Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: marty on April 11, 2013, 11:40:48 AM
Title: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: marty on April 11, 2013, 11:40:48 AM
I just watched the Farcry:Blood Dragon trailer and I can't help but feel a little saddened by the "ironic" theme the game seems to be going for. I don't mind a little pushing against the 4th wall but it just looks like developers have no commitment to their content when they're constantly winking and nudging the player. You can't intentionally make something "its-so-bad-its-good"--it just sometimes happens. Letting players know you're in on the joke with "isn't-it-so-bad-it's-good" schtick just seems extra lame.
Things are ridiculous when they're done sincerely--absurdity functions only where there is authenticity. Maybe I just don't get ironic appreciation or whatever you want to call it because anytime a game breaks the 4th wall to call attention to one of itself, I feel taken out of the moment.
Retro/indie games seem most guilty of this but with FC:BD and DoubleDragon:Neon, it seems like fake-awesome! is getting some actual developer muscle put behind it. Conker's Bad Fur Day came out over 10 years ago. Meta-ironic ideas are long past fresh and purposing inadequacy/tropes/cliches in this fashion really sucks a lot of the fun out of a game. If a developer wants to be bold, that's great--highlighting failings this way isn't being bold though, it's being defensive.
Title: Re: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on April 11, 2013, 11:51:46 AM
Well, Double Dragon Neon was one of the most fun games I've ever played, so if that's what they're going for, then I say let the funny run hog wild.
Title: Re: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: azeke on April 11, 2013, 12:30:32 PM
Retro City Rampage is like that too, but i think it's developers guilt for not putting as much though into gameplay and levels as he did with references.
That retro thing is just a theme, you can wrap any gameplay around it, good or bad.
I'm pretty excited for Blood Dragon. It has already greatly amused me by it's trailer alone (and leaked cover and footage week earlier) so i am already pretty content with it.
Title: Re: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: Oblivion on April 11, 2013, 02:22:09 PM
I watched my friend play Blood Dragon yesterday, and honestly, it looks pretty fucking awesome.
It got leaked on the web a few days ago. And no, I didn't pirate myself, I don't have a computer that can run that beast of a game.
Title: Re: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: azeke on April 11, 2013, 02:50:21 PM
I just watched the Farcry:Blood Dragon trailer and I can't help but feel a little saddened by the "ironic" theme the game seems to be going for. I don't mind a little pushing against the 4th wall but it just looks like developers have no commitment to their content when they're constantly winking and nudging the player. You can't intentionally make something "its-so-bad-its-good"--it just sometimes happens. Letting players know you're in on the joke with "isn't-it-so-bad-it's-good" schtick just seems extra lame.
Things are ridiculous when they're done sincerely--absurdity functions only where there is authenticity. Maybe I just don't get ironic appreciation or whatever you want to call it because anytime a game breaks the 4th wall to call attention to one of itself, I feel taken out of the moment.
Retro/indie games seem most guilty of this but with FC:BD and DoubleDragon:Neon, it seems like fake-awesome! is getting some actual developer muscle put behind it. Conker's Bad Fur Day came out over 10 years ago. Meta-ironic ideas are long past fresh and purposing inadequacy/tropes/cliches in this fashion really sucks a lot of the fun out of a game. If a developer wants to be bold, that's great--highlighting failings this way isn't being bold though, it's being defensive.
It isn't irony when you set out to make a game that way. In the Case of Dragon's Blood the dev said lets take the Far Cry 3 engine and make a standalone game that homage to all of the Hard late 70s/early 80s Sci fi movies.
The whole point is that the Joke of what it is so obvious. The same could be said for Double Dragon Neon.
Title: Re: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: marty on April 12, 2013, 02:30:56 PM
I just watched the Farcry:Blood Dragon trailer and I can't help but feel a little saddened by the "ironic" theme the game seems to be going for. I don't mind a little pushing against the 4th wall but it just looks like developers have no commitment to their content when they're constantly winking and nudging the player. You can't intentionally make something "its-so-bad-its-good"--it just sometimes happens. Letting players know you're in on the joke with "isn't-it-so-bad-it's-good" schtick just seems extra lame.
Things are ridiculous when they're done sincerely--absurdity functions only where there is authenticity. Maybe I just don't get ironic appreciation or whatever you want to call it because anytime a game breaks the 4th wall to call attention to one of itself, I feel taken out of the moment.
Retro/indie games seem most guilty of this but with FC:BD and DoubleDragon:Neon, it seems like fake-awesome! is getting some actual developer muscle put behind it. Conker's Bad Fur Day came out over 10 years ago. Meta-ironic ideas are long past fresh and purposing inadequacy/tropes/cliches in this fashion really sucks a lot of the fun out of a game. If a developer wants to be bold, that's great--highlighting failings this way isn't being bold though, it's being defensive.
It isn't irony when you set out to make a game that way. In the Case of Dragon's Blood the dev said lets take the Far Cry 3 engine and make a standalone game that homage to all of the Hard late 70s/early 80s Sci fi movies.
The whole point is that the Joke of what it is so obvious. The same could be said for Double Dragon Neon.
yeah, that's exactly the opinion I hold and espoused above: it's not ironic (hence the ? after irony in the title and the "s around ironic in the first sentence I wrote) and it's a lame approach, that even if done with a lot of detail, ruins immersion.
Title: Re: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: Ian Sane on April 12, 2013, 05:34:42 PM
Here's the problem with irony in creative works. It requires the audience to be in on the joke but often the joke is that deep down X is idiotic and thus there is a certain implication that the audience that enjoys X must be idiots. Like I haven't really dealt with this in videogames but if I'm watching an action movie and it's ironically poking fun at the genre, it's kind of insulting me because I like that genre, not in a *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* way, but completely legitimately. Sometimes something is fun only as long as it isn't self-aware. You enjoy it partially because you've taken it at face value and haven't thought about it enough to expose its inner stupidity. Almost all entertainment can be torn to pieces when deeply analyzed.
I love Zelda and could easily joke about its tropes but if it started making fun of itself I would feel like they were insulting me because I generally enjoy the series at face value. Part of the key of MST3K is that NO ONE likes the movies they're making fun of. You could do the same riffs on popular films that are well regarded but that doesn't work because no one wants to be told that Wizard of Oz or Star Wars is secretly dumb and that you are by extension a moron for liking it. If I mock something it is usually something I think is beneath me. You wouldn't play a game that was beneath you. So those that would like the gameplay of an ironic title would be the very audience the game is mocking. "Come buy our game so we can make fun of you for having bad taste in videogames!"
Title: Re: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: Louieturkey on April 17, 2013, 12:38:33 PM
Part of the key of MST3K is that NO ONE likes the movies they're making fun of. You could do the same riffs on popular films that are well regarded but that doesn't work because no one wants to be told that Wizard of Oz or Star Wars is secretly dumb and that you are by extension a moron for liking it.
Rifftrax says you are wrong.
Title: Re: immersion ruiner: irony?
Post by: RABicle on April 19, 2013, 05:51:35 AM
I thought maybe the laser eyed dinosaurs might've ruined the immersion more than a joke.
