Why Nintendo has third party relations all wrong.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/33255
As if the future was too bright for Nintendo’s new console, we learned this week that Ubisoft delayed Rayman Legends, its seemingly high-quality, Wii U-exclusive platformer, seven months to port it to the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. Judging by the reaction on our own forums and across the Internet, this was a punch to the gut for Wii U owners, and for Nintendo itself.
We’ll likely never know the events that led to this decision, the internal thinking at Ubisoft, or how much Nintendo knew and when. All we know is that the Wii U’s already weak first quarter just got a lot weaker, and there doesn’t seem to be anything Nintendo could have done about it.
It’s especially telling that this was Ubisoft. EA possibly dropping Madden from the platform isn’t that surprising given the rumors of fallout between the two companies, but going back to E3 last year, Nintendo and Ubisoft seemed like the best of friends, featuring prominently in each other’s booths and presentation materials. If a few bad months could scare them away, what hope was there?
Over the last few console generations, we’ve seen Nintendo make more and more effort to court third-party developers, and support has, at best, remained the same, if not taken steps back in certain ways. What has Nintendo accomplished trying to accommodate publishers who have shown almost no interest in giving its hardware more than marginal support?
I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.
If nobody wants to support Nintendo, it needs to step up to the plate and support itself by expanding its own development studios, forging more partnerships with smaller third-party developers, and creating a platform that attracts as many independent developers as is possible. If it’s not going to get the third parties’ support, Nintendo needs to put itself in a position where that’s not needed If anyone in this business can pull that off, my money’s on Nintendo. It just needs to go for it.
No matter how much Nintendo attempts to cater to third parties, even going so far as to publish the games themselves, third parties always act like it's such a f**king CHORE to develop something that ISN'T a Microsoft or Sony product or even, dare I say, ORIGINAL?
No matter how much Nintendo attempts to cater to third parties, even going so far as to publish the games themselves, third parties always act like it's such a f**king CHORE to develop something that ISN'T a Microsoft or Sony product or even, dare I say, ORIGINAL?
Oh come now. Do you really expect "ORIGINAL" software on a Nintendo platform, a company driven by pure nostalgia? :P: : : : :
Besides, the era of 3rd party exclusives is just about over on the other 2 HD platforms as well, these days limited to pretty much Epic games, the Splinter Cell franchise, downloadable games, and DLC. It's unusual that the Wii U launched with a 3rd party exclusive at all.
I think we can agree that if the Wii U had a better launch lineup, especially from Nintendo, the console would probably not be in the toxic situation it is now. It needed more than ZombiU and another New Super Mario Bros. game.
Oh come now. Do you really expect "ORIGINAL" software on a Nintendo platform, a company driven by pure nostalgia? :P: :
This NWR article makes a great compliment to this (http://pietriots.com/2012/06/16/nintendo-needs-you-to-shut-up/) Pietriots article.
Oh come now. Do you really expect "ORIGINAL" software on a Nintendo platform, a company driven by pure nostalgia? :P: : : : :
I was referring to the half-assed ports that plague Nintendo consoles.
I am looking at all these great games that are coming to other consoles like Metal Gear Rising, Lords of Shadow 2, Crysis 3, Killer is Dead, GTA 5, and with no Wii U version in sight. To add insult to injury, many of the developers of these games scoff at the idea of making games for the Wii U. The main reason for this is because the Wii U's install base is small and they have been burned too many times on Nintendo consoles.In case of all the games you listed it's not about the sales (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=37892.msg778581#msg778581).
It's time we held Square-Enix accountable so Nintendo can focus on their OWN games.
I really like Iwata, but, recently I think he and Nintendo are too nice. A little bit of the old hard-edged Hiroshi Yamauchi style is in order.That would definitely drive third party publishers away.
I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.
I've always wondered if Nintendo locks in these third party developers with iron-clad contracts, then they come begging to Mr. Iwata.Personally if I was Iwata-San I would have a clause in the contract that if something I paid developement, publishing, marketing, etc. for goes multi-platform in a region I did this in then either:
"Iwata-San! We are the poor and miserable Capcom! If we do not port the Capcom Five (four) to the PS2, surely we will perish! ooooooooh"
"I am the great and merciful Iwata! Once too, I was a developer. I have great sympathy for you. Therefore, I will allow you out of your iron clad contract!"
"Iwata-San! We are the poor and miserable Tecmo! If we do not port Ninja Gaiden: Razor's Edge...."
I would love for Nintendo to be able to just keep a steady supply of high quality software and not have to worry about 3rd parties to fill in the gaps.
Frankly, Nintendo has shown with the N64 and the GameCube that they have the ability to support a system on their own. And that's all they need to worry about.
I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.
Nintendo should definitely put it's own weight behind the Wii U, but to disregard the appeal that third party software holds would be risky. Quite frankly, there are genres and games with content and themes that Nintendo wouldn't touch with a 10 foot grapple beam. There are also games that Nintendo are simply not capable of making. Nintendo cannot be all things to all people, and it is in the spaces that Nintendo don't operate that third party's have traditionally found success on Nintendo platforms, providing the types of games that Nintendo can't or won't publish.
My worry is this. If Nintendo is not receiving third party support at a point when their system's technical aspects are comprobable to their competitors (ports being made that much easier), then what hope do they have come next year when Orbis and Durango have lept over the Wii U? Based on history I would have to suggest that the Wii U is likely to be another Wii (at least in terms of third party support). It is this worry that has urged me not to buy a Wii U yet. I had fun with my wii, but was continually frustrated by the huge gaps in the release schedule.
When I was younger I could play a game for months and therefore the gaps did not bother me so much. I'm at a stage now, however, where I can afford more games, I'm open to playing a broader spectrum of games, and I want a system that can support that diet. If the Wii U continues on it's current trajectory it's likely to be another Wii, and honestly? As much as I love 10 or so games on that system, I'm not buying another Wii.
What I'm saying is, Nintendo could throw as much weight behind their system as possible, releasing more games per year than ever before, and the Wii U would still not have a software library that could objectively be considered inclusive. So Nintendo can either court third partys in the hope that they can turn the situation around, or they can give up and just let the Wii U become another Gamecube (a secondary system owned almost exclusively to play Nintendo games).
Personally I'd prefer they try the former.
I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.
Nintendo should definitely put it's own weight behind the Wii U, but to disregard the appeal that third party software holds would be risky. Quite frankly, there are genres and games with content and themes that Nintendo wouldn't touch with a 10 foot grapple beam. There are also games that Nintendo are simply not capable of making. Nintendo cannot be all things to all people, and it is in the spaces that Nintendo don't operate that third party's have traditionally found success on Nintendo platforms, providing the types of games that Nintendo can't or won't publish.
My worry is this. If Nintendo is not receiving third party support at a point when their system's technical aspects are comprobable to their competitors (ports being made that much easier), then what hope do they have come next year when Orbis and Durango have lept over the Wii U? Based on history I would have to suggest that the Wii U is likely to be another Wii (at least in terms of third party support). It is this worry that has urged me not to buy a Wii U yet. I had fun with my wii, but was continually frustrated by the huge gaps in the release schedule.
When I was younger I could play a game for months and therefore the gaps did not bother me so much. I'm at a stage now, however, where I can afford more games, I'm open to playing a broader spectrum of games, and I want a system that can support that diet. If the Wii U continues on it's current trajectory it's likely to be another Wii, and honestly? As much as I love 10 or so games on that system, I'm not buying another Wii.
What I'm saying is, Nintendo could throw as much weight behind their system as possible, releasing more games per year than ever before, and the Wii U would still not have a software library that could objectively be considered inclusive. So Nintendo can either court third partys in the hope that they can turn the situation around, or they can give up and just let the Wii U become another Gamecube (a secondary system owned almost exclusively to play Nintendo games).
Personally I'd prefer they try the former.
I'm not suggesting Nintendo try to do this entirely with their own internal studios. More projects along the lines of Bayonetta 2 or Wonderful 101, or Excitebots or Punch-Out or whatever, where they partner with an outside studio to make a game, would be a part of something like this.
I'm just saying that since there doesn't seem to be anything Nintendo can do to win over third parties and have them voluntarily support the platform, they should concentrate their efforts elsewhere.
I think it’s time for Nintendo to embrace the fact that people buy Nintendo hardware for Nintendo’s own software. It should stop holding back its own development to make room for third party-support that will never come, and instead blow everyone away with the sheer force of its own weight.
Nintendo should definitely put it's own weight behind the Wii U, but to disregard the appeal that third party software holds would be risky. Quite frankly, there are genres and games with content and themes that Nintendo wouldn't touch with a 10 foot grapple beam. There are also games that Nintendo are simply not capable of making. Nintendo cannot be all things to all people, and it is in the spaces that Nintendo don't operate that third party's have traditionally found success on Nintendo platforms, providing the types of games that Nintendo can't or won't publish.
My worry is this. If Nintendo is not receiving third party support at a point when their system's technical aspects are comprobable to their competitors (ports being made that much easier), then what hope do they have come next year when Orbis and Durango have lept over the Wii U? Based on history I would have to suggest that the Wii U is likely to be another Wii (at least in terms of third party support). It is this worry that has urged me not to buy a Wii U yet. I had fun with my wii, but was continually frustrated by the huge gaps in the release schedule.
When I was younger I could play a game for months and therefore the gaps did not bother me so much. I'm at a stage now, however, where I can afford more games, I'm open to playing a broader spectrum of games, and I want a system that can support that diet. If the Wii U continues on it's current trajectory it's likely to be another Wii, and honestly? As much as I love 10 or so games on that system, I'm not buying another Wii.
What I'm saying is, Nintendo could throw as much weight behind their system as possible, releasing more games per year than ever before, and the Wii U would still not have a software library that could objectively be considered inclusive. So Nintendo can either court third partys in the hope that they can turn the situation around, or they can give up and just let the Wii U become another Gamecube (a secondary system owned almost exclusively to play Nintendo games).
Personally I'd prefer they try the former.
I'm not suggesting Nintendo try to do this entirely with their own internal studios. More projects along the lines of Bayonetta 2 or Wonderful 101, or Excitebots or Punch-Out or whatever, where they partner with an outside studio to make a game, would be a part of something like this.
I'm just saying that since there doesn't seem to be anything Nintendo can do to win over third parties and have them voluntarily support the platform, they should concentrate their efforts elsewhere.
Unfortuantely I tried to delete a coma and backed out of the page.
I had a very well thought out , eloquent, and resonably robust (i.e. long) response in which I discussed several interesting things and tried to find a middle ground. Unfortuantely I tried to delete a coma and backed out of the page.Good browsers (read: not Firefox or IE) save post content within the history. Out of the box. When i do that, i just go forward and it's still there. Too bad Opera is going bankrupt or something
The delay of Rayman Legends made me decide to get a $99 Xbox 360 for my birthday instead of a $300 Wii U with which I would have no games for.
My birthday's actually the day of Sony's big announcement coming up.
The best example of this is Take Two and Rockstar. Nintendo HAS to Grand Theft Auto V on the Wii U.
Out of curiosity, can anyone provide details on how much effort Nintendo courting 3rd party developers has actually detracted from them producing their first party titles?
I sincerely don't know, but if it hasn't really impacted their ability to output their own games, what does it hurt for them to seek out 3rd party support for the console? I know they were mostly ports, but the Wii U's launch would have been a drought if not for the 3rd party support it did receive. If Rayman Legends for Wii U hadn't been delayed, but still had an announced Xbox 360/PS3 port scheduled for Fall, would it still be considered backstabbing?
And what about Bayonetta 2? While they certainly may not have great luck courting EA, Activision, or other huge publishers, certainly the smaller devs would be worth seeking.
Park five really nice cars outside my house and I'll show you.can they have proximity mines inside?
Out of curiosity, can anyone provide details on how much effort Nintendo courting 3rd party developers has actually detracted from them producing their first party titles?
I sincerely don't know, but if it hasn't really impacted their ability to output their own games, what does it hurt for them to seek out 3rd party support for the console? I know they were mostly ports, but the Wii U's launch would have been a drought if not for the 3rd party support it did receive. If Rayman Legends for Wii U hadn't been delayed, but still had an announced Xbox 360/PS3 port scheduled for Fall, would it still be considered backstabbing?
And what about Bayonetta 2? While they certainly may not have great luck courting EA, Activision, or other huge publishers, certainly the smaller devs would be worth seeking.
its more visibly hurt their release schedule
whats coming-out this month....
NOTHING
Out of curiosity, can anyone provide details on how much effort Nintendo courting 3rd party developers has actually detracted from them producing their first party titles?
I sincerely don't know, but if it hasn't really impacted their ability to output their own games, what does it hurt for them to seek out 3rd party support for the console? I know they were mostly ports, but the Wii U's launch would have been a drought if not for the 3rd party support it did receive. If Rayman Legends for Wii U hadn't been delayed, but still had an announced Xbox 360/PS3 port scheduled for Fall, would it still be considered backstabbing?
And what about Bayonetta 2? While they certainly may not have great luck courting EA, Activision, or other huge publishers, certainly the smaller devs would be worth seeking.
im answering your first questionOut of curiosity, can anyone provide details on how much effort Nintendo courting 3rd party developers has actually detracted from them producing their first party titles?
I sincerely don't know, but if it hasn't really impacted their ability to output their own games, what does it hurt for them to seek out 3rd party support for the console? I know they were mostly ports, but the Wii U's launch would have been a drought if not for the 3rd party support it did receive. If Rayman Legends for Wii U hadn't been delayed, but still had an announced Xbox 360/PS3 port scheduled for Fall, would it still be considered backstabbing?
And what about Bayonetta 2? While they certainly may not have great luck courting EA, Activision, or other huge publishers, certainly the smaller devs would be worth seeking.
its more visibly hurt their release schedule
whats coming-out this month....
NOTHING
I understand, and I agree that it's ridiculous they aren't releasing the basically completed Wii U version just so they release all versions of Rayman at the same time, but my theoretical specifically suggested that if they didn't delay the Wii U game.
The delay of Rayman Legends made me decide to get a $99 Xbox 360 for my birthday instead of a $300 Wii U with which I would have no games for.
My birthday's actually the day of Sony's big announcement coming up.
Out of curiosity, any reason you opted for the subsidized Xbox 360 with the Xbox Live plan instead of buying it outright at $300 if you were willing to drop that amount of money on the Wii U anyway?
Yeah I hope you didn't sign the contract.The delay of Rayman Legends made me decide to get a $99 Xbox 360 for my birthday instead of a $300 Wii U with which I would have no games for.
My birthday's actually the day of Sony's big announcement coming up.
Out of curiosity, any reason you opted for the subsidized Xbox 360 with the Xbox Live plan instead of buying it outright at $300 if you were willing to drop that amount of money on the Wii U anyway?
Well holy fu*k. This is why I hate living in Florida near Jacksonville. I was under the impression that Xbox Live had nothing to do with the $99 360s. The damn commercial said NOTHING about Live. Do not move to Florida if you're looking for a good job, a place to stay, and your common sanity. It just sucks down here for everyone. Sorry if that was kinda blunt =(
Also the Wii U was a long senseless story that I cannot begin to explain.
It was just a decision, no contracts or anything. So, I guess I'll have to come up with something else to get for my birthday. Don't really have any games on my mind...get a ps3 and ps+
I would love for Nintendo to be able to just keep a steady supply of high quality software and not have to worry about 3rd parties to fill in the gaps.
This. Although it would make third parties cry (See title of article), Nintendo should release a title every month for each platform - with at least one "AAA" title every quarter for each platform.
What's the tie in ratio for the average console? It's likely less than ten. If Nintendo releases 12 games a year over the course of 5 years, with four being "AAA" titles, that would give gamers 60 first-party titles (20 or which would be "AAA"). I can't imagine that wouldn't be enough to keep any casual gamer happy. And nothing keeps hard-core gamers happy, so no one should worry about keeping them happy.
This would, of course, mean Nintendo would need to get some more first-party and second party studios under their belt.
Frankly, Nintendo has shown with the N64 and the GameCube that they have the ability to support a system on their own. And that's all they need to worry about.
Frankly, Nintendo has shown with the N64 and the GameCube that they have the ability to support a system on their own. And that's all they need to worry about.
I would be mighty fine with this.
But like most Japanese/American/European/Aussies i.e. the whole world led companies, they refuse to admit mistakes.
Fixed... and yeah. Your point? That there are a lot of companies that don't admit to their mistakes.
Really? Still bitching about the name of the system? There is nothing wrong the name "Wii U".I want to agree with you, but my friend who manages a Play N Trade still has to explain to people that Wii U/GamePad isn't for Wii; it's a whole new console with a completely different controller that can't be used with Wii. That only accounts for the people who come into his store. Think of all the people who still don't know what it is because it's not super-obvious. I mean, anyone who is still miffed that it sounds lame need to get over it. There's nothing wrong with the name... except that it's unnecessarily confusing people who are too stupid and/or lazy to google it (as funny as Let Me Google That For You is, it's pathetic that it even exists). Like I said months ago, it should taper off 6 months to a year into the console's life. However, it's unfortunate that this is even an issue because it's just 1 more thing on top of everything else.
Nintendo hardware is and will always be designed around Nintendo's own needs. They don't offer the power, controller, online infrastructure, etc. that most publishers and developers want, which is the main reason they haven't gotten as much support the last three generations, and likely never will again.I think you can cross off the controller as the GamePad is exactly what they want with a screen on it and the Pro Controller is pretty fantastic. The Pro Controller is the best controller I've ever used. It mops the floor with both competing controllers (besides the inexplicable lack of a headphone jack). The online infrastructure is getting there, but it is missing universal chat which quite frankly is inexcusable in 2013. I agree with you there though I think Nintendo can patch it. Kind of pathetic that they didn't think to make it a priority to have that at launch though.
Nintendo doesn't design their hardware with third-parties in mind, nor should they.Honestly, neither has Sony and that didn't stop the PS3 (which is notoriously unfriendly) from getting solid support.
Any way to do that would involve cutting into that profit margin. You're devoting resources toward that by either cutting costs for third parties or outright paying them for support.
I think you can cross off the controller as the GamePad is exactly what they want with a screen on it and the Pro Controller is pretty fantastic.I considered that, but regardless of how accurate it is I think third-parties really do feel that they have to use the GamePad's extra features for something or people will view the games as lacking. I mean, I do recall a lot of reviews for Wii and DS games that complained about them not using the system's features. As for the Pro Controller, it doesn't come with the system so it can't really be a primary controller for a game unless it's bundled (like how Monster Hunter Tri came bundled with the Classic Controller Pro).
Any way to do that would involve cutting into that profit margin. You're devoting resources toward that by either cutting costs for third parties or outright paying them for support.
Nintendo should troll all US football gamers and pay the NFL whatever amount of money they want to secure exclusive rights to the license and players association for the 5 years once EA's deal expires then release their own football game. Would all the Madden fans buy a Wii U just for a football sim? Possibly. This will never happen, but if it did, it would be worth it just as big a "**** you" to EA.Oh god, I would LOVE this. Could you imagine all of the poo that would go flying? Internet AND IRL? Oh my.
I am not sure where to put this but if one thing about the Wii U that needs a price cut it is the Pro controller. Nintendo needs to cut that thing down to $29.99 and let more people purchase them. This way more third parties can just port over their games and use only the pro controller.
Nintendo should troll all US football gamers and pay the NFL whatever amount of money they want to secure exclusive rights to the license and players association for the 5 years once EA's deal expires then release their own football game. Would all the Madden fans buy a Wii U just for a football sim? Possibly. This will never happen, but if it did, it would be worth it just as big a "**** you" to EA.Oh god, I would LOVE this. Could you imagine all of the poo that would go flying? Internet AND IRL? Oh my.
Do it, Nintendo. DO IT.
i think its funny that alone the nintendo 3ds has sold way more 3ds's in 3 years than sony sold ps3's in 6 years.for all the bad comments that are to come its true look it up yourselfs, lol.nintendo needs to stop thinking bout everyone else.
I am not sure where to put this but if one thing about the Wii U that needs a price cut it is the Pro controller. Nintendo needs to cut that thing down to $29.99 and let more people purchase them. This way more third parties can just port over their games and use only the pro controller.Really doubt this can happen. I wouldn't complain since I don't have a pro yet, but the pro is essentially a gamecube controller with bluetooth. The gamecube controller sold for $34.99 and bluetooth is like $15. So they are right in the expected range.
Oh god, I would LOVE this. Could you imagine all of the poo that would go flying? Internet AND IRL? Oh my.I was half-joking, but when you think about it, it's the ultimate "statement" deal. It instantly boosts the console to relevance. It gives Wii U a major yearly exclusive. It forces football fans to pay attention to the platform or go without an NFL game for almost an entire generation. It's Nintendo's way of stepping up to the plate for their own hardware and sticking it to EA who simply refuses to meet them halfway on anything and is still butthurt over the Origin thing. At this point, 3rd parties would (even begrudgingly) have to reconsider supporting Wii U because Nintendo would have just undeniably scooped up a major demographic or at least the potential for it. To make this extra trollish, Nintendo could even make a deal with 2K Games to brand the football sim NFL 2KXX. They have everything to gain from this because EA had the NFL license for the last 37 years. That would strengthen Nintendo's relationship with a major publisher too.
Do it, Nintendo. DO IT.
I've always liked and been interested in break dancing so lately I've been spending time learning that.
Man, I only see this as a problem if a person does nothing but play video games. But for me, there's way so many games for me to play and keep up with in addition to other things one can do with their free time.
Personally, I have TV shows I watch regularly. In the past 3-4 years, I've been watching a ton of movies and increasing my cinematic knowledge and appreciation of that art form. I started a supper club with some friends of mine where we go out and try new restaurants in our city at least once a month. Plus, I like to do some cooking myself and trying out new recipes and ideas. I've always liked and been interested in break dancing so lately I've been spending time learning that. I'm getting close to being able to do a head spin which is awesome. Just need to work on my balance a bit more. Last year, I bought an electric guitar and a bass guitar at a garage sale and I want to start learning how to play those. As well, I do a lot of reading and decided to start reading through the encyclopedia and further increase my knowledge.
Whenever I see all these threads complaining about a lack of games being released or how third parties aren't bring games over, I'm rather thankful since I've bought more than enough games to play through already and it helps delude me into thinking that maybe I can catch up in my backlog after all. Or at least feel better in not falling further behind. Quite honestly, my reaction to a lot of this complaining is to broaden out your interests into other pursuits.
I've always liked and been interested in break dancing so lately I've been spending time learning that.
(http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=3307;type=avatar)
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Park five really nice cars outside my house and I'll show you.*sorry for the late response*