Nintendo World Report Forums

NWR Interactive => Podcast Discussion => Topic started by: StrikerObi on July 30, 2011, 04:56:33 PM

Title: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: StrikerObi on July 30, 2011, 04:56:33 PM

Guess what we talk about on this episode.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newscast/27303

This week, the Newscast crew talks a lot about Zelda, again. Was Twilight Princess really as bad as we think it was? Is Skyward Sword the for-real first game in the Zelda timeline? Will Majora's Mask be re-released on 3DS? What's up with the 3DS anyway? Is the whole of handheld gaming in trouble? How many questions can I include in this summary? You'll have to listen to find out!

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Shaymin on July 30, 2011, 10:19:06 PM

I believe Neal was referring to the Nuzlocke challenge (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Nuzlocke_Challenge).

The basic rules:

- 1 catch per route
- If it faints, it's dead

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on July 31, 2011, 02:42:50 AM

Hooray! A piece of media on the internet that says good things about Twilight Princess! How novel.
Big thumbs up to Andy for seeing the light. The rest of you... we'll get there eventually. As a little correction, Zach claims that the Wolf elements are thrown away a third of the way through the game, but if he had actually played it in the last 4 years, he would know that once you obtain the ability to change forms on the fly, the Wolf is used in every subsequent dungeon.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Kytim89 on July 31, 2011, 03:20:42 AM

There is still room for improvement on the Wiimote. For starters, Nintendo could release a Wiimote 2.0 that has a built-in rechargable battery, better speaker and wireless nunchuck support. Also, Nintendo could add two more buttons to make this new Wiimote like the SNES in the same way that the current controller looks like an NES pad.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 31, 2011, 05:24:35 AM

They won't do that, at least until the Wii U comes out. I don't see any new games supporting this new Wii Remote since few people would own it. It would be even worse than Wii MotionPlus support since existing Wii Remote owners could use it too. Plus, they would have to make the controller wider since there is no room on the current controller for two more buttons.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: farnham on July 31, 2011, 12:25:21 PM

I find the notion that Twilight Princess was bad in any way completely ridiculous

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: NWR_Neal on July 31, 2011, 12:34:50 PM

The beginning is awful. That is my only complaint.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Retro Deckades on July 31, 2011, 01:56:06 PM

Quote from: NWR_Neal on July 31, 2011, 12:34:50 PM

The beginning is awful. That is my only complaint.

Haven't listened to the podcast yet, so bear with me.

By "awful", do you mean slow to get going? Because if so, one could argue that the beginning of every 3D Zelda game is awful. However, I could see people feeling that the game takes longer to reach it's stride than others.

That being said, I friggin' love Twilight Princess. Whenever I hear someone attempt to belittle it by saying that it's too similiar to Ocarina of Time, I have to chuckle because I happen to enjoy it more. To me, Twilight Princess surpassed my every expectation while Ocarina of Time unfortunately did not.

While still a great game, I always felt like Ocarina of Time was missing something. Of course, I was hyped beyond belief for that game. I anticipated it 24/7, so when I played it I expected to be blown away at every turn, but I just wasn't. Twilight Princess, on the other hand, had continuous moments where I marvelled at what I was experiencing while I played (in the interest of brevity, I won't list them in this post, but if anyone is curious, just ask). I fully believe that this game has the best dungeons in any 3D Zelda game and some of the best in the entire series.

I recall hearing an NWR staffer remark on one of the podcasts that they were hyped for Ocarina of Time because it was A Link to the Past but in 3D. I've always felt that a more apt comparision would be OoT and Zelda II, specifically because the worlds seem sparser, and because both A Link to the Past and Twilight Princess are more fully-realized as games.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: NWR_Neal on July 31, 2011, 02:31:26 PM

That is exactly what I mean. My problem with TP is Ordon Village. Having gotten past that on my current playthrough, that is my entire problem with the game. Other than that, it is a great game.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Kytim89 on July 31, 2011, 02:49:00 PM

Quote from: TJ Spyke on July 31, 2011, 05:24:35 AM

They won't do that, at least until the Wii U comes out. I don't see any new games supporting this new Wii Remote since few people would own it. It would be even worse than Wii MotionPlus support since existing Wii Remote owners could use it too. Plus, they would have to make the controller wider since there is no room on the current controller for two more buttons.

I am refering to the one and two buttons located at the bottom of the Wiimote and it would not take up too much space to add two more buttons to the controller if they are relatively small.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Retro Deckades on July 31, 2011, 04:35:04 PM

Just finished listening to the episode, guys. I thought it was one of the best Newscasts for a while. I love hearing everyone weigh in on the same topic.

Also, if you ever need inspiration for a feature topic, perhaps you could look back at something that made Nintendo headlines on the same day in the past and discuss the noteworthy aspects of it or something related to it.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Yoshidious on July 31, 2011, 04:51:04 PM

Quote from: OneTwenty on July 31, 2011, 01:56:06 PM

I recall hearing an NWR staffer remark on one of the podcasts that they were hyped for Ocarina of Time because it was A Link to the Past but in 3D. I've always felt that a more apt comparision would be OoT and Zelda II, specifically because the worlds seem sparser, and because both A Link to the Past and Twilight Princess are more fully-realized as games.

I'm not absolutely certain that you're referring to me here, but I have remarked in the past that I was incredibly excited about "Zelda 64" in the run up to its release because I was expecting it to be much like A Link to the Past but in a fully 3D environment. Of course, this expectation could only be based on a combination of preview coverage and my imagination--not the finished product of Ocarina of Time--so there was no actual comparison being drawn between LttP and OoT in my remarks about being hyped up for it.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Retro Deckades on July 31, 2011, 07:25:48 PM

I thought that might have been you, Greg, but I must have taken that somewhat out of context. I was under the impression that that was an after-the-fact comparison.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: fordrob on August 01, 2011, 08:06:50 PM

I'm not bringing this up to criticize, but rather to share an amusing anecdote: it sounds as though Scott's audio is slightly delayed - this caused numerous incidents throughout the show where it sounded like the other guys were just cutting him short and talking over him. I couldn't help but chuckle whenever it happened even though I knew it was coming, unintentional, and merely the product of a technical snafu rather than what sounded like blatant disrespect for the noob.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 01, 2011, 09:42:43 PM

I did love Twilight Princess the first time I played it. The overly long introduction to the game was probably obscured by my fascination with the new controller, fresh art style, etc. I adore the soundtrack and think the overworld is well designed, though unfortunately segmented.


A couple of years after its release, I went back to play through Twilight Princess again... and could never finished it. The game drags on far too long and is poorly paced throughout. A good example is how you have to turn into the wolf to teleport, then usually transform back to Link at your destination to actually do anything useful. The other big problem, which Zack addressed on the show, is that the most interesting part of the game is eradicated about 1/3 through the quest. Unlike all the other Zelda games, 2D or 3D, this is the one that I may never complete twice. That doesn't take away from its impact that first time through, but it does hurt the legacy of Twilight Princess and will always taint it for me when compared to other Zelda games.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: pureval on August 01, 2011, 11:38:47 PM

This podcast made me decide to go back and play through the game again, for the first time since it came out. So far I am enjoying it. I kind of enjoy the slow build up in the beginning, I like having a reason to care about what is happening in the world and the ability to see the relationships the characters have for myself.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: oksoda on August 01, 2011, 11:48:18 PM

Quote from: fordrob on August 01, 2011, 08:06:50 PM

I'm not bringing this up to criticize, but rather to share an amusing anecdote: it sounds as though Scott's audio is slightly delayed - this caused numerous incidents throughout the show where it sounded like the other guys were just cutting him short and talking over him. I couldn't help but chuckle whenever it happened even though I knew it was coming, unintentional, and merely the product of a technical snafu rather than what sounded like blatant disrespect for the noob.

Oh trust me, I'm sure it was deliberate. They know I save my best stuff for the end of my sentences. Assholes.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Ceric on August 02, 2011, 10:44:33 AM

Quote from: oksoda on August 01, 2011, 11:48:18 PM

Quote from: fordrob on August 01, 2011, 08:06:50 PM

I'm not bringing this up to criticize, but rather to share an amusing anecdote: it sounds as though Scott's audio is slightly delayed - this caused numerous incidents throughout the show where it sounded like the other guys were just cutting him short and talking over him. I couldn't help but chuckle whenever it happened even though I knew it was coming, unintentional, and merely the product of a technical snafu rather than what sounded like blatant disrespect for the noob.

Oh trust me, I'm sure it was deliberate. They know I save my best stuff for the end of my sentences. Assholes.

Wait a minute... Aren't you editing this?

Quote from: Jonnyboy117 on August 01, 2011, 09:42:43 PM

...
A couple of years after its release, I went back to play through Twilight Princess again... and could never finished it. The game drags on far too long and is poorly paced throughout. A good example is how you have to turn into the wolf to teleport, then usually transform back to Link at your destination to actually do anything useful. The other big problem, which Zack addressed on the show, is that the most interesting part of the game is eradicated about 1/3 through the quest. Unlike all the other Zelda games, 2D or 3D, this is the one that I may never complete twice. That doesn't take away from its impact that first time through, but it does hurt the legacy of Twilight Princess and will always taint it for me when compared to other Zelda games.

That was my first play through.  I thoroughly enjoyed the game until he was locked in the castle and then I felt whats the point.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: KDR_11k on August 02, 2011, 05:15:20 PM

I once read that players remember the beginning and end of your game the most so you should make sure those are the strongest parts. TP didn't do that, the end wasn't terribly great either (I remember it for having a stupidly specific trigger for ending the sword fight with ganondorf, you get so many combat options that it took me a long time to even attempt parrying his attack since I could just dodge and counterattack easily). That leads to bad memories despite having a strong middle.

The only Zelda that needs a complete overhaul remake IMO is Zelda 2, there's a good game buried in there but stuff like the limited lives and restart system tarnish the game badly.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Ceric on August 02, 2011, 05:27:27 PM

Agree but, I would also take the stance that all of the 3D Zelda's are remakes of Zelda 2 at there core.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: oksoda on August 03, 2011, 04:00:10 PM

Actually Ceric, Mike and I alternate editing every two weeks. This one was his.  :P:

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: noname2200 on August 03, 2011, 04:21:56 PM

Put me in the "doesn't like Twilight Princess" camp. And unlike some of the other "haters," it's not just the beginning that I hate (although it's a horribly slow start). I thought the pacing was generally bad, and from the beginning the wolf mechanic was always a chore rather than a pleasure. It had the same problem that most other items in that game did; it was functionally necessary in a handful of situation, and useless or unfeasible throughout the vast majority. Add to that how I thought the story was generally uninteresting-yet-abundant, and how I hated the overworld,* and it's the only Zelda game I've played which I had to force myself to finish.

But then I adore Majora's Mask and Zelda II, and think Wind Waker is just an average Zelda title, so I'm probably in the minority here.

*Andy's point about Ocarina's overworld being just as empty is well taken, although aside from Majora's I've disliked all the 3D Zelda games' overworlds. Wind Waker's would have been great, but the vast amount of empty space between islands, combined with needing to change the wind direction, spoiled that for me.

Quote from: Ceric on August 02, 2011, 05:27:27 PM

Agree but, I would also take the stance that all of the 3D Zelda's are remakes of Zelda 2 at there core.

You'll have to explain that one to me. Because in my mind, Zelda II is the most-different (....) game from the 3D ones.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Ceric on August 03, 2011, 04:24:08 PM

Quote from: oksoda on August 03, 2011, 04:00:10 PM

Actually Ceric, Mike and I alternate editing every two weeks. This one was his.  :P: :

Really,  I'm surprised he didn't mess with you more.

Quote from: noname2200 on August 03, 2011, 04:21:56 PM

...

Quote from: Ceric on August 02, 2011, 05:27:27 PM

Agree but, I would also take the stance that all of the 3D Zelda's are remakes of Zelda 2 at there core.

You'll have to explain that one to me. Because in my mind, Zelda II is the most-different (....) game from the 3D ones.

Really? 

Zelda 2 was the first in the series with jumping, Magic, a Non-top down view, more active shielding,  active character interaction (you have to actually talk to people instead of going up to them), pretty much have your sword.  Not to mention you get the shorter sword.  I really need to replay it to get more. 

I guess maybe its not right to say that they are remakes but they borrow a lot of core concepts in my opinion.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Lithium on August 03, 2011, 10:59:37 PM

there are two reasons why I cant bring myself to replay twilight princess

1) the beginning, espesially when you have to fish with Collins defective fishing pole

2) that second time they force you to fish at lake hylia

It takes forever... Yes I know real fishing also takes forever but im not a fan of real fishing either.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 04, 2011, 04:26:41 AM

Ocarina's certainly not LTTP in 3D (though if the legends are true, Miyamoto started out by trying to remake LTTP in 3D to be a launch game for the N64). Ocarina of Time's actually a good game. /tooeasy

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: noname2200 on August 04, 2011, 05:43:50 PM

Quote from: Ceric on August 03, 2011, 04:24:08 PM

Zelda 2 was the first in the series with jumping, Magic, a Non-top down view, more active shielding,  active character interaction (you have to actually talk to people instead of going up to them), pretty much have your sword.  Not to mention you get the shorter sword.  I really need to replay it to get more. 

I guess maybe its not right to say that they are remakes but they borrow a lot of core concepts in my opinion.

I suppose. But in my mind most of the stuff listed either showed up in LttP/AoL, or it was made necessary by going 3D. To me, Zelda II is in most ways the opposite of the 3D games: fast-paced action is the core of the game, while starting with OoT the emphasis has shifted away from fast-paced combat and more towards puzzle-solving and story.

Title: Re: Episode 63: Zeldacast Strikes Back
Post by: Ceric on August 04, 2011, 05:46:25 PM

I can go with that.