Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Khushrenada on February 04, 2014, 08:26:46 PM
Title: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Khushrenada on February 04, 2014, 08:26:46 PM
So, as I was typing a reply in the 3DS sequel thread, I came up with an off-the-cuff joke about a potential Sega title that I'm not surprised hasn't been thought of yet.
If Nintendo were to buy Sega, first project started should be Sega All-Stars Wrestling (or some other better title.) Basically, Smash Bros but for all Sega characters. I'd trust Nintendo to get the project right. Not only would it be an awesome Sega nostalgia blast like Smash Bros. first proved to be but it would also promote all of Sega's characters and franchises to a gamer consciousness level they haven't been at in some time. Look at how SSB helped promote awareness of Fire Emblem, Ice Climbers, and Earthbound. The same effect could and should happen here also if done right. It could make gamers more curious about certain characters and franchises. Then if Nintendo were to release the back catalogue of these franchises on VC, it could really help create a demand for many Sega franchises moving forward and help turn that investment around fast.
Heck, Sega should just do it on their own.
What do you think? Am I crazy? Have I been bitten by the impossible wish fulfillment bug? Or are you on board this crazy train with me?
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: UncleBob on February 04, 2014, 08:43:14 PM
If Nintendo and SEGA merge, the first title should be a real Mario & Sonic platformer.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 04, 2014, 08:47:26 PM
SMASH BROS vs ALL STARS
FIGHT!
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: nickmitch on February 04, 2014, 09:05:49 PM
I'm not sure if another mascot fighter could really compete with Smash Bros around. Plus, aren't a lot of those characters in the Sonic racing game already?
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 04, 2014, 10:33:29 PM
Excite Rally?
Star-Burner/After-Fox?
XenoSkies of Arcadia?
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Adrock on February 04, 2014, 11:08:19 PM
I'm not sure if another mascot fighter could really compete with Smash Bros around.
If Nintendo and Sega merged, I'd imagine a new mascot fighter would either play like but replace Super Smash Bros. or just be Super Smash Bros. including Sega characters.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: rlse9 on February 04, 2014, 11:48:47 PM
Kinda surprised Sega hasn't tried this already. Their racing games have been generally well received and must be selling fairly well, I'd imagine that a Sega made Smash Bros type game would have sold well, especially if it had been released before the next Smash Bros is released.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Shaymin on February 05, 2014, 06:16:28 AM
Kinda surprised Sega hasn't tried this already. Their racing games have been generally well received and must be selling fairly well, I'd imagine that a Sega made Smash Bros type game would have sold well, especially if it had been released before the next Smash Bros is released.
Yeah, Sega is one of a few companies that could pull off a game like this (Sony should have done more with their own characters in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale). They've dipped their feet in a couple times with Fighters Megamix and Sonic the Fighters. Still, Sega kind of missed the boat by at least 10 years since many of their franchises are dormant now. Not that it's impossible, like Sonic and All Stars Racing, they could start with Sonic and build from there. I think a larger issue would be not having someone as passionate as Masahiro Sakurai directing the game, at least for the first game to set the tone. Much of what makes Super Smash Bros. so compelling is his outside-the-box thinking and commitment to staying true to the characters. Although we only have limited footage, Sakurai seems to have done a better job building Mega Man into a fighting game than Capcom did in their Marvel vs. Capcom series. When I look at other mascot fighting games, I don't feel like the developers cared as much about those little nuances.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 05, 2014, 12:24:31 PM
The hell with a Sega fighting game just make a Nintendo vs. Sega game using SSB gameplay! Don't pussyfoot around, just give us what we really want.
Though I would have some concern that Nintendo wouldn't quite have enough understanding of Sega's properties to do it right... but then I probably trust Sega less. It would need the kind of hardcore fan detail that SSB has and not just put Sonic and the Super Monkey Ball cast in willy-nilly like you were Reggie picking off characters from the boxes with "Sega" on them at Best Buy. You need the Segagaga guys involved as consultants for the Sega IP.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on February 05, 2014, 12:32:01 PM
Nintendo Vs. Sega could very well be the last game I purchase. Years or schoolyard and break room arguments settled. Sega certainly has enough quality IP's to promote a full roster. Even if it's a DLC for SSB4, I could ride off into the digital sunset a completely happy gamer.
Vectorman Vs. Samus
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Adrock on February 05, 2014, 12:32:47 PM
Not that I disagree, but are you really expecting these two not to pussyfoot around? Isn't that what they've been doing since Sega went third party? "A Mario and Sonic platformer, you say? **** it, put them in the Olympic Games."
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 05, 2014, 02:47:06 PM
The thing is Nintendo doesn't really need to make a Nintendo vs Sega Smash Bros when most of the series in Smash Bros are already way more popular then Sega's franchises. You'd have to make the rosters equal for both sides but outside of Sonic, there isn't much for Sega franchises that come close to the popularity of the characters already in Smash Bros. Say the roster is 50 characters with each side getting 25. Name 25 Sega characters that come close to popularity the 25 Nintendo characters would. Even characters from franchises that aren't popular anymore like Star Fox and F-Zero were still much bigger in their prime then many of the characters Sega would have added. Yeah there's older obscure characters like Ice Climers but even that game was more popular then many of the older obscure games Sega made as well. Nintendo is better off just continuing to add more characters from Nintendo series since their own series continue to be more popular and well known.
It's the same reason they haven't allowed a Mario & Sonic platformer since Mario on his own is still the more popular series. Adding Sonic doesn't do much since most Mario platformers can easy sell around 10 million on their own. Hell, considering how bad some Sonic platformers have been, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo worries adding Sonic might actually hurt the sales since Sonic's name isn't exactly a symbol of quality platforming anymore. Even the Sonic games that are considered good like Colors and Generation still pale in comparison to the Galaxy and 3D World games in quality, making the appearence of Sonic not exactly a huge selling point anymore when Mario is still a symbol of higher quality gaming on his own.
The best anyone can hope for if Nintendo was to merge with Sega is Sonic would get more characters added to Smash Bros with a few other fan favorite Sega characters added as well, but nothing close to making a full blown Nintendo vs Sega since the reality is many of Nintendo's own franchises are still on a whole other level then Sega's.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 05, 2014, 05:42:08 PM
Luigi Dude is correct. Add to that most of the franchises that would work as dormant, and the franchises that are active, are not suited for a Smash game.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 05, 2014, 05:50:45 PM
It is rather sad that the Nintendo/Sega crossover game that fans actually want does not yet exist because financially it doesn't have to. "We could make that Mario/Sonic dream game but, eh, you guys will buy Mario anyway so why bother?" It's the same logic that has kept a proper Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest game from coming out despite the two companies having been merged for ten years.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 06, 2014, 12:20:56 AM
Actually, I think it doesn't exist because it wouldn't work...and wouldn't be fun.
Think about it...Sonic and Mario Platform game.
First, Mario games are not built around speed, but exploring and jumping more. The 2D games could be argued for speed, but the 3D games are even more focused on vertical and jump exploring. Sonic, is focused on speed, and although exploration is still apart of the game...it really hinders the speed aspect...it is either one or the other.
Plus, Sega's designs on Sonic have always been questionable. Levels often have gotcha hidden traps that you can't do anything about. I think Nintendo would look at the overall design of Sonic and think it is rather poor.
Now, take a Sega franchise to mix into Smash? What characters really fit? Maybe one from Virtual Fighter, Maybe 3-4 from Sonic, Jet Set Radio...OK cool, then what? Yeah...nothing really stands out...Wonder boy? Alex Kid? Shinobi...Ok Shinobi would be cool, add him in.
Some dream games sound great on paper, but would never work. The only way I would do Sonic and Mario together is maybe a Mario RPG game...and that is it.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Adrock on February 06, 2014, 02:22:59 AM
The problem with your reasoning is you're just trying to put Mario in a Sonic game or Sonic in a Mario game. That's like trying to ram a square peg into a round hole. Introducing a new element requires changes. Design the game around BOTH Mario and Sonic, make adjustments. That's what game designers are paid to do for a living. These are the same companies that made it possible for Sonic to lose a foot race against Mario (which, let's be honest, shouldn't happen like ever) so I doubt they feel bound to any set of specific rules.
Quote
Now, take a Sega franchise to mix into Smash? What characters really fit? Maybe one from Virtual Fighter, Maybe 3-4 from Sonic, Jet Set Radio...OK cool, then what? Yeah...nothing really stands out...Wonder boy? Alex Kid? Shinobi...Ok Shinobi would be cool, add him in.
Oh, come on now. You're not even trying. If Captain Falcon could be made into a believable fighting game character despite the fact that he came from a racing game where no gameplay ever showed him outside of Blue Falcon, this can't be that hard with Sega's long history. There's Nights, Vyse (though I'd prefer Aika) from Skies of Arcadia, Alis Lansdale from Phantasy Star, Synbios from Shining Force III which was developed by Camelot Software Planning (Golden Sun), Vectorman, Toejam and Earl, Ryo Hazuki from Shenmue, Agent G from House of the Dead, Tyris Flare from Golden Axe, Ulala from Space Channel 5, Orta from Panzer Dragoon Orta and many more though I don't feel like going through every game of each franchise. Have you seen the cover of Gunvalkyrie? Kelley O'Lenmey could easily fit right in even if her game was pretty mediocre.
Sure, many of the characters are mostly irrelevant in 2014 (though that wouldn't have been entirely true a decade ago or when a crossover should have happened). No other gaming company can match the popularity of Nintendo's characters. Is that reason enough to pass on a whole project? I don't think Nintendo and Sega would be making a crossover game based solely on the popularity of the individual characters. Rather, it would be on the recognition of the each company collectively. Not everyone knows the depth of Sega's characters, but they probably heard of Sega, they know the logo and possibly even the intro/scream (most definitely among gaming circles). The box could literally be "Nintendo vs. Sega" using each company's logo.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: alegoicoe on February 06, 2014, 03:58:54 AM
Bring back Skies of Arcadia ;D
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: ThePerm on February 06, 2014, 04:06:14 AM
Sega has a profile of games that if exclusive for Nintendo really would give it a boost
mario /sonic smash bros /virtua fighter zelda / shenmue kirby / Nights Metroid / Vectorman f-zero, mario kart / daytona, Sega GT
Shinobi Virtua Cop House of the Dead Altered Beasts Panzer Dragoon Shining Force Yakuza Phantasy Star Toejam and Earl
Sega's franchises cover a lot of where Nintendo would be barren. If Nintendo made its own games, had Sega make thier own games, and licensed out their franchises to capable studios then you would have a storm of exclusivity.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: nickmitch on February 06, 2014, 08:30:59 PM
I'm not sure if another mascot fighter could really compete with Smash Bros around.
If Nintendo and Sega merged, I'd imagine a new mascot fighter would either play like but replace Super Smash Bros. or just be Super Smash Bros. including Sega characters.
Yeah, the only thing that makes sense is to add more Sega characters to Smash.
I think if there were to be a "crossover" title, an RPG or something.
Anyway, Perm is right. Sega could cover a lot of areas that Nintendo lacks in and with the right licensing deals, Nintendo wouldn't have a 3rd party problem anymore.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 06, 2014, 09:07:21 PM
No, they'd still have a 3rd party problem, they just wouldn't have a genre gap the size of the pacific ocean anymore.
Sega would cover a lot of things Nintendo doesn't currently do, but we still need all the other titles from all the other 3rd party companies too. Atleast with the genres covered, an audience is slowly being built for those types of games.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: nickmitch on February 06, 2014, 09:46:55 PM
Well, Nintendo's 3rd party problem results in two issues: that their platforms miss out on certain games and genres and that their release schedule has holes.
It fixes the second issue right out, and helps the first one. With enough quality exclusives and a fuller release schedule, sales should boost enough to fix the other half of the support problem.
Maybe.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Adrock on February 07, 2014, 08:02:29 AM
Not that it would be ideal, but picking up a company like Sega that hits a lot of different notes Nintendo doesn't and wouldn't makes it easier to justify a console without heavy third party support. The thing is that such a move furthers the gap between Nintendo and third parties, compounding the problems while greatly strengthening their platform.
Nintendo doesn't care for multiplatform games and they certainly don't care about "winning" the so-called console wars. Nintendo cares about being Nintendo, controlling their hardware with what they see as the best software. If that's what Nintendo wants to do, they're obviously going to need more exclusive content in order to be successful. Buying Sega as well as a few other smaller Japanese companies would help them accomplish that though Nintendo would still need to look West to really make it work. Maybe ZeniMax media? Not that any of this would happen, just saying this is what Nintendo would have to do (without spending the years setting up their own Western studios and launching those games). And I kind of wish that would happen. Not because I particularly like Doom, Elder Scrolls, or Fallout, but the trolliness of such an acquisition would be hilarious to me. There would be so many delicious fanboy tears who would still ultimately buy Nintendo hardware anyway.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: rlse9 on February 07, 2014, 02:18:08 PM
Not that it would be ideal, but picking up a company like Sega that hits a lot of different notes Nintendo doesn't and wouldn't makes it easier to justify a console without heavy third party support. The thing is that such a move furthers the gap between Nintendo and third parties, compounding the problems while greatly strengthening their platform.
Is there a reason Nintendo can't improve their third party relations AND increase their first party output with a major acquisition like Sega? I know the real reason, because Nintendo are idiots, but let's assume they're making a legitimate effort here. Nintendo wants to sell first party games so even if they had better third party support they would want to have a good amount of first party games and right now they are damn slow at making them. No matter what they need to increase their output and HD development has slowed them down. Now third party support is still important because that will encourage system sales and thus increase the sales potential of every first party title. The Wii was a fluke. Every other post-SNES Nintendo console has been held back by its weak third party support. Make your console more attractive with a wider variety of games and it will sell better and then your own games will sell better and you'll get a cut of every third party game as well.
Unless you're suggesting that third parties will be turned off by Nintendo increasing their first party output. They won't be. It's clear that Nintendo's unaccommodating nature in regards to hardware design, dev kits, documentation, licence fees, etc is the cause of their third party problems. There is no reason they can't or shouldn't fix that.
Though I can't help but think of what a Nintendo/Sega merger would be like with the OLD Sega. Current Sega sucks.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 07, 2014, 05:05:46 PM
I think the old excuse was that 3rd parties didn't want to compete with Nintendo on their own platform, so if Nintendo bought Sega, and started releasing quality products in all the genres that that the 2 frequent, then that would leave no room for the decent to mediocre efforts of the majority of 3rd parties, therefore they will just go elsewhere.
Then I believe the excuse was that Yamauchi soured relations with most 3rd parties decades ago and they still, to this day hold a grudge against Nintendo, even after leadership has changed (numerous times) on either side. They don't know what they want, but if Nintendo is offering it, then it must be wrong.
Now it's Nintendo doesn't communicate. And maybe that was the real issue the entire time. But I personally believe that if they started releasing games in all those genres (which an acquisition of Sega could help with - IP and man power) then you start to build familiarity with those types of games among the Nintendo loyalist, which in turn would lead to them branching out to explore more options in those genres provided by 3rd parties. and on the flip side, all those other gamers that don't buy into Nintendo because it doesn't provide them something they can't get elsewhere, will now have a reason to buy Nintendo, as Nintendo will have exclusives in those genres too.
I think Nintendo needs to lay a solid foundation if they are expecting 3rd parties to come build a home.
This is why platform games usually sell best on Nintendo systems. and puzzlers, kart style racers, 4 player fighting and quirky niche style games too.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Adrock on February 07, 2014, 06:19:26 PM
Is there a reason Nintendo can't improve their third party relations AND increase their first party output with a major acquisition like Sega?
Well, no, but that's not what I'm saying. Please re-read the part I quoted. I said, "Not that it would be ideal..." If Nintendo increases their first party output either internally or by acquisition, they're even less likely to engage third parties. There's a marked difference between what I think Nintendo would do and what I think they should do. Of course, I'd want them to engage third parties and continue improving their first party stable. Who wouldn't want that?
Quote
Though I can't help but think of what a Nintendo/Sega merger would be like with the OLD Sega. Current Sega sucks.
Current Sega lacks direction, but they still have all of those old IPs. That's the real value of picking up Sega.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 07, 2014, 07:05:55 PM
Is there a reason Nintendo can't improve their third party relations AND increase their first party output with a major acquisition like Sega?
Well, no, but that's not what I'm saying. Please re-read the part I quoted. I said, "Not that it would be ideal..." If Nintendo increases their first party output either internally or by acquisition, they're even less likely to engage third parties. There's a marked difference between what I think Nintendo would do and what I think they should do. Of course, I'd want them to engage third parties and continue improving their first party stable. Who wouldn't want that?
I think I was writing my post more in a frustrated "why does it have to be this way?" frame of mind. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive and it's so damn annoying that, yes, in Nintendo's mind one would be good enough to cancel the other.
In the end it's a big reason I have been very reluctant to buy a Wii U. Nintendo doesn't want to improve if they can get away without doing so. The Wii's success drove me nuts because it seemed like Nintendo was putting in a shitty effort and being effectively rewarded for doing so and that would just encourage them. Buying a Wii U is me saying to Nintendo "all this bullshit is okay" and it isn't okay. I could see Nintendo making an effort to improve and then falling back into old habits after the initial positive feedback from consumers. We need a change in their attitude where their reaction to positive feedback would be "Alright our hard work and self-improvement is getting people back. Let's keep at it."
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: ThePerm on February 07, 2014, 08:54:32 PM
Actually, if Nintendo improved their first party support, they would really just be on even footing compared to xbox and sony. They had no games 2 generations ago. Now they are probably in a better position.
If Nintendo had Ubisoft, Namco, Tecmo, Konami, etc working on some games then we would have a really full portfolio.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: MagicCow64 on February 07, 2014, 11:04:09 PM
I feel like everyone here is ignoring the fact that Sega can't tie its own shoelaces anymore. Nintendo could acquire the company, but then it would be their problem to get competent development teams together to make Nintendo-quality product out of Sega's IPs. Even conservatively that would require a pretty huge expansion of development management, and most of the actual production would have to be done by outside teams (I'm assuming they'd want to rip up a lot of Sega's legacy personnel).
Personally, I never clicked with Sega's salad days stuff on the Genesis, but even if you hold those games in high regard, what have they produced post third-party that can withstand a lot of scrutiny? I contend that all 3D Sonic games are terrible, but even if you have a soft spot for those, what else have they pulled off? All Stars Racing Transformed seems to be the best received game they put out in a long time, but from what I understand that was farmed out.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 08, 2014, 12:41:37 AM
The first thing New Nintendo should do with a newly (and secretly) purchased Sega, is maybe not kill the 3D sonics, but instead make New Super Sonic - a 2D speedy side scroller, and once they got the basics down on that, release a 3DS version, and if that does well, release Super Sonic Unleashed - a 3D explorative game in the stylings of Super Mario Galaxies.
Now that we've taken care of the sonic platformers, they should make Super Sonic Speedway - a Sega themed kart racer
Then they create a puzzler called - Sonic D.D.S. - It's like Super Breakout where Sonic wears a white Dentist coat, and his goal is to bounce around inside the mouth and break up plaque before they form on the teeth.
Then we are gonna start a Sonic Sports line: Super Sonic Soccer Smash, Sonic Sliders (baseball), Super Sonic Slap Shot, Super Sonic Hoopz, etc etc.
and once those and all the supporting characters become familiar, they will introduce Super All-Star Sideshow Brawl
These releases are to be offset with the Nintendo equivalents, as Nintendo playing the role of Coke, would create their own Pepsi to compete with.
Once they've got all that down, then they can start working on Phase 2: NiGHTS, Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, Space Channel 5, Super Monkey Ball, Samba De Amigo, Ecco the Dolphin, Crazy Taxi & Toe Jam & Earl.
and Phase 2.5: House of the Dead, Shenmue, Phantasy Star, After Burner, Panzer Dragoon, Shinobi, Space Harrier, Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter, Yakuza & Vectorman.
After that, sequel the successful series, and add a few more revivals to the mix. Oh and dump all of the old SEGA roms onto the VC immediately.
(this post was motivated purely out of boredom - not a direct response to anyone in particular)
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Kytim89 on February 08, 2014, 01:35:57 AM
A Sonic game developed by EAD Tokyo with the quality of Super Mario 3D world and Land.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: Oblivion on February 08, 2014, 01:41:54 AM
no
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: UncleBob on February 08, 2014, 07:48:19 AM
Then they create a puzzler called - Sonic D.D.S. - It's like Super Breakout where Sonic wears a white Dentist coat, and his goal is to bounce around inside the mouth and break up cavities before they form on the teeth.
I know that Dr. Mario isn't the most medically accurate game, but this... Do you know how cavities work? This sounds like you're making the cavities bigger...
Quote
Oh and dump all of the old SEGA roms onto the VC immediately.
HAHAHAHA. This is joke, right?
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 08, 2014, 12:35:46 PM
I meant plaque, not cavities (going to edit).
the rest of this post is hidden
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: nickmitch on February 08, 2014, 01:07:37 PM
Why does every proper noun have to be a verb? Whatever happened to the phrase "pulling a ____"? Can't you just be "pulling a Kytim"?
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 08, 2014, 01:26:20 PM
It was part of someones tag, but I can't remember who. It might have been changed now, but it was there. I didn't make it up.
Title: Re: Here's a great way to make a Sega/Nintendo merger work.
Post by: UncleBob on February 08, 2014, 03:34:53 PM
That makes much more sense. The correction - not the part about not being serious. I'm going to take that post at face value and fax it to Reggie as my business plan.
