Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Kairon on December 21, 2016, 02:13:06 AM
Title: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Kairon on December 21, 2016, 02:13:06 AM
Figured I'd ask an "Elephant in the room" type question!
Basically, we all know the Switch is using a modern NVidia graphical architecture (it's friggin' Vulkan compliant guys!), and we know that major industry game engines like Unreal Engine 4 and Unity are both onboard for Switch support. On the other hand, I think things are shaping up that it's in no way going to be a brute strength hardware powerhouse.
Then we throw in Nintendo's historical difficulty in creating a platform that third-parties enjoy and... well, do you think they'll make any progress on the switch?
I mean, YES, we MIGHT get a Skyrim port, there's rumors (grain of salt alert!) of a Dark Souls port... but are those false signals or wishful thinking?
Personally, I think the Switch will make significant strides in making it TECHNICALLY easier for third parties to support it. Modern game engine support will have a very noticable effect on third-party support I believe.
HOWEVER, I have very tempered expectations on any idea of a 3rd party resurgence overall.
I think we seem to have a lot of third parties excited to port older games, which is nice but we've seen historically is not likely to set anything on fire (see: Wii U year-old ports).
Also, I feel like we're seeing lots of third parties "testing" the waters again with token games, which again is not going to convince anyone of a real sea change here. We might get a single token Madden from EA, we might get NBA 2k17, we might get a bone thrown at us from others...
For all the excitement, I think there's a ton of inertia the Nintendo Switch will struggle against with third-parties entrenched into a mindset that ignores the Nintendo ecosystem. This will probably be especially prevalent in the mega-budget/super-premiere parts of the industry where companies are making huge bets years ahead of time and can't afford to get distracted by yet another platform as they near the finish line.
And of course, there's the question of whether Nintendo can create a platform where third parties can sell games, or at least certain types of games, or where third parties can find a non-risky way to survive. A major part of changing this issue will probably be just Nintendo trying to create as much of a Switch userbase as possible, building as much of a foundation for the platform, and pricing the hardware correctly in the market to create both demand and accessibility.
However, I DO think things are getting better. Launch is always exciting, modern game engines will make a significant difference, the hardware's concept could very well prove a strong lure, and hopefully indies are as excited about the platform as we are!
I think the most tantalizing hope, which may or may not prove true, is that the handheld world of developers comes to the Switch. This is sort of what's left of the mid-tier third party segment, and also part of what's left of the niche Japanese third party devs segment (that said, also some of the PS4 segment really). It'd be great if all the projects that drove passion for the PSVita and the Nintendo 3DS came to the switch without reserve in the future. And it'd be great if the titans of this segment also made the switch their new home.
I, for one, will be extremely excited if they announce Monster Hunter for the Switch. That game has a very significant following, and it's amazingly proven the ability to move its fanbase from the Sony ecosystem to the Nintendo 3DS.
I'm also very excited to hear that Dragon Quest XI is coming to the Switch! That's a pretty big vote of confidence from Square Enix and a major public signaling to consumers that they can expect Japan's premier RPG on the Nintendo system.
Ultimately, I think we'll see real progress here, true progress, but also slow progress with lots of inertia to overcome and the ball in Nintendo's court to prove that a game-hungry, game-buying userbase for third parties exist. I'm basically expecting things to get better... but at a rate that might get Nintendo back to equity, assuming everything continues going well, over the course of six years, not two.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 21, 2016, 02:23:32 AM
Honestly, I expect Japanese Developers wanting to support a handheld/console to support the Switch with no problems, and so I expect that market of game to be strong.
When it comes to Western Developers I think they will support it with Ports only if it is relatively painless to support the system. I expect any Western Developer that can easily just do a digital release for the Switch may support it. But I realistically don't expect much support. 3rd parties know that this is market that you only have to support 2 game systems. They may just realize the reward for supporting Nintendo is not worth it.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: ejamer on December 21, 2016, 07:15:54 AM
Much like Spak-Spang, I don't expect any meaningful support from major developers outside of Japan. Indie developers will probably provide the usual digital-only games as long as porting is easy, but even there it's hardly a sure bet.
Before Nintendo can attract third parties to Switch they need to prove that the system: * allows porting code from XBox and PlayStation with very little effort, * has a massive install base, * has an audience that will buy third-party games, essentially without any regard for quality
If any one of those points misses then it will be the same old excuses about support not really being worth their while. Even if all of the points come true, I think that most third parties will be skeptical about supporting Switch and not make it part of their core business plan.
Can't really blame them though: the bridges between Nintendo and third-party developers have long been shaky (and often alight). It's easy to say: "this time it will be better," but why would third parties bother making a change unless their success is a sure thing? It doesn't, and they won't.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: ShyGuy on December 21, 2016, 10:32:32 AM
Japanese third parties will come to the Switch, and that will attract some people who like the kind of Japanese games Nintendo handhelds get, but want to always play on the TV.
Indies will support the Switch, Nintendo has relationships and a reputation with Indies from the Wii U.
The big boys, we will see. I'm sure we will get stuff at first if nothing else. I suspect more support from Ubisoft, Activision and Warner Bros than EA and 2K.
We may see some PC focused developers give it a try due to the new Nvidia platform.
Mobile publishers will give it a try as well, depends on how much Nintendo allows F2P gaming on the Switch.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: UncleBob on December 21, 2016, 11:45:05 AM
No.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Soren on December 21, 2016, 12:01:57 PM
As discussed on RFN, the realistic best case scenario is the Switch snatches developers from the Vita once that system is finally laid to rest.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 21, 2016, 12:19:31 PM
Best case scenario is it's the GameCube. Easy enough to port to from the other consoles with enough of an install base to get a lot of, but by no means all, multiplatform releases.
Worst case is it's the Wii U all over again, not as easy to develop for as was initially claimed with third parties abandoning the platform nearly completely after poor sales of early titles.
My honest guess is it ends up right around the middle of those two, where it does just well enough to get some amount of support, but still misses an awful lot.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Kairon on December 21, 2016, 12:36:48 PM
Best case scenario is it's the GameCube. Easy enough to port to from the other consoles with enough of an install base to get a lot of, but by no means all, multiplatform releases.
Worst case is it's the Wii U all over again, not as easy to develop for as was initially claimed with third parties abandoning the platform nearly completely after poor sales of early titles.
My honest guess is it ends up right around the middle of those two, where it does just well enough to get some amount of support, but still misses an awful lot.
Man I'd LOVE to have a GameCube situation on my hands here! Heck, even an N64 situation!
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Evan_B on December 21, 2016, 01:05:48 PM
No.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: nickmitch on December 21, 2016, 01:49:52 PM
Not really.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 21, 2016, 01:53:00 PM
Man I'd LOVE to have a GameCube situation on my hands here! Heck, even an N64 situation!
Ok lets not go that far. The Wii U's third party support wasn't great but still better then the N64, which easily has the worst third party support of any Nintendo system. The Wii U at least had a steady stream of good indie titles on the eShop to make up for the lack of retail games while the N64's third party support was nearly non-existence everywhere with maybe one decent title from them once in a blue moon.
Of course on the issue of the Switch support, it 100% falls on how well Nintendo can drive up the install base during the first year. This is the reason why Nintendo's making a hybrid in the first place because they know they can't fully support 2 systems at the same time anymore and know third parties aren't going to give them the time of day unless they jump through hoops, something Nintendo isn't going to do. Third parties were getting ready to drop 3DS support for fucks sake after it's first few months, despite the fact the DS was a monster, which is one of the reasons Nintendo dropped it's price so much so soon. They know unless their system is successful third parties, even the Japanese ones that should be one board will cut them at a moments notice.
Right now as others have said, I'd at least expect the system to be a Japanese games paradise unless Nintendo truly fucks something up in that market. Assuming the price it's too damn high or they **** up the lineup, the Switch should easily dominate that market. Hell if Nintendo has a strong enough lineup, don't be surprised if the Switch in it's first year surpasses the PS4's lifetime total in Japan, which should make Japanese third parties port everything they can, assuming it's easy enough to do.
The West should at least give us a great supply of indie titles since even the Wii U managed to get a lot of them. Retail third party support will probably be crap even if the system is easy to port since the market for violent realistic dudebro games that most of the major Western third parties continue to pander to is perfectly happy with what they've been getting on Playstation and Xbox since 2001. Even if we get some ports early on these games will probably sell like **** on the Switch since the audience for them has no reason to jump from Microsoft and Sony. Now if Breath of the Wild is huge it might create a decent audience for open world games that will make third parties willing to port these to the Switch but I don't see something like Splatoon building an audience for Call of Duty even if the Switch version of Splatoon ends up being a 10 million plus seller for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 21, 2016, 03:39:17 PM
I don't because I feel there are already excuses being made. The rumoured power doesn't sound all that hot. Like maybe good enough ish but at this point we need a clear "this baby can run any PS4 game no sweat" not wishy-washy nonsense. Wishy-washy means underpowered. Now this is a portable system so that's a pretty good excuse for inferior specs but that isn't going to improve support. Nintendo never really seems to fully fix problems, they just kind of do half ass solutions that make things less worse.
I think what Nintendo needed before going hybrid was a generation of good console third party support and then they would have enough clout to get around inferior specs on a hybrid. Well the timing for that was the Wii U and that was totally botched so now what? Nintendo just expects everyone (devs, retailers, customers) to cut them slack and make exceptions for them. You need clout to get people to do that. Nintendo hasn't had that kind of clout in 20 years yet they never accommodate others and expect everyone to jump through hoops for them. Someone else going with outdated specs to do a hybrid could probably expect third parties to accommodate them. Who is going to accommodate Nintendo, particularly when they've never had less clout than right now?
The concept is cool and could sell but it will need games. But third parties won't bring the game until it is a success. I think the only way third party support becomes good is if the Switch can sell really well entirely on the strength of the first party output for the first year or so. Imagine if the Wii had the technical chops where ports were possible what its sales frenzy would have attracted.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: pokepal148 on December 21, 2016, 03:40:48 PM
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Mop it up on December 21, 2016, 04:42:21 PM
Too early to tell. The Wii U support sounded promising before it launched, but we all know how that went. The current situation feels eerily similar.
I'm certainly not expecting much support. I'm expecting it to go like Wii U, a few key third-party titles in the first year, and maybe a few here or there, and then that's it.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 21, 2016, 04:51:30 PM
The concept is cool and could sell but it will need games. But third parties won't bring the game until it is a success. I think the only way third party support becomes good is if the Switch can sell really well entirely on the strength of the first party output for the first year or so. Imagine if the Wii had the technical chops where ports were possible what its sales frenzy would have attracted.
Well that's technically what the Switch can be if things go well. Unlike the Wii, all reports at least show the Switch is capable of running the kind of engines third parties are making their PS4/One/PC games on. Even though it's lacking on power, it should at least be scale-able which the Wii never was. I mean look at right now how a lot of Japanese third parties make their games for the PS4 and Vita, so realistically the Switch shouldn't have issue getting ports from Japanese third parties at least.
The wild card is the West which is way more bearish on Nintendo and never even bothered to support their handhelds even when the DS was a monster outside of pure shovelware ****. So even if the Switch can run these games and is a success, I'm not sure if Western third parties will even care. Which is kind of the reason Nintendo has no problem going with weaker hardware to save money in the first place since they know Western third parties are no guarantee to support them even if they tried to match Microsoft and Sony in pure specs alone while their fellow Japanese don't care as much and will be forced to support them if the system is a success because of the handheld nature of the device.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Stogi on December 22, 2016, 04:54:16 AM
The 3DS is 6 years old and it's sold out this christmas. If Nintendo can successful merge it's console and handheld markets, I don't see a scenario where third-parties avoid the Switch.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: ThePerm on December 22, 2016, 05:22:33 AM
Yes and No. I don't expect third parties to fall in love with Nintendo. That is unless full disclosure this will be up-gradable and already has multiple SKUs. I'm ignoring all rumors on process power, because their probably bullshit. The RAM thing though is more likely. This system might skimp on RAM. However, that might not be as much of a problem on a cart based system.
Developers might treat this well. They might see this as the powerful mobile they've been waiting for all these years. If Mario Kart is a pack in with the system then this system will sell itself. Nintendo might have another Wii on its hands. Mario Kart is a great game, but could become a killer app if it's both portable and demonstrable. The little joycons sound clunky now, but if you're at a party with 2 pro controllers and a joycon then you have a fun party. Smash Bros, Sould Calibur, Tekken, and some shooting game. Then you have an amazing party.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Adrock on December 22, 2016, 09:50:59 AM
Closer to 3DS level support than Wii U. Switch will get some but no where near all major third party multiplatform games.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 22, 2016, 10:15:34 AM
No, I expect you to die.
Oh sorry, wrong question.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Evan_B on December 22, 2016, 10:47:55 AM
I just wanted to drop by and say that, yes, this thing is going to be a Japanese games machine. That's all I can hope for.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2016, 11:48:24 AM
There's hope that the sort of third party games that appeared on the 3DS will also show up on the Switch. But one wrinkle I can see in this is the Switch is an HD system. The 3DS was more Cube/Wii level so it was still a cheaper system to develop for so we got smaller Japanese games that used to be commonplace on consoles but are mostly just on handhelds now. The Switch will cost more to develop games for so can those third parties afford to support it or will development be like AAA console games where each game is so expensive to make that everyone plays it safe because one dud will kill off a company? Is there a threat that those games may move to phones simply because the development requirements for a Switch game are just too expensive?
I can see the Switch being not powerful enough to get console games and too expensive to develop for to get handheld games. There's a risk in being the middleground and not working well for anyone.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Stogi on December 22, 2016, 12:01:01 PM
Unless you're going for an AAA title, Ian, I don't see HD gaming being restrictive. You have several indie developers making games for PC and the threshold hasn't stopped them yet.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Khushrenada on December 22, 2016, 12:02:42 PM
But one wrinkle I can see in this is the Switch is an HD system. The 3DS was more Cube/Wii level so it was still a cheaper system to develop for so we got smaller Japanese games that used to be commonplace on consoles but are mostly just on handhelds now. The Switch will cost more to develop games for
Just because a system is capable of HD graphics doesn't mean a game released on it has to be. Hello, Minecraft. And Indie developers on Wii U and the other consoles.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: UncleBob on December 22, 2016, 12:22:06 PM
I think a better question is: Do I care if third parties support the Switch?
Not counting Indie developers (who are great and will generally put their games onto any platform that can run them), meh. Except Skylanders, if there's even going to be a 7th game.
I'm part of the problem, sure - but I haven't bought much for third party on the Wii U (Skylanders aside, Need For Speed was a *lot* of fun. Shame EA had to be dicks about it.) or the 3DS.
I buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games. Third party games that come along are a bonus, not a necessity.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: KeyBilly on December 22, 2016, 12:55:39 PM
Everything you said makes sense, Kairon. The 3DS was my favorite platform of this generation, and I expect that support to follow, with various console style games from big developers to see if it is worth it for them. If Nintendo goes for the rumored $250 price point and actually makes enough of the hardware, the install base should be large from the first year. The question is if there are enough people who are willing to take a hit in graphics and AI, plus lose their current XBOX/PS online system of choice, to have portable gaming. If not, then it isn't much of a loss in my opinion, although it hurts the messaging that the Switch is a console first. NVidia has done the work to make downports as easy as possible, and the Indie games that don't need much power anyway should come over.
In other words, I expect great third party support, but not a replacement for a PC or PS4.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Mop it up on December 22, 2016, 06:03:13 PM
I think a better question is: Do I care if third parties support the Switch?
I do, specifically because of what the Switch is. There are a lot of things that I could and already do buy on PS4 or Xbox One that I'd really love to have in that handheld form factor.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2016, 07:59:42 PM
Do I care? Yeah, I'm pretty vocal about wanting good third party support.
But it's beyond my personal preferences. If the third parties don't come on board we're probably looking at another Wii U style flop. Nintendo can't afford that. If this is another Wii U Nintendo is probably finished as a videogame system maker. Even uniting their handheld and console development together I am not confident that Nintendo alone can carry a system and have it sell beyond the Nintendo hardcore, which is pretty much the Wii U userbase which we know is too small.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Khushrenada on December 22, 2016, 08:34:07 PM
I think a better question is: Do I care if third parties support the Switch?
Not counting Indie developers (who are great and will generally put their games onto any platform that can run them), meh. Except Skylanders, if there's even going to be a 7th game.
I'm part of the problem, sure - but I haven't bought much for third party on the Wii U (Skylanders aside, Need For Speed was a *lot* of fun. Shame EA had to be dicks about it.) or the 3DS.
I buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games. Third party games that come along are a bonus, not a necessity.
I agree with this to an extent. The truth is there are plenty of 3rd party games I don't care about. I haven't bought a PlayStation or Xbox to play any 3rd party games that I'm missing out on with the Nintendo consoles I own because the vast majority don't interest me and I've got plenty of games to play and replay on with my Nintendo systems.
However, I'm not opposed to 3rd party offerings and have tried and bought various games ranging across a broad spectrum from Just Dance to Skies of Arcadia: Legends to Rock Band and all other manner of different experiences. Sometimes the game is lackluster like NHL Slapshot Wii and sometimes the games can be one of my favorite experiences on a system like Rhythm Thief for the 3DS. My DS experience would have been a lot poorer not having the 5 Ace Attorney games on it. (If you include Investigations.) One of the few games I was playing with any regularity during my lapsed gamer phase in the middle Wii years was Rock Band 2. The Rock Band craze was a big deal for a while and I'm very glad it was released on a Nintendo console. At it's height, it felt bigger than Wii Sports ever got. It was pretty disappointing when Rock Band 4 skipped the Wii U. That's the kind of 3rd party support I care about.
I'm not interested in first person shooters and most M rated games. So, if Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall and whatever other big shooters stay with the PlayStation and Xbox systems, that's fine by me. I don't see them ever becoming popular enough on a Nintendo console anyways. In the past 15 years, PS and Xbox have cultivated that type of gameplay and style and made it a part of their brand identity just like Nintendo's identity is bright colorful platformers with Mario/Kirby or adventure games with Zelda/Metroid. PS and Xbox have built an online infrastructure and culture to support those games and that style and it's one I'm not interested in.
If you remove all of that, what are you left with? Sports games? Sure, it'd be nice to see those on a Nintendo console. I don't see why they shouldn't appear on one but I think that ties in a bit to online play and communities and Nintendo's online policies / capabilities are different from the competition to prevent the user base for those games from wanting to make a switch from PS/XB to Nintendo for those titles. I personally don't care that much about sports games so, again, I'm not that bothered if they don't appear on a Nintendo console but I know others who would like them and, image-wise, I don't think it looks great to a consumer that something with a broad appeal like sports games aren't available on a Nintendo console.
I find the vast majority of third party stuff I like are usually games that are/were exclusive to Nintendo consoles or fit the Nintendo brand better. I know people criticized Ubisoft when they made a statement about determining which games they think would sell on Wii U like Just Dance instead of releasing something like Watch Dogs or Zombie U but I think they're right. The Harvest Moon series fits in well with this idea and Doom does not. Rock Band and Guitar Hero with their peripherals and gameplay matched ideas like DK Bongo Drums and Microphone games. Plus, those games offered pretty much the same experiences as the games appearing on the competition's consoles. Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars, despite being a good game according to those who played it, did not sell well. It wasn't what fans of the series from Xbox and PlayStation wanted nor was it what Nintendo fans wanted with a GTA game finally appearing on a Nintendo system. I think that's a factor why some of third party games sell well and some do not and why we some third party games are still being released on Nintendo systems and some are not.
I'd be happy with GC level third party support but what I'd love to see is DS level support. You may not have gotten games like Assassin's Creed or Destiny on the DS but you did get a lot of new and exclusive titles and experiences. The DS leading into the 3DS started becoming an RPG powerhouse. The World Ends With You, Radiant Historia, Dragon Quest IX. We got the Ace Attorney games. We got companies embracing the DS capabilities with Pac-Pix, Trauma Center, Feel the Magic along with other experiments embracing the less hardcore gamers in Sudoku Gridmaster, Korg DS-10, Cooking Mama, and other such ideas. Sadly, third parties don't seem that interested in making different game experiences like this anymore. Too much money tied up in AAA budget games to risk trying a bunch of smaller budget titles. As such, I don't think there will be a huge shift in third party releases as the hardcore will still want their AAA games on the more powerful console unless portability is really that big a factor for people. The knock on the PSP was that the games for it were basically the same as the console version and that didn't help the PSP in its quest to dominate the handheld market. It was the new games and ideas that were a big factor in the DS's success along with courting the casual market by means of those new ideas like Brain Age and Nintendogs. So, I'm just not sure the portability advantage of the Switch is going to be that big of a factor either in making more people buy third party games on a Nintendo console.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 22, 2016, 08:49:39 PM
I find I don't want to play any M rated games, and many T rated games don't interest me either. I have a PS4 and I am shocked at how few games truly interest me. I hate the direction the market is going, and I wish I didn't have a PS4 now, because I would consider getting a Switch if I wasn't already invested in the hardware of the PS4.
I want 3rd party support for others, but for myself I personally don't care. The fact is, I have VERY, VERY limited resources for games now. If I just bought only 1st party Nintendo games, I could barely afford those games. This means although there are games I would love to play, I will miss out on most of them. The Wii U is a system that has several great games from Nintendo that I missed out on, and I can look at the game I am playing on the PS4 and what I could play on the Wii U and I tell you, I would rather be playing the Nintendo games.
I know many people want Nintendo to change and grow and mature with the market. I don't. I see this market already providing the Teen and Mature rated games, and very few are offering the experiences and quality Nintendo is offering.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Adrock on December 23, 2016, 05:26:30 AM
Gaming for me is very limited these days so I'm typically content with Nintendo's first party offerings. If I wasn't, I'd have a PS4 by now. That said, I care in the sense that support needs to be good enough to get the very specific third party titles I care about. For example, I'll probably never buy Mass Effect, but I would need EA's support to get NBA Jam. I'll probably never buy Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, but I need Capcom's support to get Resident Evil. Of course, these companies can always release certain titles on Switch so there's a chance I get the ones I want. That's a crapshoot though. I can't rely on that so it's just easier if the platform is attractive enough for third parties to think supporting it is worthwhile. I would like to see support be a given rather than something that needs to be considered. Even if I personally don't buy all the games, the expectation and understanding that third party games will be released on a platform I own is comforting and makes any platform stronger. I want that for Switch; I don't think I'm going to get it.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Soren on December 23, 2016, 03:22:53 PM
I hope there's a way Nintendo can convince third party devs to support Switch not as a 3rd console option, but as the handheld/true mobile alternative. There's no way hypothetical Switch versions of games like Doom or Resident Evil 7 would look better or maybe on par with their PS4/XB1 brethren, but maybe the idea of taking games like that on the go and still have a decent graphical quality is enticing enough for publishers and developers to allocate resources to Nintendo versions.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Mop it up on December 23, 2016, 05:44:47 PM
For me, the main kind of third-party support I'd like to see is the kind it's more likely to get: Japanese developers. Forget Skyrim, the late ports from PS4 I want to see are games like Final Fantasy XV, Dragon Quest Warriors, Tales of Zestiria / Berseria, etc. Those are the current games on the PS4 that interest me.
It's underperforming badly, and Vicarious Visions has been sent to the Destiny mine.
Interesting. I thought the franchise was successful enough that one bad year wouldn't kill it. Or did Superchargers not do well either?
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Stogi on December 23, 2016, 07:39:03 PM
Third-party games that I'm interested in are the type I never see coming. Games like Viewtiful Joe, Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, or Wonderful 101 you don't expect. These are new IPs that make a console cycle unique.
But then there's games that make a console cycle feel whole; racing games, sports games, and fighting games are my most important genres. Nintendo has their take on each genre, but they don't make NFS, FIFA, or Mortal Kombat. And a console needs those titles in order to complete a spectrum of choice.
So yeah, I care.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: UncleBob on December 23, 2016, 09:15:12 PM
For me, the main kind of third-party support I'd like to see is the kind it's more likely to get: Japanese developers. Forget Skyrim, the late ports from PS4 I want to see are games like Final Fantasy XV, Dragon Quest Warriors, Tales of Zestiria / Berseria, etc. Those are the current games on the PS4 that interest me.
It's underperforming badly, and Vicarious Visions has been sent to the Destiny mine.
Interesting. I thought the franchise was successful enough that one bad year wouldn't kill it. Or did Superchargers not do well either?
Trap Team did admirable, but hit a few soft spots with players (*lots* of toys, gated content was worse than usual, no PVP, all items didn't get a release in most areas, then traps were totally nerfed to virtually nothing in the next title).
Superchargers did pretty poorly. Coming off Trap Team, a lot of folks did not want or care for the vehicles, a lack of commitment for future support of vehicles, a really short game, a lot of variants, and short-shipping primary characters really hurt the game overall.
Imaginators is facing all that, is the 6th year of the franchise, and, really folks are tired of TTL.
I am on the fence if Sky7 will happen.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: rygar on December 24, 2016, 09:47:58 AM
I'm not concerned about particular titles per se, but I'm really hoping for a broader coverage of genres. I'm a little surprised at some of the characterizations of FPS games. I get it when it comes to multiplayer, but the story-campaigns to me offer participatory (popcorn style) cinematic experiences that I can't really get elsewhere.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Agent-X- on December 24, 2016, 11:12:25 AM
I'm not sure I understand the rationale from those who don't care about any third party support. I relate with the sentiment that there are very few if any games on PS4 or XB1 that really interest me or would warrant the cost to play, I also understand that I don't follow those platforms closely nor do I bother to really look at those games much. I had plenty of good times, however, playing 360 online with friends, so at least I understand how irrational I would be if I were to say I don't care for third party support. I think I would take more interest in those games if they suddenly shared shelf space next to Mario and Donkey Kong. I'm more likely to download the demo for those games when I'm given a download button than when I'm stuck behind a $300 barrier.
Besides, the very best third party games came about from competing with Nintendo's games. /Fact
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Enner on December 25, 2016, 08:31:29 PM
The Switch has a shot in being the prime console for most Japanese and indie games.
The Nintendo Switch has a very fine and fragile needle to thread in being a system that essentially combines the libraries of the 3DS, Vita, and Wii U. Separately, those systems' line ups are lacking in some area or aspect. Together, they are an appealing alternative or compliment the PS4 and XB1 (I'm running on the assumption that even the cheapest, capable gaming PC is a significantly more daunting undertaking than the PS4 and XB1 for many people.).
Nintendo can mess up threading this needle in a dozen different (and very Nintendo-like) ways, but it is their best shot (IMO) and one that is all their's to aim for.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: ThePerm on December 25, 2016, 09:26:16 PM
I wonder what tools nVidia will provide to make it easy to port Android games over? One thing I was reading about it was it doesn't use mobile shaders like other mobile consoles. They suck, thank goodness.
When I was working on my Eternal Darkness homage moving things over to Ouya sucked because of the lighting and shader changes.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Mop it up on December 30, 2016, 02:53:51 PM
Trap Team did admirable, but hit a few soft spots with players (*lots* of toys, gated content was worse than usual, no PVP, all items didn't get a release in most areas, then traps were totally nerfed to virtually nothing in the next title).
Superchargers did pretty poorly. Coming off Trap Team, a lot of folks did not want or care for the vehicles, a lack of commitment for future support of vehicles, a really short game, a lot of variants, and short-shipping primary characters really hurt the game overall.
Imaginators is facing all that, is the 6th year of the franchise, and, really folks are tired of TTL.
I am on the fence if Sky7 will happen.
Ah, I didn't hear about those complaints, but it makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like they really tried to monetise the series more than I realised. It seemed like the starter packs were still selling out around the holidays, though I don't know how many were produced, nor how many figures and stuff were selling.
It's a shame they're running it into the ground (though not surprising since it's Activision). I've recently gotten into the series meself and they are fun games in their own right.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Evan_B on December 30, 2016, 03:59:10 PM
As I'm sure many have noted, the third party complaints already seem to be emerging about the Switch. So I'm just going to assume this will be the standard Nintendo affair with the potential to get Vita games and maybe some 3DS coverage, although the system better have variable pricing if that's the case.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: ThePerm on December 30, 2016, 08:59:51 PM
What third parties are complaining?
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Agent-X- on December 31, 2016, 12:51:13 AM
I see nothing on my radar.
There was a little noise regarding a former Ubisoft graphics developer commenting on the supposed "leaked specs" but he's not in "the know" and doesn't even claim to be in "the know." His only speculation is that based on the specs we've all heard about, he doesn't think straight ports from the PS4 will be a thing and that the Switch's prospects of third-party support are not looking good since the 360 already saw its last batch of big releases.
Take it with a grain of salt. Nvidia has gone on the record as saying straight ports from current generation consoles will be easy.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: ThePerm on December 31, 2016, 03:33:00 AM
Apparently, Vulkan is a lot more powerful on weaker hardware than competing API libraries. The only thing I see holding back Switch is the rumored RAM. Those are rumored though. If it's 8GB this will be a Super Nintendo generation, if it is 4GB this will be a Wii generation. As far as third party goes. That is not accounting for possible future upgradability.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Kairon on December 31, 2016, 12:48:25 PM
Dang, I have absolutely ZERO hope that this will be 8 GB. Maybe a Switch "Pro" in about two years? But not right now anyways.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: ThePerm on December 31, 2016, 06:20:18 PM
The thing about the Wii was it was really different and had a lot of support early on. But eventually the lack of power became a problem. It was a decent generation generally, though I preferred Gamecube and Wii U.
If I were Nintendo here is what I would do. I would release the regular SKU for $200-250 and then have a more powerful and more expensive SKU for $350-400. 2 years later I create an even more powerful SKU and lower the price of the original sku to $150, the second to the regulars price range and then the new one to the second more powerful ones old price range. This KILLS the competition's plans and also brings games over that need powerful hardware.
I look at a game like Doom(4), and while I wasn't too jazzed about it, it is a graphical powerhouse and a benchmark. PS4 and XboxOne have this game, but I don't see idSoftware moving the game to switch if it only has 4GB of RAM. Unless nVidia money hats them. And I don't necessarily mean it has to be that game specifically. It's just do third parties want to take any time or effort to port games anymore? However, I have to say: If we do see Doom, that means we're getting everything.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: Soren on January 01, 2017, 09:16:03 PM
However, I have to say: If we do see Doom, that means we're getting everything.
I would say we won't be getting everything. There's just the potential to get everything. Some companies just won't care to support Switch.
Title: Re: Do You Expect Third Parties to Support the Switch?
Post by: ThePerm on January 01, 2017, 10:39:05 PM
Well Doom would be an example of a skittish developer jumping on board. If a skittish developer jumps on board, then likely others will too. I may be over superlative in that regard, but Doom is like a canary in a coal mine. Or a cockroach in a cheese factory? Having support from id is a good indicator of overall healthy third party support.
