Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: ejamer on July 19, 2012, 01:51:45 PM
Title: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: ejamer on July 19, 2012, 01:51:45 PM
Interesting release on DSiWare this week - an actual dev studio of sorts that allows users to create programs in a version of BASIC. Hobbyists and people interested in banging out their own content will likely find this curiosity worth grabbing, although the app is somewhat limited in scope... it is just a simple BASIC development tool after all, not a full DS dev-kit. But being able to create your own content and then share with others via QR codes is pretty cool.
I'm starting this thread as a place to share resources and (hopefully) programs that NWR users create. But first, here are some links to tools and samples that anyone working with Petit Computer might be interested in:
Petit Computer, official website -- http://www.petitcomputer.com/ (http://www.petitcomputer.com/)
PTCUtilities, unofficial PC/Mac editing suite -- http://micutil.com/ptcutilities/top_e.html (http://micutil.com/ptcutilities/top_e.html)
Trek, a port of the old Star Trek BASIC game -- http://www2.u-netsurf.ne.jp/~ozawa/startrek/startrek.html (http://www2.u-netsurf.ne.jp/~ozawa/startrek/startrek.html)
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Kairon on July 19, 2012, 01:56:59 PM
This is going to be so friggin' awesome...
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Shaymin on July 19, 2012, 05:19:35 PM
I might have to pick this up if only to see if I can recreate Thy Dungeonman.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Discostew on July 19, 2012, 06:34:03 PM
I might have to pick this up if only to see if I can recreate Thy Dungeonman.
Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.
I'm going to purchase Petit Computer the moment I get home from work today.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Lithium on July 20, 2012, 01:36:09 PM
This seems pretty cool as an introduction to programming for someone who's never done it before. even though basic isn't used anymore afaik the skills could be transferable to other languages
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: ejamer on July 20, 2012, 03:12:24 PM
This seems pretty cool as an introduction to programming for someone who's never done it before. even though basic isn't used anymore afaik the skills could be transferable to other languages
I've heard mixed reports about this. Some people swear that learning anything other than OOP paradigms from the start is a waste and actually makes it harder for people to "do things right" later. I think that's overstated BS, personally... but everyone is allowed to have their own view on the matter.
The only downsides as an introduction to programming is that Petit Computer doesn't really give you any goals or workshops to start learning with. It has a decent user manual, but focuses only on reference material and not really teaching anything. So if you want to use this as an self-taught introduction then be prepared to get creative, experiment when things don't work, and find outside references to help get some ideas. (Reading and updating code from other programs is really useful too.)
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Discostew on July 23, 2012, 06:38:14 PM
I am rather frustrated by the method they want us to have assets for our programs. It is nice that they give us the option to LOAD stuff like CHR, MEM, etc, but why must they include that awful sound accompanied by that command? They gave us an option to disable the dialog box with it, but no such feature with the audio?
In all honesty, I don't mind that sound with SAVEing, but there will be so much more LOADing than SAVEing in a single game that it gets annoying. The only method I can think of to avoid that is......have all assets as DATA within the PRG itself.....that just doesn't sound feasible for anyone programming straight on the DSi/3DS.
There are PC tools that can make all this easier, but the current program has crashed so many time on me that I've tossed out that option until those bugs are cleared up.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: ejamer on July 23, 2012, 08:15:12 PM
I am rather frustrated by the method they want us to have assets for our programs. It is nice that they give us the option to LOAD stuff like CHR, MEM, etc, but why must they include that awful sound accompanied by that command?
SYSBEEP=FALSE
Give that a shot before loading the resources.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Discostew on July 23, 2012, 08:51:10 PM
I am rather frustrated by the method they want us to have assets for our programs. It is nice that they give us the option to LOAD stuff like CHR, MEM, etc, but why must they include that awful sound accompanied by that command?
SYSBEEP=FALSE
Give that a shot before loading the resources.
Thanks, that did the trick.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Tamazoid on July 25, 2012, 12:07:25 PM
I'm actually interested in learning about programming, i'm currently a complete novice in the area. Does anyone with knowledge in this area think this is an alright starting point to learn the basics about programming?
Cheers
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Discostew on July 25, 2012, 01:51:24 PM
Now I've run into another problem. Is there any way to erase an array that was set with DIM without CLEARing all variables made? I can't use DIM to re-dim an array, and there is no REDIM command. The program I'm working on is meant to allow loading a level that can differ in sizes from other levels, and comes along with other things like CHR and PAL animations for the backgrounds, each also differing in sizes. Am I to just go ahead and make a large single/double array for each, and limit the data to those sizes?
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Kairon on July 25, 2012, 02:52:11 PM
I'm actually interested in learning about programming, i'm currently a complete novice in the area. Does anyone with knowledge in this area think this is an alright starting point to learn the basics about programming?
Cheers
This is actually a pretty hardcore way of picking up programming in my opinion. It seems very old-school, and lacks a ton of user-friendly functionality and features that you would get if you tried to ease into programming in a traditional education today. I almost think Petit Computer would be a great way for people who already know a little bit about programming to discover a bit of programming's more hardcore facets.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: MegaByte on July 25, 2012, 03:22:26 PM
Yeah, BASIC is a pretty terrible language for learning modern programming. I'd recommend something like JavaScript, which you can easily experiment with in a browser.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Discostew on August 03, 2012, 03:28:31 AM
This is what I recently made with Petit Computer. A WIP obviously from the look of it.
First, this is incredible. Dare I ask how long it took to put this together?
Second, the death animation is awesome. Totally cracked me up. ;)
I started about 2 weeks ago (part of it during my camping vacation since this last Sunday). Everything was created manually, as I had no option to import anything. 1232 lines at 30.7K bytes (excluding tileset and sprite CHR/COL files). The DATA dedicated to the level layout is about 400 lines alone, but I can probably reduce that using simple RLE compression.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: MegaByte on August 05, 2012, 12:35:58 AM
That's awesome. And I'm glad this finally got released in North America.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Discostew on August 11, 2012, 03:57:56 AM
This is not good. Not good at all. I just found out how many lines of code can be executed within a single frame's worth of time with Petit Computer.
2000 lines of code. Sounds like a lot of lines? Believe me, this is minuscule even by standards back in the 80 with the NES running with a 1.79Mhz 8-bit CPU. All I did was make a FOR-NEXT loop that did 5000 iterations with nothing inside within a GOTO loop that checked the MAINCNTL variable for how many frames had elapsed since the last call, and at 5000 iterations, it came to around 5 frames.
Yes, I know this is an interpreted language, but even using the DSi's 133Mhz 32-bit CPU and taking into account the RAM read-delay glitch, I would have expected much better results. I honestly can't see how I can continue my Megaman 2 project under this limitation.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: UncleBob on August 11, 2012, 03:14:28 PM
Consider it a challenge. :D
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Discostew on August 11, 2012, 04:06:35 PM
Indeed. I'm having to find clever ways of getting some operations done with as little looping as possible, since that seems to be the main reason for my program slowdown.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Discostew on September 27, 2012, 03:37:50 AM
My first demo of MM2 PTC is available on my website - http://lazerlight.x10.mx/ (http://lazerlight.x10.mx/)
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: ejamer on October 13, 2015, 07:29:29 PM
Hahaha... Anyone who missed Discostew's enhanced port of Mega Man 2 to PTC should go back and check it out now - because the new version of SmileBASIC for 3DS consoles is set to release on Thursday. You can already see the listing in your 3DS eShop, but can't download yet.
Although it will still be underpowered compared to any "real" programming standards, the original DSiWare app was pretty cool and the new 3DS replacement looks to be even better.
Title: Re: Petit Computer (DSiWare)
Post by: Stratos on October 28, 2015, 02:09:26 AM
Thanks for the heads up. I missed the first one and would be interested in one for the 3DS. I was a pretty talented BASIC programmer back in the day on my TI-83. Made my own games and passed them around the school. A lot of people did not believe I had created them.
My peak was a turned based version of StarCraft. I had to construct "scenarios" since I had no concept of AI, but it was fun to make and my friends who tested it thought it was cool.
