Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: toddra on October 28, 2012, 02:42:43 PM
Title: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: toddra on October 28, 2012, 02:42:43 PM
Alright so I sold my Wii in 2009, and with it I had a ton of virtual console purchases. I created a Nintendo Account that I remember being tied to my system somehow, my questions is first, would it be possible to reclaim my old account if I bought a new WiiU console and transfer my old purchases over? Second if I did so would it interfere with the person who purchased the system from me in the first place? I sold the entire console with Virtual Console titles as a selling point because I never anticipated buying another Wii console. Now that WiiU looks actually appealing to me, I am starting to wonder if I should have freed up that account before I sold it.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 28, 2012, 03:21:06 PM
No, I'm afraid you have no way of getting your games back. The games do transfer to the Wii U, but the process requires you to have access to your Wii. Hopefully Nintendo will move toward an account system, but for right now games are tied to the hardware, so you're out of luck.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: toddra on October 28, 2012, 04:29:48 PM
That is what I thought. It's not a big deal.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 29, 2012, 01:54:10 AM
Even if you had freed up the games off the Wii...it would be impossible (most likely) to those games from you account. You would have to call Nintendo customer service and ask. I personally am in the same boat you are in.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on October 29, 2012, 03:22:42 AM
I think it's a relatively big deal. I'm not in the same boat as I still have my Wii, but for those who are it's a crappy position to be in and one which could have been completely avoided had there been even an iota of foresight. These discussions about digital licenses and the transferring of media from one device to another were being had before the Wii came out, so it's not as if the growth in downloadable content was some unexpected breakthrough for Nintendo and one which they couldn't have planned for. I'm flabbergasted, for instance, that with the 3DS it's still required to have the hardware present in order to transfer games. The profile system works!; I don't think I'll ever understand why Nintendo are so reluctant to adopt it.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Hey Einstein! on October 29, 2012, 06:57:01 AM
Here Here Pixie! This is one of the reasons I'm sticking with retail whilst I still have the choice where Nintendo are concerned. My itunes and Play Station accounts have been migrated so many times as I've bought, sold and upgraded systems over the years. The 3DS XL system transfer really put me off. The process didn't take any longer then it did to re download my PSP games when I upgraded to a Vita, but the principle is dreadful.
I am amazed at how forgiving the Nintendo fan community are of the current system.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: toddra on October 29, 2012, 02:06:54 PM
What I meant is it's no big deal, to me. Because I sold the console with games included so as far as I am concerned it's the same as when I sold my SNES carts. I still prefer playing on the original hardware whenever possible, for me the Virtual Console was about the only saving grace the Wii had going for it, until I found out I was spending way too much money on games I already had on the physical cart. It was a convenience factor but the way I see it, I have purchased Super Mario World enough times, I am okay with using "alternative" methods to play it now.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 29, 2012, 06:46:28 PM
Well, it is a bigger deal to me. I sold my Wii properly. Clean slate. Wiped the Wii memory to factory standards disconnected the games from the Wii so they could not be re-downloaded. And I have a Nintendo Account that lists which games I bought for the virtual console.
Nintendo has lost a purchase because they didn't have foresight. I will not spend all that money over again...it is foolish.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: toddra on October 29, 2012, 08:00:22 PM
Wait you really can't even recover the ones they have record of? I didn't know that I thought it was just if you didn't disconnect them properly.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 29, 2012, 08:23:21 PM
I'm flabbergasted, for instance, that with the 3DS it's still required to have the hardware present in order to transfer games.
As opposed to allowing transfers over the Internet? That has too much potential for abuse. A community like NWR, for example, could then just buy one game and send it to everyone here one by one, sending it off to the next person after they're done playing it.
I have no opinion whether it's good or bad, but I understand why Nintendo do what they do. They don't want people taking advantage and buying less games.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: MegaByte on October 29, 2012, 11:53:26 PM
I'm flabbergasted, for instance, that with the 3DS it's still required to have the hardware present in order to transfer games.
As opposed to allowing transfers over the Internet? That has too much potential for abuse.
You must have missed his next sentence. With an account system, this would not need to be an issue.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 30, 2012, 12:35:06 AM
MopitUp: Actually it needed to be account based from the beginning, and since Nintendo didn't have it account based...then they need to transfer to an account based system...and allow users to transfer even if it means people potentially cheating. Nintendo screwed up...not the general fan.
And, internet based doesn't mean cheating. Apple allows you to transfer to other accounts easily based on the internet. Nintendo's VC system should not be tied at all to consoles but accounts and allow up to 2-3 devices to download and play the games at a time. Simple. And elegant. Maybe 4-5 like Apples solution. Charge more if you must, but I think that is fair.
Now, as for people saying I could scam Nintendo with my VC games. How so? The most I could have given my games to is one person...but Nintendo should be able to check if my old Wii is attached to another account and see if it is downloading different games, and they should be able to see my virtual games at Nintendo.com are not registered to another Wii...and therefore open. If they can't...then again Nintendo did a pretty lame job setting this up and they should eat it during the transition.
Now, I understand it is my fault for selling my system and not completely understanding what I was doing by clearing the games from my Wii and deleting everything. It was my mistake...that means over 200 dollars worth of games can't be played by anyone.
Wow...that is lame Nintendo. I hope you have a system to change this because I would be in line for a Wii U day one if you did. I would buy it and happily rebuy Wii remotes, classic controllers and more, and you will have your customer back making you money again.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 30, 2012, 12:47:02 AM
How would an account system prevent what I said? You could still trade off your account with everyone.
I know that'd be better, but Nintendo like to protect their sales.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: MegaByte on October 30, 2012, 12:48:49 AM
No account system that I know of lets you trade purchases.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 30, 2012, 12:49:34 AM
Right, you trade the whole account. What stops you from doing this?
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 30, 2012, 12:53:29 AM
How can you trade off your account? If you only have it able to be connected to 2-3 consoles, and you have it connected to your Credit Card...why would you trade it off.
Do people trade off Itunes accounts? or google accounts? or amazon accounts?
No. They usually don't...but I guess they could. Sure you still need to have an account based system tied to a console...but it is more like the console is tied to the account, not the games a console.
Obviously, Nintendo did what it did...to protect its interests, and nobody can complain, because it was in the service agreement for games bought. However, it is still a lame system...and at this point even if I went to my friends house I can't reattach the games to my old system and then transfer them. So basically I made a bad decision that cost me and my friend many games, because I could of just let him have the games...but I thought, perhaps doing this will allow me to have the games later.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: MegaByte on October 30, 2012, 12:54:55 AM
Well, many systems also only allow you to use one account at a time, so it's incredibly inconvenient to have to redownload everything every time you want to play a different game. And if you have to switch accounts to play a game, you'll basically lose social-type features since those are account-specific. Is anything stopping you? Technically, no, but it's not really a usable system in practice.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 30, 2012, 01:11:57 AM
Ah, thanks for explaining. I haven't used a gaming console with an account-based system, so I wasn't sure how they worked. I was just thinking of Netflix streaming, and how I share an account with five other people. Not all of us would have our own account if we couldn't share, but that's still money lost for Netflix.
Though, in the case of the 3DS, I don't see an issue with it, other than the five-transfer limit. I guess Nintendo don't expect people to sell their system before buying a new one. We all know the ridiculous limits that Nintendo go through to prevent piracy, sounds like they're as paranoid as I am.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 30, 2012, 02:01:38 AM
Mop it Up: Apple has a limit of consoles on the service...and you can completely remove a console from the system...which means it can't play any of the movies or apps on the device until it is re added to the account. This is how Nintendo should do it...5 accounts might be too many...but I can see Nintendo doing 3. However, this would mean Nintendo would lose money...but I think it is a more consumer friendly model.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on October 30, 2012, 03:25:53 AM
@Mop it up
I was going to try and explain what I meant but everyone else has pretty much done it for me.
It would be unreasonable for us to expect Nintendo to adopt a system which is ripe for abuse. If you're the owner of a digital license for a game, however, there's no reason why that game has to be tied to one specific piece of hardware. By tying the game to a profile (which is migratable) rather than the system it not only makes the game transferrable it also removes the issue of 'swapping'. Afterall, who would want to lend their profile out when only one person can use it at a time. That would mean not havng access to all your other games or not being able to go online.
Not only that, but Nintendo could even have additional security by tying the profile to one piece of hardware in the same way that they currently do with games (i.e when you decide to swap the profile to another system the games are removed from the old hardware). The difference between doing it with each individual game and doing it with a migratable profile is that in the latter case the original hardware isn't needed in order to recover you're games. Which is the way it should be with digital licenses if you ask me.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 30, 2012, 03:37:26 AM
Not only that, but Nintendo could even have additional security by tying the profile to one piece of hardware in the same way that they currently do with games (i.e when you decide to swap the profile to another system the games are removed from the old hardware).
This is already the case with the Wii and 3DS. The 3DS basically is an account system, you just can't transfer it over the Internet. I guess I just can't think of a reason why this would be necessary. In the case of this topic, the creator specifically sold the digital purchases, and with Spak-Soang, he admits that the mistake is his. Formatting Wii system memory is the same as deleting the account, and so of course deleted accounts can't be recovered.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Shaymin on October 30, 2012, 07:49:51 AM
Well, many systems also only allow you to use one account at a time, so it's incredibly inconvenient to have to redownload everything every time you want to play a different game. And if you have to switch accounts to play a game, you'll basically lose social-type features since those are account-specific. Is anything stopping you? Technically, no, but it's not really a usable system in practice.
The PS3 let you just download and play for a while - one account could be used to log into five systems and have all of the downloads available, and you could just store them on the HDD. I know of several podcasts that abused this.
Sony stopped it with anything in the last year or so, so you could only authorize 2 systems. Still possible, just not as likely.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 30, 2012, 08:33:43 AM
I like the system Microsoft has, where you have one main system, where you can play your games at any time, and then on any other system you can log into your account and play anything of yours as long as you're logged in to Xbox Live. It gives some freedom and flexibility while preventing abuse.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 30, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
Just for the record. Mop It Up is right. It is my fault and I take full responsibility for not fully understanding what I was doing when deleting the games...and I am not blaming Nintendo...I just wish it was a better system.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on October 30, 2012, 03:20:17 PM
This is already the case with the Wii and 3DS. The 3DS basically is an account system, you just can't transfer it over the Internet. I guess I just can't think of a reason why this would be necessary.
I think it's been pretty thoroughly discussed on RFN why something like that might be necessary. For example, you shouldn't have to file police reports in order to retrieve games which you have already purchased a digital license for. You shouldn't even have to speak with Nintendo if you ask me.
This is perhaps getting away from toddra's original point, but if you lose or decide to sell a system you should be able to recover those games without the hassle of jumping through hoops. They are after all your games. Unlike with physical media, with digital games you're not paying for the physical thing you're paying for a license to access the content. If you lose, sell or upgrade the piece of hardware on which it's played I belive you should have the ability to simply retrieve it again on another if you so desire.
It speaks to Nintendo's fundamental miscomprehension about what digital is and what consumers want from it that they're so far behind their competitors in regards to these issues.
Again though, none of this is really applicable to me because a) I still have my Wii and b) I'm not buying a Wii U until the kinks are worked out and the games are there. I just hope that in this coming generation Nintendo make significant leaps in regards to content migration, because their present system is terrible and it's people who purchased games legally who currently have to deal it.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Louieturkey on October 30, 2012, 04:12:55 PM
I will just say I agree that they need an account based system. I only bought 4 total VC/Wiiware games because I didn't want to be tied to just that system. On the PS3, I've bought nearly 100 or more games on there because of the system in place. If the system was better for Nintendo and similar to Sony's approach, I almost guarantee I would have bought many more games on the system.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 30, 2012, 05:15:00 PM
but if you lose or decide to sell a system you should be able to recover those games without the hassle of jumping through hoops.
Why should you be able to get back games that you sold? The only way to get back what you sell is to buy it again, digital purchases should be no different in that regard.
I didn't think about theft though, that's a good point. I s'pose the benefit of not having physical media is that it can't be stolen.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on October 30, 2012, 06:06:56 PM
but if you lose or decide to sell a system you should be able to recover those games without the hassle of jumping through hoops.
Why should you be able to get back games that you sold? The only way to get back what you sell is to buy it again, digital purchases should be no different in that regard.
I didn't think about theft though, that's a good point. I s'pose the benefit of not having physical media is that it can't be stolen.
If you read what I wrote again you'll see I said nothing about selling the games. I was talking about selling the system, which because of Nintendo's backward system is tied to the games.
Just to give you an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about, a few months ago I came to the conclusion that I wanted to buy the 3DS XL. However, I couldn't really afford it and therefore wanted to trade my original 3DS in to put store credit towards the XL. I went into the two GAME stores in Belfast and told them what I was interested in doing, but that I really needed to keep my ambassador games as well as the other games I had downloaded. Neither store, however, had wi-fi and they would would not let me leave the store with both systems in order to try and find a hotspot to allow me to perform the transfer of games.
So I chose to simply not upgrade.
I'm now in a position where I could totally afford to buy an XL outright, but the whole experience soured me on the idea.
I partly blame the sales representatives in those stores for being so obfuscatory, but quite a lot of that blame also lies with Nintendo for being so backward about something which a resolution exists for.
Anyway, that's my story. Just thought a little context for my opinions might be in order.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 30, 2012, 06:24:24 PM
I know you said "system," but I don't know why you'd sell a system and keep the games. Well, except for the situation you just described, however the topic creator didn't trade up to a new system but rather sold the system and the games.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Soren on October 30, 2012, 06:28:12 PM
I know you said "system," but I don't know why you'd sell a system and keep the games.
Backward compatibility?
That's no issue, you can transfer your games to the next system.
As long as you still have the old system in Nintendo's case. With MS and Sony, you don't need the old systems. That is the point that is being made.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: TJ Spyke on October 31, 2012, 03:10:14 PM
With the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, you do need them for gamesaves (or did, until the Xbox 360 got cloud saves recently).
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 31, 2012, 03:16:06 PM
Not necessarily. If you have the foresight to back up your saves to a USB drive, you can transfer them without having the old system. Then again, the Wii also lets you do that via SD card, the transfer process is really just streamlining it.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Louieturkey on October 31, 2012, 03:17:48 PM
With the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, you do need them for gamesaves (or did, until the Xbox 360 got cloud saves recently).
PS+ members have had cloud saves for over a year (increased to 1 GB of space a couple of months ago). Also, if you aren't backing up your gamesaves on an external drive (the ones that aren't locked that is), then it's your own fault if you sell the system and lose those saves.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 31, 2012, 05:39:36 PM
As long as you still have the old system in Nintendo's case. With MS and Sony, you don't need the old systems. That is the point that is being made.
I don't think that was Soren's point. If you want to do a trade-in deal on a new system like Pixelated Pixies talked about then it's a problem, but otherwise you'll have your old system to transfer to the new system.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: MegaByte on October 31, 2012, 06:01:44 PM
Unless it breaks. Which is pretty common.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 31, 2012, 06:36:18 PM
Not for Nintendo products, but yeah, then you'd have to get customer service involved to transfer your games.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: MegaByte on October 31, 2012, 07:45:37 PM
It's still pretty common, at least for early adopters. The majority of the staff had to have their Wii repaired/replaced.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 31, 2012, 08:11:44 PM
Yeah, I think the Wii has had more hardware troubles than past Nintendo systems. I know I've had problems with mine twice before getting a new one, and I haven't had an issue with any previous Nintendo hardware. But we're also heavy users of the system, I wonder what the percentage is of overall hardware. I'd think it's certainly less than the Xbox 360 and PS3, and not nearly high enough to be considered common.
In any case, I don't really buy digital games so I've never contemplated the issues of Nintendo's account system with the 3DS. There are workarounds to some of the problems that can come up, but I see now how it's inconvenient to have the account tied to a 3DS system. It's fine for my needs though. And of course I also understand why Nintendo set it up that way, but hopefully in the future they will become a little less paranoid.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on October 31, 2012, 08:31:35 PM
I've said it once but I'll say it again, we should all have the ability to sell or give away our hardware independent of the games themselves. You might argue 'what's the point in keeping the games and not the system?', but a question like that gets away from the more important question. Why should we be expected to tolerate an inflexible system which puts the onus on consumers to prove their ownership of the content?
Whenever I hear people try and prop up Nintendo's approach to digital content migration they focus on the question of why people would need to migrate games without having the original system present, instead of focusing on the more important question of why owners of digital licenses aren't being given more flexibility.
To question why a more flexible system is needed is not only naive, it's also besides the point. If I pay for the game I expect to reserve the right to access that content regardless of what happens to my hardware.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: MegaByte on October 31, 2012, 08:33:51 PM
But we're also heavy users of the system, I wonder what the percentage is of overall hardware.
Balance that with all the Wiis gathering dust. It probably won't break if you don't use it.
Title: Re: Hypothetical situation involving transfer of Virtual Console accounts
Post by: Mop it up on October 31, 2012, 08:41:42 PM
Except I wasn't propping up Nintendo's approach, I was legitimately asking. Like I said, I don't buy digital games, so I didn't know what kinds of things people wanted out of it or where they were running into issues. Nintendo's system works fine for my needs.
I do think it's still an important question though. Shouldn't I ask for the reasons why you want a feature? Why ask for a feature that doesn't get used? I already have your question of why digital context isn't more flexible, that's exactly why I don't buy digital games because physical gives me the right of ownership. And I still don't see why you'd keep your games for a system you sell and don't plan on buying a new one.
