Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: pokepal148 on May 17, 2013, 07:57:11 AM
Title: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 17, 2013, 07:57:11 AM
The general consensus seems to be that the Wii U is underpowered. whether this claim holds 100% true or not is still uncertain but it will hurt the Wii U's image nonetheless. How can Nintendo handle this situation. What do you think?
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Toruresu on May 17, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Bring on the games! I have a feeling this next gen will be like the GC era again, (It's under powered! It's for kids! The control is weird! etc.) But we will get some 3rd party support, some multiplatform games, some exclusives from 3rd parties, but it won't be the same as PS4 or Durango.
All Nintendo can do is bring on the games.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: shingi_70 on May 17, 2013, 09:37:07 AM
Nothing they really can do. At this point its life even the PS3 didn't have such low sales or lack of any real software support. The Wii U while being the first next gen console is stuck in such a weird position because Nintendo didn't want to take a loss. So now they're stuck in this position of being slightly more powerful than the last generation of consoles, but not on par with the other two. Not only that but irrc both PS4/Durango are using an X86 architecture.
Compounding that is most developers either ae giving the minimal amount of support or even none at all. Nintendo's only real hopes is too try and get the more Niche Japanese companies on its development side of things and relying on Indies to feel in the gap. Even that might not work since MSFT/Sony will probably go hard to get indies on they're platform as well.
That and Nintendo could have used its cash reserves to open more development studios and stretch its development arms to more regions. SUrely the current Nintendo leadership saw how this approach payed out well for SOny who invested deep in multiple first party experiences after having several rough patches early on in the PS3 life. Not all these efforts were good with a lot being Average or Bad but it showed that SOny cared about supporting its own platform. Now were seeing MIcrosoft doing the same thing with adding a ton of development studios from Canada (still think they should have scooped up THQ Montreal) as well as restructuring their European and American studios. While its yet to fully pay off its a promising look.
Nintendo on the other hand has only acquired two studios being Monolith (really good with expanding the studio as well) and Project Sora which I think closed down after finishing KId ICarus meaning a waste of resources and talent. Yet beyond all of this Nintendo is obviously having problems supporting both the 3DS and Wii U. I saw this coming right when we knew the power of the 3dS so nintendo had too know that when putting a **** ton of 3DS projects in the pipeline they wouldn't have the man power to adequately support both systems at the same time. They could have alleviated this problem by putting eshop projects for WIi U early in the pipeline and staffing up hardcore during the Wii era. When a project as small as a mario kart game for 3ds needs retro to come in and help.
So honestly Nintendo is in this mess fro their own doing. I guess I should wait till after the ND to expound more on the third party support stuff.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Adrock on May 17, 2013, 09:41:41 AM
I don't expect a 3DS-esque turn around. 3DS has things going for it that Wii U does not and will not have namely that Nintendo has always performed well in the handheld space and handhelds are just more popular in Japan so third parties want to support it.
Wii U will begin performing better in the latter part of the year as its main problem is lack of software. Nintendo has also finally rolled out the Virtual Console and improved the loading issues.
Third party support is likely to remain anemic. A few multiplatform games while PS3/360 are alive and kicking then the occasional exclusive that Nintendo seeks out themselves (e.g. Bayontta 2). I don't know if there's a way to fix this. Third parties don't care that Sony and Microsoft lost money on hardware with PS3/360. They didn't have to shoulder any of that responsibility. Since Nintendo is unwilling to do that, support for their home consoles are going to suffer. Things may get better in the future when graphics plateau, but still not a guarantee.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: shingi_70 on May 17, 2013, 10:06:39 AM
Welp exclusive Sonic and Scribblenauts means i'm getting a Wii U.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on May 17, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
Welp exclusive Sonic and Scribblenauts means i'm getting a Wii U.
Good for you, Shingi! I look forward to "friending" you.
I think more games will keep the Wii U generally afloat. It will be interesting to see what happens when the Sony and Microsoft consoles come out. They will get a decent splash of sales off the top, I am sure. But those rising dev costs could mean that, instead of going bankrupt, some mid-tier devs will make "current gen", reasonably costed games that can run on all 3 systems. Or not. I'm no Nostradamus.
As long as Nintendo keeps putting out the occasional/quarterly good game and there are some interesting e-shop or other releases in the gaps, I'll be fine. I really like the Wii U and don't yet have a yen to pick up anything else. We'll see. If awesome Star Wars games start showing up for other platforms, I may be forced to bite.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 17, 2013, 01:42:06 PM
If it isn't really that underpowered Nintendo needs to demonstrate it. Nintendo Land and NSMB U are not visually impressive at all. There is nothing that makes it obvious that the Wii U is even more powerful than a PS3.
If it is truly underpowered in a big enough way then Nintendo either has to hold down the fort until the end of the generation, which would involve more developers as they suck at providing the system with games now and that would only continue unless they expanded. Or if the sales are going to stay as poor as they have been they need to kill the damn thing off and replace it with something that actually comes across as current. If they make it backwards compatible then there is a slightly smoother transition for existing Wii U owners. I figure it would piss off a lot Wii U owners to have their console die out so fast but, well, it ain't like there are many of them to begin with and those that actually bought a Wii U are going to be more the Nintendo diehards that will likely remain loyal.
I wonder if there is a way they could make a new console to replace the Wii U that can also be sold as an add-on to the Wii U. So the bulk of the marketing is on the standalone system but a Wii U owner can buy the cheaper add-on to turn their Wii U into this new system, so they won't feel to ripped off by a DOA product. But that's probably not feasible.
The decision to stay with the Wii U or kill it will ultimately be decided by the market. Nintendo will probably stay if it remains profitable and only kill it if they feel they absolutely have to.
The Wii U comes across to me as Nintendo's Atari 7800 - a console that is so out-of-date from day one that there is no real market for it.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Adrock on May 17, 2013, 02:01:45 PM
I wonder if there is a way they could make a new console to replace the Wii U that can also be sold as an add-on to the Wii U. So the bulk of the marketing is on the standalone system but a Wii U owner can buy the cheaper add-on to turn their Wii U into this new system, so they won't feel to ripped off by a DOA product. But that's probably not feasible.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ThePerm on May 17, 2013, 02:02:55 PM
People will look down on Wii U until a triad of things happens. People see the price tag of ps4/durango and smarten up, the good games roll out, wii u itself has a price cut. Wii U is going to have a slow burn to popularity. The big thing is 3rd parties, well you know I've had a love hate relationship with third parties for 15 years.
and the wii u can easily be upgraded. All they have to do is make a controller that has some extra juice. about 3.5 years into the system when you can really tell the difference in graphics Nintendo could just release a controller with a processor and extra ram and do an update on the operating system. At that point some of the load would be taken off the main box. Also by this time portable processors and memory will have a huge price advantage thanks to cell phone manufacturers.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 17, 2013, 02:04:13 PM
shingi, you must have excellent sources on the power of the PS4/720, last i checked all we knew was that the PS4 had 8 cores running on a CPU designed for tablets...
honestly i think the gap is small enough that nintendo can find ways to work around it, at worst we will see something like this
Quote
coming soon, (http://www.gaminggenerations.com/store/images/expansion_pack_n64_4mb.jpg) Wii U version
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 17, 2013, 02:33:11 PM
My suggestion for an add-on is entirely to please the existing Wii U owners. Like it isn't really an add-on, it's a new console and is marketed as a new console and the games are branded as such. It's just that instead of making Wii U owners pay for a whole new system they can pay a lower price to upgrade their existing console to the new one.
Think of it like the Wii existed and that was what was in the ads and in the stores but there was also an add-on you could buy from Nintendo's web site that would turn your Gamecube into a Wii. I have no idea if this is feasible from a technology standpoint. So don't think of it as an add-on and all the problems that come from add-ons but rather as a new console that provides a cheaper way for Wii U owners to upgrade.
Or let's say this new console also uses the Wii U Gamepad with no updates to the controller itself and you can buy it with the new system or buy a special package that doesn't come with the controller and saves existing Wii U owners some money.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Adrock on May 17, 2013, 03:11:04 PM
I know what you meant; it's still a horrible idea. More importantly, there's still no way Nintendo can offer more powerful hardware in any fashion and sell it at a mass market price without absorbing losses like Sony and Microsoft do. Nintendo didn't go with the hardware they did just to **** with you. The sooner you accept that, the better we'll all be.
Nintendo hardware engineer: We could include much faster processors and more RAM with minimal extra cost. Satoru Iwata: No. **** Ian Sane. Shigeru Miyamoto: I know, right? What an asshole. Satoru Iwata: (laughs)
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ceric on May 17, 2013, 03:40:08 PM
Sony isn't taking a lost on the PS4. (https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&noj=1&site=webhp&source=hp&q=PS4+Sell+Loss&oq=PS4+Sell+Loss&gs_l=hp.3...5182.13285.0.13468.22.18.4.0.0.0.94.958.18.18.0...0.0...1c.1.14.hp.dKYO-KByOag)
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on May 17, 2013, 04:32:40 PM
Nintendo hardware engineer: We could include much faster processors and more RAM with minimal extra cost. Satoru Iwata: No. **** Ian Sane. Shigeru Miyamoto: I know, right? What an asshole. Satoru Iwata: (laughs)
So funny. I laughed hard. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 17, 2013, 05:07:40 PM
I know what you meant; it's still a horrible idea. More importantly, there's still no way Nintendo can offer more powerful hardware in any fashion and sell it at a mass market price without absorbing losses like Sony and Microsoft do. Nintendo didn't go with the hardware they did just to **** with you. The sooner you accept that, the better we'll all be.
Well since the market doesn't seem to want to buy a "PS360 but made by Nintendo and released six years later" is Nintendo's future on the console front just fucked then? I don't think Nintendo should match specs to personally please me but to release a product that people actually want and actually has some logical reason for existing. Without the widespread casual appeal their is no real market for contemporary consoles with glorified last gen hardware. If Nintendo can't match the other guys, then they can't make consoles anymore. They can either get with the times or quit and the market will force them in one of those directions. The Wii was a once-in-a-lifetime perfect storm of the right product, game and audience all coming together at the right time. Nintendo needs to realize that (if they haven't already).
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 17, 2013, 05:24:43 PM
neogaf seems to have found something...
Quote
Quote
Time to clear up what i said here, here and in some other messages a few months ago, as i've already revealed it on IRC.
One of the Wii U core wasn't used throughout the development of several launch window games. It's an "engine related issue", meaning it's the way the teams behind those titles have programmed their engine for the Wii U CPU. It wasn't widespread, not universally seen on all the games, but witnessed on at least a few of those. The developers found and resolved this problem mere months/weeks prior release, and most of them gained a nice increase in FPS. It's one the origin of the huge boost in framerate i reported a long time ago that some studios managed to get (from 30 fps to 60 fps for some games), along with new dev kits, etc.
You heard it right, a whole core of the Wii U CPU wasn't put in use for most of the dev cycle of several titles, before it was fixed.
It's rather telling either: - on the crucial need of studios, accustomed to the HD-Twins framework, to adapt their code to the Wiii U specifics - or the perfectible state of documentation/dev kit/SDK's at the time - or [insert your own conclusion/guess derived from this info]
Interesting. That would actually explain a LOT.
This actually makes me even more impressed with the Wii U hardware given that they able to get performance equal to the last gen consoles with only 2 cores of the CPU. I feel that this needs to be covered by major game journalists. This would clear a lot of misconceptions from the launch period.
Sony isn't taking a lost on the PS4. (https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&noj=1&site=webhp&source=hp&q=PS4+Sell+Loss&oq=PS4+Sell+Loss&gs_l=hp.3...5182.13285.0.13468.22.18.4.0.0.0.94.958.18.18.0...0.0...1c.1.14.hp.dKYO-KByOag)
I had a feeling someone was going to reference this which is why I said:
there's still no way Nintendo can offer more powerful hardware in any fashion and sell it at a mass market price without absorbing losses like Sony and Microsoft do.
The last rumor I read had PS4 at $430 on the low end. That's not mass market to me. $350 was pushing it for Wii U.
And do you even know what you linked? (http://i.imgur.com/F4NjEKk.jpg) Sony didn't specifically say they would break even or that losses would be minimal. "Not planning a major loss." What does that even mean? That statement from Sony is just vague enough to placate investors at an earnings call. What's a "major loss" to Sony? With PS3, Sony lost something like $300 per unit. Is anything below that not a major loss?
Nintendo is selling Wii U at a loss, but makes it back after a single piece of software is sold. I consider that minimal. I highly doubt that's anywhere close to what Sony means. Being generous, let's say Sony takes $100 loss on PS4. That's still not something Nintendo would do. The only thing Nintendo can really do in the future to offer slightly more powerful hardware while keeping costs down is not use custom chips. How much more powerful would that be? Apparently, Sony and Microsoft are both doing that so if they take a loss, Nintendo would have to take a loss to match their hardware. This isn't magic. To match hardware power, they would have to do what Sony and Microsoft do.
If Nintendo can't match the other guys, then they can't make consoles anymore.
Sure, they can. Nintendo is the only company that publishes Nintendo games. The reason Wii U has performed so poorly thus far is because Nintendo itself have barely released any software for it. Their main draw so far is a New Super Mario Bros. game released mere months after a New Super Mario Bros. game on their more popular handheld. It'd be nice if Nintendo had third party games to supplement their own lineup, but Nintendo will be fine as a console maker as long as they continue making good games.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: the asylum on May 17, 2013, 05:29:39 PM
From a hardware perspective, better hardware power. Any monkey could get games like Mass Effect or Crackdown to work with a wiimote. The reason why they didn't bother with it was because the Wii's hardware was vastly inferior. I wouldn't think remapping control input would be that much of a task.
Also, Nintendo needs to shake the kiddy stigma, and fast. Towards the end, pretty much the only people who bothered with the Wii were the casuals, exactly not the market to build a base on. There's still Wii owners who don't know what this newfangled "U Adapter" does. Yes, there were lots of M-rated titles for the Wii, but none of them sold well. What Nintendo needs is another Eternal Darkness. No, not Shadow of the Eternals, but a mature-targeted title made from within Nintendo. Not from a "come and go" studio like Rare or SK was, but one that pretty much is Nintendo, like HAL or even Retro. Now I'm not saying they should take Mario and turn it into GRIMDARK like Dark Knight Returns did to Batman, but a whole new IP geared towards older audiences.
If the EA snub and almost nonexistant big game release schedule is anything to go by, Nintendo's pandering to the casuals is seriously starting to hurt them
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: azeke on May 17, 2013, 05:38:21 PM
The price issue and lack of BC is the main reason why i think "next-gen" won't take off as high as people hope it will.
Both other consoles will be 400+$ something and that plus slew of cross-gen titles just leave no reason for regular gamer to upgrade. This year it's all gonna be about xbox/ps3 with 3ds joining on the fun between the two.
The only possibility changing that would be if Microsoft decides to go for jugular and will present really attractive subscription based plan.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 17, 2013, 06:02:55 PM
were getting to a point, particularly with graphics of diminishing returns it seems, but did anybody read the thing i quoted, black ops 2 on two cores
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2013, 07:20:14 PM
Nintendo could do software and firmware updates to help the performance of the system a little bit.
What it really needs is a killer app. A Goldeneye, A Smash Bros Melee, a Brain Training, a Wii Fit. Something that will grab the desire of a large group of people.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 17, 2013, 08:42:09 PM
The rising cost of game development could work in Nintendo's favor. If game companies can not find a way to drive costs down of the next five to ten years then a significant portion of the game industry will go bankrupt. Many independent and mid-tier developers will look to consoles that are the cheapest to make games for. Unless Sony and Microsoft make their next consoles cheap to develop for then the Wii U being slightly weaker will make many developers turn to Nintendo and the Wii U out of necessity. Companies like EA will eventually go bankrupt unless they change their habits.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 17, 2013, 08:52:56 PM
ShyGuy: Yes, we all know Nintendo needs that killer hit. But Pikmin 3 is not that hit. I believe that hit will be whatever Retro is working on...and I believe that game is being planned to release to compete with Microsoft and Sony's launch...but will that game be enough? It depends on what that game is really.
If Nintendo could get a cool Retro game that appeals to Core gamers, and an awesome casual/ Mario Kart like experience going...then Nintendo could pull around a great holiday season. Next year, will be the year of Smash...which will help too.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 17, 2013, 08:56:48 PM
I think that we will get Smash Brothers by April of 2014 because Nintendo will want all of its cannons on deck to compete with its rivals new consoles and whatever games they have for them when they do release.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 17, 2013, 10:31:42 PM
I think Nintendo's goal is to have Smash Bros. out by the end of the fiscal year, but I don't know that they'll hit that mark.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: broodwars on May 17, 2013, 11:12:36 PM
I think Nintendo's goal is to have Smash Bros. out by the end of the fiscal year, but I don't know that they'll hit that mark.
Given all the production difficulties with that game that Nintendo's been implying over the last 6 months or so, I just don't see that game coming out before Fall 2014 at the earliest.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 17, 2013, 11:45:55 PM
If Nintendo wants to win in this generation then they need to break out the war chest and start funding games from fledling developers and start reaching out to strategic third party developers to support the Wii U. They can not afford to sit on the fence and support casual games and expect the hardcore fanbase to want the Wii U.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: azeke on May 18, 2013, 02:54:07 AM
The rising cost of game development could work in Nintendo's favor. If game companies can not find a way to drive costs down of the next five to ten years then a significant portion of the game industry will go bankrupt.
It's kinda sad when Nintendo fans start hoping for a new gaming crash hoping for Nintendo look good in comparison to others who are simply dropping dead.
Many independent and mid-tier developers will look to consoles that are the cheapest to make games for.
Because that's what totally happened with Wii. Also there are no middle ground anymore.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 18, 2013, 08:39:41 AM
My hope for the coming generation is that the big publishers will destroy themselves with their blockbuster philosophy and the indies will continue to grow.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: shingi_70 on May 18, 2013, 10:15:12 AM
My hope for the coming generation is that the big publishers will destroy themselves with their blockbuster philosophy and the indies will continue to grow.
But than the ndies would jut take their place and t would be a self perpetuating cycle. Honestly at this point the AAA game industry is too big to fail like the film industry.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Fjurbanski on May 18, 2013, 10:27:22 AM
The industry itself is too big to fail, yes, but EA, Square, and other companies are not.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Caterkiller on May 18, 2013, 12:29:44 PM
Despite Sakurai's crippling condition I would assume with Namco they are having the easiest time as far as next gen Nintendo development.
What Nintendo needs to do is just release a consistent flow of good games and keep rattling cages. So far we have Bayonetta 2 and Sonic Lost World. Both of which have been causing melt downs. Doesn't matter how little they sale or how questionable the quality could be, they got people pissed off and talking. I expect at least one more of these at E3 and many more throughout the generation.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 18, 2013, 01:04:31 PM
My hope for the coming generation is that the big publishers will destroy themselves with their blockbuster philosophy and the indies will continue to grow.
Think of it as a ship sinking and Nintendo is the only rescue ship nearby for help. If you are familiar with the concept of Social Darwinism then you will realize that a massive culling of the gaming industry is going to occur in the next couple of years. Companies like EA and Sqaure Enix will not survive in their current form. It is going to get nasty and unforgiving.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 18, 2013, 02:32:40 PM
I agree with Kytim89. The production cost of most retail games is going to exceed their potential market, leading to massive losses on the part of the big publishers.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 18, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
and thus indies are the future...
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Sarail on May 18, 2013, 02:41:53 PM
All of these new indie studios are very reminiscent of when all the big boys were start-up devs for NES/SNES gens. So, I wholeheartedly welcome them in.
I really do want to see EA die in a fire, though. They're a scourge to this industry. I hope this next gen and crazy expensive game development causes them to implode. The fireworks in the sky are going to be fun to watch.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 18, 2013, 02:57:26 PM
When you have to sell five million copies to break even, there is going to be a lot of flops.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 18, 2013, 03:23:29 PM
I do not want EA to go bankrupt, however, I would like to see them get into a financial situation where their business attitude that has made them famous has to be put aside for them to survive.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Sarail on May 18, 2013, 03:36:03 PM
I do not want EA to go bankrupt, however, I would like to see them get into a financial situation where their business attitude that has made them famous has to be put aside for them to survive.
I do...because I feel it's the only way there will be competition again in the sports genre of games. Not that I care for American football, but EA having the sole rights/license to make NFL games is ridiculous. Any studio should be able to make an NFL game. ANY.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 18, 2013, 03:51:59 PM
EA makes the best hockey and soccer games, bar none. I'm going to buy NHL 14 and FIFA 14 this year despite my hatred of EA because those games are so damn good.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 18, 2013, 04:11:11 PM
Hey Insanolord, you see the sweet Hockey action in The new Mario and Sonic Olympics?
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Fjurbanski on May 18, 2013, 06:26:26 PM
Ain't no hockey like Delfino Plaza hockey.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Sarail on May 18, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
HITZ GET.
EDIT: J.P., yeah, I definitely would, too, this year, but I have a busted PS3. And I, honestly, would rather spend my money this late summer/fall on Nintendo's offerings and any third party offerings on Wii U/3DS than fixing my PS3. If EA would bring NHL and FIFA to Wii U this fall, I'd definitely pick up those as well. But... ya know. :-\
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on May 18, 2013, 09:00:20 PM
ShyGuy: Yes, we all know Nintendo needs that killer hit. But Pikmin 3 is not that hit. I believe that hit will be whatever Retro is working on...
I don't know if I'd pin my hopes on Retro at this point. Haven't most of the people responsible for the excellent Prime games already jumped ship? DKCR is a decent game, but that and a couple of Mario Kart 7 levels don't exactly establish Retro in its current state as a powerhouse studio in my mind.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Rubber Band AI on May 20, 2013, 12:26:32 PM
"Next gen" is a term that used to be factual and has turned into a term bros use to justify new hardware. I am no longer a bro, and a machine's power does not define its "next gen"-ness to me. I think Nintendo thinks similarly, which is why they've abandoned the great hardware arms race in favor of unique experiences and tight gameplay.
Factually, the Wii U is their next gen console. Whether or not bros agree with that is irrelevant. It will have the games I want to play. That is all that matters. And hey, the games look better than any other console I own (including Xbox 360, by a long shot). I really am not sure what the problem is, other than we are still waiting for the killer apps.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 21, 2013, 02:00:34 PM
The NES was effectively the Big Bang for Japanese videogame development. Prior to that the Japanese videogame market was pretty much just arcades. There was no Atari 2600 or Intellivision or Colecovision in Japan. So all the best Japanese devs were young, hungry and creative back then. I can see why one would want another crash to clear out the old dinosaurs. But here's the problem: Nintendo is one of the dinosaurs. They're trying to sell the Wii U on a cookie-cutter 2D Mario game and mini-game compilation. While they're making better stuff than contemporaries like Sega and Square Enix, they're not really cutting it. The Japanese gaming industry has just gone so far down the shitter that Nintendo is the best by merely being okay. If there is a crash Nintendo is going down too.
Nintendo's creative output is so generic these days that they're either old men afraid to do anything but the safe bet or they're creatively bankrupt and are relying on shallow controller gimmicks to provide the illusion of a new experience. Nintendo is not young, hungry and creative like the indies. They are old corporate giants and if they survived a crash it would be entirely because of their good financial planning but they wouldn't be leading some new gaming revolution. Don't confuse what Nintendo was (and realistically what Sega, Square, Capcom, Konami, etc. were) for what they currently are. They are not the flagbearers of creativity and innovation in game design. They're a conservative company that makes safe product for the mass market.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ThePerm on May 21, 2013, 02:35:01 PM
So apparently the Xbox One processor is only 1.6 ghz in clockspeed. The xbox 360 processor has twice the clockspeed. The reason why they can get away with this? Out of Order Execution... Does that sound familiar to anybody? :D
the xbox one has 8 cores while the wii u has 3 though... still we will have some lazy devlopers complain about it. They will complain until the more amazing looking games come out.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ymeegod on May 21, 2013, 03:42:45 PM
As for as I know Xbox One is cpu is still In Order. OOE really only had an advantage when there was only one core/thread but nowadays it's all about multicores and threading which is why 0oOE was dropped in the 90's by IBM--doesn't make any sense with modern processors.
MS still haven't released on specs on the CPU though--most of the stuff is just leaks which "might" be true.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ceric on May 21, 2013, 04:35:41 PM
The NES was effectively the Big Bang for Japanese videogame development. Prior to that the Japanese videogame market was pretty much just arcades. There was no Atari 2600 or Intellivision or Colecovision in Japan. So all the best Japanese devs were young, hungry and creative back then. I can see why one would want another crash to clear out the old dinosaurs. But here's the problem: Nintendo is one of the dinosaurs. They're trying to sell the Wii U on a cookie-cutter 2D Mario game and mini-game compilation. While they're making better stuff than contemporaries like Sega and Square Enix, they're not really cutting it. The Japanese gaming industry has just gone so far down the shitter that Nintendo is the best by merely being okay. If there is a crash Nintendo is going down too.
Nintendo's creative output is so generic these days that they're either old men afraid to do anything but the safe bet or they're creatively bankrupt and are relying on shallow controller gimmicks to provide the illusion of a new experience. Nintendo is not young, hungry and creative like the indies. They are old corporate giants and if they survived a crash it would be entirely because of their good financial planning but they wouldn't be leading some new gaming revolution. Don't confuse what Nintendo was (and realistically what Sega, Square, Capcom, Konami, etc. were) for what they currently are. They are not the flagbearers of creativity and innovation in game design. They're a conservative company that makes safe product for the mass market.
And what makes Microsoft and Sony any different
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 21, 2013, 06:57:35 PM
The NES was effectively the Big Bang for Japanese videogame development. Prior to that the Japanese videogame market was pretty much just arcades. There was no Atari 2600 or Intellivision or Colecovision in Japan. So all the best Japanese devs were young, hungry and creative back then. I can see why one would want another crash to clear out the old dinosaurs. But here's the problem: Nintendo is one of the dinosaurs. They're trying to sell the Wii U on a cookie-cutter 2D Mario game and mini-game compilation. While they're making better stuff than contemporaries like Sega and Square Enix, they're not really cutting it. The Japanese gaming industry has just gone so far down the shitter that Nintendo is the best by merely being okay. If there is a crash Nintendo is going down too.
Nintendo's creative output is so generic these days that they're either old men afraid to do anything but the safe bet or they're creatively bankrupt and are relying on shallow controller gimmicks to provide the illusion of a new experience. Nintendo is not young, hungry and creative like the indies. They are old corporate giants and if they survived a crash it would be entirely because of their good financial planning but they wouldn't be leading some new gaming revolution. Don't confuse what Nintendo was (and realistically what Sega, Square, Capcom, Konami, etc. were) for what they currently are. They are not the flagbearers of creativity and innovation in game design. They're a conservative company that makes safe product for the mass market.
And what makes Microsoft and Sony any different
I didn't say they weren't. Hell, they were never a young, hungry, creative videogame company. They were already big corporations that joined the scene after others set the groundwork.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Soren on May 21, 2013, 07:11:06 PM
Maybe if they get their act together Nintendo and Wii U can make next Gen more user and consumer friendly. Because Microsoft sure isn't trying to do it with Xbox One.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on May 22, 2013, 06:34:39 PM
That's just it - they don't need to be different, because they have a bunch of 3rd party western developers that ARE different and that are hungry to develop games for their platforms. If Microsoft puts out a great Halo game, then that's awesome - but if they only put out crap, XBox One owners can still count on Bethesda and Bioware and other creative powerhouses to deliver their best work on the system. With the Wii U, it's looking more and more like owners will be completely dependent on Nintendo (or Sega *shudder*) to satiate their gaming desires, which is impossible given the varied tastes of gamers.
Think about trying to appeal to the next generation of young gamers (which every new console generation obviously needs to do) - how many 7-14 year olds are going to forego all sports and more mature games in order to play Mario, Sonic and Zelda, and how many of them have parents who would be willing to buy a Wii U in addition to one of the other expensive next-gen consoles? Those characters don't have the nostalgic appeal for younger gamers that they have for us old farts - and all the 'cool kids' are going to want to play the latest Madden or Call of Duty. Nintendo is in big trouble - big trouble indeed.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 22, 2013, 06:44:21 PM
Those are concerns, but at the same time a lot of that could be said about every Nintendo console since the N64. Nintendo has never had the best version of sports games, and has only once had the best FPS games. Their absence hurts, but it's not as huge of a deal as it might seem.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 22, 2013, 07:35:13 PM
That's just it - they don't need to be different, because they have a bunch of 3rd party western developers that ARE different and that are hungry to develop games for their platforms. If Microsoft puts out a great Halo game, then that's awesome - but if they only put out crap, XBox One owners can still count on Bethesda and Bioware and other creative powerhouses to deliver their best work on the system. With the Wii U, it's looking more and more like owners will be completely dependent on Nintendo (or Sega *shudder*) to satiate their gaming desires, which is impossible given the varied tastes of gamers.
Think about trying to appeal to the next generation of young gamers (which every new console generation obviously needs to do) - how many 7-14 year olds are going to forego all sports and more mature games in order to play Mario, Sonic and Zelda, and how many of them have parents who would be willing to buy a Wii U in addition to one of the other expensive next-gen consoles? Those characters don't have the nostalgic appeal for younger gamers that they have for us old farts - and all the 'cool kids' are going to want to play the latest Madden or Call of Duty. Nintendo is in big trouble - big trouble indeed.
You say that as if this past gen wasn't completely flooded by western shooters on the PS3/360...
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ceric on May 22, 2013, 07:37:05 PM
We talking 7-14 year olds right? From my experience they could care less for Sports and as a parent you bet I'm not letting my Son play anything rated M that I haven't vetted.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 22, 2013, 07:40:48 PM
We talking 7-14 year olds right? From my experience they could care less for Sports and as a parent you bet I'm not letting my Son play anything rated M that I haven't vetted.
i am close enough to that age group to no that neither of those things happened,
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: nickmitch on May 22, 2013, 08:18:02 PM
I think it's different when your parents are gamers. They're more likely to pay attention to the stuff and not just put every videogame in the same category.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 22, 2013, 10:04:59 PM
but kids will find ways regardless...
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 22, 2013, 10:08:02 PM
Not at that age, and especially not if the parent isn't lazy and incompetent (unless they sneak off to someone else's house, but you can't control everything).
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 22, 2013, 10:48:45 PM
as you get past ten yes at that age. I remember in 7th grade people were making a big deal over having gotten GTA4. the closer you get to that age-group the more you find that the ESRB is a joke
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 22, 2013, 10:57:33 PM
GTA IV in 7th grade? Geez, that makes me feel old. I was in 7th grade in 1998/99, 3 years before GTA even became popular.
And this is why more parents should be responsible, there is no way in hell I would let my 12 year old kid play something as violent as GTA; and I would not let willingly let them hang out with kids whose parents would let them.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 23, 2013, 12:32:52 AM
Nintendo should come out and declare to the gaming industry that it is okay to play used games on their systems.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: alegoicoe on May 23, 2013, 01:36:17 AM
Nintendo should come out and declare to the gaming industry that it is okay to play used games on their systems.
That, and brag about how easy it is for indie developers to self publish titles on the system.
Set up a big trust fund for potential indie developers to to finance their games as a gesture of good will towards them for supporting your consoles.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 23, 2013, 02:08:55 AM
They should definitely court indie developers, and have been doing so significantly recently, but Sony's been doing that a lot lately as well so I'm not sure how effective a strategy it'll be for Nintendo.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 23, 2013, 02:20:58 AM
Indies are growing in capabilty. By the end of next gen, an Indie game will be A level quality from this gen.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on May 23, 2013, 02:23:39 AM
Arguably, the Wii U is in a worse state now than the 3DS was at this same point in it's lifecycle. Perhaps Nintendo could announce a price drop some time in September or October. There would then be an even starker contrast between the price point of Wii U and the likely cost of Sony and Microsoft's new consoles. I mean, retailers have been cutting the price of the Wii U pretty much since it launched and it appears that US retailers are now following suit. I'd feel far happier about not having any significant third party support if I could buy the Wii U at a cheaper price point and think of it as my Nintendo platform.
From my own perspective, Nintendo need to either release a game that I can't life without (think Metroid Prime 4, Super Mario Galaxy 3, or a new AAA IP from Miyamoto) or they need to drop the price.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: alegoicoe on May 23, 2013, 02:52:58 AM
Arguably, the Wii U is in a worse state now than the 3DS was at this same point in it's lifecycle. Perhaps Nintendo could announce a price drop some time in September or October. There would then be an even starker contrast between the price point of Wii U and the likely cost of Sony and Microsoft's new consoles. I mean, retailers have been cutting the price of the Wii U pretty much since it launched and it appears that US retailers are now following suit. I'd feel far happier about not having any significant third party support if I could buy the Wii U at a cheaper price point and think of it as my Nintendo platform.
From my own perspective, Nintendo need to either release a game that I can't life without (think Metroid Prime 4, Super Mario Galaxy 3, or a new AAA IP from Miyamoto) or they need to drop the price.
How about a price drop and a bunch of triple AAA games both from Nintendo and third parties, am sure Nintendo has something up their sleeve to increse both sales and game production now that all of the next gen systems have been announced.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on May 23, 2013, 11:06:08 AM
GTA IV in 7th grade? Geez, that makes me feel old. I was in 7th grade in 1998/99, 3 years before GTA even became popular.
And this is why more parents should be responsible, there is no way in hell I would let my 12 year old kid play something as violent as GTA; and I would not let willingly let them hang out with kids whose parents would let them.
I think you're forgetting what it was like to be a kid, or you lived a far more sheltered childhood than most of us did. I am older than you, but I can remember playing Mortal Kombat on the Genesis as a kid and knowing that it was the better version because the SNES didn't have blood. My friends and I also played the heck out of the 90s NHL games on Genesis, so sports games definitely resonate with a lot of kids as well. The point I was making is having a diverse library is important, because the user base you are targeting is diverse. Also, having M rated games, even if the kid can't get them, will make the console seem 'cool'; and being 'cool' is of utmost importance around that age.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on May 23, 2013, 11:11:29 AM
Those are concerns, but at the same time a lot of that could be said about every Nintendo console since the N64. Nintendo has never had the best version of sports games, and has only once had the best FPS games. Their absence hurts, but it's not as huge of a deal as it might seem.
True - but this generation is different in that they have 2 extremely capable competitors and they don't have any gimmicks that resonate with consumers like the Wii had. Check out the overall platform stats: http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/
Nintendo had extremely low sales for the Gamecube, and if they have another generation like that with the steadily rising cost of game development it puts them in a very bad position indeed. If I were a Nintendo investor, after watching 2 botched console launches and what looks to be a terrible miscalculation for the Wii U on technical specs, features and marketing, I would be calling for Iwata to step down immediately.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on May 23, 2013, 12:41:01 PM
I thought VGChartz was notorious for having shady stats. Best not to cite them as a source.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ThePerm on May 23, 2013, 02:36:35 PM
Nintendo has better specs in some regards to the other platforms
Wii U could have 2-3 ZMS units
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on May 23, 2013, 05:54:12 PM
How about a price drop and a bunch of triple AAA games both from Nintendo and third parties...
If that were the case then I'd be exceedingly happy about buying a Wii U. As it is though, I just don't see the point; and if I, a huge Nintendo fan, am not seeing the point, then clearly something enticing needs to be offered. Ideally I would like to see all the things you mention, but realistically I'd take any one of them at this point.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Caterkiller on May 23, 2013, 10:12:27 PM
as you get past ten yes at that age. I remember in 7th grade people were making a big deal over having gotten GTA4. the closer you get to that age-group the more you find that the ESRB is a joke
7th grade when GTA4 came out? That explains everything.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 23, 2013, 10:14:16 PM
as you get past ten yes at that age. I remember in 7th grade people were making a big deal over having gotten GTA4. the closer you get to that age-group the more you find that the ESRB is a joke
7th grade when GTA4 came out? That explains everything.
har har,
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: MagicCow64 on May 23, 2013, 10:46:56 PM
How about a price drop and a bunch of triple AAA games both from Nintendo and third parties...
If that were the case then I'd be exceedingly happy about buying a Wii U. As it is though, I just don't see the point; and if I, a huge Nintendo fan, am not seeing the point, then clearly something enticing needs to be offered. Ideally I would like to see all the things you mention, but realistically I'd take any one of them at this point.
For reasons I don't entirely understand, I bought a Wii U today through the Target $239.99 basic unit special. I had had no plans to do so in the near future, but something about the Xbone reveal seemed to confirm that the industry is getting greasy real fast, and that I won't at any point be interested in a PS4 or One. And $250 feels like the right price for this thing.
I've also been out of a console for about a year since I sold my 360 and my Wii's drive broke. So I was excited just to have a machine again (haven't had a gap since I was 5). I figure I'll have enough Wii U stuff to play through this summer, and presumably there'll be a good fall line up. At this point if Nintendo flames out, I think there'll be a lot of other **** going down as well, so I'm going to stop worrying about it and try to get my money's worth out of the U.
Plusses after 4 or 5 hours: Controller is pretty neat, really. I like the OS: nice and clean, but the Miiverse stuff gives an organic sense to proceedings (hate what the 360 became). eShop is a hell of a lot better than the Wii Shop. NSMBU looks surprisingly great on an HD screen, and AC III looks considerably better than the last 360 AC game I played.
Minuses: Left stick feels too far up. Controller screen looks a bit fuzzy. Needless reversal of now standard X/Y A/B buttons.
Confusion: How exactly does offscreen play work? I assumed there'd be a button on the controller that would toggle this. There's no way it can detect TV input, right? I just booted up the controller without turning on the TV and ended up playing Runner 2 for 20 minutes with headphones plugged in, and it was seamless. But do other games make you change a setting? For such a vaunted selling point, this should be clearer.
Overall, though, I'm digging it, and I'm prepared to ride it down to senescence if need be. I'm taking comfort in the fact that this is probably the last console that won't be an over-extended multimedia nickel-and-dime shitshow. If there are 6-8 games (either eShop or retail) a year that I want to play on the WiiU for the next 4 years, I'll consider it's duty done.
More to the point of the thread, I'm about as diehard Nintendo as you get, and despite the generally alarmed atmosphere, I kinda just succumbed to entropy while fully sympathizing with reasonable arguments about why this thing's doomed. Que sera, sera!
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 24, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Yeah, certain games have an option in their settings to go to off screen play.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Enner on May 24, 2013, 03:41:55 AM
Needless reversal of now standard X/Y A/B buttons.
Microsoft must be happy with the ubiquity of the face buttons on their controller if Nintendo is repeatedly causing annoyance with the button labeling they have used for the SNES and used again for the DS, 3DS, Wii classic controller, and Wii U controllers.
Nearly 8 Years (12 if you count the original Xbox)!
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 24, 2013, 04:46:58 AM
Yeah, if you want to call somebody out for reversing the buttons it should be Microsoft (and/or Sega, who did the same thing as Microsoft two years earlier on the Dreamcast). Surprisingly that's never been an issue for me despite spending significant time with the 360 and with the DS/3DS/Wii Classic Controller/Wii U.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on May 24, 2013, 01:37:50 PM
but the old overall platform lifetime totals are probably close to accurate.
Only to a very small extent, I still would not use them for any numbers. Part of it is because Nintendo only reports sales numbers for a game that sells at least 250K copies in a quarter. So a game can sell 200K copies and Nintendo will not include it in their financial reports.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on May 24, 2013, 04:06:58 PM
The Spyke Has Spoken!
"And the Spyke saw that the VGChartz was cited, and the citer, being naughty in The Spyke's sight, was Smote, and yea, there was the Feasting and Offerings"
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 24, 2013, 06:33:58 PM
but the old overall platform lifetime totals are probably close to accurate.
Only to a very small extent, I still would not use them for any numbers. Part of it is because Nintendo only reports sales numbers for a game that sells at least 250K copies in a quarter. So a game can sell 200K copies and Nintendo will not include it in their financial reports.
So where do you get your numbers?
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 24, 2013, 06:37:53 PM
but the old overall platform lifetime totals are probably close to accurate.
Only to a very small extent, I still would not use them for any numbers. Part of it is because Nintendo only reports sales numbers for a game that sells at least 250K copies in a quarter. So a game can sell 200K copies and Nintendo will not include it in their financial reports.
So where do you get your numbers?
What numbers? When I DO use numbers, I find ones that are confirmed by a reliable source (i.e. Nintendo itself, or IGN/GameSpot/etc.).
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 24, 2013, 07:04:07 PM
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 24, 2013, 07:15:07 PM
No, VG Chartz does NOT get NPD. If they did, they wouldn't be so vastly off.
Do you really think anyone from VG Chartz is gonna fork over the $25,000 a month fee NPD charges? Especially knowing they will publish all the numbers? NPD started cracking down on sites that just released the top TEN games, you really think they would let VG Chartz publish ALL the numbers? VGC gets their NPD the same way we do, from sites that actually DO get the numbers.
What VGC does is call a few game stores in their area and then guess the numbers. They will change their guess once real data comes out, but they don't have any more access than you or I.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on May 25, 2013, 01:27:34 AM
Only to a very small extent, I still would not use them for any numbers. Part of it is because Nintendo only reports sales numbers for a game that sells at least 250K copies in a quarter. So a game can sell 200K copies and Nintendo will not include it in their financial reports.
Again, if you look at the link I posted and my comment, I wasn't referring at all to game sales figures. I was only referencing platform hardware sales totals, and I'm sure they have roughly accurate numbers for total sales of the NES, SNES, N64, GC, etc., although if you have a source that greatly differs from their totals I'd be interested to see it.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: nickmitch on May 25, 2013, 01:41:48 AM
Spyke is right about IGN getting NPD numbers. They would be the ones to pay for that sort of thing. You can't trust IGN on more subjective things like reviews and opinions. Hell, they even had that Halo DS rumor thing right. Remember the video? I'm not gonna google it because I'm lazy.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: latchet5 on May 27, 2013, 04:57:53 PM
what can Nintendo do you ask? They can release a Legend of Zelda game, then Wii U sales will go through the roof. Just sayin'
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Oblivion on May 27, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
Yeah, it only needs one first party game! JUST SAYIN'! Because everybody loves The Legend of Zelda right?!?!
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 27, 2013, 06:54:01 PM
Funny/despressing story: a co-worker of mine noticed me looking at an animated gif making fun of the Xbox One and noted that he has seen the same gif and this naturally led to a conversation about the next gen. We talked about the Wii U and he mentioned that he has one but is struggling to find anything to play on it. Then he dropped this nugget:
Him: So is Nintendo releasing a new console? Me: Well the Wii U is only a few months old so they're not going to replace it soon. Him: Oh, so the Wii U is Nintendo's next gen?
So, yeah, in his mind I guess he figured the Wii U was Nintendo's belated answer to the PS3 and Xbox 360 and that it was some stopgap until the "real" console that would compete with the XB1 and PS4 would come out. He seemed legitimately caught off guard that the Wii U was it.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on May 27, 2013, 07:38:59 PM
what can Nintendo do you ask? They can release a Legend of Zelda game, then Wii U sales will go through the roof. Just sayin'
Was that a joke? I recall hearing that Skyward Sword didn't sell all that well - certainly didn't do anywhere near the numbers that New Super Mario Bros. did on Wii.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: nickmitch on May 27, 2013, 08:29:01 PM
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 27, 2013, 08:46:47 PM
Clicking the link brought me back down to earth - 3.4 million for Skyward Sword...I nearly shat my pants just looking at the URL.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: nickmitch on May 27, 2013, 08:57:31 PM
LOL! I probably should've noticed that.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: cubist on May 29, 2013, 01:23:11 AM
Smash and Kart will move units.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 29, 2013, 01:31:56 AM
I'm not sure Mario Kart will do that much. Have we seen numbers on the 3DS version? This one's likely to be rushed like MK7 was, so I wouldn't expect anything groundbreaking from it. Smash Bros. will sell hardware, but I can't see any way that's coming before the end of the fiscal year, and after that it would be too late if something else hadn't come earlier.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 29, 2013, 01:37:34 AM
I'm not sure Mario Kart will do that much. Have we seen numbers on the 3DS version?
According to Nintendo, Mario Kart 7 has sold 8.08 million copies (which makes it the 2nd best selling 3DS game according to Wikipedia): http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/3ds.html
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 29, 2013, 02:11:48 AM
Well then I guess it probably did do something for the hardware. Still, I hope they've got more than that to bring in the crowds. As amazing as EAD Tokyo's Mario games are, they haven't proven to be mass market hits the way the 2D games are.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 29, 2013, 02:12:05 AM
What if Nintendo goes ahead and makes Mario Kart 8 for the Wii U and then does something similar to Super Luigi U where Nintendo releases the base Kart game and the makes a DLC game called "Smash Kart" that essentially Smash Brothers meets Mario Kart. It would have all of Nintendo and SEGA's IPs concentrated into one race, and perhaps Sumo Digital could develop it for Nintendo.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 29, 2013, 02:24:39 AM
I think Mario Kart 8/U/Whatever getting DLC in the form of new characters and tracks is pretty likely, though I wouldn't go as far as you're suggesting.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 30, 2013, 08:07:43 AM
i think the system will need a price drop to compete with subsidy models of the xbone(and ps4)
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 30, 2013, 08:17:10 AM
I really don't think we're going to see a price drop before the end of the fiscal year. I think Nintendo really regrets how quickly and sharply they dropped the 3DS price and are going to be very hesitant to bring down the Wii U's. I also can't see there being a huge market for the subsidized Xbox One.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Adrock on May 30, 2013, 08:53:16 AM
Wii U's main issue is its shortage of games rather than its value. It's already sold at a loss. The Wii U Deluxe Set is a good price for what's in the box. I could see Nintendo dropping the price of the Basic Set just to move those units or begin phasing it out now that they're readying a white Deluxe Set.
Many perceived 3DS as overpriced especially after Nintendo practically admitted to hiking up the price due to positive feedback at E3. That said, I still feel that 3DS needed a price drop though $80 was perhaps too steep of one. Worked out for me though.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 30, 2013, 09:14:39 AM
I think they needed to drop the 3DS price, but I think once the games were there it would have been fine to only bring it down to $200 instead of going all the way to $170. They overreacted when the main issue was lack of software, and I think that's what they're trying to avoid right now with the Wii U.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Adrock on May 30, 2013, 09:34:33 AM
I agree though I probably wouldn't have bought one at $200 even with the Ambassador Games so no complaints on my part.
If Nintendo does drop the price of Wii U, it definitely won't be $80.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 30, 2013, 09:39:42 AM
The Wii U 8GB version might be sold at a loss, but they make up for it with the overprices 32GB version. I bought one...but it definitely doesn't cost an extra $100 to upgrade 8GB flash to 32GB, print a disc, and throw in a charging stand.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 30, 2013, 09:45:38 AM
It was such a slim loss (buying even one game along with it made you a profitable customer to Nintendo) that they're probably already making money on them by this point.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Adrock on May 30, 2013, 10:00:29 AM
but it definitely doesn't cost an extra $100 to upgrade 8GB flash to 32GB, print a disc, and throw in a charging stand.
If the difference between the Basic and Deluxe Sets was $100, I would have strongly considered the Basic Set.
The Deluxe Set extras probably don't cost Nintendo $50. The cost of buying those separately is certainly more than $50 though.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 30, 2013, 11:05:16 AM
I thought it was $250/350...my bad.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: shingi_70 on May 30, 2013, 12:29:34 PM
Nintendo just needs to show off games and give people a reason to buy the system. I'd disagree with insanolord about a subsidized Console not garnering that much marketshare.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: MagicCow64 on May 30, 2013, 01:58:19 PM
With that $240 Target sale, there was no way I was going to consider shelling out an extra $100 for the deluxe set. If they do anything with price cuts, I imagine it'll be putting the basic at $250 to run out the stock and then just have deluxe sets with maybe a few different pack-in game options.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: ThePerm on May 30, 2013, 02:39:40 PM
as Shinji_70 says. All they need to do is have some games available for the system. If Wii taught us anything really, its that graphics don't matter. That being said I want games with good graphics. Nintendo should deliver though. Wind Waker remake looks great, and so did that Zelda Demo(2 years ago). Shadow of the Eternals looks great, and you folks should fund it(dont let bad business news get in the way of art) (see link in signature). Whatever Retro is working on is probably amazing, just by the pedgree.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: shingi_70 on May 31, 2013, 04:27:28 PM
A price cut and a decent amount of new software will do the system well. The problem is that Nintendo put a ton of 3DS software into the pipeline while knowing the Wii U was probably going to suffer the same problem. It didn't help for various reasons launch windows software got pushed back for whatever reasons. So far to be released New Super Luigi U June 20th Game and Wario June 23rd Wii Party U TBA summer Wii Fit U TBA Pikmin 3 August 4th The Wonderful 101 September 15th
That's a good summer line up but a few of those game should have been out earlier. I think now they need to focus on the their titles on the fall and invest in more internal developed eshop games.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on May 31, 2013, 04:29:12 PM
a good late summer lineup in fairness...
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on May 31, 2013, 05:39:51 PM
A price cut and a decent amount of new software will do the system well. The problem is that Nintendo put a ton of 3DS software into the pipeline while knowing the Wii U was probably going to suffer the same problem. It didn't help for various reasons launch windows software got pushed back for whatever reasons. So far to be released New Super Luigi U June 20th Game and Wario June 23rd Wii Party U TBA summer Wii Fit U TBA Pikmin 3 August 4th The Wonderful 101 September 15th
That's a good summer line up but a few of those game should have been out earlier. I think now they need to focus on the their titles on the fall and invest in more internal developed eshop games.
I don't see any of those titles driving hardware purchases, and once Fall hits no one is going to pay attention to the Wii U. Nintendo better hope both Sony and Microsoft have terrible launch lineups and/or hardware shortages this holiday season...
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: shingi_70 on May 31, 2013, 06:40:09 PM
They might not drive hardware but they'll keep the core Nintendo fan sated until Nintendo can soft reboot the console this fall. A big problem the 3DS had in its first year was dire support for the first summer it launched. Now the next step is getting content out along with a price drop ready for the fall. The only game that's been a truly missed opportunity at launch has been Wii Fit U being delayed when it would have done much better at launch or earlier this year. I think Nintendo's marketing really has to go through an overall and maybe the bundles they offer. They should advertise their online systems much more and even incentive the bundles a bit more to enforce the Wii U being able to go online. I was talking too a buddy last week about next gen and the new consoles and he brought up the fact that the One and PS4 can share video and screenshots. He was pretty surprised when told him that the Wii U was already capable of sharing screenshots. Nintendo has a lot of features on the Wii U that they don't advertise and Microsoft and Sony will push the hell out of their similar features. (http://asset2.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim2/2013/05/21/Trending.jpg) I mean the above screenshot is just a boring version of Wara Wara plaza and probably doesn't display as much information. (not sure if the one supports live tiles)
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Drizzt on June 02, 2013, 10:55:18 AM
When I went to Kmart yesterday I discovered a new Wii U marketing campaign. On the counter in the electronics department was a box that said free take one. Inside the box was a 31 page illustrated book that explains what the Wii U is, what it does, the services it provides, the games (descriptions of the games are given as well) , the differences between the two models, a comparison chart between the Wii U and the Wii and a list of FAQs.
This has to be pretty current since Lego City Undercover and Wii Street U are listed as available now.
It's nice to see Nintendo trying to inform potential customers.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on June 02, 2013, 02:20:59 PM
I think they needed to drop the 3DS price, but I think once the games were there it would have been fine to only bring it down to $200 instead of going all the way to $170. They overreacted when the main issue was lack of software, and I think that's what they're trying to avoid right now with the Wii U.
I think they needed to get the base unit to $170 so the XL could be under $200. I think that is the key point for consumers and that the XL sells better. I know if a sub $200 XL didn't exist I wouldn't own a 3ds.
Quote
With that $240 Target sale, there was no way I was going to consider shelling out an extra $100 for the deluxe set. If they do anything with price cuts, I imagine it'll be putting the basic at $250 to run out the stock and then just have deluxe sets with maybe a few different pack-in game options.
I know I'm the old now and out of touch.... but I don't see how you can use the basic without buying a $70 external hard drive. I'm buying all retail discs and downloading only VC and Wii U Ware titles and I expect the 32 gig to hold up for the life of the unit. We'll see how much dlc gets released, maybe I'm too optimistic. To me the extra space is worth $70. Then you have the other add-ons which aren't too bad.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Oblivion on June 02, 2013, 03:19:03 PM
When I went to Kmart yesterday I discovered a new Wii U marketing campaign. On the counter in the electronics department was a box that said free take one. Inside the box was a 31 page illustrated book that explains what the Wii U is, what it does, the services it provides, the games (descriptions of the games are given as well) , the differences between the two models, a comparison chart between the Wii U and the Wii and a list of FAQs.
This has to be pretty current since Lego City Undercover and Wii Street U are listed as available now.
It's nice to see Nintendo trying to inform potential customers.
Wait, what? My store doesn't have these. :(
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: MagicCow64 on June 02, 2013, 03:54:39 PM
I think they needed to drop the 3DS price, but I think once the games were there it would have been fine to only bring it down to $200 instead of going all the way to $170. They overreacted when the main issue was lack of software, and I think that's what they're trying to avoid right now with the Wii U.
I think they needed to get the base unit to $170 so the XL could be under $200. I think that is the key point for consumers and that the XL sells better. I know if a sub $200 XL didn't exist I wouldn't own a 3ds.
Quote
With that $240 Target sale, there was no way I was going to consider shelling out an extra $100 for the deluxe set. If they do anything with price cuts, I imagine it'll be putting the basic at $250 to run out the stock and then just have deluxe sets with maybe a few different pack-in game options.
I know I'm the old now and out of touch.... but I don't see how you can use the basic without buying a $70 external hard drive. I'm buying all retail discs and downloading only VC and Wii U Ware titles and I expect the 32 gig to hold up for the life of the unit. We'll see how much dlc gets released, maybe I'm too optimistic. To me the extra space is worth $70. Then you have the other add-ons which aren't too bad.
Eh, I don't plan to download retail games and I'm pretty constitutionally opposed to DLC. If I fill up the existing space with eShop games or something I can just get a cheapo external to pad it out a bit. Although 8 gigs is a joke, so is 32 gigs at this point.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: shingi_70 on June 02, 2013, 08:54:29 PM
When I went to Kmart yesterday I discovered a new Wii U marketing campaign. On the counter in the electronics department was a box that said free take one. Inside the box was a 31 page illustrated book that explains what the Wii U is, what it does, the services it provides, the games (descriptions of the games are given as well) , the differences between the two models, a comparison chart between the Wii U and the Wii and a list of FAQs.
This has to be pretty current since Lego City Undercover and Wii Street U are listed as available now.
It's nice to see Nintendo trying to inform potential customers.
You mind posting pics?
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: nickmitch on June 02, 2013, 09:20:37 PM
Whoa, be careful with that kind of request. You could end up getting the thread locked. ;)
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on June 03, 2013, 07:01:46 AM
Eh, I don't plan to download retail games and I'm pretty constitutionally opposed to DLC. If I fill up the existing space with eShop games or something I can just get a cheapo external to pad it out a bit. Although 8 gigs is a joke, so is 32 gigs at this point.
It's definitely a joke. I've been hard on Nintendo for not including a hard drive. It may cost marginally more $, but they make more selling a digital title than a retail title so they would recover the cost quickly. I did forget that an external thumb drive would work. They go up to 64 gig and are about $20-30. So that would be a decent cheap way to expand the memory for people like us that don't want an external hard drive and don't want to spend alot. I still think the 3 gig they give you with the basic is way too little. I have the 4 or 5 30 cent VC games, 6 or 7 demos, and Bit Trip Runner 2, and I only have 16 gig available on my deluxe.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Adrock on June 03, 2013, 10:16:04 AM
I may be able to get through this generation with 32 GB which has changed from a confident definitely before launch. Every retail game seems to require a patch right out of the box then subsequent patches. Additionally, I'm actually buying downloadable games. Trine 2 was almost 2 GB. I really want to support the indie game scene on Wii U since they're the third parties who damn about the console. If there's a retail version, I'll always get that. I currently have about 22 GB left after deleting Tank! Tank! Tank! which was awful.
I would have preferred a self-contained console with a hard drive bay, aesthetically and more importantly, for cat-proofing purposes (I am aware of the Y-cable solution). And isn't SATA faster than USB 2.0? I don't think I'd need much more than 32 GB if I ever went over so perhaps a thumb drive would suffice. Physically, they've become really small in size so I would probably forget it was even there.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: MagicCow64 on June 03, 2013, 02:37:44 PM
I went through the byzantine mess that was transferring my Wii content over to the WiiU, and realized I have tons of space on the SD card. Is there any way to save WiiU content onto that, or is that strictly for Wii mode? And if not, can this be patched in later? I'd much rather have stuff on SD than have a thumb drive sticking out of the back of the unit.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 03, 2013, 02:46:02 PM
I don't own a Wii U, but Nintendo's website says that the SD Card only works for Wii Mode. Well, they say it also can be used for saving a picture of your Mii and QR Code patterns for your Mii (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wiiu/en_na/system_external_storage.jsp?menu=general_info&submenu=wup-external-usb-storage).
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Rubber Band AI on June 19, 2013, 10:52:32 AM
Just throwing this out there: I had a few laptop hard drives laying around so I picked up a dual docking station for like $50 and use it for Wii U storage. Has worked out well for me, and so far I've downloaded all of my games except for Nintendo Land. I was pretty upset about the lack of internal storage due to my tendency to download games, but I was pleased with how easy it was to set up this unusual option.
Here's what I got: [size=78%]http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dual+Bay+Docking+Station+for+Most+Internal+SATA+Hard+Drives/9419596.p?id=1218102199901&skuId=9419596&st=hard%20drive%20docking%20station&cp=1&lp=2 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dual+Bay+Docking+Station+for+Most+Internal+SATA+Hard+Drives/9419596.p?id=1218102199901&skuId=9419596&st=hard%20drive%20docking%20station&cp=1&lp=2)[/size]
With any storage option make sure that you don't stretch the USB cable too far - the slightest tug will freeze your system consistently.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: Kytim89 on June 19, 2013, 04:45:08 PM
I mentioned in another post that Nintendo needs to be aggressive in order to be successful this generation. I thought that I would elaborate more in this thread since it fits the topic better. What I meant was that Nintendo needs to take necessary steps to ensure that they dominate this generation just like the previous one. First, they need to cut the price of the Wii U by fifty dollars to make the PS4 more expensive to potential buyers. Secondly, Nintendo needs to capture more third party support by offering to port games to the system themselves. This would encourage more support because there would be less risk for third party companies. Lastly, Nintendo needs to offer third parties more profit on digital games.
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: pokepal148 on June 19, 2013, 09:16:15 PM
i dont think 50$ is enough, it may take more like 70$ to completely undercut the ps4
Title: Re: The Wii U and next Gen: What can Nintendo do?
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on June 19, 2013, 09:25:14 PM
i dont think 50$ is enough, it may take more like 70$ to completely undercut the ps4
I sincerely like Nintendo and plan to be Wii U only for at least another year. Having said that, I don't think a price cut is going to convince people to buy a Wii U over a PS4 or Xbox 1. My friends that are PS/Xbox fans legitimately have no interest in even a $100 Wii U. Wii U doesn't have the shooter genre, the sports genre, or mainstream open world games like GTA. I grew up with Mario and nostalgically it still gets me somewhat excited to play NSMB U. It's not as groundbreaking anymore, but I love 2D platformers. We are getting to the point where young dads grew up with a PS2 and want to buy a PS4/Xbox 1 (spiritual successor) for their family.
The Wii U really needs to show value to those that would be interested in it. If games come, I think $50 will draw some interest in it. Forget the 100 mill that the Wii sold. Try to make the Wii U an and then console and get it to 50 million. Gamecube only sold 22 million. 50 million can make Nintendo a profit and be a success. They always act like they aren't competing against Microsoft/Sony anyway. We as Nintendo fans wish they would but they are really offering different experiences at this point.
