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Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: snorgasmo on May 29, 2003, 05:47:00 PM

Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: snorgasmo on May 29, 2003, 05:47:00 PM: having recently played the demo for viewtiful joe, i believe there is still a lot of potential for 2D gameplay.. i think we're getting too obsessed with huge 3D worlds and losing sight of the foundations that videogames were built on... viewtiful joe is a testament that 2D gameplay is still fun and refreshing... viewtiful joe is a testament that we have not exhausted 2D gameplay...

i for one would love to see the next mario game return to the 2D plane.. even if they have to use polygon graphics instead of animated sprites... as fun as mario64 and sunshine are, i think we can all agree that they don't quite compare to mario 1,3 (2 doesn't count ) or mario world... yoshi's island also still stands as one of the greatest platforming games ever... hell, the castlevania games on the gba are selling pretty well.. that's got to mean something... i think developers should consider 2D gameplay more often instead of defaulting to 3D... 2D is due for a comeback, and i for one, hope that viewtiful joe helps spark it...

(subliminal message, buy viewtiful joe when it comes out)
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: rpglover on May 29, 2003, 05:53:01 PM: i couldn't agree with you more- i love all of those old school 2d things
i loved the viewtiful joe demo and i love how it played
there have been rumors that the new donkey kong being made by nintendo is going to be 3d character sidescroller- like the ones on the snes
i hope that the new mario will take that direction as well- i would love a new 2d mario
also- wario world is sort of 2d- at least thats how the camera seems to have it look
ikaruga too was a good old-school shooter that i love and it is tons of fun
these are the things that should come back- i hope more 2d games will come
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Ninja X on May 30, 2003, 12:04:41 PM: Agreed. 2D gaming is great. This makes me think of all those 2D classics on the NES and SNES that remain timeless while games like Zelda 64 look outdated what with its rusty look compared to The Wind Waker.

Most of my best memories of gaming come from 2D games. One that stands out is jumping on the switch that sends Bowser plummeting to the lava for the last time and beating Super Mario Bros.

Games like Viewtiful Joe help keep the dying 2D flame bright...
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: joeamis on May 30, 2003, 10:44:18 PM: lets not forget Contra Shattered Soldier... that game looks friGGin awesome
and the new Metal Slug games coming for PS2....

I sorely miss 2d gaming, I wish it received alot more support...SIGH

P.S. Ikaruga rocks!
Title: RE: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: PIAC on May 30, 2003, 11:30:36 PM: yeah i agree whole heartedly, just because you CAN go in 3d doesn't mean you should, games done in 3d have more chance for error, and so smaller less developed skillwise teams more often than not bodge them up, yet in the 2D days, more games were better if you catch my drift.
take earthworm jim for example, the first two despite being pretty simple games were awsomely fun 2d side scrollers, yet the 3d version did not stack up in comparison, same with the Donkey Kong Country series AWSOME 2d series, donkey kong 64 well.. i didn't even finnish it.

i think you all get what im driving it even if im not eliquent enough to word it properly
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 31, 2003, 01:31:05 AM: I pre-ordered Mega Man NT and Viewtiful Joe directly from Capcom USA's site (early shipping, sometimes with a free gift).

Well son-of-a-gun, I just looked at my watch and it says 3:33 am.
Title: RE: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Mr. Jinks on May 31, 2003, 01:34:17 AM: 2D games on modern consoles don't sell. I don't consider the GBA to be a modern console, since it's essentially a portable Super Nintendo. Konami opted to make the newest console Castlevania 3D for this very reason.
Title: RE: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: PIAC on May 31, 2003, 03:41:39 AM: name one good 2D game that has come out this generation, veiwtiful joe should sell a truckload judging from everyones opinion of the game, i hvaen't heard a bad word about it
Title: RE: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: KDR_11k on May 31, 2003, 04:00:55 AM: Yeah, let 2d come back! With cel-shading it can even look like sprites with higher resolution and smoother anims.
Most complex levels in SMB aren't possible in 3d, so I hope for a 2d SMB4
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: VideoGamerX on May 31, 2003, 06:05:04 AM: 2D is going to come back. I'm sure of it. There's a catch though... there's no reason you can melt 3D graphics into a 2D-style game.

These people are supposed to be creative and innovative. They'll figure something out.
Title: RE: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Plugabugz on May 31, 2003, 06:11:31 AM: I'm not sure how Super Monkey Ball could use 2D graphics. That said, Amusement Vision are talented; I'm in awe regardless of how it comes out.

What would be really amazing is the use of 2, 3 AND 4D all in one game. But not simply, 2D here, 3D here, 4D here. I mean, in a Metroid Prime environment where all have to be used almost simultaneously to accomplish your objective in question.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: GoldShadow on May 31, 2003, 07:19:53 AM: I think there's a place for both 2D and 3D. For example, Viewtiful Joe (though I haven't played it) certainly sounds like a game that would work much better in 2D. The 2D allows for simpler directional controls and more complicated things like slow-motion effects and stuff at the same time (I also think The Matrix would work great in 2D). Games like Zelda, however, I think are destined for 3D. Though I loved LTTP, it simply can't capture the feeling of exploration as peering over a cliff to see a huge landscape before you with water stretching to the horizon... it just isn't the same in 2D.

"same with the Donkey Kong Country series AWSOME 2d series, donkey kong 64 well.. i didn't even finnish it."

I agree, but I think a *good* Donkey Kong game could be done in 3D. Just cut out the collecting, and do it in a style more similar to Rayman 2. Keep the flashy, fast-paced experience of the DKC games. It's rather sad that almost all 3D platformers have been rather slow-paced and based on collecting things since Mario 64.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on May 31, 2003, 07:36:01 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666

Well son-of-a-gun, I just looked at my watch and it says 3:33 am.

whenever i see 3.33 i immediately think of Eternal Darkness
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 31, 2003, 07:37:42 AM: Best game of all time that is 2d on a major console....

SUPER SMASH BROTHERS! I was essentially a 2d with 3d modeled characters, and that's exactly how 2d games should be.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Luciferschild on May 31, 2003, 11:11:26 AM: Well I agree too. My favorite gamecube game is ssbm. 3d games were really cool at first but like previously mentioned there is a huge degree for error and most them are extremely flawed. I don't find the gameplay quality has increased since n64 and this frustrates me cause I thought gc games would have better gameplay but it seems the graphics are just better. When done right, like Oot, Rogue Leader 2, 3d games are funner and have more potential but most of them aren't very good IMO. 3d works for some games like zelda but I'd rather see 2d for others like metroid, mario, castlevania etc...If anything they could make both. I think part of it is when we were growing up we wanted to play 2d games that had great graphics and power like the arcades but that wasn't possible back then. Now consoles are more powerful than the arcade machines were and suddenly they stop making 2d games altogether. I'm suprised that it has been shunned so much by developers. That would be hella sweet if more of them started being made though.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 31, 2003, 11:15:15 AM: I've been playing my NES emulator recently. Just finished an awesome game called Lickle, and my friends and I have started games of River City Ransom and Final Fantasy. Tis fun.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: kennyb27 on May 31, 2003, 11:29:39 AM: Quote
2D games on modern consoles don't sell. I don't consider the GBA to be a modern console, since it's essentially a portable Super Nintendo.
You can't say that. Name one good 2D game that has been released on GCN, PS2, or XBox...Heck, name one 2D game that has been released (slight exaggeration, don't take me too seriously, it's detrimental to your health). Oh, I almost forgot, Super Smash Bros. Melee: one of the best selling titles on GCN and in 2D. And I seriously think Viewtiful Joe will sell at least relatively well.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on May 31, 2003, 11:35:13 AM: I was very pleased that Sammy and SNK were at E3 with lots of old school 2D games. They were right by Nintendo's booth, even.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Mr. Jinks on May 31, 2003, 01:39:51 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: kennyb27
Quote
2D games on modern consoles don't sell. I don't consider the GBA to be a modern console, since it's essentially a portable Super Nintendo.
You can't say that. Name one good 2D game that has been released on GCN, PS2, or XBox...Heck, name one 2D game that has been released (slight exaggeration, don't take me too seriously, it's detrimental to your health). Oh, I almost forgot, Super Smash Bros. Melee: one of the best selling titles on GCN and in 2D. And I seriously think Viewtiful Joe will sell at least relatively well.
A prime example would be Ikaruga. Great game, but it wasn't a profitable venture for its publishers. Very few companies will create 2D games on modern consoles because the money just isn't there anymore. SSBM sold as well as it did because the Gamecube's launch was incredibly weak, so Gamecube owners were desparate for something.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Darc Requiem on May 31, 2003, 01:44:55 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jinks
Quote
Originally posted by: kennyb27
Quote
2D games on modern consoles don't sell. I don't consider the GBA to be a modern console, since it's essentially a portable Super Nintendo.
You can't say that. Name one good 2D game that has been released on GCN, PS2, or XBox...Heck, name one 2D game that has been released (slight exaggeration, don't take me too seriously, it's detrimental to your health). Oh, I almost forgot, Super Smash Bros. Melee: one of the best selling titles on GCN and in 2D. And I seriously think Viewtiful Joe will sell at least relatively well.
A prime example would be Ikaruga. Great game, but it wasn't a profitable venture for its publishers. Very few companies will create 2D games on modern consoles because the money just isn't there anymore. SSBM sold as well as it did because the Gamecube's launch was incredibly weak, so Gamecube owners were desparate for something.

I disagree Mr. Jinks while Ikaruga won't pull in GTA style sales or dollars, the game only had development team of 10 guys. It didn't cost much to make, they made there money back plus some on the DC version....the GC version is just icing on the cake for Treasure.

Darc Requiem
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Mario on May 31, 2003, 04:48:26 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666

Well son-of-a-gun, I just looked at my watch and it says 3:33 am.

whenever i see 3.33 i immediately think of Eternal Darkness

Yeah same, i'll probably never forget Eternal Darkness, a true masterpiece.

Anyway, a 2D Mario game on GC has so much potential, imagine wall jumping in 2D! That would be so cool, and Triple jump, backflip etc. would all work very well in 2D.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Ninja X on May 31, 2003, 05:04:45 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jinks
A prime example would be Ikaruga. Great game, but it wasn't a profitable venture for its publishers. Very few companies will create 2D games on modern consoles because the money just isn't there anymore. SSBM sold as well as it did because the Gamecube's launch was incredibly weak, so Gamecube owners were desparate for something.

SSBM sold because it was fun. It is the only game me and my Xbox or PS2 friends have played together for more than ten hours. Not only that, but it sold over two million worldwide. I don't think that was out of desperation.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on May 31, 2003, 06:44:41 PM: 2D gaming is great, but I think the consoles can take this to their advantage. 2D games were restricted in their size, diversity, and control. With the next gen of systems, we have more freedom than ever. Imagine playing a Mario game that encompassed the whole world rather than a kingdom. Instead of 20 levels, you could have 100, possibly more. In addition, we have the power of "saving" these days, so having games these large won't be a big problem for a gamer trying to beat them. I also think we can always tweak 2D into 3D, sort of what we like to call 2.5D. Viewtiful Joe is a great example of that because they used the side-scroller and added the 3D power the Gamecube can pump. The thing I want most is diversity in characters. In the Nes and Snes games, we'd just have to beat up like 500 clones of character. I'd like to beat up 500 different looking individuals.

I'd really love to play like a 200 level Ninja Turtle, side scrolling game, which would have lasting abilities.

One thing that could be cool for future online games is this: A 32 player wrestling royal rumble in 2D!!!! Or even LAN. A machine this age can easily run at 60 fps with all those characters fighting each other.
Title: RE: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: PIAC on May 31, 2003, 07:27:46 PM: i would love to see a 2D metal slug game on the gamecube, they are awsomely RSI inducing arcade games ^_^
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: The Omen on May 31, 2003, 09:25:39 PM: Once all the graphics for each system are barely recognizable from the others, we will see a return to 2d gaming...like in the next generation of hardware. 3D games were made to 'show off' the hardware...but when its reached its pinnacle, it'll go back to being fun 2d mayhem! yay! ...and Nintendo is the only company prepared to compensate graphics for good ole gameplay,and ABLE to do so, so we are in luck.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: snorgasmo on June 01, 2003, 01:28:11 AM: if i get a new 2D mario.. or even 2.5D mario i can die a very happy man... we should all email nintendo and be annoying and tell them we want a new 2D mario.. i mean christ, if not for gamecube at least for gba.. stop porting old marios.. make a goddamn new one.. please!
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on June 01, 2003, 02:25:07 AM: I really want a new 2D Mario game. It would make me wet my pants!
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: ThePerm on June 01, 2003, 06:51:35 AM: do you know how insanely realistic you can make a 2d game with prerendered sprites and prrendered backrounds?
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: kennyb27 on June 01, 2003, 08:14:30 AM: Quote
do you know how insanely realistic you can make a 2d game with prerendered sprites and prrendered backrounds?
Resident Evil meets MarioTalk about crazy.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on June 01, 2003, 02:59:29 PM: Just like the new Mario and Luigi RPG on GBA. They need one for GC. Which is more than just solving puzzles, but timely positioned actions.
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Samwise Gamgee on June 01, 2003, 08:19:24 PM: "but I'd rather see 2d for others like metroid, mario, castlevania etc"

i think metroid converted realy well to 3D, and they are still making 2D metroid games too! zero mission looks great!

thats what they should do with mario! they have the 3D mario, but the side scroller was the game everyone loved! i want to see a mario game using the GBA hardware to its potential before we get one on a high end system!

Viewtiful joe is great! i cant remember the last time i'v been so addicted to a game! and i'm only playing a demo! the game is so simple to play, yet the way you play it is so diverse! like today, i was fighting one guy, went to slow, dodged him, gave him an upper cut, started fighting the guy beside him, the guy i upper cutted hit and knocked down the chandeleer and kills the hurting other guy for me, once i was done w/ him, i jump up in the air, and did an air combo killin the other guy!

and i know thaty there are so many other abilities that u'll be able to unlock in the final version! i cant wait, this is the best game in a long time, i think for sure should win game of the year!

but i dont think it will sell! people will dismiss this game the second they see the name! but if its advertised and people see the game in action, it will kill!
Title: RE: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: PIAC on June 01, 2003, 09:02:40 PM: i actually think Viewtiful Joe is a cool name, it reminds me so much of 16bit times, but hey we will see (allthough i want to see very soon, that isn't the case)
Title: 2D needs to make a come back...
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on June 03, 2003, 01:53:33 PM: I told my friend the name, and he was like "What a f******* dumb title." Although he still likes the game because he is addicted to side scrollers.