Community Forums => General-3 => Topic started by: ShyGuy on March 14, 2013, 11:47:31 AM
Title: HOW NOT TO POST ON THE NWR FORUMS
Post by: ShyGuy on March 14, 2013, 11:47:31 AM
2013 has been a bang-up year for game developers so far, hopefully some more studios will go out of business for their gross incompetence.
First up, we have Aliens: Colonial Marines, a bait and switch scam by Gearbox. They promoted it with a different lighting system and animations and AI than the game actually shipped with. Sega hired Gearbox to make the game, but Gearbox allegedly embezzled the funds to make Borderlands 2, then farmed out the job to several work-for-hire studios who did a lousy job. The game was so bad it looks like they canceled the Wii U version.
Next, we have EA and Maxis teaming up to ruin on of my most beloved franchises. Making it online for what looks like DRM reasons, they failed to keep the servers running at launch. No offline mode means you can't play! Also, they really botched the AI in the game making things like tourism, emergency services, and traffic a joke. Thanks Maxis, Will Wright must be proud.
Who will be next? Tomb Raider seems to have turned out okay despite the most awkward marketing campaign in recent memory, but I know third party game developers won't let me down!
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Oblivion on March 14, 2013, 01:09:59 PM
Bioshock Infinite seems to be the next target, but hopefully it doesn't turn out to be ****.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Louieturkey on March 14, 2013, 01:28:20 PM
I'm gonna be weary of anything that is overhyped going forward. RE6 was a big disappointment last year. Now these two games are causing huge amounts of uproar. I'm hoping it's another EA game that goes bad based on their bad decisions but they may actually learn from this one.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: shingi_70 on March 14, 2013, 03:52:12 PM
Kind of mean spirited to hope people lose their jobs. I mean ignoring the online debacle and the fact that you can only make cites that existed in the 1950s Sim City got pretty good review. That's more of a EA wanting control of everything rather than being a Maxis problem.
I can't really defend Aliens at all. I think Bioshock infinite is either going to be considered one of the greatest games of all time or a Massive disappointment. I don't think that game can afford having a middle ground. I'm also pretty sure Fuse from Insomnia is going to be a Massive Bomba and will decide the fate of the company.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Louieturkey on March 14, 2013, 08:00:14 PM
Kind of mean spirited to hope people lose their jobs.
Who are you talking to about this?
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ShyGuy on March 14, 2013, 08:11:35 PM
Look, all I'm saying if the baker down the street makes horrible donuts, he should go be an dental hygenist or something instead. Losing a job sucks, but not everybody gets to make videogames for a living.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on March 14, 2013, 08:21:52 PM
yes because it's all the developers fault there's never a big publisher forcing them to release it early before it's ready or **gasp** forcing a broken online DRM system and nobody would ever be so cruel as to rip content out to be sold separately no, it's all the developers fault
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ShyGuy on March 14, 2013, 08:34:58 PM
So they should quit working at that job with the horrible big publisher and move on to something else...
Developer Randy Pitchford and Company are squarely responsible for the the Aliens debacle, not publisher Sega.
SimCity on the other hand... yeah that is most likely EA screwing things up.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 14, 2013, 08:37:28 PM
The thing is, Gearbox aren't the ones who would get screwed by their decisions, since they paid off by accomplishing what they set out to do and making Borderlands 2 a hit. And if Maxis isn't responsible for what happened with SimCity they probably shouldn't be claiming that they were like they have been.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: lolmonade on March 14, 2013, 08:53:49 PM
I voted Aliens because there nothing that could be done at this point to salvage it.
SimCity is salvageable, but it's up to EA/Maxis to do the right thing and cut the always-online DRM.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ShyGuy on March 14, 2013, 09:13:42 PM
The thing is, Gearbox aren't the ones who would get screwed by their decisions, since they paid off by accomplishing what they set out to do and making Borderlands 2 a hit. And if Maxis isn't responsible for what happened with SimCity they probably shouldn't be claiming that they were like they have been.
Unless Sega sues them for fraud.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: nickmitch on March 14, 2013, 10:13:45 PM
. . .Which they honestly should do.'
Anyway, I voted for SimCity because Aliens is bad because of incompetence and swindling (from my understanding based on posts from these forums). SimCity is worse to me because it's apparently a good game that's just made virtually unplayable thanks to DLC policies. It's the epitome of the worst trends in gaming: crippling DLC and always online. If I just want to boot up my laptop and play some SimCity in place with no wi-fi, nothing should stop me from doing that. But, here we are.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Shaymin on March 14, 2013, 10:17:47 PM
I voted for Sim City because it doesn't even properly do what it's supposed to... simulate a city.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 14, 2013, 10:56:55 PM
I hope Sega sues. Sega has a clear case against Gearbox fraudulently presenting a game they were not ever going to create. And I think it is important for the gaming community to see Publishers will not settle for this type of behavior.
On the other hand, I wonder how much Supervision and oversight Sega had over Gearbox and checking up on the game. Did Sega know Gearbox was farming the game out? (If that is what they did.) Was Sega presented with the same false goods? Did Sega ever check to see the status of the full game and do play throughs during the development cycle? If not Sega is also equally to blame.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 14, 2013, 11:02:33 PM
Kind of mean spirited to hope people lose their jobs. I mean ignoring the online debacle and the fact that you can only make cites that existed in the 1950s Sim City got pretty good review. That's more of a EA wanting control of everything rather than being a Maxis problem.
I can't really defend Aliens at all. I think Bioshock infinite is either going to be considered one of the greatest games of all time or a Massive disappointment. I don't think that game can afford having a middle ground. I'm also pretty sure Fuse from Insomnia is going to be a Massive Bomba and will decide the fate of the company.
I think built in range for Bioshock Infinite is going to be 7.0 - 9.0 on the corporate sites. Even if the game is lame, it'll get at least 7s because they've been running what amount to commercials for it for a year. If its okay, it'll probably get 9s. I think the videogames news biz was looking to bite the hand a few months ago, but is now settling comfortably back into being free PR wings.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ShyGuy on March 15, 2013, 01:55:12 AM
I voted for SimCity, not because it was the bigger failure, but because it really crapped on a franchise with such a legacy. I mean, SimCity is up there in the pantheon with Pac-Man, Super Mario, and Tetris! To make it worse, they have done four previous SimCity games that were legendary, and they managed to screw it up so, so much! The game mechanics were written in stone, man! IN STONE
It could still be fixed though. Offline mode, larger city sizes, no inflated population, fixed AI path finding, we might have a contender after that.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Soren on March 15, 2013, 02:08:58 AM
Sim City feels like a Facebook game. And if it were that it would probably be decent.
Aliens though. Nothing saves that. That's a good old fashioned disaster.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ShyGuy on March 15, 2013, 02:16:06 AM
Sim City feels like a Facebook game. And if it were that it would probably be decent.
Aliens though. Nothing saves that. That's a good old fashioned disaster.
Lol, that reminds me of Kotaku crapping on Conduit for the Wii but loving it up with Conduit Android http://kotaku.com/5990539/the-conduit-was-an-average-wii-game-now-its-an-excellent-mobile-fps
I GUESS PLATFORMS DO AFFECT THE EXPERIENCE, YOU NINTENDO-SHOULD-GO-THIRD-PARTY PEOPLE
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 15, 2013, 04:42:44 AM
**** big studios, it's all about indy games and small studios now, and it has been for a while. Video games are dead, long live video games!
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 15, 2013, 08:18:05 AM
Super that is the most awesome statement ever.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on March 15, 2013, 10:20:42 AM
I haven't played either game, so I honestly couldn't say which is worse. However, that GIF of the dumb alien really cracks me up, so let's say Simcity is worse.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ejamer on March 15, 2013, 10:41:50 AM
Wrote a big post, then hit backspace while editing and it all went away.
Long story short: Aliens is worse because it's a flat out mess that hurt the reputation of everyone who touched it and isn't going to get any better. SimCity is a big disappointment, but early hiccups with servers will get fixed and the other problems could be patched.
(I'm ignoring fan mod efforts for both games - but even there, the results for mods to SimCity are more promising than what fans have been able to accomplish with Aliens: Colonial Marines.)
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Ceric on March 15, 2013, 10:56:48 AM
Gimpy Alien makes me laugh.
Anyway.
Alien bould be salvaged if the WiiU version was the Actual game that was promised.
SimCity they will eventually iron out the kinks. Though if I want to play a SimCity game I'll probably grab 4.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ejamer on March 15, 2013, 11:25:56 AM
... Alien bould be salvaged if the WiiU version was the Actual game that was promised.
That doesn't salvage the other versions that are all hot trash.
Modders have apparently done good things with the graphics and lighting effects by playing with various settings, so that's something. Doesn't sound like they'll be able to help with the bigger problems though.
Quote
SimCity they will eventually iron out the kinks. Though if I want to play a SimCity game I'll probably grab 4.
Totally agree about buying 4.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: UncleBob on March 15, 2013, 11:52:40 AM
Voted Sim City 2013 if you haven't guessed. I don't see SC getting "Ironed out" as they will have to reconsider the very underlying design foundations and assumptions on which the game is built on. Using Glass box was a very poor decision and the box is smashed.
Sure if you want a Facebook game, yeah this mess might be acceptable, but Simcity is better than that, it's more than that. If this is acceptable, I will be happy to never ever see another Simcity game ever made again. Take out to the back of the barn and shoot it.
Kind of mean spirited to hope people lose their jobs. I mean ignoring the online debacle and the fact that you can only make cites that existed in the 1950s Sim City got pretty good review. That's more of a EA wanting control of everything rather than being a Maxis problem.
Also the "Good" Reviews were based on a "Closed" review session at EA where they only got several hours of play. not long enough for the illusion that is glass box to shatter. Also stop white knighting for companies, you are helping to maintain the status quo. 10 Year old games have better AI than this with a fraction of the CPU power and in much larger cities with functioning economic relationships.
It's no more mean spirited than it is unfortunate. There was this restaurant I went to once to get some lunch. The owner/cook was having trouble after a year in business. I felt sorry for him and in some way I wanted to help, so I sat down to talk to him. But after taking the food home and eating it, I knew why he was in trouble. His food wasn't any good. I wanted to tell him, but I knew it wouldn't help and the situation was terminal. Sometimes to move people on to better thing, they have lose their jobs and businesses.
In the case of EA, you can rightly tell them to get the **** out.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: UncleBob on March 19, 2013, 12:35:27 PM
Does what? Lets you disable the backspace key without an add-on? So does FireFox. I linked to how to do it above.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Ian Sane on March 19, 2013, 01:00:09 PM
That gif of all the people walking in a rectangle looks like some sort of political protest. The train one looks like some of the dumb bugs in Transport Tycoon. Anyone play that old game? Trains will turn on intersections and cause problems by being on the wrong track. Trains can't turn! How the hell does one even introduce such a bug?
Didn't know about "closed" reviews for this game. That's not a legitimate review at all.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 19, 2013, 01:05:03 PM
It is a legit review, and it happens all the time in the industry. I know oohboy is anti-EA (to the point he is rooting for hundreds of people to lose their jobs), but to go so far as to essentially claim none of the good reviews count? I guess he thinks that if somebody dares like a game that he doesn't, it doesnt count.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: oohhboy on March 19, 2013, 01:29:13 PM
Back on your horse? Closed reviews and embargos are a scam designed to snag as many first day sales and preorders before a turd gets exposed.
Even a closed review (http://www.polygon.com/game/simcity-2013/2630) that had originally given the game 9.5 had to corect their score to a 4.
There is no point keeping something going is all it foes is produce grabage.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: UncleBob on March 19, 2013, 01:36:05 PM
A closed review is like giving you a bite of a pizza.
Sure, I may give you the best tasting bite - but the rest could be covered with feces.
It's a disgusting practice and any reviewer worth giving any credit to would refuse to partake in one.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Louieturkey on March 19, 2013, 01:49:00 PM
It is a legit review, and it happens all the time in the industry. I know oohboy is anti-EA (to the point he is rooting for hundreds of people to lose their jobs), but to go so far as to essentially claim none of the good reviews count? I guess he thinks that if somebody dares like a game that he doesn't, it doesnt count.
The only way they are legit is if the reviewer reveals that they reviewed the game in an EA controlled environment and didn't actually play it online how everyone else would have to play it. Even then, those reviews become irrelevant.
When the final release product reviews are so much worse than the beta closed environment reviews, you have to question their validity. Eurogamer Sweden gave the game a 100 perfect score. Eurogamer proper and the German branch gave it a 40. One played it in an EA controlled environment. Two played it after the game was released the same as everyone else who bought the game. Polygon is a good example of what has gone wrong with the game. Polygon gave it a 9.5 originally (they played 50 hours or so and had a blast...on the beta version). The day after publication, they dropped the score 8 based on the server issues. Then, four days later, they dropped it to a 4 because the game had changed in a lot of ways that made it less fun.
EA has changed the game, which IMO makes the reviews of the beta version be irrelevant for the game in its current state.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 19, 2013, 02:08:21 PM
Under that logic, ANY game that focuses on online (like MMOs, and many FPSs) should not be reviewed until after they launch since online will be vastly different in the wild vs. just playing other reviewers.
As for Polygon (who are a joke of a site, and why people consider them respectable is a mystery), they have changed their score twice, so they are not reliable. Like they dropped the score from a 8 to a 4 after EA temporarily (and EA made sure to say it was temporary) removed features while they stabilized the game? I wonder if Polygon will apologize and put the score back once those features are all returned? Some of them already have been restored.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on March 19, 2013, 02:23:19 PM
Under that logic, ANY game that focuses on online (like MMOs, and many FPSs) should not be reviewed until after they launch since online will be vastly different in the wild vs. just playing other reviewers.
As for Polygon (who are a joke of a site, and why people consider them respectable is a mystery), they have changed their score twice, so they are not reliable. Like they dropped the score from a 8 to a 4 after EA temporarily (and EA made sure to say it was temporary) removed features while they stabilized the game? I wonder if Polygon will apologize and put the score back once those features are all returned? Some of them already have been restored.
then what should they do... they are expected to have reviews at launch. should they just say 'were not reviewing this game because of the online function' the introduction of patches and online debacles like this have chaged the battlefield. and Polygon is the only site that is doing the right thing, changing the review score to reflect that.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 19, 2013, 02:28:54 PM
If Polygon bumps the score back up (they said they dropped the score from 8 to 4 because EA removed features) now that EA is putting the features back in, then they will get some respect from me.
For games that dont require online, the scored doesnt need to be changed. If online is required, review the game ahead of time, and only change the score if online severely changes it (not just a little slow down because of server overload, dropping the score because of that destroys credibility of the reviewer).
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: oohhboy on March 19, 2013, 02:44:37 PM
Well, yes. A review in a controlled environment is going to be different than one in the wild. When a game goes wild the number of hours played goes up extremely quickly and flaws get exposed. The game mechanics influence the kind of community exists along with GM/Admin/Mod policies. An online game on the surface maybe all happy happy, but the community might be nothing but anguish and trolling. A game might be nothing but shooting each other into bloody paint jobs, but have a friendly community.
I ask what is your definition of what is "Respectable". Is NWR "Respectable"? IGN? Gamespot? CNN? FOX?.
The problems that SC 2013 has run much deeper than server issues. Fundamental relationships are broken. The Residential/commercial/Industry relationship is utterly broken. You can make a city with "1 million" citizens with nothing but residential zones, parks and no power or water or services. The simulation is fundamentally flawed with absolutely no bearing to reality which the previous games mimic.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Louieturkey on March 19, 2013, 03:37:56 PM
Under that logic, ANY game that focuses on online (like MMOs, and many FPSs) should not be reviewed until after they launch since online will be vastly different in the wild vs. just playing other reviewers.
While this has nothing to do with MMOs since SC13 is not an MMO, I do believe there should be an updated review after a period of time that the game is out (although, after the first couple of months, the "professional" reviews become irrelevant and the community in the game ends up being the main voice that outsiders listen to). Look at The Old Republic. It got some good reviews when it first came out. Then after a couple of months, the community in the game lost interest and it became boring and it started to lose money. WoW had great reviews when it first came out. Blizzard kept pumping resources into it and kept it interesting. So people kept playing it. An updated review for it would have said it was still a great game. An updated review for TOR would have most likely been lower.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on March 19, 2013, 06:22:52 PM
Online gaming is a standard and any major issues with that should be held accountable. if it means lowering the score to reflect that DO IT!! a broken online system doesn't warrant a metacritic bonus.
For games that dont require online, the score doesnt need to be changed. If online is required, review the game ahead of time, and only change the score if online severely changes it (not just a little slow down because of server overload, dropping the score because of that destroys credibility of the reviewer).
So if a new halo game comes out with a broken online system it shouldn't change the score because you still have a campaign mode that you can get through in an hour?
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 19, 2013, 06:27:07 PM
Yes. Unless online is the main focus of the game, then a weak online system should not hurt the overall score of the game. Online is not standard with every game, nor should it be for most.
For your specific example, I would scoff at that review. They are reviewing the game, which is the campaign mode. Yes, online is very popular in the Halo games, but they are not vital to the actual game and shouldn't be a factor in the score.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on March 19, 2013, 06:56:49 PM
Yes. Unless online is the main focus of the game, then a weak online system should not hurt the overall score of the game. Online is not standard with every game, nor should it be for most.
For your specific example, I would scoff at that review. They are reviewing the game, which is the campaign mode. Yes, online is very popular in the Halo games, but they are not vital to the actual game and shouldn't be a factor in the score.
but it is, alot of people buy a game for it's online mode. Shouldn't reviewers make sure that the main reason people buy the game is held accountable.
what about Subspace Emmisary? You can put the same logic in there. it's not vital to the main game so reviews shouldn't account for it.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 19, 2013, 07:00:48 PM
Um, Subspace Emissary is part of the main game. In fact, it's how you unlock a lot of things. So that comparison is faulty.
Unless online is the main purpose of the game (or is required), then it shouldnt factor in. Should they mention it in the review? Sure, but it shouldnt effect the score. And what is the time frame for these reviewers playing revisionism history with their review score? Can a reviewer go back and dock their score for Madden NFL 07 because EA shut down the servers and there is no way to play it online now (and I think 07 had an achievement that required it)?
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on March 19, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
Um, Subspace Emissary is part of the main game. In fact, it's how you unlock a lot of things. So that comparison is faulty.
Unless online is the main purpose of the game (or is required), then it shouldnt factor in. Should they mention it in the review? Sure, but it shouldnt effect the score. And what is the time frame for these reviewers playing revisionism history with their review score? Can a reviewer go back and dock their score for Madden NFL 07 because EA shut down the servers and there is no way to play it online now (and I think 07 had an achievement that required it)?
it's a matter of relevance. nobody gives a crud about madden 07 but what is the 'main game' you say subspace is how you unlock things but then mention a madden 07 achievement(hypocrite) so that can't be the defining factor. also characters can be unlocked through VS mode and nobody with a life cares about trophys(or stickers). What about on a system level, should we not have complained about the wii's online because it's not a crucial part of the system?
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 19, 2013, 07:52:17 PM
You are connecting two dots that don't exist. The Madden mention was in regards to saying it's OK for a reviewer to go back and change their score. If you think it's OK for for a studio to go back and change their score based on online, what would be wrong with a reviewer going back and changing their score for something like Madden 07, now that you can't play it online or even get all of the achievements?
With Subspace Emissary, there is nothing preventing you from going back in 20 years and playing it. And if you ever played the Smash Bros. games, you would know how fun and interesting it is to unlock trophies. And I could say that nobody who has a life cares about something like leveling up in Call of Duty's online (especially as when online gets shut down for that, it all goes away. But with Smash, you will never lose that stuff).
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on March 19, 2013, 08:08:40 PM
You are connecting two dots that don't exist. The Madden mention was in regards to saying it's OK for a reviewer to go back and change their score. If you think it's OK for for a studio to go back and change their score based on online, what would be wrong with a reviewer going back and changing their score for something like Madden 07, now that you can't play it online or even get all of the achievements?
With Subspace Emissary, there is nothing preventing you from going back in 20 years and playing it. And if you ever played the Smash Bros. games, you would know how fun and interesting it is to unlock trophies. And I could say that nobody who has a life cares about something like leveling up in Call of Duty's online (especially as when online gets shut down for that, it all goes away. But with Smash, you will never lose that stuff).
again relevance. nobody cares about 07 and somebody who finds it in the bargain bin likely will not care that the online mode went offline
but when i'm paying near full price for the brand new halo game is when i want to know about every part of it's value, yes madden lost it's online mode, and it also lost its price point accordingly
and smash trophies are fun but the subspace exclusive trophy stand ones are just stupid to get
but you still haven't answered my question. what is the 'main game'
were getting so philosophical here and i still haven't touched another example i have (that you may prefer)
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: UncleBob on March 19, 2013, 08:22:24 PM
Here, guys. I'll settle this for TJ using TJ's own words.
Quote
Yes. Unless online is the main focus of the game, then a weak online system should not hurt the overall score of the game.
According to the developers, online is a MAJOR focus of this game.
It’s fundamental to the vision we had for this SimCity. From the ground up, we designed this game with multiplayer in mind – using new technology to realize a vision of players connected in regions to create a SimCity that captured the dynamism of the world we live in; a global, ever-changing, social world.
So, Online was a major focus of this SIMCity - so a weak online system (one that's so bad it requires parts of the game to be disabled in order to allow the game to even work) should hurt the overall score... just as TJ said.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on March 19, 2013, 10:40:14 PM
we were debating the merits of changing review scores in a broader scope and had teetered on the online aspect(and their importance in modern games). could somebody amputate the whole argument with your 'moderater voodoo'? this discussion deserves it's own thread tbh and i feel we're getting places
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on March 19, 2013, 10:41:09 PM
Voted Sim City 2013 if you haven't guessed. I don't see SC getting "Ironed out" as they will have to reconsider the very underlying design foundations and assumptions on which the game is built on. Using Glass box was a very poor decision and the box is smashed.
Sure if you want a Facebook game, yeah this mess might be acceptable, but Simcity is better than that, it's more than that. If this is acceptable, I will be happy to never ever see another Simcity game ever made again. Take out to the back of the barn and shoot it.
Kind of mean spirited to hope people lose their jobs. I mean ignoring the online debacle and the fact that you can only make cites that existed in the 1950s Sim City got pretty good review. That's more of a EA wanting control of everything rather than being a Maxis problem.
Also the "Good" Reviews were based on a "Closed" review session at EA where they only got several hours of play. not long enough for the illusion that is glass box to shatter. Also stop white knighting for companies, you are helping to maintain the status quo. 10 Year old games have better AI than this with a fraction of the CPU power and in much larger cities with functioning economic relationships.
It's no more mean spirited than it is unfortunate. There was this restaurant I went to once to get some lunch. The owner/cook was having trouble after a year in business. I felt sorry for him and in some way I wanted to help, so I sat down to talk to him. But after taking the food home and eating it, I knew why he was in trouble. His food wasn't any good. I wanted to tell him, but I knew it wouldn't help and the situation was terminal. Sometimes to move people on to better thing, they have lose their jobs and businesses.
In the case of EA, you can rightly tell them to get the **** out.
FLYING CARS!!!! :D
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: oohhboy on March 20, 2013, 02:29:53 AM
Let me remind the jury that EA repeatedly lied (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/16/simcity-bosss-straight-answers-seem-pretty-wiggly/) during and after the launch. These aren't technicalities, they are straight up lies.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Plugabugz on March 20, 2013, 03:53:48 AM
I'm surprised nobody has compared the launch of SimCity against Burnout Paradise which, arguably, is an MMO-of-sorts in it's own right but instead opted for phasing in new features gradually rather than one big splodge all at once.
At least Criterion got it right.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Morari on March 22, 2013, 07:42:29 PM
Criterion got it right until they cut and run on the PC version, leaving it without many of the near-necessary DLC packs. It sure would be nice to have the "Cops and Robbers" gamemode and the "Big Surf Island" location.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: oohhboy on April 01, 2013, 11:02:41 AM
ROFL!
In other related news, Maxis got thrown under the bus by EA (http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/ea-exec-claims-always-online-for-simcity-was-maxis-idea-18315).
Quote
EA Labels president Frank Gibeau wants everyone to stop blaming the "evil suits at EA" for SimCity always being online. See, it's not their fault; Maxis' development team was the one that wanted this feataure.
In an interview with GamesIndustry International (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-27-ea-drm-is-a-failed-dead-end-strategy) at GDC, Gibeau compared SimCity to an MMO and straight up called out always-online DRM as awful. “DRM is a failed dead-end strategy; it's not a viable strategy for the gaming business. So what we tried to do creatively is build an online service in the SimCity universe and that's what we sought to achieve," he said.
I admit I haven't played SimCity myself (not a PC gamer by any stretch), but from what I understand from my friends, the game can't really be classified as an MMO. Yes you can visit your friends' cities, but you don't have to if you don't want to, and you can only interact with three other people really at one time. Yes, you can interact on a limited basis with up to 12 people, but that doesn't seem to me like it qualifies as a massively multiplayer game; you know, part of what MMO stands for. If leaderboards also means that it's an MMO, then I guess Bayonetta was an MMO without me even realizing it.
So I guess what I'm saying is that Gibeau's argument confuses me a little. Is he saying that when a mostly single-player experience has a few multiplayer features, that's when the always-online requirement stops being DRM and starts being MMO?
Anybody have any idea what the next worse game of 2013 is going to be?
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Louieturkey on April 02, 2013, 02:56:24 PM
What's the next big overly hyped game after Bioshock (which sounds like it actually lived up to its expectations)? In fact, what are the rest of the huge blockbusters coming out for the rest of the year?
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Ceric on April 02, 2013, 03:05:07 PM
I'm thinking its really GTA. Which I think is going to bomb hard.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: broodwars on April 02, 2013, 03:06:09 PM
What's the next big overly hyped game after Bioshock (which sounds like it actually lived up to its expectations)? In fact, what are the rest of the huge blockbusters coming out for the rest of the year?
I'd say probably The Last of Us, Grand Theft Auto 5, this year's Call of Duty, this year's Assassin's Creed, and Watch_Dogs. Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 should be in there as well, but we have no release date on that yet. There are also PS4 releases, but I'm not counting those until we get actual release dates.
There are also smaller games from notable franchises here & there like Resident Evil Revelaitons HD, Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIIII, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD, Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD, and Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD Remix.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: broodwars on April 02, 2013, 03:08:55 PM
I'm thinking its really GTA. Which I think is going to bomb hard.
I don't think it's going to bomb, but I do think GTA's going to underperform. Between at least one upcoming major new console release, 3 nearby sales juggernauts in Assassin's Creed 4; Battlefield 4; and Call of Duty XYZ, and Open World games not being a big deal anymore like they were at the start of this generation...yeah, I think Rockstar's not going to see a mega-hit this time.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Stogi on April 02, 2013, 03:17:47 PM
But....but you play as three different people at the same time! That's three simultaneous hot coffees.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 02, 2013, 04:17:47 PM
Battlefield, especially on consoles, is nowhere near GTA's level in terms of sales.
GTA V will be very big in terms of sales.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: oohhboy on April 03, 2013, 01:42:14 AM
I would post funny videos of Colonial Marines, but Simcity absolutely destroys it in term of the number of bugs, glitchs and poor design desicions. This one is special for TJ. Behold! Libertarian Utopia (http://imgur.com/a/gW7F9)! No taxes, no services, no parks, nothing but roads and residential zoning with 1.8 million sims living in complete squalor, but is perfectly happy because taxes are at zero. (http://i.imgur.com/CI0iihDh.jpg)
Final Fanatsy is a damaged brand at this point. Unless the next game is uniquely good, I expect it to do poorly based on having really poor gameplay.
While GTA is due to a fall, there hasn't been any indicators so far of any major **** ups, but as a franchise it is getting stale. If it does lose sales, it would be due to Saints Row which is a far more entertaining game.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on April 03, 2013, 02:15:11 AM
Libertarian Utopia (http://imgur.com/a/gW7F9)! No taxes, no services, no parks, nothing but roads and residential zoning with 1.8 million sims living in complete squalor, but is perfectly happy because taxes are at zero.
Ron Paul has made anime REAL! (http://i.imgur.com/bll9V.gif)
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: broodwars on April 03, 2013, 02:09:34 PM
Battlefield, especially on consoles, is nowhere near GTA's level in terms of sales.
Did I say they were? I was saying that Battlefield was but one of many things releasing around the time of GTA 5 that could eat into sales. I'm saying their combined influence would hurt GTA's sales.
Quote
GTA V will be very big in terms of sales.
Based on what information? Pre-order numbers? The sales of the last GTA or Red Dead Redemption game, which released in a very different market?
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: oohhboy on April 09, 2013, 08:45:14 PM
Third Parties continue to be terrible with EA taking the Consumerist Golden Poo a second year in a row in a "Landside victory" with 78% of the vote (http://consumerist.com/2013/04/09/ea-makes-worst-company-in-america-history-wins-title-for-second-year-in-a-row/#more-10125017)!
Gaze upon the glory and weep for I have no more words.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Louieturkey on April 10, 2013, 03:21:13 PM
I figured they'd win that. To be a little fair, the voting started right around the time SimCity was released so the vitriol for EA was loud at that time.
Still, 78% of the vote seems like you have to try to be that bad.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on April 20, 2013, 06:27:05 PM
and simcity is now an advertisement platform.... toothpaste, really... keeping it classy ea
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 20, 2013, 09:43:16 PM
and simcity is now an advertisement platform.... toothpaste, really... keeping it classy ea
Um, gaming tie-ins are decades old and fine. Movies, TV shows, and music do it too. So how is it not classy.
may i please learn where you obtained the rock you have been living under, because frankly, it must be a very good quality rock to live under... it comes down to rubbing salt on the wound... apparently 'Worst company in America' is a title to be worn with pride...
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 20, 2013, 10:07:10 PM
I know you dont like the truth, but you are wrong. You act like EA is doing something wrong with a tie-in. What about Microsoft teaming with Mountain Dew for Gears of War? Or Activsion with Mountain Dew for Call of Duty? Nintendo having actual Duracell batteries in Pikmin 2? Nintendo, Sega, etc. having deals with Burger King/McDonalds/Taco Bell, etc.?
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on April 20, 2013, 10:15:34 PM
and this is ingame content that can only be obtained through purchasing 'specially marked packages of oral toothpaste,' the TRUTH is that the well is already poisoned with the always online debacle and that EA seems poised to turn simcity into an Advertising Platform on the level of Facebook,
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 20, 2013, 10:22:42 PM
Um, AGAIN. This is nothing new, games have had in-game ads for YEARS. Hell, in my last post I even mentioned an example of Nintendo doing it. And what about games that have in-game content you can only get by buying the game at select retailers? CD's also sometimes have exclusive songs based on retailers (Walmart and iTunes especially). Sometimes DVDs are retailer exclusive. What EA doing is not new or exclusive to them. You are trying to make a non-issue into a issue.
And none of the 5 items you unlock are Crest items or have their logo, so their is no in-game advertising from this.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ShyGuy on April 20, 2013, 10:36:07 PM
I want to move to that Libertarian Utopia.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on April 20, 2013, 10:55:14 PM
Super James - Admin and Hero to the People Edit: Do you really think that's okay? THIS FORUM IS FOR VIDYA GAEMS
Stop trolling, stop picking fights, stop being jerks.
I will totally set this place on fire..
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 20, 2013, 11:01:59 PM
pokepal, I am convinced you are not ignoring me on purpose and when you do read my posts you read what you want and interpret it how you want.
EA IS NOT DOING ANYTHING NEW, MANY OTHER GAME COMPANIES, MOVIE COMPANIES, TV COMPANIES, AND MUSIC COMPANIES DO THE SAME THING. IT IS STANDARD.
There, is that clear? I don't get why you are trying to make an issue out of what EA is doing. There is ZERO wrong with it, nor is it new. Apparently you have a problem with promotion tie-ins. But I dont hear you bitching about Atlus, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Activision, Square Enix, Warner Bros. Interactive, Deep Silver, and many others. All of these companies have done the SAME thing. And that is just video game companies.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 20, 2013, 11:07:05 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/u54VDx8.jpg)
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on April 20, 2013, 11:10:34 PM
YES THIS IS DIFFERENT AND FRANKLY YOU ARE NOT SEEING THE PROBLEM HERE
1. THIS HAS NOT BEEN DONE IN A WAY WHERE THE PRODUCT IS THE ONLY WAY TO RECEIVE IN GAME CONTENT.
2. BY YOUR LOGIC I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO START A SECOND HOLOCAUST JUST BECAUSE THIS HITLER GUY DID IT.
3. I JUST FELT LIKE USING CAPS LOCK
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 20, 2013, 11:15:11 PM
1)Wrong (in fact, retailer-exclusive bonuses are far worse. Batman: Arkham City actually had retailer exclusive costumes, meaning the only way to get all costumes was to buy the game multiple times)
2)Wow, way to make your whole argument invalid. The Hitler defense is asinine and always the argument of last resort (usually when someone has nothing valid to use)
3)I was getting my point across since you were not getting it
I am taking BNM's logic, i'm done responding to you. I have rarely seen non-trolling comments from you.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Sarail on April 20, 2013, 11:36:04 PM
BnM, try again. I don't think he heard you.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 21, 2013, 01:10:51 AM
I think I'll just ban both of them and be done with it.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 21, 2013, 01:11:58 AM
O-o
LOL
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: ShyGuy on April 21, 2013, 01:48:36 AM
My beautiful thread has been burned to ashes and scattered across the river...
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on April 21, 2013, 01:03:45 PM
My beautiful thread has been burned to ashes and scattered across the river...
That's too elegant to describe what happened in this thread.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Stogi on April 21, 2013, 07:25:54 PM
Remember when I was officially (unofficial) the worst poster?
Those were the days.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on April 21, 2013, 07:30:53 PM
uggh I would like to think we have worse here,
EA, this is not how you make friends and bring people together, oh and the toothpaste thing can also applies to the sim city social thing that is about to be taken down in june anyways
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 21, 2013, 09:21:09 PM
Pokepal, you were wrong on the toothpast things, fact. Just stop bringing it up before you embarass yourself at not knowing about product placement.
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: pokepal148 on April 21, 2013, 09:36:28 PM
So even though you claimed i'm the troll in this whole ordeal you're dragging this argument on when i just added one little tid-bit about simcity social and in no way making any statement in an effort to continue that whole argument,
with that in mind, since you didn't take the (abeit poorly given) hint i will make this statement, IT IS DONE, FINISHED, ANCIENT HISTORY, DROP IT!!! (http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/452/275/b81.jpg)
Title: Re: HOW NOT TO POST ON THE NWR FORUMS
Post by: oohhboy on April 24, 2013, 06:24:22 PM
Piece la resistance. (http://i.imgur.com/A9chzfH.jpg)
Title: Re: Third Parties are fantastic! Aliens: Colonial Marines vs. Simcity
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on May 10, 2013, 05:08:33 PM
Yes, yes, Spyke probably meant that playing the "Hitler card" was a bad way to support an argument. But Spyke specifically said "Hitler Defense" which is probably an incorrect application of Godwin's Law but, more importantly, funny in and of itself. That's what I was getting at. But thanks for the link. It made for interesting reading.
Title: Re: HOW NOT TO POST ON THE NWR FORUMS
Post by: pokepal148 on August 11, 2013, 11:31:54 PM
EA's definition of successful launch is MUCH different than gamer's definition of successful launch. Of course EA considers it a success to move 2 million copies even if the launch was plagued with server issues. Even if only a small fraction of gamers continue playing, those are all copies they made money on, and the players who continue on are easy targets for their expansive list of DLC available for the game, further providing a revenue source.
Title: Re: HOW NOT TO POST ON THE NWR FORUMS
Post by: pokepal148 on September 04, 2013, 10:06:34 PM
and they screwed up the mac release as well. bravo
Title: Re: HOW NOT TO POST ON THE NWR FORUMS
Post by: Wah on September 05, 2013, 11:29:49 PM
Bravo for being a terrible little cat that no one cares about!