Stock buy-backs, temporary pay cuts, shareholder reach arounds, revised forecast reality checks cashed. Will we see a NEW NINTENDO tonite after the shareholder meeting?
Let's hope so.
Regarding the Buyback:
Quote from: Iwata
“That won’t merit shareholders, that’s why we decided on the buyback,” Iwata said yesterday. “But that’s not all the reason. We’ve been rewarding our shareholders mainly through high dividends, but we cannot generate as much profit as we used to make.”
Regarding the Salary Cut and the Wii U
Quote from: Iwata
“I’m concentrating my mind on how to rebuild Nintendo rather than how I would take responsibility when things don’t work out,” Iwata said.
“The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said. “We’ll discuss how we will handle smartphones. What’s best to do in a short term is different from what’s best for us in a medium term.”
I'm guessing NOA & NOE won't become more independenly run though... which would suck, because it needs to happen.
Quote from: article
The president has said he won’t step down after 12 years running the company, and has no plans to change managers in the near term.
lets's just hope that doesn't meant that, and that he will take a step back from the overseas markets and let those regions be their own antennas.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: alegoicoe on January 29, 2014, 05:18:38 PM
Thats part of being a company, learning how to manage loses while creating strategies to recuperate, I am sure Nintendo has it under control. As for the Wii U selling bad, everyone know that, but still at 5.86 million, is still plenty of time to release some good games and gain sales.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Adrock on January 29, 2014, 05:27:02 PM
Nintendo will be fine. I just hope they learn from this. I'm not going to list all the things that went wrong. We know them. Moving forward, do as Vanilla Ice said, "Alright, stop! Collaborate and listen!"
I'll see myself out.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 29, 2014, 05:50:46 PM
I made a little art in anticipation of "tomorrow's" investors meeting
(http://i.imgur.com/Sv8fBXI.png)
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 29, 2014, 06:16:59 PM
I want a new and improved Nintendo where they keep all the stuff they're good at (or USED to be good at) and address all the annoying stupid **** that's been part of their culture since 1996 (or maybe 1995 with the Virtual Boy). But I fear that instead I'll get the same old Nintendo only they'll compromise some of their good qualities or they'll be the same but they'll just fixate on something that doesn't matter and not recognize the real reasons for their problems.
I honestly think they need some new people from outside. Everyone working at Nintendo is entrenched in the company's idiotic ideas about third party support or adapting new technology. They need someone who can recognize their numerous mistakes. You think Nintendo has any idea of exactly what they're doing wrong in attracting third party support? Don't you think if they did they would still have the same problem a good 18 years after the N64 launched? They don't know and any new attempt to address it would just be a blind speculation. Only an outsider will be able to turn that around. The time for Nintendo to demonstrate that they knew how to fix their mistakes was on the Gamecube, not two generations later. If they could fix it themselves they would have done so over ten years ago.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Phil on January 29, 2014, 06:22:12 PM
I'd love to see Nintendo headquarters giving the Western branches some form of autonomy like before Mr. Iwata came on board as president.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on January 29, 2014, 09:20:59 PM
Thats part of being a company, learning how to manage loses while creating strategies to recuperate, I am sure Nintendo has it under control.
Good companies/management would have the understanding of the market and the foresight to release products that the consumers want. Then they could gain market share and have the upper hand on their competitors.
The business market constantly changes as consumers needs and lifestyles change. I have no confidence in Nintendo to "right" the ship. Take out Wii (anomaly) and every home console has sold less than the previous iteration as Nintendo loses ground each generation to their competitors. NES 62M > SNES 49M > N64 33M > Gamecube 22M > Wii U?
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on January 29, 2014, 09:38:35 PM
If only Wii Fit U had been released sooner...
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 29, 2014, 09:46:22 PM
Xmas 2010 and this would be a different conversation, because Nintendo would be preparing the successor already for Xmas 2014.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 29, 2014, 10:14:13 PM
On the possibility of tie-ups, Mr. Iwata says Nintendo can’t do everything on its own and will be “flexible” in considering its options. But he says there’s something that Nintendo will stick to: the creation of products that are unique and not comparable to anything else. “We’d like to work with other companies where necessary while maintaining our unique identity,” he says
I hope this means that Nintendo will let Google help them with the future OS and Online experience of the N7 maybe let Valve be of a little assistance in integrating a good game shop and online multiplayer experience Allow AMD/ATi to sell them on some higher grade parts instead of fully customizing older parts for size and power consumption control.
In the meantime I hope they redesign the Wii U hardware to look different so that a new marketing push won't be retreading old ground trying to fight prior conceptions using same old imagery. New Marketing, New Look. Call it Wii U 2.0, same hardware, different look, trick the general audience into thinking it's something new, when it's really the same thing they've been ignoring for over a year now.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Enner on January 29, 2014, 10:24:40 PM
The slides for Jaunary 30th, 2014's corporate management policy briefing are now in English! http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/index.html
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 29, 2014, 10:48:03 PM
Quick Start Menu incoming with Summer Update for Wii U http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/02.html
Quote
Also, one of the major benefits of the GamePad is that we can easily play video games without using the TV, and this has been well received. Unfortunately, however, after starting up Wii U, there is a wait of over 20 seconds before we can select a video game title, and hence it is not an ideal situation for users now.
To solve this problem, a quick start menu for the GamePad will become a reality after a future system update planned for early summer. This new function is currently under development, and although we cannot show a demo with a real machine, we have made a video to show you what the function can do, so please take a look.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Sarail on January 29, 2014, 10:58:45 PM
Based on the translated slides and interview, it looks like Nintendo are going to be jumping head first into using more of their unused IP now. This means great things. Such as...
StarTropics 3: The Return
DO IT, NINTENDO. YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO. OH GOD YES.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Adrock on January 30, 2014, 12:18:40 AM
I hope this means that Nintendo will let Google help them with the future OS and Online experience of the N7 maybe let Valve be of a little assistance in integrating a good game shop and online multiplayer experience Allow AMD/ATi to sell them on some higher grade parts instead of fully customizing older parts for size and power consumption control.
Android is open-source so Nintendo could just take it and create their own fork to it like Amazon does for the Kindle Fire. I doubt Nintendo could convince Google to help them do this because Google doesn't particularly like companies tweaking the operating system and skipping the Google part of Android (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/). Nintendo may be okay with that because they don't care about Google's apps. Nintendo would just need someone else to do create their own alternate version of Android for them if they can do it themselves (and they probably can't if Wii U operating system is anything to go by).
Getting Valve to help them on their online store and system would solve the problem of going outside of Google with an Android fork. It may be a good idea to get Google's blessing so as not to rock the boat. Nintendo could include Google's apps which is what Google wants even if Google doesn't build this version of Android for Nintendo themselves. Nintendo could include a "Powered by Android" sticker and hey, everyone wins.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Stogi on January 30, 2014, 12:39:24 AM
Nintendo should crowdsource they're OS. I bet an enthusiastic team of japanese kids could make a better OS.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 30, 2014, 01:25:28 AM
I can't wait for this to become reality
Quote from: Iwata
On Wii U, we launched Nintendo Network IDs, which are abbreviated as NNIDs. This is the first step of our efforts to transform customer relationship management from device-based to account-based, namely, consumer-based, through which we aim to establish long-term relationships with individual consumers, unaffected by the lifespans of our systems. Our future platform will connect with our consumers based on accounts, not devices.
I'm guessing and mostly hoping that virtual console 2.0 launches on the same day with massive library available on day one.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 30, 2014, 02:32:10 AM
Looks like Club Nintendo is about to gain some value
Quote
As we continue to redefine our platforms from a device-based system to an account-based system using NNIDs, we will also try to change the way in which dedicated video game systems as well as software are sold that people have come to take for granted. The way in which dedicated video game systems and their software are sold has not changed significantly since the business model of dedicated video game platforms was first established 30 years ago. Dedicated video game systems are sold for two hundred or three hundred dollars, on which standalone software titles are distributed for 30 or 50 dollars. This simple model received widespread support from consumers that enabled us to create today’s market. The decision to change it is the manifestation of our recognition that we cannot expect this model to work forever amid dynamic changes in people’s lifestyles. If we succeed in the redefinition of video game platforms that I speak of today, our account-based connections with consumers will become very clear. For example, until now it has been taken for granted that software is offered to users at the same price regardless of how many titles they purchase in a year, be it one, five or even ten titles. Based on our account system, if we can offer flexible price points to consumers who meet certain conditions, we can create a situation where these consumers can enjoy our software at cheaper price points when they purchase more. Here, we do not need to limit the condition to the number of software titles they purchase. Inviting friends to start playing a particular software title is also an example of a possible condition. If we can achieve such a sales mechanism, we can expect to increase the number of players per title, and the players will play our games with more friends. This can help maintain the high usage ratio of a platform. When one platform maintains a high active use ratio, the software titles which run on it have a higher potential to be noticed by many, which leads to more people playing with more titles. When we see our overall consumers, they generally play two or three titles per year. We aim to establish a new sales mechanism that will be beneficial to both consumers and software creators by encouraging our consumers to play more titles and increasing a platform’s active use ratio without largely increasing our consumers’ expenditures. Nintendo aims to work on this brand-new sales mechanism in the medium term, but we would like to start experimenting with Wii U at an early stage.
The more you buy, the cheaper it gets. Discounts for bulk gamers, Uncle Bob should be so pleased to hear that. Instead of pointlessly increasing your gamer score, you get to gradually raise your gamer discount. Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: Adrock on January 30, 2014, 03:07:53 AM
Yes to all of that. All the time. Forever.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 30, 2014, 03:54:57 AM
By the end of the current generation Nintendo's going to be paying me to play their games.
Title: Re: “The Wii U isn’t in good shape,” Iwata said.
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on January 30, 2014, 07:15:40 AM
Lol, I don't think Nintendo would be quite that aggressive.
I could see them doing what Sony does. Spend $50 in the month, get a $5 or $10 eshop card. Or buy 3 eshop games get 10% off your entire purchase. Maybe 10% off games once you hit platinum status. I wouldn't see them giving any rewards for physical games or giving rewards based on anything purchased over a year old. They want you to purchase new content after all.
Title: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2014, 11:41:52 AM
"Abandon Old Assumptions"...“Mergers and Acquisitions are an option" said Iwata http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/01/satoru_iwata_states_that_nintendo_should_abandon_old_assumptions_about_its_businesses
Quote
Nintendo has undergone continuous changes over years, moving from Hanafuda playing cards to video games, and offering newer systems like the Wii. But we've been preoccupied with a fixed idea of what a game should be like. The game industry is at a turning point amid new developments like the rise of smartphones. ...Mr. Yamauchi (former President Hiroshi Yamauchi) often said "Shitsui-taizen, Tokui-reizen," meaning that we should act regally when things are bad, and be calm when things are going well." Were he alive now, he would tell me to carry an air of confidence. We built up cash reserves when earnings were strong. Because the entertainment industry ebbs and flows in wild swings, Mr. Yamauchi insisted it is vital to have deep pockets. Without savings, we could not have recovered from a single failure in game systems. Even now, we can afford many options because of our robust financial standing.
Quote
We'll change the way we sell products, by managing customer information via the Internet. We'll offer discounts to steady, regular customers. We'll cultivate emerging markets and launch new businesses in health and other areas. In an emerging country, you can expand the user base only after you offer a product line different from advanced economies in pricing. We should abandon old assumptions about our businesses. We are considering M&As [mergers and acquisitions] as an option. For this reason, we'll step up share buybacks.
Let the shopping spree begin? Where should they start?
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Adrock on January 31, 2014, 12:36:37 PM
Let the shopping spree begin? Where should they start?
As long as they're intelligent about the acquisitions, go for it. They shouldn't overpay just because they're open to acquiring a company.
My personal wish list: Wayforward Technologies, Mistwalker, Platinum Games, and Vanillaware. They're small and make games Nintendo themselves do not make (there's some overlap with Wayforward Technologies). Put them to work strictly making console games. These are low risk, medium reward acquisitions. If Nintendo could pick up MercurySteam, do that.
It will be difficult to acquire larger companies though if there's a decent one on the block, inquire. I think this only works if Nintendo allows them to do their own thing with minimum micro-managing. For example, if Nintendo acquires Company X who are working on a title then tells then to put Mario in it, that just isn't going to work.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Ceric on January 31, 2014, 12:44:58 PM
... Let the shopping spree begin? Where should they start?
The Patent Companies that just hold Patents to sue people. In Particular not just the ones that Sue Nintendo but the ones that Sue MS and Sony as well.
Occulus VR as a Seed to start a Hardware branch in the US.
Wizard of the Coast for a step into Tradition.
If they are serious about going into Medical there are a lot of little medical companies that are making some promising tech.
Acquire a Publisher to be Nintendo's Touchstone and release more mature games and even games on other consoles without the Nintendo tie unless you dig.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on January 31, 2014, 01:01:04 PM
... Let the shopping spree begin? Where should they start?
More baseball teams :P
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 31, 2014, 01:05:36 PM
The time for acquisitions was when THQ went under. They missed that by, what, a year? I'm not sure who they could merge with. For the most part I would still want Nintendo calling the shots in regards to whoever they merge with. Otherwise Nintendo would effectively be dead.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2014, 01:06:54 PM
Buying Occulus and incorporating that into the video game 3rd pillar - return of the Virtual Boy, is an interesting idea. Could also tie in nicely with their QoL health stuff, or the next Metroid Prime.
As far as acquiring their own Touchstone, another interesting idea was purchasing SquareEnix. They would get all the Final Fantasies and Dragon Quest, and then they can use Eidos as their Touchstone.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: broodwars on January 31, 2014, 01:11:00 PM
Yeah, Nintendo had a golden opportunity to scoop up potential studios last year for cheap when THQ when under and Atlus went up for sale, and they let them pass by, but Nintendo was too wrapped-up in what a runaway success the Wii U was bound to be. As for future acquisitions, I'd prefer if Nintendo picked up some small studios & expanded their existing ones so they can finally branch out and do something other than Mario/Zelda/Pokemon. We have enough mega-corporations in the video game industry. I'd rather one of the ones that are already Monolithic like Square-Enix not be made even larger.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2014, 01:20:39 PM
Supposedly Nintendo was a bidder on the Atlus sale, they just weren't willing to pony up the little extra cash to make it happen.... ooops. And THQ was a major oversight. The Darksiders IP w/ dev team intact would have been a good deal for Nintendo, along with the Saints Row IP and dev team.
They really need to get some more western devs under their wings and those 2 would have been a good start.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 31, 2014, 02:36:49 PM
Because Square Enix owns Eidos they own some big PC games. If Nintendo grabbed someone like that would they allow those games to be available on GOG or Stream? Would they let all those Playstation Final Fantasy's get re-released on PSN? Most third parties have historical content that could realistically only be re-released on non-Nintendo platforms. Would Nintendo allow that or would they just sit on that stuff?
I could also imagine Nintendo owning tons of cool retro games and they just hold it all hostage while their VC gets games at a snail's pace. I could see such a thing as potentially better for Nintendo but worse for gaming as a whole.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Adrock on January 31, 2014, 03:04:36 PM
If Nintendo purchased a company with digital games available on other platforms, I'd imagine those games would be removed immediately. If you have a game downloaded, there's nothing Nintendo could do to stop you from having it, but if something were to happen to your hard drive and you still want that game, well, I hope you like Nintendo hardware because that's the only place you'd see it available again.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 31, 2014, 03:22:57 PM
So if Nintendo bought Square Enix hypothetically then we can say goodbye to Final Fantasy VII-XIV in their original designed-for-Playstation-consoles form? Yeah, I'm hoping for the greater good that Nintendo aims a little lower. Sadly I can't think of any company worth a **** that didn't release most of their best stuff from the past 15 years on non-Nintendo platforms.
It's probably for the best that Nintendo just try to grab smaller devs to expand their output and get games out on a decent schedule and not worry as much about obtaining IP. Odds are if they had someone else's IP they would screw it up, and I think that applies to most companies. It's no different than how I wouldn't expect a different publisher to understand what makes Mario and Zelda great. They need more teams and should let them work on stuff outside the same old franchises to provide variety and maybe stumble upon a new IP that becomes the next big thing.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Ceric on January 31, 2014, 04:10:35 PM
*shrug* I really doubt most of the movement will be in the Video Game space. Nintendo is probably looking to branch and expand out of their current place. The Video Game ride is done. Time to find a new major business.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Adrock on January 31, 2014, 04:17:27 PM
So if Nintendo bought Square Enix hypothetically then we can say goodbye to Final Fantasy VII-XIV in their original designed-for-Playstation-consoles form?
Yeah, probably. It's not like Rare's SNES and N64 games showed up on Virtual Console. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but it's close enough. I'm not really sure why it matters as long as those old games would be available (and they would because Nintendo hock the **** out of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy if given the chance) though it sucks if you paid for it and lost the file somehow.
Quote
It's probably for the best that Nintendo just try to grab smaller devs to expand their output and get games out on a decent schedule and not worry as much about obtaining IP. Odds are if they had someone else's IP they would screw it up, and I think that applies to most companies.
I'd prefer it. The smaller developers are making some of the most original stuff right now. If Nintendo went IP shopping, I think it'd be fine as long as Nintendo left them be. Disney didn't tell Pixar how to make Pixar movies after the 2006 acquisition. Offering suggestions is one thing, dictating how to make games Nintendo has no clue about is another. I wouldn't be too worried about that anyway. Monolith Soft is given a tremendous amount of freedom. They're under Nintendo's umbrella, but Nintendo seems to let them to their own thing.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2014, 04:38:48 PM
I think a better example would have been Disney didn't tell Marvel how to make movies. I'm pretty sure Pixar & Disney are all inter-mingled at this point, at least at the management level.
But point stands.
A larger focus on acquisitions in the west is where I hope they look. But I also agree that we are likely to see Nintendo snatch up some small medical tech company here and there along with mostly smaller dev houses looking for steady income and focus.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on January 31, 2014, 04:49:24 PM
For starters: The can acquire the Blu-Ray playback rights so I don't have to buy another player for my downstairs tv. (selfish)
Unfortunately, I think this has less to do with developers and studio and more to do with Medical equipment and Education. I live in whats called a "Recession proof city" (Philadelphia) since we have an abundance of Hospitals, universities and colleges within the city limits. Those areas are less effected by the changing economic market. Flash back to 2008: "Wiihab" was born. Retirement communities, rehab facilities and special needs schools all started to buy the Wii just so the clients could play Bowling and Tennis. This is a major factor in the Wii's success, not just the casual Mom. I have heard of prescriptions for playing Wii sports and the likes. Even Wii Fit gym's in limited office spaces.(we have 2 in the cafe area where I work @comcast)
THIS IS YOUR FUTURE. IWATACARE
PLEASE BUY PLATINUM GAMES AND SEGA.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2014, 05:15:54 PM
Would Sammy sell off the Sega portion of their business, with all IP's in tact? or Would Nintendo have to absorb them whole, pachinko business and all?
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Khushrenada on January 31, 2014, 05:29:03 PM
Take the pachinko business and then corner the mobile games market with pachinko apps and watch the money roll in. Investors are happy, no first party games go to mobile platforms and the Nintendo/Sega battle reaches its near 30 year conclusion.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Ceric on January 31, 2014, 05:33:32 PM
Honestly by my understanding Sammy without Sega is more profitable.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: ThePerm on January 31, 2014, 06:24:04 PM
I'm going to buy Sega stock
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2014, 06:34:17 PM
Take the pachinko business and then corner the mobile games market with pachinko apps and watch the money roll in. Investors are happy, no first party games go to mobile platforms and the Nintendo/Sega battle reaches its near 30 year conclusion.
That... that is probably a BRILLIANT idea. accounts tied to credit cards, mobile Pachinko on the go. Gamble anywhere. of course it misses the physicality of it all, but it just might catch on. and Nintendo is a game company, why not branch into the adult side of gaming... gambling. The House does always eventually win. and they could certainly use a win right now.
(especially with it being rumored that Apple is about to make some acquisitions of it's own regarding Health and Fitness - wearables)
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Kytim89 on January 31, 2014, 06:48:32 PM
Nintendo should have bought Volition and Vigil Games when they had the chance. It would be interesting to see how the market would react if Saint's Row and Darksiders were exclusive to Nintendo consoles. Buying back Rare's IPs would be a smart move as well. As for buying bigger companies, Nintendo should create better alliances between Square and Capcom. Then buyout weaker developers like Platinum and Vanillaware.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: lolmonade on January 31, 2014, 07:33:58 PM
Forget Nintendo buying game publishers. They need to purchase a company that can help expedite their getting to the present with online functionality.
If they can't find a good acquisition that meets that need, then they need to revisit a strategic partnership with a company that has established experience with providing a user-friendly, intuitive, online enabled front-end experience.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 31, 2014, 07:42:27 PM
I really like the Sega/nintendo merger, not aquisition. Let them become a team. Sega, you do your game thing, with some nintendo guidance and foresight...and we will do our nintendo thing. Imagine a future where the Wii U was a beautiful Nintendo/Dreamcast like system that had all the creative Sega games and Nintendo games together.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: nickmitch on January 31, 2014, 08:55:21 PM
When I read that Nintendo was open to M&A, I think my brain jumped to the worst conclusions. I'd hate to see Nintendo ever not be its own company.
But I agree that if Nintendo is trying to buy up companies now, then that's the best possible news. They've a lot of boats over the years (Rare), and it's good that they're willing to at least show up to the docks.
I'm hoping Nintendo can nab Sega from Sammy, but I won't hold my breath.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Shaymin on January 31, 2014, 09:34:41 PM
Two characters Nintendo should be going after hard: M2.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Khushrenada on January 31, 2014, 10:53:47 PM
Take the pachinko business and then corner the mobile games market with pachinko apps and watch the money roll in. Investors are happy, no first party games go to mobile platforms and the Nintendo/Sega battle reaches its near 30 year conclusion.
That... that is probably a BRILLIANT idea. (and then other words not praising me)
But, of course. It came from me after all.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Arbok on February 01, 2014, 11:26:41 AM
Sounds like we are going into merger fantasy talks.
Capcom would be my dream merger, as they both have a lot to offer each other and have some of the more recognized franchises in video games. Capcom brings the more adult oriented titles they lack with franchises that have street cred (Resident Evil especially).
If we are talking major corporation level mergers, though, Disney swooping in would be another good outcome. As BlackNMild2k1 mentioned, they have allowed Marvel and Pixar to act on their own... and have a lot of marketing opportunities through merchandising wings and especially the parks (although they would be buying Toho away from owning every company I care about at this point). All the same there would be some major shakeups in how Nintendo acts if something like this is the outcome.
In reality, if something does come out of this, I'm expecting something out of left field.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 01, 2014, 12:41:49 PM
Speaking of parks, remember how Iwata also stated that they would be more opportunistic in licensing their IP out.
Imagine all those parks out there that aren't Six flags (WB) or Disney, that are dying to find something more marketable than random stuffed animals and Peanuts characters like Charlie Brown.
Think of all the marketing Nintendo will instantly have nation wide. From kids walking around with Mario & Luigi hats, bowser shell backpacks, koopa and gooma pillow pets, princess Peach and Zelda dresses, Link Swords, DK Ties, Giant Yoshi & Kirby Bean bag pets, a much better arcade (Mario Kart 4 player, F-Zero, DK, SMB, etc etc), Characters walking around taking pictures and giving autographs. Re-themed kids areas and rides. So much money and marketing that Nintendo has been ignoring for decades while letting Peanuts stay relevant by default.
So instead of waiting for Disney to buy them out, they could make moves to be increase product awareness without them.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Stratos on February 01, 2014, 03:29:28 PM
I actually think Disney would be a good merger option when it comes to merchandising. At least then we in the West stand a better shot at getting all of those cool things that Nintendo only gives to Japan. Disney could just give them the Marvel treatment and let them do their own thing with only minor supervision. Plus think of the opportunity with Smash Brothers for cameos.
I'd love Nintendo to join with Capcom of all the larger game companies. But realistically I could better see small studios like Platinum. Smaller studios that have the possibility to supplement Nintendo's lineup with games and genres that they are not currently strong in. I know a few years ago they could have picked up Factor 5.
They could also pick up the former Silicone Knights team and make Shadow of the Eternals the Eternal Darkness 2 we want it to be. They did say they will leverage older unused IPs more so we may still have a shot at seeing ED return to glory. Then follow that up with another Psychological Thriller title. Maybe a good, Nintendo inspired Resident Evil idea.
Speaking of older titles, what about reviving Diddy Kong Racing? That was a very fun, unique take of the racer and I think Nintendo could stand to broaden out past Mario Kart. Make it a launch title for the new Nintendo console or as a swan song for the Wii U that will potentially get MK fans to come back to the well and give the console a strong final year.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Ceric on February 01, 2014, 03:32:14 PM
I really doubt that Nintendo would be a Pixar. Instead they be a Disney.
Whatever Nintendo does remember 1 thing. Nintendo will always be the Top of its corporate food chain.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 01, 2014, 04:22:58 PM
I really doubt that Nintendo would be a Pixar. Instead they be a Disney.
Whatever Nintendo does remember 1 thing. Nintendo will always be the Top of its corporate food chain.
Yeah anyone who thinks Nintendo will give up their power to make their own decisions doesn't know Nintendo. If Nintendo was to merge with anyone the final outcome would be one that still heavily Nintendo with Iwata still in charge and the majority of the Board of Directors still Nintendo people.
Even though they've had a bad year, Nintendo is still far from being in a position where they'd allow themselves to be bought by a larger company like Disney.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Mop it up on February 01, 2014, 06:49:49 PM
It baffles me that they weren't doing more of this during the Wii era when they had all that money. I know it ain't easy, but still...
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: nickmitch on February 01, 2014, 08:58:52 PM
I'm not sure if Nintendo's investors or even leadership would want a western company owning Nintendo.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: the asylum on February 02, 2014, 02:56:24 PM
For all the **** I give Iwata, if he were to outright buy Interplay (or at least secure exclusive publishing rights to Earthworm Jim), and finally gave the world a real sequel to Earthworm Jim 2 (since EWJ3D was horrid), I will immediately forgive him of his various sins.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 02, 2014, 02:59:11 PM
When I was at Disney World a couple of months ago I was thinking about how the only company that could buy Nintendo and get it right would probably be Disney.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Stratos on February 02, 2014, 04:43:44 PM
It could give us a good Epic Mickey.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Shaymin on February 02, 2014, 07:03:13 PM
You think Nintendo's VC trickle is bad now? Throwing those games into the Disney Vault will *not* help.
Still, if they did a Saving Mr. Banks with Pokemon I'd be all over that.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: nickmitch on February 02, 2014, 07:30:13 PM
Saving Pokemon Bank?
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 02, 2014, 08:27:14 PM
I don't think Nintendo investors know what they want. The problem with investors are that most do not care about the company or their product.
There used to be a time, when investing in a company was done, because you believed in the company and the product. You were buying shares to sorta be a partner with the business vision.
Now, it is just about making a profit with stocks...which I am not saying is bad...but it means that many investors don't really care what Nintendo does as long as they make money off the stock. They don't understand Nintendo's vision or business at all. This is why they see smart phone games as the same thing as console and handheld games. A game is a game...and if the market for games (potential buyers) is larger then you take your games there. They don't understand what damage to the Nintendo brand that COULD cause. Or what effects it will have on the long term health of the company. They don't really care, they want their profits now.
I have been reading Nintendo's response to the investors and their financial reports, and I am impressed that Nintendo is finally acting and beginning to see a need for change. I am hopeful that Nintendo will strive for Nintendo style change and not pushed to something different.
If acquisition can be made that benefits Nintendo and keeps Nintendo, Nintendo then it should happen. So for instance, Nintendo buying 2-3 small Western developers in the US and Europe then allowing NOA and NOE to run those development houses that would be a positive change.
If Nintendo would have a more aggressive release schedule allowing more games to come out each year either through publishing games from partners or 1st party releases that would be good.
If Nintendo Merged with a company that would allow Nintendo to be Nintendo but gave them a distinct advantage going into the future be it with IPs or hardware or Operating Systems, then Nintendo should do it.
I do not know what the future for Nintendo holds but I am more hopeful now than ever before. Nintendo always appears to be an underdog...but they have a big bite to them.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2014, 08:35:50 PM
You think Nintendo's VC trickle is bad now? Throwing those games into the Disney Vault will *not* help.
Still, if they did a Saving Mr. Banks with Pokemon I'd be all over that.
Disney would be a complete and total package if they were to acquire Nintendo.
Cartoons, they would take over Pokemon and all the Nintendo character cartoons. move to Disney XD with Marvel stuff Movies, animated and live action Comics - Marvel took over Star Wars and would handle all other Disney related print Videogames - Nintendo would oversee such things as Epic Mickey, Ducktales, etc etc. Of course, if they were gonna do that, they should probably pick up a few other studios to fill in Nintendo lack of expertise in FPS, Fighting and/or RPG games (Capcom & SE would go good with it - Marvel vs Capcom & Kingdom Hearts)
That's all not gonna happen though, but it might not be so bad if it did.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 02, 2014, 09:14:00 PM
Disney has acquired too much recently. Although Nintendo would be a great purchase for them, and would give them an instant IN to another media source it just won't happen.
But if Nintendo and Disney were smart a merger would be fantastic.
1) Disney could use some new and known IPs. Imagine a cool Nintendo themed Amusement Park, and animated movies and such. 2) Disney would have a successful and known company to launch all their games from and corner the market. 3) Imagine a console with a single stop source for all Star Wars, Marvel, Disney, and Nintendo characters. A system with an already family friendly approach and name to gaming. You think that wouldn't sell units? Of course it would. 4) Disney could even acquire the rights to republish all classic SNES games under their franchises for instant Virtual Console sales to help ease the merger costs.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 02, 2014, 09:24:45 PM
We'd probably get decent Metroid and Legend of Zelda movies.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 02, 2014, 09:56:39 PM
Zelda Maybe...Metroid...probably not.
I think both franchises are really hard to make movies out of. They are both fetch quest games. Go to this dungeon/level get a power up and kill a giant monster and move on. It would be very hard to expand those to full movie universes.
The Legend of Zelda is the easiest. As you can limit the movie to be about an adventurer proving his courage to gain the triforce from overcoming 3 tasks/challenges (keeping the theme of 3) and then battling the evil Gannondorf.
But you would really need to write Zelda to be a wise princesses, because she would need to already have the triforce of wisdom.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Oblivion on February 02, 2014, 10:13:21 PM
I fail to see how Metroid would be hard to make a film. Especially when Metroid has the most story and an easy timeline of events.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on February 02, 2014, 10:25:49 PM
Now, it is just about making a profit with stocks...which I am not saying is bad...but it means that many investors don't really care what Nintendo does as long as they make money off the stock.
Nintendo only cares about making profit too. Did Nintendo reinvest all those Wii/DS profits back into game making? It appears to me they were too busy high fiving each other and approving big bonuses for their work.
Quote
I have been reading Nintendo's response to the investors and their financial reports, and I am impressed that Nintendo is finally acting and beginning to see a need for change. I am hopeful that Nintendo will strive for Nintendo style change and not pushed to something different.
Can you really have your cake and eat it too? You're saying it's all the investors fault and then you say that you are impressed that Nintendo knows they need to change? I guess the difference between me and you is I'm not impressed at all with the ways Nintendo is coming up with change.
Investors get a bad rap. Yes, alot are idiots (as are alot of people that we all know), but by far the largest portion of investments are for retirements which means investors are incentivized to consider the long term outcomes of a company. Almost daily there is an article about Nintendo being out of touch or irrelevant to gaming. Or an article about how much Nintendo is missing sales and profit targets and may need to start laying off employees. The industry doesn't believe in Nintendo, how can you expect investors? Heck, Nintendo doesn't even believe in themselves stating that they need to keep bringing irregular hardware to the market. Why should that matter? People love the games, not your hardware. Your hardware is part of the reason you're in this predicament.
Nintendo has had something like 4 straight years of operating loss from core products and warned that their will be a fifth year. The last couple years of the Wii were a disaster and the Wii U is a failure. Those failures are on management, not the investors. If Nintendo had sold 9 million Wii Us this year, investors would be happy kittens not concerned with mobile devices. It would appear to me that due to their recent financial failures, Nintendo is both a short term and long term investment risk.
I love Nintendo games. I've always hated their business practices. That's why I think it's interesting that Nintendo fans are always adamant that Nintendo is doing it the right way and they better not change their approach. Nintendo is less consumer friendly than Apple and certainly is less consumer friendly than competing consoles. The reality is I've dealt with them because I spend way to much on video games and I love their games. If they are forced to be more consumer friendly I won't shed a tear. Anybody who acquires Nintendo IPs will know how important it is to get those games right or lose the value of the investment as the Nintendo fans leave and nobody is left to buy the games. Miyamoto is going to retire soon anyway. I can't really think of another person at Nintendo who has star power and will ensure that Nintendo's development future is bright. I'm unsure of Nintendo's future (especially their future in my household). And I bought a Wii U even knowing that it was tanking badly at $350 before the pricedrop.
I'm their target audience and I'm becoming disenfranchised with their decisions. Nintendo management and their investors should be scared at their future. I mean what are we talking about here? Movies, fitness equipment? I get Nintendo's a business and needs to make money, but I don't care about anything they do unless it's related to video games. If they have to find another way to survive they might as well not survive. I mean let's be honest here. If Nintendo moves into fitness and makes money over there, but continues to lose money in the console business, do you really expect them to subsidize the console business so you can get your games? I certainly don't.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 02, 2014, 11:03:20 PM
I didn't mean to imply it is investors faults. Actually, I never accused blame at all.
The decisions of a company are solely the responsibility of the leadership running the company, and investors do not run the company. They never do. So the decisions made that put Nintendo into this situation are the decisions of Nintendo Management.
My comments on Nintendo investors is simply that many investors do not know the business they are investing in, and demand change without truly understanding the changes they are asking for. I believe this truly represents the Nintendo investors.
Now, about Nintendo fans and the company. I have been on these forums for over ten years. I have read many opinions from Nintendo fans. Most do not approve of their business practices, and most do not feel that Nintendo is infallible. What I think Nintendo fans appreciate are Nintendo's games. Nintendo has a certain style about their games. Some people hate the style and call it kiddie. But those that appreciate Nintendo's games love the style, quality, and just overall craftsmanship Nintendo usually puts into their games. Now you can argue that has been changing over the years and have been progressively getting worse. But Nintendo still keeps its style, and I never want to see that go away.
Unfortunately, you have to take the good with the bad. Last generation if you wanted to have the best online console experience you had to pay for it with Xbox Live. Everybody complains about it...but not it is a reality with both PS4 and Xbox One you pay for online.
Well, Nintendo has its quirks as well, and some/many of them are not that great for gamers and are frustrating, but others give you that pure Nintendo magic that when it works...it works beautifully.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 02, 2014, 11:09:58 PM
I fail to see how Metroid would be hard to make a film. Especially when Metroid has the most story and an easy timeline of events.
Because the story elements of Metroid are usually the elements gamers hate about the series. The atmosphere and exploration of a hostile alien planet are what we love. Further though, most people agree the feeling of alone and a sole explorer is important. Along with the dread of the unknown from your weakness and slowly growing in strength to overcome.
In movies you almost never get that loneliness. You have to have a cast and banter. You have to build likable characters that play off each other. Basically, the best they could do with Metroid is a PG-13 Alien/Aliens knock off. That ends with Samus exploring and trying to survive the planet alone. I just don't see it working at all.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: Nemo on February 02, 2014, 11:38:56 PM
Because the story elements of Metroid are usually the elements gamers hate about Metroid: Other M.
Fixed.
I liked the story elements in other Metroid games... just not Other M.
Fair.
Title: Re: "Mergers & Acquisitions are an option” Iwata said.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 03:46:53 AM
Quote
I love Nintendo games. I've always hated their business practices. That's why I think it's interesting that Nintendo fans are always adamant that Nintendo is doing it the right way and they better not change their approach.
Uh, what!? The main thing we complain about with Nintendo is the way they do EVERYTHING. Always trying to reinvent the wheel by doing things the "Nintendo" way.
Title: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 01:15:51 PM
One software platform to rule them all right now. Hybrid may come later. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html)
Quote from: Investor Q&A
Investor:
You have explained your concern about users being divided by hardware. Currently, you have both a handheld device business and a home console business. I would like to know whether the organizational changes that took place last year are going to lead to, for example, the integration of handheld devices and home consoles into one system over the medium term, or a focus on cost saving and the improvement of resource efficiency in the medium run. Please also explain if you still have room to reduce research and development expenses.
Iwata:
Last year Nintendo reorganized its R&D divisions and integrated the handheld device and home console development teams into one division under Mr. Takeda. Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development. However, because of vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration. We discussed this point, and we ultimately concluded that it was the right time to integrate the two teams.
For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Also, as technological advances took place at such a dramatic rate, and we were forced to choose the best technologies for video games under cost restrictions, each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.
Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.
Please read the whole thing, I would bold more, but I'm on a tablet.
So Nintendo wishes to make ONE software architecture that will span all their future devices, making cross buy and cross play not only possible, but really easy.
Something that absorbs the Wii U's architecture.... I'll assume they mean will be backward compatible with the Wii U OS, not the hardware. like the Windows 7 to the Wii U's Vista.
It is important to recognize that these changes start on the Wii U as all the efforts they put into bringing software and fixes to the Wii U OS/architecture, will carry forward onto the next console and/or handheld(/hybrid) too. So if they manage to do the big fix to the VC using a universal emulator, that same VC service should be 100% forward compatible with whatever hardware Nintendo releases after the Wii U, meaning your paid library and the entire released catalog should still all be available for all hardware running the N2.OS (or NOS2?)
Now assuming they were also talking about a hardware architecture, which I also assume they meant (same family of processors, same family of GPU scaled for need of hardware ie. n7 uses a ATi HD7500 and the 4DS uses a HD7500m, same family, similar features, different power and level of specs), I would think that Nintendo would do all they can to shrink the Wii U hardware down to something that would fit in a portable system. whether they want to keep it strictly portable or go the home synced hybrid route is a whole different discussion, but a Wii U portable, would fall in line with Iwata wanting to "absorb the Wii U architecture" essentially recouping on Wii U's initial investment, leaving plenty of room to push power with it's home console to more in line with competing hardware at reasonable cost.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 03, 2014, 02:17:16 PM
Nintendo next console and handheld could be both ARM or X86-64. I suppose sticking with IBM would allow Nintendo's successors to "absorb the Wii U architecture adequately." However, Nintendo's handhelds already use ARM (Wii and Wii U both have an ARM "security processor" as well) and PS4/One joined PC/Mac with X86 so those would be better choices. Given Nintendo's weird obsession with energy efficiency (as well as cost), I kind of feel like a future ARM-based home console is a possibility. Seeing some of what's possible today, ARM has made some significant leaps in power, but they're not touching X86. At the same time, I read that Intel has made major inroads with energy consumption so that's something to keep in mind. My understanding is that Haswell was a big step up in terms of higher performance and better energy consumption.
And of course, sharing an operating system like iOS between iPhones and iPads would certainly help.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 03, 2014, 02:20:08 PM
PS4 has an additional ARM processor too.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: ShyGuy on February 03, 2014, 02:30:02 PM
A combined operating system platform would with the majority of games releasing on both would solve a number issues, especially software droughts. Imagine if every big title that came out on the 3DS last year also released on Wii U.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on February 03, 2014, 02:37:41 PM
I just finished reading this page.
Stock is nothing more than an Opinion poll. Always has been Always will Be. You could be losing Billions and if people still have a favorable opinion about your future and your company your stock will rise. You could be growing like Gangbusters with a bright future but, if people have low opinion of you company your stock will fall.
Metroid would easily make a better movie than Zelda. Just base it off the Super Metroid Comic in Nintendo Power. Bam! Awesome movie.
For a performance edge Nintendo staying away from x86 would be better. x86 is not a good chipset. Its just the defacto standard. Even Intel was going to be fully away from it by now in there original Roadmap in early 2000.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 02:39:43 PM
Don't forget that AMD just announced it's first ARM chip http://www.anandtech.com/show/7724/it-begins-amd-announces-its-first-arm-based-server-soc-64bit8core-opteron-a1100 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7724/it-begins-amd-announces-its-first-arm-based-server-soc-64bit8core-opteron-a1100)
It's for a server, but that doesn't mean it's the only one they are working on. It's also based off of the Cortex A7's.
And IBM jkust late last year announced that they licensed a bunch of ARM based designs, more specifcally, Cortex Processors.... http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/42296.wss
We also know that IBM has worked with AMD/ATi on previous Nintendo hardware (GC, Wii & Wii U)
and GAF says that insiders have said that Nintendo has already secured it's chip manufacturer.
so I wouldn't be surprised if they were going with a IBM/AMD system again, possibly based on an ARM SoC backed by a ATi GPGPU, but I know nothing about that stuff, so that is mostly a blind speculation.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: ShyGuy on February 03, 2014, 02:46:52 PM
This is starting to get interesting. This hybrid-brother-third-pillar kind of situation makes me think we will see a new hand held in 2015 to start this off. I can see a big handheld, a little hand held and a TV box version.
3DS will be five years old, perfect time to start something that is easy transition a lot of the Wii U eshop titles to bulk up the catalog.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Oblivion on February 03, 2014, 02:53:39 PM
It'll be four years old, not five.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on February 03, 2014, 02:56:22 PM
Honestly with this new context getting DS games working on the WiiU makes a whole lot more sense. DS is a hop, skip, and a Jump away from 3DS. DS is Proof of concept for BC for the NextDS. Which the tea leaves are looking like will have compatibly with the WiiU at the digital game level.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 02:58:51 PM
Honestly with this new context getting DS games working on the WiiU makes a whole lot more sense. DS is a hop, skip, and a Jump away from 3DS. DS is Proof of concept for BC for the NextDS. Which the tea leaves are looking like will have compatibly with the WiiU at the digital game level.
Yes, it sounds like all efforts made on Wii U will not be lost and rebooted with the next hardware, which is why this is such exciting news. for the first time, Nintendo will actually be able to continually move forward instead of trying to recreate the same things in different ways for new hardware. Once they solve the VC emulation with Miiverse and OffTV play, it's solved for good, time to move onto adding extra features like online scoreboards and simultaneous videochat. Once they bring over the 3/DS emulator, digital software carryover will follow from hardware to hardware as it's tied to accounts and not systems.
Bring on the: (http://i.imgur.com/Sv8fBXI.png)
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Oblivion on February 03, 2014, 03:09:33 PM
I know this, BnM. I was one of the poor saps that bought one at launch. But ShyGuy didn't say the end of 2015, but 2015 in general.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 03:23:06 PM
I'm assuming he meant a traditional holiday launch, as that was when I've been proposing the launch of the successor handheld(hybrid?) myself.
3DS has done well, but at nearly 5 years in, Nintendo needs to push and cement that NewNintendo directive and 3DS is the weak link in that roadmap. They should have all their ducks in a row and be ready to kick off new hardware with this new ecosystem in place, all systems and features ready at launch. 3DS BC from the start means smooth transition for whatever comes next.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: ShyGuy on February 03, 2014, 03:43:14 PM
Sorry, yeah I meant a traditional holiday launch.
I think this means we will see digital download titles move from generation to generation. Virtual Machine should have been cumulative, and e-shop too as much as possible. I wish Wii e-shop titles like Lost Winds, World of Goo and Strong Bad had been available in the Wii U e-shop for an upgrade price.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 03:57:03 PM
I think this means we will see digital download titles move from generation to generation. Virtual Machine should have been cumulative, and e-shop too as much as possible. I wish Wii e-shop titles like Lost Winds, World of Goo and Strong Bad had been available in the Wii U e-shop for an upgrade price.
I wouldn't be surprised (actually I would be very surprised) if all of this is in Nintendo's plan for the next next BIG update, not the summer one, but the one to be announced at E3 as coming by Xmas 2014 or something. -Universal accounts = 1 NNID, 1 Wallet, 1 eShop, 1 VC, 1 Nintendo Experience -Wii becomes a channel within the Wii U, not a separate boot sector (GamePad compatible now) -VC rom dump with upgraded universal emulator with new features built in -WiiWare and 3/DS/i software on the eShop (also playable on the Wii U)
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on February 03, 2014, 04:56:56 PM
This desire to absorb the Wii U architecture just seems so idiotic when no one but Nintendo uses it. You have big problems with third party support and have for almost 20 years. So you build off this architecture that you and you alone are familiar with? That sort of approach where the hardware is designed solely for Nintendo's purposes is the whole goddamn reason the Wii U is an embarrassing flop. That approach destroys third party support and you need third party support to get anywhere. The only time Nintendo got by without it was because of a once-in-a-lifetime fad.
If that's their line of thinking, that the shitty irrelevant future-trivia-question-about-videogame-history-and-nothing-more failure that is the Wii U needs to preserved in the future in some way, then it's over. The Wii U successor is already a failure. If they had any idea what the hell they were doing they would avoid any and all similarities to the Wii U. The Wii U is a ****-up and every decision Nintendo made regarding it was wrong so NOTHING to do with should be preserved. Those that fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 05:16:17 PM
If Nintendo started from scratch all over again, then it wouldn't matter what they do now to fix the Wii U, because it would be for nothing as it can't be carried over to a new system.
The approach of Nintendo "absorbing the Wii U architecture" (and I'm just reiterating what I've already said before) allows them to continually move forward, as any advancements made today on the Wii U, will carry on through whatever hardware comes tomorrow.
Not really sure how you skipped past all the replies and the rest of the article to immediately focus on 1 sentence out of context. the entire statement in context was
Quote
while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.
So they will not necessarily be stuffing a Wii U into the next system, but they will build something that is in a way based on it, and takes advantage of the underlying foundation of the Wii U architecture to create something better that is scale-able between the handheld and console formats. There is nothing but positive news in that article.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: ShyGuy on February 03, 2014, 05:18:40 PM
Good heavens, this is what they said: "It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately."
I believe they are referring more to the software architecture rather than the CPU family.
The Wii Successor is already a failure? There is no Wii U successor. It's like me stating that your children are already failures. Sheesh.
edit: beaten by BnM.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on February 03, 2014, 05:31:12 PM
AS400 has a really cool system where all their code is compiled into an intermediately language much like Java and .Net but at a much lower level. It means that all they need to do to change the chip is to make sure that the translation layer which is very close to the hardware works. Nintendo could do much the same.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 03, 2014, 05:42:59 PM
Nintendo should just use Java as the base platform like Android, then everyone is an instant developer.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 03, 2014, 05:43:57 PM
So the question is what advances in hardware and archtexture and os in the WiiU are great and should be absorbed?
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on February 03, 2014, 06:00:56 PM
Except Java is a horrible language for the type of tuning you need for games. .Net is better but, its still a problem. Also Oracle hasn't been a great steward for Java.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: ShyGuy on February 03, 2014, 06:03:20 PM
Miiverse. NNID, which can grow. Wiimote and fit board support. AMD GPU. Unity engine. HTML5 support. TV remote. Excellent browser. Legacy virtual console and future DS support. Low latency local wireless. NFC.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on February 03, 2014, 06:10:03 PM
I never said they would use the same architecture, I said they would build off of it which is what I interpret "absorb" to mean in this context. They're talking about building off of it in some way, which I think is stupid as all hell.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 07:10:52 PM
So what do you suppose they do?
throw everything out and reinvent their already existing and functional OS to completely start from scratch so that we can end up with another subpar feature stripped OS in 2 years time that wasn't ready for the hardware launch?
Or should they take the Wii U OS they have, strip it down to the bare necessities and rebuild it around the already established foundation that has been proven to work. and have a fully functional, feature packed OS ready to go when the next piece of hardware is in 2 years time.
Oh, and I forgot to mention (actually I didn't, I've already pretty much said it twice) that this new OS needs to bring the current customers over to the New Hardware with all their current Nintendo stuff in tact.
Unless you are thinking that they are going to beef up the chipset (like GC->Wii) and rerelease the console again, I don't see the issue with Nintendo tweaking their Windows Vista (current Wii U OS) to turn it into Windows 7 (Wii U OS 2.0) and then launching their Win 8.2 on the next hardware.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 03, 2014, 08:18:15 PM
Yeah I don't see them going with any .NET language until Microsoft buys the company. Java in itself isn't all that great for games, but it can be built upon like Android Java. C# would be nice though.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: RedBlue on February 03, 2014, 09:47:04 PM
Not going to happen with the c# and Java stuff. They are both too slow hence why Android is so slow.
Once again Ian sane shows he doesn't understand anything about technology. Iwata is clearly talking about their engines. The future hardware will share similar architecture so they can use the same engines they have now and scale them to fit the device. They will also be able to develop high resolution assets and scale them. They been doing the same thing since the gamecube days.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 03, 2014, 10:49:11 PM
What about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Web_Framework
Quote
Nintendo Web Framework (codenamed bamboo) is a development environment based on WebKit technologies. It is used to develop video games for on the Wii U system using many different languages, including: HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS. Also, this framework supports the Wii U GamePad controller, Wii Remote controllers, and some other JavaScript extensions.[1]
On October 2013, Ubiquitous Entertainment announced that their smartphone Javascript framework “enchant.js” has been customized to work in connection with Nintendo Web Framework. One of the games to currently use enchant.js for Nintendo Web Framework is a shooting game called Glandarius WingStrike for Wii U.[2]
Does this have anything to do with the OS, or is this strictly for the game development?
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: RedBlue on February 03, 2014, 11:16:43 PM
That's for creating Web browser content (games). That could be a way to bridge different hardware architectures (ARM, powerful and x86/x64) it would be something like Chrome OS and chrome Web browser. Build a Chrome app and it works on any platform that chrome works in.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on February 04, 2014, 07:53:49 AM
12/31/15 could be a potential date for either a replacement for Wii U or 3DS. If sales are still strong I don't believe they will replace the 3DS at that time.
Things I picked up from the Q&A.
Don't expect powerful hardware..... pretty much ever. They've fully embraced software over hardware and aren't going back. When asked to clarify the power to the market Genyo said, " Whether a machine is powerful or not only has meaning in the context of whether that can express itself in terms of gameplay to consumers, and I therefore do not intend to go into fine detail about the specific numbers. I apologize for not directly answering your question, but it is my personal belief that explanations of such a nature have little relevance to consumers."
So hardware power is not relevant to you. Stop asking for more powerful hardware.
Don't expect M&A...... for now. It seems the previous openness to M&A was due to keeping options open rather than any targets. Iwata, "Currently, our video game dedicated platform business is reaching a transition stage in several different meanings, and we would like to have the option of using our shares for M&A purposes. We will not cling to this option for a long time, and when the transition stage ends, retirement of shares would be one option. "
The buyback shares will probably be retired.
No hybrid.... rather lots of hardware under the same O/S. Iwata, "Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS."
There are two ways he could be looking at this. 1. They could have various handhelds (I.E. console level handheld, middle powered handheld, cheap handheld) or they could have an annual release of hardware like Apple does. So you have Nintendo console 1, Nintendo console 2 the next year will upgrades. The year after that Nintendo console 3. Software is interesting then. Would all software be playable under all models (scalable) or would they use an IOS model where Ipad 2 can play most games but you would need an Ipad 5 to play intensive games. I tend to think the latter. This is why 2015 could be the Wii U replacement since they are building off that O/S. The Wii U could still be applicable for a while after being replaced if only a few of the future games can't play on the Wii U.
Nintendo isn't going to say it, but I expect a reduction in the manpower at Nintendo. Iwata, "s for the QOL (Quality of Life)-improving platform, I made some slides which explain how Nintendo came up with this idea. These are examples of something ordinary turning into a hit product with the power of applications. In 1980, we released “GAME & WATCH,” which, I am told, was an idea that was born from watching people use calculators. “GAME & WATCH” was made by adding an application to a watch, and this is the origin of the current handheld games. "
This leads me to believe they are not entirely sure what they are doing with QOL, but just know they want to do something fitness related. But what is interesting is this was in response to manpower. It's well known Iwata doesn't want to lay off, but he hasn't committed to hiring additional people to support his QOL platform either which is supposedly a big future endeavor. So I expect that resources will be allocated to QOL, fewer games will be made, but they'll mask it by having those games playable on console/handheld hardware so it looks to console owners like at least as many games are being made.
Two other quotes that suggest Nintendo is convinced the video game industry is shrinking and they are inclined to shrink with it.
Miyamoto, " Therefore, I feel that we have managed to overcome the challenge of releasing enough first-party franchises on Wii U. "
The Wii U was well supported from a software perspective. Don't expect future iterations to get more support. Couldn't find the exact quote, but Iwata said something similar to they were buying back shares because they couldn't give investors the types of dividends they had in the past.
Expect Nintendo software to become more basic (lowest common denominator). Iwata, "The reason we talked about such points today was because there are many consumers who are perhaps not so interested in games but are passionate about trying something interesting, and, in expanding the gaming population, we are considering how we can get our messages across to these consumers, create ties with them and develop an environment in which it is easy for them to participate."
Expect the focus to continue to be on non-gamers and somehow replicating the success of the Wii.
I know some people are taking snipets out to get excited about what they perceive as the new Nintendo. But it appears to me like they are going to amplify all the things that core gamers aren't excited about at Nintendo.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 04, 2014, 09:14:07 AM
Good God Lemon, I certainly hope Nintendo doesn't transition into yearly hardware models. I don't care if they're scalable. That takes away one of the major strengths of a non-PC gaming platform. And I'm not terribly convinced any company can begin to even fathom how to explain that to consumers, especially Nintendo who had trouble explaining Wii U is the successor to Wii. "Oh, it's just like iPads and iPhones." Well, a lot more people buy those than game consoles and handhelds. I have doubts the same structure can work in the gaming industry.
The Wii U was well supported from a software perspective.
I thoroughly enjoy Wii U and even I'm struggling to find a way to support this statement.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on February 04, 2014, 10:24:50 AM
I think the successor to current consoles is a Nintendo tablet. I think they are embracing that model. I think the 2DS was a first run tablet replacement for the 3ds. I think they'll drop the divider (one screen) and try to minimize size on future versions. They could either drop the L & R buttons or go Genesis 6 button style. If they make a tablet I fully expect them to embrace annual hardware.
People are telling them to make tablet games, and i think they will. It will just be on their hardware instead of on apple hardware. I think they see competing in the tablet market (where margins on hardware are high) as favorable to competing in the console industry. They think they will find a niche by releasing cheaper tablets than Apple with better core video game controls and releasing an extensive amount of backcatalog games on the tablet.
I don't want that and I could be 100% wrong, but I think they adore the Apple model and feel they are niche in video games.
@Adrock I know you grabbed my quote and not Miyamoto's , I just want to be clear that I don't believe they have enough 1st party games, that's just my interpretation of their comments.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Oblivion on February 04, 2014, 10:29:54 AM
The 2DS is not a tablet replacement. It's a cheaper 3DS without the 3D made for children. The slate design is so it doesn't have the hinge problems.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on February 04, 2014, 10:45:30 AM
I know its not a tablet replacement. But the form factor is trending into tablet territory. I think their next iteration will basically be a lower spec iPad with lower resolution with dpad and buttons on the sides. To me that's not a huge jump from the 2ds which utilizes one screen (divided by plastic).
And I admitted I could be wrong. I'm just not encouraged by where Nintendo feels their failures are. I definately get the feeling they all think they are smarter than everybody and that makes them above listening to consumer criticism. The power question - their response, power isn't relative next question. The first party question - we adequately supplied enough titles. Whats the core of your business - getting people that don't play games to buy Nintendo hardware. Why wasnt Nintendoland =Wii Sports, multiplayer was equal but single player lacking. That's why it failed to generate the Wii Sports type interest. Whats your biggest failure as a company - e xplaing our product to our consumers.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 04, 2014, 12:19:55 PM
1. There will be more powerful hardware. Maybe not pushing the limits of technology over profitability, but more powerful is a given.
2. No comment on mergers and acquisitions. There are acquisitions that make sense and Nintendo will review them as they arise. Unfortunately, they weren't aggressive enough on recent opportunities to acquire some additional talent covering Nintendo weak spots.
3. More hardware options increases the likelyhood of a hybrid, not lessens it, and there is no way they are doing a yearly hardware upgrade. Apple sells 10 million iPhones a year @ $500-$700 each, subsidized, that is how the hardware is profitable. Nintendo will likely release a powerful enough console, and a portable handheld. After time and sales slow, they may release a budget console, and maybe they release a hybrid to satisfy a slightly different market, or maybe the budget console and the portable together equal the hybrid, and all of this is sustainable because they all run on NOS.
4. I think QoL could be very lucrative, and I can only assume Nintendo knows exactly what they plan on doing, I just hope it's something we all are equally excited about and willing and eager to use.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android”
Post by: Ian Sane on February 04, 2014, 12:31:10 PM
Nintendo's priority next time around should be to design something that third parties want to use. Something that is familiar to them and easy for them to use. Instead Iwata is talking about what's easy for NINTENDO to use. That Nintendo-centric approach is why they have jack **** for third party support. They've been going off this same framework since the Gamecube and carried it over to the Wii and Wii U. That was beneficial for Nintendo's internal development but has been poison for third party support. And now they're going to continue that approach for next time? You're failing miserably and everyone with a brain predicted this the second the Wii U was revealed and you decide "hey, I'm going to keep doing the same thing"? So what's next? Release a PS4 equivalent in 2020 that builds onto that Cube/Wii/Wii U architecture that Nintendo and effectively no one else will be familiar with at that point? Make sure to throw a goofy ass controller on it while you're at it and launch it with a 2D Mario game!
It sounds like Iwata's solution is to just do the same exact stuff that has put them in this mess in the first place. Nintendo is dead on consoles. If there is a Wii U successor it will fail if Iwata is still calling the shots because he has no idea why the Wii U is failing. The guy is a dumbass that got lucky with a fad.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 04, 2014, 12:48:17 PM
They've been going off this same framework since the [NES] and carried it over to [every single piece of hardware they've ever released].
Fixed that for you.
Unless you have evidence for your outlandish claims, please kindly stop spreading lies. Take care now, bye bye then.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 04, 2014, 12:52:38 PM
We don't know how Nintendo is handling their next console. For all we know they could be on the 3rd party campaign trail as we speak without worry because Sony & MS have just released their systems and it's too late for them to "steal" the new Nintendo "innovation".
I think the only thing kinda known at the moment, through *internet insiders*, is that Nintendo has already chosen its chip manufacturer. No need to jump to conclusions yet.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on February 04, 2014, 01:28:40 PM
They've been going off this same framework since the [NES] and carried it over to [every single piece of hardware they've ever released].
Fixed that for you.
Unless you have evidence for your outlandish claims, please kindly stop spreading lies. Take care now, bye bye then.
The Cube/Wii/Wii U share a common architecture. This is fact. That's how backwards compatibility has been achieved.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 04, 2014, 01:57:58 PM
Oh, you're talking about hardware architechure again, not Nintendo's longstanding philosophical framework of designing hardware for their own purposes first and foremost. Given that we really don't know what Nintendo is doing hardware-wise beyond a few vague comments, the latter seemed more pertinent. Seriously, like BlackNMild said, no need to jump to conclusions.
Title: Wii U take aways
Post by: shingi_70 on February 04, 2014, 02:41:54 PM
So the question is what advances in hardware and archtexture and os in the WiiU are great and should be absorbed?
The stuff I'd keep from the Wii U are the stuff that comes with being a service instead of a Insualr Platform.
NNID Miiverse Wii Fit Pad and Meter (Wii Fit should be turned into a service as well as a hardware platform.) Virtual Console
Now the Wii U architecture needs to be scrapped for X86. Microsoft and Sony understood that getting rid of backwards compatibility in sake of better hardware and using service like Now and rio to simulate BC. Nintendo is going to lose a lot for their next platform when neither Wii U or Wii Games are BC.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: ShyGuy on February 04, 2014, 02:56:55 PM
Let's be honest. Sony and Microsoft have stopped pushing their console hardware to be the cutting edge now as well.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 04, 2014, 04:14:34 PM
*Emulate, not simulate*
Game consoles haven't been cutting edge in a long time. The PS3 was only because of Blu-ray, the last cutting edge system before that was probably the PS2, but the Xbox basically ended all of that.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on February 04, 2014, 05:36:54 PM
1. There will be more powerful hardware. Maybe not pushing the limits of technology over profitability, but more powerful is a given.
Obviously I'm talking comparatively. We may get PS4 power in 10 years if Nintendo hasn't moved from video games at that time.
Quote
3. More hardware options increases the likelyhood of a hybrid, not lessens it, and there is no way they are doing a yearly hardware upgrade. Apple sells 10 million iPhones a year @ $500-$700 each, subsidized, that is how the hardware is profitable. Nintendo will likely release a powerful enough console, and a portable handheld. After time and sales slow, they may release a budget console, and maybe they release a hybrid to satisfy a slightly different market, or maybe the budget console and the portable together equal the hybrid, and all of this is sustainable because they all run on NOS.
Have you ever seen an iphone? IPhones sell between 100 and 200 subsidized. And I was referring mainly to the tablet. Apple has sold > 100 million iPad at 500 . It is rumored they have a margin of at least40% while Microsoft/Sony run negative console margins. I think Nintendo would like to be categorized as a tablet from a hardware margin perspective. Plus most people use the analogy of a tablet becoming more like a console as a reason to move toward the hybrid model.
I look at it this way. Scenario A. My friend says I bought this awesome 300 dollar handheld video game player. My first thought is I hope it was made of solid gold because that's a lot of money to pay for a handheld.
Scenario b. My friend tells me he bought an awesome tablet for 300. My first thought is tell me more about it. I've been looking st buying an ipad and 300 is <500.
I don't want that per se I just don't think Nintendo is going to do what I want as a consumer.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Stratos on February 04, 2014, 05:53:32 PM
I had a conversation about that with a co-worker last week. His kid was asking for a 3DS for her birthday and he was thinking they were very expensive and compared it to tablets for both purpose (entertainment) and pricing. In many people's minds handhelds are just kiddie tablets/phones but the cost-benefit ratio seems off in their eyes.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Shaymin on February 04, 2014, 06:07:15 PM
3. More hardware options increases the likelyhood of a hybrid, not lessens it, and there is no way they are doing a yearly hardware upgrade. Apple sells 10 million iPhones a year @ $500-$700 each, subsidized, that is how the hardware is profitable.
10 million in a year? Try 51 million in three months. And 26 million iPads, which although priced similarly if bought outright, usually aren't subsidized. Source (http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/27/5350106/apple-q1-2014-earnings).
I had a conversation about that with a co-worker last week. His kid was asking for a 3DS for her birthday and he was thinking they were very expensive and compared it to tablets for both purpose (entertainment) and pricing. In many people's minds handhelds are just kiddie tablets/phones but the cost-benefit ratio seems off in their eyes.
Probably because although the hardware is $130/$170/$200, a large portion of the software you would want for it is $40.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Stratos on February 04, 2014, 06:09:21 PM
Yes, that was another point he made. I did agree that those prices were hard to swallow but most of the games are much more expansive and entertaining than a 99 cent app ever would be. And you just buy older games at $20-30.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 04, 2014, 06:31:48 PM
I wasn't saying that Nintendo couldn't move into some more tablet like, as that could certainly be one of their future expanded hardware options. But they certainly wouldn't do the yearly hardware upgrade, because that is a constant moving target. they could refresh every 3 years without worry, but I highly doubt a yearly refresh of the hardware, outside of superficial stuff like color, and battery and type of screen, size maybe, but not anything like different CPU/GPU & new firmware with additional major features and more RAM to run it.
I would expect them to stay on a cycle like with the 3/DS. sell one thing for as long as it sells well, then put a refresh on the market to reinvigorate sales in 2-3 years, but not every year.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: RedBlue on February 04, 2014, 11:24:17 PM
:-[ over reaction on my part
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 04, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
They've been going off this same framework since the [NES] and carried it over to [every single piece of hardware they've ever released].
Fixed that for you.
Unless you have evidence for your outlandish claims, please kindly stop spreading lies. Take care now, bye bye then.
Before you call someone a lier make sure you comprehend what was written. Fucking off now, bye bye then.
It's spelled "liar." You are welcome!
Sorry my bad. I thought you quoted me, I said the same thing in the previous page.
Any way back on the subject. I think what Iwata was getting when he said he wanted to be like iOS and Android is that in those two ecosystems developers can target all devices with minor UI changes do to all devices having similar hardware and OS (the more important part of this are the APIs) . That being said I think they way Nintendo will try to get developers on board (independent) will the promise of your game will work on our home console and handheld with minimal work on your part.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 05, 2014, 02:30:34 AM
Nintendo should run it by them before they commit and see if any good tweaks to the idea are suggested, rather than after its complete and no changes are to be made. The main issue with 3rd parties, as stated by 3rd parties, is that Nintendo doesn't communicate with them like partners in this business, but more like they should be privileged for the opportunity to allow their software to exist on Nintendo's hardware.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 05, 2014, 07:56:48 AM
Exactly.
Nintendo's approach on that end is, quite frankly, total bullshit. I don't think third parties specifically want to support Nintendo (or Sony/Microsoft). Rather, they want their games on as many viable platforms, open to a wider audience; Nintendo's terms are just exceptionally insulting.
Improve the communication part and support is guaranteed to improve as well. Whatever Nintendo chooses to do with hardware and architecture and whatnot is ultimately workable for third parties so long as Nintendo gives them adequate notice. Still, if Nintendo were to actually bounce ideas off of third parties, among the many different suggestions, there's bound to be a few specific prevailing concerns. The point is to catch those early and make sure they're not issues.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 05, 2014, 08:11:34 AM
Nintendo is (or at least has been recently) the hardest platform holder to accommodate, as well as the least lucrative in terms of sales. They need to change at least one of those things.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on February 05, 2014, 12:16:56 PM
Nintendo is (or at least has been recently) the hardest platform holder to accommodate, as well as the least lucrative in terms of sales. They need to change at least one of those things.
Now how delusional can a company be to think for even a second that this would fly? "So I'll put you with your bullshit to make LESS money?" They're lucky that ANYONE supports them and it should surprise no one that third parties were almost looking for the first excuse to dump the Wii U. It's like the approach is to dump Nintendo ASAP but in a way that won't burn bridges with them in case they bounce back. So they can say "sorry Nintendo we released [the doomed-to-fail] Mass Effect 3 and it didn't sell [because we killed any sales potential it had by releasing the trilogy on the other consoles] so we can't support the Wii U anymore." and Nintendo can't say that they didn't support the console because they technically did.
Nintendo has to be just jam packed full of yes-men for things to have happened the way they have.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on February 05, 2014, 12:45:38 PM
I don't think its Yes-Men as much as Forest from the Trees.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: tendoboy1984 on February 07, 2014, 10:31:07 AM
I find it odd that you all claim Nintendo is hard to work with, yet they've done great with indie developers. Indies like Shinen, WayForward, Gaijin Games, and Renegade Kid (Jools Watsham) have praised Nintendo constantly.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 07, 2014, 10:50:19 AM
It's not a claim when major third party publishers are all essentially saying the same thing about Nintendo and their policies. Besides, they're not mutually exclusive. Nintendo can be (and is) bad with major third parties and can be (and is) great with independent developers. It really depends on the kind of support Nintendo offers. They're notoriously terrible at meeting even the basics of big third party needs while gradually improving their relationships with small indie developers (probably because indies and their games are far less demanding). On Wii, Nintendo was flat-out awful at indie support.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: tendoboy1984 on February 07, 2014, 11:01:55 AM
Well maybe Nintendo should utilize Dan Adleman as their third-party negotiator, since he has a great track record with indies.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Stratos on February 07, 2014, 03:01:38 PM
I would venture to guess that the reasons indies praise Nintendo is like how a child praises the parent/teacher/adult who gives them candy. Indies need all of the leverage they can get to spread their product out there. Large 3rd party companies have more leverage and therefore need more in return than Nintendo may be willing to give.
I know I would take a lot of crap from a large distributor if they were willing to help sell my product. So from the indie perspective the benefits outweigh the negative aspects.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 07, 2014, 03:36:09 PM
Did you guys hear about how the Toki Tori guys almost got Valve and Nintendo to let their games communicate like Portal 2 did on PS3? They said that ultimately there was too many requirements needed to get it in place for Toki Tori 2, but they aren't ruling out making it happen on a future title. I'll link to it later if I anyone is interested. I think it was on Kotaku (like Oct. last year), but I just read it. It was an interesting thing that almost happened because an excited indie wanted to push their product harder.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlkPaladin on February 21, 2014, 09:40:11 AM
Here is an opinion piece posted at forbes a few days ago.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on February 21, 2014, 09:50:12 AM
It definitely is something to consider for Microsoft.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2014, 10:44:52 AM
Would Nintendo give Microsoft stock like the article suggests? Kind of doubt that.
And while this would help Nintendo on a number of fronts, it actually strengthens Sony's position even more. PS4 is already outselling One two to one. With this, there would be one fewer competitor and Nintendo has to convince all the Xbox people to stay when they're struggling with some of their own fanbase. Maybe Nintendo is okay with that as long as the market is less crowded.
At the same time, if Microsoft sells their Xbox division, whichever company buys it is likely not investing in the same way as Microsoft. Consider the lengths Microsoft went just to get Xbox to be the brand it is. I could see Xbox just fading away under a different company at that point which would be a better time for Nintendo to go shopping anyway. I just don't see it happening unless Nintendo can attain these assets at firesale prices and even then, that's iffy because that's not really how Nintendo does things.
Should they? In my opinion, no. Too risky, too complicated. Some people would likely support this thinking Nintendo should abandon a sinking ship for a leaky one. I'm not sure how that helps them in the middle of a generation. Nintendo can fix their problems without shelling out for a division with its own set of problems. I'd rather see them stick it out with Wii U and come out smarter with a successor in like 2016. Not that that's a given; I just think it's better and safer than trying to dig their way out of a larger hole. Having to deal with two groups of disgruntled customers and struggling platforms is clearly worse than dealing with one.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on February 21, 2014, 12:30:49 PM
That's a surprisingly cool idea. The Wii U is dead. Nintendo needs a new console that is more up-to-date with the competition. The Xbox One is losing out to the PS4 but it already has hardware that third parties are familiar with and is comparable to the PS4. It's also already out so Nintendo isn't some latecomer with a mid-generation console. The existing third party development on the XB1 would presumably continue so that would be able to cover the release gap between Nintendo's last Wii U games and first XB1 games. Nintendo could also port some of their first party Wii U games that don't really need the Gamepad to pad things as well.
There are obvious problems though. I think Kinect needs to go. Nintendo would probably be completely befuddled by Xbox Live. Third parties might not stick around as Nintendo might suddenly implement new unfriendly policies or just plain scare them away as they assume that Nintendo will just **** everything up and kill any commercial value the XB1 has.
I don't think they can stick with the Wii U and trying to release their own console would probably be less likely to work out. I like the idea of Nintendo having someone else design their hardware while Nintendo just focuses on the games and this effectively does that already. If MS offers it I say Nintendo take it.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: MagicCow64 on February 21, 2014, 01:02:38 PM
If Microsoft divests themselves of the Xbox division, I seriously doubt they'd sell the entire thing to one party. Who would want it, especially with all of the missteps that have been taken with the console? Despite the Xbox mindshare, it's been famously unprofitable. Microsoft would basically have to start the R&D process for a follow-up console within the next year, so I see it as much more likely that they just opt out if the Xbone does as poorly in the next 12 months as it seems poised to. Then they could just sell off their studios and IPs to whoever is interested in four or five years, and probably keep the Kinect tech for whatever they might want to use it on in the future.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: shingi_70 on February 21, 2014, 01:15:37 PM
Not sure Microsoft will sell Xbox with Nadella, Gates, and Ballmer on its corner as well as being a services and devices company. As well Microsoft's media brands are entrenched in Xbox(Xbox magazines is coming soon) and Cortana is being used for Mictosofts version of Siri.
Either way even though Nintendo and Microsoft have my favorite IP not sure Nintendo could work with Microsoft which had studios in two other continents, as well they have a TV and film studio.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Khushrenada on February 21, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
It's just nice to hear news articles pointing out the problems and doom and gloom of another console instead of another Wii U article. Good enough for me.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2014, 05:09:28 PM
Nintendo needs a new console that is more up-to-date with the competition. The Xbox One is losing out to the PS4...
This is basically all anyone needs to know about the hardware debate. Does Nintendo really need better hardware? Having comparable hardware sure hasn't helped Microsoft. You can keep pushing the hardware card like it means everything, but ultimately, the problem with Wii U and Xbox One is that they're both collectively flawed on a fundamental level, at least more so than PS4. Sony just made the least flawed console; they're "winning" by "not losing." Wii U and One are both doing a bang up job making PS4 look golden by being so terrible. I just really don't see how this comes down to hardware specs again. Put better hardware in Wii U and it's still an incomplete console, even to this day.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on February 21, 2014, 05:18:18 PM
Well the PS4 is being easily shown as the strongest or at least easiest to get the muscle out of the 3.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on February 21, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Would Nintendo give Microsoft stock like the article suggests? Kind of doubt that.
More likely than not, if Nintendo were to buy the Xbox division, it would be a cash and stock deal.
The idea is actually pretty interesting. Nintendo could greatly benefit from having an excellent online infrastructure, comparable hardware, and franchises that appeal to the west. MS could benefit by becoming instantly more profitable, as the article stated.
I just don't think a mid-generation shakeup like that would be good for either party. Nintendo can't just start developing games for Xbox One, that would add at least a year or two to the development cycle, just to switch gears and familiarize themselves with the hardware. There's also no way Nintendo offers up a sweet enough deal to justify MS calling all of their marketing and R&D "sunk costs".
Then you kind of have some problems, if you make this deal for the next console generation. Sure, the Xbox One is a more powerful machine, but Nintendo will still be Nintendo. Unless MS gets enough stock to exert significant influence over the decision making, I don't see Nintendo benefitting from what the Xbox line has to offer. Like Ian said, Nintendo won't know what to do with Xbox Live. Is there a middle ground between Live and Miiverse? Will Nintendo push the hardware significantly far enough past the XB1 for match a PS4? Will that even matter if 3rd parties don't want to work with Nintendo or Nintendo forces another gimmick on its console.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android”
Post by: Ian Sane on February 21, 2014, 07:04:26 PM
Nintendo needs a new console that is more up-to-date with the competition. The Xbox One is losing out to the PS4...
This is basically all anyone needs to know about the hardware debate. Does Nintendo really need better hardware? Having comparable hardware sure hasn't helped Microsoft. You can keep pushing the hardware card like it means everything, but ultimately, the problem with Wii U and Xbox One is that they're both collectively flawed on a fundamental level, at least more so than PS4. Sony just made the least flawed console; they're "winning" by "not losing." Wii U and One are both doing a bang up job making PS4 look golden by being so terrible. I just really don't see how this comes down to hardware specs again. Put better hardware in Wii U and it's still an incomplete console, even to this day.
The XB1 is merely not winning and someone has to be in second place. The third parties support the XB1 because it has the sort of hardware they're comfortable using. The PS3 didn't win last gen but despite any setbacks constantly had great third party support, support Nintendo would kill for to get right now, because the hardware was compatible for multi-platform development. The XB1 can be "saved" (and really it is too early to write it off, fuckin' Titanfall hasn't even been released yet) because it has third party support while the Wii U cannot.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: MagicCow64 on February 21, 2014, 07:04:48 PM
Not sure Microsoft will sell Xbox with Nadella, Gates, and Ballmer on its corner as well as being a services and devices company. As well Microsoft's media brands are entrenched in Xbox(Xbox magazines is coming soon) and Cortana is being used for Mictosofts version of Siri.
Nadella is talking the device talk, but there have been a lot of high-profile articles about investor unrest. Ballmer didn't exactly leave on a grace note. If we see 12 months of 150K average Xbone sales, I think Microsoft could quite ruthlessly cut the throat of the division. They're crazy if they think their Xbox branded media suite is going to take off in this day and age.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Mop it up on February 21, 2014, 08:00:45 PM
Nintendo's hardware and software go hand-in-hand. I think they would have a lot of trouble making games for hardware that they didn't develop themselves.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2014, 08:03:00 PM
The third parties support the XB1 because it has the sort of hardware they're comfortable using.
Sure, that's exactly right and it has nothing to do with the ridiculous payouts for content Microsoft has shelled out over the years and continues to.
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The XB1 can be "saved" (and really it is too early to write it off, fuckin' Titanfall hasn't even been released yet) because it has third party support while the Wii U cannot.
Okie dokie. So you can write off Wii U in every thread when its highest profile game within a year after launch was a remake of a decade old game as well as before Mario Kart 8 then at the same time claim that it's too early to write off Xbox One because of Titanfall.
That's rather unfair to me. I agree that it's too early to write off Xbox One though Microsoft has collectively fumbled so much of their console thus far (much like Nintendo). What hurts Titanfall's impact as an Xbox One title is that it's also available on two other platforms, particularly the one Microsoft is trying to replace.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Mop it up on February 21, 2014, 08:24:33 PM
Wait, wait, are you saying Titanfall is on the Xbox 360? I knew it was on the PC but I didn't think they were putting it on the 360 too. That'd be like if Nintendo had released games like Super Mario 3D World on the Wii.
...Or heck, it's kinda like how NSMB2 came out on the 3DS right before the Wii U came out with NSMBU. Although those aren't the same game, I'm sure that hurt things.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on February 21, 2014, 09:35:00 PM
It oversaturated the 2D Mario market.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2014, 10:32:46 PM
Wait, wait, are you saying Titanfall is on the Xbox 360? I knew it was on the PC but I didn't think they were putting it on the 360 too. That'd be like if Nintendo had released games like Super Mario 3D World on the Wii.
I was surprised Titanfall was on 360 as well. I originally thought it was only on One and PC until about a week ago. The 360 version comes out two weeks later, but still. Microsoft probably paid a lot of money to keep the game off Sony machines. They probably should have paid more to keep the game off 360 as well. It would have been a nice console exclusive.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on February 23, 2014, 07:51:18 AM
Nintendo taking over the xbox division only works if they are willing to change their third party policies going forward. Although it would be a nice way to get that immediate third party bump.
I thought these couple of quotes were interesting and somewhat comparable to Nintendo's situation:
Steve Jobs - "Innovation has nothing to do with how many R&D dollars you have. When Apple came up with the Mac, IBM was spending at least 100 times more on R&D. It's not about money. It's about the people you have, how you're led, and how much you get it."-- Fortune, Nov. 9, 1998
I think this is why Nintendo should be able to compete with Sony/Microsoft. People always say Nintendo is innovative, then why doesn't the market see it?
Tim Cook (Apple COO at the time, Goldman Sach's Q&A -"We say no to good ideas every day. We say no to great ideas in order to keep the amount of things we focus on very small in number, so that we can put enormous energy behind the ones we do choose, so that we can deliver the best products in the world. In fact, the table that each of you are sitting at today, you could probably put every product on it that Apple makes, and yet Apple’s revenue last year was over $40 billion. I think the only other company that could say that is an oil company."
That's why I'm not excited about QoL platform. It seems like a lack of focus from Nintendo and their focus should be on improving what they've done best and why we are all fans, making interactive gaming experiences better.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on February 24, 2014, 07:31:09 PM
If I called the Wii U a flop at this time last year everyone would jump on me for not giving it time to prove itself. The same "courtesy" applies to the Xbox One. The Wii U in comparison has been out for over a year, has had two Christmas seasons and had an infamous "holy **** we're fucked" sales projection update from Nintendo. The Wii U is toast. The Xbox One might be or might not be and really we can't say until after it also has had two Christmas seasons under its belt.
The Nintendo Xbox ain't going to happen anyway. But upon the concept being suggested I immediately figured that is their best chance to salvage this gen. I don't see holding on with the Wii U as a realistic option and getting a successor out to replace it is probably not feasible in the timeframe it needs to happen (basically it needs to happen THIS YEAR and that's not happening). Acquiring the Xbox brand is a real outside-the-box idea that effectively lets them replace the Wii U ASAP.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Stratos on February 24, 2014, 07:46:31 PM
Microsoft actually first offered to buy Nintendo and make them their entire software division instead of creating the X-Box brand. But Nintendo did not want to be under a non-Japanese company and refused.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 24, 2014, 07:56:25 PM
Acquiring the Xbox brand is a real outside-the-box idea that effectively lets them replace the Wii U ASAP.
And have absolutely no first-party software available nor any real experience developing for it. Wow, that's brilliant. Nintendo, hire this man immediately.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 24, 2014, 08:01:29 PM
Microsoft actually first offered to buy Nintendo and make them their entire software division instead of creating the X-Box brand. But Nintendo did not want to be under a non-Japanese company and refused.
Yeah, but would MS now decide to sell Nintendo the entire Xbox division and let that be Nintendo's thing to do with what they please?
It would be nice for them to get Rare back, even if just for the IP. I'm sure alot of the displaced talent would find their way back home should Nintendo make the offer.
Conker, Perfect Dark, Viva Pinata, Banjo Kazooie & Killer Instinct would all be very welcome to the Nintendo library once again. I don't see it happening, but without putting any real thought into it, it sounds like a good idea.
Acquiring the Xbox brand is a real outside-the-box idea that effectively lets them replace the Wii U ASAP.
And have absolutely no first-party software available nor any real experience developing for it. Wow, that's brilliant. Nintendo, hire this man immediately.
but you're putting thought behind it. not fair.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 24, 2014, 08:18:45 PM
If Nintendo were to buy the Xbox division, Xbox One wouldn't be the point of it. Like you said, they'd get Rare back. Also, they'd get Halo, Project Gotham, Fable, Gears of War etc. They would also get Xbox Live, that infrastructure, and a **** ton of patents. That's where the value lies. Anyone who thinks, "They can just replace Wii U," isn't thinking outside the box. Nintendo would be taking all those assets for the purpose of applying it to future hardware.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on February 25, 2014, 01:30:23 PM
If Nintendo were to buy the Xbox division, Xbox One wouldn't be the point of it. Like you said, they'd get Rare back. Also, they'd get Halo, Project Gotham, Fable, Gears of War etc. They would also get Xbox Live, that infrastructure, and a **** ton of patents. That's where the value lies. Anyone who thinks, "They can just replace Wii U," isn't thinking outside the box. Nintendo would be taking all those assets for the purpose of applying it to future hardware.
And we have a winner!
There some good stuff under it and Nintendo would just be running 2 consoles till they could merge them.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 25, 2014, 02:41:22 PM
Imagine all the excuses 3rd parties would suddenly have as to why they can only afford to support the PS4. It would be a media circus with all the crazy stunts and tricks being pulled.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on February 25, 2014, 06:27:41 PM
At that point, Nintendo wouldn't need 3rd parties. If they could work out an exclusive deal with Sega, they'd be set.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on February 25, 2014, 07:33:05 PM
Acquiring the Xbox brand is a real outside-the-box idea that effectively lets them replace the Wii U ASAP.
And have absolutely no first-party software available nor any real experience developing for it. Wow, that's brilliant. Nintendo, hire this man immediately.
But the Xbox One already has games out for it and games in the pipeline from third parties and first party games from Microsoft's current teams that would presumably come with the deal. So there's no Mario for a little while? Who gives a ****? It isn't like his presence has created any worthwhile demand for the Wii U. And while Nintendo has no experience with the hardware they also have no experience with the sort of hardware architecture that third parties want to use. If they ever want to attract any third party support then at some point Nintendo has to get out of their little bubble and learn something beyond the basic Gamecube architecture they're been using. Nintendo was dumbstruck by HD development after talking trash about everyone else struggling with it during the Wii years. They have to change and have to adapt anyway. Any new console they themselves would release that would have a shot in hell of amounting to anything would be such a drastic overhaul from what they've been doing with the Wii brand that there would be a huge learning curve involved. Whether it is their own custom hardware or someone else's really makes no difference.
Really the whole advantage is that the pre-existence of Xbox One games on the shelf and in development gives Nintendo the breathing room to get themselves in shape. They don't HAVE to carry the whole console on their backs. That's the point. They can buy themselves time, which is not a feasible option if they stick with the Wii U or try to introduce their own successor.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 25, 2014, 08:47:43 PM
But the Xbox One already has games out for it and games in the pipeline from third parties and first party games from Microsoft's current teams that would presumably come with the deal.
And it's getting trounced by PS4. Wii U can and is getting trounced by PS4 without Nintendo spending billions to acquire another company's product and losing billions dropping their own. See, you're missing the point entirely. Buying the Xbox division just so they can drop Wii U doesn't make sense.
Quote
So there's no Mario for a little while? Who gives a ****?
Millions of Nintendo fans. We all realize you have this weird, jilted lover mentality with an axe to grind regarding Nintendo, but you really, REALLY need to stop acting like you represent more than a very small minority of internet whiners.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on February 25, 2014, 09:44:21 PM
Dropping the Wii U would only make sense if Nintendo could keep the Xbox One self sustained long enough to transition enough of their titles to it. Maybe in like a two year window (which makes the idea less than plausible). Then, Nintendo could drop the price on the XB1 and yet the market with 2 or 3 of their own IPs. That would probably be a huge boost to the console sales.
But to Ian's point, another positive in all this would be Nintendo not having to make so many Mario games. Didn't we get two New Super Mario Bros titles in the same year? While I loved both of those games, some space between them would've been great.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 26, 2014, 08:42:36 AM
Taking Microsoft out of the equation means taking away the benefits of dealing with Microsoft, a company willing to throw money at problems until they go away for a while. Who knows if third parties stick around after nearly-completed games release and notably, after contracts signed with Microsoft are fulfilled? In the extremely unlikely scenario that Nintendo could keep Xbox One alive under those conditions long enough for their first party titles to make the transition, it'd be pretty close to when they'd be launching a successor to Wii U anyway (one which probably wouldn't be a significant leap in power over Xbox One either).
Ian keeps dipping back into the specs-well, as if Xbox One's better hardware is some magical cure-all. It isn't. Again, Nintendo wouldn't buy the Xbox division for Xbox One. The entire point would be acquiring assets. That helps in many ways except Xbox under Nintendo is still subject to Nintendo's policies and they can change those with or without a major acquisition. Their Achilles' Heel has always been their resistance to change.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Oblivion on February 26, 2014, 11:45:38 AM
Ian, this is another moment that I'm glad that Nintendo "fan" like yourself aren't in charge of the company. As much **** as you give them for their mistakes, I can guarantee that if you were the CEO of Nintendo that ship would have crashed a long time ago.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on February 26, 2014, 11:57:52 AM
Ian, this is another moment that I'm glad that Nintendo "fan" like yourself aren't in charge of the company. As much **** as you give them for their mistakes, I can guarantee that if you were the CEO of Nintendo that ship would have crashed a long time ago.
I wouldn't have released the Wii U so I'm smarter than Iwata in one aspect. Frankly if in some dream world I worked for Nintendo I would just like to have veto power so that when Nintendo wants to do something obviously stupid I can just say "no you can't do that". So I don't suggest ideas as much as just filter Nintendo's good ideas from their bad. I think a lot of people on this forum could do that well.
I just think the Wii U is a dead product with no chance to bounce back and Nintendo needs a more up-to-date console ASAP to have any chance of surviving in the console market. If they have the opportunity to acquire one that already is on the market then they save themselves time they don't have.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Oblivion on February 26, 2014, 12:00:51 PM
Nah dude, considering earlier you said Nintendo should buy the Xbox brand, I really don't think you know what you're talking about. Just because you wouldn't release the Wii U doesn't make you smarter than them.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on February 26, 2014, 07:53:54 PM
Specs matter so long as 3rd parties cite them as a reason to not develop for Nintendo consoles. You can't just write them off as unimportant.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Adrock on February 26, 2014, 08:41:36 PM
Specs matter so long as 3rd parties cite them as a reason to not develop for Nintendo consoles. You can't just write them off as unimportant.
Is this addressed to me? I never said specs were unimportant nor have I ever written them off. I merely disagree with Ian's repeated insistence that better specs would suddenly fix so much of Nintendo's woes, cure cancer, and end world hunger. Seriously, look through his post history to see how many times he brings it up. Turn it into a drinking game, try get to page five before everyone dies of alcohol poisoning.
Specs absolutely matter to the people making the games. I've said this before. However, and more importantly, the best specs in the world won't mean **** if Nintendo's policies still suck. That's where it starts. I think third parties would be far more amenable to working on lower spec hardware if Nintendo was more collaborative and friendly. Ideally, Nintendo would improve their policies and include better specs. Unfortunately, that's almost never what's discussed here. It's always specs first and foremost.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Nemo on February 27, 2014, 12:43:16 AM
The next system would be the N-Box. :B :B :B
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on February 27, 2014, 01:38:36 PM
Specs matter so long as 3rd parties cite them as a reason to not develop for Nintendo consoles. You can't just write them off as unimportant.
Is this addressed to me? I never said specs were unimportant nor have I ever written them off. I merely disagree with Ian's repeated insistence that better specs would suddenly fix so much of Nintendo's woes, cure cancer, and end world hunger. Seriously, look through his post history to see how many times he brings it up. Turn it into a drinking game, try get to page five before everyone dies of alcohol poisoning.
Specs absolutely matter to the people making the games. I've said this before. However, and more importantly, the best specs in the world won't mean **** if Nintendo's policies still suck. That's where it starts. I think third parties would be far more amenable to working on lower spec hardware if Nintendo was more collaborative and friendly. Ideally, Nintendo would improve their policies and include better specs. Unfortunately, that's almost never what's discussed here. It's always specs first and foremost.
It was. The comment just seemed dismissive of any importance towards specs as a whole.
I do see your point, however.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 27, 2014, 11:07:32 PM
The only way the Xbox One purchase makes any sense is IF Nintendo could emulate the Wii U on the Xbox One, or basically figure a way to move and play Wii U games on the system. If that was possible. Nintendo could release the Xbox One as a Wii U and Xbox system. All the previous Nintendo games could play on it. All the Xbox One games could play on it. Then Nintendo could see about slowly merging the systems together. But at first they would have to be separate entities. Basically like Wii mode one the Wii U. But with Xbox One have Xbox Mode and Wii U mode.
I think the one thing that would be cool is if Nintendo figured out a way to use Xbox Kinnect and the Wii sensor bar together…or make a combined unit with the patients it would own, it would really be able to push true movement based games. And that could bring some cool stuff in the future…but honestly that would be talking about a future console further into the future.
Though, I would support all this if we could get a new system called the NU Box.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Stratos on February 28, 2014, 01:32:52 PM
The Nintendo U-Box One?
Weird.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: tendoboy1984 on March 04, 2014, 03:32:03 PM
Whoa whoa whoa... What's with all this talk about Nintendo buying the Xbox brand? Microsoft would never let that happen, and Nintendo has no interest in "Western" games.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 04, 2014, 08:42:21 PM
Microsoft is shopping the Xbox division, and Nintendo has both the money to buy it and the established position in the industry to want it. I don't think they'll actually go through with it, but them being the buyer makes a lot more sense than a lot of companies.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 04, 2014, 09:40:21 PM
It would be pretty funny if Nintendo did but it, setting how MS made an offer in Nintendo 12 or so years ago.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: shingi_70 on March 04, 2014, 11:13:41 PM
Microsoft is shopping the Xbox division, and Nintendo has both the money to buy it and the established position in the industry to want it. I don't think they'll actually go through with it, but them being the buyer makes a lot more sense than a lot of companies.
Where was it said that Microsoft is hoping Xbox?
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Louieturkey on March 06, 2014, 06:21:38 PM
Microsoft is shopping the Xbox division, and Nintendo has both the money to buy it and the established position in the industry to want it. I don't think they'll actually go through with it, but them being the buyer makes a lot more sense than a lot of companies.
Where was it said that Microsoft is hoping Xbox?
Everywhere and nowhere.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 06, 2014, 06:29:38 PM
It's the worst kept secret in the gaming industry that Microsoft is considering it. Hell, the guy who just took over the division has publicly argued that they should.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 10, 2014, 11:27:50 PM
Actually, I wonder if it is possible for Nintendo to just dump its OS onto the Xbox One and tweak it to work? I always thought using something like the Kinnect with the Wiimote would allow for a create motion based controller.
I actually think Nintendo made a mistake not using the Wii U as a system to perfect motion controls.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2014, 11:30:17 AM
The only way for them to perfect motion controls is to have a camera track the wiimotes, and that means they would need a wiimote 2.0. Merge the idea of the wiimote with the PS Move. Have Bidirectional tracking. I'm sure there were too many obstacles to go that route thanks to Sony.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on March 11, 2014, 11:41:30 AM
The only way for them to perfect motion controls is to have a camera track the wiimotes, and that means they would need a wiimote 2.0. Merge the idea of the wiimote with the PS Move. Have Bidirectional tracking. I'm sure there were too many obstacles to go that route thanks to Sony.
Also the PS Move is relative junk.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2014, 03:17:12 PM
The only way for them to perfect motion controls is to have a camera track the wiimotes, and that means they would need a wiimote 2.0. Merge the idea of the wiimote with the PS Move. Have Bidirectional tracking. I'm sure there were too many obstacles to go that route thanks to Sony.
Also the PS Move is relative junk.
that's mostly because they couldn't use remote tracking the sensor for pin point accuracy when aiming. they had to rely on gyroscopic aiming thanks to Nintendo . ;) I only used Move once or twice on demo units, but it seemed really floaty when it came to pointing, which made aiming at something specific a little more difficult.
I also drew up diagrams for this combined concept Wiimote 2.0 a long while ago if you all remember that. But unless NIntendo finds some patent loophole, or Sony & Nintendo decide to cross-license each other, it's not likely to ever happen, and thats a shame, because it could have been really cool once done properly.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 11, 2014, 03:36:28 PM
It's pretty impressive that Sony, in copying the Wii remote, managed to take the best-implemented and most-consistently-effective part of it and make it way, way worse.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
well, they did have to reverse engineer it and make it work almost opposite using the camera tech they had been developing since PS1.
If only we could combine the 2, and then bring in the Occulus Rift... OMG, that would be a First Person Gaming Revolution. That is the Tri-Force we need.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on March 11, 2014, 04:54:04 PM
There were times when Move worked very well. Then it will mess up its calibration.
Title: Re: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 12, 2014, 09:35:42 PM
I never tried PS move, but I felt that with Wii the motion controls were great at first but after a while the magic wore off. I had high hopes for that but in the end they released too many party games and mini game collections to really stay hyped for too long. I am seriously considering a Wii U but I understand the motion controls are no longer a major part of that which I think is part of why it is selling so poorly, nobody knows what to make of it. Sure the people who complain about the waggle were excited for a more "traditional" controller but what about the people who bought into the Wii because of motion controls? It's like Nintendo has this amazing industry changing idea and instead of shaking things up all it does is turns the world on it's side and turns everyone into bitter enemies.
I would like to see what Nintendo could do with improved motion controls and virtual reality headsets like everyone is talking about, that would be great. Maybe scrap the Wii remote and build an improved motion scheme into a tiny glove you wear no not a power glove but something that just gives you full motion tracking like with Wii but is in your finger tips and if you want to hold a virtual controller no big deal that can be programmed in. why can't they do something like that make everybody happy?
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2014, 02:41:15 PM
Redefining the definition of video games consoles will take approximately 2 year.... http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html
New hardware in 2016 is what it sounds like to me.
Quote
Q: The company has set multiple measures for its mid-term future, but I think that sometimes it is necessary to make a big investment while maintaining a sound revenue-expenses balance. From this perspective, I would like to know whether you have set any priorities.
Iwata: While I believe that increasing the long-term corporate value of the company is naturally our most important task, as it is impossible to make that our sole priority without regard to the short-term revenue-expenses balance on an annual basis, I think it is necessary to make investments while maintaining a certain balance of revenue and expenses. However, in terms of when we will be able to regain Nintendo-like profits, I would ask you to give us a bit more time and see how we do in the following two years.
As for our focus, we are already going to utilize, for example, our character IP from this fiscal year in ways that I described in my presentation today, so it is perhaps easier to see relatively early on the actual content of this new business endeavor and understand more clearly what we are going to do with it. Also, regarding what I mentioned at the Corporate Management Policy Briefing in January about our efforts to go into a new business area, namely our platform business that seeks to enrich people’s QOL (Quality of Life) in enjoyable ways, I would like to talk more specifically about the kind of business we have in mind within this year, and the current time frame we are working on puts the actual deployment of the initiative in the next fiscal year, with contributions to our profitability to follow in the following fiscal year. Moreover, I feel that we will be able to further stimulate our platform business by taking advantage of smart devices, and I think that we will be able to provide detailed information on this as well as some concrete results between the current and the next fiscal years. Also, the idea I mentioned about redefining the definition of video game platforms will also require approximately two years. This is how we would like to talk more about our mid-term measures and lead them to actual results. However, we will not be able to create a good environment for the company unless projects are undertaken simultaneously, so this is the kind of timeframe that we have in mind.
So who who wants to take those odds against the "Hybrid" handheld/console and/or the entertainment smart companion box console and it's companion handheld?.
Mixed with the original OP quote, sounds like Nintendo will finally produce an all encompassing OS that will span hardware, universal accts, VC carries over, on the go or up on the TV, doesn't matter. Get that Andriod/iOS-like functionality going forward. everything is forward/backward compatible, no more software shortages. etc etc.
Too bad Nintendo isn't more forward thinking and looking beyong their little bubble, otherwise they may have picked up on this early in the Wii's life cycle and implemented it with the Wii U (or even with the Wii had they not had that ill-thought out ios setup).
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on May 13, 2014, 03:51:56 PM
New hardware in 2016 would be a pretty reasonable timeframe for a Wii U replacement. I still would replace it today if I had a half-decent launch lineup ready to go but 2016 might be the earliest you could pull that off.
"Redefining the definition of video game platforms" isn't really what I'm interested in though. I guess I just don't trust Nintendo to do such a thing in a way I would actually like. What I really want is a glorified PS4 with Nintendo games on it, preferrably with Nintendo also making the hardware because they make durable stuff. Like Nintendo is just thinking too damn hard on this stuff. You increase the specs each generation and that makes a bigger sandbox to play in so you can make games you couldn't before. It's simple. If you don't think that can inspire new gameplay ideas it just means you don't have any new ideas.
I do however like the idea of your handheld and your console being the same thing. Why can't I plug my 3DS into a TV? It seems arbitrary that I can't. You look at these touchscreens and Wiimotes and the whole thing seems to be an excuse to make things proprietary. If you had a console that came with a dualshock style controller, a keyboard and a mouse you could port like 90% of all game ever made to it. Obviously stuff like DDR or Duck Hunt needs a peripheral but the standardized stuff that goofs it all up is the Iwata era Nintendo systems.
So when I think of something like a handheld-console hybrid or a gaming OS stuff like the Wii and DS mess all that up. I can't imagine the company that saw need to shoehorn in control gimmicks as the company to offer something like that because it needs things to be very standardized and universal. More likely "redefining" in Nintendo's world means a new gimmick.
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2014, 04:28:57 PM
If you had a console that came with a dualshock style controller, a keyboard and a mouse you could port like 90% of all game ever made to it. Obviously stuff like DDR or Duck Hunt needs a peripheral but the standardized stuff that goofs it all up is the Iwata era Nintendo systems.
I think that if they standardized a detachable controller that doubles and the wiimote/nunchuck combo, a keyboard and mouse, then allowed things like the balance board, light gun, and even the gamepad/handhled to be a controller, there is practically no game that the system couldn't handle. Throw in a some Move tracking and a motion camera, and I think we have 99% of everything covered.
Quote
So when I think of something like a handheld-console hybrid or a gaming OS stuff like the Wii and DS mess all that up. I can't imagine the company that saw need to shoehorn in control gimmicks as the company to offer something like that because it needs things to be very standardized and universal. More likely "redefining" in Nintendo's world means a new gimmick.
I think your skepticism is justified, but remember what else Iwata recently said: "Next OS to absorb Wii U architecture and be more like iOS & Android” Iwata said (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=43571.msg823839#msg823839)
Quote
In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.
Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.
So a unified OS and development platform is what they are aiming for. Should they do this, and I hope they work with someone like Google to get this done, then that alone would address quite a few of the complaints we have about Nintendo and their output. No longer will they need to negotiate licensing for handheld separately from console, and then tweak each version independently. No longer will they need to develop separately for handheld and console, they can make one game that scales to the strengths of the platform like a PC, for big screen play of portable on the go. Universal accounts should be a given, which would mean VC bought once and played on all platforms, from now till death do you part.
So even though your skepticism is justified, Iwata has addressed this before, so I legitimately hope he's not just playing lip service and has actually opened his eyes to see the actual problem and recognized the the need actual solutions, not gimmicky distractions hoping we forgot or never really cared all that much to begin with.
I'm calling myself cautiously optimistic even if I am setting myself up for disappointment. I just like it when Nintendo gives me something to hope for... which has been lacking for a long while now.
Title: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2014, 09:37:32 PM
Now Iwata thinks a single game could resuccitate the Wii U before it the console doctors call its time of death http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/217593/Nintendos_Iwata_A_single_title_could_save_the_Wii_U (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/217593/Nintendos_Iwata_A_single_title_could_save_the_Wii_U.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GamasutraNews+%28Gamasutra+News%29)
Quote
"In order to recreate momentum and sell 5 million or 10 million units of hardware annually, there are indeed challenges that we must overcome," he said. "The fate of a video game system is often influenced greatly by the introduction of a single title."
For example, he says, many critics said that the original Game Boy was done for before Pokemon came along and single-handedly changed the playing field.
"We do not believe that this year's estimate of 3.6 million units of Wii U hardware will be the peak of its lifecycle," Iwata added, "and we would like to work hard to make sure that we give sufficient momentum to the system so that we can expect good results in and after the next fiscal year, too."
and before anyone says it, I'm not implying that Pokemon is coming to Wii U.... even if it should.
Iwata also stated that they will be showing games in various stages of development at E3 this year, which reverses a trend of only showing things coming out in the 6 coming months that Nintendo adopted some 4-6 or so years ago. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140508qa/index.html (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140508qa/index.html)
Quote
As to whether our philosophy has changed or not, the basic idea that consumers reluctantly purchase hardware only because they want to play with appealing software remains unchanged. I only mentioned the Wii U software “Mario Kart 8” and “Super Smash Bros. for Wii U” today, but of course, we are going to talk about other Wii U titles at E3 (Electronic Entertainment Expo) in Los Angeles in June. Also, our internal software development teams directed by Shigeru Miyamoto (Senior Managing Director and General Manager of Entertainment Analysis & Development Division) are committed to developing several titles that focus on offering unique experiences only made possible with the Wii U GamePad in order for a large number of people to understand the Wii U GamePad’s significance. The titles we are preparing to show you at E3 vary from being nearly complete to still in the early phases of development but with the core of its appeal noticeable. Therefore, our strategy of focusing on software has not changed.
It's about time they reversed this too, as we like to know whats coming down the pipeline, and it also helps Nintendo gauge what to focus on and what to fix/drop.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Soren on May 13, 2014, 11:16:10 PM
and before anyone says it, I'm not implying that Pokemon is coming to Wii U.... even if it should.
I hear Monolith Soft might have some free time on their hands after this year...
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: Stogi on May 14, 2014, 12:26:56 AM
What they really need to do is make a compelling argument why the WiiTablet is any better than a standard controller. As it stands right now, the only reason to own one is to not use your TV. Which is cool, but hardly a stand out feature.
It needs something like Zombi U but even more "Oh wow, what?" It's come to the point where I don't think good ideas can even be used. We've come up with several ourselves and none of them have even been hinted at.
Obviously Pokemon would fit the bill. But if it's something else, it really has to be spectacular. There is no doubt in my mind that someday I will own a Wii U. There are several games that I want to play. But as of right now, there isn't really anything that makes me want to go out and buy it today. I'd rather wait and pick one up online for cheap along with several of the games (like Pikmin and World). So Nintendo? What do you have for me? How can you get a long time fan excited?
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 14, 2014, 12:45:22 AM
I think what we are seeing is Nintendo experimenting more and more. I think Nintendo made a miscalculation with the Wii U. They expected it to sell better. But at the same time, I think the Wii U was a stepping block towards their next big thing.
A hybrid is coming. Nintendo's rhetoric isn't even hiding this fact. Nintendo wants a unified OS. Nintendo probably wants to go completely digital as well. And you see Nintendo moving ever so closer to this goal. The question is will Nintendo actually do this properly, or will they stumble like they always seem to stumble. I don't know.
Though, I also do not see this hybrid system as a single system. Instead, I believe it be 2 different systems...that can play the same games. Although the games may be scalable to some degree. I am curious to see what happens...and in 2 years, I might be willing to get back into the gaming world if Nintendo does something amazing. I have really been wanting a new handheld system.
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: Caterkiller on May 14, 2014, 12:54:04 AM
An established franchise isn't going to turn things around. Well Mario Kart is like the one franchise that could give a significant boost but it will take a new Nintendogs and Brain Age to get the Wii U selling like mad. I don't mean it has to be a casual type of affair either. Just something new, that is done in a way that just makes people go gaga over it. Easier said than done and obviously they aren't just banking on one game they are making, I'm sure they are making a bunch of different games with "new" experiences and hoping at least one takes off.
I just want Metroid Blast from Nintendoland as a new IP made with all the modern day bells and whistles for 3rd person shooters. Give it super fun and competitive multiplayer and that would make me super happy.
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 14, 2014, 02:14:52 AM
There are several established franchises that can help, but a single one...probably not. Nintendo releasing Smash and Kart the same year is a start. But I feel they need yet another middle game in that for fun multiplayer...something truly unique and different like Battalion Wars online. If Nintendo could get 4 compelling online exclusive games out this year, I think it would be able to have a come back. Specially, with the exclusives it has already that are interesting and fun. They may never get 3rd party support, but if you give players 4 games a year for the system to play people could buy it and support it. Specially if they were top of the line exclusive games.
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on May 14, 2014, 09:47:02 AM
IF Nintendo is really planning on The Hybrid coming out in 2016 then I would consider all the WiiU software there making being eyed for fodder for it. They do there job right and it's just a matter of offering every game that licensing will allow them too on The Hybrid day one from the WiiU at about a $20-$30 price.
With the low sells of the WiiU there will be a lot of New to You deals there.
Title: Re: "Redefining the video game platform will take approximately 2 years” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on May 14, 2014, 12:24:12 PM
The proper full 3D Pokemon RPG we've all wanted since 1998 that absolutely should have been made for the Gamecube is the one title I can think of that could turn the Wii U around singlehandedly. That's the only established IP that I figure can do it.
I'm glad Nintendo is going back to showing titles that are further off in the pipeline. Though the cynic in me is coming to the conclusion that Nintendo is only doing that because the Wii U lineup is so damn thin that they'll show anything they can to make it look more substancial.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2014, 01:12:38 PM
I'm glad Nintendo is going back to showing titles that are further off in the pipeline. Though the cynic in me is coming to the conclusion that Nintendo is only doing that because the Wii U lineup is so damn thin that they'll show anything they can to make it look more substancial.
But whatever it takes to finally see beyond the next 6 months again. Nintendo always so paranoid that someone will steal a game idea before they can release it, well, who care, it's not always about who released it first, but ultimately who did it best.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Khushrenada on May 14, 2014, 02:52:29 PM
Iwata's right and it's something a lot of people have stated before. Pokemon gave the GB a huge boost and has basically been the main selling force for all Nintendo handhelds from that point. Super Mario 64 was the system seller for Nintendo 64. Final Fantasy 7 was the game that got the PS1 rolling on to win. Halo was Xbox's killer app and system seller. Nintendogs was the game that finally sold the concept of the DS and caused it's sales to surge so that it did become a money printer. Wii Sports was the game that sold the Wii concept with people buying the system for that game.
Not surprisingly, most of the games I mentioned were brand new IP's or else a big change in an established IP. Established IP's are great for keeping the consumer base happy and providing more of an experience customers want but they often fail to reach the heights and mania they may have first had on subsequent releases. I hope that Nintendo has come up with something special for the Wii U or thinks they might have. Why make the gamepad if you've got no ideas for it? When Nintendogs came out, it was called the game that the DS was designed around because if validated that platform and showed what it could do. Nintendo still needs something to do that for the gamepad as Nintendoland obviously couldn't do it and it is clear no 3rd party is going to step up and deliver such a game. However, I would think that if Nintendo had such a game, they'd have gone back to a live E3 show instead of streaming video again. Time to start the E3 speculation!
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 14, 2014, 03:05:16 PM
However, I would think that if Nintendo had such a game, they'd have gone back to a live E3 show instead of streaming video again. Time to start the E3 speculation!
The game will still be playable for all at E3 so it's not like the lack of a live conference means they couldn't have a major game changer ready to show. It just means they still feel the Nintendo Direct video's are a better way to reveal them.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 14, 2014, 04:52:48 PM
I am not so sure Hyrule Warriors won't be a system seller. I know the mainline Zelda games sell great and die hard Zelda fans love the same old same old, but I know a lot of people, myself included, who love Zelda games but have gotten tired of the same old formula and are liking the idea of a new type of Zelda game. Obviously it would need a major ad campaign to be that game but the consensus among Zelda fans is it will suck but I am not so sure.
On the topic of revealing a game early I don't think that is a new thing or a good thing in itself, they have shown games in the past that got people hyped up that never materialized, remember Project HAMMER, or Super Mario 128? As for E3, I am still not convinced their new strategy is the best but I don't think it will kill them I think if anything it is just a sign they are pinching their pennies instead of throwing money around like MS or Sony would do. I think that is smart for a small company losing money and feeling the pressure to diversify their portfolio.
I am also super excited for any new console that/hand held that can unify their entire game division under one platform, I have been wanting that for a long time. It always bothers me how their handhelds get the games and the attention their consoles deserve so if this will bring everything together I am in. I am not sure about the rest of the world but between the Hyrule Warriors, the new figurines, and Mega Man in Smash Bros and if true Pac-Man being in the game too would help build up some hype.
Actually for me personally I have been on the fence for a while but after watching some ACGN videos recently on the Wii U covering NES Remix and a couple other videos I am starting to think I might be getting one sooner than I planned now that I have a second job.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: the asylum on May 15, 2014, 12:04:33 AM
As retardedly unlikely and impractical as it is, if Nintendo merged with Valve I think I'd drink myself into a coma in celebration
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: EasyCure on May 15, 2014, 10:51:10 PM
I think what we are seeing is Nintendo experimenting more and more. I think Nintendo made a miscalculation with the Wii U. They expected it to sell better. But at the same time, I think the Wii U was a stepping block towards their next big thing.
A hybrid is coming. Nintendo's rhetoric isn't even hiding this fact. Nintendo wants a unified OS. Nintendo probably wants to go completely digital as well. And you see Nintendo moving ever so closer to this goal. The question is will Nintendo actually do this properly, or will they stumble like they always seem to stumble. I don't know.
Though, I also do not see this hybrid system as a single system. Instead, I believe it be 2 different systems...that can play the same games. Although the games may be scalable to some degree. I am curious to see what happens...and in 2 years, I might be willing to get back into the gaming world if Nintendo does something amazing. I have really been wanting a new handheld system.
I remember talking about a hybrid system back in the Wii days, and if that really is Nintendo's goal for the next consoles, I'm ready. I can see it being multiple systems, as in: a home console and a handheld sold separately, but have the ability the share the same purchased game. I would invest in that in a minute. It seems odd because I'm not usually a hand-held gamer (it's 2014 and I still don't own a 3DS, and only have about 10 DS games...) but there have been countless times that I wish I could just pause my console game and take it on the go with me. Not some streaming in the next room (gamepad) or buying a different version of it (handhelds in general) but load up the same game from where I left off and call it a day. This is the future of gaming I believe, and the technology is getting there.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 16, 2014, 12:26:58 PM
I don't think (and I certainly hope it's not the case) that Iwata was saying Pokémon could save the Wii U, I think he's just saying that "one game" (not a specific game) could save the Wii U like Pokémon "saved" the GameBoy.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 16, 2014, 12:31:26 PM
I thought I made that clear in the post with the quote (i guess not... although I did address it), but the thread titles only allow so many characters. Words must be chosen carefully, and then clarified in the post itself.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on May 16, 2014, 03:06:46 PM
Iwata's Game Boy comparison isn't ideal because the Game Boy already was a successful platform and Pokemon just gave it a few more years. I wonder if Nintendo's plan was for the Virtual Boy to effectively be the Game Boy successor and when that bombed Pokemon reviving the Game Boy bought them time to get a new successor ready (remember that in Japan Pokemon came out only a year after the VB). Pokemon is more like if a new big hit for the Wii came out and revived that platform.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: ThePerm on May 16, 2014, 04:51:15 PM
So Nintendo will finally make that mmo pokémon game that will sell like crack in the ghetto?
The title of this thread was also once "mergers and acquisitions are on the table" which, would have us drool over sega, but from a long term plan if i were Nintendo i would force sega into exclusivity agreenments, buy xbox and then when that makes my stock jump buy sega. If you think about it, you really don't want another company buying Microsoft. its best to eliminate that problem earlier on in the game. Also buying xbox would create some oppertunities to save both xbox one and wii u. You would just have to run the same platform operating system on the two hardwares. That way any software released on xbox could just be scaled down for wii u. Their hardware is after all related. Also games on the wii u could be redesigned for xbox one and they could use a version of the gamepad for xbox one.
essentially they would become different models of the same product.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 16, 2014, 06:00:21 PM
Yeah and when they merge the hardware they can call it Wii One.
It will forever be a reminder.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 17, 2014, 09:30:22 AM
It's just the "it" in the title that makes it seem like it's Pokémon ("it could save the Wii U too").
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 17, 2014, 09:33:47 AM
As usual a killer app like that can work on a hand held because they are cheaper and less of a dedication for most people, a console is a dedicated entertainment machine a hand held is a distraction when you are on a boring road trip or stuck on a plane/bus or visiting grandma. Most people don't sit and play their handhelds otherwise I know there are those who do but consoles are different. Most people invest in one console and pick up the others when price allows.
Right now Wii U isn't a killer app console that one game will turn around because despite all the good things it does the negative stigma and all the flaws are too apparent and too ingrained in gaming culture now. A single killer app works when the consoles are nearly indistinguishable and a game alone is the selling point but with the new consoles features are the distinguishing selling points and the features that make Wii U unique just aren't that interesting to the masses. In order for a game to be a system seller on Wii U it has to appeal to more than just the typical Nintendo crowd and the casual gamers, it has to have mass gamer appeal, Nintendo is not the company to pull that off in their current state, although I would love it if they could.
I think a hot game that ignites the dormant, on the fence, undecided and lapsed Nintendo gamers might get the ball rolling but most of those gamers are just waiting for the right game and price combination to jump in, the rest of the gamers will get Wii U as a second console when it hits second console price or has that must own Zelda game they will want eventually anyways.
Wii U might be able to steal some thunder away from Xbox One with a real killer app but that is going to be a hard sell because most people disappointed with Xbox have already settled on PS4 so it's going to be one hell of a game and current Nintendo might not be up to that challenge without some outside input.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: the asylum on May 18, 2014, 12:02:03 AM
Let's be honest with ourselves here, there's currently no console-saving killer app on the plate for the Wii U.
"BOO!!! BOO AND HISS!!!" you say, "There's Smash Bros! Hyrule Warriors! and Bayonetta 2!"
Smash Bros is Smash Bros. Yes, it will definitely get a few million units moving. But enough to "save" the Wii U? I wouldn't put any money on it. It's a massive gap between what the Wii U should have been selling at this point and what it actually is selling at this point. Let's also take into account the people who bought a Wii U just for eventual Smash Bros, like me. For the most part, Smash 4 is just preaching to the choir.
Bayonetta 2? Let's take this into perspective. The first Bayonetta was one of those core games that were very elusive on the Wii, published on both the 360 and PS3, and the hype train behind it was on full steam. Pretty much since it's announcement it was hyped by EVERYONE as the hottest **** to ever be shat. And it only did 2 mil across both platforms. And even after all the gushing glowing reviews it still struggled to sell. I don't have high hopes for Bayonetta 2 being the Wii U's shining savior.
Hyrule Warriors, hm. It's Zelda, we've already seen this before. If we could have a near-unanimous praise for Mario 3D World from every professional review site (and GameSpot) and have it make minimal impact on sales, I don't think Warriors is going to be the miracle pill either.
Outside of those three, what else is there? Well I guess there's X, but as good as it looks it doesn't scream system seller to me. For the most part, JRPGs don't exactly appeal to the unwashed North American masses.
So what could save the Wii U? If big guns like Smash and Mario don't do the trick, I don't think anything will. And let's face it, the U is NEVER getting something on the scale of Titanfall or Last of Us. It's almost all in Nintendo's hands at this point. They had a whole year to wow people before the PS4 and Xbone showed up, and they just cruised along like nothing could possibly go wrong. "Big developers thumbing their noses at underpowered hardware? Pfffft, no problem! We've got Mario Party! The casuals will eat that **** up without hesitation! What're these new "smartphone" things, anyway?"
I'm a huge mark for 90s pro wrasslin, and to me, the whole Wii U situation just SCREAMS "nWo" to me. WCW struggled for years to compete with the WWF. Even after bringing in big WWF stars like Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage, they barely made a dent in McMahon's pocketbook. Then all of a sudden, Bischoff came out with the nWo stable, and for the next year and a half, they absolutely slaughtered the WWF. They were pulling in money like nobody's business- Starrcade 1997 made a 1.7 million gate. The profits were pouring in, completely blinding the growing problem underneath: the undercard matches were fantastic, but the main draws, the promotion's heavy hitters, put on horrible, horrible matches, and they got worse with each passing PPV. The big problem was, WCW looked the same in 1999 as it did in 1996. And once the WWF lucked out on Austin and Rock, WCW took a freefall. The nWo was pushed and bloated, splintered and reformed, ended and reborn, hundreds of times, and people just stopped giving a ****. The real talent had already jumped ship for the WWF, and WCW was left with nothing but a slow, painful death.
TL;DR- One trick ponies like the Wii and the nWo are just that- one trick ponies. Money has a tendency to cause blindness.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 18, 2014, 03:03:00 AM
Smash Bros is Smash Bros. Yes, it will definitely get a few million units moving. But enough to "save" the Wii U? I wouldn't put any money on it. It's a massive gap between what the Wii U should have been selling at this point and what it actually is selling at this point. Let's also take into account the people who bought a Wii U just for eventual Smash Bros, like me. For the most part, Smash 4 is just preaching to the choir.
If those few million units put the system in a position it's making a profit then yes, that would be considered saving the Wii U. Once again some people don't seem to understand that saving the Wii U, doesn't mean outselling the PS4/One. All Nintendo wants to do with the Wii U is have it eventually be in a position where it's making a profit for them instead of losing money like it currently has been. They don't need to sell over 100 million systems to do that.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 18, 2014, 09:37:35 AM
Smash Bros is Smash Bros. Yes, it will definitely get a few million units moving. But enough to "save" the Wii U? I wouldn't put any money on it. It's a massive gap between what the Wii U should have been selling at this point and what it actually is selling at this point. Let's also take into account the people who bought a Wii U just for eventual Smash Bros, like me. For the most part, Smash 4 is just preaching to the choir.
If those few million units put the system in a position it's making a profit then yes, that would be considered saving the Wii U. Once again some people don't seem to understand that saving the Wii U, doesn't mean outselling the PS4/One. All Nintendo wants to do with the Wii U is have it eventually be in a position where it's making a profit for them instead of losing money like it currently has been. They don't need to sell over 100 million systems to do that.
I think it is Iawata who said saving the Wii U so the discussion was going based on his comments, he said Pokemon "saved" the Game Boy and a single game could also "save" the Wii U, his words. I am not an expert on Game Boy sales but did it really need saving?
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Stratos on May 18, 2014, 10:35:56 AM
It gave the system a few extra years of life. And maybe Nintendo was considering pulling the plug on handhelds in general.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Phil on May 18, 2014, 11:36:48 AM
I think the original Game Boy Pokemon could save the Wii U too. I agree with Mr. Iwata.
(I totally know that's not what the statement meant. :P)
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: pokepal148 on May 18, 2014, 12:03:54 PM
but technically Pokemon was two games, see Iwata is wrong. #impeachiwata 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 18, 2014, 04:33:11 PM
I was just curious because I wasn't into hand helds at that time. I got my first Game Boy when they released the Pocket, I had a Super Game Boy on SNES but I used that just add value to my SNES not as a hand held. I vaguely remember Sega Game Gear and Game Boy going head to head but I always figured Game Boy trounced Sega from the get go or is that revisionist history written by fanboys?
I guess I do remember having friends who had both, not both each but I had friends with one and friends with the other same with Sega/Super so I suppose I always figured they were just about equal. I always thought Sega and Nintendo were like neck and neck until Sega started going all whacky with add ons around 94-95 and they fell apart from there. I guess if VB came out in 95 that would be the right time frame for them to start wanting to replace Game Boy but I just assumed sales were good but looking back on it they might not have been given all the revisions, the Pocket first then all the colors then the GBC all in like a three year span.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on May 19, 2014, 11:16:01 AM
It's not Revisionist history. The Game Boy has always done better then its competitors at least in the United States.
Though if memory serves it never reached NES or SNES levels of penetration. While the Game Gear was really cool. The cost, battery life, and Size at the time made less then desirable. It was much easier to convince someone to buy a GB.
Now I got my GB buy it happening to be hidden in a Used Truck that we bought with Bo Jackson Hit and Run. Then my parents got a second one so we wouldn't fight over it and one for my Grandpa to play Tetris.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 19, 2014, 02:59:31 PM
Didn't the Gamegear require 8 AA Batteries that only lasted for about 4-5 hours of play time?
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on May 19, 2014, 08:06:47 PM
Didn't the Gamegear require 8 AA Batteries that only lasted for about 4-5 hours of play time?
Even worse was the Sega Nomad, but dammit did I want one when I was kid. The idea of playing Sega Genesis games on the go was so damn alluring for 10 year old me.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on May 20, 2014, 10:41:50 AM
Didn't the Gamegear require 8 AA Batteries that only lasted for about 4-5 hours of play time?
It was 6, and that was an awkward number since batteries are (almost entirely) sold in multiples of 4. And yeah, the battery life was miserable. The Gameboy needing only (LOL) four batteries and lasting so long (to me) is what made it win out in the end.
I'm sure Pokemon was great at driving sales because of the anime and the rest of the craze. But, encouraging others to buy Gameboys to battle and trade made the games better. I can't think of a console game where that has the same effect (i.e., "if you buy this console and this game, then we will both have more fun").
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 20, 2014, 05:17:08 PM
Didn't the Gamegear require 8 AA Batteries that only lasted for about 4-5 hours of play time?
It was 6, and that was an awkward number since batteries are (almost entirely) sold in multiples of 4. And yeah, the battery life was miserable. The Gameboy needing only (LOL) four batteries and lasting so long (to me) is what made it win out in the end.
I'm sure Pokemon was great at driving sales because of the anime and the rest of the craze. But, encouraging others to buy Gameboys to battle and trade made the games better. I can't think of a console game where that has the same effect (i.e., "if you buy this console and this game, then we will both have more fun").
Maybe that is what they will do with those figures, if you can trade them with friends that is.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 20, 2014, 05:30:10 PM
You gotta talk your friend into buying a Wii U, and that game, and then you need to coordinate on which figures you want to own in order for the two of you to "trade" your collection through NFC.
I would assume there would have to be another way to "trade" figures or collect figures you don't own over the internet or through continued gameplay.
Either way, without causing a Pokemon-like craze, I don't see it "saving" the Wii U, unless by "saving" the Wii U, we mean making it stay viable (respectable amount of monthly sales) till the next system can finally come in and put it out of it's misery.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 20, 2014, 10:30:33 PM
When you explain it like that, doesn't it sound just like the company who made four player games on a Game Cube that supported four controllers that still required four GBA machines plus four special cables?
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 20, 2014, 11:48:49 PM
And those games failed as far as I know.
[Insert Penny arcade comic here]
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on May 21, 2014, 10:00:48 AM
Yeah, those GBA/GC games didn't work. They were a classic example of the economic principal of "doing too much". Pokemon worked on the GB because how easy it was to get someone involved. All you needed was for one person to have a link cable. With the GBA/GC link games, you needed even more hardware and had to be at someone's house. The figurines are similar in that few people are going to buy a thing, so they could buy more things to trade and play with.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on May 21, 2014, 01:31:55 PM
Even if one game "saves" the Wii U, what can it really do? The Wii had Wii Sports and sold like hotcakes for the first half of its life and then was an irrelevent wasteland for the second half. It seemed like once Wii's could consistently be found in stores Wii-mania was over. The prolonged success was probably more about the supply failing to meet the demand. Once the demand was met and people had their fill of Wii Sports it was all over.
The Wii has terrible third party support. I remember for years the argument was made that third parties were merely caught off guard by the console's success and would naturally shift development to it as it became the market leader. That never happened. It didn't happen because third parties wanted to make multiplatform games and could not include the Wii in that development because its hardware was not on par. The Wii U has that same limitation.
So let's say Nintendo does manage to somehow bust out a late killer app that starts moving Wii U's. Then what? The third party support won't return because of the hardware limitations. The best we could hope for is the gimmicky shovelware exclusives like we got on the Wii. Early in the Wii U's life there was talk about PS360 multiplatform releases but by the time the Wii U gets its act together those games won't be made anymore. And with no one but Nintendo making any decent games where do things go from there? It'll be like the Wii where the interest disappears. The Wii U could get better sales and Nintendo could beef up their development and release games more frequently but the console itself is too restrictive for things to really improve to an acceptable level. It will always have game droughts and poor third party support.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 21, 2014, 02:54:43 PM
Well, we figured something like this might happen once Nintendo decided to essentially relaunch an upgraded GC, as that put them a generation behind. That was only reaffirmed by then launching an upgraded PS360 this gen, keeping them closer to last gen than competing in this gen. So the third party situation might never change if they are only seeking the latest and greatest despite rising production cost of chasing the newest tech. On the other hand Nintendo mostly has themselves to blame.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Mop it up on May 25, 2014, 04:17:19 PM
The best we could hope for is the gimmicky shovelware exclusives like we got on the Wii.
That's exactly what I was hoping for since what you consider trash were actually some of the most fun games on the system. The lower dev costs and "expanded audience" resulted in more companies releasing quirky games and seeing what stuck. Unfortunately, even if Wii U sales were to pick up, I don't think we'd see this stuff on the system because the cost of development is a lot higher and most companies can't take that risk.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Stratos on May 25, 2014, 04:55:28 PM
We can always hope for quirky titles and sequels to previous quirky titles on the eShop.
I'd love to see a few of those cult classics get a second chance.
Boom Blox and No More Heroes should get sequels.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Phil on May 25, 2014, 05:32:57 PM
I really can't take the opinion seriously of anyone who casually throws out the term "shovelware" for any game he or she didn't like.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on May 25, 2014, 06:56:08 PM
Once you filter out the"shovelware" the Wii had a solid library of titles. Plus is had Super Mario Galaxy so alls well that ends well.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Ian Sane on May 26, 2014, 12:44:48 PM
I really can't take the opinion seriously of anyone who casually throws out the term "shovelware" for any game he or she didn't like.
What you don't consider stuff like NinjaBread Man to be shovelware or all the crappy games based on kids' movies or Wii Sports knock-offs with intentionally similar packaging designed to trick people into thinking they're part of the same series? If there was never any legitimate intent to make a decent game, if the whole goal was just to scam morons that don't know better then, yes, "shovelware" is a perfectly acceptable term. I don't mean games I don't like, I mean half-baked games that were just hammered out in a hurry to get some sort of Wii product on the shelf while the "real" projects were made for the other consoles.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Phil on May 26, 2014, 03:05:21 PM
Ah, okay. I thought you were saying something else. Sorry for misconstruing your post! :)
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Mop it up on May 26, 2014, 09:16:47 PM
Once you filter out the"shovelware" the Wii had a solid library of titles. Plus is had Super Mario Galaxy so alls well that ends well.
Isn't this true of all systems? Every system has junk games. The PS1 had over 7,000 games released for it, probably less than 5% of those were anything worthwhile.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 29, 2014, 08:57:24 PM
most kids games are crap, but every once in a while they churn out a big hit. But um we are forgetting that kids games are made for kids, not us adults. What games did we play when we were kids? I played the **** out of Duck Tales, Chip n Dales, and Aladdin on Sega. Those were movie or cartoon tie ins aimed a children and they turned out to be great games, one of which just received a full HD remake. Hell Mario games are primarily kids games which might explain why some people lose interest when they get older. Also don't forget that kids do play video games too and they have lower expectations not to mention cheap, often clueless, parents.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Ceric on May 30, 2014, 01:13:37 PM
There some good kid games out there. Then there are some good Kids games that don't realize they are kids game. So they be perfect for my son but then they require a lot of reading. Effectively making them not for kids anymore.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 31, 2014, 11:39:59 AM
There some good kid games out there. Then there are some good Kids games that don't realize they are kids game. So they be perfect for my son but then they require a lot of reading. Effectively making them not for kids anymore.
so you stop being a kid as soon as you learn to read?
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 03, 2014, 01:09:22 AM
I think this idea there are few good kid games is bull.
It is a lie that gets spread because of a simple false pretext. When a game is good and becomes popular it will not be defined as a kids game because adults don't want to play kids games.
Is Mario considered a kids game? Not really. Is Zelda considered a kids game? Nope. How about Mario Kart 8? again Nope. Pokemon? Only by the ignorant.
3rd party games then. Is Skylanders considered only a kids game? It even uses toys to sell more game. Sonic? Mega Man?
Basically, think back to the games you played as kid. Think about the games you enjoy playing now...and finally is there any overlap? I bet there is definitely overlap. Now look at the games you enjoy playing now, and look at the games today kids are playing. Is there any overlap? I bet you plenty.
What is my point? Games can't be cleanly defined by demographic, and once a game is good it tends to break any demographic molds that it may have been labeled by.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: nickmitch on June 03, 2014, 09:27:11 AM
Some games clearly can be broken down by demographic, and I think those are the licensed games. Where kids who are fans of certain shows would want to play the game based on the show without knowing that it might suck.'
I also feel like some games are designed to appeal to certain age groups even if they appeal to younger ones as well. There's also a lot of indie games that play off of nostalgia for earlier generations of gaming, which doesn't work if you weren't born back then. Nintendo games just kinda break that mold by being universally appealing.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 03, 2014, 10:53:44 AM
I don't know if a single game can save the Wii U, but a complete lack of games (on the other consoles) may just do it.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Soren on June 03, 2014, 11:30:29 AM
Yesterday while flipping through Discovery I saw my first Wii U commercial.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Mop it up on June 04, 2014, 06:55:07 PM
Yesterday while flipping through Discovery I saw my first Wii U commercial.
That was the first time you saw a Wii U commercial? Do you watch TV around the holidays? I saw plenty of Wii U ads last Christmas, mostly for Super Mario 3D World, but also Wii Sports Club. I don't think I've seen one since then though, until last week when the Mario Kart VIII ones started. I've seen a lot of them for MKVIII as well, and at least 4 different ones, so it's nice to see that they are advertising it a lot. I hope it helps.
Title: Re: "A single game saved the GB (Pokemon), it could save the Wii U too” Iwata said
Post by: Soren on June 04, 2014, 08:20:25 PM
Yesterday while flipping through Discovery I saw my first Wii U commercial.
That was the first time you saw a Wii U commercial? Do you watch TV around the holidays? I saw plenty of Wii U ads last Christmas, mostly for Super Mario 3D World, but also Wii Sports Club.
Work kept me MIA for most of the holiday season. Not much time for TV so I don't recall seeing those ads. It's still shocking because I saw so many Wii ads back in the day. I hope the commercial push continues because they need it.
