Community Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: tendoboy1984 on August 09, 2012, 10:44:38 AM
Title: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: tendoboy1984 on August 09, 2012, 10:44:38 AM
Are these new app stores for Mac OS X and Windows 8 going to take away consumer freedoms? In the past, you could download software from anywhere on the internet. Now everything is being put in a centralized web store. Does that mean we will no longer be able to download stuff from actual websites?
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 09, 2012, 11:06:03 AM
What's to stop you from opening up your browser, heading to some software company site or piratebay or whatever, and getting your software there?
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: tendoboy1984 on August 09, 2012, 11:08:52 AM
Oh I know that, but it seems Microsoft and Apple want to take the app experience from their mobile devices and implement it into the PC world.
On that note: Why can't mobile devices freely download software from anywhere on the internet? On a mobile device, you're forced to use a specialized app store. You don't have any of those restrictions with a PC.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 09, 2012, 11:17:31 AM
Well, it's fine to have another *option* on PCs, even if you don't use it. I don't think I would use it, either.
Quote
Why can't mobile devices freely download software from anywhere on the internet? Why do they need app stores? PC's have had that luxury for decades, so why can't mobile devices have that same freedom?
The companies that make them like money. It's kind of an unfortunate situation. I chose an Android phone because it's more practical for not dealing with DRM, sticking it to the man, and making it do what I want.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 09, 2012, 12:37:27 PM
Why can't mobile devices freely download software from anywhere on the internet? On a mobile device, you're forced to use a specialized app store. You don't have any of those restrictions with a PC.
Have you ever used an Android phone before? Settings>Security>Unknown Sources (at least on ICS) <-- check that box and you can download and install anything you want, from anywhere you want.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 09, 2012, 01:06:38 PM
I don't know much about what Microsoft's doing with their App Store, but the Mac App Store is entirely optional (unless the software developer doesn't offer their product any other way, which some don't). I can go to any random corner of the Internet and install whatever I like if I want to, and I do for a lot of things that don't fall under Apple's TOS for the App Store. It doesn't restrict consumer freedom, it just offers the ability to browse a centralized market, which I like a lot for most things.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: ThePerm on August 09, 2012, 02:11:50 PM
Actually, it might be a good thing. It would be nice to be able to download things from a trusted place, and it also might be less hassle. I haven't really used an app store because i still have an old phone. Theo only ones I have used are the Wii Shopping Channel and Steam.
This will be especially helpful for old people.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: Morari on August 09, 2012, 09:53:42 PM
Are these new app stores for Mac OS X and Windows 8 going to take away consumer freedoms?
That's certainly the plan.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 10, 2012, 07:41:03 AM
No, it's not Morari. And I don't see you whining that you can only download Xbox 360 games from Microsoft, or PlayStation 3 games from Sony.
And the Windows 8 App Store will just be for apps developed specifically for it. You can just develop general apps and have it listed in the store (but it can't be purchased there). And the plan is for Microsoft to let people try an app for 7 days before they have to decide to buy it or not.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 10, 2012, 10:40:51 AM
Yes, it is. All the DRM bullshit that will be associated with it = plan to take away consumers' freedoms.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 10, 2012, 12:10:23 PM
How is having one centralized store with one login any worse than each app having its own separate serial number and activation system? The Mac App Store DRM is more lenient than most, since I can install the software on every Mac I own with one purchase and once you have it installed you have it for good without having to reactivate at all.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 10, 2012, 10:15:38 PM
I'm talking about Windows. I don't think having a centralized store is a bad thing, but ONLY having that one store is.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: tendoboy1984 on August 11, 2012, 12:19:54 AM
I don't know much about what Microsoft's doing with their App Store, but the Mac App Store is entirely optional (unless the software developer doesn't offer their product any other way, which some don't). I can go to any random corner of the Internet and install whatever I like if I want to, and I do for a lot of things that don't fall under Apple's TOS for the App Store. It doesn't restrict consumer freedom, it just offers the ability to browse a centralized market, which I like a lot for most things.
Mobile app stores like iTunes and Windows Phone Marketplace DO restrict consumer freedoms, since they are the only ways of downloading content to those devices. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned the risk of having an app store on a computer. Microsoft and Apple might decide make it the only way to download software to your computer.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: SixthAngel on August 11, 2012, 01:04:45 AM
How is having one centralized store with one login any worse than each app having its own separate serial number and activation system? The Mac App Store DRM is more lenient than most, since I can install the software on every Mac I own with one purchase and once you have it installed you have it for good without having to reactivate at all.
With only one store you have one company that can control what you buy. While seperate numbers might be a pain in the ass they don't compare to a monopoly store. Imagine if GameStop was the only store you could buy games from.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 11, 2012, 10:12:20 AM
I don't know much about what Microsoft's doing with their App Store, but the Mac App Store is entirely optional (unless the software developer doesn't offer their product any other way, which some don't). I can go to any random corner of the Internet and install whatever I like if I want to, and I do for a lot of things that don't fall under Apple's TOS for the App Store. It doesn't restrict consumer freedom, it just offers the ability to browse a centralized market, which I like a lot for most things.
Mobile app stores like iTunes and Windows Phone Marketplace DO restrict consumer freedoms, since they are the only ways of downloading content to those devices. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned the risk of having an app store on a computer. Microsoft and Apple might decide make it the only way to download software to your computer.
Your freedoms are not being restricted. You don't HAVE to use those phones, for example. You are not losing anything from a closed device having one provider. I don't see you bitching about consoles having only one download service.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: nickmitch on August 11, 2012, 11:49:30 AM
Does anyone else notice that we keep having some of the same discussions over and over?
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 11, 2012, 11:53:58 AM
Hey guys, am I the only one that thinks Nintendo needs to do more to bring in third party support?
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: Morari on August 11, 2012, 01:23:45 PM
Blah, blah, blah! I hate personal freedoms! Blah, blah, blah! I'm enthralled by my corporate overlords! Blah, blah, blah! Please pass the anal lube!
Well, at least you're being honest in a conversation for once. :-\
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 11, 2012, 01:53:55 PM
For those who hate App stores, the solution is obvious: switch to Linux.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 11, 2012, 02:08:04 PM
"install linux problem solved"
not like Windows 8 won't be hastily cracked wide open though.
Can we move this thread to the funhouse yet? I want to use more police brutality allegories and hyperbole
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 11, 2012, 03:08:51 PM
I can't decide which is worse, being stuck with only one way of getting software that's locked down by Microsoft, or having to use Linux. Both too horrifying to consider.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 11, 2012, 07:43:05 PM
I honestly don't even do that much with my computer besides go online and every now and then play something on PCSX2 or something. I'd probably be better off switching to Linux, though my wife would hate me.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: Do_What on August 15, 2012, 09:52:04 AM
General consumers like app stores. They're easy and convenient. You can have some sort of shopping experience as opposed to having to know exactly what you want and going to get it. It is easier to browse when there are a bunch of different products right in one place. You can search the internet for "photo editing programs" or "screen capture tools" and have to do a lot of hoping to find something good, or you can go to the app store and there are four or five of each kind of program you can easily compare. It's not for everyone, but for a lot of people it's great. The most important thing is that none of this is mandatory. Steam is still going to exist (despite all of Gabe Newell's whining). You can go buy games there, or on origin, or buy physical copies, or go to specific publisher or developer websites or gog, or pretty much anywhere else you want to go. Nothing is changing about that. There's just a storefront for people to use if they choose. You can download phone apps from the internet. You do not have to use the Play store or even Amazon's app store. There are plenty of places to go to find phone apps if you really really want to. Thing is, there's a good chance the apps you want are in one of those two stores. Also, if you buy an iphone that's your choice. You're choosing to lock yourself into that ecosystem. Even there, if you choose, you can jailbreak it and do what you want with that phone as well. Video game consoles are really the last bastion of the super walled garden. Those even break down over time. Xbox is hacked to high heaven as is the PS3. The 3DS and the Vita are holding out, but it shouldn't be more than a year or so before both of those are busted open and homebrew communities pop up around them.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: tendoboy1984 on August 17, 2012, 07:31:47 PM
General consumers like app stores. They're easy and convenient. You can have some sort of shopping experience as opposed to having to know exactly what you want and going to get it. It is easier to browse when there are a bunch of different products right in one place. You can search the internet for "photo editing programs" or "screen capture tools" and have to do a lot of hoping to find something good, or you can go to the app store and there are four or five of each kind of program you can easily compare. It's not for everyone, but for a lot of people it's great. The most important thing is that none of this is mandatory. Steam is still going to exist (despite all of Gabe Newell's whining). You can go buy games there, or on origin, or buy physical copies, or go to specific publisher or developer websites or gog, or pretty much anywhere else you want to go. Nothing is changing about that. There's just a storefront for people to use if they choose. You can download phone apps from the internet. You do not have to use the Play store or even Amazon's app store. There are plenty of places to go to find phone apps if you really really want to. Thing is, there's a good chance the apps you want are in one of those two stores. Also, if you buy an iphone that's your choice. You're choosing to lock yourself into that ecosystem. Even there, if you choose, you can jailbreak it and do what you want with that phone as well. Video game consoles are really the last bastion of the super walled garden. Those even break down over time. Xbox is hacked to high heaven as is the PS3. The 3DS and the Vita are holding out, but it shouldn't be more than a year or so before both of those are busted open and homebrew communities pop up around them.
Hacking? Where in my post did I even mention that? Hacking and homebrew has nothing to do with buying stuff from an app store. I don't care about hacking or homebrew, so why did you bring it up?
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 17, 2012, 08:52:34 PM
It has a lot to do with your post if you're juxtaposing app stores against consumer freedom. There's certainly going to be an alternative to an app store if you can modify your device.
Hack the planet. Free Kevin!
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: ShyGuy on August 17, 2012, 09:17:39 PM
Ubuntu Linux has their own app store: https://apps.ubuntu.com/
But there are a few alternatives as well.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: tendoboy1984 on August 17, 2012, 09:19:29 PM
It has a lot to do with your post if you're juxtaposing app stores against consumer freedom. There's certainly going to be an alternative to an app store if you can modify your device.
Hack the planet. Free Kevin!
No no no. When I mentioned "consumer freedom", I meant the freedom to purchase and download software from anywhere on the internet. The restrictions of app stores like iTunes and Windows Marketplace are more of a burden for consumers, since they act like a middle man for people who want to download software. Get rid of the middle man, let consumers choose what they want to download, and where they want to download it from.
Apple and Microsoft are forcing people to download stuff through their app stores. If mobile devices were given less restrictions, I'm sure many people would be happy. I know about Android, but that's an exception to the rule.
Isn't the internet supposed to be "free" (no restrictions)?
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 17, 2012, 10:04:28 PM
Free access to info, there are still restrictions (just like in real life). You can't go into McDonald's and expect them to serve you Burger King food. So Apple has the right to say where you can buy stuff on an iPhone.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 18, 2012, 12:18:13 AM
That's not really a good analogy. Practicality aside, I have the right to buy software from Red Lobster and install it on my iPhone.
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: ShyGuy on August 18, 2012, 12:30:21 AM
RED lobster? That's subtle communist brainwashing
Title: Re: PC/Mac "app stores"
Post by: ThePerm on August 18, 2012, 12:32:07 AM
here is a question? Which do I prefer, being forced to only use a program on one computer? Or having a license to use the software on any computer provided I've registered it with an account?
