Post by: MysticGohan on May 08, 2003, 08:34:18 PM
I hope they add it in, 3 or 4 GBA's is too much to expect most people to have, especially in my case. That's a really expensive controller if that's the case. And another problem is battery consumption unless you have an GBA SP, I hope more info comes out and hope they have an option were GC's controllers can be used instead of the GBA.
Post by: RickPowers on May 08, 2003, 08:36:11 PM
Post by: MysticGohan on May 08, 2003, 08:46:38 PM
I'll use the GBA
but I would like to play with four players, and I would like the GC controllers as there's noway I could get 3 GBA's, that becomes a problem. Do you know anything Rick? So in theory one person can use the GBA as a controller and what not and the other players can use the GC controllers?
Also when people are playing with you in the overworld, can other players wonder off? or do they follow whom ever the leader is?
Post by: Mr_Denim on May 08, 2003, 08:49:05 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 08, 2003, 08:57:41 PM
Quote
Shigeru Miyamoto has been keeping an eye on this project and has offered plenty of advice for the development team, although Final Fantasy¡¯s legendary creator Sakaguchi-san has yet to really see the game for himself.
That's totally freaking awesome.
Quote
However, in a nod to Square¡¯s classic Chrono Trigger, players can combine their attacks and magic to form combo attacks¡perhaps even pooling the actions of all four players into one giant ¡°Quadruple Tech¡±.
This is also totally freaking awesomely radical. Something I hated about Chrono Cross was that combo techs were dropped almost completely. I am VERY happy to see it return.
Quote
All of the cinema scenes are presented in real-time¡there are no FMV sequences, as have become practically synonymous with the Final Fantasy series since its move to disc-based systems.
YES YES YES YES YES!!!! I think I might have an orgasm right here and now!
Quote
With a completely new action based system and very little in common with the Final Fantasy series,
*lights up a cigarette*
Fan-freaking-tastic.
This game just rose to my #2 most wanted GameCube game.
Post by: MysticGohan on May 08, 2003, 09:02:36 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 08, 2003, 09:08:23 PM
Quote
In another odd twist, the GameCube controller can be used if just one player is on the quest, but with multiple players, everyone must use a Game Boy Advance.
I'll be using my GBA thank you very much. The other ports will likely remain open.
Quote
producer Akitoshi Kawazu, who has previously worked on the SaGa and Seiken Densetsu series.
I hated SaGa. I liked the earlier Seiken Densetsu games though, so it balances out.
Quote
and in an effort to make players identify with their characters, you are able to choose from a variety of characters, and even specify a gender.
This worries me. It indicates that the game might not have much character development at all. The story looks pretty solid though, so I hope it's enough to keep the game from being boring. I am thinking mainly of Seiken Densetsu 3 here. The game allowed a great deal of this sort of customization, but the story kind of fell flat with me, as it was a little *too* dynamic. I prefered the more linear Secret of Mana.
But I have yet to see that part of the game, so it's just a small worry at this point.
Post by: Gamefreak on May 08, 2003, 09:13:47 PM
After all, no one is going to expect someone to buy 4 of the same consoles so their friends can play.
And besides, don't the other people you are going to play with have GBA's?
And you can play by yourself too...
Post by: John Squire on May 08, 2003, 09:31:59 PM
Post by: MysticGohan on May 08, 2003, 09:33:53 PM
I was hoping the GC controllers would suffice.
There better be something on this ay E3 or I'm gonna be dissappointed.
Post by: MutFox on May 09, 2003, 12:04:10 AM
This game has been high on my List of games to buy, just because I miss Multiplayer games.
And if it requires all players to have GBA's I'm gonna be peeved.
Cause I don't own a GBA and I really don't need one at the moment.
If I can't play this game Multiplayer with GC Controllers, I'm not getting it...
Oh well there is Always TMNT.
Post by: MutFox on May 09, 2003, 01:50:30 AM
I really miss Co-op games for the Console.
Post by: PIAC on May 09, 2003, 02:27:40 AM
me on the other hand, i have 2 gbas and no friends
seriously :\
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 03:20:44 AM
Post by: egman on May 09, 2003, 05:08:44 AM
I'm still excited by the game. I'm not likely play multiplayer anyway so that will not be a problem. However, I don't think the ball was dropped the ball with the multiplayer. I haven't played PSO multiplayer so I don't know how that game deals with stats and stuff, but I can imagine that this idea is bit more practical.
There is still development time, so if there are enough cries, I'm guessing Square will throw in a GC controller option.
Post by: OldMan Nintendo on May 09, 2003, 06:38:11 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 09, 2003, 07:20:37 AM
Great point. My brother and I each have a GBA but we only have one GBA/GC Link Cable and it kind of sucks if I have to buy another one just for one game. And what the hell is the GBA even used for in this game? So far it sounds like it's used entirely for "secret info" or something like that. What they hell do you need "secret info" for a CO-OP game?! I'm beginning to get the feeling that the whole GBA/GC link up feature in this game is tacked on in order to fulfill an agreement between Nintendo and Square and realistically isn't required for the game's design. Either that it's it one of those nifty ideas in theory that doesn't work well in reality. Seriously in a co-op game what do you have to keep private?
The more I find out about this game the more average it seems to look. I really hope I'm just mistaken and it'll be a huge hit at E3.
One thing I do like though is that it seems to focus on gameplay more than story. Too many of Square's games focus too much on story and as a result are boring as hell.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 09, 2003, 07:26:15 AM
If those GBAs are used to hide info, I hope for hidden attributes as well (like "reduces luck of all other party members by 1"). But I wonder how coop will work when you cannot trust your neighbour and everyone wants those dropped items? And will the GC controllers be used to their full potential or be restricted to the level of the GBA?
Post by: Zelda on May 09, 2003, 07:36:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey NinjaDamn this game looks sweet. I have been REALLY nervous about this game since I have hated almost all of Square's recent games, with the exception of Vagrant Story (and that's not all that recent anymore). (I haven't tried FFX or Kingdom Hearts though). The thing that did it for me was this line.
You really don't want to try Kingdom Hearts.
Quote
Shigeru Miyamoto has been keeping an eye on this project and has offered plenty of advice for the development team, although Final Fantasy¡¯s legendary creator Sakaguchi-san has yet to really see the game for himself.
That's totally freaking awesome.
Uh, not really, I doubt he's doing that much.
Quote
All of the cinema scenes are presented in real-time¡there are no FMV sequences, as have become practically synonymous with the Final Fantasy series since its move to disc-based systems.
YES YES YES YES YES!!!! I think I might have an orgasm right here and now!
uh... fmv looks a lot nicer so I'd rather have FMV. OMFG IT'S A MOVIE IF IT'S NOT REAL TIME!!!!!!!11111111111 What's so terrible about FMV? I don't care whether it has fmv or not but hating FMV just because it's FMV is dumb.
Post by: MysticGohan on May 09, 2003, 08:30:20 AM
If that's the case that's stupid, It's a niffty feature at best but as I've started I only have one GBA, the only goodthing about that is if I could use the GBA as a controller which would give me the ability to have 4 controllers "one GBA" "3 GC controller" Assuming this configuration works.
That I wouldn't mind, I just would like other people to jump in and play without a need for a gba.
If the GBA isn't required for every player to have than that would be fine with me. I hope at E3 Square-Enix will reveal more about this setup.
Post by: Michael8983 on May 09, 2003, 08:48:59 AM
Sounds like it would be a big problem with this game because of how customizable the gameplay is. The cut-scenes will presumably have to be different depending on the number of players, the characters chosen, etc...
FMV just wouldn't work for that. Square would have to make many different version of each FMV to reflect all the different gameplay scenereos. Real-time cut-scenes are just the obvious choice for a game like this.
Post by: Zelda on May 09, 2003, 09:52:20 AM
Post by: boggy b on May 09, 2003, 10:34:52 AM
1) Sakaguchi isn't involved? WTF?
2) Why doesn't he want to try Kingdom Hearts. It's fun.
3) I think a game that needs even ONE £70 controller is bad enough, but FOUR?
Post by: ThePerm on May 09, 2003, 10:46:45 AM
Post by: Modulus-X on May 09, 2003, 11:47:53 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 12:00:37 PM
Post by: Uglydot on May 09, 2003, 12:04:12 PM
Post by: MysticGohan on May 09, 2003, 12:10:56 PM
I hope the GC controllers will be use instead of actually needing multiple GBA's.
Post by: EggyToast on May 09, 2003, 12:12:36 PM
It's a great idea -- there's no other way you could do a good co-op RPG without some seriously annoying menu thingies going on, or a very cluttered screen.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 12:14:02 PM
Post by: MysticGohan on May 09, 2003, 12:48:48 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 12:58:34 PM
Post by: Bloodworth on May 09, 2003, 01:03:30 PM
What EggyToast brought up is the biggest advantage. Think of it like PSO in a sense. You can all be on the move, and if someone needs to stop and heal, they can do it without obstructing your view of the screen. I'm not sure how well this style of game could work without extra screens honestly.
And to add some speculation, I wonder if they're holding their cards on LAN play. It's possible, but on the other hand, this could have the same advantages without having to hook up extra TVs and cables.
Post by: MysticGohan on May 09, 2003, 01:37:42 PM
that's steep, Unless they also sell used GC-GBA link cables.
Post by: Bloodworth on May 09, 2003, 01:40:04 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 01:43:20 PM
Mystic- Again, in the roundtable with Kawazu, someone asked if Square had considered packaging a link cable with FF:CC (much the same way Animal Crossing included a memory card). Kawazu said they were thinking about the possibility, so it's not definite you will have to buy a link cable (besides, they're only 10 bucks and you can use them with many other games, too).
Post by: MysticGohan on May 09, 2003, 01:49:59 PM
True Mouse but I already have onle GC-GBA cable, But I would need another one even if there was one packaged with FF:CC. I know the benefeits I have done it with MP and MF.
But the fact is I don't have that kind of income "no job" I have reasons.
It just makes it hard, since I was very much anticipating this game.
What's the lowest price anyone has seen on the GBA as of recently?
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 01:54:02 PM
Also, just a thought I had in response to Dan's question on how well the game would work without seperate screens for seperate players to do spells. Obviously the game won't require anymore than 4 buttons since that's all the GBA has to offer. Yet the GCN controller has 3 more face buttons plus the D-pad and C-Stick, which makes for essentially 11 different hot keys for spells if the GCN controller is used.
Post by: Moonwatcher on May 09, 2003, 01:59:51 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 09, 2003, 02:18:12 PM
Packing in the cable would be awesome and I really hope they do it. At my house we have one Gamecube, one GBA/GC link cable, and two GBAs. True the cable is cheap but aside from this game there is absolutely no need for me to have two of them. I don't really want to buy another cable for ONE game so including a pack in would really help. Plus it just makes sense. The idea is that your friends will bring their GBAs but they might not have a link cable.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 02:18:25 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 09, 2003, 02:19:29 PM
Quote
Uh, not really, I doubt he's doing that much.
Let's put it this way. I would rather have Miyamoto overseeing the project than Sakaguchi. It reminds me very much of Square's golden era in the SNES age. They got a lot of help from Nintendo, and their games from that period were the best.
Quote
uh... fmv looks a lot nicer so I'd rather have FMV. OMFG IT'S A MOVIE IF IT'S NOT REAL TIME!!!!!!!11111111111 What's so terrible about FMV? I don't care whether it has fmv or not but hating FMV just because it's FMV is dumb.
I don't hate it because it's FMV. That is dumb. What I hate is that Final Fantasy has become all FMV and no substance. I greatly prefer cinematics, as they don't break up the atmosphere when they happen. Cut scenes ala Eternal Darkness are also good though, where the FMV was used sparingly. Resident Evil style FMV is the best though, as you could barely tell when it started and ended, and was only really used for the shots with too many polys.
Play Final Fantasy VIII or IX, or X sometime. You will find that the FMV is NOT helpful to the game at all.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 02:25:49 PM
So hate the frequency of the cut-scenes, not the quality of them.
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 09, 2003, 02:28:29 PM
Post by: AlphaDragoon2002 on May 09, 2003, 02:55:25 PM
I can't afford a second GBA, and so as a result my twin brother gets screwed outta playing it with me, or I get screwed outta playing with him.
They better say you only need one GBA, otherwise I won't be able to really enjoy it. I just don't have the kind of cash to go and blow on a GBA just to use it for a second controller.
Post by: Aussiedude on May 09, 2003, 03:05:11 PM
The GBA-SP is selling extremely well in all markets, particuarly Japan. What this game is really about is encouraging GBA-SP owners to get a cube, and to a lesser extent GCN owners to buy a second GBA-SP. Still this would have a big impact on sales of the game (unless the game is absolutely unreal in terms of gameplay) so Nintendo may be offering SQUARE-ENRIX some incentive (eg No royalties to be paid for the game, Nintendo supplying a free GBA link up cable, even paying $$ to Square -Enrix for each game sold).
Also by the time the game is relased the GBA-SP will most likely have come down by a good margin.
Obviosly this is good for Nintendo as it will increase hardware sales of both systems with no financial outlay. Nintendo needs to force the issue of GBA connectivity in terms of REAL benefit as this is the major difference between the consoles, and this is obviously a good starting point. This will allow more games to rely on the GBA-SP as GCN owners would all have at least one GBA-SP.
Post by: Zeth on May 09, 2003, 03:08:55 PM
Quote
Play Final Fantasy VIII or IX, or X sometime. You will find that the FMV is NOT helpful to the game at all.
I love FFIX and FFX. But it's not because of the FMV. If the cut scenes were real time rather than FMV I'd still like the games just as much.
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 09, 2003, 03:11:22 PM
I didn't even see this much whining when Perfect Dark, Zelda: Majora's Mask, and Conker's Bad Fur Day required expansion packs to play.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 03:20:46 PM
"The other thing is you really need 4 GBA-SP's. GBA would be useless due to battery life and the fact you cant even read the screen indoors. So this game obviously has hidden marketing agenda's."
Oh jesus, since when did the normal GBA suddennly became the qualitative equivalent of crap? A GBA is perfectly fine- contrary to popular belief, it has an extremely long battery life and looks fine in most lighting conditions. I've never had a problem with either situations through the 1 1/2 years I've owned by GBA. An SP would be nice, but it is nowhere near necessary.
Post by: AlphaDragoon2002 on May 09, 2003, 03:23:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
Man, I can't believe how many people are up in arms about this. You don't need a GBA to play the game, but each of your friends needs a GBA to play with you. From my experience with Seiken Densetsu, there's no problem with playing single player, and it's both addictive and fun. Nobody is forcing you to play multi player, and nobody is forcing you to buy a GBA if you don't have one, as single player games will play fine with a single GameCube controller.
That's the point. My friends don't have GBAs, and my brother and sister (who I planned on playing it with) don't have GBAs. Why would they, we have one already...
The point is, most people wanted to play this multiplayer, like it's been advertised for months on end. But I'm guessing that like me, most people don't have the cash or want to spend the cash to buy GBAs just to use as controllers, or have friends that have GBAs to play. Why can't they just have the option to use (shock and awe) NORMAL CONTROLLERS?!
And besides, anyone who's ever played Secret of Mana on SNES knows that the true essence of the game is found in multiplayer. And seeing as the producer of SOM made this game, I have a feeling it's gonna be very similar. So basically, people are just getting screwed through this "everyone must have a GBA" thing. It's just plain stupid...using one GBA while the rest have GC controllers makes a LOT more sense.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 03:27:53 PM
Post by: AlphaDragoon2002 on May 09, 2003, 03:42:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Yes, we've determined it sucks ass you need a GBA to play the game with other people, Alpha. We're past that point. Perhaps Square will come to their senses and let you use a regular controller, but it seems unlikely. Getting pissed off over the whole thing won't make it any better, though. If you REALLY want to play the game with other people, you better start saving up for a new GBA or borrow one from a friend that has one (I refuse to believe you're the only person you know that owns a GBA). Otherwise, be happy you at least get to play the singleplayer. Either way there's little you can do to change Square's mind.
Yeah, I'm actually the only one with a GBA. One of my friends does have one, but he's in the Marines now and lives and San Diego. I doubt he'll fly out here just to play FF:CC with me.
And I know there's really nothing we can do about it, but it's still retarded.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 09, 2003, 03:44:44 PM
And how many friends do you have? I meet people all the time who own GBA's that I don't even know- I just run into them. Surely you can make friends with someone who owns a GBA (just don't tell them it's only because you want to play FF:CC
).
Post by: InfiniDragon615 on May 09, 2003, 04:11:29 PM
Post by: MysticGohan on May 09, 2003, 04:19:10 PM
Tell me it's possible for two players to have one GBA as a controller and the other a GCN controller. If the one player mode will allow you to use the GCN controller than why wouldn't that work with at least 2 players? I would love to see that with 3 or 4 players but if it would work with two than that would be ok.
Square needs to think on this.
Post by: Bloodworth on May 09, 2003, 04:22:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Gery Ninja: What's the difference between FMV scenes and cinematic scenes? *Absolutely nothing*.
The big advantage of real-time cinema scenes as opposed to FMV is that they're customizable. Take Zelda 64 for example. No matter what items or tunics you had equipped, you would see them in the cut-scene. If the cut-scenes had been FMV, they would have had to anticipate and record every possibility which takes a lot of space and more time and money to render before recording. The other disadvantage to FMV is that since it's inconsistent with the rest of the game, it can leave a sense of disappointment. You'd love the WHOLE GAME to look like that, but it just isn't possible. It gets people more interested in checking out the movies than playing the game.
Post by: InfiniDragon615 on May 09, 2003, 04:29:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MysticGohan
It does bite Mouse, since I too know no one around who has a GBA, and i'm not going up to strangers and ask them if they have a gba and link cable, what are you thinking?
Tell me it's possible for two players to have one GBA as a controller and the other a GCN controller. If the one player mode will allow you to use the GCN controller than why wouldn't that work with at least 2 players? I would love to see that with 3 or 4 players but if it would work with two than that would be ok.
Square needs to think on this.
It'll only work if all the players had a GBA since they're trying to allow players to access items and the menus without pausing (since the GBA has the screen.) It still sucks, but that's the thinking behind it.
Post by: MysticGohan on May 09, 2003, 05:33:46 PM
It would be intresting even with 2players, One player could use sub menus that wouldn't take alot of space, The GC has the Analog and the C-stick, Couldn't that along with the rest of the buttons take place of what the GBA can do? or atleast work with one gba and one GCN controller.
Like how you could create shortcuts for spells and greeting in pso, It wouldn't be hard, and the menu wouldn't take up hardly any of the screen, or the person with the GC controller can't access the menus, but the person with the GBA can, and could use items or whatever is needed with the GBA to help the person with just the GC controller. In theory this would be a solution for those who don't have many GBA's or friends with any for that matter.
This way more than one person can play, it's sort of a handicap but it would allow for co-op without the need for 4 gba's.
The GBA was to be used for menus right? or atleast quick and easy access, well couldn't work that way too?
Post by: InfiniDragon615 on May 09, 2003, 06:07:25 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 09, 2003, 08:25:25 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 09, 2003, 08:32:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BloodworthQuote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Gery Ninja: What's the difference between FMV scenes and cinematic scenes? *Absolutely nothing*.
The big advantage of real-time cinema scenes as opposed to FMV is that they're customizable. Take Zelda 64 for example. No matter what items or tunics you had equipped, you would see them in the cut-scene. If the cut-scenes had been FMV, they would have had to anticipate and record every possibility which takes a lot of space and more time and money to render before recording. The other disadvantage to FMV is that since it's inconsistent with the rest of the game, it can leave a sense of disappointment. You'd love the WHOLE GAME to look like that, but it just isn't possible. It gets people more interested in checking out the movies than playing the game.
Thanks Bloodworth. That's essentially what I was trying to say. I just don't like it when the cut scenes are almost photo-realistic, and the game itself features a few polygons moving around on a muddy background. (FF8) They just serve to break the action for me, while I have no problems with the cinematics used in Zelda 64, or even the FMV used in Resident Evil (GCN), and Eternal Darkness, as it wasn't overdone.
Post by: KirbySStar on May 10, 2003, 07:32:51 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 10, 2003, 08:11:22 AM
Why are they making it so difficult for the casual gamer?
DAMN NINTENDO for making us seem even more as cash cow.
Post by: Caterkiller on May 10, 2003, 08:50:24 AM
Any way this is no problem for me, and i'd much rather have the GBA's for a players own screen rather then the game getting paused every 2 seconds for someone to pick a spell or something.
All I need is one more GC/GBA link cable so my brother and sister could play with me.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 10, 2003, 08:53:21 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 10, 2003, 01:18:03 PM
Yeah, and I hardly cared whether or not Link had the Mirror Shield and the Blue Tunic and the Biggoron's Sword, just like I had him, in the cut-scene. Honestly, if someone's squabbling over little details like that then maybe they've chosen the wrong hobby.
"If the cut-scenes had been FMV, they would have had to anticipate and record every possibility which takes a lot of space and more time and money to render before recording."
Like I said, nobody really cares that their character in the cut-scene doesn't look exactly how they "customized" him. People shouldn't worry about petty little details as to what kind of sword a guy has.
"The other disadvantage to FMV is that since it's inconsistent with the rest of the game, it can leave a sense of disappointment. You'd love the WHOLE GAME to look like that, but it just isn't possible."
Oh come on- yeah, I'd like the whole game to look as nice as FMV but anyone who actually EXPECTS it is crazy. I'd at least like to see my surroundings in super high quality at least a couple times in the game, as opposed to having to look at a blocky, jaggy, blurry textured character model simply because the developer wants to be "consistent". If you ask me, it compliments the art in the game when you get to see it how the artist truly wanted it to be. You wouldn't want to see the Mona Lisa done in 8 bit-esque pixels, would you?
"It gets people more interested in checking out the movies than playing the game."
People SHOULD be watching the movies- afterall, it progresses the story, which is usually what keeps gamers hooked in games like RPG's (they'd be boring if all you did was around fighting random battles). I agree they shouldn't be more interested in checking out the movies than actually playing the games, but isn't kind of insulting to have the developer offer up a crappy cut-scene because they want you to "focus" on the gameplay? You usually have to work to get to FMV cut-scenes, so think of it more as a reward for HAVING paid attention to the gameplay.
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 10, 2003, 01:24:40 PM
You like being taken out of the game to watch a 30 second quality movie,
Myself and Bloodworth like to see a seamlessly integrated cinematic.
Difference of opinion eh?
Edited to include Mouse Clicker's positive angle.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 10, 2003, 01:36:04 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 10, 2003, 01:47:11 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 10, 2003, 01:59:51 PM
Have fun watching your customized, consistent, horrible quality cut-scenes.
Post by: Wesisapie on May 10, 2003, 02:13:57 PM
Post by: PIAC on May 10, 2003, 04:52:26 PM
i guess i just like continuity
Post by: Drago on May 10, 2003, 05:42:51 PM
What’s up Grey Ninja, I see you survived the flame wars in the Tecmo forums.
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 10, 2003, 06:40:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Drago
What’s up Grey Ninja, I see you survived the flame wars in the Tecmo forums.
lol... I only posted there like 4 times because I wanted to see SOMETHING for GameCube.
I am surprised that anyone remembers me from there. I didn't really get into any flame wars there though, as I tried to be as diplomatic as possible, while still getting my point across.Post by: Sean on May 10, 2003, 08:28:13 PM
As I see it, a game of this stature should include GBA linkup as a bonus--purely optional. I don't know. I've just got a really bad feeling about this. I really hope that regular controller support is fully functional and the GBA is a neat bonus if you have the ability and means. *shudder* Thar be a cold breeze-a blowin' matey! Aaarrrrr....what's that? An albatross????
Mouse Clicker writes: "Have fun watching your customized, consistent, horrible quality cut-scenes."
Mouse, you seem to have a really low opinion of in-game graphics engines (I kid, I kid--I know what you're getting at, really, I do). I'm so glad Wind Waker, for instance, didn't have GCI cinemas. There really is something to be said for continuity, but I will not deny that the FMV in games like Final Fantasy is really quite breathtaking.
And yes, I realize that we're "beyond" the whole "Gee it sucks about the GBA thing, eh?" thing. But oh well. I wanted to address it again, just for you, Mouse. ;-)
Oh, and Grey, I can't get past your avatar...it's just not you! Maybe it'll grow on me....hahaha. I expect everyone's avatars to be approved by me of course...haha. I've been away from these boards for too long! I'M HOME DADDY! Or...nevermind. Anyway, nice to see familiar faces still, haha.
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 10, 2003, 08:55:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sean
Oh, and Grey, I can't get past your avatar...it's just not you! Maybe it'll grow on me....hahaha. I expect everyone's avatars to be approved by me of course...haha. I've been away from these boards for too long! I'M HOME DADDY! Or...nevermind. Anyway, nice to see familiar faces still, haha.
Don't really have much to say about most of your post, but this one here strikes me a little funny.
The avatar I am using is one of the oldest ones I have. People from well over a year ago will know me by this avatar, and a variant of my name, ranging anywhere from Dark Ninja to Grey Fox. Being that it is my oldest avatar, I will usually use it at first when I visit a forum, but I do change it often. Don't worry about that. I change it as my interests change, or something catches my eye that would make a fine avatar.I was thinking of changing it to the good old Grey Fox image lately... but Ninja-X beat me to that one.
I was thinking of good old Solid Snake though too, and I just might do that one of these days... (maybe now)
Post by: Sean on May 10, 2003, 09:02:31 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 10, 2003, 09:05:17 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 10, 2003, 09:29:39 PM
As for customizable cut scenes: If it's true that the players can choose their character among many (as the preview suggests) it's impossible to use FMVs that involve the characters. An intro and outro cutscene could be in nonetheless.
I'd like some sort of "light" multiplayer, which might lack a few features but gives you a taste whether or not you like it enough to justify buying GBAs...
Post by: reivned on May 11, 2003, 05:45:45 AM
But to me this game only looks like another attempt to force a GBA down my throat.
Again nothing against the GBA. It sure is a nice handheld system, but I bought a home console and even though I could afford a GBA I won't invest more money into gaming. It is expensive enough as it is.
Post by: SmellySocks on May 11, 2003, 06:42:59 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 11, 2003, 08:19:11 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 11, 2003, 08:25:07 AM
Sean: It's not that I hate real-time cut-scenes, especially if the game has good graphics on it's own (like FFX), but I see no reason to get all excited because a game will have absolutely no FMV or CG cut-scenes. It just doesn't make sense- I'd rather see the true artistic vision in super high quality than having to stare at a blocky, jaggy, blurry textured excuse for a character model just so the game can be "consistent". I'm not saying the entire game should be done in FMV, but what's to get excited about there being NO FMV?
And for most of your information, Wind Waker DID have some pre-rendered cut-scenes. They were done in real-time, but they lacked the oh so precious customization you guys crave so much.
Post by: Sean on May 11, 2003, 09:07:26 AM
I'm not being a smart-aleck--I'm just saying that you have cut-scenes, which are those things that progress the story and are non-playable (generally). BUT, not all cut-scenes are FMV. Not all cut-scenes are "real-time." To my knowledge, all the cut-scenes in Zelda are "real-time" and thus not FMV or "pre-rendered" or CGI. This suits the game to a tee because you are never taken out of that world. It's called artistic continuity. Artistically, Nintendo obviously thought it was better to use their spectacular in-game engine EXCLUSIVELY to provide both gameplay AND storyline exposition. I haven't finished Wind Waker yet, so unless it's at the VERY END, then it doesn't have CGI or pre-rendered or FMV cut-scenes: only real-time, engine-run cut-scenes.
By the way, I'm pretty sure Reivned is aware enough of things to know that you don't need 4 GBA's PERSONALLY. He very clearly says that buying ONE GBA for himself alone is out of the question for him personally, and he probably doesn't know 4 other people with GBA's. Give him a break. Be reasonable.
Post by: Zeth on May 11, 2003, 09:14:46 AM
Quote
The characters looked totally misplaced in those sequences in FF8. And what's the point of an FMV if all the characters are still blocky as hell? Okay, it's the GC, they won't be blocky, but the lighting and everything will be different. Either full-realtime or full-rendered, not mix-and-match. BTW, those cutscenes eat space that could be used for more game.
Uh, no. GC discs are huge and you can use multiple ones if you want. So I don't see the FMV = less game argument. Maybe FMV = less real time cutscenes, but that's about it.
And Xenosaga has both realtime cutscenes and a bit of fmv, and it blends them together very well. GC is more powerful than the PS2 so I'm sure it could do that as well.
Quote
And for most of your information, Wind Waker DID have some pre-rendered cut-scenes. They were done in real-time, but they lacked the oh so precious customization you guys crave so much
yes.
And last... what the heck.. How is FMV Ok in Resident Evil but not OK in Final Fantasy? That's just stupid. Yes, there's less FMV in Resident Evil, but Resident Evil games are also shorter.
Post by: Sean on May 11, 2003, 09:21:48 AM
"yes.
And last... what the heck.. How is FMV Ok in Resident Evil but not OK in Final Fantasy? That's just stupid."
Yes? Yes to what??
Anyway, I don't know how said FMV was okay in RE and not in FF, but that's not at all what I'm at least talking about. I've even said that I love the FMV in FF, however, I do think that there's too much emphasis on it as the series progresses. It's still breathtaking. And in RE, the FMV doesn't clash with the in-game graphics at ALL, so that's a terrific choice, especially in the GameCube version of the remake.
What I object to is people being disappointed because there ISN'T any FMV. To me, that's unfair, because in Wind Waker, for instance, it works so beautiful artistically. Surely you can see that if you try. It's NICE TO HAVE DIFFERENT VISIONS in different games. That's what it's all about. Embrace variety, and at least try to see what developers are trying to do before you start calling them cheap for not using what's popular or more accessible, which many have said about Nintendo. Anyway, that's beside the point.
Post by: Zeth on May 11, 2003, 09:43:05 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 11, 2003, 11:01:56 AM
No no no- you've got it all wrong. FMV in general refers to cut-scenes that are not rendered by the game at that moment- in other words, graphic artists animated every single frame rather than the programmers telling the game how to put together the scene. FMV is usually CGI, meaning not rendered by the console itself, but that's not always true. Cut-scenes in a game can be animated by graphical artists WITH real-time graphics. You obviously don't understand the terms real-time and pre-rendered. So basically, real-time is the console's own graphical power while pre-rendered means just that- rendered before you play the game and is a video the game just calls up at the right time. Wind Waker did have several real-time pre-rendered cut-scenes.
Also, customizable FMV IS possible, it would just take an insane amount of space. Let's use OoT as an example- in the game, Adult Link can have 3 different kinds of boots, 3 different color tunics, 2 different kinds of swords, and 2 different kinds of shields. That makes 36 possible combinations and 36 different depictions of Link (3 x 3 x 2 x 2 = 36). Theoretically the developer could make 36 different FMV cut-scenes, one for each combination. It would be extremely impractical, though, and would take up an inordinate amount of space just for one scene. It IS possible, though.
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 11, 2003, 03:41:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Zeth
And last... what the heck.. How is FMV Ok in Resident Evil but not OK in Final Fantasy? That's just stupid. Yes, there's less FMV in Resident Evil, but Resident Evil games are also shorter.
I've already gone over this a few times, but once more.
I have no problem with FMV if it doesn't look out of place. The FMV in Resident Evil mixed very well with the in game graphics, and I had no problems with dealing with it.
The FMV in games such as Final Fantasy 7, 8, and 9 ALL looked WAY out of place, and served mainly to irritate me. It's become a common thing for Square to put far too much effort into their FMV, and not enough into their gameplay. The last Square game I played and liked was Vagrant Story. No FMV. Good game.
Post by: SmellySocks on May 11, 2003, 04:27:40 PM
Wait...it is "FF:CC needs more than one GBA?" We all are way off-topic here.
Want to move that discussion to another topic?
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 11, 2003, 04:30:47 PM
Only kidding, of course.
Post by: SmellySocks on May 11, 2003, 04:51:25 PM
Post by: Zeth on May 11, 2003, 05:02:16 PM
Quote
I have no problem with FMV if it doesn't look out of place. The FMV in Resident Evil mixed very well with the in game graphics, and I had no problems with dealing with it.
The FMV in games such as Final Fantasy 7, 8, and 9 ALL looked WAY out of place, and served mainly to irritate me. It's become a common thing for Square to put far too much effort into their FMV, and not enough into their gameplay. The last Square game I played and liked was Vagrant Story. No FMV. Good game.
How did the FMV look out of place in FF7, 8 or 9? Yes, it looked a lot better than the Playstation's graphics but out of place? No.
Yes, games without FMV are great. Skies of Arcadia has no FMV and it's one of the best games ever. But it seems like you're hating the games and blaming it on the FMV.
AND I THINK THEY SHOULD TAKE OUT THE OPENING TO SMASH BROS. MELEE
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 11, 2003, 05:09:31 PM
Forget it... I don't think I am explaining myself correctly, and I don't know how else to say it.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 11, 2003, 07:28:49 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 11, 2003, 07:57:30 PM
interview article
If this reality holds, I'm not buying this game. I'll settle with a GC-GB Player with Sword of Mana instead.
Post by: Sean on May 11, 2003, 08:52:51 PM
You have TWO TYPES OF CUT-SCENES:
(A cut scene is an edit, or jump or "cut to," hence the name, an EXPOSITORY SECTION--a non-playable time wherein the story is furthered.)
1. FMV=Full Motion Video.
2. Real-Time Cinema=Game Engine rendered graphics, non-video.
Final Fantasy X has FMV cut-scenes, very often.
Zelda The Wind Waker DOES NOT HAVE FMV--IT DOES NOT CONTAIN FULL MOTION VIDEO EVER EVER EVER.
It does, however, contain cut-scenes created not by FMV, but REAL-TIME (BY DEFINITION, REAL TIME MEANS "NOT PRERENDERED"!) CINEMATIC GRAPHICS using the game's graphics engine.
Now, whichever way you prefer (FMV or Real-time), well, that's completely up to you. It works sometimes either way, and sometimes it doesn't work, period.
I'm freaking done here. This is so, so, so stupid.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 11, 2003, 09:01:39 PM
Still, unless there is some secret information you really want to hide from your friends, there's no need for the GBA being required. A properly designed menu can work without distracting other players and without pausing the game. So, yes, if there are no secret infos this is probably a marketing stunt. Bah, don't want to imagine what MS would do once they develop a handheld that can be connected to the XB...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 11, 2003, 11:58:19 PM
Quote
Zelda The Wind Waker DOES NOT HAVE FMV--IT DOES NOT CONTAIN FULL MOTION VIDEO EVER EVER EVER.
The Wind Waker does contain Full Motion Video. The final bulk of the ending, including the credits and what's after, was pre-recorded and can be identified thanks to the artifacting situated along object/character edges, all due to Nintendo's subpar "Easy-bake video" codec (those fools in Japan have yet to realize the power of DivX -- I'm proud of Factor5, and they'll do us justice).
And there's no such thing as "real-time pre-rendered".
I'll also reiterate that apparently the single-player quest for FFCC plays with only one character, and no A.I. characters to join you -- THIS SUCKS ZEPHOS.
Post by: Bloodworth on May 12, 2003, 01:01:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Like I said, nobody really cares that their character in the cut-scene doesn't look exactly how they "customized" him.
Been away for a few days...but what you mean is YOU don't care. You certainly can't tell us that we don't care. And while something like the Power Rings isn't likely to be noticed, changing a sword or shield is going to be noticeably inconsistent, especially with the level of detail in graphics that we have now.
Post by: Bloodworth on May 12, 2003, 01:06:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Zeth
How did the FMV look out of place in FF7, 8 or 9? Yes, it looked a lot better than the Playstation's graphics but out of place? No.
The biggest problem I had with FF7's cut-scenes is that they weren't consistent in the slightest. There were a ton of different models for all the scenes with various levels of detail. I will admit though that the in-game graphics were so poor that FF7 likely would have flopped (in comparison) if it didn't rely on pre-rendered cinemas and backgrounds.
Post by: Gamefreak on May 12, 2003, 01:35:23 AM
But let me bring up another fine example: Warcraft III.
The CGI scenes are some of the best I've ever seen in video game, and are very consistent, with the possible exception of the grass in the opening video which looks far too perfect and unreal compared to the more realistic grass in the other videos...but the opening was made like 4 years ago...
Anyway, the uber-realistic FMV sequences, while consistent, stand in stark contrast to the cartoony, quirky, and colorful in-game graphics... The FMV scenes look oh-so-sweet, but is it worth it if it doesn't look the same as the in game stuff?
Post by: PIAC on May 12, 2003, 01:51:26 AM
[/pointlesspowertrip]
okay i just wanted to feel big
Post by: MysticGohan on May 12, 2003, 10:00:17 PM
But will Square give us options to have 2players atleast? surely with a gba and GC controller that could be accomplished. How was SOM done?
I just don't want to buy more GBA's just to play, I wouldn't mind owning two if I had the money, but that's alot to expect people to know or have friend with GBA's. As I've stated that's a problem for people like me who aren't acustomed to having people around who have GBA's. It makes it hard especially inthe case of FF:CC, Sure I can play it alone, But I wanted to play with Co-op with family and friends. "neither having GBA's or willing to buy one"
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 14, 2003, 12:07:58 PM
IGN Cube reports something strange. At a pricate FF:CC showing at E3, there were only 3 GBAs available on a FF: CC unit, and a Nintendo rep plugged in a standard controller instead of a GBA in the last port, and the game ran fine. Will you all please stop whining now?
Anyways, a link to the story. It's the last paragraph on page 2.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/402/402172p2.html
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 14, 2003, 12:18:04 PM
"One thing in particular must be cleared up: players are not required to use a GBA system to play Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles in its current form. In the private hands-on playtest that we experienced, only three GBA SP systems were available, thus a Nintendo representative was forced to plug in a standard GCN controller to join the party. The previously mentioned Japanese interview had caused quite a stir among Nintendo fans during the past week in regards to whether four GBA systems were required for multiplayer action, but we can confirm that this is not the case in the version we played. Whether or not this will change for its final release remains to be determined, but we consider it unlikely."
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 14, 2003, 01:31:59 PM
Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough (this is pretty complicated).
Okay, you have THREE different types of cut-scenes- I won't insult your intelligence by telling you what a cut-scene is, since you've already displayed your immense knowledge on this fact by telling ME.
1. Real time- this means that the graphics themselves are produced BY the console itself and the cut-scene is actually *formed* at that moment. Their is lines of code in the programming that tell the game how to piece together the cut-scene. This allows the customized character to be shown in the cut-scene since it's forming the scene as it goes along.
2. Real time pre-rendered- This means the cut-scene uses graphics that are generated by the console itself but the actual movie is animated by graphic artists ahead of time, frame by frame- hence the term pre-rendered (rendered, or created, ahead of time by actual people, not the game). This doesn't allow use of the customized character because the character model was created by graphic artists.
3. CG pre-rendered- This means a cut-scene that was not only animated by people ahead of time but using state of the art computer generated graphics much more advanced than what the console in question can generate. Like real time pre-rendered cut-scenes, they do not offer customization since they are animated entirely ahead of time. The main difference is a REAL TIME pre-rendered cut-scene uses the console's own graphical power while a CG pre-rendered cut-scene uses computer generated graphics.
Just because a cut-scene uses the console's own graphical power does NOT mean it offeres customization. FMV is the term used to refer to ANY pre-rendered cut-scene, be they real time or CG. I'm sorry if I confused you by using it only to refer to CG cut-scenes, but there ARE 3 different types of cut-scenes. It's not as cut and dry as you'd like to believe.
"but what you mean is YOU don't care. You certainly can't tell us that we don't care. And while something like the Power Rings isn't likely to be noticed, changing a sword or shield is going to be noticeably inconsistent, especially with the level of detail in graphics that we have now."
True, I didn't conduct a scientific research, but I've honestly never heard anyone complain about their character looking different in the cut-scene until now. Sure it may be noticable, especially now, as you pointed out, but it still is a very trivial thing and if someone's getting whiny over something so insignificant, then I seriously think they chose the wrong hobby.
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 14, 2003, 01:42:47 PM
Anyways, I guess E3 is about over for the day. I have a CDR full of stuff, and I am going to go home and play some Aerobiz Supersonic, or program my Metal Gear game some more. later.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 14, 2003, 01:45:35 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 14, 2003, 02:56:14 PM
Without the GBA requirement this title instantly goes from being a niche title to a potential killer app. Good move by Square-Enix.
Post by: Mr_Denim on May 14, 2003, 03:31:59 PM
I plug four standard Cube controllers into the controller ports, with nary a GBA/GBA SP in sight; will I, or will I not be able to have four people play the game with NO problems in game play whatsoever?
Post by: Scyth3r on May 14, 2003, 04:13:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mr_Denim
Hmmm, well, at the risk of sending all and sundry into frothing fits of hair pulling and teeth gnashing let me ask this;
I plug four standard Cube controllers into the controller ports, with nary a GBA/GBA SP in sight; will I, or will I not be able to have four people play the game with NO problems in game play whatsoever?
IGN says you can but you'll be severley limited in your abilities I believe.
Post by: couchmonkey on May 14, 2003, 04:32:40 PM
Yes, according to IGN, the game can be played with regular controllers, but it isn't as good as with Gameboys...now to me, this isn't a serious problem since I don't see myself playing with anyone else anyway, but having said that, I can easily see why everyone else is complaining.
This seems unecessarily complicated. Connectivity is supposed to sell Gamecube to GBA owners but as far as I can see this feature just annoys people that don't own GBAs. Can anyone tell me how this feature is going to sell the game to Gameboy owners? I mean, they have to buy an expensive console plus the cables to connect the GBAs to the GameCube plus a new game...what exactly do they get out of it? I guess you could argue that if four people already own GBAs they can play the game without buying extra GCN controllers but that seems like a pretty small bonus, especially since none of the GameCube's other multiplayer games can be played without GameCube controllers.
So ultimately, the game doesn't really do anything to benefit the GBA owners and at the same time, it serves to tick off GameCube owners. I'm still optimistic that it will be a good game, but unless Square Enix "fixes" it so that it is reasonably playable with Gamecube controllers, I won't be using the multiplayer features.
Post by: EggyToast on May 14, 2003, 05:13:24 PM
As you have a lot more buttons on the GC controller, I'd imagine it's just fine playing without the GBA.
Post by: AlphaDragoon2002 on May 14, 2003, 07:22:27 PM
Post by: Mr_Denim on May 14, 2003, 09:38:08 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 15, 2003, 06:09:00 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 15, 2003, 11:36:08 AM
Post by: MysticGohan on May 15, 2003, 09:01:24 PM
I love them all regardless, I very much enjoyed FFVII not only for the gameplay but FMV, it was awesome it was the first I saw something that good with a sci-fi fantasy feeling.
Anyway it's good to hear that 3/4 GBA's will not be needed to play FF:CC I rather have it be an option than utmost necessary to play co-op with people. I will use the GBA for my advantage since I have it, but as I've pointed out. It's my only one and that's all that will be able to use while playing co-op.
as long as my idea about people using the other 3GCN controllers to play than that works for me, as I'll be able to have 4 players. I hope this will be in the finale game. I would love muiltiple GBA's but perhaps down the road when I can afford more. but what's the advantage of the GBA?
Post by: Mario on May 15, 2003, 09:53:55 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 15, 2003, 10:03:20 PM
Post by: Mario on May 15, 2003, 10:08:30 PM
Has anyone seen the trailer from Nintendo's official website? It looks awesome, great graphics and art style and it looks really fun. I'll definately be getting this game!
