Post by: Grey Ninja on July 23, 2003, 06:30:49 AM
I was just on another forum, where someone was complaining about the lack of really long RPGs these days, and missed the old days in the FF7 - 9 era when graphics weren't as important as gameplay. I read that sentence about 5 times to make sure it meant what I thought it meant. I started scrolling down, and the first responding post said basically the same thing, as the first guy had read the sentence 3 times...
But I am actually kind of affected by that statement, as insane as it might be. I am reminded of music.
My parents are almost 40 years older than me. They are from a forgotten generation, and the times often seem strange to them. My Dad is hopeless, and he was left behind before he was born. My Mom however, is another story. All of her kids (including me), suspect that she was a hippy in the 60s. She denies it completely, but we have pictures of her back in the day, and some of the things she says are sort of suspect...
But my Mom talks about the old days of Rock and Roll, when CCR was the greatest thing ever, and she doesn't listen to much modern music. She likes a couple of modern Metallica and ACDC songs, but she's still happiest with CCR when Rock and Roll was new.
I am finding that I am talking the same as her... When I talk about when gaming meant something, I talk about the SNES, which I think was the golden era of gaming. But when the young pups start talking about the PSX like it was "back in the day"... I feel incredibly old. I am STILL complaining about FF7 - 9, and let's not even start on 10 and 11. I was there to play Final Fantasy 1 back in 4th grade. I was there to play Final Fantasy 3 (US) when it first came out in Canada, and I fantasized about Chrono Trigger for years before I got it for my birthday, about a month after its release. These memories are from back in the day, when games were good. When someone talks about the piles of trash that are FF8 and FF9 like they were the good oldies... I feel about ready to throw up. I feel like my Mom must feel when someone talks about the good old days of Nirvana and Megadeth...
I know that a lot of the people around here are older than me, or around my age, so I figured I could come here for someone to put this in perspective for me. The thought of growing old terrifies me. It's strange. I don't fear or care about death. I could die today without regret. But I fear growing old more than anything. I guess that speaks a lot about my future.
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on July 23, 2003, 08:00:12 AM
Also, there's this guy named Akudaikan in Japan, who is about 37 years old. He is the only person in the world that has AAA'd MaxX Unlimited on Double (an insane DDR song) and is also the only person (last I checked) that has finished Legend Road on Double. Maybe that's kind of irrelevant, but you're only as old as you feel, I guess. I remember when me and my peers were like, ten years old or less, and we were expected to try and beat games like goddamn Ninja Gaiden. Kids these days, they got no skillz. We show 'em wassup, werd. Aight.
Post by: Round Eye on July 23, 2003, 08:03:12 AM
I think a lot of us dinos have to stop talking about the era that we grew up in as the golden age of gaming. When obviously the golden age of gaming is upon us right now. When else in history has video games threatened movies as the etertainment king. And now a days it is possible to have great graphics and great game play all in one. Where as back then developers had to do with what they had. I like to think of it this way, if I was to pick the worst GC game and time warp back to when I was a kid we would have gone crazy over it. We would still be talking about it in this forum, "remeber Smashing Drive that game was soo groovy!" See what I mean?
All the video game dinosuars out there have to stop dreaming of the good ol' days and just enjoy what we have now. While your thumb is still arthritis free. We got to live in the now man.
And if you start to feel old, just drink Pepsi
Post by: Ian Sane on July 23, 2003, 08:25:38 AM
Actually I think we would be saying "remember Smashing Drive? That game totally doesn't hold up today!"
With games you have to remember that the Playstation introduced a big chunk of today's audience to games so naturally there's going to be somewhat of a "generation gap" between those that started gaming in 1997 (in which case to them FF7 is an old game) to those of us who played games before. I guess it's kind of like back in the 80s when you had the kids that were first introduced to games with the NES and those that played Pong before Nintendo even released Donkey Kong. A major change in the industry will always cause a generation gap and make some people feel old. Games age a lot quicker than people.
Besides a lot of young people have REALLY short memories. How many times have you heard a teenager describe a song from six months ago as OLD.
Oh and CCR where not around when rock was new. Bill Haley, now THAT'S when rock was new.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 23, 2003, 09:23:42 AM
Anyway your mom has good taste in music
CCR is awsome and I love that song from Forest Gump. Games will never be as good as old school games since the beginning. Wind Waker is awsome, but cmon the original Zelda and Link 2 were masterpieces.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 23, 2003, 10:50:08 AM
But thanks everyone for putting it in perspective for me.
PS: I finished Ninja Gaiden back when I was a young pup.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 23, 2003, 12:32:12 PM
As far as music, I graduated high school in '88 and it horrifies me that the music I listened to from that time is considered "oldies"
That some of the stuff I remember is already 20 years old. For those of you that are teenagers, you will be surprised to find that in your twenties they will start referring to music you grew up with as oldies and you will feel as Grey Ninja does. Post by: HiTmaN on July 23, 2003, 12:37:25 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 23, 2003, 12:44:54 PM
Don't worry about what some knucklehead says on the internet (although I haven't exactly been the perfect picture of it myself). It's a proven fact that the only reason other people exist on the internet is to piss you off. And if you hear some kid saying something like that on the street, deck him- you're still young, you've got spunk!
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 23, 2003, 01:01:23 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 23, 2003, 01:38:09 PM
Sorry if I made you feel old.
I feel that the golden age of gaming could be upon us, but we just wouldn't know it. During the SNES age, did you ever think about "I bet people will refer to this as the golden age of gaming"?
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 23, 2003, 03:46:34 PM
I know what you mean, though- the title of "golden age" is generally attribute posthumously. We could be in one right now and not know it.
Post by: aoi tsuki on July 23, 2003, 05:28:56 PM
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As far as music, I graduated high school in '88 and it horrifies me that the music I listened to from that time is considered "oldies"
i guess it's because i haven't listened to the radio in years (outside of NPR), but i can't recall 80s music being referred to as "oldies". When i think of oldies, i think of 60s and 70s. music. Granted, i was a kid in the 80s, but it still feels recent, especially with a renewed interest in the 80s in the past few years.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 23, 2003, 06:28:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: aoi tsuki
i guess it's because i haven't listened to the radio in years (outside of NPR), but i can't recall 80s music being referred to as "oldies". When i think of oldies, i think of 60s and 70s. music. Granted, i was a kid in the 80s, but it still feels recent, especially with a renewed interest in the 80s in the past few years.
I always saw oldies as the '60's and 70's but on the radio they say oldies now when they play 80's stuff. Also, I was recently at Tower Records and they had a cd titled "Totally Oldies". By the title you can guess what it was.
Post by: Mario on July 23, 2003, 06:41:21 PM
Gamecube is the best console ever! *hugs it ever so tightly*
Post by: aoi tsuki on July 23, 2003, 07:26:09 PM
Quote
I always saw oldies as the '60's and 70's but on the radio they say oldies now when they play 80's stuff. Also, I was recently at Tower Records and they had a cd titled "Totally Oldies". By the title you can guess what it was.
Funny, when i think of "totally" anything, i think of the 80s. ^_^
Post by: HiTmaN on July 23, 2003, 07:45:01 PM
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 23, 2003, 08:19:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: aoi tsuki
Funny, when i think of "totally" anything, i think of the 80s. ^_^
That's what I was trying to say. The disc was called Totally Oldies and it was a disc of 80's music.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on July 23, 2003, 08:42:34 PM
The year NEs was released in America.
So there must be some spiritual connection between my birth and the rise of a gaming company.....right? Haha.
My friends and I went to see Charlie's Angels 2 three weeks ago. And the movie being what it was, the cinema was filled to the brim with pre-teens in 20-something clothing with independant attitudes. You know, boys in button shirts and expensive boots and pants, and hair with excessive use of gel, chasing girls with designer fur coats, low cut jeans and designer handbags.
We were wearing Billabong shirts and 3/4 pants and cargos, so go figure.
I sat there thinking, goddamn! I acted like that? Of course i didn't have the clothes, so I guess that's why i wasn't popular......
It's just the way society is everyone.
I like the way it is with the guys and gals my age, but I can't stand the way kids act nowadays socially.
I blew my head off when i found out my 7-year old cousin went out on a date to see Sinbad with some guy she'd been 'going out' with since Kindergarten!
How's that for feeling old!
And I'm only 17 years 360 days old!
The Golden Age of gaming is different for everyone. Mine is when I was first entrance by the moving pictures on screen. Dig Dug and Space INvaders were my first games. My first 3D game, however, was this game, similar to Pac Man, called 'Demon'. I forgot what the aim was, but the enemies were demons, and you had to traverse a maze, looking for the exit. It wasn't top down.....you were IN the maze, so I was stuck for HOURS!
The only one time that is the same for everyone is the 'gaming-Rennaissance', when Nintendo saved the industry from collapse.
Post by: ThePerm on July 23, 2003, 10:18:44 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on July 23, 2003, 11:28:16 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on July 24, 2003, 12:49:05 AM
I'm a gamer since the later Atari 2600 days myself.
One thing that did make me feel old recently was a conversation something someone was saying about Sony "stealing" their controller design from the SNES. Someone else said "How can it be stealing, if they just used the obvious, logical, layout?" (or something to that effect)
Then I started remembering about how the Atari used to have a joystick (a term invented by the pioneering efforts of immature airplane test pilots, FYI) that pressed down bent pieces of metal that were taped to a circuit board, to make connections (I took many of them apart, trying to "fix" them, after me and my brothers wore them out). And the stick was supposed to be operated with your right hand, with your left being used for buttons.
And then Nintendo came out with the NES (Famicom) and the almost-complete modern design for controllers. Crosskey on the left. Start and select buttons made of those rubber things used in TV remote controls in the middle. Similar buttons with hard plastic covers for the more used "A and B" buttons on the right.
Then Sega made their own crosskey, and put it back on the right side of the pad, for their "Master System". And put the "pause" button on the main unit, beside the reset button, like the switches of the old 2600.
NEC came out with their own controller for the TurboGrafx (PC Engine), and mostly copied the NES controller.
Then Sega tried again with the Genesis, but they still made their own version of the crosskey (since Nintendo had completely invented it) which, like the TG-16 and Master System, didn't seem to work as nicely as Nintendo's, but at least were honest. And they also went with a more "arcade style" 3-button layout. Which later changed to a six-button layout.
Then Nintendo came out with the SNES, invented the L and R buttons, and expanded their two-button system to a more comfortable four-button system.
Then Sony made the PSX. They took the SNES design, and made some ergonomic changes (which had been happening since the Genesis). They took the perfect mechanics of Nintendo's crosskey, and made it visually different with a tiny (and functionally useless) brace in the middle, so it looked like four buttons. And they doubled the L and R buttons! And renamed the others (with lousy names, that they seem to be really pround of).
Then Nintendo came out with the N64, with analog, and their "three handed" design (so you could use the analog to replace either hand). Sony added analog to their controller, but couldn't really do the "three handed" thing. So they just gave people double the analog sticks!
Then Nintendo came out with the Rumble Pak, so Sony added rumble to their controller (and made the non-rumbling analog ones pretty rare). And gave people double the rumble motors! One big, and one small, which gave it more depth, and made most people say that the Dual Shock was superior.
Sega evolved their six-button Genesis pad into the Saturn controller, and after the analog revolution they made a funky disc-shaped controller that they gave away bundled with Nights. Which evolved into the Dreamcast controller. Which was spray painted black, had half a tennis ball superglued to it, and became the XBox controller. Which was later replaced by a much better Japanese one.
That turned into a bit of a rant, didn't it? I think that was part of it. I've got all this rant-worthy info in my head, and some little twerp tihnks the world was born looking like it is now! That's what makes me old! I've gotten surly! Sometimes.
Another thing that made me feel old somewhat recently, was when I was first playing Pokemon on my old "original" GameBoy (I was trying to avoid getting the GameBoy Color, since I knew the "Atlantis" would be around eventually). I realized that the majority of the kids that were playing the same game were younger than the system I was currently playing it on. Nevermind the fact that they're younger than me. They're younger than my GameBoy!
Of course, for the most part, the fact that I'm still into videogames and cartoons makes me feel like I'm still a kid. Which really is kind of amazing, when you stop and think about it.
Post by: Mario on July 24, 2003, 01:46:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ocarina Blue
About the music comment: I am not old, but I have no respect for the music that can be heard on the pop charts today. Pop, rap and (partly) rock have been so commercialised that there is no room for new good artists to move in. It sad to see a group of people who always listen to the same music, like a hive mind, its even sadder that their tastes are dictated by huge advertising campains and record companies, not themselves.
Examples?
btw, good post Ruby Onix
Post by: manunited4eva22 on July 24, 2003, 07:27:12 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 24, 2003, 11:11:48 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 24, 2003, 11:37:22 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 24, 2003, 11:53:59 AM
Anyways, thanks for all the replies here. I am a little too drunk to comment on them right now, but I will do so at a later point.
Post by: ThePerm on July 24, 2003, 11:54:18 AM
ahahah thats classic....
and sell outs. A company who snubbed 98% of their fans...hmm are we talking about a certain british company?
Post by: The Omen on July 24, 2003, 12:11:49 PM
And Mario, SNES ...boring? It still has the best catalogue of games...ever.
Post by: ThePerm on July 24, 2003, 12:14:24 PM
Post by: The Omen on July 24, 2003, 01:54:10 PM
The RPG comments are funny, because i dont think any get better than the first 3 Final Fantasy games, the Mana series, Dragon Warrior series, Chrono Trigger and the Ultima series. But then that shows my age, right?
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 24, 2003, 02:18:13 PM
I don't have to stand up for bands that much- my favorite band ever is an extremely obscure weird/ska/punk band by the name of Pain (you've probably seen their Jabberjaw music video on Cartoon Network), my second favorite band is At the Drive-In, and I haven't found too many people that will actually badmouth them, and then there's bands like Queen or the Beatles who people have just gotten in the habit of NOT saying bad things about.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 24, 2003, 03:33:45 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on July 24, 2003, 07:41:58 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on July 24, 2003, 07:59:53 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 24, 2003, 09:30:29 PM
Post by: Mario on July 24, 2003, 10:03:18 PM
Quote
And Mario, SNES ...boring? It still has the best catalogue of games...ever.
... in your opinion.
Ocarina Blue: Ok fair enough, but just because an artist or band is popular, doesnt mean they aren't talented.
Post by: HiTmaN on July 24, 2003, 10:09:58 PM
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I'd say selling out is when you snub your own fanbase in favour of the mainstream market. Therefore a company that achieves mainstream success but is still true to their loyal fanbase is not a sell out. Nintendo for example is successful but is not a sell out. If they started targeting only the mainstream and stopped releasing the games us fans love in favour of generic sports games and gorefests then they would be a sell out.
I'll agree with you but to a point. What if your in the position that not being in favor of the mainstream market is casuing bad sales and your buisness to crumble. Do you go make the fans you have happy? Or make the general public happy and make more money. I mean yeah I like when bands/companies are small and at their peak and are kick ass, but that can only go on for so long. Eventually we all get money hungry.
Post by: PIAC on July 24, 2003, 11:29:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
KnowsNothing- if you like raggae, i think you'd like The Specials. Technically they're ska, but ska kind of spawned from raggae way back in the day and The Special's music certainly shows a lot of influence from it. My favorite songs from them are Message to You, Rudy and Shanty Town 007.
sorry to be a bitch, but reggae came from ska ;P
i have a few specials songs have a looky at some more specials songs, also check out Desmond Dekker, The Beat (aka The English Beat) and Madness
ska owns
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 25, 2003, 05:21:10 AM
Oh, and PIAC, put the actual url up. Geocities doesn't allow direct linking.
Post by: Ian Sane on July 25, 2003, 07:31:15 AM
Really? When did ska "debut"? Reggae's been around for a long time.
"What if your in the position that not being in favor of the mainstream market is casuing bad sales and your buisness to crumble. Do you go make the fans you have happy? Or make the general public happy and make more money. I mean yeah I like when bands/companies are small and at their peak and are kick ass, but that can only go on for so long. Eventually we all get money hungry."
It is possible to remain true to your fans and target the mainstream at the same time. It's not like bands suddenly suck because they're popular. I find that most bands that "make it" tend to evolve their sound as they go on. It's sort of a natural progression, a desire to improve. If a band becomes popular gradually because of it then they're not really sell outs. A sell out is a band that complete caters to the market, the sort of band that changes their sound almost overnight just to accomodate the mainstream market.
Post by: Round Eye on July 25, 2003, 08:45:34 AM
The main issue I have with pop music is that it is extremely youth driven. That is why boy bands enjoy the success that they do, and crap like American Idol is so popular. I think the sooner that the music industry chokes on its own sh!te and dies the better it will be for us all. Britney and Timberlake may be out of a job but they could always work at Mcdonalds where they belong. All you youngins who like that kind of tripe please keep downloading the songs from Kazaa, free is all that they are worth, and you are helping end the music industy autocracy.
Thank you
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 25, 2003, 12:40:07 PM
Post by: HiTmaN on July 25, 2003, 12:58:27 PM
Yeah I know what your saying and I agree with you. But there are alot of people who enjoy underground rock and once one of their videos hit MTV they instantly think they sold out.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 25, 2003, 01:10:53 PM
Post by: PIAC on July 25, 2003, 07:35:41 PM
www.geocities.com/clan_fanforced/piacsplaylist.html
and yeah, the specials are an awsome band
get some songs by madness mouse_clicker, take the specials and 2 shakes of nuttyness and there you go, madness
Post by: HiTmaN on July 25, 2003, 07:45:25 PM
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 25, 2003, 08:15:57 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 25, 2003, 08:35:14 PM
I'll definitely check out Madness, PIAC- it's obvious you're a huge ska fan, one whose opinion I won't take lightly.
