devouring.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 09:52:31 AM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 11:57:23 AM
Anyway. I liked ICO's concepts, and the gameplay was fairly solid, but truthfully, after a while, it just just began to bore me.
Besides, that's only one fairly decent game. I know people will cite other $ony titles that they enjoyed, and truthfully I'd rather not get into that. However in the end I stand by my strong statement that $ony has always been about "style and marketing over substance." I've played so many of their games, it's hard to convince me otherwise. Pretty much all of the good games on PS1 and PS2 were made by third parties who had been making great games on other systems for years.
(Usually on a Nintendo system...)
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 12:04:46 PM
My information comes from my non-stop detective work. I can't stand how impossible it is to get the truth out of the video game industry. Almost every magazine and website out there is "owned" (not literally) by the publicity departments of the major video game companies. You hear only what they want you to hear. It's this process that convinces the ignorant masses that bad games are good and that "style over substance" is a sound concept. However the informed game knows better, and that's where I come in. Some of the info I hear is nothing more than rumor. However some of it is PURE FACT, the kind you won't see in the pages of EGM. I think dedicated gamers DESERVE to know the truth.
As for my opinions on Eidos. I think the poor sales of their games more that back up my earlier statements. Poor sales and mediocre reviews, both are solid proof of what I am saying in reguards to Eidos' lack of quality.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 12:09:51 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 12:13:36 PM
Mouse you need to get out more and stop being so judgemental. Just because I don't like $ony, doesn't mean that I only play Nintendo. How stupid are you anyway?
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 12:20:47 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 12:24:16 PM
By the way, did I mention that I own a PS1 and a Ps2? Where are you getting this hysteria from? You getting way out of hand. I have the right to say $ony sucks if I wan't to. This is a Nintendo site after all. Go to a $ony site and all you will hear is how much "Nintendo is Doomed" and how the X-Box sucks, even though it is superior to the PS2 in almost every way.
You need to calm down. I can say $ony sucks if I wan't to and I stand by that statement.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 12:30:59 PM
Anyway, I'd like to apologize for turning this thread into a flame war.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 12:36:13 PM
You can have the last word.
Post by: MeddmaWamm on September 07, 2003, 01:07:50 PM
$on¥
Micro$oft
I'm so clever.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 02:30:20 PM
Number 1- Sony gave power back to the 3rd parties. Before, Sega and Nintendo had 3rd parties in a vice and could force them to do anything they want. If you're so "knowledgeable", read Game Over and you'll find Nintendo was every bit as money hongering as Sony will every be, and then some. The NES was intended to be the Trojan Horse that allowed Nintendo to control almost every bit of people's lives. STOP painting Sony as the evil corporate entity and STOP painting Nintendo as the perfect picture of innocence. The whole reason Nintendo has been declining in business since the NES is because of comnig down on 3rd parties. This generation they've largely changed that, but all the way up to the N64 Nintendo had money on the mind (as every good business should). Sony took the power away from the 1st parties and gave some of it back to the 3rd parties. That's one of the main reason that the Playstation not only crushed the N64, but became the best selling console in history.
Number 2- Sony popularized the disc based medium. Nintendo had been very clingy towards cartridges and 3rd parties didn't like that. They were the better medium, but they also had less space than CD's, were larger than CD's, and more expensive than CD's. Nintendo ignored 3rd parties and went with a cartridge based console anyway. Sony, on the other hand, chose to go with CD's (WHICH it helped create, might I add), and 3rd parties flocked to the Playstation. Games were cheaper and larger than those on the N64 and this translated not only into better sales for developers, but more profit as well. If it weren't for Sony popularizing the use of discs rather than cartridges, we'd still be paying $60+ for games and developers would be losing a LOT of money.
Number 3- Sony brought gaming into the main stream. I know you see this as bad, and you have this grim depiction of the gamnig industry going down the tubes, but it was probably the best thing that ever happened to this industry. Sales skyrocketted, genres created, and prices dropped. Before the Playstationm only nerds and geeks played videogames. Now, almost everyon does. Sony made videogaming a part of the world culture, and cemented the idea of gaming in everyone's mind. You may hate Sony for this very reason, but you're just being elitist. Fact is, I've had more fun gamnig after the Playstation than before, and I've seen some of the most original and best videogames ever created happen post-1994.
All I've heard you spout is "$ony is teh evil!!!!!!!!! OMG!!" If it's a debate you want, it's a debate you've got. If you don't want to continue in this thread, PM me. I'm waiting for you to completely destroy me "intelectually". I thinkyou're just backing down.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 02:56:10 PM
Also the CD medium allowed for tons of crap developers to enter the market and flood it with piss poor games. That's the exact reason that console and game sales are slowly declining. The market is flooded wtih look-alike titles.
Finally, it was NINTENDO that brought games to the mainstream, and before them it was Atari. Get your facts straight. Maybe if you weren't a 10 year old you would know this. Peopl like you give $ony credit for inventing the wheel for God's sake, when all they really did was copy other peoples best ideas.
Seriously, many, many people agree with me when it comes to the evil forces of $ony. They are the only video game company that I hate. It sickens me that I must own a $ony system to play games made by my old, NES/SNES era, 3rd party favorites.
I'm done with this. Your ignorance is clear. As is the fact, that you seem to be on your computer 24/7. Which means to me, the you are probably a loner, w/ very few, if any, friends at all....
Post by: Rich on September 07, 2003, 02:59:31 PM
Oh and about Sony, I would say that they came into the gaming industry with the idea of style over substance and that good marketing would sell even the crappiest(sp?) games but recently they have been getting some good games out. Sony is a lot different than Nintendo though, Nintendo always said that its the games that count and they proved it when the NES sold better the sega's Next gen system but since Sony jumped into the market its all about whats cooler. In fact when I went to go buy Madden 2004 there were 2 ten year olds debating if they should get an Xbox or a PlayStation2 and the PlayStation2 won because the older kid said Halo wasn't that good and that PS2 was cooler. Thats what Sony has done to the industry.
Post by: Rich on September 07, 2003, 03:02:48 PM
Oh and about Sony, I would say that they came into the gaming industry with the idea of style over substance and that good marketing would sell even the crappiest(sp?) games but recently they have been getting some good games out. Sony is a lot different than Nintendo though, Nintendo always said that its the games that count and they proved it when the NES sold better the sega's Next gen system but since Sony jumped into the market its all about whats cooler. In fact when I went to go buy Madden 2004 there were 2 ten year olds debating if they should get an Xbox or a PlayStation2 and the PlayStation2 won because the older kid said Halo wasn't that good and that PS2 was cooler. Thats what Sony has done to the industry.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 03:03:35 PM
And while it's true the CD medium allowed a lot of crap developers to come in, it also allowed a lot of GOOD developers to come in who couldn't afford cartridges. Why should developers have to be rich just to make a game?
And Nintendo worked towards bringing videogames into the mainstream, but no one had actually done it yet until Sony entered the scene. Almost everybody will tell you that. Atari just plain destroyed the industry- if Nintendo hadn't come along, we'd all be playing arcade games, if that.
Look, I'm not saying sony's the greatest thing to ever happen to videogames- I AM a Nintendo fan. However, I also don't think they're out to rape our wives and eat our children, either. Why don't you stop attacking ME and actually come up with some good arguments- all you've done is insult me so far, and while I'm not free from it myself, I have abstained from it recently so we can have an HONEST debate. Stop trying to make me seem like a loser with no friends and acutally bring up some convincing reports. I fail to see how Sony is destroying videogames, and as of yet you haven't told me why I should feel that way. Stop being a hypocrite and convince me.
"Thats what Sony has done to the industry."
Sony didn't tell anyone to do anything- those kids argued upon their own free will and were'nt forced to.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 03:38:05 PM
Now you can feel good about yourself while you sit in front of your computer 24/7....
ps. have I said that $ony sucks and that their attitude towards gaming has really hurt the industry?
Most of the major developers agree w/ me....
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 03:41:03 PM
Never said $sony sucks, hm? I'll ignore the fact you changed your sig to that very same subject, as it was most likely in response to me, but you have to have forgetten this:
Quote
posted by AgentSeven Sun September 07, 2003 4:24 PM:
"You need to calm down. I can say $ony sucks if I wan't to and I stand by that statement."
Never said $ony is damaging to gaming?
Quote
posted by AgentSeven Sat September 06, 2003 11:38 PM:
Still, I can see the writting on the wall, and $ony's philosophy has been very damaging to gamers everywhere.
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 04:04:59 PM
However, the best argument was put out by Rich. What he said about those two children is painfully true. yes no one forced them to buy a Ps2, but they might as well. Advertising and hype works so well in this day and age, that a corporation can practically tell people what to think. It's really scary actually.
Thanks to Rich for his intelligent comments. I'm glad to see that at least one person understands my fears.
Mouse, I'm done now, seriously. Your starting to take this personally. Truthfully, I've just been giving you crap for the sake of teasing you. But seriously, this has gone to far. Im suprised this thread hasn't been closed.
ps. did I say that $ony sucks? (just having a little fun with you.)
enough already
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 04:09:25 PM
And I'm not denying that Sony has had negative effects on the industry, or even that their positive effects have outwieghed their engative effects (as I feel is the case with nintendo). However, hating Sony with every fiber of your body is the epitomy of stupid.
And by your love of Rich, I can now glean something important- anyone who doesn't agree with you, no matter how they've presented their opinions, is ignorant, stupid and automatically not worth your time. What if someone came in here in support of my case, would you bash them, too?
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 04:10:52 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 07, 2003, 04:16:49 PM
Post by: Kyosho on September 07, 2003, 04:21:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 07, 2003, 04:41:00 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 05:26:44 PM
They flood the market with look alike titles. Their approach to gaming is all about "style over substance," marketing over real gameplay. This is like Hollywood approach to movies.
They rip off other peoples best ideas (I.E. The PSX was colored Gray so that it would remind people of the NES, The Original Dark Cloud's main character looked suspiciously like Link, they claimed online gaming was the "way of the future," when actually the Dreamcast had done the online "thing" two years earlier, they aggressively courted all of Nintendo's best developers, knowing full well that the could ride the success of the SNES era 3rd party games,etc.....)
They told ridiculous lies about the so called "power of the ps2" and how it was supposedly "4 times more powerful than the Dreamcast." A lie that has been completely disproven. (Visit www.dcemulation.com for the story.)
They formed a partnership with Nintendo only to steal their best ideas and in hopes of eventually taking over Nintendo with a classic "hostile takeover" using stock they would receive in the partnership.
Worse yet, almost any no-talent developer can make a game for any $ony system. This situation reminds me A LOT of the years before the video game crash of 84. Where Atari allowed developers to flood the market with crap games, exactly what $ony is doing now. This attitude hurts gamers everywhere and it hurts the industry.
Nintendo was so concerned about the state of the industry that it started to have secret meetings with several of the worlds largest publishers. Essentially attempting to convince developers that the "$ony Philosophy" was bad for business. Several agreed, including Namco, Sega, Midway, EA, and even Square, which is 19% owned by $ony!
Then there's $ony's tendency to build shoddy products that break down very soon after the warranty expires. It's call "PLANNED OBSCELESCENCE." Now you may say that Nintendo does the same thing, but that would be untrue. Even though their have been some complaints about "disc read errors" on GC, they are NOTHING compared to the MOUNTAIN of complaints reguarding the PSX, PS1 and the PS2. Just do a search for "defective playstation" or "playstation complaints" on ANY search engine and you will see what I mean.
Man, I could go on for HOURS here with even more proof, but I won't. I'm actually really sick of talking to you Mouse, and I think you may even be a little mentally unstable. Seriously, I'm starting to feel sorry for you....
Enough already
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 05:29:46 PM
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news03/playstation.html
Post by: AgentSeven on September 07, 2003, 05:39:32 PM
http://www.psxextreme.com/scripts/news2/new.asp?newID=362
http://www.gamingworldx.com/features/PlayStation2DiscReadErrorDRERepairGuide.shtml
http://www.fragland.net/index.php?page=newsitem&nid=5308
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/16044.html
Post by: theRPGFreak on September 07, 2003, 07:54:24 PM
This is the RPGFreak over and out!
Post by: Mario on September 07, 2003, 08:17:13 PM
I bet all this ticks you off huh?
Quite simply, you're full of crap.
Post by: RickPowers on September 07, 2003, 08:25:20 PM
