Post by: Mylilpurplebox on August 05, 2003, 03:39:08 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 05, 2003, 03:47:00 PM
Post by: Darc Requiem on August 05, 2003, 04:48:35 PM
Darc Requiem
Post by: HiTmaN on August 05, 2003, 04:49:47 PM
Post by: NintendosFinest on August 05, 2003, 07:40:45 PM
Post by: joeamis on August 05, 2003, 08:33:19 PM
also make the C stick the same analog controller as the analog stick, which would also save lots of money.
and finally make the D-pad bigger, it's way too small
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 05, 2003, 08:47:46 PM
2) The GC controller has a tiny D-pad for the very same reason of saving a little money...They use the GBA d-pad
Post by: joeamis on August 05, 2003, 08:53:45 PM
why not make both analog sticks the same to save money instead
Post by: KDR_11k on August 06, 2003, 04:07:51 AM
[OT]IMO the current concept of fight controls is obsolete anyway. In SSBM you could just control by "intention" (i.e. upward attack = up+attack, forward attack = forward+attack), while in other games you have to use 10+ button sequences to do certain manoeuvres. I prefer the philosophy that a special isn't a super powerful move, but a move with a special purpose (e.g. attacking a large area below you).[/OT]
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 06, 2003, 06:15:42 AM
That's all I ask.
Post by: DRJ on August 06, 2003, 08:28:15 AM
Add two trigger buttons under the grips like on DC or XBox.
For the wireless verion make it have rumble features and be rechargable.
I really like the GCN controller, it is may favorite out of every other system ever. I just dont like Z, it is a pain in the ass to use.
Post by: joeamis on August 06, 2003, 03:47:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Add an assembly that allows exchange of the dpad and controlstick's position.
I prefer the philosophy that a special isn't a super powerful move, but a move with a special purpose (e.g. attacking a large area below you).[/OT]
the ability to exchange the dpad and analog stick would make it very expensive, and make it prone to breaking easily.
special= super powerful is what makes them different from regular attacks, and worth using.
they already have special= special purpose, ex. throws get opponent away from you when theyre super close, projectiles let you attack when they're far away.
Post by: nemo_83 on August 06, 2003, 09:04:49 PM
Or just take everything I just said and slap it on two wireless joysticks with tilt technologies in them. I dream of being able to play one hand again. Like on the N64.
/V....I can see the add now. An N that has a V higlighted on top of the second two lines in a N. So it is like seeing NV overlaping. Now that would be very sleek and cool.
Post by: HereticPB on August 06, 2003, 11:44:49 PM
HtPB
Post by: ThePerm on August 07, 2003, 07:26:07 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on August 07, 2003, 07:31:16 AM
What pisses me off the most about their choice to do that is that they ended up changing their GBA model and thus changing the D-pad. Thus there is no real good reason to have the crappy D-pad on the Cube when they have a different one for the GBA SP.
Here's my suggestion for Nintendo when they make their next controller: design it for EVERYONE instead of just themselves. Both the N64 and Gamecube controllers worked perfectly for Nintendo's own games but had some big problems for third party ones. Other developers use the controller too so designing something solely with Mario and Zelda in mind isn't a good idea. Therefore everything should be very generic so no fancy button arrangement and nothing should be just thrown on (Z button, D-pad). As much as I don't care for the PS2 controller it has a very flexible design that works well with most games. Nintendo should basically take the PS2 controller, swap the D-pad and left analog stick, give it the SNES D-pad, and give the buttons letter values instead of shapes. Essentially they should make another SNES controller but with modern refinements.
Post by: KDR_11k on August 07, 2003, 08:53:20 AM
And I doubt a button under C and D would be good to use. It'll more likely get in the way. I have a 3rd party pad which has just minor alterations to this area and feels uncomfortable because of that.
BTW, what games (except Capcom fighting games) don't work with the current layout?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 07, 2003, 09:34:05 AM
Well aside from fighting games I can't really think of any but it's still one type of game and I can't think of any games that don't worth with the standard four button SNES approach. If one design works on everything but one genre and the other design works with ALL genres then you should go with the second design.
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 07, 2003, 09:36:03 AM
Quote
Here's my suggestion for Nintendo when they make their next controller: design it for EVERYONE instead of just themselves. Both the N64 and Gamecube controllers worked perfectly for Nintendo's own games but had some big problems for third party ones. Other developers use the controller too so designing something solely with Mario and Zelda in mind isn't a good idea.
Heh. It strikes me as strange that you seem to think that a controller is only good with 1st party games.
I think that a console should be designed with general purpose in mind (as the GCN is), and developers should actually build their games to fit the console, rather than expect the console to be designed to fit them.Soul Calibur II works awesome with the GCN controller.
Capcom vs SNK doesn't.
Mario does!
Sonic doesn't.
Metroid Prime does!
Medal of Honor doesn't.
Noticing the trend here?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 07, 2003, 09:45:48 AM
Yeah but realistically you can't do that when you're not the market leader. If you're the struggling third place console maker you have to be just a little more accomodating to third parties so telling them to use your wacky design isn't as good of an idea as going with something they're going to be familiar with. When you're not number one your console isn't going to get as many exclusive games so you might as well make it reasonably port friendly. I'm just saying that such a design would be more developer friendly and thus more user friendly.
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 07, 2003, 10:11:33 AM
There's not a single game or genre that can't accomodate the GCN controller.
Post by: Ian Sane on August 07, 2003, 10:49:29 AM
Post by: vudu on August 07, 2003, 10:55:04 AM
Post by: The Omen on August 07, 2003, 08:50:59 PM
Post by: ThePerm on August 07, 2003, 10:38:59 PM
or pinball games.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 07, 2003, 11:53:34 PM
Standard.
Is a must.
As long as they have that, I don't really care what the controller looks like.
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 08, 2003, 03:34:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Grey if you find the GC D-pad comfortable you are either nuts or have very small thumbs.
As a matter of fact, I DO have Japanese sized hands... But I don't really feel that this is a big factor here, as I could handle the N64 and even the Dreamcast controller without too many problems. (Although I didn't like the Dreamcast controller much)
Post by: KDR_11k on August 08, 2003, 08:28:02 AM
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on August 08, 2003, 09:44:21 AM
Although, GC should stick with same controller to make it easier to playback...Besides, we all like the controller. Well most of us, any ways.
Post by: Ian Sane on August 08, 2003, 11:22:32 AM
Still I think you can see the general design pretty well. Assume that one top there are four L & R triggers similar to the PS2 controller.
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 08, 2003, 11:38:36 AM
I would also prefer the current shoulder button layout. Having 4 shoulder buttons is excessive, and ultimately... useless. I also prefer the regular C-stick to the second full sized analog stick. The stick's main function is camera controls, and a full sized stick would make it feel uncomfortable in its primary role.
Regarding the X, Y, A, and B button layout, I prefer the current layout. It just feels more natural.
I'm sorry Ian, but it looks to me like you made a pretty damn fine mockup of a PS2 controller. I REALLY do not like that controller. If you really do prefer it, just buy a PS2 -> GCN adaptor.
Post by: Ian Sane on August 08, 2003, 11:50:24 AM
Actually I HATE the PS2 controller. However I love the basis of it's design: the SNES controller. As a result I find the PS2 controller to be a good design in theory but severely flawed in execution. The PS2 D-pad for example is total crap. However by combining the ergonomic design of the Cube controller with the SNES buttons I think a great deal of the problems with that design are fixed. The analog stick is in the main position as it should be, the face buttons are more accomidating for multiple genres, and the D-pad is better.
As for the second analog stick the design is more for games that use the C-stick for more than just camera control. Games like Luigi's Mansion and Timesplitters 2.
Post by: Mylilpurplebox on August 08, 2003, 01:04:59 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on August 08, 2003, 01:32:08 PM
That's a great point. I mostly chose the Z buttons because it was easiest to add to the mockup and still look visible without an overhead view. Something like the N64 buttons would be great.
Post by: ThePerm on August 09, 2003, 04:22:24 PM
remember to copy the text and open a new window and past ethe url in there...geocities is lame you know
theres my button mockup for the bottom of the controller
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 09, 2003, 05:12:16 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 09, 2003, 06:45:13 PM
Post by: ThePerm on August 09, 2003, 08:35:37 PM
Post by: PIAC on August 09, 2003, 08:49:08 PM
Post by: PIAC on August 09, 2003, 09:12:21 PM
Post by: vroenis on August 10, 2003, 07:05:02 AM
call me keen, but i've read all of your responses, and on the surface i am seeing one main issue - some favour the snes/ps2 layout and idea (stress the idea) and others like the present gc design and ideas.
would it be totally unrealistic to manufacture two default controllers? of-course from a financial point of view this may be quite expensive, but it certainly would give gamers more options, more control over how they play games. add to that the great idea of making button configuration/assigning manditory for all games, this would put the console ahead of the game. an alternative perhaps would be to manufacture one default controller but commission a third-party hardware developer to design the other and release them at the same time.
though now a committed console gamer, i can't forget my roots back in pc land - i'm used to using almost all of my fingers for gameplay. i enjoy ts2 and other fps a lot on consoles, but the controller in place of a keyboard and especially mouse changes the gameplay hugely - enemies ai tends to be a little on the slower side (only a little, but noticeable) to compensate for the fact that you can only swing your weapon around as fast as the analogue stick permits. with a mouse, there are no excuses.
that being said, should the next controller have a totally different attitude towards control and start giving us back the use of our other fingers? playing with index fingers and thumbs is fun, but there could be something more - though this of-course could be something that sets consoles apart from pcs (don't worry, there's no turning back)
arg - seeing both sides too much...
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 11, 2003, 09:11:49 PM
I reckon the GC2 controller should be similar to the GC controller, except for two MAJOR changes:
-A stronger control stick with more tension in it. A LOT more tension.
and
-A bigger d-pad, obviously.
If Nintendo just addressed these two problems, then I will be happy.
But then I'm always happy
Post by: XBR on August 12, 2003, 03:41:40 PM
Post by: NintendosFinest on August 13, 2003, 08:21:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: XBR
I Have the greatest idea. Not only should Nintendo make a brand new controller for the N5, but they should make adaptors for all their old controllers to fit on the system somehow. Think about it, Myamoto wants games to be simple, so he could use the NES controller on his game. Square would want a Final Fantasy game, so they could use the SNES controller. First person shooters could use the N64 controller, cause it is the best FPS controller (GoldenEye). It would make everyone happy. O and you could use the SNES controller for Game Boy games.
Im sorry, but the N64 idea for FPS is a bad idea. Using the N64 controller for FPS would get you freakin owned in a game of timesplitters 2. It just has too many limitations. For example, with the N64 controller, you cannot move and aim at the same time.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on August 13, 2003, 06:04:16 PM
Post by: Pale on August 13, 2003, 11:24:22 PM
Post by: vroenis on August 14, 2003, 03:50:02 PM
sorry, but i still can't escape my pc roots - for some games - especially FPS, a mouse is crucial. i rented nightfire and cheated the hell out of it just to unlock all the multiplayer modes (because that's what i play FPS for) and sure, it's fun as is ts2, but hell-a-slow to aim and turn with. -bang! bang!- some dudes behind me, quick, better take three and half seconds to turn around before i get...
Post by: norebonomis on August 14, 2003, 07:11:36 PM
Post by: theasylumofthedamned on August 15, 2003, 05:36:49 AM
Also, what N needs to do is make thier buttons 100% analog like the PS2's, and even make the "Stick click" effect as seen in PS2 and Xobox controllers.
As well, they really need to strengthen the joysticks, especially the main stick. I've gone through four controllers already that have broken down in a little over a year. Too much Smash Bros
Post by: ThePerm on August 15, 2003, 09:35:57 AM
http://www.geocities.com/theperm_2000/controller2.html
(copy the link and open it in a new window)
omg best controllers ever.....
Post by: NintendosFinest on August 16, 2003, 09:56:58 PM
The GCN controller is cool, but some things need to be changed. I think nintendo should ditch the 4 bean shaped buttons and have six "regular "buttons on the face like the N64/Xbox. If Nintendo switches the left analog stick with the D-pad in " The Perm's " last controller picture on his site, I think it would be perfect.
They should also add another Z on the left, but make it comfortable like the N64's shoulders. ( like someone already stated ) Bigger D-Pad is a must. How about the return of the select button?
Post by: ThePerm on August 17, 2003, 12:15:41 PM
and i made the icon using paint and msgif animator
Post by: KDR_11k on August 19, 2003, 08:30:37 AM
An LCD on the controller would be more useful, think FFCC but without the GBA requirement...
Tilt sensors are pretty useless (according to a friend with a Freestyle Pro pad), if they were really good, don't you think MS would've put one into the XB controller?
I think the layout should remain fighting-unfriendly and they should sell a separate arcade stick.
Hm, what about headphone connectors on the controllers?
Perhaps a lightgun-feature included? Naah...
The front button layout should be one where you don't have to move your fingers much to reach all buttons. E.g. the C and Z button on the Sidewinder Pad are almost unreachable. And the button placement is less confusing on the GC. You know those situations when you accidentally slip into another line on the keyboard? Never happens with the GC!
I'm still thinking about ways to put the analog and digital control into the same place... Maybe some kind of analog pad, a disk-like thing that notices how far you push?
Post by: Molobert on August 19, 2003, 09:58:19 AM
-Slightly bigger hand grips than the gcn controller
-Select Button
-Identical analog sticks with the "click" feature
-No Z button, but 2 middle finger buttons on the back of the grips
-Bigger D-Pad of course
-Interchangeable locations for D-pad and Left analog stick (and maybe for the face buttons and right stick for FPS's)
-Same L and R as GCN's, but have the click feature be a "lock." That would be good for things like Metroid and Zelda bosses.
-Built in wireless capability and rumble
-A screen would also be good, but maybe too expensive
I think the best feature for the next controller could be full customizability. It would be cool to, for example, be able to remove your face buttons and buy ones with a different layout, or to buy different L and R buttons.
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on August 19, 2003, 01:13:59 PM
Post by: aoi tsuki on September 03, 2003, 07:06:40 PM
i also like ThePerm's idea of two buttons on the back, similar to the N64's Z button. It keeps the face of the controller less cluttered, and gives the player two more options. A "select" buttons, they'd be great for picking weapons (hold one down and scroll through weapons with the analog stick). The main problem is that no one expects buttons on the back of the controller. Most people who first grab the GC controller don't even noticed the Z button. If it's not on the face, it won't get used. Scratch that idea.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on September 04, 2003, 01:17:57 AM
Post by: steve on September 06, 2003, 05:38:11 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on September 06, 2003, 09:19:00 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 06, 2003, 10:37:38 PM
