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NWR Interactive => Podcast Discussion => Topic started by: Pandareus on August 11, 2013, 10:07:13 PM

Title: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: Pandareus on August 11, 2013, 10:07:13 PM

Pikmin has arrived, along with other brand new games and also unspeakably old ones.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/35159

It hasn't been easy lately, but we pulled together the entire RFN crew to mark the special occasion of a Wii U game launching. It's Pikmin 3, of course, but New Business also covers the brand new Cloudberry Kingdom, the potentially upcoming Shadow of the Eternals, Sakura Samurai, a handheld Shining Force, and... Zork? Yeah, Zork. Deal with it.

Listener Mail has been streaming in lately, and we sample the batch with your questions about the future of Endless Ocean, Miyamoto's new franchise, the quality of Wii U's virtual console, and the unobtainable classics we'd like to return. Please keep feeding that mailbag because it makes this show what it is!

We probably won't have a normal RFN next week, but don't forget to play Pandora's Tower if you want to follow along with RetroActive, and do hit up that forum thread!

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: chilenozo on August 12, 2013, 12:12:09 AM

Great episode guys, here are my thoughts.
 
1.- Pikmin 3: Yeah I get that Nintendo is finally learning about the HD era. But I think they were swimming in the pools of money they had during the Wii times instead of having paying more attention for the development efforts that take (AAA 3rd party studios use hundreds of employees). For comparison, Sony took the money from PS3 and their saving, and started buying new studios and employers in order to be prepared for the PS4. As a results they have massive amounts of expert employees working on PS4 games that I bet will have lots of content.
But man, now that we have WiiU Nintendo will not be able to avoid the big talk about quantity, quality and price. I think, compared to many AAA HD games, Pikimn 3 IS EXPENSIVE!!!...I like Pikmin 3 but we the gamers that have been playing HD games for the last 6+ years will agree that Nintendo's Pikmin 3 is not up to the standards of what other AAA 3rd party games offer. For example, in the WiiU a game like AC3 or COD BO2 you have online multiplayer, massive (way longer than Pikmin) story modes, and several other modes. While Pikmin 3 gives you a game that you can quickly finish in under 10 hr and off-line 2 player multiplayers....sorry Nintendo but despite the reviews, this game SHOULD NOT COST 59..99 PERIOD...I'm a die-hard Nintendo fan but I don't think I should give them an easier look than I do to any other massive 3rd party franchise!...the only Nintendo games I'm playing are VC games...and that's cause of nostalgia and how so much expensive are the original old games compared to VC.
I guess this criticism agrees with that comment of one of you said that, compared to other multiplatform games, this game is not on par. Nintendo has to worry about their games big time. It's not just about fun and gameplay anymore, but also content. We need online, we need length, we need better developed stories. I feel sorry for them for not giving them enough time to adapt, but it was their decision to hold that long to come to HD, and their games WILL BE COMPARED AGAINST AAA 3rd parties!...sadly I also see myself playing more games from 3rd parties multiplatform games on the WiiU than Nintendo games...and that's bad for Nintendo...now I'm even dubious about what's gonna happen with Smahs Bros....we know there won't be story mode....and again it probably won't be a mayor difference from the previous SSB.
 
2.- About Wii-remote o the WiiU: stop complaining about the controls, the Wii-Remote Pikimn 3 rocks...lazy people will never try hard to adapt (evolve)...but those like me who did try hard now can't stop using motion controls (I can't play COD in Play Station anymore). I feel like there are a vocal minority of gamers that think that we have to stick in the old control scheme that never evolved. I feel like I'm in the liberal sides of things, I like to experiment new controllers, new ways to play. Since I'm also a PC gamer it is more easy for me to adapt to motion controls than a gamer that only uses a dual analog and nothing else.
 
3.- This years Club Nintendo's prizes were even worst than last years....oh man I was super disanointed and I lost any hype to Club Nintendo....I've been following the rewards and stuff for more than 2 years now, and it was exciting just at the beginning. The inly time it was so-so exciting was when they offered Super Mario RPG and Star Fox 64 for 300 coins or so....I wasn't a Club Nintendo platinum member when they offered the Hanafuda card, I wish they had them in offering...other than that Club Nintendo sucks.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: broodwars on August 12, 2013, 01:54:20 AM

I really don't mind the price on Pikmin 3, and I haven't even gotten around to starting a game on it yet. The game's been in development for ages now, it's cost Nintendo far more than they will ever make on it, and by all accounts it's a good game. To me, the care that reportedly has gone into this game and the quality of the experience justifies the $60, and Nintendo realistically probably couldn't have charged less for it.

The game I really have a problem Nintendo charging $60 for is Wind Waker HD. Most of the companies this generation making HD remakes have put far more effort and far more content into their collections than Nintendo has a single Zelda game.  Other than "Because it's the Precious and We Wants It!", what about that HD upgrade is worth $60?

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: chilenozo on August 12, 2013, 09:15:50 AM

Quote from: broodwars on August 12, 2013, 01:54:20 AM

I really don't mind the price on Pikmin 3, and I haven't even gotten around to starting a game on it yet. The game's been in development for ages now, it's cost Nintendo far more than they will ever make on it, and by all accounts it's a good game. To me, the care that reportedly has gone into this game and the quality of the experience justifies the $60, and Nintendo realistically probably couldn't have charged less for it.

The game I really have a problem Nintendo charging $60 for is Wind Waker HD. Most of the companies this generation making HD remakes have put far more effort and far more content into their collections than Nintendo has a single Zelda game.  Other than "Because it's the Precious and We Wants It!", what about that HD upgrade is worth $60?

But if the game cost them more money than supposed to, that's not our problem.
 
A good example is Duke Nukem. Man I had nostalgia for that game, I wanted it to be good, they took like, how much?, 10+ years in development....and the end result was poor, the reviews destroyed it and the sales very poor. I bet that all the companies that worked on it did never charged all the money they spent on it, and never recovered it anyways. This is not charity.
 
Pikmin 3 is good, as Eartbound is good, but none of them, the former due the lack of content, the later for being an old game that graphically hasn't aged well, deserve to cost 60 bucks. Because now, thanks to big games like COD, AC, Bioshock, Batman, etc., the standards are higher than ever before and we shouldn't low those standards with our beloved Nintendo!
 
The only new things Nintendo added on Pikmin 3 beside the graphical upgrade are the 3 captains (whoa) and 2 new Pikmin types, 2 Pikmin types!!!! (while getting rid of some others)...that and offline 2 player bingo battle...but that has been done since the NES times!

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 12, 2013, 10:22:17 AM

From what i'm reading in reviews, Pikmin 3 is EASILY worth $60.

BTW Chilenozo, they did NOT get rid of any Pikmin types. Purple and White may not be in the story mode, but they are in the Mission mode.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: KDR_11k on August 12, 2013, 11:07:54 AM

I recently threw away the manual and box for Ninja Cop (European version of Ninja Five-O), that probably reduced its resale value a lot but I'm not planning to sell the cart anyway.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: azeke on August 13, 2013, 03:32:59 AM

First segment feels like that quote from "Dark Knight" about what Gotham needs.

I'm in the same boat as Guillaume. Cloudberry Kingdom just scares me. Some of their videos showed true platforming hell closer to "I wanna be the guy" levels of sadism rather than Super Meat Boy (at least in it's earlier levels cause after Cotton Alley it definitely becomes just as ruthless).

I am tempted to get a 3DS version later (Ubisoft is making one, right?).

I'm think i'm good with Rayman if i want some randomly generated platforming on my Wii U.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 13, 2013, 05:37:29 AM

Don't take too much from the videos those guys put out. Most of them are way more insane than the actual levels you play, at least earlier in the game. I may have a high tolerance for platformer difficulty, but I don't think it's that hard.

The thing about it is, I'll go five or six levels without issue and then run into a level that I die on ten times. Maybe that's just a side-effect of the procedurally generated levels.

If you like 2D platformers, I can't recommend this game enough. The story mode mentioned in this episode is easier than some of the other parts of the game, and is a good way to learn the game. It's also hundreds of levels long, so I'd argue that part's worth the $10 on its own, without even getting into the procedurally generated content.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: Soren on August 13, 2013, 10:24:13 AM

What he said. As Johnny said you can cater the procedurally generated levels to your own difficulty, right down to how many enemies and obstacles you want. Of course it's real fun to try the extreme levels and show them off but that's not the only part of this game.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: marty on August 13, 2013, 10:15:15 PM

good epi.  Cloudberry Kingdom is something that was on my radar but I wasn't too keen on--I'll probably end up checking it out at some point now.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: daverhodus on August 14, 2013, 09:43:20 PM

Regarding Wii U Virtual Console:

NES games look washed out and stretched horizontally to me. SNES games look fine.

I have noticed control lag on Punch Out!! and Super Mario World.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: Evan_B on August 18, 2013, 02:41:06 AM

It's disturbing to see the amount of people willing to blow through a game at the expense of actually enjoying it. I've been taking my sweet time to appreciate every angle of Pikmin 3 and it's taken me just about ten hours so far. It's a game that's meant to be enjoyed rather than sped through, and the nature of self-proclaimed video-journalists and those on the top of new video game releases is kind of aggravating and annoying to me. Can't you just enjoy a game for what it is instead of placing 'industry norms' which are barely relevant since games with 'substantial campaigns' are rarely more that six hours, tops.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: Sundoulos on August 21, 2013, 07:52:22 AM

Among the list of classic NES games that I'd like to see make some sort of return, whether by remake or digital release:  Clash at Demonhead, Crystalis and Magic of Scheherazade.   All three fit in the categories of games that I rented (sometimes repeatedly) but never owned.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: Sundoulos on August 21, 2013, 07:52:44 AM

Quote from: Sundoulos on August 21, 2013, 07:52:22 AM

I recently mentioned this in a talkback thread, but among the list of classic NES games that I'd like to see make some sort of return, whether by remake or digital release:  Clash at Demonhead, Crystalis and Magic of Scheherazade.   All three fit in the categories of games that I rented (sometimes repeatedly) but never owned.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: Sundoulos on August 21, 2013, 07:53:13 AM

I recently mentioned this in a talkback thread, but among the list of classic NES games that I'd like to see make some sort of return, whether by remake or digital release:  Clash at Demonhead, Crystalis and Magic of Scheherazade.   All three fit in the categories of games that I rented (sometimes repeatedly) but never owned.

Title: Re: Episode 346: In These Days of Graphics
Post by: Sundoulos on August 21, 2013, 07:56:04 AM

I recently mentioned this in a talkback thread, but among the list of classic NES games that I'd like to see make some sort of return, whether by remake or digital release:  Clash at Demonhead, Crystalis and Magic of Scheherazade.   I suppose that in the case of some of them, it would be a stretch to call them classic, but they were all solid games.  All three fit in the categories of games that I rented (sometimes repeatedly) but never owned due to my limited funding as a kid in the NES era.