Post by: mouse_clicker on July 25, 2003, 08:59:22 PM
4 kids stole the video and released it on the internet and now the Star Wars kid, Ghyslain Raza, has to finish the rest of school in a psychiatric ward because he was ridiculed by 500 other kids every day. His parents are suing the parents of the other 4 kids for $225,000 in damages. Some people felt sorry for Ghyslain, one group raising almost $3,000 for him, which they plan to buy him an iPod with. Reportedly, the 4 kids who released the video of Ghyslain are actual plotting to find a way to get the iPod sent to them.People, THIS is why school shootings happen. When you have an entire school who makes it their goal for the day to make you feel like something they'd scrape off the bottom of their shoe OF COURSE something's going to snap. It's horrible to know that people like that actually exist in this world, and further more feel no remorse for what they have done. I'm glad this particular kid got some help, but if it had gone just a little differently, we'd be hearing about the violent deaths of at least 4 students at the hands of their classmate in Quebec right now.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 25, 2003, 09:32:56 PM
http://web.gwax.com/swk/
Click on Star Wars Kid
I feel bad for him and all but....it was hilarious.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on July 26, 2003, 03:05:25 AM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 26, 2003, 03:09:40 AM
He's in a mental hospital????
Holy mother of God.
I mean, he's like a celebrity among the Star Wars community now!
He's had more exposure for that tape than any fan-made movie in history!
And last I heard, there's rumours that Lucasfilm's casting agents are going to offer him a small role in Episode 3!!
Bloody hell. This is pretty bad.
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 26, 2003, 04:48:44 AM
Post by: Caliban on July 26, 2003, 05:05:06 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 26, 2003, 06:04:04 AM
Anyways, I think that Ghislain should just quit his damn bitching. Everyone gets mocked at some point in their life. Some of my grade school years were a living freaking hell. Did I ever get a free iPod and $3000? HELL NO! I would gradly trade places with the unappreciative idiot.
His parents are the ones who need to be freaking shot. Suing someone because your son was dumb enough to leave the tape in the camcorder of himself doing some VERY ungraceful moves? WTF do you think will happen?
Post by: manunited4eva22 on July 26, 2003, 06:54:12 AM
If he gets something free because some smartass kids think its funny even after they caused his insanity,god forbidthey get in deep crap for their actions. Had they appologized and actually given a crap, do you honestly think thry would still be sued, and if they were for anywhere remotely what they are being sued for?
Post by: aoi tsuki on July 26, 2003, 09:13:33 AM
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Had they appologized and actually given a crap, do you honestly think thry would still be sued, and if they were for anywhere remotely what they are being sued for?
In all fairness, they may had been advised by their lawyers not to apologize, as it would've been a admittance of guilt.
i kinda have to side with Grey Ninja on this one. i was teased so badly in one school that i developed an ulcer and had to take meds. Not fun at all; where's my iPod? i got over it, and you know what? i'm a better person for it. i can deal with situations a lot better and can stand up for myself if i need to. i do feel bad for the guy, especially considering the severity of his condition. Hopefully, he'll be able to move past this and become stronger because of it.
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Suing someone because your son was dumb enough to leave the tape in the camcorder of himself doing some VERY ungraceful moves? WTF do you think will happen?
It reminds me of the Libby Hoeler vids. The story goes that she used her webcam to make vids of herself stripping to send to her boyfriend. He fond out she was cheating, and distributed them out on the web, one with what is alleged to be her address and phone number. i've heard no news of her filing a suit. i'm sure she's been approached by people in the adult industry, if she wasn't already a member.
If anything, the kids should be punished for stealing school property. Also, i want to know what the school did to improve the situation once it spread.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 26, 2003, 11:46:28 AM
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Suing someone because your son was dumb enough to leave the tape in the camcorder of himself doing some VERY ungraceful moves? WTF do you think will happen?
Actually, it was left in a locked cabinet the 4 kids broke into.
Grey Ninja- I agree that people shouldn't take ridicule that seriously, but you have to understand that not everybody can handle critiscism. I could take 500 people calling me names all day because I dont' really care what other people think about me, but other people aren't the same way. Maybe this kid was insecure to begin with, at which point the worst thing that could happen is for the entire student body to turn on you. Do you really think anyone that would shoot their fellow classmates are SANE? Kids like this need help whether they're being made fun of or not, and when they don't get it when they ARE being made fun of, what do you think's going to happen? Most of us have the luxury of realizing that the people who make fun of us are just sadistic freaks who probably won't amount to anything, but other people don't. You can't just assume that everyone out there is going to take ridicule standing up- some people just can't handle it. And I seriously doubt even you could handle 500 kids making fun of you all day every day- I know I couldn't.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 26, 2003, 11:51:53 AM
Suffice to say that I have survived all kinds of crap, I have never killed anyone, and I am a stronger person because of it. And I most certainly did not get a f*cking iPod for being a dork.
Post by: dj51c488 on July 26, 2003, 12:04:23 PM
-dj51c488
P.S.: I'm sorta new here, if you're wonderin'.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 26, 2003, 12:08:31 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 26, 2003, 12:34:15 PM
dj, Welcome to the forums. I hope you stay a while. From your description, I am schizoid too, and my roommate who was a neuroscience student also described me as schizophrenic at times. I can't really disagree. I pretty much agree with everything you say though.
Mouse Clicker, this is starting to remind me of a conversation I once had with the roommate I just mentioned. She told me she was interested in teaching special education classes if she could get accepted into the education program. I told her that I didn't see any point in spending education dollars on teaching retards to sing and dance. She told me that it wasn't just the retards, but people who had other handicaps that required them to have an altered education. I told her that was a bunch of crap. We already have various different levels of difficulty that a student can take, and it's not like the education system is geared towards certain people. The geniuses are held back by the idiots, and the progress is too fast for the idiots. The average IQ level doesn't really gain much from the experience either, as they just don't want to be there. My point was that school is 12 years of pure hell. Getting a diploma at the end of it means that you overcame great adversity, and accomplished your goal against all odds. Giving out that diploma to someone who couldn't handle the pressure is disgracing those who earned it fair and square. She promptly called me an intellectual snob.
My opinion on that remains unchanged though. People aren't meant to overcome every obstacle placed in front of them. Not everyone is meant to finish school, and not everyone is meant to have a peachy life. If you can't handle people mocking you, then retreat into your house and never leave. If you can handle it, then go outside and make something of yourself. The choice is entirely yours.
Anyways, that's my last word on the issue. I mean it this time.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 26, 2003, 03:16:37 PM
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My point was that school is 12 years of pure hell.
So now school is an endurance test? So only the kids who DON'T have problems deserve an education? How the hell do they do school in Canada? In the US at least, EVERYONE gets an education because EVERYONE DESERVES an education.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 26, 2003, 03:24:00 PM
Post by: HiTmaN on July 26, 2003, 03:28:16 PM
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My point was that school is 12 years of pure hell.
You said it brother.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 26, 2003, 04:31:03 PM
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Compassion for your fellow man
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You're no better than the jocks and preps who get shot up at school shootings!
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obviously you're not mature yet.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 26, 2003, 05:04:15 PM
I have not been fed with a silver spoon ever in my life. I worked my ass off to get where I am. I never backed down, I never retreated. Let me tell you a few things about me.
1) I am a genius. I am not trying to be arrogant, but I am distinctly above average intelligence. Public school systems go by at an incredibly slow pace, even with the higher levelled courses. It's not like the public school system is a perfect mold for me.
2) I was raised for the first 15 years of my life in a little rat hole called Pink Mountain. Look for it in a Canadian atlas. You will see my home (Brady Ranch) listed as a historical location. For 2 years of that time, I moved to different cities to go to a real school when my sister was in high school. (Pink Mountain had a 1 room school ranging from grades K - 9). For the first year, everything was great. I left my only friend back in Pink Mountain, but I made new ones. The next year wasn't so great. I was forced to move to a different town yet again, and being a shy person, I didn't have the strength left to make new friends. I shunned the people around me, and I spent a year in complete misery. That was 4th grade.
3) For grades 5 - 8, I was forced to work on them through homeschooling, as the population of Pink Mountain was no longer big enough to support a school, not even a 1 room one. Grades 5, 6, and 7 went by ok, but grade 8 took me 2 years to finish. I was alone in the world with myself and my parents. I was rapidly losing all motivation and desire to live. My Mom recognized that, and sent me to Taber (Where Taber corn comes from), to finish up my school.
4) Grade 9 was spent living with my youngest sister who had recently married, and was living in Taber. However, we didn't get along, and I spent every day of that year fighting with her. She is an intolerable person to be around for an extended period, and I would always get in trouble for eating food in the house, even though I had no money or food of my own. My solution was to simply not eat. I survived that year pretty much on milk and rationed supplies of whatever my Mom would send me in the mail, as she didn't check the fluid levels in the milk containers. That year also marked the worst grades in my life, and I had even more social problems than in 4th grade, as I had been completely out of contact with people for the last 5 years.
5) For Grade 10, I came back to Pink Mountain. I couldn't handle things anymore, and didn't even bother touching my school books for that year. I grew increasingly suicidal, and my Mom gave me one last chance at freedom. I was sent back to Taber again to live with my oldest sister. We actually got along quite well, and only had one or two minor spats in the entire time I was there, which was 3 years for grades 10 - 12. My social relations grew steadily better, as I met a girl who changed my life. I met her on my first day of class, and I knew I wanted her right then. I spent the next 3 years trying to improve myself enough to be worthy of her. Ultimately, my shyness took hold, and after graduation, she left my life forever.
6) In grade 10 or 11, (I forget which), there was a shooting at my high school. (WR Myers High School), but I was not involved. However, a guy I knew was killed, and a few of my closer friends were shot at. It didn't bother me in the slightest then, and it doesn't bother me now. However, your attitude concerning it bothers me greatly, which is why I am bringing this up.
7) When I graduated high school, I was the nice age of 19 years old. The month after graduation, I turned 20.
That was my school life. I never once asked for any kind of special education. I endured it all, and I am a stronger person for doing so.
I may not be any better than the "jocks who get shot up at school shootings", but what the hell does that mean? I certainly don't empathize with freaking psychos who feel that they need to shoot people because they gave them a hard time. Where the hell is your compassion for your fellow man, and your maturity when you are sympathising with murderers? I even mentioned earlier in this thread that I was in a school with a school shooting. Where was your great sense of maturity when discussing how righteous the shooters were in such incidents, as of course, they were "victims of society".
Do I care about other people? Maybe. I am really not sure. I do know that actions speak louder than words though, and I don't see you doing anything short of blaming the victims of the shootings for making fun of the guy who shot them.
Being born disadvantaged is your own responsibility to fix. Not everyone is going to graduate high school, and if they did, it would be meaningless. A high school diploma means many things.
1) You are capable of dealing with massive amounts of stress.
2) Your common sense and problem solving ability is good enough for most non-professional jobs.
3) You are able to function normally as a part of a larger group.
If you don't have one of those 3 things, you aren't meant to graduate. Special classes takes some of the meaning away from the diploma. Not having a high school diploma doesn't mean that your life is over, it just restricts the number of occupations you may choose from. Not everyone is suited to a professional job of any sort, so I really don't see the problem with that. You don't need a diploma to flip burgers at McDonalds. You do need a diploma to have a management position of some kind. You need a degree to design aircraft carriers.
Are you understanding me yet?
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 26, 2003, 06:10:40 PM
And i'm not blaming anyone here- I in NO way condone what school shooters have done. I believe that they shouldn't get worked up over ridicule, like you, but that if they DO get worked up to get them so help. However, that also doesn't justify anything people did to push these kids- they're obviously not altogether there and when they have hundreds of people pushing them everyday SOMETHING'S going to happen. I'm not saying they deserved it, just that they brought it upon themselves. And then for them to act like they're the innocent ones is downright gross.
Bottom line is that not everyone can overcome adversity like you can, and to shun these people is wrong.
Post by: Mario on July 26, 2003, 06:46:51 PM
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My point was that school is 12 years of pure hell.
No it isnt. Its however you make it. I think school is great because you get to meet and talk to people, while learning at the same time.
Post by: PIAC on July 26, 2003, 06:49:52 PM
and now ive moved away and have no friends
ohwell
Post by: Ocarina Blue on July 26, 2003, 08:07:05 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 26, 2003, 08:42:05 PM
Post by: ThePerm on July 26, 2003, 09:40:23 PM
Piac its great to know schools are the similar(piss poor low resource government controlled crap) the world over...but then again you Aussies graduate at a younger age.....
Post by: HiTmaN on July 26, 2003, 10:38:54 PM
Post by: PIAC on July 26, 2003, 11:55:52 PM
anyone who wanted a decent education i knew went to a decent school, anyone who couldn't be assed or couldn't afford it was at my school, who wanted to pass and do well did, but alot didn't, i didn't even pass highschool, and im no dummy. im just lazy as all buggery
Post by: BrianSLA on July 27, 2003, 12:16:49 AM
Post by: PIAC on July 27, 2003, 12:40:59 AM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 27, 2003, 03:38:32 AM
on 'Hyperspace', Starwars.com's new pay service (like IGN's Insider), there are webcams around the studio. SOmetimes, they give cryptic hints to various bits and pieces of story, characters and locations. One time, some production people were watching the video, in full view of the webcam. One of them scribbles on some paper, and reveals it to the camera. It said:
"Ghyislian! We love you!" (is that how you spell his name?)
So that's where the rumours started.
I didn't laugh as much as that 'Man in diapers' pic i see from time to time.
Post by: aoi tsuki on July 27, 2003, 07:28:12 AM
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George Lucas should put the kid in Ep 3 to make him feel better / get back at those kids - of course if it sucks as bad as Ep 1 & Ep 2.... it might be worse!
If he does make it into Episode 3, nothing will really change. He'll just be the boy that George Lucas felt sorry for, and they'll just have more material to make fun of him since he was actually in a Star Wars movie.
The only way his situation will get better is if he changes himself, toughens up and gets some confidence. Losing some weight would help, although he might already be doing that considering his condition. When people see the change in him, they'll eventually lose interest.
The best thing for him to do is be successful in life, then return to his school for a renunion a few decades later and thank all the jerks that made fun of him for motivating him to greatness.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 27, 2003, 02:56:19 PM
You could move to a new school, but then what if everyone there laughed? It's a hopeless situation, and only the TOUGHEST of people would be able to overcome it. One thing that i find depressing is that the general population only highly regard people who have overcome some sort of disability of fear, for example, a guy learning to walk when doctors tell him he has no chance. For the kid, there are people willing to help, but they are few and far. If met him, and he asked for my help, i would most definitely give the most i can, no doubt about it. I wouldn't snicker, laugh or say anything about him behind his back.
I'd give my full support.
I find it weird cause despite my social misgivings, i wasn't teased or made fun of. Seriously!
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 27, 2003, 03:24:53 PM
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One thing that i find depressing is that the general population only highly regard people who have overcome some sort of disability of fear, for example, a guy learning to walk when doctors tell him he has no chance
It's called courage. It's a widely respected ability because it's something that everyone finds difficult to do, and is one of the few human abilities that almost never has a negative effect on others. It's not a disability of fear, but an ability to overcome your fears and become a better person because of that.
If you don't have that, you are a coward, and liability to yourself and others.
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For the kid, there are people willing to help, but they are few and far. If met him, and he asked for my help, i would most definitely give the most i can, no doubt about it.
I don't know what I would do to tell the truth. I would probably slap him in the face and tell him to grow up.
When I first heard that he was suing the people who distributed his movie, I was going to go hunt down his email address and flame the hell out of him. But someone pointed out to me that it was his parents doing that and not him. That made me keep my mouth shut about him for a while. The way I see it, the kid had it coming.
Millions of people have seen the video and laughed about it. I know when I first saw it, I was laughing myself to tears, and since I was in a public place, I was annoying the hell out of everyone else in the room until they saw what I was watching... then they joined in. We were laughing because it was something that we all did, but not quite that badly. It was hilarious because the kid was SO uncoordinated when we are used to seeing that kind of stuff done by martial arts masters.
The way I see it, he doesn't need my money, my support, or my shoulder to cry on.
If I was walking down the street, and the crow that continually makes angry noises at me and flies close by my head every time I walk by, (I'm serious... this happens) decided to peck me and I did the smart thing and ran away, and someone got that on video and distributed it, I assure you that I would be downloading it a week later and laughing my ass off.
Would that entitle me to sue the person doing that and enable me to receive donations from a bunch of saps on the internet?
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I wouldn't snicker, laugh or say anything about him behind his back. I'd give my full support.
I'd laugh right to his face.
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It's a hopeless situation, and only the TOUGHEST of people would be able to overcome it.
I don't know what to say about this. Ummm... you are full of crap? I have met MANY people mocked by the whole school, and they invariably show up each day.
I have met people with abusive parents and no friends who don't kill themselves or check into an insane asylum.
I was one of the people who you speak of, and I am not a particularly strong person. I am just dutiful.
You and Mouse Clicker are probably from middle class families, and have never experienced anything like this. I don't really think that makes you good people to judge this situation. To you guys, this is like watching one of those sob stories on the news where they show a bunch of perfectly healthy kids playing in the dirt and wearing rags and want you to send money. When you send money, you get that warm feeling in your hearts that you made some little kid's life happier without much thought about other things.
Am I cold heartless bastard like Mouse Clicker is implying? I might be. I really don't know. I do know that I have first and second hand experience with cases like this, and I think that the bastard is being treated too damn well as it is. Ordinarilly, people would just have to live with this, and live each day at a time. But since millions of suckers watched the tape, they feel that they have to feel sorry for the poor little guy and send money. I just feel that he's neither deserving of money (aside from the entertainment value he provided), and he should just grow a freaking backbone and accept life as it comes.
I just think that the money is better spent elsewhere, like putting holes in the sides of whaling ships or something.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 27, 2003, 03:36:30 PM
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I don't know what I would do to tell the truth. I would probably slap him in the face and tell him to grow up.
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I'd laugh right to his face.
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It's a hopeless situation, and only the TOUGHEST of people would be able to overcome it.
Grey Ninja...my sides are killing me from laughing. And to the person that said Its a hopeless situation, seriously you gotta go outside into the REAL WORLD. People get mocked everyday just because of what they wear, look like, or if they arent up to current things. I'll admit I've done some pretty cruel things to kids who weren't very popular, but I mean life goes on. Ya ok this kid was taped and it was posted on the internet. Kids made fun of him at school, SO WHAT. You may have to listen to all the rumors and insults, but its not like you have to pay attention to them.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on July 27, 2003, 03:48:25 PM
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Originally posted by: PIAC
i was far from popular, but i had a pretty big group of friends.
Sounds kinda like me, I had friends that were the 'popular' people and then those that 'weren't' I was someone in between I guess. I wasn't nameless but I wasn't out in front either.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 27, 2003, 04:21:55 PM
But I'm sorry I don't have abusive parents. I'm sorry I have friends, I'm sorry I'm not suicidal, and I'm sorry I'm not checking in to an asylum.
Is that a bad thing?
No.
I would rather help a person than slap them in that face, as you so eloquently put it. Have I sent him money? No. I don;t think he's deserving either, but he got the money. Live with it. It's just that if he was my friend, I would help him, but tell him to try and defend himself, not abandon him outright, as you seem perfectly comfortable with doing.
I guess you are closer to him than I am, so yeah, that doesn't make me a good person to talk about the situation, but does that take away my right to?
No.
I am merely offering my perspective on it. Im sorry I can't see it with your battle-hardened eye, but i feel support is better than leaving someone to fend for themselves is a bit wrong.
Say what you will, but that's my stance.
And for now, i must get back to Uni.
Do you guys have something like Kids Helpline? It's a service here in Australia where kids can ring up anonymously and talk to someone who cares about their problems when they have no one else to talk to. You'd be amazed at the support it gets here.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 27, 2003, 04:23:49 PM
Let's just leave it there.
*offers handshake*
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 27, 2003, 05:08:55 PM
*shakes hand*
We have universal health care, universal education, and we do have a Children's Help Line in Canada btw. We are a socialist country, and we try to look after everyone.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 27, 2003, 06:07:03 PM
We are friends again!
Post by: ThePerm on July 27, 2003, 07:19:03 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 27, 2003, 07:27:34 PM
Democracy is a political system.
Socialism is a social system.
Canada is a Democratic socialist system.
The United States is a Democratic capitalist system.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 27, 2003, 09:51:08 PM
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oh yeah, my school was utter rubbish, if you want a good education you have to pay for it anyone who wanted a decent education i knew went to a decent school, anyone who couldn't be assed or couldn't afford it was at my school,
This isn't meant to be derivitive or anything, but how does the school system in Australia work? In America, public schools are pretty much all the same and you get pretty much the same education no matter which one you go to (since what is taught is mandated by the state). Sometimes you'll get a really good teach you learn a lot from, but most of the time high school teachers are all hard boiled by high school students and pretty apathetic as to whether or not you pass. It's still a great education, though, no matter how much flack the American school system gets- I've certainly learned a lot, and with relatively little effort.
Post by: PIAC on July 27, 2003, 11:14:23 PM
etc etc
Post by: ThePerm on July 28, 2003, 01:32:37 AM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 28, 2003, 03:21:51 AM
It is compulsory to go from Kidergarten to Year 10. IN year 10, you do the School Certificate (SC). This determines if you are eligible to go onto year 11 and year 12. If you don't wanna go into year 11, or failed your SC, you can:
-get a job
-or get an apprenticeship
Well, when you get up to Year 12, you'll be around 17 or 18 years old. At the end, you do the Higher School Certificate (HSC) exams, which determines if you'll be able to get into the University course you want. Most people go straight to University after High School, but I believe that number is falling.
If you don't get into Uni, and/or failed the HSC, then you can do a number of things:
-First, you can go to TAFE, which is like a lower form of Uni.
-Second, do either of the two things above
-Third, you can just bludge your way through life, and learn things yourself.
-And finally, you can repeat Year 12, and do your HSC again. I think with this option, you have a maximum of four tries.
I went straight to Uni.
Infernal's going to TAFE, and Mario is at school AND doing TAFE.
That's the basic crust of it. If there's more to the NSW school system, then Mario and Infernal, feel free to add to that.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on July 28, 2003, 04:54:52 AM
My english teacher was mad I didn't go to college, but after 4 years of high school I just didn't want to be bothered. If I had taken the SAT's I probably would have gotten v. high marks and gone to just about any college I wanted to, but I didn't want to. So from 1996 (year I graduated) to 1999 I sat on my ass at home and didn't get a job until after Thanksgiving 1999, and have been working there since too.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 28, 2003, 06:24:10 AM
Mouseclicker, I know you have had a bad week on these boards and I don't want to make you feel picked on. But, I have to say that you are wrong when you say that the education you get in this country is the same pretty much wherever you go. My mother was poor and my father wealthy (that is a whole other story). I lived with each of them at different times and I will say the junior high I went to in 7th grade living with my mom was completely different than the school I went to in 8th grade living with my dad. I won't go on about it because I don't want to start an argument with you, but try to open your eyes to what is happening at different schools even in your own city and you may be surprised.
I know this was barely even mentioned but healthcare here is way worse than the education system. We do give healthcare to the poor, but you have to be VERY poor to get it. There are millions of "working poor" people who do not qualify and their employers do not cover them. Also, employers are not obligated to cover whole families, just the employee. This result is obvious. Mom or dad has insurance but it doesn't cover the spouse or kids.
Okay, I'll shut up now. *sighs*
Post by: The Omen on July 28, 2003, 07:11:37 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 28, 2003, 09:06:55 PM
I went to a catholic primary school, then to a cathlolic high school. Then it closed down cause the Board of Studies said so, so then I went to a private high school.
One of the things that you americans have to know is that going into some private schools (like mine, St Patrick's College Strathfield) isn't about how wealthy you are. As long as you do your best acedemically and socially, then you're fine. There are some private schools (like Kings, Waverly College and S.C.E.G.G.S), and boarding schools that depend on their rich students to uphold their poshy traditions and 'values'. I'm not rich or anything, and my parents didn't have contacts in the Government to get me in to that private school. I got in solely for my acedemic merit, which degraded toward Year 12. Hahaha.
One of the funny things is that our school's got heaps of famous people. The NSW Leader of Opposition, John Brogden, went to our school, as did famous author Tom Keneally - who's novel was made into the movie 'Schindler's List' by Mr Speilberg.
So yeah..
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 28, 2003, 09:33:56 PM
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Mouseclicker, I know you have had a bad week on these boards and I don't want to make you feel picked on. But, I have to say that you are wrong when you say that the education you get in this country is the same pretty much wherever you go."
I'm sure the quality of the teaching instruments changes as you go from school to school, city by city, but the state and country DO mandate what has to be taught, so everyone's getting the same base education. I personally don't live in a rich city (nor a poor city) and the schools I've been to have been wonderful. I know people who live in the slums of my city and the ones that are stupid aren't stupid because of their school, they're stupid because they never put any effort into it. I also know people from the ritzier side of the city and none of them are smart because of the school they went to. You can get a great education out of any school- I seen it personally, and just because one school gets a little better funding because of it being in a richer neighborhood doesn't mean it's students are going to be any smarter. Like many people have said, what you get out of school is what you put into it, regardless of what expensive teaching aids or lack thereof different schools have.
And then you have the fundamental paradox- people in the US complain constantly about how little funding the school system gets, and how little teachers get paid, yet those same people don't want to pay the higher taxes that those things would entail. They want the quality to improve but they don't want to foot the bill for it, so the quality never actually does improve.
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I know this was barely even mentioned but healthcare here is way worse than the education system.
That has very little to do with neighborhoods or taxes or anything- the problem with the American health care system is that it's base on private enterprise, so you have to pay for good quality and most people simply can't afford that. I'm not saying it's good- like you said, it's horrible than many working poor can't afford health care, especially when the need it most (the excellent movie John Q expressed this point excellently). However, free health care systems aren't much better, if at all. What you get out of a free health care system (which is funded by taxes, similar to our school system) is what you put into it, and one look at how much our schools get will tell you the level of quality of a free health care system. My dad personally knows many doctors who worked in Canada and the UK who had to quit their jobs because they couldn't support their families on the income they make- similar to teachers in the US.
Termin8: Your school system sounds very similar to ours except with some different names. In the US general schooling is kindegarten through 12th grade- kindegarten isn't required but heavily reccomended. Elementary school is generally 1st-5th grade, middle school is 6th-8th grade, and high school is 9th-12th grade (aka freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior grades). Legally you have to go to school until you're 18, I think, although that may vary state by state. After you graduate high school people generally take either the SAT or ACT, both of which are tests that judge what colleges/universities will accept you. You don't have to go to college, but it's very hard to find a good career if you don't. Colleges are generally 4 years and junior colleges are 2 years. Sounds pretty much the same excluding the test to get into 11th and 12th grade.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 29, 2003, 06:28:40 AM
Our's is just simply Primary School (kindy to year 6) and high school (7-12), none of that freshman, sophomore crap. And what's with those weird groups at college? you know, the ones with the greek letters?
We don't have college here.
Actually, I'm fortunate to be in Sydney, cause that's where the majority of the universities are in New South Wales. We have five Unis in Sydney alone: Uni of Sydney, Uni of New South Wales, Uni of Technology Sydeny, Macquarie Uni and Uni of Western Sydney (which is where i go). There are other unis in the state: Southern Cross, Maratime, Wollongong, and like another two. I think in the other states, there are like only one or two unis.
I'm also lucky to live only 15 minutes drive from Uni.
College to me sounds like school all over again for you guys, since you said it is 4 years.
Uni only goes for how long your course goes for. My course is three year, where my friends, who do sciences and engineering, have 4 or 5 year courses.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 29, 2003, 06:36:37 AM
The weird names in post-secondary are fraternities or sororities. We don't have any in Lethbridge, but they are sort of like the real life equivalent of a clan in an online game. They party together and live together. That's really about it.
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College to me sounds like school all over again for you guys, since you said it is 4 years.
Uni only goes for how long your course goes for. My course is three year, where my friends, who do sciences and engineering, have 4 or 5 year courses.
College offers short courses that are designed to get you in and out again in no time at all. Courses generally take 2 years to complete. After you are done you get a college diploma, which is better than a high school diploma, and makes you qualified for a nice job.
University is a better form of post-secondary. In addition to the bare minimum that college teaches you, you are also required to take liberal education in other areas in the effort to become a well rounded person as far as education is concerned. Courses are generally 4 years in length with 5 courses per semester. After you are done with University, you are awarded a new title, and given a University Degree, which is the highest form of diploma. You have the option of taking classes for a longer period to upgrade your title. You move from Bachelor to Master to Doctor.
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I'd like to personally thank Grey Ninja for saving me the trouble and aggravation of posting on this topic by stating my opinions brilliantly.
You're welcome. I don't have the strength or the will to continue though, and I think I have said what I had to say. You may continue in my place if you wish.
But... thank you for taking the time to listen and understand. It makes me feel that I did and said the right thing.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 29, 2003, 06:57:15 AM
I think it's funny that you've been all over Grey Ninja for his unsympathetic opinion towards the kids who murder their classmates. You said you hope that the people he may need later in life don't follow his I don't give a damn mentality. I think you are showing that very mentality.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 29, 2003, 12:11:55 PM
Another thing is I don't necessarily believe in everything I say. On IGN a few years ago I wrote up a 1,500 word post on why I thought that diseases are our natural predator which exist to keep our population in check and that it's not in the best interest of our species to be making so many medical advancements, essentially destroying ourselves through overpopulation. I made it abundantly clear, however, that while I think that's TRUE, I *certainly* don't think hospitals should be shut down or the sick and elderly should be left alone- that's a cold thing to do. So while I think that destroying diseases is bad, I value human lives much more. Truthfully, though, I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to. On the subject of people not wanting to pay higher taxes for better schools, that's something I think is horrible but sadly don't have any control over. I'd personally pay higher taxes for better schools and higher paid teachers even if I didn't have a child myself. On the subject of capitalist health care versus free health care, my only point there was it's a damned if you do damned if you don't sort of situation. Believe, that's something that is deeply troubling, but I was just pointing out that switching to a free health care system is going to change much at all, and may even be worse because some hospitals may not even be able to afford to treat people who need serious attention. If there was a system where everybody got the care they need at very little or no cost to them, that would be great. I'd fully support such a plan, but I don't think it exists. Gery Ninja's own mentality is if someone can't overcome their adversity and get the treatment they need, screw them- I don't really see many similarities between my own thinking and his.
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I don't have the strength or the will to continue though,
I don't mean to be nitpicky, and this is only to (hopefully) prove a point, but don't you consider yourself weak for lacking the strength to carry on a simple debate? I've debated much more personal topics much longer than this, so shouldn't people be praising me while they shun you? I think you're a great guy, Ninja, someone I'd consider a friend, and I hope there's no hard feelings between us- I just think you're taking a very heartless stance.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 29, 2003, 12:50:45 PM
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Gery Ninja's own mentality is if someone can't overcome their adversity and get the treatment they need, screw them- I don't really see many similarities between my own thinking and his.
The parallel I am drawing is that IMO you are saying if kids can't overcome what their schools are lacking then screw 'em. And it does make a difference how old the books are. If we are talking about a book of literature then , no it doesn't need to be a new copy. If we are talking about science or history then it does make a difference. An example is, in my son's classroom, the set of encyclopedias they had were from the 70's. Don't you think SOME new information may be available since then that the kids would want/need to know? History textbooks have the same problem. It is fairly common for schools to have history books that are old enough to say the current president is actually one from 1-2 administrations back. I know they may not be able to keep up when a president has just come into office, but COME ON!
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 29, 2003, 01:00:15 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 29, 2003, 01:08:24 PM
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I don't mean to be nitpicky, and this is only to (hopefully) prove a point, but don't you consider yourself weak for lacking the strength to carry on a simple debate? I've debated much more personal topics much longer than this, so shouldn't people be praising me while they shun you? I think you're a great guy, Ninja, someone I'd consider a friend, and I hope there's no hard feelings between us- I just think you're taking a very heartless stance.
There is more going on here than I have said. I am 22 years old and I am going grey. This thread is touching some issues that I seriously do not want to discuss. The reason for that is that I DO consider you a friend. I keep reminding myself that you are too young to understand, but it's seriously hard for me to control my temper.
I have more to say, but I think I will leave it unsaid.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 29, 2003, 01:14:46 PM
Hehe- going grey. Gotcha.
Post by: >X< Kitten >X< on July 29, 2003, 01:44:58 PM
Post by: HiTmaN on July 29, 2003, 02:25:14 PM
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And then you have the fundamental paradox- people in the US complain constantly about how little funding the school system gets, and how little teachers get paid, yet those same people don't want to pay the higher taxes that those things would entail. They want the quality to improve but they don't want to foot the bill for it, so the quality never actually does improve.
Eh, why cant the schools just give teachers more money? Last year the principal at my school got a $100,000 raise. My new school that I'm going to (which is full of gangster wannabes and stupid loud black people) is extremely overfunded. Most of the money goes to other things, but if your going to be a teacher you know the salary. Its not the pay, its more giving back to the community.
Back to the Star Wars Kid, this guy wouldnt have shot up the school. I mean look at him, where would he get a gun, and who would give him one? Its not like hes gonna walk up to some kid at school and say hey can you get me a gun?
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 29, 2003, 02:37:20 PM
As for whether or not the kid could get a gun, you'd be suprised. I'm not sure how the system works in Canada, but it's relatively easy to get guns in America. I could see your point about who would give a gun to a kid, but it's happened many times in the US and has happened in Canada as well, as Ninja stated. If he really wanted a gun, there's no doubt in my mind he could get one.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on July 29, 2003, 03:32:20 PM
The fact is for me, I go to a school that has a whole lot of money and it shows. We have a massive football stadium (it can hold 20,000 people), we have a thriving computer group, and we really are just a bit excessive. Maybe its because I have had it all, that I feel that people who don't should be pittied . If you call it being looked down on, so be it. The idea of all of our pity, and helped. I'm sure a lot of my class mates would screw over a big portion of their friends if it meant a higher social status, but I really can't agree with that. By the laws of darwinism, the only reason we breed is to continue evolution, whether you agree with that or not, it leaves humans feeling a bit empty. Can you honestly say that you think bill gates idea of having the most money is winning in life? He may have made it to the top in money, but can any of you say that he has not pissed you off with his software? Has he been generous in charity? Yes, and he should be commended for what he has done. Has he been cut throat in his business tactics, yes, and that is probablly an understatement.
What I am getting at is, you can't define human exhistence only as competition. Granted a great deal of it is, but there is also a spot in it where people need to feel like they have a reason to be there. People need to know that they aren't just pointless spots on the planet, living here for similar issues talked about in xenocide.
Blah, /rant end
Post by: Ness_the_Mess on July 29, 2003, 04:00:38 PM
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Originally posted by: Ocarina Blue
Yeah, it's sad that this happened, but I think less guns in the country would have a greater effect.
Fewer guns in Canada ... um ... in case you haven't noticed, you need a liscence, which you have to pay annually for. Not to mention, it's mostly hunting rifles, and the only hand guns are really hard to get liscences for.
Anyway, I was once a kid with few friends. Everyone else made fun of me. One day, I did snap. No joke - I was crazy. My house was across from the school. If there was a gun in my house, I would have gotten it and shot everyone. Kids can be extremely cruel, without thinking about it. It's horrible. People may say this guy is being mellow dramatic, but really, he isn't. One time a school shooting happened, a classmate was interviewed, saying, "We don't know why he would ever kill anyone. No-one ever talked to him, it was uncalled for." That is the stupidest excuse I have ever heard. If no-one talked to him, he MUST have felt loved, and had warm fuzzies all over ... no wait, that's just plain stupidity talking.
Oh well. Shooting is uncalled for too.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 29, 2003, 04:45:11 PM
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People need to know that they aren't just pointless spots on the planet, living here for similar issues talked about in xenocide.
An Ender fan has penetrated our depths! Xenocide really is an excellent example, though- at the risk of spoiler it for people who may want to read it (which means if you don't want a huge plot point revealed, stop reading), the pequinos discovered that even though they existed only to keep the ecology of the planet in check, they realized that that didn't rule out them leading meaningful lives. Interesting that someone else here has even read the book, though- I only know of one other guy who's read the series and he's the one that got me to read it.
One thing to those of you who follow Grey Ninja's mentality- say you were fighting in the army and one of your fellow soldiers had his legs blown off by a mine. Would you leave him there? The man is too weak to do anything to either help the battle or help himself, so shouldn't you ignore him and let him die? He can't overcome his problem on his own, so that must mean he's unworthy, right? If you say no, you wouldn't leave him, how are physical and mental disabilities any different? And if you say yes, you would leave him, could you really sit there and watch him die, even if you think it was the right thing to do?
Post by: HiTmaN on July 29, 2003, 06:26:15 PM
. I absolutly hate it and cant wait until I go home at the end of the day. About the guns, firstly look at this kid. Does he look like he knows anyone that can get him a gun? Nobody at his school would, its not like he can give his $100 to someone to go buy him a gun. Its not like his family would and he doesn't live in the US I tought it was Quebec or somethin. Even if he does, the chances are extremely low. Also I I can see why people dont sympathize for him. I mean if he didnt do this in the first place and acted like a normal person, non of this would happened. Video taping yourself doing things is VERY VERY VERY stupid, unfortunatly an x-friend of mine learned this the hard way.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 29, 2003, 06:34:29 PM
Post by: The Omen on July 29, 2003, 06:34:39 PM
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One thing to those of you who follow Grey Ninja's mentality- say you were fighting in the army and one of your fellow soldiers had his legs blown off by a mine. Would you leave him there? The man is too weak to do anything to either help the battle or help himself, so shouldn't you ignore him and let him die? He can't overcome his problem on his own, so that must mean he's unworthy, right? If you say no, you wouldn't leave him, how are physical and mental disabilities any different? And if you say yes, you would leave him, could you really sit there and watch him die, even if you think it was the right thing to do?
You don't leave him, you pick him up and continue fighting the fight . Its called heroism. I dont see how that has anything to do with the star wars kid. He doesn't have his legs blown off...he is not helpless, and in a case like this, it is that boys courage that must come through. Why does he need a hero to stand up for him? This generation of teens better toughen up or this world is going to eat them alive.
If i saw a fellow soldier sitting on the battlefield weeping like a baby, hiding, while i was fighting, would i go help him? No. 'Only the strong survive'
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 29, 2003, 06:44:17 PM
And going by your own example, what if YOU were that solider weeping on the battlefield? How would you feel if no one came to make you feel better and you died there cold alone? You guys sit up on your pedastels with your high-and-mighty attitude, but what if you were on the other side of the fence? It's your inability to project yourself into other people's situations that makes you so heartless- you ARE no better than animals. You can't possibly imagine what other people are going through yet it's perfectly okay for you to pass ultimate judgement on them, to the point of *death*. I really doubt you'd follow your own line of thinking when the opportunity presented itself.
Post by: ThePerm on July 29, 2003, 06:45:46 PM
originally i lived in Valdosta, Georgia(the state not the country). So im going to mix things up a bit.
pre-school- I never went to pre-school. Its optional and not required. Supposedly kids who go to pre-school are better learners. But then again im not convinced entirely about this.
kindergarden- In my Kindergarden i was taught how to read and write, do basic addition and subtraction, and Science(thank god for ms. Gish..she set me on the path towards Evolution, the big bang theory, etc.)
1st grade- I think my teacher of first grade was an exceptional Teacher. I learned things such as phonix, extended math, more science, grammer, and that in 1st grade you are not uspposed to rip the pages out of the math books. Also i learned that if you are stupid you will stay in the same class for several years and be the tall old fat kid who sits in front of you. Poor wesly..on one hand he wasa bully. But he never bllied me. We were buddies.
2nd grade- Hmm its hard to really think of what differences there was in first in second grade. The teacher was an old lady. Hmm. We learned about polution and some geometry. Wewent on field trips to museums. And i was in a special ed class(im not stupid...the only thing i learn in there was that tion is pronounced shun. I had hella fun on those old computers though. Where in the world is carmon sandiego...yeah! My hatred and dislike for all amthematics started here. Math is tedious boring work. With every new day the teacher adds more and more homework and increases the difficulty(this does not make games fun, nor math) My theory is i would probably be alot better at it if they taught me all the operations at a faster pace and made me do less problems. The operations are whats important. Too many problems leafds to confuion and human error. I really didnt understand that until my college math teacher told me.
3rd grade- in third grade i was taught cursive and multiplication...in second grade i was shunned for looking up cursive and doing some homework in cursive(well you assigned hte damn homework on halloween..i stayed in most the night bitch i wanted soem fucking candy damnit!!!!! Me and my friend looked thorough the back of our english books..and what was that cursive) back to third grade. I beleive this is where my love of drawing started. Me and my friend matt started to draw all these cool submarine drawings(hmm i havn't drawn one in years sounds fun). In this grade my teacher said i probably had ADD but my mom said no(i probably do). So anyways i never took to multiplication well(gosh i still count my damn fingers...aw screw it calculators are so small and easy to use..they try to force kids to memorize vast tables and they should know every damn multiplication combination. Also my teacher was pregnant and she went through terrible mood swings. The enxt year she switched to beign a kindergarden teacher. I would say i played a part in that
4th grade hmm...i really dont remember forth grade very well. It turns out i was really a genious in english classes as my brother and i got the top two highest scores on some national test. I have always hated math but it really became a hated subject when i ended up in a special class. The first day we talked about roman numerals. she made thigns so fun. I sent this slip to my mom. Said the teacher was cool ...she talked about rocket ships and said "hoop there it is". Well i ended up in that class. And all i will say is that lady....WAS THE DEVIL. The next year or so was hell. She had stank breath, and she was always angry. She yelled at every single one of us every day until we all cried. I still remember the things that were writeen on hcairs about her("miss howell is a bitch, witchy bitchy, etc") Its not that i didn't udnerstand what we were doing. She was evil ...All we really did in that class was long division(gosh that shit was easy...but we spent weeks doing one problem after another) and multiplication tables(i still never learned them...there are few i know by memory..unless they are either simple or game related)
5th grade...hmm Mr Cambell was an awesoem Teacher...he was smart...he taught us Social studies like it was a baptist sermon(all dramtic..he was fucking cool. I looked up my old elemntary school on the net..and what is he now?..the principle CAMBELL OWNZ pine grove!!!!! Also in this grade we had like endless recess. We hada 15 minute snack break every day. Actual recess. and then right after actual recessPE(but the PE teachers were hell cool..so most of the itme they jsut gave us and 1hr and a half of RECESSS!) Twas a cool grade.
6th grade- we moved ot idaho and the education system was downgraded from georgia. Also the place was pure culture shock..i wnet from a diverse community of various races, creeds and ideals To a place that was quite racist, ignorant, and downright inferior i beleave. Anyways the kids were obseesed with fighting, downright rediculous. The teachers were also terribly trained. Whenever i askeda question they beleived i hadnt listened and punished me. I look back and realise how much better i was then everone else there at the time. I have real disdane for idaho. Nothign new was learned but the food was good...damn good. Because we had two mexican(which i have found out were illegal immigrants) students in our school it was required that you learned a ton of spanish songs and sang them for the school. Unfortunately that was crap so i didnt go to the quire. Whatever..i got away with it. Also on martin luther kind jr day..we went to school. In most states you stay home. But in Idaho its not celebrated. IK asked a teacher why we didnt have the day off. And the teacher was like..well if you stayed home you wouldnt learn anything. Well nothing about MLK was talked about that day. Damn Racist Idaho.
7th grade- more culture shock...we moved to Arizona. insanely hot. My friends never ribbed me anywhere else i lived. And seriously i think it was damaging. At the time my accent was very pronounced(in a snobbish sort of way, every silible was pronounced correctly and i was very talkative) well after one year in 7th grade i went from a peroson who talked alot to someone who mumbles in a soCal accent with glasses(thank you damn daily chlorine eye damage Gila vista and your manditory swimming) and my hair went from beutiful blond locks..to dirty blond curls. But um yeah school wasnt much better in Yuma. Anyways in seventh grade we started a tradition of only reading poems and literary works by Frost, Poe, Shakespeare, and Emily Dickenson.
8th grade - was the same as 7th grade...we studied the exact same stuff it was rediculous. We had american civics ..which dealt with the inner workings of our government...but it was nothing we didnt know from social studies and history from previous years.
9th grade(AKA Freshman..grades and terms are interchangeble)
well this grade was exaclty like 7th and 8th. Cept i didnt do well in English. Why? Well the teacher was gettign old and she kept on losing peoples papers. Well she effectivly lowered the grade point average of most students...really killing my will to go to a university. She was a nice lady..dotn get me wrong. She was then reassigned to teach metally handicapped students. But yeah damn grade point average.
10th(softmore year) Same as the last few..we just did a bit more essays..i really wasnt goodat them yet.
I took german 2 i think..or german 1..i dotn remember..i either started my freshman year or softmore year..im not sure.
11th(juinior year) Well acording to the state msot of its kids were stupid and we had to take a test to prove our competancy(i passed..most didnt..so they dropped it and postponed it till 2004) anyways in this year my english skills jumped. I had a REAL "English" teacher. He was harsh...but his constructive criticim worked well for us. Think Simon from American Idol.
12th(Senior Year) was like 11th...jsut a bit stressfull because iyt was the end of school. I passed no problem with a few extra credits.
1st semester of college...hmmm i studied my general courses
2nd semester...more general courses
this next semester im going in shall be my third and i will have classes totally focused on 3d artistry
and the semester aftwords i will also..plus a biology class. and then i will have an associates degree.
those college lette things...thsoe are called fraternities..they are only tied to schools because its mainly students inside them. They are social clubs and also housign for college students. I am not in one thank god.
now you understand a little bit mroe about the american education system.
i would like to note that in high school my grades were also hurt by unorganisation..we were nto allowed lockers because they were afraid we would store drugs withinside. well that effectively gave me back pain. Made it hard to organize things and pretty much hurt my overall standing in high school . In college where i have the aility to not to carry all my books i am doing way better(aside from the lost cause class that i couldnt drop) Oh and our schools have shit funding in Arizona....so we were screwed out of perks.
ok also explainign the fundign system....
public schools get funding from the federal government and are also allocated money based on the property tax where the school is located. If money is short(which it usually is) money then has to be raised with fund raisers and also cutbacks are made.
The alternative are private schools which have no budget problems..except in the U.S they are rather expensive. most parents would rather send their kids to public school because they pay property tax and federal taxes anyways.
also oen of the leaches of money in our country is the size of our population. Canada is a nice big country but it has half the people the U.S does and austrailia is like a thrid the population. This is probably why your system works so much better. More people in on area equals more problems. Theo nly country that is bigger then the U.S and at the same time has a better education sytem is China..but their communist..so its expected..thats like your life being ran by a private school.
i wish i had a spell checker on this computer...but i dont..enjoy the insanely long post.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 29, 2003, 06:55:26 PM
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also oen of the leaches of money in our country is the size of our population. Canada is a nice big country but it has half the people the U.S does and austrailia is like a thrid the population. This is probably why your system works so much better. More people in on area equals more problems. Theo nly country that is bigger then the U.S and at the same time has a better education sytem is China..but their communist..so its expected..thats like your life being ran by a private school.
Actually, Canda's population is about a ninth that of America's (roughly 30,000,000 and 280,000,000 respectively). Australia's population is about a fourteenth the size of America's, coming in at around 20,000,000. Both China and India have much larger populations (1.3 billion and 1 billion, respectively).
And don't worry about the spell checker- I've learned to pay attention to the content rather than the spelling. Besides, I make a few mistakes myself.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 29, 2003, 07:14:14 PM
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Originally posted by: mouse_clickerQuote
One thing to those of you who follow Grey Ninja's mentality- say you were fighting in the army and one of your fellow soldiers had his legs blown off by a mine. Would you leave him there? The man is too weak to do anything to either help the battle or help himself, so shouldn't you ignore him and let him die? He can't overcome his problem on his own, so that must mean he's unworthy, right? If you say no, you wouldn't leave him, how are physical and mental disabilities any different? And if you say yes, you would leave him, could you really sit there and watch him die, even if you think it was the right thing to do?
This situation has nothing to do with teenagers who are weak and go shooting others. A soldier who was bravely fighting and then severely injured is not weak. Also, in the military there is a brotherhood among soldiers and they look out for each other. I know you are being dramatic to make a point but you are way off.
What I really would like to know is why kids are resorting to killing each other out of frustration. There have always been bullies. Kids have always been tormented. Why is it that now there are so many that can't handle it and they kill? I don't think it's mental illness. I think there are other dynamics there but I am not certain what they are. Omen is right that teens today had better toughen up. That is not to say ALL teens are like this, so don't think I am generalizing.
Post by: The Omen on July 29, 2003, 10:29:53 PM
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You can't possibly imagine what other people are going through yet it's perfectly okay for you to pass ultimate judgement on them, to the point of *death*.
By your line of thinking, it wouldn't be right for you to say ' you cant possibly imagine what people are going through', because frankly, you don't know what i've been through, and i dont know you either. So its a moot point. I've lived through some horrid times, and i've had periods of greatness, but it usually falls in between the 2. Some of the younger generation cannot deal with any adverse conditions because A.) They are sheltered and haven't had a chance to experience the reality of the world and/or B.) They have become so desensitized by pop culture that they think killing is an acceptable form of expression. Being from a broken home has some to do with it as well, but i don't feel like opening that can of worms.
Who is to say whos hell has been worse? You have to learn to deal with it...those that do, survive. Those that don't fade...or worse.
Post by: Mario on July 29, 2003, 10:35:23 PM
Yeah, school shooting are bad, mkay.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 12:56:51 AM
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This situation has nothing to do with teenagers who are weak and go shooting others. A soldier who was bravely fighting and then severely injured is not weak. Also, in the military there is a brotherhood among soldiers and they look out for each other. I know you are being dramatic to make a point but you are way off.
Jesus- I'd appreciate it if more people understood what I meant. First off, we haven't been talking about school shootings for a while now except for a few comments Hitman has made that I responded to. I never really intended for the discussion to BE about the Star Wars kid or school shootings- I was using the former as an example for the cause of the latter. What I really wanted to talk about was morality, about the intense struggle that kids like this guy go through and how they need help before they blow someone's brains out. Ninja and his supporters have been debating with me whether or not they should get that help. And secondly, you're not getting the point of my example, and maybe my revised one for the Omen was clear either. The point is, someone is in desperate need of help and their life depends on it. If you're Grey Ninja, you leave him there because the guy is too weak to help himself and has to rely on the support of others. If you're not Grey Ninja, you get the guy to a hospital beause you believe nobody should be left to die just because they need some help. Is everything clear now? Half the reason there's so much text is because I've had to explain myself 5 times to every person. I don't know if that's a problem with my writing or a problem with their reading, but either way I'm hoping to end it here.
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By your line of thinking, it wouldn't be right for you to say ' you cant possibly imagine what people are going through', because frankly, you don't know what i've been through, and i dont know you either. So its a moot point.
Don't even try that with me- if you HAD been in some these kids's shoes, you'd either have killed yourself and be dead right now or be in a federal prison for having killed other people. I KNOW that because I can guarantee that nobody here could stand what they have without snapping. And don't try to convince me otherwise- it's not worth it.
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Some of the younger generation cannot deal with any adverse conditions because A.) They are sheltered and haven't had a chance to experience the reality of the world and/or B.) They have become so desensitized by pop culture that they think killing is an acceptable form of expression.
I seriously hope you're being hypothetical, because if you're not you obviously have no idea what I'm talking about. The youth ploy is just an excuse to stop debating, otherwise I would've been buried under arguments against me and faltered myself, but that's obviously happening. It's not so black and white- it's not one way or the other. You have to think in shades of grey if you're ever going to realize my point.
And if I am young and inexperienced, so what? If I'm the only one who's going to stand up for what I believe in, for what's right, that's all that should matter. When you look at someone's age before hearing what they have to say, you're only forming a prejudgement. What if I had told you I were 27- would it be any different? What I said I was 60, or 70, would you say I was senile? Saying someone's too young to grasp what they're talking about is only an excuse for when they don't have anything to say back. I'm not going to see people cast down all that I stand for just because I'm 15- to me age is little more than a measure of how much longer you have left to live.
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Who is to say whos hell has been worse? You have to learn to deal with it...those that do, survive. Those that don't fade...or worse.
Am I going to have to start typing in caps to get my point across? Can you read, or did you just conveniantly skip what I've been saying? I have yet to see anyhing new from your side- it's the same god damned thing over and over again. Here it is, in full capital glory:
PUT YOURSELF IN THEIR SHOES- IF YOU WERE ON THE VERGE OF A MENTAL BREAK DOWN, WOULD YOU RATHER PEOPLE SHUNNED YOU AND LET YOU SPIRAL INTO MADNESS OR WOULD YOU WANT HELP TO GET YOU BACK ON TRACK?
If you're so caught up in animalistic instincts, lets kill off your grandparents, lets kill off your parents- the only thing that matters to a species is propogation, and anything that isn't increasing our population is holding it back. If you believe in survival of the fittest, start acting on it! The old are weak- they suck our resources dry only to croak on us the next day. The only thing that matters are those who bear us children and after that they are of no use. Anyone over the age of 40 has worn out their welcome and only hinder us as a species. The sick, they're no better. They leach our food, our space and return what? We bring them back to the realm of health only to have them eat more of our food, drink more of our water? Who cares that it's your sister or brother that's sick- human emotions have no place when instinct rules the world, and they must be picked off like the scab they are on our race. We're raping our planet and the only thing we can do to stop it is to thin the population, so why not start with those that do us no good? The old bear us no young, they should be slaughtered. They're weak- few can barely even walk on their own. THAT'S not survival of the fittest, trying to care for those that need help. But emotions are a human weakness- they hold us back from achieving true superiority. The wolf pack expresses no remorse when it picks out the easiest to kill, the sick and the old, and then murder it- they're only doing it for survival. We need to weed out what holds us back, regardless of what emotional attachment we have to them! THAT is the only way to truly insure the survival of our species, to cut off that which holds us back, to seperate from our tired limbs the lead weight that hinders our progress. THAT'S natural instinct, THAT'S survival of the fittest, and THAT'S what you support, Omen. If you're going to believe in something as rudimentary as a mind trained only to save it's own skin and pass it's genes on to the next generation, you damn well better get off your ass and start acting upon it. If anyone's the hypocrite around here, it's YOU- don't blame me for believing that maybe, just maybe there's more to life than that. You shouldn't even care what I think- interest in others' opinions is a sign of a weakness, a sign you're not steady enough in your own stance that you must enlist the aid of others to make sure you ARE right. I'm tired of people like you, who preach one thing to an audience of open ears only to do the opposite when no one's looking. You may think your life sucks right now, but if everybody on Earth thought like you did your life would be a living hell.
Post by: >X< Kitten >X< on July 30, 2003, 05:05:49 AM
I feel you need a little support here so I'm just gonna say that I read all your posts here, and I've understood and agreed with you from the begining.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 30, 2003, 05:34:48 AM
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The age thing always comes into play- just because I'm 15 I'm naive and have no idea what I'm talking about. Do you want to see my post I made on diseases when I was 12? Maturity comes not with age, my friend. I'll respect your decision not to debate any more, but PLEASE don't accredit it to my age.
Nobody's saying that you aren't mature. I am saying that you are too young to know the ways of the world. Things were clear to me when I was little older than you, but only because of some events that I have not mentioned here, and likely never will.
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Let me change the scenario, since you missed the point- say a friend of yours was in a collapsing building and had his legs destroyed in some rubble. He was desperate and crying for help. By Ninja's mentality, the man is weak since he can't help himself and should be left. By MY mentality, the man should be helped because he NEEDS help- it's against the human condition to leave one of your own to perish. And read what manunited said- since when do we have to follow animalistic instincts? I don't think you'd support survival of the fittest if you weren't the fittest.
That's an entirely different scenario. Don't lecture me on principles.
To you, helping other people means dropping a coin in some charity box or signing some blasted petition.
I gave a dying man his last breath. That's my idea of helping others when in need.
My point was that the Star Wars kid should just suck it up and take it like a man. He doesn't need my help or my pity any more than the people who go into a school and start shooting my classmates and friends.
The same goes for the soldier on the battlefield. If I saw someone sitting in a corner crying while his countrymen were being overrun, I would be more inclined to shoot the man myself than help him out in any way.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 30, 2003, 06:26:11 AM
Mouseclicker, I did get your point in the soldier/mental illness/physical disibility question. I was just trying to point out that someone who is lying on the ground after/during a battle with severe injuries is not the same as someone who has a mental illness. Anyway, of course people who have mental illness should be treated. I am just not sure that the kids who "crack" and shoot their peers are really mentally ill. As I said in my last post, I really would like to know what has changed, especially in America, that so many kids are doing this kind of thing.
Post by: The Omen on July 30, 2003, 06:49:13 AM
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Don't even try that with me- if you HAD been in some these kids's shoes, you'd either have killed yourself and be dead right now or be in a federal prison for having killed other people. I KNOW that because I can guarantee that nobody here could stand what they have without snapping. And don't try to convince me otherwise- it's not worth it.
That sounds like a 15 yr olds view.
Believe it or not, Mouse_Clicker, i wasn't aiming at you when talking about the younger generation, but now that you've made a ridiculous comment, i am. I am not going to share my expereinces with a bunch of strangers who i couldn't care less about. I will just say, i've been through a lot, and it has made me tougher, more cynical and less trusting of people. That works for me. You know what? I never thought about taking anothers life because i decided to use the negative energy to my advantage. I wanted to get my revenge by being who i wanted, and if people wanted to make fun, so be it. And you know what? Once you get out of school , people who are the 'misfits' are much more widely accepted, and it just is easier to be yourself. The worlds is ugly, no doubt, but by that point you should be hardened. Unlike these kids who are crying 'whoa is me' all the time. Suck it up!
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And don't try to convince me otherwise- it's not worth it.
You're right, it's not.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on July 30, 2003, 11:20:52 AM
Today this generation is under far different conditions. We are trapped between the remnants of the hippy movement, and of their children who wish to keep people from feeling the harm of what happened to their generation. We have on one side, a dying group that while trying to teach a great lesson of equality, lost the very thing they wanted for everyone, equality. When you see a hippy on the street, do you salute them? Do you even give them a nice look? Or do you snicker, look away, or avoid them? What makes them different, different from the men who fought in the army? Did all hippies think and talk badly of soldiers, far from it. Were all the soldiers who fought in wars valient fighters? What is the difference? The hippies fought for civil rights, equality, and a long list of other things, and the soldiers fought for freedom of other countries. It is true that many soldiers engaged in the same activities hippies did, substense abuse, free and unprotected sex, but the views people have of them are entirely different.
I think what is happening today is similar. Today, if you choose to be different, you aren't going to get the respect the people who do will. People are so extremely harsh towards hippies, yet today there are very few people who do not have atleast a mild sense of respect for veterans. How many hippies are proud to admit what they fought for? How many veterans will tell you of how deeply they love this country because they fought for what they believe in?
These two groups are so very similar, but one of them was treated so very harshly in the end. This group has all but died. They are shunned, and many do lead a very lonely exhistence. If not lonely, they have changed their ideals for various reasons, but often enough it was because they didn't want to be different anymore.
Now lets look at our generation. Fighting is rarely a concevable option, people lack the confidence in themselves that past generations may have had. People say that as we increase in size we are bound to be more diverse and such, but diversity has nothing to do with it. Diversity was never the problem, as I have seen people who will willingly accept anyone no matter who they are, or know nothing about their culture. The real issue is that we need their to be diversity. People depend on so often of finding differences in each other, because it makes you feel good to be different, or bad if you expect it. People are so quick to criticize someone when they act differently because they don't like how people act. They want everything to be just unpredictable enough so they don't have to realize that if they mess up they need to start over, but at the same time need help from others.
I have sidetracked a lot, so I will rap this up shortly.
About not caring about the kids who do the shootings.
I will quote marilyn manson when he was asked what he would say to the columbine shooters, "Nothing, I would listen to them because obviously no one else did."
If you read this far I am impressed.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 11:22:42 AM
And now we've come full circle. I'm asking you to place yourself in the shoes of kids like that- how do you think you would've handled it? Could you have come out of it unscathed, or a better question would be sane? Human beings have emotions for a reason, to help out their fellow man- you could call it our evolutionial trump. To be cold and unresponsive isn't human nature. MY point is that it's fine for you to pass judgement over someone you don't even know, much less have any idea what he's going through, but if you were ever in that position yourself you wouldn't fare any better. Your view is one selfishness, one where you can't feel compassion for your fellow man unless he's about to die. I'm just asking you to understand that just sucking it up and taking it like a man is much easier said than, especially when you're not altogether there in the first place. Your view is spawned by your inability to imagine what they're going through. I guess there's no changing your or Omen's opinion, though, except through personal experience. Like I said, when you need help, as you invariably will, I hope the person that happens to be there in your time of need doesn't sahre your defeatist and selfish views. When you're able to care for others less fortunate than you, that's when you've made the jump to humanity. You and Omen are still lingering somewhere behind.
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I will quote marilyn manson when he was asked what he would say to the columbine shooters, "Nothing, I would listen to them because obviously no one else did."
EXACTLY. Besides the fact no one probably took him seriously because he IS so different, that embodies what I'm trying to say perfectly (I wish I was that concise). Grey Ninja and Omen's solution is to ignore them when that's only going to cultivate the problem and make it worse. What people like them need is for someone to help them through what was hapenning- it's not all about who's the strongest or who can take the most punishment. If a teacher had talked with them or they had gone to a therapist there would have BEEN no shooting at Columbine. Would Grey Ninja and Omen's solution of further ridicule have produced a result like that?
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 30, 2003, 12:05:08 PM
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And now we've come full circle. I'm asking you to place yourself in the shoes of kids like that- how do you think you would've handled it? Could you have come out of it unscathed, or a better question would be sane?
You don't know me. And from your statement, it's perfectly obvious you haven't listened to a damn thing I said.
I am just going to say it now. You don't understand what that kid is going through, while myself and Omen somewhat do. You are 14 years old, have two loving parents, you obviously haven't ever experienced true hardship, and don't have a freaking clue what you are talking about. You just think that you are doing the right thing by standing up for what you see as the world coming down on a poor innocent kid. In your self-righteousness, you have forgotten some of the things you have said in this thread.
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You're no better than the jocks and preps who get shot up at school shootings!
People, THIS is why school shootings happen
To me, this says that you are justifying school shootings. You have never experienced one, and you have only your own interpretation to go on.
Let me tell you some things. One of my good friends, who I still talk to on MSN to this day was the brother of the person who came into my high school and shot his fellow students. He was a good person, but how the hell do you think he feels about his brother? The person he killed was someone who was gentle and wouldn't hurt a fly. Did he do something to the shooter to make the shooting happen?
Quit trying to f*cking glorify student shootings, and change the f*cking title of this thread. Now.
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And I seriously doubt even you could handle 500 kids making fun of you all day every day- I know I couldn't.
Evidence that you have no freaking clue what you are talking about. I have been in that situation, as I am sure that many of the people here have been. You obviously have not. Those of us who HAVE been in that situation are telling Mr. Star Wars kid to sit down and STFU. What does that tell you?
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When someone's having a nervous breakdown (which is obviously necessary for someone to kill their classmates or be put in a mental ward) they need help and support, not people telling them to get up and face it like a man. You're only adding to their burden.
Telling someone to stop sitting in the corner crying like a baby and to go out and fight like a man is a burden? Give me a break. Talk to me about this again in 10 years is all I have to say.
Anyways, like I said, I DO NOT want to argue this further. Just take the frickin silver spoon out of your mouth and open up your eyes sometime. You might see that this happy singing utopia you see is only skin deep. If you want to make something out of yourself in this world, you have to have one person you can always trust. That is yourself. Star Wars Kid has abused that trust.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 30, 2003, 12:12:24 PM
Since you brought up hippies and veterans it makes me think of all the veterans who came home during/after the Vietnam war. These were not veterans who were looked at with respect. It is widely known that they were treated very badly upon their return to the US. I know you meant veterans in general, but hippies co-existed with Vietnam vets and both,you could say, got treated badly in the end.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 12:19:45 PM
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I am just going to say it now. You don't understand what that kid is going through, while myself and Omen somewhat do. You are 14 years old, have two loving parents, you obviously haven't ever experienced true hardship, and don't have a freaking clue what you are talking about. You just think that you are doing the right thing by standing up for what you see as the world coming down on a poor innocent kid. In your self-righteousness, you have forgotten some of the things you have said in this thread.
Actually, I'm 15- I've said so at least 10 times in this thread. Even if your life has been a living hell what gives you the right to pass judgement on people you don't even know. AT LEAST withhold your judgement until you meet the person. What I'M trying to say is that no one should be left behind- you've taken a much more brutal approach to it, one that I think is heartless because you're letting your fellow man spiral down into his own private hell. I'd think that going through hell yourself would give you more compassion for the people that are going through the same thing. Why do you resent people that need help? That's the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard.
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To me, this says that you are justifying school shootings. You have never experienced one, and you have only your own interpretation to go on.
And you're accusing ME of not reading what YOU'RE saying? How many times have I said shooting people to solve your problems is wrong? How many times have I said I do NOT condone violence as an answer to the problem? You come in here saying I'M the one who doesn't understand YOU when it's beyond obvious that you have absolutely no idea what I mean! I am NOT on the opposite spectrum of you- my opinions do NOT contradict yours at every turn. I thought you would have realized that. What I'm SAYING is that people who WILL shoot their fellow classmates need help. If that kid in yoru school had gone to see a therapist or his parents had talked to him, maybe, JUST maybe, some of your friends would still be alive. How on EARTH is your view going to change a single god damned thing?
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Quit trying to f*cking glorify student shootings, and change the f*cking title of this thread. Now.
Who the hell ever said I WAS? You read two sentences of my opinion and then assume you know what I mean. Just because I don't approve of kids being made fun of every day of their life by everyone who should be their friends does NOT mean I approve of them turning around blowing these kids away. What the hell ever gave you that idea? Have you read ANYTHING I've said?
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Those of us who HAVE been in that situation are telling Mr. Star Wars kid to sit down and STFU. What does that tell you?
That tells me that you're only adding to the problem. If you had said to get the kid who shot people at your school to sit down and STFU, would he had listened and sudennly been perfectly fine? Hell no! It would've only pushed him further!
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Telling someone to stop sitting in the corner crying like a baby and to go out and fight like a man is a burden? Give me a break. Talk to me about this again in 10 years is all I have to say.
What's it going to help? Tell me that- what's it going to help?
Anyways, like I said, I DO NOT want to argue this further. Just take the frickin silver spoon out of your mouth and open up your eyes sometime. You might see that this happy singing utopia you see is only skin deep. If you want to make something out of yourself in this world, you have to have one person you can always trust. That is yourself. Star Wars Kid has abused that trust.
Abnd who the hell are you to pass judgement on me? Besides that, why the hell are you even TRYING to attack my integrity? That's only an excuse because you've been force feeding me the same crap since the beginning of the thread and you can't come up with anything new. What if I HAD been through your same ordeal and still kept my opinion? What would THAT change? Tell me.
Ninja, this would only come as a shock to you if you hadn't read what I've been saying- I AGREE with you. I agree that people who can't overcome their own problems aren't honorable and that those who do deserve all the respect they get. I AGREE with you in that respect. But that doesn't mean I think the people who CAN'T overcome their own problems should be left behind to rot like they were some forgotten pet. I'm NOT on the opposite pole as you here, and your difficulty in getting what I'm saying comes from your assumption that I AM. If you can get over the fact that there are people that share opinions with both sides, THEN you'll start to see what I mean.
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These were not veterans who were looked at with respect. It is widely known that they were treated very badly upon their return to the US.
Which I think is horrible, and for two main reasons. One, that most of the people who fought in Vietnam were drafted and a lot of them didn't even want to fight because they disagreed so much with what the war meant. Who could blame them when they didn't even have a choice of whether or not to fight? And two because a lot of the soldiers that returned had some deep psychological issues- very few people could be in such a situation and be unchanged when they returned. That was a time when they needed the most aid, to help them get through the ordeal they had just been through. But when people ignore them, their state only intensifies to the point where they go insane.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 30, 2003, 12:38:29 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on July 30, 2003, 12:39:26 PM
About hippies for me: the south really has shunned them. Even the guys in the NAACP that marched with them during the civil rights movement are known to talk badly of them.
And as for the militairy, god here it is a tradition. I barely know anyone who doesn't have atleast a family member that served.
Lets see, military bases I can think of in sc:
fort jackson basic training facility (largest bt base in us)
macentire air national guard
shaw air force based (deployed to EVERY conflict involving air power since vietnam(
paris island (I dont think any explanation needed)
the citadel: marine college
those are teh only ones on the top of my head, but the point is, the military is boss here, if you are a veteran wearing some identity showing it, you will be saluted atleast 4 times a day. I wouldn't expect anything like that in northern california, especially around berkeley.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 12:45:29 PM
Post by: >X< Kitten >X< on July 30, 2003, 12:48:05 PM
Post by: ThePerm on July 30, 2003, 01:21:55 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 30, 2003, 01:35:27 PM
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Actually, I'm 15- I've said so at least 10 times in this thread.
Sorry. I couldn't remember your age. One year doesn't truly make that much of a difference though.
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Even if your life has been a living hell what gives you the right to pass judgement on people you don't even know. AT LEAST withhold your judgement until you meet the person.
Same goes to you.
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What I'M trying to say is that no one should be left behind- you've taken a much more brutal approach to it, one that I think is heartless because you're letting your fellow man spiral down into his own private hell. I'd think that going through hell yourself would give you more compassion for the people that are going through the same thing. Why do you resent people that need help? That's the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard.
My personal philosophy on that is that you shouldn't help a man who's unwilling to help himself. The Star Wars Kid simply gave up instead of fighting the good fight. I will let the Star Wars Kid spiral down into hell all he likes. His problems aren't that severe, in spite of what you might think, and he has simply given up.
This jumped out at me:
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Abnd who the hell are you to pass judgement on me? Besides that, why the hell are you even TRYING to attack my integrity? That's only an excuse because you've been force feeding me the same crap since the beginning of the thread and you can't come up with anything new. What if I HAD been through your same ordeal and still kept my opinion? What would THAT change? Tell me.
It would change your stance on this matter I am sure. You have book smarts regarding this, but you don't have first hand knowledge. It's difficult to judge something that you haven't seen yourself.
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Ninja, this would only come as a shock to you if you hadn't read what I've been saying- I AGREE with you. I agree that people who can't overcome their own problems aren't honorable and that those who do deserve all the respect they get. I AGREE with you in that respect. But that doesn't mean I think the people who CAN'T overcome their own problems should be left behind to rot like they were some forgotten pet. I'm NOT on the opposite pole as you here, and your difficulty in getting what I'm saying comes from your assumption that I AM. If you can get over the fact that there are people that share opinions with both sides, THEN you'll start to see what I mean.
Contrary to what you might think, I am having mixed thoughts on this myself, but I fight at the extreme edge because I am required to. It's just the way I do things. I think about all the help I received recently from friends and family, and I think about where I might be without it. But I fight to let the Star Wars Kid rot not because he is unable to help himself, but because he is unwilling.
You talked earlier about there being no difference between physical disability and mental disability. That's simply a falsehood. The human mind is very resilient, and it's entirely possible for someone to fix things in their head on their own. It's called courage. Courage is something that must be created by a person, and is not something you are born with. If the Star Wars Kid would just show some balls, he could easily get himself out of this mess without being none the poorer. But he doesn't. For that reason, he deserves to rot.
And you know something? It's true what the Omen said. After High School is over, everything changes. The people who were picked on become the ones with power, and the ones who picked on them lose every bit of power they had after high school. It's an interesting fate, but it's true.
You know half the reason why the picked on become powerful after high school? Because they made it through on their own strengths.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 30, 2003, 02:13:28 PM
I agree with everybody somewhat, but I agree with nobody completely.
We are a happy family, here. HAPPY FAMILY.
"And you know something? It's true what the Omen said. After High School is over, everything changes. The people who were picked on become the ones with power, and the ones who picked on them lose every bit of power they had after high school. It's an interesting fate, but it's true."
That makes me happy, if you know what i mean.
Just kidding, I bever really get picked on, but a have a horrible self esteem and a persicution complex (well, my parents say I have a persicution complex, but they're just being mean to me.
Wow, look at this. A nice, short post that doesn't really make anybody angry. I'm going back to reading the aussie thread, now.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 02:35:30 PM
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Sorry. I couldn't remember your age. One year doesn't truly make that much of a difference though
That wasn't what I meant- I've mentioned my age many times, both in this thread and out, and my birthdate is in my profile. To me that shows that you're not observant enough- you should pick up every detail that the person you're debating with gives. For instance, I knew Omen was 29 even though he didn't say in this thread.
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Same goes to you.
I never said I was unwilling. You've already played judge, jury, and executioner and decided how this person's life should go.
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My personal philosophy on that is that you shouldn't help a man who's unwilling to help himself. The Star Wars Kid simply gave up instead of fighting the good fight. I will let the Star Wars Kid spiral down into hell all he likes. His problems aren't that severe, in spite of what you might think, and he has simply given up.
I agree with you somewhat- I think, however, that giving up before you even try to help the person is just as defeatist. You should at least try to get the person to help himself. Say a friend of yours had a horrible heroine addicition and he really wanted to break the addicition but had given up, would you give up on him, too, or would you still try to get him into rehab? It's so easy to condemn someone you don't even know. Could you watch the kid spiral on into his own hell? Are you strong enough to sit through that and still come out of it thinking it was the right thing to do?
And like I've said many times before, the Star Wars kid is only an example- when I talk about things like that I'm mainly talking about the kids who do flip out and shoot someone (which I do NOT approve of, for the record).
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It would change your stance on this matter I am sure. You have book smarts regarding this, but you don't have first hand knowledge. It's difficult to judge something that you haven't seen yourself.
How can you be so sure? You said yourself it's difficult to judge something you haven't seen yourself, yet you don't even know what I look like. Can you really judge ME then? You came down on my for doing the same thing to you.
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Contrary to what you might think, I am having mixed thoughts on this myself, but I fight at the extreme edge because I am required to. It's just the way I do things. I think about all the help I received recently from friends and family, and I think about where I might be without it. But I fight to let the Star Wars Kid rot not because he is unable to help himself, but because he is unwilling.
Why do you do that? It makes no sense to fight for something you don't believe in. How can you know that what you're saying is right when you don't even believe in it fully yourself? Everything I've said I believe in 100%- I'm not going to take the polar opposite of someone just because I can.
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You talked earlier about there being no difference between physical disability and mental disability. That's simply a falsehood. The human mind is very resilient, and it's entirely possible for someone to fix things in their head on their own. It's called courage. Courage is something that must be created by a person, and is not something you are born with. If the Star Wars Kid would just show some balls, he could easily get himself out of this mess without being none the poorer. But he doesn't. For that reason, he deserves to rot.
Complete and utter BS- see absolutely no different between someone who is mentally handicapped as opposed to someone who is phyiscally handicapped. The nature of their handicap does not change the fact that they are handicapped and telling either to suck it up won't do a single thing to help them. The human mind is NOT resilient- look at us! We're getting worked up over an internet debate! The human mind is weak- it can't full comprehend what's going on and because of that it's scared. Humans are so scared we make up things to calm ourselves down. Just because humans HAVE emotions doesn't mean they're strong, and that fact presents itself every second of every day. And if you honestly believe someone can fix their own mental affliction on their own, there's no point to even be debating. A cousin of mine is brain damaged- he's almost 13 but he acts like he's 5. He can't do anything about it, it's not his choice. Do you REALLY think someone who's in an advanced state of dementia can just snap out of it at a whim? That's like an alcoholic saying he can quite whenever he wants- it's NOT true.
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And you know something? It's true what the Omen said. After High School is over, everything changes. The people who were picked on become the ones with power, and the ones who picked on them lose every bit of power they had after high school. It's an interesting fate, but it's true.
Believe me, I know- I've been saying that for years.
Quote
You know half the reason why the picked on become powerful after high school? Because they made it through on their own strengths.
That has absolutely nothing to do with it, though. The REAL reason the picked on become the powerful is the reason they were picked on. People who are smart, who have different ways of doing things, are seperated and railed on- look at what manunited's been saying. The people that ridicule them don't suceed because of the character flaw that enables them to ridicule without experiencing remorse. It's called a conscious, Ninja, and without a conscious you won't suceed in the world (well, most of the time). The people that are ridiculed are the smart ones, the nerds, the ones that are always looking ahead, preparing themselves for the future and that's WHY they're ridiculed. It has nothing to do with becoming stronger because you were picked on. People have been calling me a nerd or a geek since 1st grade and I'm not a stronger person because of it. If you're strong enough to shake off what other people think of you, that's something that you'll decide, not them.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 30, 2003, 02:52:59 PM
I just watched The Void and Idiot Ninjas again though, so I am just loopy right now. I am a quite happy drunk right now. Anyways, I just wanted to say that I really love you right now. I can tell right now that I am going to object to the extreme to your post tomorrow, and I am going to regret writing this post, and that's why I am posting it.
I love pissing my sober self off. He's so logical it drives me nuts. I still agree with him on this issue, but I was laughing the whole time I read your post. I don't recall what you said at the moment, but I am sure it was good.What I always loved about you was that you argue with the same logic that my sober self does. You might be misguided and wrong on this issue, but you always fight for your beliefs, and you do in fact posess a knowledge "beyond your years". I say that because that's what my Bio teacher wrote on my reference letter when I asked him for one once. You remind me of a younger version of myself in a lot of ways. That's part of the reason why my sober part demands that you be told what's what in a fast hurry. He doesn't like some of the traits you are developing. He thinks it's unhealthy.
Yeah, I think I am a little bit schizophrenic, but don't tell anyone ok? He doesn't normally read his own posts, and I am hoping this gets by him completely. Just please don't egg him on too far ok? He has already lost a good deal of respect for you, and he has had some rough times in his life. It makes him quite defensive.
Oh sh!t... I have to work in 3 hours, and I am piss drunk. this isn't going to be pretty. I am going to put him to bed. nighty night.
Post by: ThePerm on July 30, 2003, 03:01:56 PM
and grey ninja...alcohol? Your alway lackign money and your like a starving programmer and you have mone yfor alcohol. You could have had Xenosaga had it not for the alcohol! You know it.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 03:14:07 PM
And I don't really mean to be derisive and rude. I only do it because it's the internet and I can get away with it (although I suspect the first admin to look upon this will lock it immediatley). I've never been one to take any insults seriously whether they were intended to be or not and I hope you're the same way. Anyway, my back is killing me so I'm gonna go lie down.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 30, 2003, 03:14:23 PM
Mouse clicker...I just dont feel like you know anything about the real world and what goes on.
Post by: The Omen on July 30, 2003, 03:19:39 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 03:25:21 PM
And Hitman, who's actually YOUNGER than I am, it'd be nice if you elaborated on that point a bit.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 30, 2003, 03:30:42 PM
I know that I am prepared to call this one a stalemate. I know that the sober me has a tendency to become enraged at a lot of things though, so I won't give a final answer. I will just drink my sake in peace, and try to sober up by osmosis before I have to go to work. I also bought some Dentine Ice Intense while I was at the store just in case.
I am off to watch Memento. I heard it was good, and twisted. That's what I like.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on July 30, 2003, 05:25:12 PM
I agree with mouse clicker on this guy should not be judged, but for a different reason. How long did it take you guys to read the first post? 3 minutes maybe? How long was the video? 30 seconds? Okay. You know 3 minutes and 30 seconds of what happened. You spent 3 minutes and 30 seconds on this kid, and you feel you can judge what he has been through?
I really don't see how you can judge several months of god knows what in 210 seconds. I just really can't.
I mean what do we know?
-we know he was mocked by his school
-we know he was ridiculed on the internet
-we know he is in a mental institution at the moment or was
-we know his parents have filed a lawsuit
-we know he is receiving some money from groups, and possibly a part in star wars
what do we not know
-what exactly the mental breakdown he suffered was
-how severe the breakdown is
-the long term effects
-the outcome of the lawsuit
-his past
-his bullies' past
-how long he has gone through this
I could go on for a long time about what we don't know, because we barely know anything. We really don't. We are making inferences that this kid will be okay, or won't be okay, based on what our beliefs of human nature are based on.
I mean I really have to wonder, how hard will it be for him to get back on his feet? I really do hope that he will get over this, move on, and be better for it, but I really don't think this will be that easy for him. I just really can't.
I thought I had posted a part about mental diseases before, guess I didn't, but I won't redo that post, as I covered most of it in this one.
I just really have to ask you guys, do you think that the little information you know about him justifies you coming down on him? 210 seconds to that several months he has been through. Even if that little you know about him sounds similar to what you have been through, or even less than what you have been through, are you willing to jump to the conclusion that he should and would be able to get through this by himself? If you do, make more judgments in the future, but I only ask you to take into baring how little you know of what has transpired, and that most of your assumptions, are far from fact, and much further from justification.
Just my thoughts.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 06:34:13 PM
Ninja: Just be forwarned that an extra fresh breath may draw more suspicion than you'd think.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 31, 2003, 04:16:44 PM
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And Hitman, who's actually YOUNGER than I am, it'd be nice if you elaborated on that point a bit.
Why are you stressing the point that I'm a few months younger then you? 14 and 15 arent too much of a difference. Anyway, you seem like the kid that knows tons of information, but if you had to live in the real world you couldn't. You seem like your parents do everything for you, ie, cook for you, wash your clothes, etc etc.
People have hardships to conquer everyday. If you sit back and let them crush you like this kid did, your proving nothing but the fact that you gave up and let everyone beat you. If you stick up for yourself and not let these kids push you around, it shows your not just a little kid. If this every happened to me and someone made fun of me, they would definetly be able to describe the taste of my shoe. I don't take that kind of BS, neither should other kids. Every day in my computer class I see the nerd kids get picked on. They get called names and people throw things at them. What do they do? Sit there with a smile on their face because you cant crush them.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 31, 2003, 04:38:13 PM
First off, that was a joke. Second off, the only thing you know about me is what you can glean from my profile- My name is Eric Baker, I was born on March 3rd, 1988 (which you've obviously looked at that if you know exactly how much older I am than you), and I live in Derby, Kansas. How can you honestly say you know enough about me to say how I live my life? Don't judge lest ye be judged- I could just as easily say the same about you and you'd be equally offended. Unless you're right by me every day of my life, don't make assumptions about how I live it, which is exactly what you're doing.
The rest of your post was the same stuff Ninja and Omen have been throwing at me since page 1, things which I've already adressed multiple times.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 31, 2003, 04:49:42 PM
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First off, that was a joke. Second off, the only thing you know about me is what you can glean from my profile- My name is Eric Baker, I was born on March 3rd, 1988 (which you've obviously looked at that if you know exactly how much older I am than you), and I live in Derby, Kansas. How can you honestly say you know enough about me to say how I live my life? Don't judge lest ye be judged- I could just as easily say the same about you and you'd be equally offended. Unless you're right by me every day of my life, don't make assumptions about how I live it, which is exactly what you're doing.
Well if it wasn't true you wouldn't be the least offended, but apparently it is true. I say that because your making comments about real life situations that you haven't faced and your acting like you have the solution to the problem, but you don't. Nobody does because nobody on this board is that kid and doesn't know what he went through.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 31, 2003, 04:53:18 PM
And just because someone would be offended by the comment doesn't say whether it's true or not. On the one hand I could be offended that you think you know how I live my life, whether it were true or not, and on the other hand I could be offended that you would accuse me of that. Don't make assumptions.
And since you're all for not claiming to know what's going on in people's lives, stop trying to do the same for me. I tried to do it with Ninja and got a lot of backlash for it.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 31, 2003, 05:03:49 PM
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t's not better than me saying your avatar is cartoony, so you must spend more time watching cartoons than anything productive.
Well your avatar is a mouse, so you must eat mice. Your throwing a hissy fit now, dont blow your top. I dont care if you say you do cook your own breakfast, I think my sister can heat up pop tarts to. I just think you know a whole lot about the real world. I don't think you've ever been with girls, or do anything for yourself. I think its all done for you and you have a problem admitting it, but thats just me. You can spend all the time you want trying to convince me otherwise, but thats just what I think.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 31, 2003, 05:24:16 PM
I have taken flak for this before, because people feel that they need to see someone eye to eye to really know them, but I would rather learn about people through their opinions and views than by looking them in the eye.
Mouse, I might not be 100% accurate about you, but I think I have a pretty good idea of who you are and how you think.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 31, 2003, 08:58:04 PM
Ninja: Hehe, try me.
I act VERY differently online than I do in real life- if this was an actual debate between you and me in person, I'm sure it would've gone much differently, at least my side would. The internet gives people a sense of anonymity that removes a lot of their inhibitions. It's like when you're in a car and you call some guy who cut you off an @$$hole. You're connecting with the care and not the person- most people wouldn't call the guy an @$$hole to his face. I'm much more fiery and out of control online. In real life, I'm a much more reserved person. I never insult someone to their face (or behind their backs, for that matter)- it's just not the kind of person I am. But I have very few qualms doing it online since all I'm seeing of you guys are your screen names with no face to associate them with.
Post by: Uglydot on August 01, 2003, 03:55:46 AM
Ninja-you never really know 100% about anyone, and everyone bullshits on the net.
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 01, 2003, 04:03:52 AM
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Ninja-you never really know 100% about anyone, and everyone bullshits on the net.
I never claimed to know 100%. I don't even know 100% of myself. But really, it's the bullshit that defines us in a way.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 01, 2003, 06:42:33 AM
----------------
You seem like your parents do everything for you, ie, cook for you, wash your clothes, etc etc.
__________
You have a problem with people who have parents who do everything for us?
I'm not personally offended by it or anything, but I like to at least have a good sit down dinner with my family, and what's wrong with mum washing the clothes for you?
Your parents are a great help to you. If you are one of those people that want to leave home as soon as they finish school, then bloody hell, rethink it. Moving out on your own, finding yourself low on cash, then dissing people who still live with their parents is a bit contradictory and hypocrytical, don't you think?
Of course, this don't apply to you Hitman or Mouse Clicker, nor to Grey ninja, just those typr of people in general.
Am I a mamma's boy?
Yes. I love my mum (and dad - haha). If I could, I'd live with them forever. But does that make me less sociable, like a loser you make the Star Wars kid to be? No. I go out with my friends every chance i get. Thing is, I wasn't able to since most of them turned 18 months ago, and i wasn't able to do the things they did (like go to bars, etc). That's why turning 18 on Tuesday was such a big deal for me - now I can have a legal drink with the fellas!
Yeah!!
Thing is, i don't know what my parents would do if i were ridiculed to that extent, but i know for sure as hell they wouldn't leave me to try and suck it up and defend myself.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on August 01, 2003, 08:35:07 AM
Just want to get a feel for myself how this is being taken.
Post by: Uglydot on August 01, 2003, 09:42:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey NinjaQuote
Ninja-you never really know 100% about anyone, and everyone bullshits on the net.
I never claimed to know 100%. I don't even know 100% of myself. But really, it's the bullshit that defines us in a way.
This is true, since who I am is only defined for you by how I act towards you on this forum. The feelings or thoughts that I keep to myself are useless and meaningless in this forum. We know each other only based on what we say here, anything else is meaningless. So, it's not really bullshit that defines us, but the amount of bullshit and actualy sincere comments we make.
To some of the other posts:
Having parents that do a lot for you is nothing to be ashamed of. My parents are relativly hands-off. I do my laundry, make my food, drive myself around, buy my own things, and pretty well plan my own life. I am given assistance where I need it, taxes, college loans, applying for college and the like. But were I less independant and they more hands-on, then I wouldn't be less of a person. I like to do things for myself if I can. If not, it is useless to attempt to do things that I cannot when someone perfectly capable can. I am in no rush to leave and "be on my own". But I don't plan on living here beyond college summers once I am off. Who cares if my parents helped me more or less, and who cares if some of you guys have parents who help you more or less. It is just stupid to tell someone more capable than you are(in most cases) to not help.
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 11:49:47 AM
Quote
Just out of curiosity how old do you guys think I am.
I could be wrong, but I've always imgained you being like 19 or 20- at the very least 18.
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 01, 2003, 02:18:41 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 03:11:17 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 01, 2003, 03:14:33 PM
EDIT: Just checked, I guess manunited (can't remember exact name) never stated his name over at the what type of gamer are you thread. could've sworn it...
So? Am I right? Where's my prize?
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 03:29:41 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 01, 2003, 03:48:03 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 03:52:00 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on August 01, 2003, 04:00:36 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 06:02:01 PM
Us 1.5 decaders gotta stick together. Little tots like KnowsNothing best watch out.
Post by: Mario on August 01, 2003, 06:12:48 PM
I feel so old
Post by: PIAC on August 01, 2003, 08:32:41 PM
i am not 10 years old, im just really imature when the situation calls for it im pretty much like i am here in real life, not that i have much of a life anymore but ohwell. i take almost nothing seriously, a light hearted aproach is the best! *nods head*also hitman, you smell
taking shots at mouse_clicker based at what he writes here is .... utterly stupid. 'i bet you haven't even been with girls' -__- mouse_clicker could be the biggest stud this side of vivid videos and just because he shows people compasion you think hes an idiot, well sir i dont like that much at all, and i give you the big piac rubber stamp of smellyness.and i wouldn't have picked scumunited4eva22 for 15, but then he does follow a scum team
(what that has todo with his age i dont know, but... man u suck TOOOOOOOOOOOOOON)
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 08:53:40 PM
Post by: PIAC on August 01, 2003, 10:02:32 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 10:55:44 PM
Post by: PIAC on August 01, 2003, 11:42:04 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 02, 2003, 05:01:54 AM
"I smell!"
60-100% off... I'm used to it.
Post by: HiTmaN on August 02, 2003, 02:12:21 PM
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also hitman, you smell taking shots at mouse_clicker based at what he writes here is .... utterly stupid. 'i bet you haven't even been with girls' -__- mouse_clicker could be the biggest stud this side of vivid videos and just because he shows people compasion you think hes an idiot, well sir i dont like that much at all, and i give you the big piac rubber stamp of smellyness.
Quote
and i wouldn't have picked scumunited4eva22 for 15, but then he does follow a scum team (what that has todo with his age i dont know, but... man u suck TOOOOOOOOOOOOOON)
Ladies and gentlemen, this is why we DONT drop out of high school.
Post by: PIAC on August 02, 2003, 03:49:21 PM
you were pointlessly attacking mouse_clicker, i stand up for him and now you attack me well i say to you 'this is why we have forum moderators'
edit: the last comment was for manunited4eva22's bennifit only, or anyone else that follows the english premier league. so try to understand these things before casting your slander.
Post by: HiTmaN on August 02, 2003, 04:03:59 PM
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what has that got todo with highschool? especially the last part. infact, wtf has your entire post got todo with anything? i stand by my words, and you seem to think that makes me a highschool drop out?
The fact that you type like a drunk 7 year old with no education.
Quote
you were pointlessly attacking mouse_clicker, i stand up for him and now you attack me well i say to you 'this is why we have forum moderators'
I didn't attack him, I let him know my opinions about him, as he let me know his opinions about me. Now I let you know my opinions about you because you had to open your mouth and say something like someone was talking to you.
Post by: PIAC on August 02, 2003, 04:22:30 PM
your opinion about me is that i type like a drunk 7 year old with no education? well thats just dandy, i would like some proof please. i may type with a light hearted style, but thats because thats how i am, i could have said 'your a giant git whos brain is lodged somewhere between your lower colen and your sphincter' but thats not me, i would much rather argue in a silly sort of fashion because there is too much angry flame warfare on forums which is why im not a forum person.
blergh, i wont continue this because its infantile, and i would much rather be playing skies of arcadia or being involved in more intelectualy stimulating conversation, or something fun and immature
.and you still smell
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 04:47:59 PM
If the only advice you ever accepted was solicited, you'd be in a rut. Sometimes it's the guy who doesn't have anything to do with it that has the clearest picture of what's going on.
Post by: HiTmaN on August 02, 2003, 06:22:39 PM
Quote
your opinion about me is that i type like a drunk 7 year old with no education? well thats just dandy, i would like some proof please. i may type with a light hearted style, but thats because thats how i am, i could have said 'your a giant git whos brain is lodged somewhere between your lower colen and your sphincter' but thats not me, i would much rather argue in a silly sort of fashion because there is too much angry flame warfare on forums which is why im not a forum person.
How many times must you mention your "light heartedness". You talk about it like someone cares...anyway I still think mousey is just a kid who knows alot of school stuff, but nothing about real life. You can keep replying all you want but your not going to change my mind, so why continue to post things nobody cares about? Lets get to the topic at hand and reroute this thread to a real conversation.
Post by: PIAC on August 02, 2003, 07:11:04 PM
and if you dont care why did you bother to reply ;P
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 07:15:23 PM
Post by: HiTmaN on August 02, 2003, 07:15:47 PM
Quote
blergh, i wont continue this because its infantile, and i would much rather be playing skies of arcadia or being involved in more intelectualy stimulating conversation, or something fun and immature .
I thought you had better things to do then sit around waiting for me to post, and you post right after me. Oh well, you dropouts dont have much to do :-/ anyway I'm done posting in this thread, I've said what I needed to say. Toodalooo.
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 07:18:03 PM
Post by: PIAC on August 02, 2003, 07:23:47 PM
so i can do both you know how i got those 2 tvs? by having a job and buying them, just my pc, and fridge, and games, and 'drop outs' dont exactly have great job prospects now do they. and its the weekend, and im actually finnished school (im 18)
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 07:33:35 PM
Post by: Mario on August 02, 2003, 07:35:47 PM
*cough*coward*cough*
Post by: HiTmaN on August 02, 2003, 09:14:40 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 09:27:12 PM
Post by: HiTmaN on August 03, 2003, 10:23:54 AM
Quote
Oh wait, you're getting offended he called you a coward, hitman- that must mean you are one. Going by your own logic, of course.
Dont you hate stupid people trying to be smart?
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on August 03, 2003, 10:29:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: HiTmaNQuote
Well if it wasn't true you wouldn't be the least offended, but apparently it is true.
Hitman, he's just trying to make a point.
Post by: PIAC on August 03, 2003, 02:56:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: HiTmaNQuote
Oh wait, you're getting offended he called you a coward, hitman- that must mean you are one. Going by your own logic, of course.
Dont you hate stupid people trying to be smart?
yes i do dislike you
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2003, 03:04:43 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 03, 2003, 03:25:19 PM
That's sure a good name for a game.
*patents name*
*takes 20 years before is able to gather decent developent team*
*game takes 4 years to make*
*game bombs around the world*
Damn.....
Post by: The Omen on August 03, 2003, 08:11:29 PM
Post by: Mario on August 03, 2003, 08:13:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
What the hell happened in here?
Hitman came in and made everyone dumber.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 04, 2003, 04:06:48 AM
I LOVE that line!
Post by: manunited4eva22 on August 04, 2003, 03:50:02 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on August 04, 2003, 03:51:28 PM
And about the scumunited
He's right, we premier whores do understand.
Oh yes, I remember why manchester has been beating the crap out of the field in the champions world contest. It's because we are scum
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 04, 2003, 07:52:12 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 04, 2003, 08:21:27 PM
I have no idea when it all started.
I think it went from dissing/pitying the Star Wars kid, to dissing Hitman.......
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 04, 2003, 08:26:31 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 04, 2003, 09:25:08 PM
Post by: PIAC on August 04, 2003, 11:30:12 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on August 05, 2003, 11:19:54 AM
The whole idea of god, as I understand it anyway, has always been for man to have a reason for something, to explain why we exhist, why we are here, why things happen etc. In christianity, as well in many other religions, people are taught to be humble, to be caring for other humans, to be nice, etc. and for these same reasons they alienated some people.
A lot of people don't want to be told what is right or wrong, they need to find out their own human truth because they feel that they can only learn through expierence, or at the minimum, something that feels more real. Darwinism did this for a lot of people. It is fact that there are a lot of stretches of truth in the bible, and for people who take it literally, it leaves much to be needed. darwinism filled a lot of those holes.
It makes more sense that things just didn't happen over night, or in the bibles case in 6 days. 6 days to billions of years, which one is more logical?
So on one front, you have science, the other religion. I realize that is incredibly simplified, and could be called wrong because of that, but it's just a short thought that I felt that could be shared.
I doubt anyone in this thread is on the extreme of either of these cases, but both sides do have baring on how we argue our subjects.
So lets try to get this thread back on track a little alright?
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 05, 2003, 11:49:49 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on August 05, 2003, 11:53:19 AM
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 05, 2003, 04:59:44 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 05, 2003, 05:05:00 PM
Post by: vudu on August 14, 2003, 09:50:41 AM
(also, sorry if this has been posted before. i read the first 50 or so posts, but after that my interest waned.)
there is a petition at www.jedimaster.net to get the star wars kid in episode iii.
Post by: vudu on August 14, 2003, 09:52:18 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 14, 2003, 01:49:05 PM
I swear, all of you probably contradicted yourselves at least twelve times.
Hitman in particular is very poor at debating. Whoo. I'm going back to read the first three or four pages.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on August 14, 2003, 02:06:34 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 14, 2003, 03:32:11 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 14, 2003, 03:35:16 PM
Post by: The Omen on August 14, 2003, 03:45:37 PM
Off the beaten path...and back upon it.
THIS...is why school shootings happen. No respect for life. When one becomes an outsider, they feel slighted by (insert clique here) , and therefore feel they must take revenge. The best way? Kill people and become more famous,notorious, and talked about than any of the people who heckled them. They don't want to live anyway, so no big deal. What a concept. And why is it so easy to kill now? The dilution of respect for others, and for ones self. How did we get this low? Well, there isn't enough space to really get into it...but i think we could all figure it out.
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 14, 2003, 03:53:31 PM
Well, technically we're not debating anymore, but still. . .
Post by: ThePerm on August 14, 2003, 09:43:39 PM
Post by: PIAC on August 14, 2003, 10:37:50 PM
what makes my unique blend of stupidness and anger flavoured flaming so funny eh? and why do i seem to get into them, thats like 3 recently, hitman, strife cloud pwns u (thread has been deleted ) and peewee (thread is locked, but still there) ohwell
OI YOU SMELL!
