Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 06, 2012, 11:43:30 AM
Its fun to think that he turned on them for the "Lulz", but really he probably just did it for a reduced sentence to save his own skin.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: ShyGuy on March 06, 2012, 11:56:36 AM
If Morari doesn't post today, we'll know what happened.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: ShyGuy on March 07, 2012, 01:16:10 AM
Seriously, Morari hasn't posted all day, I think he was a member of Lulzsec.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: broodwars on March 07, 2012, 01:18:15 AM
And there was much rejoicing, and the way this group was taken down makes it all the more so. It's nice to see these kind of hackers publicly humiliated (which probably does far more to deter hackers than merely arresting one or two once in a while)...for once.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 07, 2012, 02:28:29 AM
And there was much rejoicing, and the way this group was taken down makes it all the more so. It's nice to see these kind of hackers publicly humiliated (which probably does far more to deter hackers than merely arresting one or two once in a while)...for once.
booooooooooooo. All their targets had it coming and I hope other hackers are more careful in the future!
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: broodwars on March 07, 2012, 02:45:57 AM
And there was much rejoicing, and the way this group was taken down makes it all the more so. It's nice to see these kind of hackers publicly humiliated (which probably does far more to deter hackers than merely arresting one or two once in a while)...for once.
booooooooooooo. All their targets had it coming and I hope other hackers are more careful in the future!
We have a system of laws for a reason. You can't just do whatever you want because you believe the people you're doing it to deserved it. Why don't we just let all the murderers on death row go free? How about all the rapists and child molesters as well while we're at it? After all, most of them probably believed their "targets had it coming"?
You break the law, you go to jail. If you don't like the law, you fight to have it changed. That's how it should be. It's not a perfect system and there's been and there probably still is corruption in it, but it's the best one we have and it's worth fighting for.
And by the way, considering how quickly the leader of this "principled" group "fighting against The Man" gave up his followers, apparently his cause wasn't so "Just" after all. And before you bring up that he was doing it so his kids could still have their father, bear in mind that if he was a real father he wouldn't be putting his kids at risk by doing all that illegal activity to begin with. Someone who's willing to do that has no sympathy from me.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 07, 2012, 03:56:43 AM
One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
Do I think laws effectively written by large money interests are unjust? Yep.
Quote
Why don't we just let all the murderers on death row go free? How about all the rapists and child molesters as well while we're at it? After all, most of them probably believed their "targets had it coming"?
lol nice strawman
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: broodwars on March 07, 2012, 04:08:01 AM
Why don't we just let all the murderers on death row go free? How about all the rapists and child molesters as well while we're at it? After all, most of them probably believed their "targets had it coming"?
lol nice strawman
It was crude but necessary to make my point. The concept of "I think they have it coming so I can do whatever I want to them" is so spectacularly vague and morally suspect that it necessitated some extreme examples.
Everything in our government has a check and balance. If those laws you despise so much really were so "unjust", they'd be shot down by the courts (which they continually do). If you feel our lawmakers or judges are corrupt, whose fault would that be....oh yes, that would be the fault of your typical idiot voter who put the scum into office, and then continually re-elects the scum because they're too lazy to research the issues and their candidates. But I'm sure it all sounds much better blaming the system instead of the people whose job it is to watchdog their lawmakers: the voters. It's the job of the Press as well, but sadly the vast majority of that industry has chosen to work along party lines so they can't be depended upon.
If you don't like the system, do your due diligence and elect people who aren't corrupt scum to represent you. Otherwise, you deserve what you get. And that goes for all political parties, by the way. But of course, it's never your lawmakers that are the problem. Your lawmakers, naturally, are decent and honorable people who only have your best interests at heart. It's everyone else's lawmakers that are the problem, so it's ok for you to just send those people continually back to Washington and not perform your duty as a responsible citizen.
And I think that's as much of a political rant as I'll dare to do.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 07, 2012, 04:26:27 AM
This thread is getting dangerously close to political posting but I think we can agree to keep this discussion nonpartisan at least :X
Quote
Everything in our government has a check and balance. If those laws you despise so much really were so "unjust", they'd be shot down by the courts. If you feel our lawmakers or judges are corrupt, whose fault would that be....oh yes, that would be the fault of your typical idiot voter who put the scum into office, and then continually re-elects the scum because they're too lazy to research the issues and their candidates. But I'm sure it all sounds much better blaming the system instead of the people whose job it is to watchdog their lawmakers: the voters. It's the job of the Press as well, but sadly the vast majority of that industry has chosen to work along party lines so they can't be depended upon.
The system works in theory, but in practice it does break down on occasion (see: the MLK Jr quote in my first post. Did you catch it?). To mount any kind of campaign at all in the U.S., at least at the state level, you have to be beholden to all sorts of special interests/campaign contributors. There's really no way around it and it's impossible to have a shot if you don't. I'm getting that we have a lot of common ground here in that we agree a great deal of U.S. voters and press are bad at their job. I think we have a tyranny-of-the-majority situation here, but I don't know if you'll agree with me on that. Especially since I think money is standing in for people a little too much.
Also a lot of judges in the U.S. are appointed and not elected depending on the state and level.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: broodwars on March 07, 2012, 04:52:16 AM
This thread is getting dangerously close to political posting but I think we can agree to keep this discussion nonpartisan at least :X
Oh, I don't think we're going to have a partisan argument here. I can find plenty to dislike about all the political parties, including my own (officially registered) Libertarian party. It doesn't sound like you're particularly fond of such things either, so I think we'll get along fine there.
Quote
The system works in theory, but in practice it does break down on occasion (see: the MLK Jr quote in my first post. Did you catch it?). To mount any kind of campaign at all in the U.S., at least at the state level, you have to be beholden to all sorts of special interests/campaign contributors. There's really no way around it and it's impossible to have a shot if you don't.
Actually, I did miss the MLK Jr. quote, and didn't see what I assume it is until I started looking for unquoted, unlinked sentences.
Well, while what you say is undoubtedly true to a great extent, there have been notable exceptions. For example, look at the Tea Party. They were a bunch of really angry citizens fed up with corruption within the political system who fought to produce change. They organized, held rallies, and got their movement well-known on TV and radio. Eventually, they became a strong enough political force that they managed to elect politicians that held their ideals. Regardless of whether you agree with those ideals, they proved that it was possible. To a much lesser extent, the Occupy folks accomplished a similar goal, though I have major issues with how they went about it. Still, they also managed to get their issues circulated into the public consciousness, so that's a victory for "the little guy" in its own way.
When enough people give a damn and are willing to fight for their ideals, change can be produced without the money and the "entangling alliances" as it were. But, once again, it requires that people care beyond the things that immediately affect their everyday lives.
Quote
I'm getting that we have a lot of common ground here in that we agree a great deal of U.S. voters and press are bad at their job. I think we have a tyranny-of-the-majority situation here, but I don't know if you'll agree with me on that. Especially since I think money is standing in for people a little too much.
I think we might disagree on what the "majority" is that is the tyranny, but I do agree that there is one. For me, it's the tyranny of the uneducated, uncaring voter who either don't vote or vote only for what will immediately benefit them in the short-term. Money takes hold in the political system because those giving it know the public cares so little that they can get away with it. I suspect you believe otherwise. You brought one quote, and I'll see you two more from Winston Churchill:
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
and
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."
Quote
Also a lot of judges in the U.S. are appointed and not elected depending on the state and level.
Ah, but the people do elect the people who appoint the judges, so there is some indirect responsibility there on the voter. ;)
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 07, 2012, 05:06:18 AM
Okay. I like that post. We're getting along here. We're doing it!
But I've gotta pose this question: at what point would you approve of civil disobedience?
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: broodwars on March 07, 2012, 05:12:48 AM
But I've gotta pose this question: at what point would you approve of civil disobedience?
Let me put it this way: I believe the US Declaration of Independence states that the people have a right to start a revolution against their government if it becomes corrupt and dictatorial. I am a firm believer in the political values of the Founding Fathers. When it comes to civil disobedience, the cause had better be worthy and the injustice clear.
Groups like Lulzsec and Anonymous do what they do because they're bored and they think they can get away with it, not because they truly have a great cause they believe in. There's a difference between disagreeing with a law because it's unjust and disagreeing with it because you think it takes away your fun, and that's where I draw the line with a lot of hackers. That's what differentiates someone like Rosa Parks with Anonymous in my eyes.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 07, 2012, 06:47:19 AM
I think a number of anons do what they do for legimate reasons. They certainly claim to care about things on their various twitters/blogs. We'll just have to agree to disagree I think!
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 07, 2012, 06:51:20 AM
SUPER, I've got to say I've lost a lot of respect for you after seeing you having a civil, reasonable, level-headed discussion in this thread.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 07, 2012, 08:23:06 AM
Why don't we just let all the murderers on death row go free?
We sure do seem to have a lot of U.S. soldiers walking around amongst us freely...
It's an Orwellian coup if ever there was one. Fund and run a counter-culture group with the goals of attracting young revolutionists? I just hope that next time, they actually call it The Brotherhood.
Anyone that's legitimately joyous over this is living in a bubble that their corporate masters have constructed around them. Stop fighting to defend the very system that keeps you enslaved. Open your eyes, wake up, and face the truth. You can't fight corruption within the confines of the law, as the laws themselves only exist to empower and embolden the corrupt.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Ian Sane on March 07, 2012, 12:08:52 PM
When Anonymous hacked Sony they stole the credit card numbers of innocent people. That could have been my credit card number. I only follow laws because I either morally agree with it or the oppression of the law is so minor that it is not worth my while to make trouble for myself over it. But I don't side with anyone who brings innocent people into it. That's terrorism. Fight the people that are actually responsible. I do not subscribe to the idea that anyone that isn't with you is against you.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: nickmitch on March 07, 2012, 12:44:34 PM
Weren't they stealing credit card info to spite Sony? I mean, the real inconvenience falls on to the people who need to get new cards, but that does put a lot of egg on Sony's face. They weren't stealing credit card info to buy ****, were they?
Not that I'm condoning it; I'm just saying the intent wasn't to harm the innocent. Though it did.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: ShyGuy on March 07, 2012, 01:30:49 PM
Hey, they haven't captured Morari yet!
You dirty liberals have turned my Lulzsec thread into a political thread!
UNCLEBOB LOCK THIS THREAD BEFORE I DROP SOME KNOWLEDGE
Title: Re: ShyGuy's Official Politics Party Thread
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 07, 2012, 02:23:44 PM
When Anonymous hacked Sony they stole the credit card numbers of innocent people. That could have been my credit card number. I only follow laws because I either morally agree with it or the oppression of the law is so minor that it is not worth my while to make trouble for myself over it. But I don't side with anyone who brings innocent people into it. That's terrorism. Fight the people that are actually responsible. I do not subscribe to the idea that anyone that isn't with you is against you.
It is also Sony's fault for putting innocent people in harms way by having such a shitty level of security of customer personal information that allowed the whole thing to happen in the first place.
Title: Re: ShyGuy's Official Politics Party Thread
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 13, 2012, 09:22:03 AM
YAY THE THREAD IS BACK. Please move it to the funhouse post-haste!
Also anybody that doesn't agree 100% with my political views is a fascist
(http://i.imgur.com/UJ6sq.jpg)
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: oohhboy on March 13, 2012, 05:09:12 PM
I am staying out of this one, but I will leave this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-17355203), that (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17286690) and this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17350225) here. Asinine strawmen are unwelcome. Also Rosa Parkers was not remotely the first, she simply got the most attention (http://www.cracked.com/article_19076_5-important-people-who-were-screwed-out-history-books.html). In fact she was a 100 years late (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Jennings_Graham) or nine months late since the first person to take the stand on the same buses was "Inconvenient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin)".
I will stay out of this thread seeing super doing a swell job. ^^^^I am with stupid.
Edit: Cat drugs
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 13, 2012, 05:59:14 PM
Wow, her name was Rosa Parks. You're racist.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: oohhboy on March 13, 2012, 06:04:32 PM
Oops, too many cat drugs.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: ShyGuy on March 13, 2012, 06:44:54 PM
It's time to trash bag the fighting games thread...
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 13, 2012, 08:13:20 PM
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 14, 2012, 12:07:27 PM
So Rosa Parks wasn't actually the first? Its amazing how you can learn stuff on this forum even when you don't expect it.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Morari on March 14, 2012, 01:10:20 PM
Oh, and by the way, Christoper Columbus didn't discover North America. Unless you count con-men mistakenly running ashore, then committing genocide as "discovery".
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 14, 2012, 07:07:18 PM
Oh, and by the way, Christoper Columbus didn't discover North America. Unless you count con-men mistakenly running ashore, then committing genocide as "discovery".
Most discoveries are accidental, and that's what Colombus' discovery was. He believed until his death what he had reached was the Orient. It was a good thing the Americas just happened to be there, because Columbus had miscalculated the circumference of the Earth and without America being there him and his crew would have starved to death long before reaching the Orient as he had intended.
But he wasn't even the first white man to discover America. It has been proven the Vikings had him beat by about 500 years, and its also possible others had made it here also but those are as yet unproven. Nevertheless, Columbus' discovery was still significant because the discovery made by the vikings was unknown or forgotten.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 14, 2012, 07:18:11 PM
Call it whatever you want, Columbus' journey was hugely significant because it made Europe aware of the existence of the Americas. The oppression of the indigenous people, as horrible as it was, was pretty much inevitable, so it's not really fair to place the blame on Columbus.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 14, 2012, 08:29:36 PM
christopher columbus was a monster that deliberately murdered every indian on the continent with his bare hands. 9/11 was an inside job. google ron paul. kill your parents
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 14, 2012, 09:08:21 PM
christopher columbus was a monster that deliberately murdered every indian on the continent with his bare hands. 9/11 was an inside job. google ron paul. kill your parents
The oppression of the indigenous people, as horrible as it was, was pretty much inevitable, so it's not really fair to place the blame on Columbus.
You mean "as horrible as it still is", I assume? The oppression of the Native American persists to this day. Though really... manifest destiny? I assume that black slavery was just another one of those inevitable and unavoidable periods in history, huh? :-\
Columbus was little more than a con artist, siphoning wealth from the Spanish crown. The world was known to be round at the time, and had been for untold ages. The idea that their was a large continent east of Europe was also not new. Columbus did nothing of significance, as you absolutely cannot discover a land that is already densely inhabited. Hell, he wasn't even the first European to hit North America's shores. The Vikings were all about it in the eleventh century, and even Italy's own Johnathan Cabot made the voyage prior to Columbus.
Columbus deserves plenty of blame, as the published journals of his crew will attest to. He was an absolutely vile man, even before he decimated entire islands' populations. European fielded censuses show that upward of 90% of the Taino people had been killed only 50 years after Columbus' landing. While the effects of European filth--such as small pox and syphilis--would have been unknown, the inhumane treatment of friendly natives was an altogether different subject. His second voyage to "India" was little more than an invasion, with the intent of appointing himself to power. This resulted in outright slavery and direct genocide. Of course, the Spanish was all about this, given the tributes of gold and cotton they were sure to receive from abroad.
The very notion that America has instituted and celebrated something as awful as "Columbus Day" should tell you everything you need to know about the country. This is a nation that is proud of its bloody heritage. It celebrates it every October, it carves it into mountains in the sacred Black Hills of South Dakota. A history of lies, theft, broken treaties, and outright genocide. It should be something that every American is ashamed of. Yet it continues this very moment through the corruption of the corrupt Bureau of Indian Affairs.
Columbus gets a national holiday because he was too stupid to find India. We push all of the negativity aside so that we can instead celebrate "European Accomplishment" instead. Well then, I propose that we institute a Hitler Day. Think about it... Hitler caused the Volkswagen to be created, after all, and the Autobahn. His leadership of Germany led to jet propulsion, significant advances in rocket telemetry, laid the foundation for genetic engineering. Why not celebrate his bona fide accomplishments on behalf of humanity rather than "dwelling" so persistently on the genocidal by-products of his policies?
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 14, 2012, 11:11:37 PM
With how much land and how many resources were there in the Americas and how much more powerful the Europeans were than the natives, it was only a matter of time before they were overrun. I'm not defending it; it was horrible, and it didn't need to be as bloody and harsh as it was, but there's no way it wasn't going to happen. I wouldn't necessarily put slavery in the same category.
And you definitely can discover land that's already inhabited, in at least some sense of the word. If we found a planet with intelligent life somewhere in the galaxy would you say that we didn't discover it because those lifeforms already knew they were there?
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Caliban on March 14, 2012, 11:13:42 PM
But he wasn't even the first white man to discover America. It has been proven the Vikings had him beat by about 500 years, and its also possible others had made it here also but those are as yet unproven. Nevertheless, Columbus' discovery was still significant because the discovery made by the vikings was unknown or forgotten.
I've seen coast maps made by Portuguese Templars dated to the 1300s. Then again the Templars were a secret organization, and so the public did not know of their "discoveries".
And besides, Columbus was nothing compared to what others had done in the era of discoveries.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 14, 2012, 11:30:11 PM
I heard it's still technically legal to shoot indians from a covered wagon in my state
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 15, 2012, 12:05:09 AM
Columbus was an asshole in his own right. I know he isn't to blame for everything Europeans did in the New World, but he himself enslaved and murdered the natives directly, both during his voyages and later when he was the governor of Hispaniola. He established the precedent that was to follow.
Quote
but there's no way it wasn't going to happen.
The Spanish were the worst of all in the treatment of natives, and the rest weren't exactly saints either, but the French more or less just traded with the natives for furs and stuff. They even allied with the natives to fight the British during the French and Indian war, which you can see in the movie the last of the Mohicans. So I disagree that it "had to happen". If England and Spain had been as benevolent to the natives as France was then there would probably be 10 times as many natives around today as there are.
Another good example would have been Japan, which was on a medieval pre-industrial level when European traders arrived. Did Europeans conquer Japan and enslave the Japanese and force them to convert to European religions? No. Actually what happened was Admiral Perry helped them figure out how to build railroads and things like that of their own, so Japan became the industrialized nation it is today.
There is no reason Europeans couldn't have just traded with the Aztecs and Maya and so forth and showed them how to make firearms and build factories and things like that. That was what happened with Japan, after all.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 15, 2012, 12:11:09 AM
Japan is small and resource-poor. It's an entirely different situation. And what I meant was inevitable was European nations stealing the land and the resources. The bloodshed could have been a lot less, and may very well have been if someone besides the Spanish had been the first to go in.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: ShyGuy on March 15, 2012, 12:47:13 AM
Does Hitler Day fall on a weekend this year? I can't take anymore time off work, but y'know, HITLER DAY. You gotta do what you gotta do.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 15, 2012, 01:15:19 AM
Well if it's anything like Columbus day, regardless of when it falls it's celebrated on a Monday.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 15, 2012, 01:24:26 AM
Hitler Day should be celebrated on April 30th, because that was the day he committed suicide. That deserves celebrating, right? The holiday could be kinda like Guy Fawkes day where we burn Hitler effigies.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Sarail on March 15, 2012, 01:24:50 AM
Well, that's that then. Columbus Day is no more to me. I shall be celebrating Hitler Day on that Monday. G'day, everyone. G'day, indeed.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: UncleBob on March 15, 2012, 01:26:10 AM
But...black slavery started...in Africa...way before anyone ever even thought of trying to find a new route to India...
Slavery existed all over the world since before recorded history. The ancient Romans, Greeks,and Egyptians all practiced it as well. The last country in the world to abolish slavery was Saudi Arabia in the 1960s. That's not to say it doesn't still exist, but at least now its illegal everywhere.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 16, 2012, 12:34:29 AM
That's not to say it doesn't still exist, but at least now its illegal everywhere.
Ironically, there are estimates that there are more slaves now than at any point in history even though it is technically illegal in every country.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 16, 2012, 12:38:57 AM
That probably has something to do with there being about 6 billion more people now than at the last time it was legal on any kind of wide scale.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 16, 2012, 12:44:33 AM
I suppose that is doesn't help that some countries don't actually enforce their anti-slavery laws.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: ShyGuy on March 16, 2012, 12:55:19 AM
Is a sentence of community service slavery? It is forced labor.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 16, 2012, 01:02:38 AM
Community service is done to repay a debt, in this case to society for a breach of the law. Working off a debt is not slavery. You can't be born into community service, and it has a predetermined end point.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: ShyGuy on March 16, 2012, 01:11:53 AM
Not in modern times, but people used to be thrown in debtor's prison. Their children could even be born into debtor's prison.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: UncleBob on March 16, 2012, 01:31:35 AM
Of course, you've always got your various sex slaves, sex traffickers and underage prostitution rings, both overseas and here in the states.
Just guessing, without any real facts at hand, I'd say a large percentage of today's slaves are in some way directly related to the sex trade industry.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 16, 2012, 02:00:06 AM
UNICEF estimates that there are about 1.75 million sexual slaves (current estimates are about 12 million total worldwide)
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 16, 2012, 02:50:50 AM
That probably has something to do with there being about 6 billion more people now than at the last time it was legal on any kind of wide scale.
I've heard if you took the sum total of every currently dead person who ever lived throughout all of history and added them all up, the amount would be less than the people who are currently living.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 16, 2012, 03:18:39 AM
That can't be right, unless you're using a very recent date for the start of history.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 16, 2012, 03:19:25 AM
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 16, 2012, 03:23:19 AM
According to 2007 study in Scientific American, the Earth would need to have a current population of about 100 billion for that to be true (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fact-or-fiction-living-outnumber-dead (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fact-or-fiction-living-outnumber-dead)).
Edit: S-U-P-E-R beat me to it.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on March 16, 2012, 11:00:47 AM
So the word on the street is that LulzSec was an FBI trap from the very beginning
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: King of Twitch on June 16, 2012, 03:23:14 PM
Golly, I sure hope I'm not arrested from overseas by large media corporations in the future
Don't break the law by hacking websites and you have nothing to worry about.
Yeah, I have to side with TJ Spyke on this one. This isn't some morally gray area like a guy arrested for hacking his own property. The guy was hacking the computers of others, including the Pentagon's if I read that article correctly. The guy deserved to get caught and he deserves to spend time in prison.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 16, 2012, 09:20:59 PM
Yeah man **** criminals, they don't deserve any rights. He's not an American citizen so maybe they could have just saved some money and killed him with a unmanned drone.
Meanwhile, it seems like he may not be extradited: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jun/15/lulzsec-ryan-cleary-escape-extradition-us No mention of the Pentagon in this article for some reason. Did they drop that charge or something?
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: broodwars on June 16, 2012, 10:00:44 PM
Yeah man **** criminals, they don't deserve any rights. He's not an American citizen so maybe they could have just saved some money and killed him with a unmanned drone.
I really don't know how you jumped to that from "He committed a crime, and he deserves to be in prison". No one was saying anything near what you sarcastically suggested.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 16, 2012, 10:01:34 PM
Well it's the funhouse, I'm in full on hyperbole mode :faust:
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 16, 2012, 10:11:57 PM
More seriously though, of course he should go to trial. Extradition to the U.S. though? No way. And it seems like the UK authorities are potentially with me on this one.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 16, 2012, 10:41:12 PM
If he hacked the Pentagon and other U.S.-based computers why shouldn't he have to face trial in the U.S.?
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 16, 2012, 11:10:26 PM
He can be tried for those charges in the UK, according to the Guardian article.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 17, 2012, 12:11:55 AM
The article doesn't say the the UK government is considering it, just that his attorney will try to make it happen and only because US authorities would consider dropping the extradition request if the UK authorities charge him with the same crimes.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: UncleBob on June 17, 2012, 12:37:45 AM
Before this gets too political, let me say - the US Government is not Team America: World Police.
The UK Government has a right - and a responsibility - to protect the citizens under the crown from foreign powers who wish to do them harm. Just the same as our government does. If some random country came in and started accusing our citizens of crimes, I would fully expect our government to step up to the plate and make sure things are kosher.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 17, 2012, 01:05:18 AM
Before this gets too political, let me say - the US Government is not Team America: World Police.
The UK Government has a right - and a responsibility - to protect the citizens under the crown from foreign powers who wish to do them harm. Just the same as our government does. If some random country came in and started accusing our citizens of crimes, I would fully expect our government to step up to the plate and make sure things are kosher.
I'm not saying they should hand over anybody to anyone for any reason. Britain and the U.S. are very close allies, and I'm sure they have a formalized extradition treaty that would stipulate the terms of something like this. If an American hacked British sites I'd expect the U.S. government to hand him over to the Brits for trial if they wanted him.
This is an interesting time for judicial systems, as it's now possible, thanks to the internet, to commit a crime in a country without ever entering it. Although now that I think about it there was a Simpsons episode featuring that idea that didn't use the internet at all, so maybe it's not that new.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 17, 2012, 01:30:23 AM
I hear the extradition treaty they have now is kind of one-sided in the U.S.'s favor... I hear that's a thing.
I can't really imagine the U.S. handing over one of their citizens without at least a lot of footdragging, bargaining, or bad juju for whoever signs off on it.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: UncleBob on June 17, 2012, 01:34:28 AM
Insanolord: Perhaps - perhaps not. That's fully and 100% for the UK courts to decide. NOT the US Government.
Pretty sure all this hacking and silliness falls under freedom of speech...
"hacking" might fall under freedom of speech. Hacking, no, does not.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 17, 2012, 01:44:12 AM
Well yes, they could ignore the treaty or interpret it in such a way that doesn't require them to do it and say no to the U.S., and because of that they technically have more say in the matter than the American government does, but realistically that's not really the case.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: UncleBob on June 17, 2012, 01:46:07 AM
I'd be willing to bet, there's a lot of wiggle room in that agreement...
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 17, 2012, 01:49:26 AM
Between those two countries, it would seem likely. But I'd be willing to bet that the real deciding factor of whether or not he'll be extradited is whether or not the U.S. wants him to be.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: UncleBob on June 17, 2012, 02:09:22 AM
Well, I said they had a right and responsibility to make sure it's on the up-and-up.
Didn't say they would. :D
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 17, 2012, 09:03:52 AM
Queue the song.
Americaaaa, **** yeah!
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: ShyGuy on June 17, 2012, 01:02:36 PM
Give the man a job in our Cyber war against Iran.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 20, 2012, 01:22:47 PM
No I'm not. Apparently it is illegal to export stuff like computers to Iran, so how would they get them unless they manufactured them locally? And if they manufactured their own computers locally, odds are they are going to be fairly primitive.
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Crimm on June 21, 2012, 12:11:23 PM
Computers are made in many countries...
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 25, 2012, 04:14:06 AM
Where's Morari lately? We need to hold hands and talk about how our love burns, like a cop on fire
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: oohhboy on June 25, 2012, 08:57:15 AM
What kind of petrol/oil ratios do you use? Or do you prefer something more sticky?
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 25, 2012, 09:14:23 AM
Half and half if you can, use kerosine for the rag, and the nicest bottle you can find. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/3xm22.jpg)
edit: this is the post that finally puts me on a watch list
Title: Re: Lulzsec has been taken down
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 25, 2012, 07:25:01 PM
