Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 05:03:55 PM
Title: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 05:03:55 PM
With the reveal and eventual release of the 3DS and its glassess free 3D screen, people are already talking about the wii's successor, or the wii 2. Many people are speculating that the wii 2 will have HD style graphics, but Nintendo has always been a game company that always delivers some kind of wow factor to entice people to buy their hardware and software.
When the wii was revealed, the wow factor was motion controls. However, looking carefully at the situation it seems as if Nintendo's back is against the wall in regards to their next wow factor for the wii 2. There is no doubt that the wii 2 will incorporate some HD graphical capabilities, but the actual wow factor will possibly be a more advanced version of the 3D found in the 3DS.
Hold on a second, wouldn't the wii 2 be unable to implement 3D effects because the older TV screens could not handle the 3D, nor could the consumer afford the 3D televisions that are emerging on the market? Those TV are also not glasses free, right? Nintendo is not about to make its consumers buy a very expensive television just to play its games.
There is a soulution to this problem, however. On a recent episode of RFN, host Johnathan Metts mentioned that the wii does not have five years left in its life cycle. But what if it does? Here is my soultion: Nintendo goes to the TV companies with their 3DS and says, "Here is how you make glasses free screens." The TV companies then adopt the technology, perfect the technology and then the market drives the price down for the consumer to buy the TVs. Nintendo would need atleast five years for this plan to work out to frutiton.
The end result would be similar to the 3DS, but on a much bigger scale and with HD graphics and higher resolution.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: vudu on August 04, 2010, 05:09:43 PM
Here is my soultion: Nintendo goes to the TV companies with their 3DS and says, "Here is how you make glasses free screens." The TV companies then adopt the technology, perfect the technology and then the market drives the price down for the consumer to buy the TVs.
Won't work. It's not that they don't know how to make "glasses free screens". The problem is you can't make them at a price that consumers are willing to pay. That, and the effect would only work if the viewer sits in a very specific spot relative to the television.
It works for a handheld because the screens are small and you know where the player will be located relative to the screen. It won't work for large televisions.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 05:15:51 PM
Here is my soultion: Nintendo goes to the TV companies with their 3DS and says, "Here is how you make glasses free screens." The TV companies then adopt the technology, perfect the technology and then the market drives the price down for the consumer to buy the TVs.
Won't work. It's not that they don't know how to make "glasses free screens". The problem is you can't make them at a price that consumers are willing to pay. That, and the effect would only work if the viewer sits in a very specific spot relative to the television.
It works for a handheld because the screens are small and you know where the player will be located relative to the screen. It won't work for large televisions.
Damn! I thought we would have a credible disscussion on the topic.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MegaByte on August 04, 2010, 05:32:08 PM
There is TV technology already that can do what you want, but it's not yet cost-effective. And it's not like Nintendo would need to go to these companies anyway-- they're not the ones who developed the technology in the first place, TV manufacturers did.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 05:47:17 PM
There is TV technology already that can do what you want, but it's not yet cost-effective. And it's not like Nintendo would need to go to these companies anyway-- they're not the ones who developed the technology in the first place, TV manufacturers did.
Sharp actually developed the technology, right? The only wow factor besides advanced motion control for the wii 2 is a much more advanced version of the 3DS screen that I can think of right now.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 04, 2010, 05:49:59 PM
It isn't in Nintendo's best interest to have a console that requires a special TV for its "wow" factor. Nintendo wants their "wow" feature to be universal and it wouldn't be if regular TVs can't support it. And Nintendo doesn't make TVs. Sony is pushing 3D hard because they want people to buy both their videogame console and their TV.
Nintendo will need something else to attract attention to their next console. I don't know what it will be or even what it could be. If people now expect Nintendo to bust out something as unique as the Wii remote each time from now on, well, they're kind of screwed. It just isn't going to happen. Innovation is rare, not routine. Most of Nintendo's consoles were very conventional upgrades that just improved everything in a general way. The N64 and Wii are the only two I would say that had a real "holy ****" factor. The rest were exciting in their own way but pretty much what people would expect.
The Wii 2 just having increased specs and better graphics and some tweaks and improvements to the controller should be good enough. I don't know if it really is since people might now expect more. I don't see how Nintendo can reinvent the wheel every time and we shouldn't expect it. I wouldn't be surprised if they try really hard to though. The 3DS certainly has a big "holy ****" factor to it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 04, 2010, 05:52:04 PM
A very slick online interface that's easy to use, but has tons of depth, would be a pretty HUGE advancement for the next console... if you ask me.
That, HD graphical capabilities, and a more evolved controller in the style of the SNES/'Cube days are all I really want for the next console.
Gimmie that and I'll be quite the content Nintendo fan next gen. :)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 06:00:09 PM
All of Nintendo's consoles go about a twin evoultionary step. For example:
The SNES was an evolutionary step of the NES. The SNES was basically a suped up NES with a redone controller.
The N64, which could be considred an evoltionary step of the SNES, and rightfully so, but it was its own seperate console that had its own wow factor: 3D gameplay.
The Gamecube could be considered an evoltuionary step of the N64 in the same way the SNES was to the original NES. The controllers for systems were basically the same.
The wii stood out among its brethren because it abandoned the traditional controller for a new innovation, motion controls. The wii 2 will be similar to the current wii, but be more advanced in every regards.
The biggest question is what will Nintendo do to the wii 2 to make it seem appealing? Suped up graphics and internet connectivity and even advanced motion controls are not apealing enough because the HD successors of the PS360 will have those too. Nintendo always has an ace in the hole and I am curious to see how it turns out.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 04, 2010, 06:11:29 PM
I just think that as long as it upgrades the visuals to 1080p standard, lots of onboard memory(HDD), ram, vastly improved online and a Wiimote2.0(CCPro2.10 bundled in too), Wii2 should be just fine.
The system will probably also support 3D, so whatever 3D capable TV you have should work fine with it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 06:23:39 PM
I just think that as long as it upgrades the visuals to 1080p standard, lots of onboard memory(HDD), ram, vastly improved online and a Wiimote2.0(CCPro2.10 bundled in too), Wii2 should be just fine.
The system will probably also support 3D, so whatever 3D capable TV you have should work fine with it.
Here is the problem with the wii 2 having 3D: Will be able to afford a 3D television? Unless Nintendo has found a way to bypass 3D onto a SD TV? As ludicrous as it sounds, I would not put anything past them in regards to research. Unless it is 3D lite?
The other question I have is whether it is time for an HD Nintendo console? Is the cost just right yet? Secondly, will it be called the "Wii 2"?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BeautifulShy on August 04, 2010, 08:27:14 PM
I just think that as long as it upgrades the visuals to 1080p standard, lots of onboard memory(HDD), ram, vastly improved online and a Wiimote2.0(CCPro2.10 bundled in too), Wii2 should be just fine.
The system will probably also support 3D, so whatever 3D capable TV you have should work fine with it.
Hmm while that is pretty true BlackNMIld in the past but what if Nintendo doesn't go down the Evolutionary path with the Wii successor? Microsoft and Sony I think will go towards the evolutionary path with Move and Kinect. So why would Nintendo do the evolutionary path when this gen the revolutionary path has worked so well for them?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 09:13:11 PM
What is the difference between the terms "evolution" and "revolution"? I do think that the next Nintendo home console will be in the evolution category in the same vein as the move and kinet services are going to be in this generation and the nest. The best thing for Nintendo to do is to watch move and kinect closely and learn from whatever succes and failure those services provide and then boost the footing that the wii has established for them.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 04, 2010, 09:32:01 PM
One of Nintendo's biggest mistake this time around was not leaving enough extra horsepower to add to the Wii experience down the line. That oversight left internet slightly crippled and WiiSpeak as a broken experience. The other was not having a unified structure for all the software to work on. If they fix those oversights, combine the M+ into an improved Wiimote2.0, add camera tracking of some sort, put the camera, wiispeak and the sensorbar into one item and then add Internal Mass Storage of any kind, they can add whatever other gimmick they want(so long as it is optional).
What is the difference between the terms "evolution" and "revolution"? I do think that the next Nintendo home console will be in the evolution category in the same vein as the move and kinet services are going to be in this generation and the nest. The best thing for Nintendo to do is to watch move and kinect closely and learn from whatever succes and failure those services provide and then boost the footing that the wii has established for them.
Evolution would be a refinement of the previous work Revolution would be something new to change it all up.
NES (Revolution = side crolling environments & savior of home gaming) SNES (Evolution = prettier 2D sidescrolling & Mode 7 layered scrolling) N64 (Revolution = 3D polygonal games & analog control) GC (Evolution= prettier 3D games & smaller form factor) Wii (Revolution = Motion/Pointer Controls & Virtual Console/WiiWare) Wii2 (Evolution? = Prettier Motion control games & everything that the Wii (&PS360) did only much much better... and then some)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 09:43:09 PM
To add credibility to the notion of the wii 2 being a more powerful evolutionary step for the wii brand, the Gamecube was basically a more powerful version of the N64.
Will the next console be called the "Wii 2"? The answer would be yes. First, it is a quick and easy answer to naming the console. Second, by naming it the wii 2, Nintendo is allowing the one hundred million plus wii owners to make the transition to the bigger, meaner console.
Can a Nintendo console both revolutionize the industry while at the same evolve it? What I am saying is could the wii 2 simultaneously evolve the motion control standard while revolutionizing graphical standard with whatever 3D they might/are going to implement into the wii 2.
No matter how good of a reception move and kinect recieve from the industry, I always see Nintendo spear heading the evolution of motion controls because they cracked that egg first way back in 2006.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: nickmitch on August 04, 2010, 09:47:25 PM
It won't be called Wii2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 04, 2010, 10:39:54 PM
Keep WiiSpeak far FAR away from my next Nintendo console. I want a headset.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 04, 2010, 10:48:59 PM
Keep WiiSpeak far FAR away from my next Nintendo console. I want a headset.
There no one saying you can't have both.
I would really like a (3D)Motion Camera/Sensor Bar/WiiSpeak combo peripheral. Also a Wiimote2.0 with a bluetooth/plug-in headset option
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 04, 2010, 10:51:50 PM
Hah, I suppose that's true! Look at me making a biased statement against WiiSpeak... oopsie. :P
I agree, though. It would definitely be great to have the entire thing built into one package. Just... give me a fantastic online service to go with it!
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 04, 2010, 11:51:29 PM
The biggest threat to Nintendo's motion control reign is Sony's Move. Sony is hoping to appeal to the people who own a wii and like motin controls and convince them that motion controls with high definition graphics is a good thing. Nintendo needs to make the wii 2 as powerful as possible without making it too expensive to keep this from happening.
Kinect, on the other hand, seems to be a moderate threat, but the idea of not using a controller seems too strange to be implemented into gaming. A physical controller has, and always, will be part of gaming. Nintendo has to prove why we will always need a controller to compete with whatever the Kinect service gains in the next couple of years.
I do see Nintendo taking what ever works from this technology and making their wiimote 2 controller better.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 05, 2010, 01:19:50 PM
Quote
The biggest question is what will Nintendo do to the wii 2 to make it seem appealing? Suped up graphics and internet connectivity and even advanced motion controls are not apealing enough because the HD successors of the PS360 will have those too.
Honestly for me this is exactly what would make it seem appealing. It's like the Wii only it isn't restricted by last-gen hardware. As successful as the Wii has been it has a LOT of annoying stupid bullshit and a polished Wii without the restrictions sounds very appealing. But I don't know if non-gamers would eat that up. This is more something that would appeal to people who found the Wii to be a disappointment.
Nintendo mentioned with the 3DS that they're trying to make things a little more serious (or something like that, can't remember the specific quote). They implied that they've gone a little too far to the casual non-gamer side and need to move things back more towards the middle to appeal to more dedicated gamers. So they could have a similar idea with the Wii 2. The Wii was successful but has been branded more or less as the casual focused console. So maybe now the plan is to make it appealing to core gamers as well and get everyone on board, not just one group or the other. That's the vibe they gave me with the 3DS - that they were thrilled to have girls and grandmas but didn't want the DS brand to be associated strictly with that demographic. Though that might just be because of competition from Apple, who will have the casuals locked up, and they want to be seen as the more dedicated gaming option.
It is in Nintendo's best interest to have a true everyone console. Not a casual console, not a hardcore console, an EVERYONE console.
I think what's most important for Nintendo in getting people on board with the Wii 2 is to have some killer app that draws like Wii Sports did. That's a big challenge though.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 05, 2010, 01:52:30 PM
Well, a good first start would be for Nintendo to not piss off every 3rd party developer who would want to work on Wii 2. For example, how about not putting out an asinine controller design that was designed for 1-2 Nintendo-developed titles that then everyone else has to tailor their game designs to try and use? We saw this with the Wii: the Wii Remote was designed for Nintendo games and Nintendo games only, and everyone else had to implement stupid tricks like waggle to try to shoe-horn more-traditional games on it. "But Broodwars", you say, "what about the classic controller?!" What about it? Nintendo barely supported the thing outside of the Virtual Console and made little effort to sell it so a large number of Wii owners had it. Hell, they don't really support the Nunchuck much better, and that actually came in the box. 3rd Parties were left to try to either badly simplify their designs and shoe-horn traditional controls into bad motion motion controls; completely redesign their titles around barely-working motion controls; or gamble on the relatively few users who had the Classic Controller.
Nintendo has a lot of things to prove with Wii 2 to 3rd Parties, and a more standard controller design that allows for traditional and motion controls is just the beginning. The machine has to have a solid online structure and strong system specs, and Nintendo has to make it clear that 3rd Parties are not just an afterthought to them while they count their mountains of money.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 05, 2010, 03:12:23 PM
In order to appeal to the hardcore market, the wii 2 needs one thing and that is mature titles. I am not saying that Nintendo needs to make mature games, but the titles need to be made and become successful on the console. I mean I am 21-years-old and I prefer all types of games because I have a wide range of interests. Nintendo needs to appeal more to my/our age group and not just the casuals to be successful with the wii 2.
I would bet that Nintendo has secretly met with developers and consulted with them about how to design the next controller. Could Nintendo releases a more traditionalcontroller along side an upgraded wiimote?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 05, 2010, 03:26:59 PM
I still think they're going to design an all-in-one controller device that handles all functions properly and effectively. It's possible... and if there's one company out there who can come up with the design for it... it's Nintendo.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 05, 2010, 05:15:06 PM
Quote
In order to appeal to the hardcore market, the wii 2 needs one thing and that is mature titles.
I think they need third party support. You're the fucking MARKET LEADER and yet pretty much any well regarded game that you yourself didn't make comes out on every single console EXCEPT yours? Come on!
It isn't about blood and guts or swearing or sex and boobs or guns and space marines. It's about games. Who's got the games that people want to play? If you want to play Nintendo games the Wii is your obvious choice. If you want to play kids games the Wii is your obvious choice. If you want to play casual titles the Wii is your obvious choice. But this sort of narrow variety has been Nintendo's problem with hardcore gamers since the N64. Some people are interested in a specific genre, some in specific themes or settings, and some just want a great sampling of everything. You can only get that with good third party support because that naturally creates variety and thus covers as many bases as possible. Nintendo can't provide variety on their own because they're just one company. They just don't get certain types of games and that isn't a jab at them, that's how it is for any single company. The variety comes from the group of independent companies all contributing to the console's library.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Morari on August 05, 2010, 05:27:55 PM
It isn't about blood and guts or swearing or sex and boobs or guns and space marines.
All of the most popular, best selling console games disagree with you. :(
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 05, 2010, 06:53:26 PM
head tracking works pretty well.
I think the motion sensor which isn't actually a motion sensor but a bunch of infrared LEDs on the wii 2 should have a cheap camera that at least if not tracking where your head is tracks where your wii mote is in relation to your head. Your head is 99% of the time pretty much in between where you hold the nunchuck and the wiimote. If it uses a night vision filter it might be able to track where your eyes are pretty cheaply. The question is how cheap can they make a camera that is just good enough to function?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkEcljNBggU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTBz0A47XA4&NR=1
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MegaByte on August 05, 2010, 07:22:37 PM
I do think a combination of Move and Kinect would be awesome to see in the next system, though I have to wonder if we'd ever see anything like that for two reasons: Nintendo didn't come up with it themselves, and now there are patents to deal with.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 05, 2010, 10:30:08 PM
In order for the wii 2 to be successful it must have established third party series that remain loyal to the brand. Red Steel, No More Heroes, Madworld, The Conduit and many others to remain on the system and give it a sense of identity.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 06, 2010, 03:41:05 AM
games of this generation...
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 06, 2010, 09:31:57 AM
In order for the wii 2 to be successful it must have established third party series that remain loyal to the brand. Red Steel, No More Heroes, Madworld, The Conduit and many others to remain on the system and give it a sense of identity.
Nah, games such as those aren't what needs to be successful with 3rd parties. Street Fighter, mainline Resident Evil series, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Lara Croft, etc etc.... series such as those from the major 3rd parties are what will determine Nintendo's success next go around. Especially the mainline Final Fantasy series. If Square ever brought it back to Nintendo's console... then yeah, man... Nintendo's back in business with 3rd parties. As of right now, though, they're still on the crapper.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 06, 2010, 12:17:18 PM
Quote
In order for the wii 2 to be successful it must have established third party series that remain loyal to the brand. Red Steel, No More Heroes, Madworld, The Conduit and many others to remain on the system and give it a sense of identity.
I can't think of a list of third party games that would have less of an impact. If those games mattered no one would complain about Wii third party support in the first place. If these games are the big third party titles next gen then nothing has changed.
What Nintendo needs is for the Wii 2 to be the de facto default choice for new games. That's healthy third party support. The Xbox 360 has the best third party support this gen. If you own that console, when a new game is announced, unless it is published by Nintendo or Sony, you can just assume it's going to be on your console. 90% of the time it is. That's good third party support. That's what it was like to own a PS2, PS1, SNES or NES. New game announced and you can assume it's for your console until proven otherwise.
I want the Wii 2 to be the target platform for all the major third parties. That doesn't mean you get one or two exclusives from them. It means the vast majority of the games they make are designed with your console in mind.
And exclusives are not that important. What's important is getting the majority of the major games. Whether it's an exclusive or multiplatform title is rather irrelevant.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 06, 2010, 12:38:27 PM
The only way for the wii 2 to recieve the brunt of thrd party support is to keep development costs for the machine far cheaper than the PS3/4 and 360/720. I do not understand how this could happen, but it would help out a whole lot.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 06, 2010, 12:43:23 PM
The only way for the wii 2 to recieve the brunt of thrd party support is to keep development costs for the machine far cheaper than the PS3/4 and 360/720. I do not understand how this could happen, but it would help out a whole lot.
No, we've been there with the Wii already: development costs are a major factor, but that doesn't matter if developers don't think they can get people to buy their games on that platform. Nintendo needs to establish good 3rd party relations and restore faith in those developers that big 3rd party projects can sell on Nintendo platforms, along with factoring their needs in when designing the hardware. Otherwise, what we saw with the Wii will just happen again.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: AV on August 06, 2010, 12:56:40 PM
I do think a combination of Move and Kinect would be awesome to see in the next system, though I have to wonder if we'd ever see anything like that for two reasons: Nintendo didn't come up with it themselves, and now there are patents to deal with.
True but it would be fairly easy.
1) Upgrade censor bar 2) Upgrade wiimote
I'm sure they will think of something else to really make it stand out.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 06, 2010, 01:42:15 PM
Having Final Fantasy XV for the wii 2 would truelly be a feather in its cap and a huge score for Nintendo. Although people will be nervous thinking that motion controls are going to be gimmicked into the game.
What does wiiware and the virtual console services look like on the wii 2? Are new consoles emulated? Would any one shy away from the idea of having HD 8-bit game?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 06, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
Having Final Fantasy XV for the wii 2 would truelly be a feather in its cap and a huge score for Nintendo. Although people will be nervous thinking that motion controls are going to be gimmicked into the game.
What does wiiware and the virtual console services look like on the wii 2? Are new consoles emulated? Would any one shy away from the idea of having HD 8-bit game?
I think the WiiWare (or whatever its next-gen counterpart will be) and VC services will be roughly the same, maybe better organized this time with layouts similar to that of the PSN store so titles have a better chance of being seen and purchased. I don't think we'll be able to bring over our old titles, though. I think Nintendo will concoct a reason to make us purchase our old VC/WW games again, just like the trial balloon they floated earlier with DSiWare not being transferrable. As for the consoles, I think we'll see GameCube, Dreamcast, and potentially Saturn games added to the VC.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 06, 2010, 01:53:59 PM
Development costs could provide an advantage but Nintendo has to actually have lower dev costs. They don't right now, they're just selling a cheaper product. Yeah it costs less to make a Wii game but it has to have Gamecube level visuals. That's not really saving any money, I'm getting what I pay for. If I want the superior graphics of the HD consoles I have to pay extra for it. So Nintendo's hamburger is cheaper than Sony's and Microsoft's steak? Who cares? If Nintendo wants to attract support with lower developer costs they have to sell steak for cheaper.
And I don't think any third party felt for a second that Nintendo was doing them any favour in offering cheaper dev costs. Nintendo did it for themselves and themselves alone. Nintendo did it to save themselves the cost of making HD games and, more importantly, to save themselves on manufacturing the hardware.
We talk about what gestures Nintendo has to do to show third parties that they actually care about third party support. The thing is everybody knows Nintendo doesn't give two shits about it. No one is going to fall for any token gesture, Nintendo has to actually change. They have to actually consider third party support to be important, not just give the impression that they do.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 06, 2010, 01:59:07 PM
Having Final Fantasy XV for the wii 2 would truelly be a feather in its cap and a huge score for Nintendo. Although people will be nervous thinking that motion controls are going to be gimmicked into the game.
What does wiiware and the virtual console services look like on the wii 2? Are new consoles emulated? Would any one shy away from the idea of having HD 8-bit game?
I think the WiiWare (or whatever its next-gen counterpart will be) and VC services will be roughly the same, maybe better organized this time with layouts similar to that of the PSN store so titles have a better chance of being seen and purchased. I don't think we'll be able to bring over our old titles, though. I think Nintendo will concoct a reason to make us purchase our old VC/WW games again, just like the trial balloon they floated earlier with DSiWare not being transferrable. As for the consoles, I think we'll see GameCube, Dreamcast, and potentially Saturn games added to the VC.
Is it too soon to emulate Gamcube because the games are still around?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 06, 2010, 02:06:13 PM
Development costs could provide an advantage but Nintendo has to actually have lower dev costs. They don't right now, they're just selling a cheaper product. Yeah it costs less to make a Wii game but it has to have Gamecube level visuals. That's not really saving any money, I'm getting what I pay for. If I want the superior graphics of the HD consoles I have to pay extra for it. So Nintendo's hamburger is cheaper than Sony's and Microsoft's steak? Who cares? If Nintendo wants to attract support with lower developer costs they have to sell steak for cheaper.
And I don't think any third party felt for a second that Nintendo was doing them any favour in offering cheaper dev costs. Nintendo did it for themselves and themselves alone. Nintendo did it to save themselves the cost of making HD games and, more importantly, to save themselves on manufacturing the hardware.
We talk about what gestures Nintendo has to do to show third parties that they actually care about third party support. The thing is everybody knows Nintendo doesn't give two shits about it. No one is going to fall for any token gesture, Nintendo has to actually change. They have to actually consider third party support to be important, not just give the impression that they do.
If you look at what they're doing with the 3DS, you'll see that this is a much higher priority for them this time around. They seem to have actually considered third party developers when designing the hardware.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Caterkiller on August 06, 2010, 02:13:31 PM
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=14234
Rumours, suggestions and demands regarding an 'upgraded Wii' have been around for nearly as long as the console itself. Exactly what the upgraded version would contain has varied over the years, most commonly focused on either HD graphics or a hard drive, but like many rumours these have eventually fizzle out.
Piers Harding-Rolls has touched upon these suggestions again recently while discussing the future of the current main consoles; the Wii, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. He suggests the successors to the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 will probably be released in 2014 and the successor to the Wii at the end of 2012 in Japan and in 2013 for the rest of the world.
He also suggests that an interim Wii could be released before this, pointing to the fact the DS has had numerous iterations over the last few years. However, he makes no suggestions as to what it could contain or when he expects it could be released.
“Our forecast actually incorporates the idea that there will be an upgraded version of the Wii available. There is potentially significant movement to come from Wii pricing in the future. If you look at the handheld strategy they've got the DSi and the 3DS, so I think they've got room to have to this iterative version before a 2012 or 2013 release.”
Obviously until any official word comes from Nintendo this should just be taken at face value; the speculative comments of an industry analyst.
All from N-europe
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 06, 2010, 02:24:21 PM
Nintendo has historically never released significant revisions to their console hardware, as opposed to nearly always doing so with their handhelds, often multiple times; the changes they have made are usually entirely cosmetic, and include the same, and in some cases actually less, functionality.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 06, 2010, 03:58:52 PM
The wii 2 is going to be a tougher, more reinforced take on the what the wii revolutionized the industry with, motion controls. As for the graphics, there is no reason why it should not be atleast 720p.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on August 06, 2010, 04:05:02 PM
I would like an extacy dispenser on my Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on August 06, 2010, 04:17:52 PM
What about a waffle-iron?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 06, 2010, 04:39:46 PM
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 06, 2010, 04:48:04 PM
That analyst is retarded and so is anybody else who expects Nintendo to "32X" their own userbase with some kind of mild increase in specs or abilities.
I'm gonna ignore all the jabber about how it's Nintendo's fault they've got bad third party support because they had the audacity to innovate controls and because third parties can't sell anything on Wii due to their own horrible reputations. We've had this argument before, and that was the losing side, mainly because all competitors are now aping said controls and a certain Wall of Shame made it plain as day that third parties, even the major ones, flooded the Wii market with crap which hurt their own positions and reputations. Unless Nintendo pointed guns at their heads and said "make garbage or I'll shoot you," then that's on them.
Anyway about the Wii successor...
A whole back I made a link between something Iwata said at E3 2006 about load times:
Quote
I am busier, busier than ever and if I have to wait 30 seconds or 40 seconds or more for a game to load, often, I get frustrated. And sometimes, I just can not wait. And now that I know I can instantly stop or start playing my DS by just closing or opening the top, I think I am spoiled.
This got me to thinking that the next console will ditch discs in favor of a cartridge or specialized SD card that ranges from 8-32GB, which will have a "large enough" capacity for all those mega epics and HD art assets, yet be small enough so that developers can use only what they need. Solid State ROMs like that are falling in price rapidly, as evidenced by Nintendo's use of a card that has a 2GB maximum capacity at launch for the 3DS. The sizes I propose should be cheap enough to buy in bulk in one and a half years.
But, that got me to thinking about loading speed in general, and how Nintendo could design a console that completely eliminates all forms of loading times, by utilizing both carts/cards and a 16, 32, or (hopefully cheap enough by then) 64 GB Solid State drive as the storage solution (This is already what the Wii has, really. It's just really tiny.) This allows for lighting fast read/write speeds compared to Hard disk and a generally more pleasant user experience as they never need to see a loading bar again.
Now sure, the size will be considered rather "puny" in 2011-2012 when I'm sure the PS4 and Xbox 3 will be looming with the possible promise of 2 terabyte hard drives to support a push for digital distribution. But Nintendo will not abandon retail models just yet. IN fact, if they remain the only video game console in retail stores that also sells games, they would have a significant advantage. Imagine walking into a Walmart/Gamestop and walking up to their case or wall of games and seeing that only 3DS and Wii2 games are even on the shelf, despite the Xbox 3 and the PS4 also being sold in the same store. Who will Walmart and Gamestop like more? A console that, once sold, basically guarantees you will never see that person again, or a console which ensures more foot traffic and sales?
This actually leaves their competition in somewhat of a pickle. They could go full DD get the benefit of saving money on retail products, but then they would cede a gargantuan retail market to a competitor. If they try a hybrid approach, they'll find it's actually more expensive than picking either one exclusively.
All the sundry aspects like the CPU, GPU, RAM, and internet connection can be beefed up accordingly. You can walk into a computer store and buy components that run rings around the CPU and GPUs of the Xbox 360 and PS3 for half the price they paid for them. That's raw technology for you. The Internet "experience" or whatever can be made to grab the best elements of Xbox Live, ditch the worst parts of Xbox Live and Wi-Fi Connection, and offer it free of charge. All of these will be upgraded in order to find that point where these abilities are "good enough" for your average consumer.
The controller will definitely have whatever advancements they make on Motion Plus already included, as well as possibly included into the nunchuck. I'm wondering if they should include a "classic controller" in the box or try to convert the Wiimote itself into something more "standard." Either way would be acceptable.
But, the main feature of the console should be speed of access. Do whatever you can to eliminate load times from the equation. Have a console that's quiet, rugged, and durable thanks to no moving parts, and have games load almost instantaneously. That will be a killer draw for the console.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on August 06, 2010, 05:02:37 PM
The retail stores won't be put out that fast. As we've seen with other digital sales, you can buy empty game boxes with d/l codes in them among other things. And pure digital distribution won't be coming this next gen. To many people still buy physical games. Plus the PSP Go kinda shot those hopes of an easy switch out the window.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 06, 2010, 05:40:36 PM
Oh I agree. Retail's not going anywhere until manufacturers figure out a way to digitally distribute their consoles. WalMart and GameStop and whoever else are not going to sell the rope that hangs them so they will at best be biased against DD-only system and at worst demand the manufacturer pay them a "tribute" based on how much money they expect to lose from never seeing those customers again.
And download codes inside a game box are indeed the worst consumer product ever imagined. It's all the worst parts of physical media and all the worst parts of DD all in one idiotic idea. Gone is the convenience of not leaving your home, gone is the instant gratification of a physical game! If the next consoles use DD and have that as their means of retaining retail space, the low-information consumers are going to be confused and/or angry.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 06, 2010, 06:13:40 PM
Red Steel 3 should be placed on hold until Nintendo's more advanced motion control system is perfected. That third party game could be used as a good example of the technology.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 06, 2010, 06:21:20 PM
In order for the wii 2 to be successful it must have established third party series that remain loyal to the brand. Red Steel, No More Heroes, Madworld, The Conduit and many others to remain on the system and give it a sense of identity.
lol no. Nintendo just made insane bank this gen not doing that. Throwing a bunch of hardcore titles into a blue ocean is gonna dry that bitch up.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 06, 2010, 06:26:45 PM
I've never hoped more that Deguello is right. Using some sort of "cartridge" or "card" for Nintendo's next system would be wonderful. Though, wouldn't this still cost more to manufacture than whatever type of disc that Sony and Microsoft's next machine will likely use? It may not be very much more, but more is more. And so I could see third-parties complaining about the higher cost of it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on August 06, 2010, 06:53:09 PM
It could, however, be used as a way to counter piracy. It's certainly something for third parties to consider before they complain about costs.
Also, how big would this supposed card be (physically)? Are we talking SD, thumbdrive, cartridge, etc..? Would the box be roughly the size of a DS box? This isn't the most interesting aspect, but it's something I wonder about.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 06, 2010, 06:59:16 PM
I think the DS proves that having proprietary media doesn't mean anything when it comes to fighting piracy.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 06, 2010, 07:00:46 PM
we'll see how that changes if they end up using holograms as an anti-piracy measure
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ymeegod on August 06, 2010, 10:34:09 PM
What nintendo needs to do is lease out their engines or team up with someone like Epic, Steam, ID, ect. There's a few cheap middleware engines out there for the WII but they all seem pretty damn weak and flawed.
Sony has PhyreEngine, MS has all the XNA among other stuff, but what does Nintendo offer? Sure there's some third party middleware stuff that's fairly priced but just imagine what games you could have played if Retro licensed out the MP3 engine.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 06, 2010, 10:44:11 PM
Quote
Though, wouldn't this still cost more to manufacture than whatever type of disc that Sony and Microsoft's next machine will likely use? It may not be very much more, but more is more.
I'm banking on it reducing in price so much that it's negligible, and that 8-16 GB is somewhat of a plateau for what games really need as far as capacity, with a special 32GB Square Enix Option (the 32 GB one will be more expensive, and thus should only be used for the most epic of epics. But even so would dramatically drop in price by the end of next year.) I mean of course, they could come out with a new disc that holds 200 GB but what would be the point?
While higher capacity is neat on paper, you don't actually "feel" the higher capacity when you play a game, do you? It's just sort of a fact you see on the back of the box or on a Press release. But what you DO feel is the loading times. If Nintendo is able to get a 16GB cart that's affordable by the end of next year, they'll have a distinct advantage, IMO, because your average consumer will notice the reduced loadtimes a lot more than they'll notice capacity. This isn't the N64 days where the disc medium has almost ten times the capacity.
Think of it like the DS vs. the PSP When the DS started out, the starting size of the Cards was something like 8-64 MB, later expanding as high as 512 MB, though not many games used it. This was vs. 1.9 GB that the PSP offered day one. The reason that PSP media lost was due to a critical misunderstanding of the types of games required for handheld devices. Loading times are a no-no, as well as the power consumed by it being reliant on an electric motor.
However, it is my opinion that these are not just problems on a handheld, but game problems in general. If Nintendo were to offer a solution that presented HD games at 60 fps (due to falling GPU compnent prices) with a starting capacity of 8 or 16 GB and have them load instantaneously, it would definitely make a larger impact on consumers than more numbers on a spreadsheet.
Quote
And so I could see third-parties complaining about the higher cost of it.
Two things, one good and one bad.
Good: I am of the opinion that third parties will accept a cart standard, seeing as they have no problem with the DS's or 3DS. That could be because of Nintendo's dominance and the "When in Rome" mentality, butit's not liek they are pining for loadtimes and discs on the handheld front.
Bad: It is entirely possible that Nintendo could make a console that suits every need and has no flaw, and certain third parties would still complain (suspiciously very publicly and loudly)about whatever it is that they will complain about next gen, be it "carts," "kiddy," "casual," Nintendo-fanboys-only-buy-Nintendo-games, they're Japanese, etc. so it wouldn't really be in their best interest to kowtow to certain third parties who probably won't develop for them, ever, under any circumstance. Better to bring something that would please current and potential customers and revolutionize game functionality and hope a high userbase will work this time around.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 08, 2010, 01:00:09 PM
Will the wi 2 incorporate multimedia functions? Meaning will it become a DVD and audio player? It is a sure fire bet that a Netflix channel will be available for download on the wii 2 channel. I imagine you could buy movies and TV shows and save them on the wii 2 internal memory like the VC and wiiware titles. Although a music player is still up in the air.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 08, 2010, 01:04:47 PM
I hope Nintendo does incorporate Netflix somehow (not sure if Wii 2 will keep the channel system). The problem with DVD is that Nintendo hates paying licensing fees, that is the same reason Wii and DSi/DSi XL play AAC files rather than MP3 (as MP3 also requires licensing).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 08, 2010, 02:05:37 PM
I hope Nintendo does incorporate Netflix somehow (not sure if Wii 2 will keep the channel system). The problem with DVD is that Nintendo hates paying licensing fees, that is the same reason Wii and DSi/DSi XL play AAC files rather than MP3 (as MP3 also requires licensing).
The wii 2 will retain the channel system because it will be an evolutionary step for the wii brand. The channel system will be retained, but it will be tweaked and upgraded for better functionality. What ever audio player the wii 2 would have would be similar to that of the DSi and possibly the 3DS.
The 360 deal that states that disc free Netflix is exclusive to that system expires some time next year. That is 2011 and I am betting that the wii 2 will reach North America by some time in 2012. Nintendo would be smart to prepackage the Netflix channel onto the wii or atleast have Netflix disc inside the box when the consumer buys the system.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 08, 2010, 02:11:10 PM
The problem with DVD is that Nintendo hates paying licensing fees, that is the same reason Wii and DSi/DSi XL play AAC files rather than MP3 (as MP3 also requires licensing).
Do you mean why it can no longer play MP3s? Because both Endless Ocean and Excite Truck can play MP3s.
My Wii can play DVDs. HA HA HA!
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 08, 2010, 05:55:17 PM
I would not mind seeing a GTA launch title for the wii 2 with the PS360 style presentation.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 08, 2010, 06:28:15 PM
The problem with DVD is that Nintendo hates paying licensing fees, that is the same reason Wii and DSi/DSi XL play AAC files rather than MP3 (as MP3 also requires licensing).
Do you mean why it can no longer play MP3s? Because both Endless Ocean and Excite Truck can play MP3s.
My Wii can play DVDs. HA HA HA!
Yeah, I meant the system itself. If the Wii could do it, Nintendo would have to pay a fee for every Wii system. If it is just certain games, they only have to pay a fee for each copy of the game sold.
As for your other hidden point, I won't get into that issue.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 08, 2010, 07:52:21 PM
The wii 2 will retain the channel system because it will be an evolutionary step for the wii brand. The channel system will be retained, but it will be tweaked and upgraded for better functionality. What ever audio player the wii 2 would have would be similar to that of the DSi and possibly the 3DS.
Oh, god.. I hope it doesn't retain the channel system. That firmware setup is already incredibly archaic as it is. We need something smoother, something more refined, something with a bit more appeal.
Yes, I want a XMB-style Menu/Navigation system for Nintendo's next system ala the PS3's. I don't care to admit it. It's wonderful, and it works incredibly well. There. :P: : :
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 08, 2010, 08:04:26 PM
You actually LIKE the Cross Media Bar? It is so clunky and terrible. The Wii's channel system is much more elegant and easier to get to what you want to do.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 08, 2010, 08:17:00 PM
I like the XMB, it's certainly better than either of the systems Microsoft has used on the 360, but I prefer the Wii channel system. They need a huge change under the hood, but the user experience should remain largely the same, with a few tweaks (such as a folder system of some kind).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 08, 2010, 10:06:59 PM
I like the channel menu. Just because it is simple and easy to use doesn't mean it is archaic; in fact, I'd argue that a complex system that's a pain to figure out is archaic.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 08, 2010, 11:24:30 PM
Maybe if it was done in the style of folders, as insanolord mentioned...that might streamline the experience a bit. I just don't like how there is a channel for EVERYTHING. Folders would definitely be nice.
I just don't feel like Nintendo is going to take that much of a casual-heavy approach next time around with their interface.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 09, 2010, 12:00:56 AM
The XMB is probably my favorite "home menu" simply because of how it's laid out and how easy it is to quickly access the features you need, but its one big fault is that you really have to take the time to explore the sub-menus and figure out where certain things are. Once you figure out the system, you see how everything is quite logically organized. The Xbox 360's latest system menu is a mess of ads and similar-looking menus. Then you have the Xbox Guide, which is another layer of confusing menus and sub-menus. Even after using it for 2 months, I have trouble finding things. The Wii is the simplest and most intuitive of the menus, but it's also the slowest. The loading between the system settings and channels menus particularly annoys me.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 09, 2010, 01:03:21 AM
What is needed for the next Wii is definitely something different in the background and a major tweaking to the Channel System.
Instead of 100 channels to "surf" through, there should be sub channels, like a VC Channel that leads to N64 - SNES -Genesis-etc etc sub channels. Also a Favorites Channel under the VC/WiiWare Channel and a Most/Recently Played Sub Channel. A way to basically organize everything with out having to scroll to the left or right endlessly.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 09, 2010, 01:07:59 AM
The biggest question about the wii successor is whether or not the wii is finished inregards to third parties? It does seem as if third party games are slowly declining and this is usually a sign of a console's life cycle end.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 09, 2010, 01:13:54 AM
I just don't feel like Nintendo is going to take that much of a casual-heavy approach next time around with their interface.
Why not? The "hardcore" crowd isn't going to care if the interface is simple and easy to understand (except the ones who complain about everything, but they're not worth attempting to please), because it has no effect on games. Of all things it would be best to keep simple, that's at the top of the list. I imagine it'll look about the same as it does now, with a few changes to make it faster and more organized. This includes lumping VC games into system channels such as NES, SNES, etc., and I could even see the system settings becoming channels. Nintendo's got a fine menu in place and I only see them building upon it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 09, 2010, 10:16:13 AM
The biggest question about the wii successor is whether or not the wii is finished inregards to third parties? It does seem as if third party games are slowly declining and this is usually a sign of a console's life cycle end.
The Wii will still get the yearly sports releases and movie-based tie-ins (+ Ubisoft shovelware) for a while, but I do think this is the Wii's last year as a viable gaming platform for new 3rd party titles. If they haven't announced a big Wii project by now, they're not going to. I expect many of them are gearing up for Wii 2's almost inevitable announcement at next year's E3.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 09, 2010, 12:42:51 PM
With the Wii interface I think Nintendo is confusing "restrictive" for "simple". It reminds me of Microsoft's approach with PC software, particularly Office, where to makes things easier and more intuitive they restrict things so that people who actually know what the hell they're doing have to fight the interface the whole time. The Wii interface is dumbed down and stupid and is designed for the easily confused.
I don't see why they can't make the current design the default and then offer folders and, you know, organization for intelligent people. Make it in an option. Why is there this attitude that if you provide an option, simpletons will get confused?
Of course there is also inconsistency in the design anyway as each downloaded title is its own channel but the online store is designed logically with categories and organization and such. So Stupid McStupidton is too dumb to have a decent interface but is smart enough to navigate the online store and set up his Wii to go online and all that?
Design the Wii 2 for usability first. If people can handle cellphones then they can handle a videogame system that doesn't treat them like a toddler the whole time.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 09, 2010, 05:04:36 PM
The interface is fine. It will get tweaked and improved but I'd be surprised if they spent much time on it. It's not really an important part of the system anyway. If anything, it should be made as streamlined as possible so that getting to the game is quick and easy. Maybe even have an option to bypass the Menu altogether like the DS has, so you only access the menu when you feel like it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 09, 2010, 05:13:08 PM
Technically the wii is a cartridge based console because if you are utilizing the SD card for storing virtual console and wiiware titles and playing those games off of that SD card, you are playing cartridge games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 09, 2010, 05:25:08 PM
No it's disc-based because of that large disc drive that's in it. Whether VC or WiiWare games use it is immaterial.
I'm actually worried that Nintendo may end up having to keep the disc drive for BC in the Wii successor. And if they do, they should try as hard as they can to hide it off to the side like they did with the GC controller ports. They wouldn't want their customers jamming the carts that will hopefully be the new medium into the Disc Drive, which will have a bigger presence on the front of the system.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 09, 2010, 05:31:18 PM
I just hope the next system uses a hard drive, since it's more durable than flash memory.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 09, 2010, 05:42:38 PM
That's not true. Solid State memory like flash and SSD type things are WAY more durable than regular Hard Drives.
That's why new laptops are starting to come with them exclusively.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 09, 2010, 05:45:17 PM
Really? That hasn't been my experience. I've got plenty of old hard drives that still work fine, including one from a Windows 95 machine that still works just as well as the day I got it. Meanwhile, I know several people who have had their Wii memory become corrupted, and I've heard it's one of the two most common issues with the system (the other being disc drive failure). I've also seen USB flash drives get corrupted often and have to be formatted.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 09, 2010, 05:51:49 PM
I just hope the next system uses a hard drive, since it's more durable than flash memory.
Nintendo will stick with flash memory until the holographic storage medium is cheap enough to utilize.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 09, 2010, 05:54:01 PM
Wait, what kind of "durability" do you mean? Do you mean it being resistant to strikes and extreme temperatures? Because Solid State wins that hands down.
Or do you mean long life? Because Solid State actually did have a problem with that early on but now they've got some pretty long life spans. Not AS long as regular hard drives, but more than long enough to be inside a game machine.
And if we're going by personal experience, I have a WD 1 TB Hard Drive right next to me that worked for precisely 3 days and then stopped working with no error messages or warning.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 09, 2010, 05:57:15 PM
Yeah, I mean durability of use. It would seem hard drives last longer when used properly. With every product, some defective devices are going to get through; it'd be interesting to see some averages on that.
And if solid state lasts long enough for game machines, how come it's a relatively common issue with Wii?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 09, 2010, 05:58:09 PM
Holograms will be a wow factor a future Nintendo system.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 09, 2010, 06:14:34 PM
I like cartridges and I would like it a lot if that became the industry standard again. But I'm concerned that if Nintendo went with it while everyone else stuck with discs that it would negatively affect third party support. Yeah this isn't the sort of cost difference the N64 had but there is a cost difference, no? You can say that it's minor and that carts should be big enough but that sounds like a bunch of excuses. And is that not a good way to sum up Nintendo for the last three gens? Nintendo does things their own weird way and provides a buttload of excuses and third parties balk. In this case the big advantage is load times but do most devs give a ****? That's a big plus for gamers but devs have been willing to have load times in their games for 15 years now. We saw how great Nintendo's own load times were on the Gamecube but most third parties didn't take advantage of that in their own games. I don't think they care and if it came down to load times vs. a slight increase in cost they would stick with the load times.
I think to attract third party support Nintendo has to be as conventional as possible. Doing things their own goofy ass way has never attracted squat. If anything it just re-enforces the idea that Nintendo designs hardware entirely with themselves in mind. I think the key is to match the competition's offering as close as possible and then offer something unique on top of that. From a hardware perspective the Wii had no advantage over the PS3 or X360. The motion control was never an advantage, it was a tradeoff. It became motion control vs. HD hardware and the devs picked HD.
What Nintendo needs is something that is more of less what the competition has but with feature X. I don't know what that is but the idea is that someone wants to use feature X then Nintendo gets that exclusive. But the rest of the console is conventional enough that all of the non-exclusives are released on it as well. Instead of offering apples to Sony's and Microsoft's oranges, Nintendo is offering apples AND oranges.
Regarding the hard drive vs. solid state debate I think it is simple. Sony and MS offer WAY more space. I consider quantity to be more important in this case. Nintendo being Mr. Goofy with excuses about why smaller solid state is better in their mind is not going to accomplish anything. That's the problem!
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 09, 2010, 06:41:32 PM
Quote
But I'm concerned that if Nintendo went with it while everyone else stuck with discs that it would negatively affect third party support.
Didn't hurt DS.
Quote
Doing things their own goofy ass way has never attracted squat.
Ditto. And the 3DS seems to be pretty goofy as well. I mean glasses-less 3D? Come on Nintendo, choose the conventional glasses model like everybody else!
Quote
In this case the big advantage is load times but do most devs give a ****?
I don't care what a bunch of corporate suits want (thought you wouldn't either but, oh well.) I care what would serve customers and gamers better.
Quote
It became motion control vs. HD hardware and the devs picked HD.
And the customers picked motion control. Just like they picked touchscreen. This is why Nintendo's rich and most third parties are struggling.
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Nintendo being Mr. Goofy with excuses about why smaller solid state is better in their mind is not going to accomplish anything.
But it is better for game consoles and gamers to have fast access speeds and more durable consoles as a result of no moving parts. More storage space isn't going to mean much if you never get close to using it all, and if MS and Sony are going to offer such large storage space as a shooting off point for their Digital Distribution-only approaches, then it becomes a little less clear cut than "More Storage space wins."
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 09, 2010, 07:06:21 PM
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Ditto. And the 3DS seems to be pretty goofy as well. I mean glasses-less 3D? Come on Nintendo, choose the conventional glasses model like everybody else!
Don't be cheeky. The 3DS is a good example of my "same thing with feature X" suggestion. It's like the DS only it has better specs and this cool new 3D feature. Take away the 3D and it's still a DS 2, no tradeoff. The DS is the same thing. It's got all this new stuff but underneath it all it's a GBA with better specs. This is the methodology that I think would work. The Wii always had a "but..." excuse for the motion control. The 3DS does not. It's all you had in the DS plus with significantly beefed up specs and this cool new feature that you don't even have to use if you don't want to.
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I don't care what a bunch of corporate suits want (thought you wouldn't either but, oh well.) I care what would serve customers and gamers better.
Third party support serves customers and gamers better than anything else. All I give a damn about is if the best games are on the console I bought. What corporate suits want matters when it comes down to them making the decision about which consoles to support. Otherwise any "benefit" to me is all theoretical.
Nintendo has to play ball to some extent to get any decent third party support for their consoles. Whatever strategy they have had for THREE generations has not worked at all. They're the ONLY company ever to have a market leading console with the WORST third party support. They've got to do something different.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BeautifulShy on August 09, 2010, 07:23:33 PM
Since when did this topic turn into a topic about 3rd party support? This is a topic about what you think the next Nintendo system will work like. What features and so on.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 09, 2010, 07:41:57 PM
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It's got all this new stuff but underneath it all it's a GBA with better specs.
How is this different from the Wii? It's still a GameCube with better specs right? And you can't even use the comparison to 360 and PS3 because the DS itself had competition with the PSP and it was leagues ahead of the DS in terms of graphical power.
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Third party support serves customers and gamers better than anything else.
I can give several examples as to why this can be untrue. When a bunch of third parties didn't care about quality they flooded the market with cheap crap and caused that big video game crash in the early 80's. Third parties pledged higher support for the PSP initially, but because the PSP had so many hardware design flaws (chief amongst them being a low battery due in part to a disc-based medium) their support meant little. Hell, it was one of the big "pros" for the PSP, the assumption of it having higher third party support than some weird gimmicky touchscreen system that uses carts. And if we can't learn any lessons from the highest selling video game system ever, well...
Maxi, it became about third party support the moment I suggested Nintendo uses some kind of cartridge or card-based system for the Wii2 to cut down moving parts, load times, and power use, banking on the idea that 8 and 16 GB cards will be cheap enough in bulk to house the majority of any game types and that game sizes won't ever need to go above 16GB. It was basically inevitable from then.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 09, 2010, 08:23:55 PM
I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 10, 2010, 01:53:42 AM
I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.
I'd rather blow into my cartridges for 20 years then have my consoles break after 5.
Yes, because CDs are the sole reason for that. ::) The more complicated a mechanical system becomes, the more likely that it will break. That's just how it is.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 10, 2010, 02:08:05 AM
You don't have to blow into cartridges if you store them in a safe place and keep them clean. Blowing into them may actually cause more damage in the long run.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 10, 2010, 07:21:27 AM
I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.
I'd rather blow into my cartridges for 20 years then have my consoles break after 5.
Yes, because CDs are the sole reason for that. ::) The more complicated a mechanical system becomes, the more likely that it will break. That's just how it is.
Actually, yeah the CDs are the cause of it, because they require those complicated mechanical systems, because without them, they're coasters.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 10, 2010, 10:16:09 AM
I refuse to return to the days when we had to blow into a cartridge to get it to work.
I'd rather blow into my cartridges for 20 years then have my consoles break after 5.
Yes, because CDs are the sole reason for that. ::) The more complicated a mechanical system becomes, the more likely that it will break. That's just how it is.
Actually, yeah the CDs are the cause of it, because they require those complicated mechanical systems, because without them, they're coasters.
There's also hard disc drives (and make no mistake: if Nintendo's manufacturing it, they'll use the cheapest options available and will go with HDDs) and fans that can (and do) break, assuming that Nintendo would use the HDD to install game data and download VC/WW-type games. In fact, my PS3 right now is in for repair right now with a broken fan that caused it to overheat.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 10, 2010, 11:21:48 AM
You don't have to blow into cartridges if you store them in a safe place and keep them clean. Blowing into them may actually cause more damage in the long run.
Indeed. I always kept my SNES/N64 games (and maybe even my NES games) in these clear/blue plastic keepcases. Aside from the games I bought used from Blockbuster and whatnot, I never had a problem with dust or dirt on the cartridges themselves. Now the consoles, on the other hand, did have to be periodically cleaned with ther proper cleaning chemicals and some Q-Tips.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 10, 2010, 12:26:52 PM
I only have to blow in carts for NES games and the NES is an exceptionally unreliable system because of the cart loading mechanism. I have never had issues with the SNES or N64 except for the rare isolated incedent. But I have had to deal with smudges and scratches on discs. There are problems either way.
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I can give several examples as to why this can be untrue. When a bunch of third parties didn't care about quality they flooded the market with cheap crap and caused that big video game crash in the early 80's.
Obviously I'm talking about GOOD third party support. If Nintendo wants to truly satisfy their customers they should have as many of the best games on their console as possible. The last time they had it on a console was with the SNES.
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How is this different from the Wii? It's still a GameCube with better specs right? And you can't even use the comparison to 360 and PS3 because the DS itself had competition with the PSP and it was leagues ahead of the DS in terms of graphical power.
Take away the touchscreen and two screens and mic and the DS is STILL a worthwhile successor to the GBA. It was not comparible to the PSP but it was still a significant jump up from the GBA. And the 3DS without the 3D stuff is still, on specs alone, a significant jump up from the DS. Take away the motion control and the Wii would be an absolute rip-off joke of a successor to the Cube. Without motion control they could never get away with it in a million years. You pretty much can't even tell the difference.
Talking about third party support makes sense when talking about the next gen because we want Nintendo to improve on any shortcomings with their next console. I think third party support is one of those shortcomings. I think from Nintendo's comments about the 3DS that they want the casual market but don't like the idea of being regarded as the casual gamer company and that they want to maintain the core market as well. To do that with the Wii 2 they could have to improve third party support.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 10, 2010, 01:43:50 PM
Wii 2 wow factor = thid party success?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 10, 2010, 01:55:20 PM
Not likely, but man I hope it turns out to be. The problem I see is that the Wii hype machine and demand has already peaked and fallen. We know 3rd parties didn't take the Wii seriously at launch and put out AAA software because they underestimated how well the Wii would sell, using GameCube sales as their basis of comparison. By the time 3rd parties started taking the Wii more seriously, no one was buying their software. Now we're in the period where once again 3rd parties don't have faith that the Wii is a viable platform for major titles. It'll be interesting to see if history repeats itself and we see 3rd parties using weak 3rd party Wii software sales as the basis for not taking the Wii 2 seriously, especially if the PS3 continues to gain traction and Kinect takes off for Microsoft.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 10, 2010, 02:05:32 PM
I am under the impression that Move and Kinect will not gain as much momentum as motion control for the wii. The PS3 and 360 are just too hard core for such things as motion control.
As far as storage solutions go, I have a feeling that we will not have to worry about filling up our wii 2 fridges any time soon.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 10, 2010, 02:20:31 PM
There is a way to adapt motion control to the "core" group of gamers out there, including myself... it's just... I don't believe it's been created yet. Wii comes really close, especially with Motion +, but I think there's more that can be done. Precision movements and gestures are of the utmost importance here. However, I do love my Wii games... the "core" based games, that is. Out of the 30+ games I own for the Wii, maybe 5 are more casual oriented. But 360/PS3 only gamers out there don't see this... they see waggle. I wish they could see it from the perspective of the core Nintendo fans left in this world, but that's probably never gonna happen -- until a new method of motion is created.
I fully expect Nintendo to do this with its next console...all the while keeping in tune with what core gamers love most. And that's traditional controls. It is possible to have the best of both worlds, ya know.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 10, 2010, 02:37:48 PM
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We know 3rd parties didn't take the Wii seriously at launch and put out AAA software because they underestimated how well the Wii would sell, using GameCube sales as their basis of comparison. By the time 3rd parties started taking the Wii more seriously, no one was buying their software. Now we're in the period where once again 3rd parties don't have faith that the Wii is a viable platform for major titles. It'll be interesting to see if history repeats itself and we see 3rd parties using weak 3rd party Wii software sales as the basis for not taking the Wii 2 seriously, especially if the PS3 continues to gain traction and Kinect takes off for Microsoft.
Third parties like ports so I figure if the Wii 2 is comparable in hardware to whatever else is out there at the time (I'm guessing the PS3 and X360 are going to around for a while still) then they'll probably port whatever titles are big at the time and I think that will give the Wii 2 more credibiliy. With the Wii they were porting old PS2 games since that was a better hardware match. A port of a six month old game is pretty normal for a launch. Ports of last gen games are not and those are a harder sell. Stuff like Guitar Hero 3 where it was a current multiplatform game that was just a little bit late on the Wii sold well.
What I want to see from Nintendo is more of the everyone console they always talk about. They made some big cash from casuals and non-gamers so, though I personally would prefer it, I'm not going to ask them to abandon that group in favour of core gamers. But the Wii was and is very much a more casual oriented system. Even if that wasn't the plan, that's what happened. Core gamers picked the PS3 and X360 and the developers all picked those consoles as well. I want something more balanced. I want the Wii 2 to be the number one choice for everyone - core, casual, whatever. Right now it's like the industry is split between two markets. Let's have one market and Nintendo's console on top of that. I want middle-aged housewives and their teenage sons playing the same console, just different games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 10, 2010, 03:05:29 PM
A port of Resident Evil 5 for wii 2 with advanced motion controls would be nice. But just porting over titles from the HD consoles is not a good idea on its own. We need new third party titles built from the ground up.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 10, 2010, 03:12:29 PM
A port of Resident Evil 5 for wii 2 with advanced motion controls would be nice. But just porting over titles from the HD consoles is not a good idea on its own. We need new third party titles built from the ground up.
I don't think we're going to have a choice but to see only Wii 2-exclusive 3rd party games. I think Nintendo's ego, as a company, is too big to allow themselves after Wii to release a console that's "only" more powerful and "only" has better motion controls (especially after Sony and Microsoft already did that). I think they saw with Wii, DS, and now 3DS that gimmicks are the way to go with supplementary toys added here and there for certain games (see: the Classic Controller, MotionPlus, the Wii Wheel, WiiSpeak, the Wii Balance Board, and perhaps eventually the Vitality Sensor), and they'll force some new control interface on us that makes even porting titles not worth the time and resources. For the sake of actually having 3rd party support on Wii 2, I hope they don't do that but I suspect Nintendo's pride won't allow them to do anything less as a follow-up to Wii.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 10, 2010, 04:21:47 PM
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A port of Resident Evil 5 for wii 2 with advanced motion controls would be nice. But just porting over titles from the HD consoles is not a good idea on its own. We need new third party titles built from the ground up.
No, RE5 is too old. I mean like a port that is only a few months old. Let's say for example that Nintendo released the Wii 2 later this year and Final Fantasy XIII was one of the launch titles. That game came out this year. It's a pretty recent title so in the end the Wii 2 version would only be about seven or eight months old. It would be a port but it would be released close enough to the original release that if it did well Square Enix would think that making Final Fantasy XIV for all three consoles would be the ideal way to go. Realistically I think the goal should be to get rid of that situation where games are released for everything BUT Nintendo's console. Just getting those multiplatform games would be good enough, especially since in this day and age third party exclusives are more rare. I think if it was easy to do, third parties would do it.
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I think Nintendo's ego, as a company, is too big to allow themselves after Wii to release a console that's "only" more powerful and "only" has better motion controls (especially after Sony and Microsoft already did that).
I fully expect them to do that and I think it's important to attract the casual market. But I don't think it matters unless they specifically DON'T do that other stuff and just end up making a Wii 1.5 with everything riding on the new gimmick. I don't care about the gimmick, just don't skimp on the other stuff. If they at the very least don't put themselves at a major hardware disadvantage again, things will improve. I want a normal controller as a pack-in as well but I'm really not expecting that. But just don't make it so we trade better hardware for a gimmick controller.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 10, 2010, 05:07:51 PM
I do not care about gimmicks as long as Nintendo keeps up with the times. Now, Nintendo has always done buisness by staying one step behind their competition and offering a better deal. The wii 2 will have high defenition graphics, but it will be blended with Nintendo's magic.
Having a GTA and a true Final Fantasy game for the wii 2 would be a massive deal for Nintendo. It would symbolize third parties attempts to make the wii 2 a viable play ground for their games on the system.
Activision needs to put Bungie on developing a massive new franchise for the wii2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 10, 2010, 05:36:30 PM
I fully expect Nintendo to do this with its next console...all the while keeping in tune with what core gamers love most. And that's traditional controls.
Speak for yourself.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 10, 2010, 05:43:47 PM
I fully expect Nintendo to do this with its next console...all the while keeping in tune with what core gamers love most. And that's traditional controls.
Speak for yourself.
No. I'm speaking for the majority of core gamers. :)
Look, I love motion controls, too, ok. But you and I don't fall under the typical "core" gamer stereotype that plagues the industry that we love in current times. We're also Nintendo gamers, and all I'm suggesting is, like Ian has been saying, that Nintendo cater to BOTH crowds this next go-around. That's all.
No defying you. Promise. :)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 10, 2010, 05:49:00 PM
I don't know mate, I don't really believe the stereotype that "core" or "hardcore" gamers don't like change. I don't think it's that they don't want motion control, I think it's that they want meaningful motion control if it suits the game type, that doesn't replace traditional control or come at a sacrifice of other features like HD and online play. Fixing that issue is still doing what you suggest, so I guess it doesn't really matter which is the case.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 10, 2010, 06:16:37 PM
I don't know mate, I don't really believe the stereotype that "core" or "hardcore" gamers don't like change. I don't think it's that they don't want motion control, I think it's that they want meaningful motion control if it suits the game type, that doesn't replace traditional control or come at a sacrifice of other features like HD and online play. Fixing that issue is still doing what you suggest, so I guess it doesn't really matter which is the case.
That's about where I am with Motion Control: if it's done well, I don't mind it. But I want the option of using traditional controls.
Similarly, I can tolerate casual-focused mini-game collections like Wii Sports Resort, but I also want First Person Shooters, RPGs, 3rd Person Shooters, Adventure Games, etc. I want the richer experiences along with the casual games, something the Wii couldn't manage more than once or twice a year (forcing me to have to purchase the other two consoles to fulfill my gaming needs). I want that variety with Wii 2, and for that matter I'd also like Nintendo to actually make a new game from a new core-oriented franchise on Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 10, 2010, 06:24:33 PM
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I don't know mate, I don't really believe the stereotype that "core" or "hardcore" gamers don't like change. I don't think it's that they don't want motion control, I think it's that they want meaningful motion control if it suits the game type, that doesn't replace traditional control or come at a sacrifice of other features like HD and online play.
That's more or less how I feel about it. I don't hate motion control in theory, it's just that so far the best use of it has been a sports themed mini-game collection. Usually "motion control" means substituting responsive controls for gimmicky hand waving that is less precise and more of a pain in the ass to perform than just a button press. It seems to be a concept that so far has a lot of kinks to work out and for me its presence usually makes a game WORSE because I feel I have to fight the controls. Sony and MS appear to be continuing the trend of it being an irritating novelty which is kind of a bummer. I just want to play good games with non-broken controls. Until you get motion control running smoothly then please give me the option to pretend it doesn't even exist and choose normal controls that have worked like a dream for over 30 years.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 10, 2010, 07:54:29 PM
What will the wii 2 look like? I am betting that it will similar to the wii, but with a few minor tweaks. I actually liked the look of the N64, so a return to that design would be kind of nice.
If games for the wii 2 have the same production value as thos for the PS360, I may never buy another console ever again.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on August 10, 2010, 09:24:13 PM
What will the wii 2 look like? I am betting that it will similar to the wii, but with a few minor tweaks. I actually liked the look of the N64, so a return to that design would be kind of nice.
If games for the wii 2 have the same production value as thos for the PS360, I may never buy another console ever again.
I told myself that when the Gamecube was called the N2000. Look where we are now.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 11, 2010, 08:05:07 AM
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It'll be interesting to see if history repeats itself and we see 3rd parties using weak 3rd party Wii software sales as the basis for not taking the Wii 2 seriously,
Nah, historically weak performance doesn't matter as much as you think it does. If it did, then nobody would have made games for the Xbox 360, because the original Xbox was pretty weak tea for third parties.
Besides, they won't be fooling anybody. Everybody knows third parties make garbage for the Wii, and that's why their titles sell horribly. At least, that's the narrative they themselves created.
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especially if the PS3 continues to gain traction and Kinect takes off for Microsoft.
Kinect and move won't take off unless Microsoft and Sony fans are the biggest hypocrites in the world, what with 4 years straight of "gimmick!" until their favorite companies announced their versions. Considering both have had some pretty lackluster previews, I'd say both of these things are pretty niche and probably won't amount to much except crippling losses for both.
I may give the impression that I ride third parties pretty hard, and sometimes I do, but I really don't hate them. In fact I don't think Nintendo hates them either, or is indifferent to their concerns, but they can be very frustrating to deal with. I'm sure Nintendo's willing to meet them halfway like they did with 3DS hardware and stuff, but that still means the third parties have to go the other half and develop strong titles. And as long as they keep making spinoff after excuse after bad port after shovelware, as a gamer, it's really hard to be on their side when it comes to how their games sell on Nintendo's platforms.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 11, 2010, 04:56:49 PM
Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment. Why are third parties so important for a Nintendo console? Third parties have not had much ground on their systems since the days of the N64 and Nintendo still done fairly well. After all, Nintendo games are good enough alone for you to buy their consoles, right?
The answer is that without third parties Nintendo would have to drastically churn out their own games at a much more constant pace. For example, the development time for Skyward Sword was how long? Five year od so since Twilight Princess? Would any one wait around that long to play that game without some third party game to keep them company.
Overall, third parties act as a buffer zone for Nintendo that provides them protection from the ire of the consumer. It keeps them out of the lime light long enough to reasearch and develope their titles.
On a side note, most of the games for my wii and DS are third party and the rest are a few of Nintendo's titles such as Punch-Out!, SM Galaxy 2, Brawl, NSB wii and wii sports.
Third parties will be successful on Nintendo consoles when they go from after thought development to priority development of their titles.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 11, 2010, 06:08:39 PM
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Why are third parties so important for a Nintendo console? Third parties have not had much ground on their systems since the days of the N64 and Nintendo still done fairly well. After all, Nintendo games are good enough alone for you to buy their consoles, right?
I don't think they're so important for Nintendo as Nintendo seems to make money without them. They're important to having a good variety of titles. One company can't provide enough variety on their own. Nintendo is my favourite dev but there are certain types of games they just don't make. And even then I don't want to ONLY play Nintendo games. I like pizza but I'm not going to eat it for every meal. It's nice to have variety.
I was very patient with the N64 because at the time I thought this was a one time goof. Nintendo had previously been very on the ball and this cartridge thing had fucked everything up but people make mistakes. I figured going with a gen of weak third party support was acceptable and then Nintendo would get back on track and things would improve dramatically. It helped also that the N64 first party games were some of the best games ever made. Nintendo was fortunate that their peak as a developer hit during this unfortunate timeframe where they had weak third party support.
I had less patience on the Gamecube though I still cut it a bit of a slack because it was the last place console. I felt it was entirely Nintendo's own severe incompetence that put them in last place and I was not very tolerant about that. The Gamecube was when I found out the N64 cartridge thing wasn't a one time **** up by an otherwise brilliant company. Nope, Nintendo really didn't know what they were doing.
I have zero patience for the Wii's third party situation because it is the market leader and that was until now the formula for attracting the best third party support. I never was willing to buy a console just for Nintendo's games, I just put up with it. I won't put up with it anymore because Nintendo no longer has an acceptable excuse. I consider good third party support a mandatory requirement for a good videogame system. I only cut slack if the console is an underdog and it's just doing the best it can given the circumstances.
I tend to side more with the third parties because of Nintendo's reputation and the extreme unlikeliness that EVERY third party is colluding together to specifically screw the Wii over, even if it means going out of business or that every videogame company in the world except Nintendo are a bunch of idiots. I see the Wii's hardware incompatibility with the HD consoles as a much more likely source of the problem. And who designed the hardware? Nintendo, thus I hold them responsible.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on August 11, 2010, 07:10:53 PM
Hmmm a solid state HDD and solid state games would be pretty damn cool...I for one hate loading times (even the cool ones that let you do something while waiting -- FIFA comes to mind). Also SSD would allow for the 64DD to be resurrected which would be pretty damn cool.
Honestly, the ability to rewrite things on the game cards could be huge. The easiest thing to imagine is having gamesaves save directly on the card and not only the harddrive (also firmware upgrade to games and such).
SSD and SSD games HD and a more accurate Wiimote would be enough for me to consider purchasing.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 11, 2010, 07:53:42 PM
I just have to wonder how third parties will react when the wii 2 and its high defenition graphics is revealed. Chances are they will just keep doing th status quo, but I am interested to see how established wii franchises like Red Steel, Conduit, No More Heroes, and several others evolve into high definition graphics on the wii successor.
What are some major third party franchises that should appear on the wii2?
Conduit 3?
If the wii 2 had HD graphics, would there be any problem with playing it on SDTV?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on August 11, 2010, 08:06:22 PM
1st question: Don't care
2nd question: Lame
3rd question: Use common sense or the internet...your choice.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 11, 2010, 09:22:38 PM
Kytim, both the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 play HD games. In fact, until September 2009 Microsoft required that ALL Xbox 360 games be in HD. Not to mention HD movies. HD games fine on all TVs. They may not look as good (in fact, there is no point in buying a Blu-ray Disc player if you only own a SDTV), but they work just the same.
As for your first question, I hope every major third party franchise will appear on Wii 2.
Your second question I can't answer since I have never played The Conduit. I wouldn't be opposed to more games though.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Deguello on August 11, 2010, 10:43:58 PM
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I have zero patience for the Wii's third party situation because it is the market leader and that was until now the formula for attracting the best third party support.
Do you remember that episode of the Simpsons where Homer becomes head of the Stonecutters Society through some old code about a birthmark indicating some kind of "chosen one." And they were all repulsed and hated the idea of Homer being the leader of their club so they instituted a new club called the No Homers?
Not to inject a tiny bit of politics, but did you ever wonder why all of a sudden Barack Obama's "citizenship" was suddenly being questioned by people who just HATED the idea of a black man being president?
For years it was the third parties who were denying support to Nintendo's consoles on this very issue, and the moment they had to put their money where their mouth was, all of a sudden, excuse after excuse came out, trying to hide the fact that most of them had prematurely chosen the PS3 or the 360 as their bets for the market leader, or their pockets were stuffed with moneyhats the whole time last generation.
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I tend to side more with the third parties because of Nintendo's reputation and the extreme unlikeliness that EVERY third party is colluding together to specifically screw the Wii over,
Who said they were all working together? They could all be equally independently idiotic and all tried a bunch of spinoffs nobody wanted or Wii Sports knockoffs or half-hearted casual games meant to cash in or drum up revenue for risky HD titles. And WOW! That's what happened.
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even if it means going out of business or that every videogame company in the world except Nintendo are a bunch of idiots.
You know I tend to get my knuckles rapped for continually bringing up Nintendo's quite lucrative existence for the past three years or so vs. their competition and their detractors. But, here said facts are very useful in determining this particular subject matter. Just going by profits and revenues, Nintendo is indeed a very smart company, and third parties, generally, have been struggling quite severely, (sans any that have a direct line of revenue for continued existence from a console manufacturer.) and some have almost institutionalized losses over the last 3 years, which would indicate them as less than smart, wouldn't you agree?
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I see the Wii's hardware incompatibility with the HD consoles as a much more likely source of the problem.
Are you trying to make my point for me? Here you indicate that suddenly something other than market leadership is the main factor for third parties' support, when they used to parrot on and on about "userbase this, marketshare that." Everybody last generation (including you yourself) said that was the #1 thing Nintendo had to fix for the next round. "Get a higher userbase." And they did. And now suddenly it's about a bunch of other factors they didn't care about last generation until suddenly they do this generation.
Nintendo should continue their efforts to meet whatever 3rd parties' wishes are as far as hardware goes, while trying simultaneously to be freshly innovative to retain their advantage over their console competitors (see: motion control, glasses-less 3-D, elimination of loadtimes, etc). But unless there is some sort of guarantee that third parties will make strong games for the system, they shouldn't go above and beyond what they're already doing as far as this issue is concerned. Maybe the idea of the Wii2 being considered a smashing success regardless of actual performance before it is released will play in next round. It worked for the PS3.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 11, 2010, 11:08:22 PM
1) I like to make mock-ips
2) I watched Tron, movie changed my life :P
3) its modern incarnation is also probably the next design fad
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 12, 2010, 12:42:13 PM
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Are you trying to make my point for me? Here you indicate that suddenly something other than market leadership is the main factor for third parties' support, when they used to parrot on and on about "userbase this, marketshare that." Everybody last generation (including you yourself) said that was the #1 thing Nintendo had to fix for the next round. "Get a higher userbase." And they did. And now suddenly it's about a bunch of other factors they didn't care about last generation until suddenly they do this generation
The Wii is an anomally. Nothing similar to it has every happened before. No one ever launched a competing console with such a huge difference in hardware before. This isn't like PS2 vs. Xbox, it's like N64 vs. Xbox. The idea of Nintendo even doing such a thing never crossed anyone's mind. So market share seemed like the ideal thing to fix because there was the assumption that that and third party were linked. The N64 repelled third party support with its hardware and the weak third party support repelled gamers.
Nintendo targetted this new market that no one else had thought of. That's a big reason why it has been so successful, no one else thought of it. But that also changed things. The idea that being the market leader and having the best third party support are always linked made sense under the old market. But now Nintendo was targetting a large amount of new customers that would not value third party support as much. So now we have a situation where a console with weak third party support can become the market leader based on a new segment of the market that does not value the same things the old one did. But that doesn't change the hardware. It's incompatible with the other consoles and does not allow for multiplatform development without major headaches and compromises.
I think most third parties would release their PS360 games on the Wii if they could. I think Dead Rising and Dead Space probably started off as attempts to do so and were turned into spinoffs when it clearly wasn't going to work. I think a lot of the spinoffs, at least initially, were attempts to get some content on the Wii because porting the multiplatform game wasn't an option. Namco wants Soul Calibur IV on the Wii, can't do it, makes some Wii exclusive Soul Calibur title instead. And then it bombs and Namco is mad about that and Wii owners are mad at them for releasing hastly-made junk and everything is poisoned. Third parties act like the Wii is just a bunch of casual gamers but the weak third party support is likely the cause of that. And third parties picked the wrong horse initially (though can anyone blame them for that?) But if they could have just been able to include their multiplatform releases on the Wii all that would have been avoided. Why wouldn't they do that if they could have? It's obviously easier to do that then create a seperate product.
The Wii's hardware incompatibility made it so they had to make Wii exclusive content but they were already invested in PS360 games. Let's say you're a third party and you've got five games planned for the year and all of them are multiplatform to maximize sales potential. Then Nintendo's console is selling but you can't just port those five games, you have to make something exclusive. But you already started on those five games. What do you do but piece together what you can to get something on there? If the Wii had comparable hardware they could have just brought their PS360 games to it. It would have been an easy transition and would have worked with the existing plans without much fuss. Making a system that is so different that it pretty much requires exclusives-only is not third party friendly at all because now everybody has to have a seperate team for Wii development and they have to make two games to have content on all systems instead of just one.
If Nintendo wants to have better third party support being port-friendly is key. Multiplatform is the way things work now. It's the safest bet for third parties to take since they don't have to put their eggs in one basket. I'll bet everyone just assumed everyone would be similar this gen so they could all just make multiplatform releases and not have to pick anyone and then Nintendo goofed those plans up big time with the Wii. That's business I guess. But being able to tell third parties that they're safe no matter what horse they pick would be ideal. Even with the same third party releases as the other consoles, Nintendo's first party content would give them an edge.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 12, 2010, 12:57:35 PM
That look is way too cool for Nintendo to use, though.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 14, 2010, 02:32:10 PM
Would it be better for the wii 2 to emulate the gamecube on a virtual console, or to keep backwards compatibility similar to what the wii already has right now?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 14, 2010, 02:40:49 PM
Would it be better for the wii 2 to emulate the gamecube on a virtual console, or to keep backwards compatibility similar to what the wii already has right now?
Always backward compatibility. But I think the Wii 2 will use mostly new hardware this time, so it would not be feasible anymore unless they want to include hardware they don't need. But I can almost be Nintendo isn't worried about the GameCube anymore anyway.
Emulation isn't an easy option.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 14, 2010, 03:23:01 PM
They won't be worried about GameCube compatibility, but I'd be very surprised if they didn't want Wii backward compatibility, and, since the two systems are so similar, if they're going to include that, it would be pretty easy to include GameCube as well.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 14, 2010, 03:57:27 PM
Would it be better for the wii 2 to emulate the gamecube on a virtual console, or to keep backwards compatibility similar to what the wii already has right now?
Always backward compatibility. But I think the Wii 2 will use mostly new hardware this time, so it would not be feasible anymore unless they want to include hardware they don't need. But I can almost be Nintendo isn't worried about the GameCube anymore anyway.
Emulation isn't an easy option.
PS2 BC on PS3 was done with a single chip, same with GBC BC on GBA and GBA on DS, it wouldn't be that difficult to make the Wii 2 BC with Wii, it would be pretty stupid not to make it be able to play Wii games.
As for emulating GameCube games, I could see them doing both emulation and BC. The Xbox 360 lets you download Xbox games in addition to playing the physical discs, i addition to Xbox 360 games being downloadable.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on August 14, 2010, 04:24:54 PM
While I would appreciate GC BC, that would entail including GC controller ports, memory card ports, the chip, and the special disc drive. I would understand if Nintendo deemed the benefit not being worth the cost, especially considering GC games and accessories are no longer sold at retail.
Actually this is making me think whether it would be possible to release a "Wii slim", where all these GC components have been removed.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 14, 2010, 04:52:55 PM
A special disc drive is not needed to play the GC discs. Memory cards could be used for Wii games too if Nintendo wanted to, and the GameCube controller was well used for Wii games (including Virtual Console games) and I think Nintendo realizes this since several of their Wii games supported it. I don't think they cost too much, but we don't know for sure.
The Wii is about as small as it can be. At most they might be able to make the height like 0.2 inches less, the only GC parts that add any size to the system are the controller/memory card ports and those are not that big.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on August 14, 2010, 05:08:29 PM
Does the Wii not have a special disc drive which allows it to accept both GC-sized and DVD-sized discs? I remember the engineers bragging about it when it was first released.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 14, 2010, 05:12:06 PM
Does the Wii not have a special disc drive which allows it to accept both GC-sized and DVD-sized discs? I remember the engineers bragging about it when it was first released.
Yes, it does, but I don't know if it's any more expensive than a standard drive, which is the one reason Nintendo would have to remove compatibility.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 14, 2010, 05:14:29 PM
The wii is going to be to the wii 2 what the Gamecube was to the wii(are you confused?). Basically the wii 2 will play wii games, but will emulate Gamecube.
What I looked to happen is that Nintendo might go ahead and pot Gamecube on the wii 2 virtual console as a cost cutting measure. I also think that Nintendo will do away with the controller and memory ports of the Gamecube to make the machine smaller.
This brings up an interesting question. How will we be able to play the games? There are two answers to this question: first, they might create something like a Gamecube classic controller that plugs into the port of the wiimote 2. Or, second, they could require that everyone use the wavebird controller and the wii 2 will have a built wavebird eye that you set to a certain channel in the wii 2 accessories menu.
The one thing that needs drastic improvment is the virtual console service. I mean the interface is poorly designed and too slow for its purpose. If Nintendo renovates this service for their next console, there needs to be something like a shopping cart for purchasing games. There must also be a list of games that you have downloaded and you can just return to that list to download certain games instead of having to resort to sorting through all the pages to get a particular game downloaded.
I have a strong feeling that Dreamcast is coming to the virtual console service when the wii 2 is released. Still not sure about Saturn, but that would be a very nice addition. Select 32X and SEGA CD games would be a plus as well.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 14, 2010, 05:23:49 PM
Assuming the Wii 2 will be compatible with Wii games, emulating the GameCube would be more expensive than including full hardware compatibility. The Wii hardware is literally a more powerful version of the GameCube hardware, meaning it would take very little work to get the hardware for Wii compatibility to also work for GameCube games. Emulating the GameCube would be a lot more work; they'd have to make the emulator and do extensive testing and tweaking, and even then it wouldn't be fully compatible with all games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 14, 2010, 05:40:28 PM
Assuming the Wii 2 will be compatible with Wii games, emulating the GameCube would be more expensive than including full hardware compatibility. The Wii hardware is literally a more powerful version of the GameCube hardware, meaning it would take very little work to get the hardware for Wii compatibility to also work for GameCube games. Emulating the GameCube would be a lot more work; they'd have to make the emulator and do extensive testing and tweaking, and even then it wouldn't be fully compatible with all games.
How powerful is the wii 2 going to be? I am speculating that it will be atleast as powerful as the 360, but maybe not as powerful as the PS3. If the wii 2 does com out soon, I now that it will make both of those systems appear dated by comparisson.
The system will probably retail for atleast $300, but there is a catch. If they release it soon it can comepete evenly with the PS360 because those consoles are in the $300 range. Unless you included the total cost of bot the move and kinect with the price of those consoles, their price goes back into the $300-500 range once again.
3DS: $199.99 Wii 2: $299.99
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 14, 2010, 06:11:27 PM
PS2 Backward compatibility was dropped because of cost after like what, a year?
Also, if Nintendo wants that small form factor, I don't think its likely they'll want to throw all that GC stuff back in there. Lastly, I think the Wii 2 hardware again will be very different from Wii. So say what you want, but I have doubts about even Wii backward compatibility.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 14, 2010, 06:17:13 PM
Sony HAD to cut price, they were losing hundreds of dollars on every single PS3 sold. Cutting out the PS2 chip saved less than $5, but every dollar help Sony move to making a profit. I don't think Nintendo would be stupid enough to not make the Wii 2 backwards compatible, it would save them almost no money and it would just piss off the 75 million+ Wii owners and discourage casual gamers from getting the Wii 2. I have zero doubt that the Wii 2 will play Wii games, the only real question is whether or not it will play GameCube games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 14, 2010, 06:25:23 PM
Sony HAD to cut price, they were losing hundreds of dollars on every single PS3 sold. Cutting out the PS2 chip saved less than $5, but every dollar help Sony move to making a profit. I don't think Nintendo would be stupid enough to not make the Wii 2 backwards compatible, it would save them almost no money and it would just piss off the 75 million+ Wii owners and discourage casual gamers from getting the Wii 2. I have zero doubt that the Wii 2 will play Wii games, the only real question is whether or not it will play GameCube games.
What? You would have no insight to the cost or the change in size of including Wii backwards compatibility.
The friggin' PS3 is massive, you would never know in its case. I realize it was only a single, likely inexpensive chip (research shows $30), but the Wii will likely be a different story.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Morari on August 14, 2010, 06:26:58 PM
Does the Wii not have a special disc drive which allows it to accept both GC-sized and DVD-sized discs? I remember the engineers bragging about it when it was first released.
It's just a few extra springs inside. I've had my Wii apart enough times to recognize the frivolous armatures that catch the disc. :P
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 14, 2010, 06:49:00 PM
Sony HAD to cut price, they were losing hundreds of dollars on every single PS3 sold. Cutting out the PS2 chip saved less than $5, but every dollar help Sony move to making a profit. I don't think Nintendo would be stupid enough to not make the Wii 2 backwards compatible, it would save them almost no money and it would just piss off the 75 million+ Wii owners and discourage casual gamers from getting the Wii 2. I have zero doubt that the Wii 2 will play Wii games, the only real question is whether or not it will play GameCube games.
What? You would have no insight to the cost or the change in size of including Wii backwards compatibility.
The friggin' PS3 is massive, you would never know in its case. I realize it was only a single, likely inexpensive chip (research shows $30), but the Wii will likely be a different story.
Less than $30, about $27 from what I checked out. It is even less for other systems that have offered BC. Why do you think Wii BC would be different? There is nothing to indicate it would be cost prohibitive. In fact, I would bet anything that it would cost almost nothing for Nintendo and I think it would be the biggest gaming shock of the year if the Wii 2 isn't BC with Wii.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 14, 2010, 06:55:04 PM
Sony HAD to cut price, they were losing hundreds of dollars on every single PS3 sold. Cutting out the PS2 chip saved less than $5, but every dollar help Sony move to making a profit. I don't think Nintendo would be stupid enough to not make the Wii 2 backwards compatible, it would save them almost no money and it would just piss off the 75 million+ Wii owners and discourage casual gamers from getting the Wii 2. I have zero doubt that the Wii 2 will play Wii games, the only real question is whether or not it will play GameCube games.
What? You would have no insight to the cost or the change in size of including Wii backwards compatibility.
The friggin' PS3 is massive, you would never know in its case. I realize it was only a single, likely inexpensive chip (research shows $30), but the Wii will likely be a different story.
Less than $30, about $27 from what I checked out. It is even less for other systems that have offered BC. Why do you think Wii BC would be different? There is nothing to indicate it would be cost prohibitive. In fact, I would bet anything that it would cost almost nothing for Nintendo and I think it would be the biggest gaming shock of the year if the Wii 2 isn't BC with Wii.
Because we're going to have all new GPU architecture this time around (No TEV unit, shaders this time). I would also guess we won't be using a PowerPC processor and hopefully something multi core, but thats the only one I would still call a guess. So your backwards compatibility would have to take in account those two things, as well as size. And of course all the ports for gamecube crap. GameCube support just sounds beyond unlikely.
Also, I got the $30 from 3 words after you got the $27 from the same page. Give me a break.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on August 14, 2010, 07:20:41 PM
How powerful is the wii 2 going to be? I am speculating that it will be atleast as powerful as the 360, but maybe not as powerful as the PS3. If the wii 2 does com out soon, I now that it will make both of those systems appear dated by comparisson.
Let me bring you up to speed:
We know nothing.
You are now up to speed.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 14, 2010, 08:52:06 PM
I was under the impression that Sony was going to create their own version of the virtual console that included PS one, Dreamcast and eventually Playstation 2. They seem to be dragging their feet in bringing back PS2 BC. Although I imagine the PS2 is just as hard to emulate as the Gamecube. Microsoft just recently said something about how the original xbox will not be emulated on the 360.
In the long run it is cheaper to just emulate a console than make electrical components that actually play the games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 14, 2010, 09:13:53 PM
Microsoft just recently said something about how the original xbox will not be emulated on the 360.
I think you are not remembering it correctly. Hundreds of Xbox games are emulated on the Xbox 360 (full list: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm). Due to Microsoft switching graphic chip providers, the Xbox 360 does is not backwards compatible through hardware and requires you to use software emulation to play the games. Microsoft stopped adding more games in November 2007 though, which means some games can not be played on a Xbox 360 (like one of my favorite last gen games TimeSplitters 2). I think you are recalling a exec saying they would not be doing any more emulation.
The PS2 is not that hard to emulate from what i've heard, Sony just doesn't want to do it for various reasons (like when Jack Tretton said they took the Emotion Engine chip out of the PS3 because they wanted to get people to buy PS3 software rather than PS2 software).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 14, 2010, 09:21:51 PM
They'd also much rather sell you the PS3 God of War I and II compilation disc, or the upcoming Sly Cooper collection, than let you buy cheaper, used copies of the original PS2 games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 14, 2010, 09:23:53 PM
Microsoft just recently said something about how the original xbox will not be emulated on the 360.
I think you are not remembering it correctly. Hundreds of Xbox games are emulated on the Xbox 360 (full list: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm)). Due to Microsoft switching graphic chip providers, the Xbox 360 does is not backwards compatible through hardware and requires you to use software emulation to play the games. Microsoft stopped adding more games in November 2007 though, which means some games can not be played on a Xbox 360 (like one of my favorite last gen games TimeSplitters 2). I think you are recalling a exec saying they would not be doing any more emulation.
The PS2 is not that hard to emulate from what i've heard, Sony just doesn't want to do it for various reasons (like when Jack Tretton said they took the Emotion Engine chip out of the PS3 because they wanted to get people to buy PS3 software rather than PS2 software).
The reason why I brought this up is because of the importance of having a virtual console service. This question is something that I think the wii 2 will have to answer. Why is it important? My only answer is that it allows you, the consumer, to bypass some kind of gray market.
For example, there is a buisness that sells games near my home and I went there looking for an expansion pack. The thing ended up costing $15. There is another example, a guy wanted $30 for a used copy of Majora's Mask. I could get that game on virtual console for $10 and in most cases I do not have to worry about the expansion pack.
Any other reasons?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 14, 2010, 11:52:56 PM
for backwards compatability to gamecube, i would leave only one port for the gcn memory cards, allow them to be copied onto sd cards if need be, and only be compatible with wavebirds, no need for receiver though. Virtual receiver.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 15, 2010, 01:43:40 AM
for backwards compatability to gamecube, i would leave only one port for the gcn memory cards, allow them to be copied onto sd cards if need be, and only be compatible with wavebirds, no need for receiver though. Virtual receiver.
If the wii 2 does have a gamecube enabled virtual console, the games will saved in the same way current titles are saved. This would eliminate the need of memory cards.
As for the idea of using the wavebird, I kind of have that same idea. Nintendo could just have four built-in recievers that are manually set inside the wii. For example, my wavebird controller is set to channel one, I go into the wii 2 accessories portion and set reciever port one for channel one. You do the same for the other three controllers. How much would this virtual reciever cost?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 15, 2010, 02:07:24 AM
the need to preserve memory card data would still be there, but the idea would be to move it. Sort of a legacy idea. You can keep your old files, but by the time the system after the next system is out they should just drop the port all together, then again by then they should also drop optical media altogether.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 15, 2010, 02:36:06 AM
the need to preserve memory card data would still be there, but the idea would be to move it. Sort of a legacy idea. You can keep your old files, but by the time the system after the next system is out they should just drop the port all together, then again by then they should also drop optical media altogether.
Nintendo will not allow you to transfer data the way you are describing because of fears of piracy. Also, optical media is here to stay for atleast two more console generations.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 15, 2010, 02:41:46 AM
Not even Nintendo is crazy enough care what you do with what's on your memory cards.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 15, 2010, 03:00:05 PM
If the wii 2 does have any kind of 3D, it will be a definite possibility that i will also have HD graphics because 3D is best supported by HDMI.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 15, 2010, 05:02:18 PM
yeah, im talking about copying memory cards not games. Your essentially copying a game save from an outdated memory card to a generic memory card. I was talking about dropping optical discs in favor of some future solid state technology. No need for stupid spinning moving parts bullshit.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 15, 2010, 05:44:48 PM
2010 to 2019 will be the last decade of optical media. What is going to happen is that the next two console generations will cosist of desensitizing people about the disc free down loading of games. Such services as virtual console, wiiware, PSN and xbox live are the future, but it is still too soon for disc free consoles. The PSP Go was a good example of this situation.
I imagine the Wii 3(?), Playstation 5 and the Xbox 1440(?) will not use optical media at all and will be pure down load only. Hundreds of Terabytes of storage will be incredibly cheap by then and I expect these consoles to emerge by 2021.
As for copying memory cards, Perm, I misunderstood what you were saying. I have multiple copies of Twilight Princess for back up. What I was saying was that if the wii 2 does have Gamecube on virtual console, there will be no gamecube ports on the console and the games will be saved internally like the other systems.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: UncleBob on August 15, 2010, 05:49:19 PM
Boo built-in Virtual WaveBird receivers...
A.) WaveBirds are already pretty pricey to find in good condition. B.) What about my bongos and dance mats? C.) And my GBA Link cables?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 15, 2010, 05:58:46 PM
A.) WaveBirds are already pretty pricey to find in good condition. B.) What about my bongos and dance mats? C.) And my GBA Link cables?
I have three already. I actually bought two wave birds at a flea market for $5 each, what a steal?
Your points are good and they do raise a considerable problem. I was thinking more about gamecube games that just use the one controller, but I would hate for other to miss out on the good stuff too.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 15, 2010, 08:16:40 PM
yeah, you could still keep your old wavebird's reciever...you just wouldn't have to plug it in...Bongo's, dance mats, and gba link cables, people shouldn't be so damn wasteful, keep your wii or gamecube.
Actually, Unclebob coming from you that is a surprising question considering I'm guessing your like me and plan on keeping all your hoarded video game stuffs Foooooooooooooooorever.
if people missed out on that stuff let them, they can't be special like us. There was a window. Unless they're like 5 years old, then just let it be...let it be.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 16, 2010, 12:26:07 AM
I was always suggesting a wireless GC port adapter for those that need it. It could have 4 controller ports and 2 memory card slots and be sold separately.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 16, 2010, 12:31:04 AM
I was always suggesting a wireless GC port adapter for those that need it. It could have 4 controller ports and 2 memory card slots and be sold separately.
The adapter could plug into the controller port of the wii 2 controller and become wireless. Would this cost too much money to operate.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BeautifulShy on August 16, 2010, 12:31:55 AM
2010 to 2019 will be the last decade of optical media. What is going to happen is that the next two console generations will cosist of desensitizing people about the disc free down loading of games. Such services as virtual console, wiiware, PSN and xbox live are the future, but it is still too soon for disc free consoles. The PSP Go was a good example of this situation.
I imagine the Wii 3(?), Playstation 5 and the Xbox 1440(?) will not use optical media at all and will be pure down load only. Hundreds of Terabytes of storage will be incredibly cheap by then and I expect these consoles to emerge by 2021.
As for copying memory cards, Perm, I misunderstood what you were saying. I have multiple copies of Twilight Princess for back up. What I was saying was that if the wii 2 does have Gamecube on virtual console, there will be no gamecube ports on the console and the games will be saved internally like the other systems.
How do you know this? Are you from the future?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 16, 2010, 12:33:11 AM
2010 to 2019 will be the last decade of optical media. What is going to happen is that the next two console generations will cosist of desensitizing people about the disc free down loading of games. Such services as virtual console, wiiware, PSN and xbox live are the future, but it is still too soon for disc free consoles. The PSP Go was a good example of this situation.
I imagine the Wii 3(?), Playstation 5 and the Xbox 1440(?) will not use optical media at all and will be pure down load only. Hundreds of Terabytes of storage will be incredibly cheap by then and I expect these consoles to emerge by 2021.
As for copying memory cards, Perm, I misunderstood what you were saying. I have multiple copies of Twilight Princess for back up. What I was saying was that if the wii 2 does have Gamecube on virtual console, there will be no gamecube ports on the console and the games will be saved internally like the other systems.
How do you know this? Are you from the future?
Yes.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: UncleBob on August 16, 2010, 01:07:35 AM
I was always suggesting a wireless GC port adapter for those that need it. It could have 4 controller ports and 2 memory card slots and be sold separately.
Something like this *could* work. I'd suggest making it plug in to an available USB port though... it'd be cheaper that way.
I highly doubt there'd be any sort of demand for such an item though.
yeah, you could still keep your old wavebird's reciever...you just wouldn't have to plug it in...Bongo's, dance mats, and gba link cables, people shouldn't be so damn wasteful, keep your wii or gamecube.
Actually, Unclebob coming from you that is a surprising question considering I'm guessing your like me and plan on keeping all your hoarded video game stuffs Foooooooooooooooorever.
if people missed out on that stuff let them, they can't be special like us. There was a window. Unless they're like 5 years old, then just let it be...let it be.
Oh, I have no intentions of getting rid of any of my four GameCubes or my Panasonic Q or my Wii (or my eventual multiple Wiis that I'm sure I'll get...). I was just throwing that out there.. ;)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 16, 2010, 04:39:49 PM
imagine a wavebird with a built in memory card port and also a built in controller port, bongo problems solved...not gba link cable though, cus that would be slow.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 17, 2010, 07:43:07 AM
The kind of people who would care about being compatible with the bongos or the GBA link cable probably already have multiple ways to play the games that use them.
I think the simplest and most likely way GC controls would be done if they didn't want to put the ports on there would be to let people use the Wii 2 equivalent of the Classic Controller.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 18, 2010, 02:32:15 AM
The wii 2 should be powerful enough to use the unreal engine 3.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on August 18, 2010, 02:39:42 AM
How could you use something that's unreal? It's like a paradox, man
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 18, 2010, 09:26:32 AM
The wii 2 should be powerful enough to use the unreal engine 3.
I don't think that Nintendo is stupid enough to make the Wii 2 less powerful than the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, so I have no doubt it will be able to use Unreal Engine 3.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 19, 2010, 03:30:20 PM
With high definition graphics and the unreal engine 3 compatibility, there is no excuse as to why third party developers can not develop games for the wii 2 and have them be a success.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 19, 2010, 03:40:15 PM
With high definition graphics and the unreal engine 3 compatibility, there is no excuse as to why third party developers can not develop games for the wii 2 and have them be a success.
We'll also have to see what Nintendo does with the Wii 2 controller. Beyond just the technical limitations of the Wii, a lot of 3rd parties were also turned off by just how little you could do with the Wiimote on its own because of the limited buttons, odd placement of the buttons, and limited capability of the Wii's motion control (i.e. waggle). While no doubt the latter will be dealt with in Wii 2, I am concerned about those first 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 19, 2010, 03:47:46 PM
With high definition graphics and the unreal engine 3 compatibility, there is no excuse as to why third party developers can not develop games for the wii 2 and have them be a success.
We'll also have to see what Nintendo does with the Wii 2 controller. Beyond just the technical limitations of the Wii, a lot of 3rd parties were also turned off by just how little you could do with the Wiimote on its own because of the limited buttons, odd placement of the buttons, and limited capability of the Wii's motion control (i.e. waggle). While no doubt the latter will be dealt with in Wii 2, I am concerned about those first 2.
That's why I fully believe they're going to construct some sort of controller/remote combo -- a "breakaway" controller, if you will. It's the only thing that sounds logical to me while completing both sides of the fence -- traditional control and motion control.
A new "enhanced" remote in the style of the Wii remote with a new physical look isn't going to cut it. That will immediately turn off traditional gamers and possibly shun 3rd parties again. Nintendo doesn't want to make that mistake twice.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 19, 2010, 03:51:48 PM
Assuming they're not going to radically change the controller again, all they'd really need to do is add another couple face buttons to the remote.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 19, 2010, 03:55:30 PM
But see, I WANT them to. That's the thing I love about Nintendo consoles...because every generation we get a NEW controller design. Something new to play with, to come to terms with, and to experience. I think that makes each gen's games so much fun to play.
If all I get is a new enhanced Wii remote next-gen, I'm gonna get super bored REAL fast. I don't want that. I want something new. Something that feels different.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 19, 2010, 04:00:11 PM
The SNES controller wasn't radically different from the NES pad, and the GameCube controller wasn't radically different from the N64 controller. In each case Nintendo refined their previous design into something better, but still very similar, and I expect them to do the same with their next console.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 19, 2010, 04:04:32 PM
But see, I WANT them to. That's the thing I love about Nintendo consoles...because every generation we get a NEW controller design. Something new to play with, to come to terms with, and to experience. I think that makes each gen's games so much fun to play.
If all I get is a new enhanced Wii remote next-gen, I'm gonna get super bored REAL fast. I don't want that. I want something new. Something that feels different.
I don't need the headache of learning how to use a new controller again. I was perfectly fine with the Dualshock 2 going into the SIXAXIS/Dualshock 3. I knew what the buttons were and where they were. So long as Nintendo fixes the layout problem of the Wiimote (which they probably won't do since it would ruin the controller as a quasi-NES controller, and we all know how much in love they are with that), I'll be content with the Wiimote's design again with Wii 2. Just support both the traditional CC Pro-style controller and wacky Motion Controllers this time, Nintendo.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 19, 2010, 04:12:27 PM
If they add 2 or 3 face buttons to the remote, you could do traditional controls without motion tacked on and still be able to do NES style controls. Do that, build Motion+ into it, maybe stick a gyroscope into the nunchuk, and you've got a pretty good refinement.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 19, 2010, 04:22:44 PM
Quote
With high definition graphics and the unreal engine 3 compatibility, there is no excuse as to why third party developers can not develop games for the wii 2 and have them be a success.
I think that will make the biggest difference. Devs want something they're familiar with. Nintendo hyped up the Wii as being easy to develop for because it was built on the same architecture as the Gamecube. There is a big problem with that - hardly anyone is familiar with the Gamecube architecture because the Gamecube had weak third party support. The only developer for which the Wii would immediately be easy to work with would be Nintendo themselves. When you have a negative reputation for only developing hardware for your needs alone this is pretty much the ideal to way to confirm this reputation. Hell claiming it is easy to develop for is like a passive-agressive "**** you". Claiming you're developer friendly when no developers think you are just makes you look worse.
I think the controller has issues but I don't think that will make or break things on its own. I think the combination of weaker hardware and a weird controller was more the problem. It was too many incompatibilities. Third parties are willing to make games for both the PC and HD consoles despite obvious differences in control options. I think the greater danger of having a controller that is too weird is getting the worst version of multiplatform games but if the hardware is easy to port to and work with then I think they'll work with the controller unless Nintendo has something just completely batshit insane.
The real key is to find out what developers actually want. Not what Retro or IS want or what the few devs that are working with the Wii want but what Capcom and Square Enix want. What companies like Rockstar, who don't really work with Nintendo much, want. What do western devs that are used to working with PCs want? There are devs that just stay away from the Wii and that is who Nintendo needs to approach. What sort of hardware would convince you to make games on our system? If Nintendo will make a mistake next gen the most likely one wil be designing the system for the converted.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 19, 2010, 04:29:32 PM
Everything we've seen so far indicates that Nintendo designed the 3DS with third parties in mind, which seems like a pretty good sign that they'll do the same with their next console.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 19, 2010, 05:30:30 PM
Watch the 3DS closely and if the third parties develop high end franchise with large production value then the wii 2 will get all kinds of good attention from third parties.
For the exception of a few major first party titles on the PS360, I would like to see a new era where all the major third party developers have their major franchises as exclusives for the wii 2.
If the internet connectivity is good enough, I would love to see Bioware create titles for the wii 2. Maybe Sonic Chronicles 2 and then something like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, but for the wii 2.
I have no problem with the wiimote, but I would like for the wiimote for the wii 2 to encorporate better technology. For example, built in motion plus, blue tooth connectivity, and better battery power.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 19, 2010, 06:17:33 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo's next system ends up being very similar to the PS3 tech wise in order to make it very easy for the Japanese developers to come on board. Since we all know Nintendo's third party relationships are usually strongest with the Japanese developers, I'd imagine they'll want to make it easiest for the Japanese parties to come on board.
I imagine that one of the purposes of the 3DS is to build stronger relationships with third parties so that Nintendo can then convince third parties not to make a huge investment with Microsoft and Sony's new systems like they did with the PS3/360 years before the Wii even came out. This way if Microsoft and Sony's new systems end up being extremely expensive to develop for like the PS3/360 were in there early years, Nintendo should be able to prevent a lot of the Japanese companies from giving them major support by allowing them to continue using their PS3 development tools to easily keep making games for the Wii's successor.
Western developers on the other hand will be a much trickier sell though since they always want the latest and most powerful engines. This is why I see next gens third party software becoming divided with Western developers giving major support to the 360/PS3 successors, while the Japanese developers giving major support to the Wii's successor.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 19, 2010, 06:23:14 PM
Quote
For the exception of a few major first party titles on the PS360, I would like to see a new era where all the major third party developers have their major franchises as exclusives for the wii 2.
This I don't see happening because the trend these days seems to be multiplatform development. When the Wii was first getting big it seemed like it would be a lock to get exclusives because it was so different that a Wii game could not be recreated on another system. Well the Wii has many many exclusives but most of them suck. The uniqueness became a liability. Third parties want their games to be on as many platforms as possible.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 20, 2010, 02:27:08 AM
I don't want to have to relearn the controller every time a new system comes out. A controller is just a means of playing games, it doesn't need to drastically change with each system. Besides, I think the more "casual" audience would be more likely to buy the new system if the controller were one with which they are already familiar.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kairon on August 20, 2010, 12:20:37 PM
Besides, I think the more "casual" audience would be more likely to buy the new system if the controller were one with which they are already familiar.
Well, the Wii Remote is like an NES controller turned on its side, so maybe you're onto something. &P
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 20, 2010, 07:03:00 PM
Do you really think the 70 million+ Wii owners had an NES?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 20, 2010, 08:02:46 PM
It's funny the NES gets all this credit for being accessible and such and yet as a kid I never met one adult who played it. All the people of my parent's generation that I know who play with the Wii, were the same parents telling my friends and I that videogames will rot your brain. No one's parents that I knew ever playing Nintendo except for the occasional "cool" dad or uncle who would join in on a two player game.
And the people that were playing the NES at the time as kids? I don't know any that left gaming and then came back because of the Wii. They either have played games the whole time or they're still not playing anymore. My brother is a lapsed gamers, having lost interest once things went 3D. Wii Fit and Wii Sports don't get in interested they turn him off because they seem like wimpy creampuff games. It takes old school arcade style games with lots of action and challenge to get him to play new stuff.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 20, 2010, 08:10:41 PM
For the exception of a few major first party titles on the PS360, I would like to see a new era where all the major third party developers have their major franchises as exclusives for the wii 2.
Sentiments like this disgust me, and it sickens me even more to think I once was like this. The different platforms are governed by 3 different companies with 3 very different philosophies about games and game design, and all 3 contribute to a healthy industry in their own ways. IMO, little good comes of an entire industry dominated by a particular philosophy. With this next generation, I hope that the 1st party games are the only ones that are exclusive. Let the 3rd parties develop on whatever they please, and let the fans pick the experience they want to play. If they want the experimental motion control version of the game, they can get the version on the Nintendo platform; if they want the version with a heavy online and community emphasis, they can get the version on the Microsoft platform; and if they want the version with maybe that extra technical nudge, they can get the version on the Sony platform. Over the past few years as I've slowly experienced gaming outside of the Nintendo bubble, I've come to appreciate what each console brings to the table and the awesome games they've all had. Next time around, let everyone have the opportunity to play the awesome games and let the fans, rather than backroom deals and contracts, decide where they can enjoy it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 20, 2010, 08:21:48 PM
For the exception of a few major first party titles on the PS360, I would like to see a new era where all the major third party developers have their major franchises as exclusives for the wii 2.
Sentiments like this disgust me, and it sickens me even more to think I once was like this. The different platforms are governed by 3 different companies with 3 very different philosophies about games and game design, and all 3 contribute to a healthy industry in their own ways. IMO, little good comes of an entire industry dominated by a particular philosophy. With this next generation, I hope that the 1st party games are the only ones that are exclusive. Let the 3rd parties develop on whatever they please, and let the fans pick the experience they want to play. If they want the experimental motion control version of the game, they can get the version on the Nintendo platform; if they want the version with a heavy online and community emphasis, they can get the version on the Microsoft platform; and if they want the version with maybe that extra technical nudge, they can get the version on the Sony platform. Over the past few years as I've slowly experienced gaming outside of the Nintendo bubble, I've come to appreciate what each console brings to the table and the awesome games they've all had. Next time around, let everyone have the opportunity to play the awesome games and let the fans, rather than backroom deals and contracts, decide where they can enjoy it.
If the three consoles next generation are reasonably comparable in tech, this is exactly what will happen. HD development is too expensive to do otherwise, unless there are moneyhats involved.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 20, 2010, 08:29:21 PM
Mostly for financial reasons, I wish that videogames were more like movies and music, in that there were only one universal player. Then, people wouldn't have to make decisions about which system to buy, or which version of a game they should get, as every videogame out there would work in their player. This would also be beneficial to game companies too, as they wouldn't have to spend resources porting a game to two or three platforms, or research the demographic of each system, so they could focus on simply creating games. There could still be systems with special features as well, such as an expensive model that offered things like HD and online components, and a more basic model that just had the essentials. It would be similar to how some VCRs had special features like recording abilities, enhanced sound capabilities, slow/stop motion, etc.
Realistically I know this will never happen, for the exact reason stated: the three current major game companies are all striving toward different goals.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on August 21, 2010, 05:13:45 PM
Mostly for financial reasons, I wish that videogames were more like movies and music, in that there were only one universal player. Then, people wouldn't have to make decisions about which system to buy, or which version of a game they should get, as every videogame out there would work in their player. This would also be beneficial to game companies too, as they wouldn't have to spend resources porting a game to two or three platforms, or research the demographic of each system, so they could focus on simply creating games. There could still be systems with special features as well, such as an expensive model that offered things like HD and online components, and a more basic model that just had the essentials. It would be similar to how some VCRs had special features like recording abilities, enhanced sound capabilities, slow/stop motion, etc.
Realistically I know this will never happen, for the exact reason stated: the three current major game companies are all striving toward different goals.
I don't buy that the three major game companies are striving for different goals. They are trying to protect their brands, but they are all striving for the same goal $$$$. Nintendo has had a hard time breaking into the teen-young adult teen market. But they certainly have tried by changing Metroid into a FPS and bringing about Eternal Darkness, etc, but they haven't been successful yet. And Sony will love if there core market gobels up the move, but it is definately a move to infringe into Nintendo's core market of non-traditional gamers. They aren't going to come out and say it (for fear of their core) but they want a little grandma love too, because Grandma has $$$$.
I also think that at some point in our lives we will see a universal console. Heck with internet, stronger processors, SD slots, and USB ports, someone smarter than me could probably turn a normal TV into a game machine. Interactive commercials? The TV producers would love it. So would developers. You can say Nintendo is smarter than developers because they make more money but largely the current console cycles suck for developers. They have to pour all this money into developing games and engines when a new console releases and they generally see very few sales because it takes 2-3 years for a market to mature (gain enough participants). Then by the time they have developed efficiencies and understand the market, it's time to take their lumps again on a new cycle. It's long been rumored that EA would try to splash into the world with a universal console. Of course the big three would hate this because their middle man days would be over, but as more consumers moved over Nintendo would be forced to develop for the Universal Console or go nitcher than the N64 days.
More likely what I feel really could really happen is that article a while back on Gamespot. You'd essentially have a box (with minimal processing power for the controller and a wireless or wired internet connection). The games you owned would be on a server and the server would provide all the in game processing power necessary to play the games. The technology is there now, my work is actually already making the move to net based pcs (i.e. no local memory/hard drive/or processing). The things holding back this tech now are 1. Broadband to support steaming 1080p isn't sufficiently available across the U.S. 2. Someone would have to manage the vault of computers and possibly dole out subscription fees. 3. Consumers might not be ready for this jump yet.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on August 21, 2010, 05:27:31 PM
More likely what I feel really could really happen is that article a while back on Gamespot. You'd essentially have a box (with minimal processing power for the controller and a wireless or wired internet connection). The games you owned would be on a server and the server would provide all the in game processing power necessary to play the games. The technology is there now, my work is actually already making the move to net based pcs (i.e. no local memory/hard drive/or processing). The things holding back this tech now are 1. Broadband to support steaming 1080p isn't sufficiently available across the U.S. 2. Someone would have to manage the vault of computers and possibly dole out subscription fees. 3. Consumers might not be ready for this jump yet.
Yeah, I'm definitely in that 3rd camp there: I'm a strong proponent of actually owning my purchased property, and I don't want my games going all digital as one big monster machine any time soon. Besides, I like the specialization of the 3 consoles right now, and I think having every game on the same console would drown out exposure for anything other than the AAA titles (since they would all be collected in one place).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 21, 2010, 08:42:19 PM
I don't buy that the three major game companies are striving for different goals. They are trying to protect their brands, but they are all striving for the same goal $$$$.
Well obviously the main goal of any company is to make a profit. But the three companies strive towards that in extremely different ways, and they all want to control the market (especially Sony). And actually, sometimes I wonder if they care more about marketshare than profits; why are Sony and Microsoft continuing despite that they've lost billions?
Also, I, too, fear we're headed toward an all-digital future, as much as I hope the two can co-exist. As someone who likes to replay games, I don't like the idea of renting them for an indefinite period of time, where they will disappear forever once they are no longer offered by the service provider.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 21, 2010, 08:56:18 PM
Microsoft made it no secret that they just wanted to stop Sony from taking over the living room of the average consumer. Microsoft started profiting from Xbox 360 several years ago, Sony only started profiting on the PS3 a few months ago.
I do not think we should ever have digital distribution be the main method of delivery. Can all or most physical releases also be available as a download? Sure, but it should not be the only or primary way of publishing games.
I have my doubts it will happen anytime soon, but the console makers should look at DVD as a good example. Creating a industry governing body that anybody involved with video games can join (developers, publishers, chip makers, peripheral makers like Mad Catz and Logitech, etc.) who will make up the standards for the format, then let any company who wants to can make a system that follows those specs. More high end models might have more features, but every system would be able to play any game released for it. This would help keep down costs by not having to develop for multiple systems and would provide potentially more money since everybody would have access to the games. It would also potentially provide gamers with more game choices than ever before.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 21, 2010, 10:48:44 PM
Way too lazy to read all of this, but if you have the Homebrew Channel on your Wii, then you need to play the head tracking demo, then you can see how glasses-free 3D may be done. It's a simple demo, but it's absolutely incredible to see.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 22, 2010, 01:35:21 PM
How does the the vitality sensor play into the wii 2? I think Nintendo will probably push it back to the time of the wii 2 so that it have one more gimmick.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 22, 2010, 01:40:23 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we never heard from the Vitality Sensor again.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on August 22, 2010, 04:57:34 PM
The Vitality Sensor IS Wii 2!!! Megat0n! :Q
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 22, 2010, 08:49:18 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we never heard from the Vitality Sensor again.
Agreed. I just don't see that thing being marketable at all. Even if Nintendo says they're going to show it off at another place and time that's quieter or more calm. Gamers just don't care... and I feel that it's already too late into the Wii's lifetime to release something for casuals to gobble up.
Just bring on the new console already.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 22, 2010, 09:23:45 PM
Why? The current system is still selling great (and is still at $200) and shows no sign of slowing down. There is no reason or incentive for Nintendo to release a new system anytime soon.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: balzzzy on August 22, 2010, 09:59:29 PM
Why? The current system is still selling great (and is still at $200) and shows no sign of slowing down. There is no reason or incentive for Nintendo to release a new system anytime soon.
TJ is exactly right. With the 3DS approaching release that will be the system to hold you over until the Wii 2 is released.
Nintendo's R & D budget reportedly tripled since the launch of the Wii in 2006, suggesting that a new console could be in an advanced stage of pre-production. With the Wii still enjoying phenomenal success, it would be unlikely that Nintendo would want to launch the Wii 2 anytime soon. Let's not forget Nintendo's launch history with delays factored in either.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 22, 2010, 10:52:50 PM
Why? The current system is still selling great (and is still at $200) and shows no sign of slowing down. There is no reason or incentive for Nintendo to release a new system anytime soon.
TJ is exactly right. With the 3DS approaching release that will be the system to hold you over until the Wii 2 is released.
Nintendo's R & D budget reportedly tripled since the launch of the Wii in 2006, suggesting that a new console could be in an advanced stage of pre-production. With the Wii still enjoying phenomenal success, it would be unlikely that Nintendo would want to launch the Wii 2 anytime soon. Let's not forget Nintendo's launch history with delays factored in either.
Oh, hah... I didn't mean bring out the next console right now. I meant by the end of next year. I just hope the Vitality Sensor doesn't take precedence over a new console possibly getting released by the end of next year -- causing it to get pushed back.
And yeah, the 3DS will definitely tide me over until the next console's release. No prob there.
Why? The current system is still selling great (and is still at $200) and shows no sign of slowing down. There is no reason or incentive for Nintendo to release a new system anytime soon.
Nintendo can still sell a crapton of Wiis even after a new console launches. Sony's PS2 is proof of that. Don't even tell me that you can only have ONE console out on the shelf... I'm not gonna believe that for one second. Casuals will continue to eat up the Wii a couple of years after the release of a new console -- especially if it's geared a little more back at the traditional crowd.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 23, 2010, 12:02:22 AM
Why? The current system is still selling great (and is still at $200) and shows no sign of slowing down. There is no reason or incentive for Nintendo to release a new system anytime soon.
TJ is exactly right. With the 3DS approaching release that will be the system to hold you over until the Wii 2 is released.
Nintendo's R & D budget reportedly tripled since the launch of the Wii in 2006, suggesting that a new console could be in an advanced stage of pre-production. With the Wii still enjoying phenomenal success, it would be unlikely that Nintendo would want to launch the Wii 2 anytime soon. Let's not forget Nintendo's launch history with delays factored in either.
Oh, hah... I didn't mean bring out the next console right now. I meant by the end of next year. I just hope the Vitality Sensor doesn't take precedence over a new console possibly getting released by the end of next year -- causing it to get pushed back.
And yeah, the 3DS will definitely tide me over until the next console's release. No prob there.
Why? The current system is still selling great (and is still at $200) and shows no sign of slowing down. There is no reason or incentive for Nintendo to release a new system anytime soon.
Nintendo can still sell a crapton of Wiis even after a new console launches. Sony's PS2 is proof of that. Don't even tell me that you can only have ONE console out on the shelf... I'm not gonna believe that for one second. Casuals will continue to eat up the Wii a couple of years after the release of a new console -- especially if it's geared a little more back at the traditional crowd.
If the wii 2 i revealed while the wii is going strong, sales and interested in the wii will plummet and the wii 2 will be the new console of interest. The PS2 sold well because no one could afford a PS3 at the time and Nintendo will make the wii 2 affordable so that people can buy it up quickly.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 23, 2010, 12:12:59 AM
Why? The current system is still selling great (and is still at $200) and shows no sign of slowing down. There is no reason or incentive for Nintendo to release a new system anytime soon.
TJ is exactly right. With the 3DS approaching release that will be the system to hold you over until the Wii 2 is released.
Nintendo's R & D budget reportedly tripled since the launch of the Wii in 2006, suggesting that a new console could be in an advanced stage of pre-production. With the Wii still enjoying phenomenal success, it would be unlikely that Nintendo would want to launch the Wii 2 anytime soon. Let's not forget Nintendo's launch history with delays factored in either.
Oh, hah... I didn't mean bring out the next console right now. I meant by the end of next year. I just hope the Vitality Sensor doesn't take precedence over a new console possibly getting released by the end of next year -- causing it to get pushed back.
And yeah, the 3DS will definitely tide me over until the next console's release. No prob there.
Why? The current system is still selling great (and is still at $200) and shows no sign of slowing down. There is no reason or incentive for Nintendo to release a new system anytime soon.
Nintendo can still sell a crapton of Wiis even after a new console launches. Sony's PS2 is proof of that. Don't even tell me that you can only have ONE console out on the shelf... I'm not gonna believe that for one second. Casuals will continue to eat up the Wii a couple of years after the release of a new console -- especially if it's geared a little more back at the traditional crowd.
If the wii 2 i revealed while the wii is going strong, sales and interested in the wii will plummet and the wii 2 will be the new console of interest. The PS2 sold well because no one could afford a PS3 at the time and Nintendo will make the wii 2 affordable so that people can buy it up quickly.
Not for casuals, Kytim. Not for casuals. They don't keep up with the video game industry, and therefore, wouldn't know that a new home console is being planned for release. The Wii would continue to sell the same ridiculous numbers that it's always been selling -- because grandmas, grandpas, uncles, aunts, and anyone else that falls in that demographic will keep buying it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 23, 2010, 02:28:52 AM
Popular systems will continue to sell even once the next system is released, regardless of demographic, for several reasons. For one, they're a lot less expensive than the new systems, so budget-conscious consumers would probably choose them over the new one. Also, since it has a huge library of games, many of which could be obtained cheaper than a new system, people who had a different system may buy it. The PS2 isn't the only system which continued to sell for a few years after its successor was released; there was also the PS1, SNES, and NES. In fact, in Japan, the NES/Famicom was in production until 2003. The only reason that the Nintendo 64 and GameCube were stopped when their respective successors were released is because they were selling relatively poorly at the time.
If Nintendo's five-year cycle is to be kept, then the next system would have to launch Holiday 2011. But I don't think that'll happen, and not only because I expect the 3DS to launch next year, and Nintendo will want it to have at least one holiday on its own before they launch their next home system. Nintendo releases their new system when they have a reason to: They needed the SNES to compete with the Genesis, they needed the N64 to keep up with the PlayStation and Saturn, etc. There are currently no known plans for Sony or Microsoft to release a new system in the near future. The NES/Famicom (Nintendo's most successful home system before Wii) went for eight years in Japan before it was succeeded, and we might see an eight-year cycle for the Wii as well.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 23, 2010, 04:22:01 AM
unless they see 360+natal and ps3+move as the competing new systems. Once every dumb person thinks those 2 companies invented motion control and are impressed with the graphics of the 2nd wave move/natal games, than its time for a visual upgrade. Competition isn't about the new things that is out anymore, it is about what sells.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 23, 2010, 01:41:25 PM
I think the Wii will look like very out-of-date tech when the 3DS arrives and it is in Nintendo's best interest to replace it soon after. Yeah core gamers have known since day one that the Wii is not exactly cutting edge technology. But we're familiar with gaming as a whole. We know about the PS3 and Xbox 360 and we can see clearly that the Wii graphics aren't even close.
But the non-gamer might not really pay attention to any of this. They're in this little bubble where only the DS and Wii exists. But the 3DS is a Nintendo product so it will fly in on their radar. And if they buy it they'll notice that this tiny little handheld has better looking games then the Wii. Suddenly the Wii is going to look pretty weak and old. Who the hell has a portable with better graphics than their home system? I think the 3DS will make the Wii look like a joke and Nintendo will have to replace it.
If Move or Natal SOMEHOW manage to attract any attention other than pointing and laughing then that will also make the Wii look weak (or "Wiik" lol). In theory those eliminate any unique feature the Wii has. The PS3 and Xbox 360 can become the same thing plus MORE. But I think they'll be a complete disaster. But then I thought the Wii itself would be a complete disaster. I don't really understand non-gamer tastes.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2010, 02:02:35 PM
I don't think the new audience is as ignorant as you think it is. I think most of them are aware of the other consoles and that they have better graphics, but that's just not what they care about. That's why Move seems to me like it has no chance of succeeding: it's the same thing as the Wii, with no software to set it apart. Kinect at least has the potential for new ideas, but I haven't seen anything from it so far that looks like it could fulfill that potential.
These new players are what a lot of us claim and aspire to be: they don't care about graphics; they don't care about industry politics; all they care about is fun. This is why Nintendo's next console can't just be a Wii with current tech specs. It needs to do something new, and have a piece of software that illustrates it well, to get these people to buy it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 23, 2010, 07:00:18 PM
These new players are what a lot of us claim and aspire to be: they don't care about graphics; they don't care about industry politics; all they care about is fun.
How I wish for those days again! Things were so much simpler... Curse you, NWR!
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 23, 2010, 07:33:45 PM
Quote
How I wish for those days again! Things were so much simpler... Curse you, NWR!
I can't think of a time where graphics and industry politics were not part of my videogame interest. As a kid it was all Nintendo vs. Sega and any game with exceptional graphics got extra attention regardless of whether it was good or not. If anything as an adult these things are less important to me since they're just something to talk about on the internet. As a kid this stuff carried a very inflated life or death importance.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on August 23, 2010, 10:20:57 PM
How I wish for those days again! Things were so much simpler... Curse you, NWR!
I can't think of a time where graphics and industry politics were not part of my videogame interest. As a kid it was all Nintendo vs. Sega and any game with exceptional graphics got extra attention regardless of whether it was good or not. If anything as an adult these things are less important to me since they're just something to talk about on the internet. As a kid this stuff carried a very inflated life or death importance.
Oh, absolutely. I can't tell you how many times arguments would start on the playground about who's game system was better, and who had the better graphics... too many to count. Graphics and politics were just as profound then as they are now.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on August 23, 2010, 10:52:06 PM
I didn't have such an experience. A lot of kids I knew owned both a Genesis and SNES (and later both an N64 and PlayStation), and the ones who had just one, were content playing the other systems when they visited friends. No one bothered to compare the systems or argue which was better because they had access to both.
I never discussed games in any sort of critique until I joined here. I still don't have those kinds of conversations outside of the Internet.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on August 24, 2010, 04:20:32 AM
Middle school was filled with console arguments. My friend and I even wrote essays debating about it for English class.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sundoulos on August 24, 2010, 08:54:36 AM
I didn't have such an experience. A lot of kids I knew owned both a Genesis and SNES (and later both an N64 and PlayStation), and the ones who had just one, were content playing the other systems when they visited friends. No one bothered to compare the systems or argue which was better because they had access to both.
I never discussed games in any sort of critique until I joined here. I still don't have those kinds of conversations outside of the Internet.
I still have those conversations pretty often, but I live in a town that has a pretty high concentration of engineers and science geeks. We're all nerds.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 25, 2010, 08:39:46 PM
iv talked to people who were in Junior High School when both snes and genesis werew both coming out, and apparently there were fanboyisms even then. However, i remember being very young and each new system to me was just something new to play. The idea of a console war is foreign to young kids really. Maybe, less so nowadays. Some kids are spoiled little pricks and others are just clueless as to what is going on throughout a week.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: balzzzy on August 25, 2010, 08:58:23 PM
Kinect at least has the potential for new ideas, but I haven't seen anything from it so far that looks like it could fulfill that potential.
Not to stray off topic but the new Michael Jackson game developed by Ubisoft claims to put you in his shoes per se using Kinect. Being into hip hop dance as I am I really am interested to see this thing in action. The choreographer for the game is a friend of mine and he explained quite a bit. It's just one example but a good one. It might even counter the Balance board with the fitness and yoga targeted audience. But we'll see how Nintendo counters this with the next console or peripheral. And oh how they love their peripherals lol.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 30, 2010, 09:50:36 PM
If the wii 2 is going to include any kind of multimedia functions such as a music player, I have a good idea of how to use it and make it unique. Basically have a music player where I create the miis of my favorite band, assign certain songs to them and then play the music and have some kind of rock concert going on inside my wii 2.
For example, I like the band Godsmack, so I would create the miis of the band such as Sully Erna, the lead singer, and then assign a song like "I Stand Alone" to the band and then play the song. The same would go for any other bands such as Korn or Disturbed.
There would also be sound amplifiers and what ever applications needed to alter the sound of the songs in a similar fashion to what the DSi music player does with soundtracks.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on August 30, 2010, 11:43:14 PM
there is a music player in the wii photo channel so....
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BwrJim! on August 31, 2010, 12:19:55 AM
just put the glasses over the tv. I slip cover so to speak.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on September 01, 2010, 07:40:42 PM
I had that same idea, actually. It wouldn't be too dissimilar to the Sensor Bar in use now. The only issue with it, is that there are so many different sizes and shapes of televisions. How could they create one that fits all?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 01, 2010, 07:56:21 PM
just put the glasses over the tv. I slip cover so to speak.
I'll freely admit that I don't understand this technology all that well, but I'm pretty sure I understand it enough to know that wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BwrJim! on September 01, 2010, 07:58:18 PM
i could see the wii two, that enhances the wiimotes of course, the sensor bar will take the camera system out of the 3ds using the two to help place the player for on target space and other uses, with the increase of power needed, we will see 360 like graphic quality (as it will be dirt cheap at that point) and thats about it. With the two camera system built into the sensor bar, we could have so many different game innovations that it would be ridiculous.
oh darn-it, did i get back on topic?
edit to the above..
actually it would and it has been shown off in early form in conferences. (looking for a link for ya) but by the time were talking, it should be able to work. actually, it would almost be like the 3ds screens just enlarged.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on September 01, 2010, 08:07:26 PM
A camera could allow nongamers to have their Miis designed with just the click of a button instead of trudging through fancy menus and options.
Another Drool Ocean success.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on September 04, 2010, 02:44:01 AM
cameras are pretty cheap now. Nintendo has been wanting to mess with cameras since the n64 days. I doubt however Nintendo will have like a super ridiculously expensive camera like the competitors. Just some basal version ofr the technology thats dirt cheap.
so which resolution do you think it'll be if it is there?
320x240
or
640x480
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on September 04, 2010, 01:08:42 PM
I applied for a job at Infendo to review games for them and I have to take a test so that the person running that site can evaluate my writing style and determine my elegibility for the job. I have to write one topic pertaining to video games. My topic was about a what if scenario where the wii 2 was released and what current HD third party console games ahould be ported over to the wii 2. I did a top list, but I avoided the "R" word at all costs.
Games That Should Be Ported to the Wii Two:
1. Resident Evil 5 2. Grand Theft Auto 4 3. Red Dead Redemption 4. Borderlands 5. Brutal Legend 6. Mass Effect 7. Mass Effect 2 8. Dragon Age: Origins 9. Fallout 3 10. Bioshock 11. Bioshock 2 12. Dead Space 13. Final Fantasy 13 14. Assassin’s Creed 1 and 2
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 05, 2010, 10:19:20 AM
NO.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on September 05, 2010, 11:12:50 AM
I agree. The Wii's successor should be focused on new games, not porting over old ones. Besides, if you wanted any of the games on that list, by the time the Wii 2 ports released you would likely already own their original incarnations.
And "Resident Evil 5 Wii" already exists: it's the Move patch that's releasing next month.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on September 05, 2010, 12:11:06 PM
I agree. The Wii's successor should be focused on new games, not porting over old ones. Besides, if you wanted any of the games on that list, by the time the Wii 2 ports released you would likely already own their original incarnations.
And "Resident Evil 5 Wii" already exists: it's the Move patch that's releasing next month.
What I am saying is that Resident Evil 5 for the wii 2. As for all of those ports of HD games to the wii 2, If the wii 2 is as awesome as I hope it will be, I may never buy another Sony or Microsoft console again in my life. Rather than miss out on these games, I would like to see them ported over as budget titles for the wii 2 for about $19.99 each. But let's move onto another topic.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BeautifulShy on September 05, 2010, 12:27:56 PM
Kytim it is nice that you have applyed for a job at Infendo but don't you think you should start writing that article instead of posting here.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on September 05, 2010, 12:42:18 PM
Kytim it is nice that you have applyed for a job at Infendo but don't you think you should start writing that article instead of posting here.
I already posted that article to the guy who is doing the hiring. Basically I broke each game down and discussed the reasons for why they should be ported to the wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on September 05, 2010, 06:29:08 PM
ifWii 2 is as successful as Wii and has decent hardware...won't that make it a modern Super Nintendo
**** call it Super Nintendo 2 !
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on September 05, 2010, 06:29:45 PM
ifWii 2 is as successful as Wii and has decent hardware...won't that make it a modern Super Nintendo
**** call it Super Nintendo 2 !
How so?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on September 07, 2010, 09:14:03 PM
street fighter naming rules
NES super NES n64 gcn wii
super wii super nintendo 2 super gamecube
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on September 08, 2010, 12:19:13 AM
NES - Wii Super NES - Super Wii Nintendo Ultra 64 - Wii Ultra [64] GameCube Nintendo - GameCube Wii Wii - Wii Entertainment System (WES: The Circle Is Now Complete)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 03, 2010, 01:16:33 PM
Wii 2
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 04, 2010, 08:49:13 PM
Thoughts about the Wii 2 have been bugging me for a while, especially since the 3DS is so close to being on the market. Therefore I have compiled a list of things that the Wii 2 must have once it is revealed.
Advanced 1:1 motion controls. Take the concept of the motion plus and advance it further. This controller system would be Nintendo’s version of Sony’s Move controller.
The Wii 2 will have four to eight GB of internal flash memory.
Internal HDD support (2.5 SATA). Nintendo will not provide a hard drive for the Wii 2, but they will leave it up to the consumer to buy their own hard drive from a third party (Maxtor, Toshiba, Seagate, Western Digital, etc.).
External storage support (USB flash and HDD). Consumers will be able to utilize the USB ports of the Wii 2 to use external storage devices for back up.
Dreamcast, Saturn and possibly Gamecube virtual console.
High definition graphics comparable to Xbox 360. Nintendo’s game design philosophy is that graphics are secondary to game play. However, Nintendo knows that SD graphics are becoming extinct, so they will move onto HD for the Wii 2. It would be easier for Nintendo to make the jump from Wii to 360 then from the Wii to PS3. Although Nintendo will utilize cheaper components to make the leap in graphics.
Built in 3D capabilities (unlocked via firmware). Right now the cost of 3D televisions is too cost prohibitive for Nintendo to include 3D in their next console, but it might cheap to include in the Wii 2 and if the price of 3D TVs fall in the next five years then Nintendo could just open 3D up via firmware and have a 3D home console like the 3DS.
Wireless Classic Controller Pro with rumble. Taking a queue from Sony and Microsoft’s controllers, Nintendo releases an update of the Classic controller pro that is wireless with rumble capabilities.
Wireless motion controllers similar to the Move controller, but with an IR sensor. The Wii 2 nunchuck would feature rumble as well.
Form factor similar to the Xbox 360. If the Wii 2 is going to have HD graphics, Nintendo will have to make the system bigger than the current Wii system. The form factor of the Wii 2 would be similar in size and scale to the 360 slim, but instead of a disc tray, the Wii 2 would have a disc slot like the Wii console.
Holographic disc storage or HD-DVD. Nintendo has invested millions into holographic storage for a number of years now, but what ever disc media that is simultaneously cheap to manufacture and hard to pirate, Nintendo will adopt it in a hot minute.
Universal friend codes. All Nintendo fans detest the friend code system, so instead of individual codes for each game, Nintendo gives each system its own code and any multiplayer game played on that system uses that same code to link up to other players. Problem solved, right?
Online structure to better accommodate DLC, MMO and multiplayer (see Universal friend codes). There is a robust online system for both the PS3 and 360, and this is something that the Wii is lacking. The Wii 2 will have to turn this around. The Wii 2 should be home to a number of good MMO and at the same time allow third parties to deliver down loadable content to consumers.
Wireless head set support for multiplayer games. The PS3 and 360 both have head set support, and arguably the Wii has Wii speak, but the head set system for the Wii 2 must support all multiplayer games with little to static.
SD card slot retained from the first Wii.
Netflix and Hulu subscriptions in HD. The Netflx account of the Wii 2 would also allow movies to be purchased and stored onto the Wii 2 as channels like games.
If the Gamecube is not on virtual console, then Gamecube controller and memory card ports should be retained for backwards compatibility.
Transfer of virtual console and wiiware via Club Nintendo account. All a gamer would have to do is remove their account from the Wii and then reactivate it onto the Wii 2 to make the games transition over to the new console.
Wii shop channel upgrade to include faster download speeds and a shopping cart and wish list features. This system would be similar to one such as Amazon where a purchaser can read reviews about a certain game and even watch demo videos to determine whether the game is worth buying. Also, games from the Wii shop channel should be allowed to be down loaded in bulk to lower back tracking.
Touch sensitive buttons. The 360 slim has touch sensitive buttons, and Nintendo loves touch sensitization, so instead pressing the power, reset or eject buttons on the front of the Wii 2, all you have to do is run your finger across the button to activate its function.
Built in Ethernet port to supplement bandwidth for MMO games.
Built in HDMI port with resolution support up to 1080p.
Five USB ports for accessories and external storage devices.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 05, 2010, 11:16:12 AM
I think the Wii 2 will be a nice system...it will be like the 3DS (If the 3DS is successful) and what I mean is that it will be a somewhat less revolutionary system, but will be much more powerful. Actually, I guess a better comparison is NES to Super Nintendo.
What I would like Nintendo to do. Is somehow get technology that enhances the sensor bar, but allows the Wiiremote + to still be the standard controller. So that everything for the Wii is compatible with the Wii 2. Or I like Super Nintendo Wii Hyper Turbo edition. Perhaps a camera inside the Wii sensor bar or 2 or 3...along with better inferred lights to allow a new more powerful sensor bar to detect some of the movement, and the Wiimote do other parts.
Then HD is a must, but I don't want it to be forced. We need a true "developers" system for a console. Giving the developer everything needed out of the box for games. So I would also but Wii Speak technology in the sensor bar to allow voice communication for games making it a standard all games can use.
Then I want moderate jump in graphics and technology from the Xbnox 360...to help keep price down. I am thinking, 1 Gig of RAM is plenty...and a processor that is about 1.5-2X faster than the Xbox 360. I want a system that can be functional but not overly expensive...Nintendo should be shooting for another $249.99 price point...or less.
Finally, backwards compatibility with everything, controllers, Wii Games, Viritual Console, Wii Ware. EVERYTHING. So gamers will see this upgrade as not a huge investment. I already have the Wiimote+ controllers. I am set for this new system. But...WOW, I can't believe how it performs much better with this new sensor bar.
This would be the perfect setup for Nintendo to win. Don't go big...go smart.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 05, 2010, 01:27:47 PM
I do not know for sure how the Wii 2 will turn out, but I do know that Nintendo is going to develop the system to do away with hardware limitations. Hardware limitations will never be as bad as the Wii when the Wii 2 is released and this will attract many third parties to the system.
As for the specs of the Wii 2, I am not too familiar with this stuff, but two Gigabytes of RAM seems like a good choice for the system.
Nintendo is not going to allow you to retain the Wiimote for Wii 2 games because they want you to buy the controller of the new system. Wiimote support will be retained for backwards compatibility for Wii games.
As for how powerful the system is when it is revealed, it is going to be in the 360 range of graphics. However, some might think that why the 360 when Nintendo can jump to the PS3? Since the 360 is the weaker of the two, Nintendo would most likely take on its style but do it in a way that still makes Nintendo seem as if they not competing with Sony or Microsoft. Although once the Wii 2 stays on the market for about three years you will start to see that some titles that appear in the PS3 range.
I always figured that the Wii 2 would retail in America for $299.99 and the 3DS would retail for $199.99.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 05, 2010, 07:40:23 PM
What would the online structure of the Wii 2 be like if Nintendo were to take online more seriously with the next home console? I would really like to see Nintendo embrace MMOs and allow third parties to develop MMOs for the Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 05, 2010, 07:50:03 PM
Kytime: Why do you say that? Yes, I agree that in the past Nintendo wants to get as much money from people as possible with controllers. But, I think that strategy isn't a good one for casuals...or the hardcore.
I also, understand hardware limitation will be less of an issue, but my point is I want Nintendo to design something smart that seems like a logical next step and upgrade that people will look at and not hesitate to buy because of cost...and right now the Wii market (specially the casual) has invest ALOT of money in the Wii, and addition hardware. Wii Motion +, nunchuks, Balance Board, Wii Speak, extra controllers, Guitars and controllers for Rock Band, Guitar Hero, and now possibly the new Wiiremote +. I think the Wiiremote + should be the base controller for the "Super Wii." It would make logical sense, and it would allow casuals to immediately say "YES" to the upgrade.
If I can use everything I already have and get a new experience because of a nifty little advanced sensor bar (which is completely plausible with technology I listed) and get better graphics, I would upgrade...even for just a few games. Now, does that mean I think Nintendo should not create a newer "Super Wii" Controller? No of course they should tweak the design, but not add any new buttons or functions so that the original Wiimotes can still be used. So what I see is better designed button placement...not additional buttons added.
Now, for technology, the Wii 2 should not be a super powerhouse. It should be carefully designed to give developers what they need with little restrictions, but not create a system that is too expensive for developers or consumers. I think a jump of about "Xbox 360 1.5" would be a significant enough jump for current Wii owners. You get HD graphics, and processing power to do more actual gameplay tweaks, but the processors of that power should be cheap enough to be affordable in a system. We are getting to a level which system power isn't that important. Yes, the PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox 360....does anyone care....does anyone even notice the difference? Not really.
As for RAM, I don't think 2 Gigabytes is needed. Many laptops run bloated operating systems on 2 Gigabytes of RAM...and a gaming system is a much leaner device. 1 Gigabyte would give a HUGE performance upgrade, giving developers the Memory needed to produce anything they want with smart programming AND still be relatively cheap.
As for USB ports...5 is silly. My laptop has only 2...and most modern laptops have 3 at the most. If the Wii 2 has 2 or 3 USB ports it will be fine.
To me the important thing is for Nintendo to make the system more like a Super Nintendo jump...but even better. Make it a welcoming easy upgrade...something everyone can say Yes I will buy that...because the burden/investment is light. Then, the many others that haven't jumped onboard the Wii bandwagon, may join with great new games. Though that being said, I do want a new nunchuk design with Wii motion + level controls in the nunchuk...I think that could be the controller enhancement that would work best for the "Super Wii."
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 05, 2010, 07:59:22 PM
Nintendo will take online more seriously, but it will still be an odd duck. It will function, but not like everyone wants it too...because Nintendo likes to create experiences, and sometimes experiences are not as functional as just letting it happen.
I do think Nintendo will have voice chat for the whole system, which will translate into all games having voice chat...and I think a single system friend code will be incorporated into the new Wii.
I can see the Miis being a central element to the online experience. Perhaps creating a hub world for you to explore and find friends. The Easiest way to do this would be to just have a blank world with your friends Miis hanging out. When you click on them they tell you what game they are playing and if it is multiplayer, and perhaps even a selection to join them. Miis could be grouped together in parties to see who is sharing a game together. It is an experience...kinda user friendly, but not as functional as something simpler. That is what I see Nintendo doing...putting a Nintendo spin on it.
I personally like the concept of the Wii Speak for all voice chat. Not, could it be done better...yes. Put it in the sensor bar, and give us 4 microphones. 2 on each side. Two for canceling unwanted noises and 2 for voice communication. I think that would go along way. Perhaps that is too many...then whatever is needed to work. But I don't want to buy 4 earpieces to voice chat in my games.
As for MMOs...I dunno. I don't think embracing those is the direction I want to see Nintendo go. It means subscription fees and a lot of frustration...however, I do think that IF the online structure is fast enough and powerful enough...which it should be then MMOs will come whether we want them or not.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 05, 2010, 08:41:35 PM
Kytime: Why do you say that? Yes, I agree that in the past Nintendo wants to get as much money from people as possible with controllers. But, I think that strategy isn't a good one for casuals...or the hardcore.
I also, understand hardware limitation will be less of an issue, but my point is I want Nintendo to design something smart that seems like a logical next step and upgrade that people will look at and not hesitate to buy because of cost...and right now the Wii market (specially the casual) has invest ALOT of money in the Wii, and addition hardware. Wii Motion +, nunchuks, Balance Board, Wii Speak, extra controllers, Guitars and controllers for Rock Band, Guitar Hero, and now possibly the new Wiiremote +. I think the Wiiremote + should be the base controller for the "Super Wii." It would make logical sense, and it would allow casuals to immediately say "YES" to the upgrade.
If I can use everything I already have and get a new experience because of a nifty little advanced sensor bar (which is completely plausible with technology I listed) and get better graphics, I would upgrade...even for just a few games. Now, does that mean I think Nintendo should not create a newer "Super Wii" Controller? No of course they should tweak the design, but not add any new buttons or functions so that the original Wiimotes can still be used. So what I see is better designed button placement...not additional buttons added.
Now, for technology, the Wii 2 should not be a super powerhouse. It should be carefully designed to give developers what they need with little restrictions, but not create a system that is too expensive for developers or consumers. I think a jump of about "Xbox 360 1.5" would be a significant enough jump for current Wii owners. You get HD graphics, and processing power to do more actual gameplay tweaks, but the processors of that power should be cheap enough to be affordable in a system. We are getting to a level which system power isn't that important. Yes, the PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox 360....does anyone care....does anyone even notice the difference? Not really.
As for RAM, I don't think 2 Gigabytes is needed. Many laptops run bloated operating systems on 2 Gigabytes of RAM...and a gaming system is a much leaner device. 1 Gigabyte would give a HUGE performance upgrade, giving developers the Memory needed to produce anything they want with smart programming AND still be relatively cheap.
As for USB ports...5 is silly. My laptop has only 2...and most modern laptops have 3 at the most. If the Wii 2 has 2 or 3 USB ports it will be fine.
To me the important thing is for Nintendo to make the system more like a Super Nintendo jump...but even better. Make it a welcoming easy upgrade...something everyone can say Yes I will buy that...because the burden/investment is light. Then, the many others that haven't jumped onboard the Wii bandwagon, may join with great new games. Though that being said, I do want a new nunchuk design with Wii motion + level controls in the nunchuk...I think that could be the controller enhancement that would work best for the "Super Wii."
I respect your idea of the Wii 2 having the basic Wiimote as its controller, but it seems like the gaming market has always had a new system that has always wnet hand-in-hand with a newer interface.
As for the graphics of the Wii 2, I agree that the system will not be a powerhouse, but it will be powerful enough to run such HD games GTA 4 and Mass Effect 2 with very little trouble, for example. The system is going to be strong enough that third parties will not have any lame excuses as to why they are not selling due to hardware limitations. I have no problem with the Wii 2 be a Xbox 360 1.5 since the Wii itself is a Gamecube 1.5 and was still successful. Lastly, the 3DS is essentially Nintendo's PSP with cheaper components and the Wii 2 will be the same in regards to the 360.
I compare Nintendo putting HD graphics to a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. The Wii with SD graphics represents the caterpillar. Eventually the caterpillar goes into a metomorphosis and turns into a butterfly, which represents the Wii 2 with HD graphics. The husk represents Nintendo casting off SD graphics.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 05, 2010, 08:48:41 PM
I think Wii2 should be backwards compatible, but I don't think a wiimote+ would have the complete functionality of the Wiimote 2.0 therefore not all Wii hardware, especially the wiimote+, would be forward compatible.
I'm really hoping for a camera to be placed in the sensor bar. more than one camera actually. a regular camera that works like the current Wii Motion Camera from Ubisoft and atleast one other camera, like the IR camera that in in the Wiimote.
the wiimote 2.0 should have some IR lights (like in the sensor bar) wrapped around the top and bottom edges of the controller so that it can be tracked in a similar yet more accurate fashion to Sony's Move. The Wii2 should also have enough horsepower to independently track 8 wiimote 2.0's without taking a hit in the actual game that is utilizing the tech. That way we can have 4 player games that use 2 wiimote 2.0's each. Also using IR lights around the edges of the wiimote allows the camera to see the lights but avoids the ridiculous look of the Disco Stick that Sony made. it would also allow for all the accessories that you bought for your Wii to still be usable with the Wiimote 2.0 the same way that they are with the wiimote+.
as far as anything else Nintendo might create.... Just remember that Nintendo will do things differently just because someone else already did it. They've even said as much in the recent Investors Q&A. If I can be bothered to re-read it and find the specif quote, I'll post it here.
rather than following suit with what other companies are doing in general, we thought that Nintendo could go its own way.
that was in reference to why Nintendo went with fixed shaders on the 3DS, but it's pretty obvious that that is also a company mandate.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 05, 2010, 09:01:44 PM
@ BnM
I am curious to see how Nintendo does HD, online, and beefier mtion technology for the next system. They always have a unique way of doing things and this is why I am going to stick with them for their next home console.
"I'm really hoping for a camera to be placed in the sensor bar. more than one camera actually. a regular camera that works like the current Wii Motion Camera from Ubisoft and atleast one other camera, like the IR camera that in in the Wiimote."
Would this be similar to Microsoft's Kinect?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 05, 2010, 09:30:20 PM
similar but not the same.
Kinect has an IR projector (according to Wikipedia) and I'm talking about something just different enough that Nintendo can call it all their own.
One regular motion sensing camera and an IR camera, both built into the sensor bar along with the WiiSpeak.
now also imagine a wiimote+ with a red rubberband around the top and a blue rubberband around the bottom. that is where the IR lights would be hidden. you can see where they are, but only the camera would be able to pick up the light emitted from them. So now you have the wiimote tracking the sensor bar and the sensor bar also tracking the wiimote. you are not gonna get any better pointing(a wiimote specialty) and 1:1 controls(a Move specialty) than that. Top that with a motion sensing camera and you have a little bit of Kinect there too so you truly would have the best of both worlds.
I'm not sold on 3D body capture for use in gaming in my livingroom, so I would excuse Nintendo if their Motion camera wasn't the most advanced piece of technology out there.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 05, 2010, 09:56:42 PM
Kinect has an IR projector (according to Wikipedia) and I'm talking about something just different enough that Nintendo can call it all their own.
One regular motion sensing camera and an IR camera, both built into the sensor bar along with the WiiSpeak.
now also imagine a wiimote+ with a red rubberband around the top and a blue rubberband around the bottom. that is where the IR lights would be hidden. you can see where they are, but only the camera would be able to pick up the light emitted from them. So now you have the wiimote tracking the sensor bar and the sensor bar also tracking the wiimote. you are not gonna get any better pointing(a wiimote specialty) and 1:1 controls(a Move specialty) than that. Top that with a motion sensing camera and you have a little bit of Kinect there too so you truly would have the best of both worlds.
I'm not sold on 3D body capture for use in gaming in my livingroom, so I would excuse Nintendo if their Motion camera wasn't the most advanced piece of technology out there.
Wii speak built into the sensor bar? I would prefer a wireless head set like the one people carry around on their ear to talk on the telephone for communication in my games.
What would you like to see done to the online components of the Wii 2? Would a built-in ethernet port help MMOs games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 05, 2010, 10:30:57 PM
B&M: You and I are basically on the same wavelength.
I don't want Nintendo to reinvent the wheel. They created the Wheel with the motion controls I want Nintendo to polish it up and make it the best. Having 2 independent tracking sources working together would be perfect. However, I am not sure we need the power to be able to track 8 Wiimote 2.0s. As it is, with 2 independent sources tracking you have the XYZ being calculated twice for each Wiimote, plus whatever the gyroscopes are sending. That is a lot of information. I think a full motion + analog nunchuk would be better. I could even see adding a button press on the analog stick like the Xbox 360 has and such. It would not be great for actions, but could be used to pull up quick weapon selects or such...it would add another button that could be useful without making the controller more complex.
As for the controller layout. I would love to move the +,- buttons closer to the A button. Perhaps have a triangle layout of buttons.
A + --
The A Button will be much bigger and the +/- could be oval shaped slanted to give a different feel, and could be slightly raised above the A button to make it harder to accidental press. Bigger D-Pad and Bigger 1/2 Buttons and you are set. Home button can be still in the center.
I do not want 3D body capture either.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 05, 2010, 10:32:05 PM
Wiispeak in sensorbar please for the wii. I don't want to buy more accessories than needed. Think DS developer system...if it is available to every user from the start it will be used by developers all over.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 05, 2010, 10:57:14 PM
RE: Wiispeak built in vs headset
no one is saying that you can't have both options, but this way all players on one end can communicate with all players on the other end out of the box. WiiSpeak is a Nintendo Way® product, so I expect them to try and improve upon it and incorporate it from the start in one way or another. Individual headsets is something that the competition is already doing, so I dont expect Nintendo to follow suit on day 1, but the option for support should not be excluded.
and why would an ethernet port have anything to do with an MMO being made for the Wii2?
Re: Tracking 8 Wiimote 2.0's
The Nunchuck 2.0 should have the same basic design as the Wiimote 2.0 as in they both have the IR LED's that can be tracked by the camera and full gyroscropic sensor inclusion. so it wouldn't have to be 8 wiimotes, but it could be 4 wiimote/nunchuck combos.
Sword and shield 4 player battle(Zelda or Gladiator). 2 player Punchout. Dual Wielding guns (independently) in some 4 player split-screen/online FPS. and the posibilites go on and on.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 06, 2010, 12:11:11 AM
BnM, does Ethernet allow a more stable online connection for consoles? I was always under the impression that wireless connections for MMOs was not very stable and that it was best to have a corded connection. The PS2 slim had a Ethernet port and the PS360 has one, right?
I mention MMOs on the Wii 2 because it would be a cool step for both Nintendo and third parties to step into the MMO genre. Also, could Nintendo offer an online structure similar to XBL or Home? Which would e better and make more more sense for Nintendo?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 06, 2010, 05:37:25 AM
Ethernet does provide a better connection. Faster speeds, and more reliability...but it has nothing to do with whether or not a developer would support a console with an MMO. MMOs almost always work better on PC, and with the game play of MOST MMOs the keyboard and extra input devices are important.
Also, I have a hard time seeing gamers willing to pay extra to play online with console games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on November 06, 2010, 08:07:42 AM
Also, I have a hard time seeing gamers willing to pay extra to play online with console games.
*COUGH*XBoxLiveSubscription*COUGH*
I would not mind paying Nintendo 2000 Nintendo points for a godd online system. The director of Bioware just recently stated that free-to-play online games is going to become the norm.
I recently read some where that said that PC gaming is on the decline and that console MMOs will replace the ones on PC.
I would like to see a LoZ MMO on the Wii 2 developed by Nintendo and would also like for Retro Studios to develop their MMO.
This whole MMO discussion is one of my ideas for the evolutionary step for Nintendo to do with the system.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on November 06, 2010, 03:16:49 PM
Free MMOs are a bad idea. Because that would mean you pay money to progress like the games on facebook.
Also, people have been heralding the doom of PC gaming for over a generation. It's not going anywhere anytime soon. Plus as long as WOW is successful we will have MMOs on the PC.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 06, 2010, 04:43:02 PM
We can all agree that Nintendo's next console has to have stronger online multiplayer and some kind of universal friend code system.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 06, 2010, 10:02:40 PM
Also, I have a hard time seeing gamers willing to pay extra to play online with console games.
*COUGH*XBoxLiveSubscription*COUGH*
Not my point. Xbox Live is a service to play all games online, and connect to a server to talk to all your friends. MMOs you pay an online fee to play a single game. VERY, VERY different. Paying for a service to have a unified online experience for all your games is different than paying to play a single game...in addition to your fee to play online.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 06, 2010, 10:16:01 PM
Also, I have a hard time seeing gamers willing to pay extra to play online with console games.
*COUGH*XBoxLiveSubscription*COUGH*
Not my point. Xbox Live is a service to play all games online, and connect to a server to talk to all your friends. MMOs you pay an online fee to play a single game. VERY, VERY different. Paying for a service to have a unified online experience for all your games is different than paying to play a single game...in addition to your fee to play online.
Hasn't Nintendo's business model always been unified experience? If so, this leads me to believe they might very well try to pursue a better online structure with their next system.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 07, 2010, 12:19:52 AM
Free MMOs are a bad idea. Because that would mean you pay money to progress like the games on facebook.
ahahhahahahahahhahhaahahahhaa
No. Free to play MMOs are some of the biggest up and coming games right now. There are some excellent ones like Vindictus and Battlefield.
They just have to be smart about how they make their money back. Some companies do it just on customization of character or increased inventory size, etc. It works good.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on November 07, 2010, 01:49:55 PM
I like the idea of the sensor becoming more robust with added functionality. Video camera, microphone and the ability to track wiimotes and body movements would make Sony and Microsoft look stupid.
I'd also like to see BC with the Wii, VC, and Wiiware. Anything beyond that is unrealistic.
The online system will probably mimic the 3DS's. So we'll have to see whether it uses a universal code (preferably tied to a username) or friend codes again (which would suck dick).
After that, there's not much more they need to do. Make a decently powerful console capable of HD and current gen like graphics, add a higher storage capacity (at least 32 gb) with the option to add more and call it a wrap.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 07, 2010, 02:08:02 PM
I like the idea of the sensor becoming more robust with added functionality. Video camera, microphone and the ability to track wiimotes and body movements would make Sony and Microsoft look stupid.
I'd also like to see BC with the Wii, VC, and Wiiware. Anything beyond that is unrealistic.
The online system will probably mimic the 3DS's. So we'll have to see whether it uses a universal code (preferably tied to a username) or friend codes again (which would suck dick).
After that, there's not much more they need to do. Make a decently powerful console capable of HD and current gen like graphics, add a higher storage capacity (at least 32 gb) with the option to add more and call it a wrap.
The Wii 2 is most likely going to use universal friend codes for multiplayer and as for internal stoarage, Nintendo would most like offer a small amount of internal flash memory (8 GB) and then offer an internal HDD like the PS360.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 07, 2010, 02:43:38 PM
Made a quick drawing for what I was thinking about with the Wiimote 2.0 and Sensorbar 2.0 so everyone could see what I was thinking.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/14v2ja.jpg)
I was gonna make one for the nunchuck too, but I gotta go run an errand real quick so I didn't have time right now.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on November 07, 2010, 04:03:37 PM
Heck yes it better have 4 face buttons, but aren't you forgetting the black and white printer built into the sensor bar?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 07, 2010, 05:20:36 PM
BnM, would it be possible for you to do a drawing of what the Wii 2 would look like if it were revealed? I figure that the device would be about the same scale as the 360 slim, so use that as a reference and then combine it with Nintendo's design aesthetic and some similarities to the current Wii.
For the exception of the N64, every Nintendo home console has taken on a flat square or rectangle shape to their design, so this leads me to believe that the Wii 2 going to be similar in shape and scale to the 360 slim because it kind of has a rectangular form.
I imagine that the actual Wii 2 as being something like a DSi with the hinges, camera and buttons removed and two portions molded together and about the size of the 360 slim. The disc slot would be in the same place as where the DSi opens in the middle. The ports for the console would be where the DS slot and charging port are located at on the DSi.
Wii + DSi + 360 slim (shape and scale) = Wii 2
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 07, 2010, 07:21:16 PM
I have no idea on what form factor a Wii2 would take so while it would be possible, it's not gonna happen.
But I did just try to do the nunchuck 2.0 and watched it evolve as I try to figure out how my idea was even gonna work. I think it turned out ok for a rough draft and a rough idea. Oh, I also did a revision on the Sensor Bar 2.0 to future proof it a little bit and prep for some 3DS connectivity.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/mlov4n.jpg)
p.s. In case you couldn't tell, I'm bored.... (it's raining outside.) I also left in the dimensions of the original nunchuck for reference.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 07, 2010, 07:34:54 PM
I don't like the 4 face buttons. The buttons would be too small to use. I would prefer bigger 1 and 2 buttons. Then move the -/+ buttons up (they could be renamed) to be a triangle button layout. That would give you access to 4 buttons easily A, B, +, - and then you have 1 and 2.
With the nunchuk you have 2 more buttons, and could add a button press pushing down the analog stick. That is 6 or 7 buttons....plus better motion control would be a perfect controller.
Also realistically you don't need the light bar on the back of the Wii remote. You almost never hold it where those lights will be easily visible. Instead, Just at the front would be good...and you probably don't need it to be a strip of lights either. Just the edges of the controller.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 07, 2010, 07:36:54 PM
Drawing a hyptothetical gaming system is always a good way to combat bordom. ;D
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 07, 2010, 07:51:45 PM
Let me explain why I was thinking a strip and not just a light at the tip.
The main reason why it was a strip around the edge of the wiimote was that the IR camera is on the top and if the remote is pointing at the screen, then it obviously already knows where the remote is.
One of the main problems with Sony's approach with the Lollipop, is that the tip is perfectly spherical and the remote could have any orientation and the orientation isn't error correcting the sensors since it can't tell which direction the orb is facing since it's practically the same in every direction. It's just tracking the light it emits.
and that is also why I have it tracking the top and bottom of every remote. So that when there are wild moments of twisting, leaning & turning of the remote, the camera will be able to accurately track the remote regardless of what direction it's pointing or how ever you are holding it. They system won't have to guess where it is at while the gyro sensors are trying to get reorientated and this will take an approach done by Sony to the next level and actually perfecting the technology.
*edit: I also forgot to mention that having them on the sides will also allow the controller to be tracked while being held sideways.*
There will be no more improving of the pointer and controller tracking at that point from the competition and all that will be left is making sure there is enough horsepower to do decent head tracking and basic body motion camera stuff. Nintendo is then sitting back in the drivers seat while MS & Sony try to figure out how to push their tech further for their next console.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 07, 2010, 10:35:35 PM
Gotcha. I actually understood what you were saying, and your reasoning. I wonder if having that many lights might hurt the effect from the light spreading?
I could see using a band, but it seemed more practical to just have 5-6 lights on the corners and sides of the front of the remote. I still can't ever see a reason for having it on the bottom.
Also, I would not track the nunchuk at all in that manner, and just have Wii-motion+ level movements. The reasons are pretty obvious.
1)Design of the Nunchuk is needlessly complex, and sliding your and into a a holder like that can be comfortable and may not fit for others. Keeping It Simple is better.
2) Games that are using the Nunchuk for the Nunchuk properties IE analog stick and additional buttons, and some movement won't need the same advanced movement options already in the Wiimote 2.0 However, if you did need that set up for a game 2 Wiimotes is already plausible.
Yeah, I agree that Nintendo needs to perfect the controller with Wiimote 2.0 Though, I think it needs to be done in the smartest way possible. Though the one thing that would be cool about your light strip idea is each new player could be given a different color light that would help identify the controllers easier, and look cool.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on November 07, 2010, 11:43:49 PM
There is no reason for the Nunchuck 2.0 to not be tracked by IR light if the Wiimote 2.0 is using it. It's cheap, it's effective, and could do away with the need for a gyroscope entirely.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 07, 2010, 11:59:46 PM
Gotcha. I actually understood what you were saying, and your reasoning. I wonder if having that many lights might hurt the effect from the light spreading?
I could see using a band, but it seemed more practical to just have 5-6 lights on the corners and sides of the front of the remote. I still can't ever see a reason for having it on the bottom.
Also, I would not track the nunchuk at all in that manner, and just have Wii-motion+ level movements. The reasons are pretty obvious.
1)Design of the Nunchuk is needlessly complex, and sliding your and into a a holder like that can be comfortable and may not fit for others. Keeping It Simple is better.
Well the nunchuck design was created as it was being drawn. originally I was thinking of just extending the top and bottom of the nunchuck, but that looked kinda stupid, so I turned it into a "brass knuckle" design in stead. it could be used to have a different IR strip set up to make separating the wiimote from the nunchuck easier for the camera.
Quote
2) Games that are using the Nunchuk for the Nunchuk properties IE analog stick and additional buttons, and some movement won't need the same advanced movement options already in the Wiimote 2.0 However, if you did need that set up for a game 2 Wiimotes is already plausible.
Think of a Sword and Shield game. Zelda 2011 (Wii/Wii2 game). You are gonna want your analog controls still, so tracking the nunchuck properly would solve the need for having to shoose on whether you have a second pointer or having an analog joystick. The only time you should need to use a second Wiimote should be when you need a single player to use 2 pointers (dual wielding independent pistols maybe?) Having the Nunchuck tracked too is keeping it real simple for the user. You have everything you need out of the box.
Quote
Yeah, I agree that Nintendo needs to perfect the controller with Wiimote 2.0 Though, I think it needs to be done in the smartest way possible. Though the one thing that would be cool about your light strip idea is each new player could be given a different color light that would help identify the controllers easier, and look cool.
Can you do differently colored IR lights? I have been assuming that you can, but I didn't really think about that aspect. I wasn't thinking of different colored LEDs that you can see, I'm talking about the invisible lights like in the sensor bar. If your not sure what I'm talking about, turn on your Wii and look at the sensor bar through your cellphone camera (there are 10 lights on there, 5 on each side). (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/BlackNMild2k1/446648535_photobucket_13613_.jpg)
although it lighting up in pairs would be pretty damn cool too. Especially if you can choose the color like on Move, but only having the color strips on each controller lit up, not a giant glowing ball.
There is no reason for the Nunchuck 2.0 to not be tracked by IR light if the Wiimote 2.0 is using it. It's cheap, it's effective, and could do away with the need for a gyroscope entirely.
gyroscopes still needed. could do with out the cord though.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 08, 2010, 12:34:58 AM
Another question that is looming in my mind equally to the Wii 2 is what will happen to the Wii itself once the Wii is released. I would wager that the Wii has at the least fifteen months of its life cycle left. In fact, E3 2011 will most likely be its last year as Nintendo's major home console. By that time the Wii 2 will be fully revealed and on course for a release in Japan in either late 2011 or early 2012 and in the west by mid to late 2012.
Once the Wii is replaced on the market, it may still not go by the way side in the same way all consoles go when their successor arrives. Nintendo would most likely reveal a hardware revision in the same vein as the PS2 slim. We will call it the Wii slim and Nintendo would market it to parents will young children and casuals who do not want to move onto the Wii 2. It would retail for about $100.00 when it is released. I see them doing the same thing with the DS onc the 3DS gets strong on the market.
How would bluetooth motion control work?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 08, 2010, 07:40:54 AM
I see. Well.. if they can work it out. I don't want to sound like a stick in the mud at all. I just want to know how it can be made as simple as possible, without adding cost.
I like your ideas and it is very cool design.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: RABicle on November 08, 2010, 07:56:28 AM
Another question that is looming in my mind equally to the Wii 2 is what will happen to the Wii itself once the Wii is released. I would wager that the Wii has at the least fifteen months of its life cycle left. In fact, E3 2011 will most likely be its last year as Nintendo's major home console. By that time the Wii 2 will be fully revealed and on course for a release in Japan in either late 2011 or early 2012 and in the west by mid to late 2012.
If anything Sony proved that backwards compatibility was not necessary with the PS3. Sure people bitched but seriously, who gets rid of their old consoles anyway? It's not like they have any resell value.
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How would bluetooth motion control work?
For all intents and purposes, the current wii remotes are bluetooth.
I don't think a nun chuck is necessary. Who doesn't own two wii remotes? Just give the Wii remote a thumbstick instead of a d pad.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 08, 2010, 08:08:26 AM
I got rid of my old system...and plenty of people want to save space when buying a new system.
I think Backwards compatibility is important with at least the prior generation. But, if you notice PS3 is in LAST place, so I think Sony has made quite a few trip ups that show you can't say Sony did this and it was ok.
I like the cord, on my nun chuk and I don't want to get rid of it. Perhaps a slightly and only slightly longer cord, but a cordless just means more and more batteries.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 08, 2010, 11:01:06 AM
Sony got slammed hard for removing backwards compatibilty from the PS3. I mean that I refuse to buy a PS3 until they resolve the issue of playing PS2 games on the console. This is why I like Nintendo, they know that BC is important, especieally when a new console is first released. I mean think about what would have happened to the DS if the GBA slot had been removed from the begining. The Wii 2 is going to be BC with the Wii and Gamecube.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on November 08, 2010, 11:09:34 AM
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This is why I like Nintendo, they know that BC is important, especieally when a new console is first released
Do you know that Wii is their first BC console?
And that
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The Wii 2 is going to be BC with the Wii and Gamecube.
would be unprecedented and probably unlikely? Why do you make emphatic statements like this?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 08, 2010, 01:31:44 PM
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Once the Wii is replaced on the market, it may still not go by the way side in the same way all consoles go when their successor arrives. Nintendo would most likely reveal a hardware revision in the same vein as the PS2 slim. We will call it the Wii slim and Nintendo would market it to parents will young children and casuals who do not want to move onto the Wii 2. It would retail for about $100.00 when it is released. I see them doing the same thing with the DS onc the 3DS gets strong on the market.
If Nintendo wants the casual market to follow them to the Wii 2 then I think they should just outright kill the Wii off almost immediately after the Wii 2 is out. If they continue to support it then why would casuals feel the need to move on? These aren't core gamers who need the newest games. These are the people who are content with Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit until Nintendo releases some new product that interests them. I think there would be a risk of these people being content with their original Wii that plays the three casual-focused titles they love.
Sony had the problem where the PS2 continued to be successful and was actually selling better than the PS3. I think a big part of that was Sony continuing to support it for so long. Titles like Rock Band and Madden continued to have PS2 releases. If that was all you cared about why buy the new system?
We've never really seen a follow-up to such a casual-oriented system like the Wii before. I think getting casuals to buy new hardware might be a challenge to begin with. Us core gamers are anxiously awaiting a Wii 2. We want to see Nintendo with HD graphics. We hope THIS will solve the third party issues. We want an improvement in their online model. Casuals don't give a **** about this. They're not really looking for anything. Their videogame system is a minor distraction in their lives and largely unessential. So I think Nintendo is really going to need some must-own game for that audience to jump to a Wii 2 to begin with. But I also think that new titles on the Wii is just going to keep people from making the switch. They should be quick to kill the Wii off. For casuals the small trickle of largely weak titles that occurs at the end of a system's life might in fact be good enough for them to stick with their original Wii.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 08, 2010, 01:59:42 PM
Why would Nintendo kill off the Wii immediately after the Wii2 is released?
I'm sure Nintendo would LOVE to have the late adopter market that the PS2 has been enjoying for the last 5+ years. Those people still buying PS2s now will be the same people who will be buying the Wii 3-4 years from now. Releasing a new system isn't gonna affect those people's buying decisions, the only thing that does that is price.
Cashing in on the really late adopters is like creating a hit show that goes into syndication so that you can move on to a bigger better show that you also hope to be a hit and move that into syndication too.
Like you said, if you want to get the casual market to take the leap to the new hardware, then you just need to provide the "Must Have" games that aren't possible on the previous system. They need a WiiSports & WiiFit like experience for the next system, anything that will get the attention of the masses, get them talking and showing their friends and family.
Also the main reason the PS2 was selling more than the PS3 is the fact that the PS3 was $599 vs the PS2 being $99. Even to this day it's a $299 PS3 vs a $99 PS2 and $60 PS3 games vs bargain bin < $10/$20 PS2 games.
and like you said about the end of the life of the system, the trickle of forgettable games at the end might be good enough for some, well there is nothing Nintendo can do about that other than make AAA content for the Wii2 that gets enough buzz to get the causal base to upgrade again. Nintendo can't exactly kill off the Wii because publishers will keep the games coming as long as they keep selling and that means that Wii could continue to get shovelware for years to come.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 08, 2010, 05:20:48 PM
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Cashing in on the really late adopters is like creating a hit show that goes into syndication so that you can move on to a bigger better show that you also hope to be a hit and move that into syndication too.
I see it more like two shows in the same timeslot. I just think there is a risk that with the casual market the original Wii will end up competing with the Wii 2.
The killer app is key but I honestly think it will be difficult for Nintendo to capture that lightning a bottle twice. Wii Sports had huge "neato" appeal with people moving the controller and the guy on the screen does the same thing! HOLY ****! That was a big moment in videogame history that can't be reproduced.
I don't think Nintendo is going to be able to come up with a new feature for the Wii 2 that will impress people as much as the initial motion control did. They will improve on the concept and likely add something new but I think it will be very hard to have something so big. I predict more of an upgrade than a revolution. It's just the law of diminishing returns. This will make it harder to come up with a killer app on par with Wii Sports. Wii Sports wasn't just the game, it was the feature.
I think Nintendo will have their work cut out for them in getting the casual audience to go to the Wii 2 so phasing the Wii out can help push those people along. The killer app could do it on its own but that killer app might be impossible to make.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 08, 2010, 07:22:54 PM
I can not help but feel as though the casuals will have a tough time moving onto the Wii 2 even if the Wii is phased out. The simple fact is that the Wii 2 may not be able to be marketed towards casuals in the same the Wii was marketed in 2005. They are not concerned with HD graphics or advanced motion controls.
I said this before, but Nintendo's true baby is the 3DS and it is no longer the Wii or even the Wii 2. I have heared that the gaming market in Japan is moving towards handhelds, so Nintendo would most likely release the Wii 2 in Japan for two reasons: First, for the sake of having a home console and the potential profits it would generate, and second, to keep Sony off balance with the Move. Other than that, Nintendo's main focus to push the 3DS as far as they can get with it.
The west, on the other hand, will get the Wii 2 for the same reasons I stated above, but there is also a thid option. The Wii 2 will be developed to satisify third parties, particularly western third parties in an attempt to keep their interest in Nintendo's home consoles.
This leads me to believe that Nintendo will push the Wii 2 and 3DS farther together in the west, but will mainly focus on building a solid foundation for the 3DS in Japan's market.
Also, if the Wii 2 is to have HD then it will have to be a big, bulky system, right? Traditionally the people of Japan have shiyed away from bulky consoles for more stream lined ones, right? But in the west we are accustom to bulk systems and so nothing will matter.
As for the Wii remaining on the market after the Wii 2 arrives, Nintendo would be mainly selling the consoles to soccer moms who have small children with no interest in HD gaming.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 08, 2010, 10:53:27 PM
Alright, if we're going to play Build Your Wii Successor, here's mine.
Controller: Nintendo 6 (6th console... look, it won't be called Wii 2 or Wii HD... f-ing Pachter) has to be able to do everything the Wii and Gamecube did AND something new and exciting. I firmly believe that N6 must have only ONE main controller. No add-ons (i.e. Motion Plus), no classic controller. The controller has to be able to do everything (motion controls, traditional controls, and whatever new-fangled thingamajig Nintendo has planned) with the same basic controller: remote and nunchuck-esque secondary controller. This simplifies things considerably for consumers and 3rd parties. This, however, means more buttons. For non-gamers, seeing someone playing the game rather than seeing the controller is what made it appealing. Most people didn't see the actual controller at first, they saw someone holding a white stick not playing games the way they're stereotypically played. Adding more buttons won't change that. After all, the DS has an SNES layout and that didn't scare non-gamers away. The 3DS has an analog stick. Nintendo is technically further complicating their handheld and yet it's still going to appeal to the same audience because the microphone and touchscreen negate the presence of more complicated controls. The buttons are there, but do nothing and thus are inconsequential to non-gamer software. This ultimately creates a balance for casual gaming and hardcore gaming. The same principle can be applied to N6. You can make all the buttons do nothing or have them all do the same thing (i.e. "Press any button to continue"), but you can't add more buttons after the fact. Give developers the tools and let them decide how to use them. With DS, Nintendo was all about giving developers more options. With Wii, they were essentially taking options away or making the alternative less appealing (since fewer people, by virtue, would have a classic controller) and essentially forcing developers to make due with the limitations of the Wii remote. Not the best way to win support.
My scanner isn't working so I can't show you any fancy drawings. I'll try my best to describe my set-up.
"Nunchuck": Wireless, no pointer, 3-axis accelerometer, gyroscope, rumble, rechargeable - Analog stick in main position, D-pad underneath, L and ZL (ZL has digital click) in the back Remote: Wireless, pointer, Infrared pointer, 3-axis accelerometer, gyroscope, rumble, rechargeable - traditional A,B,X,Y at the top, Analog Slider (3DS) underneath, minus, home, plus under that, then the speaker and finally 1,2,3,4 at the bottom. R and ZR (ZR has digital click) in the back.
It's basically the Classic Controller separated and shaped like a Remote and nunchuck.
Hardware: Nintendo must make the console as powerful as possible while still promoting efficiency and simplicity and either break even or make the smallest profit possible on hardware (do not sell at a loss). I suggest an MSRP of no more than $300, maybe $350. That means, make the most powerful console they can within the confines of a sub $350 MSRP. I'm not a spec whore. I say this only because it matters to 3rd parties and Nintendo should be trying to support them in any way they can. They're making the games and they can make Nintendo loads more money. Ultimately, what it comes down to: We get quality titles, Nintendo makes money, 3rd parties make money. Everyone wins. Nintendo will likely launch at least a year before Sony and Microsoft and Microsoft showed that with a little forward thinking, you can launch hardware first and still have hardware on the same level as a competitor. If Nintendo can get steady support and become the lead platform, it won't even matter if Sony and Microsoft launch slightly more powerful machines because 3rd parties will develop for N6 and port over. Exclusives are a dying breed, the vast majority of 3rd party titles will undoubtedly be multiplatform as we're already seeing today. Most 3rd party games are developed for 360 and ported to PS3.
Abandon Disc Based Media: No, I'm serious. I detest load times. Nintendo is never going to support DVD/Blu-Ray movie playback and they don't have to. However, if they aren't going to, that's one less reason to continue supporting discs. Therefore, abandoning disc based media in favor of cards is an excellent idea and one that provides numerous benefits including durability and quicker data access. Card based storage is more expensive than discs but the discrepancies between cart/card and disc are far narrower than they were back in the N64/PS1 days. Most modern games do not exceed a double sided DVD. For comparison's sake, you can get 8GB SD card (not saying they should use SD cards for storage, I mean something proprietary like DS) for $15 on Amazon. In a year, it'll be even less and on top of that, 3rd parties buy in bulk so it wouldn't even be that much. Games less than 4GB or 2GB (don't balk, Metroid Prime is less than 2GB and that game is massive) would require even cheaper cards.
Unfortunately, this would mean abandoning non-VC backwards compatibility. I know people love their BC, but Nintendo needs to think about N6 first and foremost, not Wii/Gamecube. While BC is a nice selling point for the first year, maybe 2, ultimately it becomes an afterthought and practically vestigial to most users. Eventually, every successful piece of hardware relies on its own merits. Backwards compatibility is a short-term solution to short handed launches whereas employing a card based storage medium provides major advantages throughout the entire lifespan of the console. While I'd love backwards compatibility, I'd sacrifice it for a more durable console with no load times. This is something gamers will notice immediately as they'll experience it within every single game.
Support SSD, continue to support SD cards: For the same reasons as employing cards. It's faster and more durable. The new Macbook Air models can start up in less than 15 seconds and that's loading OSX. N6 is merely a game console. Imagine getting to the menu screen in 10 seconds. Nintendo NEEDS some sort of massive storage device so it can do everything the competition does: patches (ugh), DLC (facepalm), demos, Virtual Console etc. 3rd parties will appreciate this and so will gamers. While SSD are expensive, the price is likely to continue to drop. Apple integrated flash based storage directly onto the motherboard of the new Macbook Air making flash based storage more common. Additionally, Toshiba, who supplies Apple with those pieces, started selling them as stand-alone SSD today. That said, the prices will likely fall to far more affordable prices by the time N6 launches. I think 128 GB should be more than enough for most people and there's always expansion by (slower) SD cards should space become an issue. Keep in mind, with card based media, installing games to improve load times is no longer necessary.
Virtual Console must support Gamecube and Wii games: Pretty self-explanatory. Most GCN games didn't exceed 1 disc whereas few Wii games filled an entire dual-layed DVD. With compression, the file sizes are likely to be even smaller. This is the best case scenario should Nintendo abandon BC.
Include Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort on the SSD: It's a nice little bonus incentive that costs Nintendo nothing. I think Nintendo should consider a pack-in game that demonstrates whatever new innovative feature they have planned, but since we have no idea what that might be, I can't really comment on it. Basically, it's the gateway drug... game.
Online, Universal Gamer ID, Integrate 3DS: I bundled these together for a reason. N6 and 3DS should be companion hardware capable to sharing information (Mii, Nintendo points etc.). Of course, a universal ID would help out tremendously. 3DS is likely to sell well; many people will have one. It could be used as an alternative controller option for some games, but rarely a requirement as few games could get away with that. It could potentially share GCN and under VC games too.
Not much more needs to be said of Nintendo's online structure. It needs to offer a similar experience to Xbox Live. It may not need all the bells and whistles, but a strong, consistent connection without lag, voice chat, friends list are all must-haves.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 09, 2010, 11:05:28 AM
I like the idea of having SSD support for the Wii 2, but it sems as if the price for that technolog is still too cost prohibitiv for Nintendo to implement into their console. Basic laptop HDDs are very cheap compared to SSD and Nintendo loves cheapness.
The biggest question I have about the storage solutions is what will Nintendo allow on the Wii 2? I have heared that Nintendo is reluctant to use HDD because of durability, but it seems to me that because of all the turmoil involving storage for the Wii, Nintendo would most likely make every storage option available. These would include:
Internal HDD (2.5 SATA) Exsternal flash drives and USB HDD SD card Internal flash (8 GB)
The only one of these options that I am skeptical, but some what optimistic about, is the internal HDD. It would raise the energy requirements of the console, but it would make installing games a lot easier, right? Also, I do not see Nintendo offering their own HDD, but I do see them allowing hard drives from companies like Maxtor to be used on the console.
Games such as Red Steel 2 could benefit tremendously from being allowed to be installed onto an HDD to lower load screen times.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 09, 2010, 10:46:53 PM
Adrock: Holy crap, those control options are nuts. I completely understand what you are trying to do, but it is just insane. I have a simpler idea. Just let the classic controllers from the Wii work with the new system.
The reasoning is pushing D-Pad and Slide bar underneath the controller will be just unintuitive. I love everything else about your proposal. Yes, a Static Drive drive is what Nintendo needs to use for storage. We don't need a large drive. 2-5 GIG static Drive would be plenty with SD card support from the start. Now, I am not one that says Nintendo MUST allow Hard Drive support for their system, but if people wanted it an external would be good support. I like the idea of SD cards because it is friendly takes up little space, and if the Wii 2.0 is designed well. It can place games and their respective game saves in the same location linked together...then when you copy one you copy both for Virtual Console games and Wii 2 games.
I still think buttons on the Wii remote are not as BIG of a problem as people think, and it is only the placement of some of the buttons not being useful. Adding 2 more buttons that are more optimal for usage would make the Wii much more playable.
I propose just adding X and Y back into the design. Think of the Gamecube controllers peanut shaped buttons. Now have 2 of those buttons surrounding the bottom left and right of the Big A button. Simple. You now have access to 4 face buttons easily holding the Wii remote in the default pointer position and then the tigger B button. (Down, A, Z, X and B) Add to that the Analog nunchuk and you have 7 buttons analog control AND pointer control. Less buttons than the traditional controllers but more than enough buttons for games...and classic controller support is still supported.
I think the Wii 1 and 2 buttons need to be made slightly larger and not worry about adding new buttons. It really isn't necessary for the design. And slightly more space could be used for a slightly bigger D-Pad which would make everything more comfortable. Holding the controller in the classic position you still have 3 main buttons, 4 if you count A and or B plus 2 other buttons which could still be used for something.
I could see dropping the D-Pad for the analog slider, but wonder if that is really necessary.
Now, I like disc based games being faster and requiring no load times, but I think abandoning it may alienate developers, which would be too costly for Nintendo...remember the Nintendo 64...which I know prices were less, but still I think it is a needless gamble, and allows Nintendo to keep full backwards compatibility if they choose.
I love your idea of packing Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort on the system...but I think I would go for modified versions of the games. Update the controls and pick the favorites from Wii Sports, Resort, and Wii Play as a collection of 10 pack in games. I am thinking: Bowling, Tennis, Fencing, Tanks (with 4 player support) Dog Fighting (with 4 player support), Boxing (with modified controls) Laser Hockey (with additional maps), Golf, Frisbee Golf [One other game from the collection] these games will be modified to support online play on Nintendo's new Mii gaming center to have out of the box internet play.
EDIT: Adrock. I realized after writing that you didn't mean Underneath the controller for the Slide bar and D-Pad. But I still don't know how the layout of an analog and D-Pad on the Nunchuk would work without being uncomfortable...or 4 buttons upfront on the controller.
I am keeping to the KEEP IT SIMPLE approach. Slight modifications that add big impact. 2 new face buttons add to the functionality of lack of buttons without going too complex. Black and Milds idea for camera tracking the Remote on the sensor bar doesn't add any new level of complexity just perfects motion control. Continued support for the Wii Speak inside the new sensor bar just means out of the box support for voice communication that can be built into the Wii 2.0 system from the start.
Many people are throwing the lets give every option available approach...which is awesome for dreaming about the best system. In my approach I want to create what I think is most plausible...or better yet the minimum standard for the next system.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 10, 2010, 01:12:17 AM
I still think buttons on the Wii remote are not as BIG of a problem as people think...
I think it does to developers. Give them more buttons and let them decide what to do with them. If they want to simplify the controls, they can. If they want to employ straight traditional controls, they can. Mix and match? Sure, why not? Nintendo shouldn't be forcing limitations (optional peripherals, fewer buttons) on 3rd parties as that's unfair and alienating. I prefer Nintendo's approach with the DS. There are so many options, but none of them are optional to the consumer; it all comes with every DS. Some of the most inventive games came from developers deciding on their own to try something new, but they always had the option not to.
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I propose just adding X and Y back into the design. Think of the Gamecube controllers peanut shaped buttons. Now have 2 of those buttons surrounding the bottom left and right of the Big A button. Simple. You now have access to 4 face buttons easily holding the Wii remote in the default pointer position and then the tigger B button. (Down, A, Z, X and B) Add to that the Analog nunchuk and you have 7 buttons analog control AND pointer control. Less buttons than the traditional controllers but more than enough buttons for games...and classic controller support is still supported.
Ugh, try playing a fighting game with Down on the D-Pad as anything for example. The point of my controller suggestion was to negate the Classic Controller. It shouldn't exist. It's extra and not everyone has one. On the Wii, it costs $100 for a Wii remote, nunchuck, Motion Plus, and a classic controller. That's asking a lot from consumers and even more from 3rd parties who have to decide to support one or some or all of those options. Who wants to deal with that sh*t?
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I could see dropping the D-Pad for the analog slider, but wonder if that is really necessary.
For my suggestion, the point would be that the controller could double as just a traditional controller thus allowing developers to make whatever game they want without fear that console owners won't have this piece or that add-on. One controller. One. And (not that you asked) I chose the analog slider because it's flat. You can still hold the N6 remote the same way as a Wii remote without this big analog stick protruding from the front of it.
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Now, I like disc based games being faster and requiring no load times, but I think abandoning it may alienate developers, which would be too costly for Nintendo...remember the Nintendo 64...which I know prices were less, but still I think it is a needless gamble, and allows Nintendo to keep full backwards compatibility if they choose.
How so? For 6 years, 3rd parties never balked at using cards on DS. As I stated in my last post, "Most modern games do not exceed a [dual-layered] DVD. For comparison's sake, you can get 8GB SD card (not saying they should use SD cards for storage, I mean something proprietary like DS) for $15 on Amazon. In a year, it'll be even less and on top of that, 3rd parties buy in bulk so it wouldn't even be that much. Games less than 4GB or 2GB (don't balk, Metroid Prime is less than 2GB and that game is massive) would require even cheaper cards" (Note: I originally said double sided DVD, but I meant dual-layered).
And I like backwards compatibility though I've barely used it on every piece of hardware that supported legacy games. However, I, personally, would bite the bullet and sacrifice the short term benefits of backwards compatibility for things that ultimately benefits the new console for its entire lifespan like durability and faster loading. It would be silly for Nintendo to continue using discs just for backwards compatibility. It's hardly a necessity, especially when a viable alternative with clear advantages is also available.
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EDIT: Adrock. I realized after writing that you didn't mean Underneath the controller for the Slide bar and D-Pad. But I still don't know how the layout of an analog and D-Pad on the Nunchuk would work without being uncomfortable...or 4 buttons upfront on the controller.
I blame my scanner. Sorry, dude. You would have gotten a pretty picture.
Anyway, 3DS has the analog slider above the D-Pad. I think that will work just fine so I would think a similar set-up on the "nunchuck" would as well. I would imagine that either the analog stick or D-Pad is being used primarily, more so the former with the D-pad serving secondary functions (i.e. Visor selection in Metroid Prime). The 4 buttons at the top are just the D-Pad split into A/B/X/Y (though I'd imagine each would at least be as large as 1 and 2 on the Wii controller). Also, I suggested adding buttons 3 and 4 so when the remote was turned on its side, it would have more functionality with A/B/X/Y acting as a less than ideal D-pad, but the analog slider would still be there too. However, I could see doing away with buttons 1/2/3/4 and axing the whole turning the controller on its side thing entirely since the standard Remote and secondary controller would be capable of doing the same thing.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 10, 2010, 01:58:11 AM
EDIT: Adrock. I realized after writing that you didn't mean Underneath the controller for the Slide bar and D-Pad. But I still don't know how the layout of an analog and D-Pad on the Nunchuk would work without being uncomfortable...or 4 buttons upfront on the controller.
(http://imgur.com/mvH9a.jpg)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 10, 2010, 08:44:11 AM
Black and Mild that looks horribly uncomfortable.
And Adrock I completely understand your opinion on fighting games...and I understand the value of wanting to eliminate the extra controllers. I feel that pain as well.
Though, I also don't want to play a fighting game with a cramped controller which the Wii remote may end up being...nor do I want to play a fighter with a split controller...but that may be easier than the cramped controller.
Black and Mild, I haven't used that controller yet...but man the X and o buttons are horribly placed...can you press those easily? Not without taking your thumb off the analog stick. And the D-Pad and Analog stick are also unusable together...but at least using the D-Pad will allow you to easily push the buttons.
I dunno...placing too many buttons may give options, but also can create sloppy and more importantly uncomfortable controls. The Wii had the problem already with 1 and 2 buttons being used but un-pressable. I want to eliminate that.
We will just have to see what Nintendo does...I am hoping for the classic controller Pro to just become the traditional controller Nintendo will use even with the Super Nintendo 6.
EDIT: But I am being overly argumentative and stifling ideas. I should stop. Really everyone that has posted has had great unique ideas that bring their own strengths and unique design choices to the table.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 10, 2010, 09:26:14 AM
On the Wii, it costs $100 for a Wii remote, nunchuck, Motion Plus, and a classic controller.
Just a minor point, Wii Remote Plus is the standard controller now. That eliminates $20 from your cost. Besides, any game that uses the Classic Controller doesn't use the Nunchuk at the same time (it would be impossible anyways since you can't have both plugged into the Wii Remote at the same time). On the name front, why wouldn't it be called Wii 2? The Wii has a stronger brand name among casuals than anything, so I think it would be easier to get them to buy the next system if they know it is the successor to the current one by just adding a "2" to it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 10, 2010, 11:01:32 AM
"On the name front, why wouldn't it be called Wii 2? The Wii has a stronger brand name among casuals than anything, so I think it would be easier to get them to buy the next system if they know it is the successor to the current one by just adding a "2" to it."
This is the exact reason for why I call the system the Wii 2. I mean if we call it the Super Wii or Wii 3HD or something then we run the risk of alienating the casuals. Hopefully they are smart enough to realize that the number 2 in "Wii 2" denotes a superior system to the current Wii.
More and more I find myself catching onto the idea of the Wii 2 having cartridge based games. Although I neve see it happening because the home consoles have evolved past cartridges, but I would be interested in how a cartridge slot would influence the size of the Wii 2.
As for the hard drive and other storage options, I love to be able to customize my consoles, so I would enjoy being able to hook up all storage options to the Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 10, 2010, 01:43:37 PM
@ Spak dash Spang ;)
I haven't used that controller either so I can't vouch for it's comfortability, but the X & O buttons were not part of the point I was trying to make by showing the pic. Just that a d-pad and joystick can co-exist on the nunchuck. Your not gonna be able to use both at the same time with out readjusting your thumb, but you can't do that on a standard controller either.
I might actually make a revision to my Nunchuck 2.0 design to include a d-pad and change the IR strip pattern. but I think the amount of buttons on the Wiimote was fine the way I originally did it.
@Adrock: your controller is waaaay too complex. too many buttons. Although who ever suggested the bean shaped buttons around the bottom half of the A button has a pretty good idea. I still think just adding a 3 and 4 button to make the sideways wiimote more SNES like would be the best way to go, but the 2 bean buttons(X & Y) give you 2 more button when using a pointer. That would also give you 6 buttons regardless of how you are holding the controller.
WiiChuck: A, B, X, Y, C & Z - you also have the d-pad(x2?) and the joystick.
Sidemote: A, B, 1, 2, 3 & 4 - and you still have the d-pad + X & Y(could be used as the up & down on the second d-pad from WiiChuck or as ZL & ZR from CC) if you want to reach.
Now you wouldn't really need a classic controller, other than you like the way it feels in your hand or want dual analog.
Re: Wii2 as a name. I doubt that's what they will call it, but calling it that now is just so we know we are talking about a successor system and not an upgraded revised system like WiiHD or PS3slim or the new Xbox360 revision 6.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 10, 2010, 05:25:08 PM
Just a minor point, Wii Remote Plus is the standard controller now. That eliminates $20 from your cost.
Yes and no. As of right now, only the Limited Edition Red Wii comes packed with Wii Remote Plus. It only eliminates the cost for people who don't have the old controllers.
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Besides, any game that uses the Classic Controller doesn't use the Nunchuk at the same time
That's besides the point. Everyone should have at least one nunchuck as it comes with the system. Not everyone has the Classic Controller which creates problems for 3rd party developers. For simplicity's sake, I think Nintendo should do away with the extras (besides the Balance Board).
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On the name front, why wouldn't it be called Wii 2? The Wii has a stronger brand name among casuals than anything, so I think it would be easier to get them to buy the next system if they know it is the successor to the current one by just adding a "2" to it.
True, but at the same time, to the hardcore crowd outside of Nintendo's own, the Wii brand name means shovelware, dated graphics, and gimmicky controls.
@Adrock: your controller is waaaay too complex. too many buttons.
Only if you think that 1/2/3/4 would be used in conjunction with A/B/X/Y which I don't. 8 face buttons is overkill so I agree in that sense. I should have clarified. My bad. I, personally, don't find 1 and 2 very comfortable to use in any set-up besides the sideways Wii remote as I feel like my thumb has to travel too far to be comfortable. Most games don't use 1 and 2 aside for auxiliary functions likes maps or menus.
I added 3 and 4 to give it more functionality. However, as I said in my last post, 1/2/3/4 could be axed entirely since the sideways set-up isn't wholly necessary. What you're left with, then, is essentially the Classic Controller split into 2 independent pieces with motions controls (and the analog stick in the primary position as it should be). That's ultimately what I would like to see.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 10, 2010, 05:43:16 PM
I think the simplest controller solution is to just pack the nunchuk, remote and classic controller with every system. The reason we get all the waggle crap is because the CC is optional. A dev cannot assume the player has one so they have to map functions that would be just a button on the CC to a gesture. If everyone has a CC then they'll just go with what works best for the specific game. Adding some extra buttons to the remote is a good idea but I don't think replacing the normal controller is a realistic solution. The controls will be compromised in some way. I don't think the two models are compatible enough. The second you start talking about workarounds like using the d-pad for buttons and you might as well be in waggle territory. Compromises and workarounds result in lousy controls.
Plus I really doubt that Sony will go with some sort of one-in-all hybrid for their next console. We'll probably get the DualShock with the Move as a seperate item. And odds are the Wii 2 will just compete with the PS3 and Xbox 360. I don't think we're getting a next gen from Sony or MS any time soon. So if the PS3 has the DualShock and the Move then the Wii 2 needs the CC and the remote or else we'll be getting inferior ports with crappy controls... or just nothing at all, like we get now. Computers used to only come with a keyboard, now they come with a keyboard and a mouse. The keyboard wasn't replaced, just complimented. I think Nintendo should go the same route with the Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 10, 2010, 08:00:16 PM
Who was talking about the d-pad as buttons?
I thought my Wiimote 2.0 looked really good and was very reasonable. The inclusion of some bean shaped buttons at the bottom of the A also give you all the buttons you as the CC while in Sidemote style except for the dual analog. That essentially makes the CC not necessary 75% of the time.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 10, 2010, 09:18:24 PM
Actually I think Nintendo needs to simplify.
I think 2 controllers is fair. So I propose Nintendo start treating the Wii remote and nunchuk for Wii 2.0 as a slngle controller unit. When you buy an extra controller you get both.
I have grown up playing games all my life, and I am not confused or baffled by several buttons on a controller, but I am getting frustrated with the amount of games that force you to use up to eight buttons just to play...and it isn't to add depth just complexity. When I see the classic controller of today, I am not wowed by its usefulness but actually saddened. So I understand why casuals view controllers with several buttons as confusing. And designing a controller with too many buttons, because you want to make sure you have all the buttons available for certain set ups is not the best solution.
I love the simple design of the Wii remote and nunchuk...it just works for the brain. I could not play if I had to waggle and move my character with the same hand. So having an additional Analog stick or slide controller useable with the remote just wouldn't work...but you can say sideways it will work for classic gaming...but try explaining that to developers or people looking at the controller trying to understand it for the first time.
Simple is better...and when the Wii remote was being critiqued the largest complaint was that just 2 more buttons would have been nice, because 1 and 2 were not well placed to use.
The D-Pad addition on the Nunchuk with motion plus controls seems to a good evolution now that I think about it. I think the D-Pad would never be used as a traditional D-Pad in that position, but could be used for additional buttons, and the classic D-Pad layout is understandable to people without feeling like more buttons.
I am not completely opposed to adding 1-4 buttons on the controller, I just don't see that it is necessary. But another evolution that does sound great that Adrock brought up is the analog trigger buttons with the digital click on the Wii Remote and one on the Nunchuk. Again this adds function without the appearance of complexity...adding usefulness without sacrificing design, which is very important when creating a controller. The Gamecube controller was one of the best designed controllers but it sacrificed usefulness for some games over design...you must be careful not to go the other way with the Wii 2.0
In the end, I like Ian's suggestion. Package the Wii 2.0 with a set of all the controllers. Let the consumer feel they are getting a deal and a full experience. 1 controller, 1 nunchuk and 1 classic controller. Then sell the new Wii remotes bundled in with the Nunchuk, make the price $10.00 less than Wii remote and Nunchuk purchased now. Then sell the classic controller buy itself. Most people will only need 2 classic controllers. Most people will only need 2 Wii remotes. So that brings full controls for the new system to $75ish? Right? That is the cost of one game, at least in the mind of the consumer.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 10, 2010, 11:30:07 PM
Sorry for the double post, and sorry for about to be somewhat contradicting post.
But I was thinking about Adrock's ideas, and I was thinking about design...and the complication is not adding more buttons...but designing it to work. I still don't think we need many new buttons.
However, if we wanted to attempt to a design that fits more of a classic controller on the Wii Remote and Nunchuk here is another idea...that is taken directly from Adrock's influence.
First, introducing the Slider from the Nintendo 3DS into the Wii remote instead of an analog stick, and replacing the traditional D-pad on the stick. I like that the slider fits the thumb nicely and should create a nice feel for movement, and be more flush with the Wii remote than an analog stick. This can give you analog control if you need it with motion based games.
Below that 4 bean shaped buttons in a circle are the A, B, X, Y of the controller. These buttons are small, and almost touching. The form a hollow circle in the center that will be a natural resting place for your thumb...and allow you to easily feel and press any button comfortably. I love the idea of having a nuetral place to put your thumb not over a button. Also these buttons are close enough together to press two buttons at the same time comfortably. Obviously pressing A,B or A, X together would be more comfortable than pressing diagonals together. That still leaves the normal trigger underneath relabeled the T button for Trigger. This can be an analog button with click function. We now have 5 Buttons in normal resting place...that are easily reachable while using the pointer feature as a secondary analog device.
Now on the other end of the Wii remote replacing the 1 and 2 button is...a D-Pad and a big A button. (What am I crazy?) No...this allows you to have a nice 4 button classic controller in the palm of your hands. However, this gives the controller a nice feel without buttons on both sides making the controller feel busy.
On the analog stick you can add D-Pad like I mentioned before and have the same buttons. This allows developers 7 buttons in normal play for controls. More than enough, and builds a classic controller that 75-80% of the time will be perfect.
Finally, you can still keep the port for classic controller support for traditionalists.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 10, 2010, 11:35:00 PM
Nintendo is in the best position to release a new console in financial terms. Sony and Microsoft are still hurting financially, so they will need a few more years to recooperate their loses, especielly Sony. Nintendo could release a new console and still have it fresh enough to make the PS360 look old and dated by comparison. I am looking at a reveal at E3 2011 after the 3DS has been released world wide (hopefully).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 11, 2010, 12:36:35 AM
I have grown up playing games all my life, and I am not confused or baffled by several buttons on a controller, but I am getting frustrated with the amount of games that force you to use up to eight buttons just to play...and it isn't to add depth just complexity.
Here's the thing though: You can choose to not purchase or even play those games and that's perfectly fine, BUT you still want to have those games on the console because it ultimately benefits you. Allow me to explain. Even if you don't want those games, others do and they shouldn't have to buy an extra peripheral for compatibility. The need to purchase additional hardware just to play a certain game already makes that version less appealing than the ones on competing consoles even if you only have to buy said peripheral once. Extra is extra. Furthermore, I feel like 3rd parties are more willing to experiment (as they did on DS) and provide the kinds of games you may be interested in IF they know their other games can also succeed. However, they shouldn't be forced into shoehorning motion controls or wrestling with fewer buttons if they don't want to and they certainly shouldn't feel like releasing their games on a console is a gamble because the userbase doesn't have all the tools already available. On the Wii, Nintendo intentionally put these obstacles in front of 3rd parties and they responded by shunning the Wii and supporting the console manufacturers who didn't try to dictate how their games should be made. You didn't have to worry about complex games because you got nothing instead.
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When I see the classic controller of today, I am not wowed by its usefulness but actually saddened. So I understand why casuals view controllers with several buttons as confusing. And designing a controller with too many buttons, because you want to make sure you have all the buttons available for certain set ups is not the best solution.
What about 3DS? No one is saying that's too complex or has too many buttons. It's one slider and two shoulder buttons from being the Classic Controller and I don't really think that's the difference maker.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 11, 2010, 01:29:13 AM
What would happen if third parties were suddenly successful on the Wii 2?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 11, 2010, 03:36:16 AM
Adrock: You make perfect points. Yes, I can avoid those games, and Nintendo did go too far in designing the Wii with limitions that upset developers. Again, Nintendo is known like Apple for shunning functionality for design...where most of the time it is diesign that is sacrificed for functionality.
I think that is the balance that needs to be made...and I actually think Nintendo had the right idea trying to go back to the basicas to simplify control. Unfortunately they went too far.
As I said in my later post, I think I am going too far with my limitations and instead of worrying about the number of buttons and unneccessary complexity...we should be focused on balancing function and design. The Nintendo DS and the Nintendo Wii Remote are a great place to do that.
The Nintendo DS, should be complicated, but it isn't really why not? I think the single D-Pad, 4 face buttons work well with the thumbs. People understand that. 4 directions and 4 buttons Your thumb only has 4 places each. Then the shoulder buttons naturally rest under your trigger fingers for natural position. those buttons become natural to press.
The Wii is literally better at this. Hold the Wii. your thumb rests on A and a trigger on B. You can't accidentally press the wrong button with the "right" finger. Then on the nunchuck your thumb naturally rests on an analog stick for direction which is very natural. Plus your trigger and middle finger rest on the other 2 buttons. You have a natural position for 2 button presses.
The Wii fails with the other buttons. 1 and 2 - and + and even the D-Pad are uncomfortably placed to use the controller in the default position.
The classic controller is a mess. Where do I put my fingers is not natural and often times changes per game, and even then I never feel my fingers have a natural resting place for the buttons...I can easily push the wrong buttons on games I am unfimilar with. Even the shoulder buttons have 2 buttons to press that don't use 2 separate fingers to press but only 1.
Going back to your idea I tried to think of an elegant design for the buttons to make a natural resting place for your thumb and present more functionality with a user friendly design. I think the bean shaped buttons does that well.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 11, 2010, 01:44:26 PM
I would like for Nintendo to replace the analog stick on the Wii nunchuck 2.0 with a slide pad similar to the one on the 3DS.
Here is how the Wii Shop Channel should be improved for the Wii 2:
Faster down load speeds
The shop channel should also include an interface similar to Amazon.com. I find a game that I am interested in buying, but I am not sure about it. So, I take advantage of the reviewer page, demos and demonstarion video to help me decide about my purchase.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 11, 2010, 05:36:01 PM
The classic controller is a mess. Where do I put my fingers is not natural and often times changes per game, and even then I never feel my fingers have a natural resting place for the buttons...I can easily push the wrong buttons on games I am unfimilar with. Even the shoulder buttons have 2 buttons to press that don't use 2 separate fingers to press but only 1.
I'm inclined to agree. I have both a Classic Controller and a Classic Controller Pro and I'm not a terribly big fan of either. Clearly, Nintendo didn't really take the design seriously or with any intention that it would be used regularly. It's a VC controller first and foremost, evidenced by the D-Pad in the primary left thumb position. I'm sure like most controllers, I could get used to it like I did with the Dual Shock but I have my issues with it.
Personally, I found the American SNES controller to be the pinnacle of controller design for its time. No other controller ever came as close to being perfect for the hardware it was on as that controller. By today's standards, it's limiting due to the lack of analog sticks and the Classic Controller seemed to ape off the SNES controller's design, but failed to do so. One of the most underrated controller innovations ever were the SNES's concave X/Y buttons. To my knowledge, this has never been duplicated by any console manufacturer, even Nintendo themselves, despite its ingenious simplicity. The Classic Controller differentiates A/B and X/Y by color like the SNES does, but each button feels exactly the same. On SNES, the convex and concave shape and feel gave the buttons distinction despite unfamiliarity. I prefer this over the bean shaped buttons because the Nintendo-pioneered cross button layout is standard and with good reason, it's the most balanced set-up for most genres.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 11, 2010, 05:47:57 PM
The six button Genesis pad (which, by the way, is way better than the SNES pad) also mixed convex and concave buttons.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 11, 2010, 05:50:48 PM
I didn't read all the posts, but when the Wii was announced and we were still speculating on it, I suggested that it have a projector inside so you wouldn't even need a T.V, and gives it a reason to be taken outside the home.
Nintendo tried the 'take your console to your friends house' with the GC's (some would say obtrusive) handle, and it didn't work. But with how small and common projectors are getting, and their ability to display 1080p we could have a WiiHD with projector. And projectors also have the ability to display 3D, but the question is; can Nintendo pioneer glasses-free projection 3D?
I would think if such technology was readily available movie studios would have adopted it already, but it would cool if Nintendo could develop (and possible patent) this technology.
Both the PS3 and 360 have gotten midlife facelifts, but the Wii has not, so is it due for one, or is Nintendo holding back to release its successor. Nintendo does like to surprise people (maybe just to boast at how well they can keep a secret) so it would be cool to see the next Wii (facelift or successor) at E3 2011 and it would be cooler yet if the 3DS was somehow the next Wii... I'm just saying.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 11, 2010, 05:57:37 PM
Both the PS3 and 360 have gotten midlife facelifts, but the Wii has not, so is it due for one, or is Nintendo holding back to release its successor. Nintendo does like to surprise people (maybe just to boast at how well they can keep a secret) so it would be cool to see the next Wii (facelift or successor) at E3 2011 and it would be cooler yet if the 3DS was somehow the next Wii... I'm just saying.
Nintendo hasn't released a major console facelift since the SNES, unless you count the Pikachu N64 which I don't. I believe they removed the digital AV output on Gamecube, but the size and shape remained unchanged. I'm sure Nintendo could refresh the console, but why? It's pretty small as is.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 11, 2010, 06:16:31 PM
Yeah, unlike the competition the Wii doesn't need to be smaller, it needs more power.
The N64 had the Expansion Pack, and the 64DDS (Im only like 90% sure that's what the disk playing attachment was called), and though they were only ever used for the GameBoy Player, and Broadband Adapter, the GC had those ports on the bottom that should have allowed for new tools like the 64 had.
While the Wii isn't necessarily built (who knows, maybe it is) to be expanded upon, a NeWii could be released that has the extra power, like DSi vs DS.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 11, 2010, 06:19:56 PM
To be honest, the Wiimote and nunchuck are fine the way there are, all Nintendo really needs to do is upgrade the motion sensing of the controller and sensor bar. I mean as long as it does not have that goofy looking orb like the PS Move then everything should be okay.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 11, 2010, 10:26:48 PM
Adrock: I agree the SNES controller maybe the best controller ever created. The buttons were placed well. And it just worked perfectly and felt great in the hand.
I am not a fan of 6 face buttons. They are great for fighters, but it is not natural feeling to move your thumb that much distance to play a game. And if you rest your thumb and use the middle buttons it still isn't intuitive. The 4 button face layout works perfect which is why it has become the standard. DS, SNES, PS, Xbox, Gamecube, classic controller...ect.
MaryJane: You just brought something interesting up...The Wii doesn't need more power, it needs more power and then talk about expansion.
I wonder is there a way, to communicate with the Wii in a way to wake it up from sleep mode? Basically plug the Wii into the Wii 2.0 for backwards compatibility. You can turn on your Wii 2.0 and have a classic Wii channel that wakes up your Wii and plays Wii games through the Wii on the Wii 2.0? It sounds needlessly complicated, but it would allow for quite a few options. Like, being able to transfer over virtual console games...or even not needing too. ect... And it could help keep the Wii 2.0 cost down but still allowing backwards compatibility to be marketed.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 12, 2010, 12:44:43 PM
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I think 2 controllers is fair. So I propose Nintendo start treating the Wii remote and nunchuk for Wii 2.0 as a slngle controller unit. When you buy an extra controller you get both.
I agree. This is how it should have been from the get-go. I'm pretty certain the two components were only sold seperately as a cash-grab.
I find it odd that some of you have problems with the CC. The layout is like a SNES controller. That's just second nature to me. It's also like the, dare I say it, Dualshock which again I'm quite used to (except for the shapes as buttons, I still struggle with that). I like how the SNES controller had the concave and convex buttons but it's not like I really used that to figure out what was what. It's only four buttons and they work like up, down, left, right. It was really easy for it to become second nature to me. The similarity between that setup and a d-pad is probably why it is so easy. It's very easy to think in that simple directional shape. Your d-pad, face buttons and twin analog sticks all use the same basic shape.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 12, 2010, 04:56:20 PM
Apparently Reggie believes that the Wii 2 is not necessary for holiday 2011. If so, I still have a strong feeling that Nintendo will reveal the Wii 2 at E3 2011 and hype it until 2012 and then release it some time that year. Christmas 2011 will most likely be the Wii's last year as Nintendo's major holiday home console.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 12, 2010, 05:40:30 PM
I wouldn't put too much stock in that. Reggie pushed that "DS is a 3rd pillar" nonsense and I believe he also said Super Mario Galaxy would be released within 6 months of the Wii launch. I'm sure there are many other examples. I don't think he's being devious. He's only allowed to say so much and he's not privy to everything from Kyoto.
Also, keep in mind he said "Wii 2 is not a must for next holiday" but he didn't say they weren't trying. Just like they wanted to launch 3DS this year, I'm sure Nintendo would LOVE to launch their next console in November. I think Nintendo knows they've pushed the Wii as far as they can and that sales have started to drop due to market saturation and paltry 3rd party support among other things. Additionally, Nintendo themselves have one major game announced for next year (Skyward Sword) in all major territories as well as smaller releases like The Last story and Xenoblade (which already came out in Japan) if they even localize those 2 games. That's a telling sign that the focus is shifting.
Considering many of Nintendo's development teams have recently (i.e. EAD Toyko with Galaxy 2) or will be launching new titles (i.e. Retro with DCKR), I wonder how strong Nintendo's launch could be late next year. At the same time, Software Development Group No. 4 has been quiet since New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Pikmin 3 is MIA for example. Getting ports of PS3/360 games could fill the lineup and inspire confidence in the platform early. I'd bet on a reveal at E3 without a promise of a release date though I believe they're pushing to launch next fall.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 12, 2010, 07:28:00 PM
For the exception of a handfull of titiles, is there any major titles from Nintendo or third parties past summer of 2011? Unless Nintendo has some new IPs or third party support rekindles then 2011 could be the last year of the Wii. But releasing the Wii 2 in 2011 would cannalbalize the 3DS and visa versa, right? What I expect to happen is that 3DS will be in all regions by the end of April next year, Skyward Sword will be out by summer and then another price cut for the Wii will announced for holiday 2011. Nintendo will spend the last two quarters of 2011 for hyping the Wii 2 for a release in 2012.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 12, 2010, 07:57:16 PM
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For the exception of a handfull of titiles, is there any major titles from Nintendo or third parties past summer of 2011?
Well third party is a wash. It's been a barren wasteland for years (hell I would argue it has been that the Wii's entire existence).
Meanwhile Nintendo is super secretive about future projects. We've had times before where around this time in the year it looked like there was squat for the next year. But it was just that Nintendo didn't announce it well in advance. They don't like keeping us filled in. That personally pisses me off and I see as insulting to their fanbase but that is what they've done for a while now.
So I don't think we can make a good prediction about when the Wii 2 is going to drop because it would not be unlike Nintendo to just drop something huge like that at some point next year, six months away from launch.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 12, 2010, 08:30:20 PM
But releasing the Wii 2 in 2011 would cannalbalize the 3DS and visa versa, right?
Not necessarily. Nintendo launched Gameboy Advance and Gamecube in 2001. Sales of the former didn't really affect the latter though we were living in much gentler economic times and GBA didn't cost a kidney and your first born child.
Meanwhile Nintendo is super secretive about future projects. We've had times before where around this time in the year it looked like there was squat for the next year. But it was just that Nintendo didn't announce it well in advance. They don't like keeping us filled in. That personally pisses me off and I see as insulting to their fanbase but that is what they've done for a while now.
Last year, they announced Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Other M, and Sin and Punishment while Kirby's Epic Yarn and Donkey Kong Country Returns were unveiled at E3 2010. I don't see that happening for the Wii next year. We have Zelda as the only definite. Unless Nintendo is planning on surprising us with Star Fox and F-Zero, Skyward Sword is looking like the console's swan song. It's hard to ask for a better game to go out on.
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So I don't think we can make a good prediction about when the Wii 2 is going to drop because it would not be unlike Nintendo to just drop something huge like that at some point next year, six months away from launch.
Nintendo announced DS in January 2004, unveiled it in May at E3, revealed the redesign in July, and launched in November 2004. They attempted on an even faster turn around with 3DS. Unless you're Michael Pachter, I think most of us can make an educated guess. November 2011 is a good prediction and there are a lot of telling signs pointing to it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 12, 2010, 08:45:54 PM
But releasing the Wii 2 in 2011 would cannalbalize the 3DS and visa versa, right?
Not necessarily. Nintendo launched Gameboy Advance and Gamecube in 2001. Sales of the former didn't really affect the latter though we were living in much gentler economic times and GBA didn't cost a kidney and your first born child.
The 3DS could be the reason Nintendo hasn't said anything about the next console, though. I don't think releasing them both next year would cannibalize sales, but you don't want to be talking about two upcoming systems at once. If Nintendo were planning a successor to the Wii for next holiday season but didn't have the 3DS launch coming soon, I think we'd have at least some info to go on at this point. The question is whether Nintendo's silence in that regard is because there's nothing to talk about, or because their media and PR focus right now is the 3DS and they want to stay on message.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 12, 2010, 09:25:03 PM
If Move and Kinect fail and some how third party support is rekindled then the Wii might have a stronger foundations going into 2012, but I do not see this happening. However, what ever happens with Move and Kinect will ultimatly decide whether thr Wii 2 gets revealed soon.
Is there any way the Wii 2 can be 3D like the 3DS? If not, could the 3DS help in any way?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 13, 2010, 09:04:46 AM
I don't think a new console and 3DS will cannibalize each other. They are very different markets. The 3DS is going to be huge when it hits for people wanting to play games on the go, and it is going to have a huge push from everyone that owns a DS. The Japanese market and children's market and anyone that if interested in 3D is going to jump on.
The next Nintendo console is going to be huge for console owners that like Nintendo, but also the casual market that is excited and satisfied about the Wii experience. Specially, if Nintendo does something great that proves Nintendo is still pushing the market forward. I believe 2011 is the BEST time for Nintendo to release a new console. As people are trying the PS3 Move and Kinect for the first time a lot of press and excitement for motion control is going to be pushed forward. Ride the wave. Show the Wii 2.0 during E3 2011 as the next advancement of motion control, and announce that it is coming early 2012.
I know holiday 2011 would be prime buy, I can see allowing the 3DS to have holiday 2011 and releasing the Wii 2.0 March 2012. I think holiday 2010 is the last big holiday for Nintendo Wii...look at what Nintendo is releasing this holiday...what do they really have for 2011? I think November 2011 would steal Microsoft and Sony's thunder.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 13, 2010, 11:20:31 AM
How much would the Wii 2 sell for in the west? I am betting on $299.99 since the HD consoles are selling that much and Nintendo has admitted that they could have charged more for the Wii. Also, since the Wii 2 is most likely going to be HD then the price can be justified.
Nintendo enjoys having an equlibrium between too cheap and too exspensive because they want to get their systems into your hands as quickly as possible and then resell you all their game series.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 13, 2010, 02:34:37 PM
i am betting against 299 because thats way too expensive. I think 250 for the wii was too expensive...i still bought it, but im thinking thats where the next system will be. As time goes buy, levels of tech at prices decrease. I think by now Nintendo can get a system made that is more powerful than the xbox360/ps3 made at a lower price. I don't expect it to be a gigantic leap though.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 13, 2010, 02:53:25 PM
i am betting against 299 because thats way too expensive. I think 250 for the wii was too expensive...i still bought it, but im thinking thats where the next system will be. As time goes buy, levels of tech at prices decrease. I think by now Nintendo can get a system made that is more powerful than the xbox360/ps3 made at a lower price. I don't expect it to be a gigantic leap though.
I heared a while back that Nintendo realized that they could have charged more for the Wii, but still could have stayed out of the PS360 price range at that time. Nintendo's investors played a hand in their pricing for the 3DS (in Japan) and it might very well happen again. I look for Sony and Microsoft to do another price drop soon ($50), but Nintendo would kick ass again if they released an HD Wii for $250.
As for the Wii in 2011, now would be a good time to spear head the RPG genre onto the console. This genre has been lacking since the Wii's launch and so now would be a good time. Hell, port over a couple of the PS2 RPGs to get the cycle wrolling and then release the bigger titles through the years.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Caterkiller on November 13, 2010, 02:55:04 PM
i am betting against 299 because thats way too expensive. I think 250 for the wii was too expensive...i still bought it, but im thinking thats where the next system will be. As time goes buy, levels of tech at prices decrease. I think by now Nintendo can get a system made that is more powerful than the xbox360/ps3 made at a lower price. I don't expect it to be a gigantic leap though.
Man I hope you're right. But after the 3DS announcement I can't see the home console being sold for the same price. Or maybe I can, if it doesn't sport brand new 3D on TV without glasses.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 13, 2010, 06:09:43 PM
i really dislike how people use the word HD like it means better graphics. HD is just a resolution. I dont want an HD wii, I want a new console with decent graphics that happens to support a higher resolutions with motion control that has mario and zelda.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 13, 2010, 07:46:23 PM
I am satisfied with the Wii's graphics, but I want the Wii 2 to be HD because third party support for the Wii is dying and HD graphics and horse power equivalent to the 360 is about the only thing that is going to kick start third party support again.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 13, 2010, 07:58:18 PM
I think Iwata already confirmed that there next home console (which I doubt will be released before fall 2012) will be HD, so there is nothing to worry about. Sony and Microsoft don't even require games to be in HD, although I realize some developers prefer it (like Hideo Kojima).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on November 13, 2010, 08:17:44 PM
Yeah, and the Wii will have Brawl for lunch.
Knowing Iwata, he probably just meant Highly Desirable. This far out, nobody can say anything for sure.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 13, 2010, 08:55:13 PM
I think Iwata already confirmed that there next home console (which I doubt will be released before fall 2012) will be HD, so there is nothing to worry about. Sony and Microsoft don't even require games to be in HD, although I realize some developers prefer it (like Hideo Kojima).
MS requires all games to be in atleast 720p, that's how it's been for a long time unless something just recently changed.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: SixthAngel on November 14, 2010, 01:12:46 AM
MS requires all games to be in atleast 720p, that's how it's been for a long time unless something just recently changed.
They don't really require that or maybe they just force it on 3rd parties. It wasn't long ago when Halo 3 was released and there were a bunch of people complaining because it wasn't 720.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on November 14, 2010, 06:45:57 AM
They did require that at launch. But I think they lifted the restriction after a while.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 14, 2010, 09:43:10 AM
Price, hmmm.
I see Nintendo going for a $300.00 price point. The trend in technology is to get a bigger better deal, at a higher price. Everyone is willing to pay more for the technology they like it seems. Do I want the Wii 2.0 to debut at $300? Not really, but I think it will.
$300.00 would be great if it was bundled properly. Pack in Game Wii Party Resort ( combines new Party games with some updated Wii Sports games online) One complete controller, and a classic controller would work wonders.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 14, 2010, 11:53:18 AM
I see Nintendo going for a $300.00 price point. The trend in technology is to get a bigger better deal, at a higher price. Everyone is willing to pay more for the technology they like it seems. Do I want the Wii 2.0 to debut at $300? Not really, but I think it will.
$300.00 would be great if it was bundled properly. Pack in Game Wii Party Resort ( combines new Party games with some updated Wii Sports games online) One complete controller, and a classic controller would work wonders.
Yeah, $300.00 is the ceiling for me when it comes to consoles. There is no way that I should pay more than that amount for any system regardless of features. I would rather wait two extra years and have the system cheap then expensive.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 14, 2010, 07:07:56 PM
ugh god.....$200 , i know Wii was 250, but it was also overpriced. I'd hate Nintendo to start trending towards expensive.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 14, 2010, 08:37:42 PM
Better prepare yourself to start hating then ;)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 15, 2010, 03:21:11 PM
What kind of hardware could Nintendo get out for $200? That's what the Wii costs now. So instead of a Gamecube 1.5 we get a Gamecube 1.7?
With console prices for me it's more like I just have a price limit. There is a line and if you cross it the console costs too much. But if you're below it all I give a **** about is what games you have available. If you made a serious trade off for price, it would not convince me to buy your console. I don't even think of the price, it just becomes bullet-points. If the $300 console has features A, B &C and the $200 console has only A & B and no option for C then the $300 wins out for me. It's below the line so all I'm looking at is what your console offers and you don't have C so you lose out. I don't care about the $100. The difference in price will be made up by the extra games the $300 console has but the $200 one doesn't because it is missing feature C.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 15, 2010, 04:45:37 PM
What kind of hardware could Nintendo get out for $200? That's what the Wii costs now. So instead of a Gamecube 1.5 we get a Gamecube 1.7?
It's what an Xbox 360 cost with a small profit margin. Just cause a Wii retails for $200 doesn't mean that's what it cost. I'm sure Nintendo is making Wiis for under $90-$100.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 15, 2010, 05:33:53 PM
It also depends on the chipsets Nintendo uses and just because the hardware is powerful, doesn't mean it's necessarily expensive. Gamecube's Flipper and Gekko were mighty impressive and Nintendo managed to make a slight profit even at launch.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 15, 2010, 08:10:52 PM
250 or 300 is pretty good price...and if you could get a Xb0x 360 (X1.5) like processor with about 512 to 1 GB RAM that would be a significant jump for the market.
I think the key is to not jump too high with processors, but to try and keep the system capable of receiving ports when eventually the new Xbox and PS3 come out...if they come out a year after the new Wii they will be more powerful...however perhaps if the RAM is high enough ports could still be possible. Plus, I don't see gaming graphics getting much better than they are now...only marginally better.
I know people are saying look at animated cartoons and CGI...but that takes hundreds of millions of dollars to create that level and it is too costly for gaming.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 15, 2010, 08:52:09 PM
I'm starting to think a big part of the reason Nintendo's holding off on this is to try not to give Sony and Microsoft the time to rip them off. I think Nintendo's ideal solution is to wait until after at least one of them announces their next console, and I think they'll do that unless the sales get too low.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 15, 2010, 09:13:18 PM
The problem with that theory is that this next gen is Nintendo's refinement generation. The Wii2 most likely won't be another revolution and be more of an evolution just as the GC was to the N64 and the SNES was to the NES.
As much as Nintendo would love to drag the Wii out as long as possible, there just don't think there will be enough software to support the hardware sales past 2011. Not from 1st party and certainly not from 3rd parties.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 15, 2010, 09:22:58 PM
In your opinion. People said the same thing last year and we got a lot of good Wii games this year.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 16, 2010, 12:51:35 AM
The Wii2 most likely won't be another revolution...
Another? Don't they need a first? /rimshot (http://instantrimshot.com/)
Quote
As much as Nintendo would love to drag the Wii out as long as possible, there just don't think there will be enough software to support the hardware sales past 2011. Not from 1st party and certainly not from 3rd parties.
Yeah, eventually resources have to shift to their next console. I think they've already started. Several of Nintendo's internal development teams have probably released their last Wii titles this year and last and are now working on 3DS and Wii 2 titles. We haven't heard from the Pikmin team since New Super Mario Bros. Wii came out. If Nintendo launches next November, Software Development Group No. 4 will have had 2 years or more to come up with something. Wishful thinking, but I'd love to see them get both Pikmin 3 and New Super Mario Bros. 3 out at launch.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 16, 2010, 07:55:51 AM
New Super Mario Bros 3 would be a perfect launch game...as would Pikmin 3 actually...or Star Fox.
Realistically I see Pikmin 3 being one of the last Nintendo Wii games. A nice swan song for the fans. However, I think that would be a bad move. It would be better to save that as the quirky launch game that sells millions because it is out at launch.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 16, 2010, 10:53:49 AM
Pikmin 3, WiiMusic 2, and Zelda Skyward Sword = 3, million sellers for Wii in 2011. It is FAR from dead.
The Wii is still selling strong, why would Nintendo stop that before it stops on it's own?
And while the 3DS won't adversely affect Wii(or Wii2) sales it could boost Wii sales, or have the momentum to carry Nintendo's finances through the 2011 holiday.
The Wii2 is not coming out in 2011 and if it does I will literally eat my shoe, record it and post it here. The vitality sensor is still yet to come out, and the Wii hasn't even seen a price cut yet! If Nintendo cuts the Wii to $99 and $149 for bundles in the 2011 holiday how many consoles do you imagine they would sell? I'm guessing a lot.
Launcing a new console is expensive and risky, what reason is there for Nintendo to take that leap? The Wii has outsold the PS3 every month this year (through September is all I could find quickly) and has even outsold the X360 a few months. Why are people saying it's time for a change? Just because it's not selling like last year, doesn't mean it's not doing well, it's just not selling astronomically anymore.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2010, 01:25:00 PM
Regarding the price the 3DS is rumoured to be as much as $300 or $250 at the very least. I really can't see Nintendo charging more for their portable then for their console so realistically whatever the 3DS's final price is, the Wii 2's will be higher or at best equal to it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 16, 2010, 02:00:53 PM
The Wii is still selling strong, why would Nintendo stop that before it stops on it's own?
Launcing a new console is expensive and risky, what reason is there for Nintendo to take that leap? The Wii has outsold the PS3 every month this year (through September is all I could find quickly) and has even outsold the X360 a few months. Why are people saying it's time for a change? Just because it's not selling like last year, doesn't mean it's not doing well, it's just not selling astronomically anymore.
It's called riding momentum and it's something you want to do before your existing audience starts moving on to the competition while the product your holding onto is starting to seem dated and unappealing. It's why there is a new iPhone every year. There are bigger and better phones coming out every 4-6 months and a new iPhone keeps the existing and fence sitting userbase wanting to get the iPhone.
By the end of 2011 there is not likely to be much as far as compelling software coming from Nintendo and 3rd parties have barely put in effort as it is, so I doubt things would change in 2011 or beyond.
Nintendo will want to release Wii2 on the back of the consumer goodwill that the Wii has before that tone shifts. It's not like the Wii is just gonna stop selling after the Wii2 goes on sale and the Wii will only become more appealing to those that haven't bought it yet because it has lots of room to drop the price, but the existing Wii may not continue to be so appealing to those that have already had it for years and are looking for new experiences that can be found on competing products.
Quote
The Wii2 is not coming out in 2011 and if it does I will literally eat my shoe, record it and post it here. The vitality sensor is still yet to come out, and the Wii hasn't even seen a price cut yet! If Nintendo cuts the Wii to $99 and $149 for bundles in the 2011 holiday how many consoles do you imagine they would sell? I'm guessing a lot.
we'll hold you to that should it come true, but can we go by FY 2011 and not just calender year 2011.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 16, 2010, 02:06:04 PM
I don't see Nintendo releasing a console early in the year the way they're doing it with the 3DS. If it's not Q4 2011, it's not coming until Q4 2012.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 16, 2010, 02:14:22 PM
That's the gamble we're taking on MJ eating his shoe for all of NWR to see.
If he doesn't see it happening at Q4 2011 and thinks it will only happen in Q4 of 2012 or 2013 then a FQ4 2011 won't make much of a difference in the timeline of things either.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on November 16, 2010, 02:22:05 PM
So 3DS and Zelda will already be out by then and Wii 2 may or may not be seen at all.
E3 prediction: Iwata dumps crates of money from the rafters for an hour straight.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 16, 2010, 02:44:35 PM
When is Zelda supposed to come out? has there been a date set or a timeframe or anything?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 16, 2010, 03:07:01 PM
Lol BnM, I think it's possible for Wii2 to launch in March 2012 so the shoe eating is only for Jan - Dec 2011.
I get the momentum argument, but I (and apparently Iwata and Reggie) think the Wiis momentum can continue for a few more years especially through 2011.
You posted somewhere about how important the holiday season is to Nintendo. Even if this holiday season is abysmal for them (which is highly unlikely) they would probably need two bad holiday seasons to be convinced the Wii ride is over, and with Zelda and 3DS still to come I can't see how the 2011 holiday wouldn't be a good one for Nintendo.
I know Nintendo hasn't said anything about but they HAVE to be looking at some kind of 3DS/Wii integration, like using the 3DS as a controller that displays extra content in 3D or being able to use some of the new weapons/swords/tunics in Skyward Swords in OoT 3D or some similar type of game interactions. If the 3DS is half as popular as the DS any interaction between it and the Wii will boost Wii sales if even slightly, and with how well it's selling Nintendo might only need slight boost to wait until 2013 to launch the Wii2. I'm hoping it's 2012 but 2013 is possible if their 3rd party support gets a big boost which will be evidenced or dismissed at E3 2011. Even if dismissed, the Wii has enough momentum to carry it through 2011 which is only a month away and only lasts for 12, a pretty short time in the console world. Not so much in the smartphone world, because, as you said, the multiple sources of competition demand quick shifts. But Sony and MS are in no position to release new consoles that are significant improvements over their current offerings, they can only offer peripherals and small upgrades, which Nintendo is also capable of doing.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 16, 2010, 03:29:12 PM
We should revisit the Wii momentum argument after Xmas sales are released and then again after the 3DS is released. All eyes on 3DS, big sales for 3DS, all games directed at Nintendo being made for 3DS. E3 will be heavily focused on 3DS as I just don't think there is much steam left in the Wii sales.
You are also banking on Zelda being the Holiday 2011 Wii Saver, but I still think it's possible that Skyward Sword gets the Twilight Princess treatment and also becomes a Wii2 launch title.
Re: the competition thing. Sony & MS don't have to really release anything different than what they have because the Wii begins to look old and PS3/360 have better graphics, better online, motion controls and all those other games that they haven't played yet. If Nintendo puts most of it's focus on 3DS outside of Zelda and a small handful of titles, then that is all there will be worth mentioning for Wii as most 3rd parties have never bothered and the rest will have mostly moved on to the 3DS.
as afar as connectivity is concerned, I think it's too late for Wii integration, the system just isn't flexible enough to do anything all that cool with an adoption rate that would make a difference. Selling the Wii2 on the HYPE of 3DS integration though would be much more effective as it would be something planned from the start and make the Wii2 and 3DS a paired purchase for those interested in the potential.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 16, 2010, 05:53:25 PM
Nintendo is most likely going to revitalize integration between consoles and handhelds with the 3DS and Wii 2. A good way to this would be, for example, using the 3DS to pilot a Unmanned Arial Vehicule (UAV) for Call of Duty on the Wii 2 to take out a target within the console game.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 16, 2010, 06:13:10 PM
I think it's safe to say that no matter what timeframe you figure the Wii 2 is going to be released the Wii has more years behind it then it does in front. The Wii 2 is coming. I think integration with the 3DS is largely a waste of time because I don't figure the two systems will co-exist as the current Nintendo systems for very long. I'm guessing maybe two years at the absolute maximum. It doesn't seem worth it.
The Wii is also not going to go up from here. Any idea of the third party support getting better is delusional fantasy. It's a lost cause. Third parties will never show any interest in the Wii. That problem will only be solved with a new console. Wii sales will not go up. That's not even a bash on the Wii. The Wii is incredibly popular but that's the thing - everyone who wants one has one. The DS was also incredibly successful and its sales have leveled off, not because people don't like it but because they love it so the market is saturated. I can't see any sort of big game suddenly spiking Wii sales.
This is just anecdotal evidence but every day I go on videogame boards and encounter someone saying that they're getting Kinect because their wife or girlfriend or kid are all nutso over that dance game. Yes, that is anecdotal but I didn't encounter that with Move. There wasn't even the slightest suggestion of a casual frenzy regarding Move. But Kinect is getting a bit of that. I'm observing non-gamers talking about it like I did with the Wii.
Microsoft has stated that they are treating Kinect as their next generation. If Kinect is successful then the Xbox 360 is the Wii 2's competitor. There is no next gen Xbox that Nintendo can wait it out for. The next gen is already here. Now MS has a bit of a safety net that if Kinect falls into obscurity over the next year they can retroactively declare that as not the next gen and try again. But at the very least it is an attempt to go next gen.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ShyGuy on November 16, 2010, 06:44:52 PM
I think Kinect will be a shorter "fad" than the Wii was.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on November 16, 2010, 07:24:24 PM
I think the Wii 2 won't launch in 2011 for two reasons:
1. The 3DS is going to have a huge Christmas that year and unnecessarily competing with your own hardware, for what ever reason, is idiotic.
2. The Wii still has plenty of room for price drops. The GC went down to $99 before the Wii was announced. This was due to slumping sales. Who says the Wii can't do the same for the same reason? My guess is that they'll announce a price drop and new bundle package at E3. Yes, this will compete with the 3DS but not as significantly as a Wii 2 would.
My guess? The Wii 2 will be announced at E3 2012 and then released in November.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 16, 2010, 07:26:02 PM
I can see giving Nintendo Wii one last holiday. I actually think it will happen that way. I think there is enough momentum to carry the Wii throughout 2011. However, I think we will only be seeing 3-4 releases for the Wii from Nintendo during that time. Zelda, Wiimusic +, Pikmin 3 perhaps.
I think Microsoft and Sony are locked through 2012 with their current systems. Specially, after the motion controls investment...unless they both think they can just carry those devices and games into the next generation...which I don't think they can. Holiday 2012 is when we will see the next consoles from MS and Sony.
I think a March 2012 launch of the Wii 2.0 would be a fantastic strategy. The system would be out on the market for 7-8 months before the competition. However, it could still easily have hardware similar enough to allow ports, and not enough time for the others to copy what Nintendo is doing. It also means that 3rd parities will not have to compete as much with holiday system sells, that many gamers will have their money ready for just buying new games.
I look at the 3DS launch as brilliant. We know the PSP2 is coming out....probably holiday 2011. Nintendo is getting a jump on Sony and riding their momentum strong. Nintendo Wii's last year shoud be its 5th year. Nintendo can drop the price of the system to like what you said in March, or offer some great bundles. But realistically, Nintendo forced itself into a smaller console cycle by limited design and power of the Wii.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 16, 2010, 07:36:40 PM
Ubisoft's Just Dance is doing pretty well on the Wii, Goldeneye will likely sell well, Epic Mickey is a great exclusive, NBA Jam is looking decent, and Rock Band/Guitar Hero do best on Wii. 3rd party support is far from dead on Wii, hell we even got the latest COD on the same day as the other systems ;).
The Wii has two advantages over the Kinetic and (especially) Move. 1. Numbers 2. Developer familiarity
Developers are not only figuring out what games to release on Wii, but how to make those games make better use of the 'waggle'. Hopefully we start seeing truly in-depth games (like Epic Mickey) that use waggle intuitively. In Twilight Princess the waggle parts were at first cool and novel then by the end of the game I wanted to plug in my GC controller, it didn't add anything to gameplay. I'm hoping Skyward Sword corrects that. And I think 3rd parties have gotten the message that they need to make Nintendo-like games (in terms of quality, fun/intriguing gameplay, and even nostalgia) in order to sell well on the Wii.
On a side note I think the Kinect is great because you can potentially do great things with it like let's say you're playing a fight game and your in a grapple mashing buttons to get out, and performing a natural reaction, like standing, gets you out of it. Then there's the fact that this is a test for Microsoft wanting to pioneer a Minority Report type of computer interface which could really cool.
The Move is waggle without a 30 million user base, and can be weakened by your lighting set up, I don't see it doing well, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on November 16, 2010, 07:38:56 PM
Spak - I actually think the 3DS fucked up it's time tables. It should have been out this year, i.e., now. But due to not enough inventory, we have to wait till March. Which is fine, but the move wasn't made with strategy in mind. Just that it would be pointless to launch with nothing to sell through.
Launching the Wii 2 at that time (March 2012) wouldn't be strategic, but for a different reason. You want to show off the Wii 2 at E3 always. But if you announce it next year, you take away from the 3DS (i.e. reason 1) and the last games for the Wii (e.g. Skyward Sword). It's just not smart.
Wait till 2012 and have a huge unveiling of the Wii 2; announce the price of the system and date it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 16, 2010, 07:48:49 PM
We could see a teaser video for the Wii2 at E3 2011 like the 64Marios for the N64 or 3D Zelda for GC videos we got that never actually panned out into actual games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 16, 2010, 07:55:09 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one that isn't against the idea of a FY2011 (before end of March 2012) Wii2 launch.
One thing people in here don't seem to realize is how anorexic the Wii release schedule is, specifically in Japan, even when compared to the PSP. There is no more software support for the system outside of a few notables and it's been that way for quite some time already. The Wii HYPE train is already running on fumes and by the time 2011 is over, lots of current Wii owners will likely be ready to move on (if they aren't/haven't already) since there is nothing new coming over the horizon for the Wii.
Spak - I actually think the 3DS fucked up it's time tables. It should have been out this year, i.e., now. But due to not enough inventory, we have to wait till March. Which is fine, but the move wasn't made with strategy in mind. Just that it would be pointless to launch with nothing to sell through.
Launching the Wii 2 at that time (March 2012) wouldn't be strategic, but for a different reason. You want to show off the Wii 2 at E3 always. But if you announce it next year, you take away from the 3DS (i.e. reason 1) and the last games for the Wii (e.g. Skyward Sword). It's just not smart.
Wait till 2012 and have a huge unveiling of the Wii 2; announce the price of the system and date it.
I think the new 3DS time table does throw things off a bit, but you can think of it as a testbed for a new time table. 3DS will have the limelight come Xmas 2011 and Wii "will" have it's final holiday as the primary home system for Nintendo.
And announcing it at E3 or TGS or whatever won't really matter because only the hardcore/enthusiast are really paying attention and only the hardcore/enthusiast will be lining up in early 2012 to buy it.The 3DS will have ALL the marketing going into the holiday season and the only place you will hear about the Wii2 will be on the internet and gaming magazines. The mass majority of consumers will be aware of only the 3DS because of the constant barrage of HYPE from people that already own it and commercials shoving it down your throat. A Wii2 announcement or reveal 6 months ago will not matter to people trying to buy Xmas presents now because the Wii2 is not available for purchase.
The "Big Blowout" could be at CES if that's what is needed.
Sounds like a perfectly good plan to me should that be what Nintendo is up to.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on November 16, 2010, 08:13:19 PM
I can see them launching the system in March, but I'm saying it's not likely. Maybe the E3 reason wasn't the best, but how about this? Nintendo pissed off investors by not launching the 3DS this year. Only if it some how works out as a brilliant strategic move for releasing it late, I don't see them launching the Wii 2 in March. Q4 2011 is more likely to me, but Q4 2012 is what I have my chips on.
And E3 hugely important because it's like the ComicCon of the gaming world. It hypes up the geeks who in turn hype up regular people.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 16, 2010, 08:19:56 PM
It's in Nintendo's best interest to have space between the two hardware launches. It would allow them to give more first party support to each of them early on, as well as allowing third parties more time with devkits before launch and giving them time to react to success on the 3DS with increased support on the Wii 2. It would also give people time between the highly priced 3DS and the presumably more (or at least as) expensive Wii 2, which could lead to increased sales of the Wii 2 early on. They could do the big reveal somewhere else, but they obviously would prefer to do it at E3.
Wanting to get it out before the competition makes some sense, but they did that with the DS, and it didn't do them any favors because there was next to no quality software for the better part of a year and the hardware needed a major overhaul before it really started selling. The Wii, on the other hand, was the last current generation console to launch, and that doesn't seem to have hurt it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 16, 2010, 10:10:20 PM
The 3DS gives me a lot of hope for the Wii2. The original DS had the defining feature of two screens, and a novel (for videogames) input system in its touchscreen. Nintendo was able to take that, and make it's successor just as or even more exciting with the implementation of 3D. So how will Nintendo not only improve upon but make better/more exciting, what they have started with the Wii?
Besides that, 2011 is just too early to launch, and since the 3DS has accelerometers along with two rear facing cameras and some sort of IR device, it seems completely plausible that it could work with the Wii as a controller. And it could use wifi or bluetooth to transfer things between systems, the Wii is plenty flexible enough to work with the 3DS, and if it isn't, a firmware update fixes that.
Also, how many 1st party games came out for the Wii this year? Why is 3 or 4 scarce next year scarce?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 16, 2010, 10:57:12 PM
I don't think Nintendo screwed up the 3DS timeline. Nintendo looked at everything and changed their current ideal launch. Screwed up means that the launch is going to be hurt by the new timeline, which I think it won't. Also, who cares about crying shareholders. Of course they are going to want to get the system out sooner...that doesn't mean it is the best course of action. The Nintendo DS has had a fantastic run, and giving it another holiday and allowing gamers who bought a DSi XL to feel better about their purchase is a good thing.
2011 is definitely the Wiis last year. Whether that means early 2012 launch or late 2011 launch is yet to be seen. But, I predict by September 2011 we have seen some form or information about the Wii 2.0, and I expect that developers may be getting early development kits at E3 in 2011. Of course everything will be NDAed.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on November 16, 2010, 11:17:02 PM
The Wii2 is not coming out in 2011 and if it does I will literally eat my shoe, record it and post it here.
Sign me up for this. If Nintendo launches a new home system in 2011, I will personally eat MaryJane's other shoe. What would he do with one shoe anyway?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on November 16, 2010, 11:41:06 PM
Spak - It's not my personal opinion that they screwed up. It was supposed to be launched by now. It didn't; hence the screw up.
As for 2011's the last year for the Wii. I still don't think so.
I know the Wii will look incredibly outdated in Fall 2012 considering that Move and Kinect would have been out for two years, but having a Wii 2 and 3DS Fall 2011 is too cluttered.
The most logical place to put the Wii 2 launch is in early 2012 simply because they screwed themselves by not having the 3DS ready for this winter.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 17, 2010, 12:28:16 AM
The 3DS is going to have a huge Christmas that year and unnecessarily competing with your own hardware, for what ever reason, is idiotic.
Nintendo has competed with its own hardware everyday for the past 21 years. Since the Gameboy, Nintendo has always marketed and sold a handheld and home console at the same time. It's worked out especially well for them thus far. Nintendo even launched both Gamecube and Gameboy Advance in 2001 so there's precedence for Nintendo launching 2 brand new pieces of hardware in the same year.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on November 17, 2010, 12:58:01 AM
That's a good point.
I still think they'd rather have a 3DS/Wii christmas than a 3DS/Wii 2 one.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on November 17, 2010, 01:30:54 AM
Nintendo needed to launch the GameCube and GBA though because the PS2 was out, the XBox was on the way, and the Nintendo 64 was selling poorly. At this point, they don't need to launch their next system in the same year as a new handheld because they are not desperate for a hot product like they were in 2001.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 17, 2010, 12:15:18 PM
The 3DS would have only been out in Japan by now, and the U.S date probably would be the same, so for me the delay is no big deal. Though I suppose having it in actual consumers hands would boost its perception, their supply must have been really low if they didn't want a repeat of the Wii where it was constantly sold out, and constantly making headlines because of that fact. The American news media is going to be all over the 3DS next year. CNN has already mentioned it twice in passing and MSNBC once (that I've heard) when talking about other 3D devices, and CNN.com and the bottom of the screen news ticker on CNN even reported on the fact that it was delayed; 3DS will be instant news fodder.
Just as Sony and MS have upgraded their consoles with peripherals to extend their life, so Nintendo can do. If the Wii drops to $99 the cost of a Wii+3DS (at $250) is the same price as 360+Kinect. It may even be possible to do the Kinect thing with the 3DS's cameras and IR. I said this just a couple posts ago, but Nintendo HAS to be looking at connectivity between the two systems, especially in light of them wanting to extend the Wii's life cycle.
This is just wishful thinking, but what if the 3DS could connect to the Wii so they can share processing power? That would be pretty awesome.
@Mop I'm 99.9999999999997% sure I won't be eating my shoe, but if I do I'll mail you the other one. 2011 is just way too soon to launch.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 17, 2010, 01:51:32 PM
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Developers are not only figuring out what games to release on Wii, but how to make those games make better use of the 'waggle'.
Developers are ignoring the **** out of the Wii. No one is making better use of waggle. Even Nintendo isn't. It's the same "replace a button press with a gesture" bullshit that Twilight Princess introduced. Super Mario Galaxy 2 has it. DKC Returns has it. Most devs just release junk on the Wii if they release anything at all and it is not improving. EA just took a Wii exclusive in NBA Jam and not only eventually turned it into a multiplatform release but the Wii version is actually the WORST version because it lacks the online play the others have. And they've released the standard "boy our Wii sales are the shits" press release.
So there is no real developer familiarity with the Wii. Those that make shovelware **** for the Wii have as much useful experience with it that, like with Move and Kinect, they might as well be starting fresh. Hell Nintendo made that mistaken assumption with the Wii in the first place. They acted like the similarity to the Gamecube would help attract support except that the Cube was a flop so no one developed for it. There was no familiarity.
You know what devs are familiar with? Unreal Engine 3. The Wii doesn't have it and that is probably the number one reason why it gets jack **** for support. The PS3 and Xbox 360 both have it, devs are familiar with it, and it makes it easier for them to port between the two systems. The Wii isn't going to suddenly get it and turn everything around.
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Also, how many 1st party games came out for the Wii this year? Why is 3 or 4 scarce next year scarce?
Because with third party support the way it is 3 or 4 first party games in a year pretty much means 3 or 4 decent games PERIOD for the year. Even if there is a good third party game or two you could end up with maybe 6 games that are worth a ****... for the whole year. The PS3 and X360 can give you that many good games in a month if it's around Christmas. This is the whole N64 release schedule all over again where you wait months between releases. That's not the sort of release schedule that lets you hold off on the next gen for a little longer. That's a "the second we can replace this dying system, we're doing it" kind of release schedule.
How long until the rest of the world realizes the Wii has all these problems that core gamers noticed on day one? That has always been the big threat. I predict that when the Wii falls out of public favour it will fall HUGE and Nintendo needs to get the Wii 2 out there before that happens.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 17, 2010, 06:13:05 PM
Nintendo needed to launch the GameCube and GBA though because the PS2 was out, the XBox was on the way, and the Nintendo 64 was selling poorly. At this point, they don't need to launch their next system in the same year as a new handheld because they are not desperate for a hot product like they were in 2001.
Necessity and desperation have nothing to do with the fact that Nintendo would rather not miss the holiday season unless they absolutely have to. People spend more then spend significantly less in the following months, partly because they just spent so much and are allowing their poor butt-hurt bank accounts to sit on their proverbial inflatable donuts. Nintendo isn't in some dire need of meeting a Q4 2011 launch. However, releasing a product when consumers are far more willing to spend money obviously makes more sense than releasing a product after people have spent a lot of money. Nintendo should only pass on launching the successor to the Wii next year if they have literally no strong 1st or 3rd party title to launch with. They should though, even if it means 1 major 1st party killer app (i.e. Mario) and same day ports of 3rd party 360/PS3 games. It establishes the console as a hot, must-buy item while also taking sales away from the competition.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on November 17, 2010, 06:17:23 PM
That's why holiday 2012 (or beyond) is when they'll launch their next home system. This gives the 3DS a comfy holiday by itself, and allows Zelda Skyward Sword to become a holiday hit too.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 17, 2010, 08:29:36 PM
Apple has proven that people will buy a product whenever it is released if they want it. They don't launch their new iphones at Christmas...they launch them mid year. Why is that? Because they know people want to buy new iphones. The 3DS is compelling and people want to buy it...March will be fine and will sell the 3DS throughout the year. Why is it hard to believe that Nintendo can't do that for the Wii 2.0 in March?
I know Christmas is the golden months of selling, but it is also the highest competition as well. I also do not believe that Sony and Microsoft are looking at Move and Kinect to extend their life cycle much more. Both hardware can be easily taken from the current generation into the next generation...specially Kinect which might get a boost in performance if the new console is built for better support of the device. So to me Nintendo can't assume that MS and Sony won't launch a new system in 2012. In fact, if I was Nintendo I would assume that they are targeting that holiday season...and if that was the case, I want my system out first...I don't want to compete with 2 other consoles on the market.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 17, 2010, 09:43:15 PM
I don't think the Wii 2 is coming before fall 2012, but I'd be much more surprised at an early-2012 release than a late-2011 release. Furthermore, I think part of the reason we're seeing the 3DS early next year instead of in the holiday season of next year is that Nintendo wants more space between it and their planned holiday 2012 Wii 2 launch.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 17, 2010, 10:08:21 PM
I don't think the Wii 2 is coming before fall 2012, but I'd be much more surprised at an early-2012 release than a late-2011 release. Furthermore, I think part of the reason we're seeing the 3DS early next year instead of in the holiday season of next year is that Nintendo wants more space between it and their planned holiday 2012 Wii 2 launch.
Wut? so now you think 3DS was gonna be delayed till Xmas 2011 because they missed the Xmas 2010 window? You really think Nintendo at some point thought that they might delay 3DS for a whole year just to put it in the Xmas window of the following year, but at the last minute opted against that to put more space between that and the Wii2?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 17, 2010, 10:17:31 PM
I'm saying Nintendo may have considered holding back on the 3DS until holiday 2011, not that they ever intended to do so. The DS is still selling, better than the Wii, and with better third party support. A holiday release gives you a higher profile and a better launch software lineup. Of course, that argument could also be used to support the idea of an early 2012 Wii 2 launch.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 17, 2010, 10:56:20 PM
That's why holiday 2012 (or beyond) is when they'll launch their next home system. This gives the 3DS a comfy holiday by itself, and allows Zelda Skyward Sword to become a holiday hit too.
3DS doesn't need a holiday by itself. I don't know where this line of thinking is coming from. As I've already said, Nintendo competes with itself everyday. Consumers are capable of buying both and have been doing so for the past 4 years.
Apple has proven that people will buy a product whenever it is released if they want it. They don't launch their new iphones at Christmas...they launch them mid year. Why is that? Because they know people want to buy new iphones.
... and because AT&T let hundreds of thousands of people renew 6 months early just for the iPhone 4. Riddle me this, Batman, why do so many of the biggest games and most new hardware launches happen before the holiday season? Why did Nintendo's shares drop and investors groan when Nintendo announced 3DS was missing the holiday season?
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The 3DS is compelling and people want to buy it...March will be fine and will sell the 3DS throughout the year. Why is it hard to believe that Nintendo can't do that for the Wii 2.0 in March?
Wii 2 is a harder sell. Nintendo has to have something compelling enough to re-attract casual gamers because a prettier Wii Sports won't hack it. They need to convince core gamers that Wii 2 won't be a joke for them this time which includes convincing 3rd parties to care as much as they care about PS3/360. 3DS has none of these issues. It's getting tons of support and is the successor of the most popular handheld ever across all audiences. On top of that, Nintendo's competition in the handheld market is basically just Sony. That's like picking on the smelly kid in school.
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In fact, if I was Nintendo I would assume that they are targeting that holiday season...and if that was the case, I want my system out first...I don't want to compete with 2 other consoles on the market.
Exactly. And why wouldn't Nintendo want a whole holiday season head start?
That's why holiday 2012 (or beyond) is when they'll launch their next home system. This gives the 3DS a comfy holiday by itself, and allows Zelda Skyward Sword to become a holiday hit too.
3DS doesn't need a holiday by itself. I don't know where this line of thinking is coming from. As I've already said, Nintendo competes with itself everyday. Consumers are capable of buying both and have been doing so for the past 4 years.
To establish a relatively large userbase from the outset.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 17, 2010, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Adrock
Riddle me this, Batman, why do so many of the biggest games and most new hardware launches happen before the holiday season? Why did Nintendo's shares drop and investors groan when Nintendo announced 3DS was missing the holiday season?
3DS will sell out at launch regardless of what time of the year it is. Investors groaned at missing the Xmas season because Xmas season is the biggest shopping season of the year and they want to see a return on investment now and later, not just later and... laterer.
I see no issues with 3DS first holiday coinciding with the Wii2 launch other than Nintendo feeling the time period too packed with NEW system advertisements, but I also don't see why a post Xmas early 2012 launch would be off the books either if the 3DS launch is a success. You get a 9 month headstart heading into the holidays to build up hype, straighten out supply issues and get past the craptacular launch games. If it works for 3DS, I don't see why Nintendo would have an issue trying it out for Wii2 if that's the way the cards needed to be played.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 18, 2010, 12:20:52 AM
To establish a relatively large userbase from the outset.
Sigh. "As I've already said, Nintendo competes with itself everyday. Consumers are capable of buying both and have been doing so for the past 4 years." Wii 2 launching the same year wouldn't affect 3DS at all for the reason stated above.
3DS will sell out at launch regardless of what time of the year it is. Investors groaned at missing the Xmas season because Xmas season is the biggest shopping season of the year and they want to see a return on investment now and later, not just later and... laterer.
Obvi.
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I see no issues with 3DS first holiday coinciding with the Wii2 launch other than Nintendo feeling the time period too packed with NEW system advertisements, but I also don't see why a post Xmas early 2012 launch would be off the books either if the 3DS launch is a success. You get a 9 month headstart heading into the holidays to build up hype, straighten out supply issues and get past the craptacular launch games. If it works for 3DS, I don't see why Nintendo would have an issue trying it out for Wii2 if that's the way the cards needed to be played.
I agree though I wouldn't use 3DS as a measure of how Wii 2 may fair. The DS brand is a beast that rapes and murders everything unfortunate enough to be in its path. The Wii isn't quite the indestructible force of nature.
Anyway, I never said Nintendo absolutely must launch Wii 2 Q4 2011. In fact, my exact words were: Nintendo isn't in some dire need of meeting a Q4 2011 launch. They can afford to miss it and, in fact, should if the lineup is weak and the supply is egregiously low. However, I doubt Nintendo wants to miss next holiday season for obvious reasons and they'll avoid it if they can. There are more benefits to launching in late 2011 than anytime in 2012.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on November 18, 2010, 12:48:01 AM
The DS got a two-year head start though so it wasn't taking nearly as much away from the Wii as it could have if they launched in the same year. I doubt anyone bought a Wii and DS in one store trip.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 18, 2010, 12:49:14 AM
Even if Nintendo wanted to launch holiday 2011, I don't think they could hit that target. At this point last year Nintendo was most likely aiming for holiday 2010 launches for the 3DS and Zelda, and didn't hit either of them. That means they're already stretched thin and behind schedule. Also, for a late 2011 launch, there would have to be devkits out in the wild by now, and even though Nintendo's pretty good at keeping the lid on things, I would think we'd have heard something about that from somewhere.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 18, 2010, 09:50:13 AM
@Ian So because NBA Jam is no longer exclusive 3rd party support is dead?? What about Goldeneye? What about Just Dance? What about the fact that EA blatantly shows people using a Wiimote for BOTH of it's vitality sensor games? And since E3 is in June and none of us are industry insiders, how do you know what is planned for 2011 concerning 3rd party support?
The 3DS is coming out when it is because the PSP2 is coming out for the 2011 holiday season. Nintendo probably aimed for 2010 holiday just to get a full year's head start, but 9-10 months is still good. Did you notice how soon after the 3DS 'leak' and reveal that Sony starts letting info about the PSP2 come out? These guys know what each other are doing for the most part. The PSP has been getting some good games recrently that sometimes propel past the DS for sales, and the PSP2 is going to be a technological monster, and according to a Sony interview is almost certainly going to be a game playing tablet, which will expand it's market to people who also are looking to get a tablet. Even the new Nook from Barnes & Noble is going to be a tablet/eReader, that is where the industry is heading, and Nintendo needs space between the 3DS and PSP2 so that people can report that the 3D aspect not only works, but is practical enough to be the reason for buying the system.
The Wii2 is going to have some feature unique feature that the competition won't have. The N64 had analog, the GC had power (before the Xbox came out) and size/possible portability and the Wii had it's controller. Unlike Sony and MS Nintendo doesn't just simply release more powerful hardware, so it's foolish to assume that the Wii2 won't have so a feature that draws people to it and away from the competition.
Sony and MS would be hard pressed to release new console sooner than 2013. Improving the graphics would mean taking them to movie CGI levels, and similarly taking game development budgets to near movie levels as someone suggested before.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 18, 2010, 01:00:48 PM
So now Nintendo is releasing the 3DS as a reactionary move to the PSP2 and not because even their own developers have felt that they have done all they can with the DS and would like some more powerful hardware with new capabilities to allow them to create the games that they want to continue to make.
and by saying that the 3DS is reactionary to the PSP2, that would also mean that the PSP2 is infact the system to beat and therefore dictates when the competition should be ready to play catch up.
Nintendo doesn't give a damn about the PSP2 just like they didn't really give a damn about the PSP. I think the only favor the PSP did for us Nintendo fans, was get Nintendo to redesign that ugly ducking DSPhat into the much sleeker DSLite, but other than that I don't think Nintendo was all that worried about what was going on with the PSP. If anything the PSP2 is happy that the 3DS isn't being delayed into the next holiday season since I doubt Sony wants to go head to head with the 3DS launch and would rather get that launch frenzy over with long before PSP2 hits shelves.
Any I know you've seen the dev prototype of the PSP2(assuming that the leaked pics are as legit as the leaked PS3slim pics were) so we all know that PSP2 is not a tablet. That's not to say that there might not be a tablet version in the future, but from what we seen, that is not what they are trying to bring to market first.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 18, 2010, 01:36:58 PM
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@Ian So because NBA Jam is no longer exclusive 3rd party support is dead?? What about Goldeneye? What about Just Dance? What about the fact that EA blatantly shows people using a Wiimote for BOTH of it's vitality sensor games? And since E3 is in June and none of us are industry insiders, how do you know what is planned for 2011 concerning 3rd party support?
Third party support on the Wii has ALWAYS been dead. It has never ever been even remotely close to what I would consider acceptable. The third party offerings on the Wii is just pitiful compared to that of the PS3 and Xbox 360. That isn't going to change. The time for it to change was like a year into the Wii's life. The assumption was that no one expected the Wii to be a success so that had nothing ready, but the games would come once they had time to make them. But there was never a switch over. EA, Activision and Ubisoft are the only companies that really give us ANYTHING and it's usually junk. EA and Ubisoft have both bitched about the "Wii audience" not buying their games. Activision is the lone exception but they've always been supportive of multi-platform releases with the Wii, giving us Guitar Hero and Call of Duty. Nothing has changed and nothing indicates a potential change. NBA Jam on the Wii has sold like piss and that likely has a lot to do with the fact that EA changed it from an exclusive to being the worst entry in a multiplatform release. And they'll surely bitch about it. I'm using it as an example of the second class treatment the Wii gets. I don't have to be an industry insider to guess that things are going to stay, at best, exactly the same when nothing has happened that would change third parties' minds about the Wii. Why would they suddenly decide to embrace the Wii after shitting on it this whole time?
I guess it depends on what one thinks about the third party support right now. I personally think that 2010 was a sparse year for the Wii and that the sparse release schedule has put the Wii on borrowed time.
Regarding the 3DS and Wii 2 being released in the same year I really don't think the GBA cut into Gamecube sales back when they both launched in the same year. I don't think it will matter. Hell, the Wii 2 launch will likely sell out anyway just from sales from Nintendo fans alone. And the two systems are going to co-exist so realistically they could always eat into each other's sales. That's something Nintendo has to risk, just like they risked it in the past. If they launch them around the same time then they could give any connectivity between the two a big push, particularly if they can demonstrate the feature early on. I think the 3DS also has the potential to take attention away from the current Wii. I think glasses free 3D will create a frenzy similar to that of the Wii when it launched. Wii owners will be exposed to the 3DS which will make the Wii look very weak in comparison since it will be a console with worse graphics than its portable sister product. But if Wii 2 hype is building up at the same time I think that will keep momentum going for the Wii "brand".
I think the most important thing is that the Wii does not become irrelevant in the minds of the consumer until the Wii 2 is firmly in their minds. Regardless of what timeframe you feel the Wii 2 should launch in, we can probably all agree that it is important that the transition be smooth without any dip in Wii popularity.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 18, 2010, 01:41:18 PM
I didn't say that the 3DS is a reaction to the PSP2 but rather that the release is.
And just because the PSP2 doesn't look like the iPad, doesn't mean it isn't a tablet. I would reference the Samsung Galaxy Tab and the Dell Streak for that point.
Nintendo has to care about PSP2 because despite the DS's phenomenal sales the PSP still steals exclusives away from it. And, like I said, the PSP has been catching up in monthly sales, and more importantly(?) game sales.
Also, the dev kit isn't the final design so it may yet get a larger screen, and with how much power it purportedly has, why not give it a full OS? The 3DS has some meager form of an OS with its power, and even if the PSP2 isn't really a tablet and more of an MID, Sony will still market it as a tablet, then people will say its a tablet, and it will effectively be a tablet, because perception is everything.
Also, even if Nintendo doesn't see the PSP/2 as competition developers do.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 18, 2010, 03:14:01 PM
Could this be any indication of how Nintendo could move 15 million units?
I would argue that the only reason the Xbox 360 has out sold the Wii is because everyone and their uncle is ditching the older 360 for the slim model and this will eventually fizzle out. I mean I would buy a 360 slim if the 3DS were not sp close to being released.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on November 18, 2010, 03:28:22 PM
Wow. If Nintendo wants to revive Japanese sales they should just call the next system the Nintendo 1985, because that's all these people care about apparently
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 18, 2010, 03:40:07 PM
Ian, GBA and GCN did not launch in the same year. GBA first released in March 2000 (June 2000 in North America), GCN first launched in September 2001 (November 2001 in North America).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 18, 2010, 03:43:52 PM
The GBA came out in June 2001 in North America.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 18, 2010, 04:23:43 PM
The Wii used to be impossible to find in stores for like two straight years. So, yeah, in comparison to that the Wii phenomenon is over. But that kind of frenzy was never going to sustain. Things were going to die off once everyone who wanted a Wii had one.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 18, 2010, 05:48:38 PM
I would not call Wii third party support dead, but on critical life support. I mean I really liked some of the third party games that have cone out on Wii. I loved both No More Heroes games, Red Steel 2 was fun and Monster Hunter 3 was fantastic. Most of the games that I own are third party and the quality of the games are by no means a slouch. The Wii 2 must turn the third party support in a 360 direction (pun intended :P: : ).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 18, 2010, 05:51:35 PM
Wow. If Nintendo wants to revive Japanese sales they should just call the next system the Nintendo 1985, because that's all these people care about apparently
We could come to that conclusion if we ignore that it was also the release of long awaited color of Red that could have been the largest contributing factor.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 18, 2010, 05:54:48 PM
Before the 3DS was announced, I was going to purchase a black Wii and transfer over my data, but now I a going to waith and buy the black 3DS and possibly a black Wii 2 (with a matte finish).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on November 18, 2010, 06:00:03 PM
Wow. If Nintendo wants to revive Japanese sales they should just call the next system the Nintendo 1985, because that's all these people care about apparently
We could come to that conclusion if we ignore that it was also the release of long awaited color of Red that could have been the largest contributing factor.
Fine. Nintendo Red 1985. Now are you happy
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on November 18, 2010, 06:13:38 PM
It isn't about years, anything with the Mario name will sell. They should name their next system "The Mario" or perhaps "Marwiio."
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: King of Twitch on November 18, 2010, 06:22:18 PM
Alright alright geez.. The Nintendo Red Mario Brothers 1985 system. They should make it in the shape of a hat with the disc popping out of the glowing 'M'
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Sarail on November 18, 2010, 07:00:01 PM
Don't you mean "cartridge"?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 18, 2010, 07:15:17 PM
If the Wii is going to have a cartridge slot, then the games need to be about the size of a Gamecube or PS2 memory card to avoid being lost easily. What signifcance would returning to carts have for the Wii 2?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 18, 2010, 07:28:44 PM
That is silly. Size of games doesn't matter at home. You aren't moving them or traveling the them...so you shouldn't lose them. I am not convinced that people want cards though, because disks are cheaper. However, I must say I like the idea, that a card could have the ability to save game files on the card, so you can take your save with you to your friends house...that is an important missing part in the disk game era.
I do not think 3rd party support is dead, just ignorant. They treat Nintendo differently, because they got their tainted glasses. They haven't seen Nintendo growing or expanding for years...they assume Nintendo can only be kiddie, casual, non-gamer. They see what sells initially on the system and copy it...instead of being original. When they are original, they don't market it, advertise it, or push it at all...and then it sells bad, and they say Oops. Nintendo can't sell traditional games. Some companies understand that is not true. Some companies understand it first must be a quality product they believe in...then advertise it...but unfortunately not enough do.
There will be good Wii games that come out...and developers that take the time to make great Wii games can be rewarded greatly. That said, Nintendo did not do a good job enticing 3rd party developers to make games for their system. The online structure, power, and controller were hard to get around.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 18, 2010, 07:42:22 PM
I detest load times. I don't care if it's only a few seconds. Cards > Discs
Dead, ignorant... whatever. Inconsequential. Besides a few games here and there, support has been awful.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 18, 2010, 09:45:24 PM
Dino Crisis 4 in HD would make a good launch title for the Wii 2. But I can not shake this feeling that third parties are going to shove their PS360 games onto the system for the early party of its launch. I mean here is a list of launch titles that could come out for the Wii 2:
Conduit 3 Super Mario Galaxy 3 Red Steel 3 Punch-out 2 No More Heroes 3 Wii Sports 2 (with judo, kick boxing and karate) Sin and Punishment 3 New Super Mario Brothers 3 Star Fox (Armada) in HD (Eternal Darkness 2)?
A new sci-fi FPS developed by Retro Studios andmarketed to be Nintendo's Halo killer.
Also, MMOs should be made available for the system and Monster Hunter Frontier should be the first on the list. Lastly, Retro should begin to develop MMOs of their own for Nintendo to compete with Sony and Microsoft.
Retro's MMOs should include the following:
Medieval Final Fantasy/Fable-esque game. Cyberpunk MMO Space opera MMO
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 18, 2010, 09:51:21 PM
So you want Retro to make 3 MMOs and a Halo killer? In addition to being terrible ideas, it wouldn't be possible for one team to do all of them.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 18, 2010, 09:53:17 PM
Dino Crisis 4 in HD would make a good launch title for the Wii 2. But I can not shake this feeling that third parties are going to shove their PS360 games onto the system for the early party of its launch. I mean here is a list of launch titles that could come out for the Wii 2:
Conduit 3 Super Mario Galaxy 3 Red Steel 3 Punch-out 2 No More Heroes 3 Wii Sports 2 (with judo, kick boxing and karate) Sin and Punishment 3 New Super Mario Brothers 3 Star Fox (Armada) in HD (Eternal Darkness 2)?
A new sci-fi FPS developed by Retro Studios andmarketed to be Nintendo's Halo killer.
Also, MMOs should be made available for the system and Monster Hunter Frontier should be the first on the list. Lastly, Retro should begin to develop MMOs of their own for Nintendo to compete with Sony and Microsoft.
Retro's MMOs should include the following:
Medieval Final Fantasy/Fable-esque game. Cyberpunk MMO Space opera MMO
Your launch line up is a little too ambitious...but I understand you are just writing what COULD be available. The Wii launched with Zelda...so the Wii 2.0 will most likely launch with a Mario game, and some other type of game. Usually, racing games come out because they are easy to make, and attract an immediate hey this is fun experience...even if it is only shallow.
I see the launch lineup being something like this:
New Super Mario 3 (Easy game to release...captures casual and hardcore interest...keep all the original suits, just reworked to fit with 4 players on screen...and an online mode with level editor. Killer App)
F-Zero Wii 2 (I believe F-Zero is not coming out this generation...I just don't see it coming so late for the system. However, it could be handed to the team that worked on Excite Trucks, and polished up for a nice launch title.)
Wario Ware Wii 2 (Let's face it Smooth Moves was a great experience...but hampered by limitations of the software, and wanting to work with only one controller. It would be a nice launch lineup for Nintendo to show off crazy Nintendo style online competition Micro-games and have a better 4 player in house mode with 4 Wii remotes.)
All of these games could be developed and handled in-house by Nintendo easily and ready in about year development time for launch of a new system. But there isn't yet that killer title.
Retro: Retro is working on DCR, but the game is finished...and it shouldn't have taken all their resources pulling that game together. I think they will be utilized to make the "Western" launch game. I am not saying Halo killer...or anything. I am just saying a very pretty graphically intense core gamer launch title that will wow everyone. But my prediction also is this game will come out 2-3 months after launch.
For 3rd parties I see:
Conduit 3 (High Voltage was smart to bet of the Wii...because nobody else was. I see them jumping onboard with a big reward.) Madden 2012 Raving Rabbids....I dunno I would like to think the series will be ended with the Wii...but the Rabbids are cute and are well designed characters, they will last for the launch lineup of Wii 2.0 And it will be a party game.
Wii Sports may also be a pack-in game for the system, or a channel. With new controls and a few new games. I like the idea of updated games from Wii Sports, Resort, and Wii Play...being released as the pack in.
In total I predict a launch with 10 to 12 games including 3rd parties.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 18, 2010, 11:18:39 PM
Dino Crisis 4 in HD would make a good launch title for the Wii 2. But I can not shake this feeling that third parties are going to shove their PS360 games onto the system for the early party of its launch. I mean here is a list of launch titles that could come out for the Wii 2:
Conduit 3 Super Mario Galaxy 3 Red Steel 3 Punch-out 2 No More Heroes 3 Wii Sports 2 (with judo, kick boxing and karate) Sin and Punishment 3 New Super Mario Brothers 3 Star Fox (Armada) in HD (Eternal Darkness 2)?
A new sci-fi FPS developed by Retro Studios andmarketed to be Nintendo's Halo killer.
Also, MMOs should be made available for the system and Monster Hunter Frontier should be the first on the list. Lastly, Retro should begin to develop MMOs of their own for Nintendo to compete with Sony and Microsoft.
Retro's MMOs should include the following:
Medieval Final Fantasy/Fable-esque game. Cyberpunk MMO Space opera MMO
Your launch line up is a little too ambitious...but I understand you are just writing what COULD be available. The Wii launched with Zelda...so the Wii 2.0 will most likely launch with a Mario game, and some other type of game. Usually, racing games come out because they are easy to make, and attract an immediate hey this is fun experience...even if it is only shallow.
I see the launch lineup being something like this:
New Super Mario 3 (Easy game to release...captures casual and hardcore interest...keep all the original suits, just reworked to fit with 4 players on screen...and an online mode with level editor. Killer App)
F-Zero Wii 2 (I believe F-Zero is not coming out this generation...I just don't see it coming so late for the system. However, it could be handed to the team that worked on Excite Trucks, and polished up for a nice launch title.)
Wario Ware Wii 2 (Let's face it Smooth Moves was a great experience...but hampered by limitations of the software, and wanting to work with only one controller. It would be a nice launch lineup for Nintendo to show off crazy Nintendo style online competition Micro-games and have a better 4 player in house mode with 4 Wii remotes.)
All of these games could be developed and handled in-house by Nintendo easily and ready in about year development time for launch of a new system. But there isn't yet that killer title.
Retro: Retro is working on DCR, but the game is finished...and it shouldn't have taken all their resources pulling that game together. I think they will be utilized to make the "Western" launch game. I am not saying Halo killer...or anything. I am just saying a very pretty graphically intense core gamer launch title that will wow everyone. But my prediction also is this game will come out 2-3 months after launch.
For 3rd parties I see:
Conduit 3 (High Voltage was smart to bet of the Wii...because nobody else was. I see them jumping onboard with a big reward.) Madden 2012 Raving Rabbids....I dunno I would like to think the series will be ended with the Wii...but the Rabbids are cute and are well designed characters, they will last for the launch lineup of Wii 2.0 And it will be a party game.
Wii Sports may also be a pack-in game for the system, or a channel. With new controls and a few new games. I like the idea of updated games from Wii Sports, Resort, and Wii Play...being released as the pack in.
In total I predict a launch with 10 to 12 games including 3rd parties.
I see a developer like High Voltage rising to power mainly by sticking with Nintendo. Their pedigree towards game development is debatable, but the quality of the Conduit series can not e denied. They want to develop for the HD consoles, but they seem to not have the experiece, nor the resources to develope for those systems. So they would be better off staying the Wii and its successor and building up prestige and experience to run with the big dogs. Developers like Activision and EA started out small and fragile and now they are giants in the industry.
Are there any other third party titles that could be potentially released for the Wii 2. I personally want No More Heroes 3 as soon as possible and Suda 51 has said that he wants the game on the Wii's successor. Also, third parties are free to port over any of the PS360 games as long as it is the good ones.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 19, 2010, 09:46:50 AM
@Kytim Yes, that is how Nintendo plans for the Wii to get that extra 15 million. Like Iwata said they want to give people special incentives for them to buy the Wii. They should have done a pink Wii for Kirby's Epic Yarn (and breast cancer awareness) and a DK themed one for DKCR but maybe they'll do a gold one for Skyward Sword.
@Ian So if 3rd part support has always been dead on Wii, and 3 - 4 1st party games isn't scarce, then what has changed to make them want to release the Wii2? Sales are still strong, Wiimote + just barely came out, the vitality sensor is still yet to come out, and the competition is in no position to release their next consoles (could be wrong about that but it seems so unlikely with game costs and how much studios are cutting back to save money). Do you really think a more powerful Wii with nothing new will be enough for 3rd parties to suddenly bring their games to a console with less users than the PS3? Even if Nintendo fans buy up the Wii2 that doesn't mean 3rd parties who constantly complain that Nintendo users only buy Nintendo games are going to be pleased. If all you want is PS3 ports, may I suggest buying a 360. The Wii2 is going to be new and innovative in a way that we likely can't imagine, and will either draw in 3rd parties like the 3DS or make them cautious like the Wii. Nintendo can afford to wait to take that gamble.
Edit: Typos
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 19, 2010, 12:25:38 PM
Quote
But I can not shake this feeling that third parties are going to shove their PS360 games onto the system for the early party of its launch.
But that would be a good thing, assuming that they were current PS360 games and that the PS3 and Xbox 360 were still the current consoles from Sony and MS. One of the sucky things about the Wii third party support is that tons of games are made for every console BUT the Wii. If the Wii 2 can get all the multiplatform games then things would be going pretty good.
Quote
So if 3rd part support has always been dead on Wii, and 3 - 4 1st party games isn't scarce, then what has changed to make them want to release the Wii2? Sales are still strong, Wiimote + just barely came out, the vitality sensor is still yet to come out, and the competition is in no position to release their next consoles (could be wrong about that but it seems so unlikely with game costs and how much studios are cutting back to save money). Do you really think a more powerful Wii with nothing new will be enough for 3rd parties to suddenly bring their games to a console with less users than the PS3?
Third parties are mostly interested in releasing multiplatform games these days. They want their game to be on as many platforms as possible which is why a last place console like the PS3 has healthy support. The amount of third party exclusives on the PS3 is pretty low but it still gets most of the big games. The Wii hardware is too different to allow for multiplatform releases so most devs either ignore it or release quick cash-in "exclusives" to get some Wii product out there. The Wii is just too underpowered.
But the Wii 2 (presumably) will make up for that and actually have comparative hardware to the other consoles. Nintendo even said that they made the 3DS a very powerful system because they didn't want third parties to be turned off by hardware restrictions so we know that Nintendo has thought about this. Third parties don't bring their multiplatform games to the Wii because they can't. Not because they hate Nintendo but because they can't easily move a game from the PS360 to the Wii. If they can do it with the Wii 2 they will for their whole plan is to get their games on as many platforms as possible.
If they ignore the Wii 2 as well it will be because of some developer unfriendliness on Nintendo's part. Nintendo will skimp on the hardware again or have shitty development kits or the hardware is incompatible with the popular game engines or something like that.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 19, 2010, 12:44:06 PM
Ian you forgot one thing, Nintendo worked with 3rd parties on the kinds of things they would want to see out of the 3DS, that is something that I would hope they would continue to do for the Wii2 also in hopes that 3rd parties have input on what to expect and can be excited to actually support the system like they are for the 3DS.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 19, 2010, 03:08:51 PM
3rd parties should just release games that people would want to play, end of story. If its a "maybe they would want to play it" type game than it has already failed. If you don't make a "must get" then its going to be a "maybe get", and a "maybe get" gets 50% of sales/praise if that.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 19, 2010, 03:20:31 PM
Quote
3rd parties should just release games that people would want to play, end of story. If its a "maybe they would want to play it" type game than it has already failed.
Yeah, you get the feeling that on the PS360 the devs makes the games they would want to play and would likely enjoy while on the Wii they're guessing what the audience would like. Make games you would want to play, make movies you would want to see, make music you would want to listen to. That seems like the easy way to do it. Otherwise you're just guessing and speculating and only a few really savy people can ever pull that off.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 19, 2010, 04:47:08 PM
Honestly, I don't think a bunch of sequels to hardcore games people didn't play in the previous generation is going to make the new console appealing. It should launch with a new IP.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 19, 2010, 05:17:38 PM
Of course there will be new IP's, but now there will be an opportunity to also have all the popular 3rd party games that were previously every console but Wii.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 19, 2010, 05:24:51 PM
Of course there will be new IP's, but now there will be an opportunity to also have all the popular 3rd party games that were previously every console but Wii.
That's only going to sell it to people who only owned a Wii this gen. People who owned one or both other consoles aren't going to buy a new console to play games they've already seen.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 19, 2010, 05:27:10 PM
I don't mean old games, I mean CURRENT ones. When the Wii 2 launches there will be current PS360 games being released and those will hopefully also appear on the Wii 2 at the same time. These won't be last gen games unless Sony and MS roll out their next gen consoles around the same time. And if Sony and MS do then I hope Nintendo matches them in hardware and isn't one gen behind again.
Anyway, regardless of the details it would be good if the Wii 2 was getting included in the current multiplatform releases at the time.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on November 19, 2010, 05:27:17 PM
Of course there will be new IP's, but now there will be an opportunity to also have all the popular 3rd party games that were previously every console but Wii.
However, if companies actually bother to make ports of current generation games on the next generation Wii, they will not sell outside of a few isolated instances. Most users who wanted to purchase those games probably went and purchased them on the other consoles. There will be no reason to purchase them on Wii 2 if you already own them or already played them years prior unless the titles were practically rebuilt for Wii 2's unique user interface. It would be something like what we saw with the New Play Control titles. The only exception this generation I can think of was Resident Evil 4 Wii.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 19, 2010, 05:31:27 PM
The games will still be new, and having to decide on whether to play GTA5 on the PS360 with Move/Kinect support or play it on Wii2 with better graphics and whatever new gimmick or improvement to controls that Nintendo has made might not be the most motivating factor to upgrade, but when you pair that superior GTA V up with some kick ass exclusive Launch IP and the next big Nintendo game like Super Mario Universe or New Super Mario Bros. Wii 2, then that port of GTA V for Wii 2 is looking pretty good over the PS360 versions with inferior visuals and subpar controls.
edit: Why is there this confusion that we would somehow mean that Wii 2 is gonna get a port of Deadspace while PS360 is getting DeadSpace 2? Why would anyone think that we were talking about new games going to PS30 while the superior Wii2 gets 1+year old ports of games that everyone has already played? what sense does make?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 19, 2010, 05:48:53 PM
Nintendo's first party titles would be the deciding factor. For example I already have a PS3 so if the latest PS360 title is getting a simultaneous release on the PS3, X360 and Wii 2, I'm not going to buy a Wii 2 for something I can play on a console I already have. But it is still important that those titles be there. The exclusives would make me purchase the Wii 2 but I would want the standard multiplatform games to be there as well.
It's no different then how the Gamecube had some current PS2 games released during launch. Why would I buy a Gamecube for THPS3 when I already have a PS2? Well you wouldn't but it was important the Cube was getting one of the current hit games at the same time.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on November 19, 2010, 05:49:07 PM
The games will still be new, and having to decide on whether to play GTA5 on the PS360 with Move/Kinect support or play it on Wii2 with better graphics
What makes you think the Wii 2 will have stronger technical powess than the PS3/360? Sure, I'd certainly want that to happen, but Nintendo has made it very clear over the last 5 or so years their disdain for creating hardware with that level of firepower. The most I'd expect of Wii 2 would be whatever wacky UI thingy (+ 3-4 peripherals they have no intention of supporting) Nintendo wants to shove down our throats next with roughly the technical powess of the 360 or PS3, maybe a little less. After all, they're Nintendo and they're starving for money.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 19, 2010, 06:07:36 PM
Maybe because Nintendo would spend more in R&D trying to NOT have better graphics than PS360 than to yet still have a GPU that is capable of modern graphics. Maybe because I doubt Nintendo is gonna recycle the 1999 Flipper/Gekko chipset again use it for the 3rd time. Maybe because even with off the shelf parts, Nintendo could get better performance than a PS360 and pack it into a retail machine for about $200/$250. Maybe because I doubt Nintendo wouldn't create something for their next home console that didn't make the 3DS look like a handheld. Maybe because Nintendo has shown with the 3DS that they are willing to work with 3rd parties to create a machine that they are excited to work with and gives everybody enough flexibility to create the games that they want to make.
I'm pretty sure the main reason Wii is as underpowered as it is, is because Nintendo invested alot in that chipset only to see it underutilized. It's been recycled and they have way more than gotten their moneys worth from it. I highly doubt that chipset is modern enough to be recycled yet again and it would likely just be easier to start with something much more modern that is backwards compatible, something that can read the same instruction set.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 19, 2010, 06:24:27 PM
I hate to always be contrary, but since I have never played the majority PS360 third party, so I would be open to playing them if their developers added something extra to the deal and offered them at budget prices.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 19, 2010, 06:59:10 PM
The 3DS is pretty cutting edge and Nintendo themselves stated that part of the incentive for that was so that third parties would not use hardware restrictions as an excuse for not developing for it. It would seem pretty idiotic to have that mentality for their portable but not their console.
However with Nintendo I am always skeptical. There is always the "**** up something obvious and completely avoidable" factor with them. They SHOULD at the very least match the other consoles with the Wii 2. All logic suggests that they will. But if they utterly **** it up and give us 2 and a half Gamecubes duct taped together I would not be surprised in the least.
Hell, Nintendo could try selling refurbished Virtual Boys for $10000 and I would not be surprised. In fact I would be surprised if they don't **** up SOMETHING incredibly stupid and avoidable with the Wii 2. I just hope it isn't something that matters much.
Adding to the argument in favour of a 2011 Wii 2 launch is the HDTV thing. When the Wii launched HDTVs were just starting to really catch on but now? I'm a weirdo for not having one. All my friends have one, my parents have one, any co-worker that I have been to the house of has one. Of anyone that I know what sort of TV they have I am literally the ONLY ONE without an HDTV. And the Wii doesn't support HD connections. That seemed a little out-of-date at launch and now it makes the Wii look ancient. So is the Wii going to last for years and years more being the only item that connects to a TV still on sale that doesn't support current TV standards? This is like if the N64 only supported coaxial connections. I don't think this is the highest priority but it really is pretty lame.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 19, 2010, 07:36:55 PM
considering that Nintendo is all about efficiency of design, I expec tthere to be alot less RAM than what most devs would want, and it will be pretty fast ram, but still less than or equal to 1/2 at best and 1/4 at worst of what the next-gen competition will half.
I would also expect Nintendo to stick with another fixed shader model for their next GPU even though everyone is using and used to programable.
Onboard storage will also not be as big as we want.
But it will absolutely be more powerful than the PS360 is today by a nice amount. It probably won't matter as much since it will seemlessly handle 1080p @60fps with a majority of the most common graphical effects turned on with draw distances that definitely meet expectations and enough polygons to rival CG animation of yesteryear, but what more could you really ask for? What more will the over powered Xbox720/PS4 really bring to the table other than insanely high storage and way more RAM than should be necessary? and at what price and in what year?
Nintendo could launch a console by the end of 2011 that would easily outdo PS360 and sell it with a minor profit at a price of $250.
and if they did anything remotely close to the dual tracked motion controls that I suggested earlier, and all the 3rd party support showed up for the now most powerful console on the market, mixed with new IP's and Nintendo's best offerings, MS & Sony would have no choice but to scramble to play catch up again. But they need to strike before the Wii's flame fizzles out, and it looks like the Wii has been burning it's candle at both ends as it is.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 19, 2010, 07:48:30 PM
Nintendo is going to have to adapt to the changing trends within the gaming industry if they want to survive. I respect their business philosophies, but they are ging to have to play it smart with the Wii 2, 3DS and future systems until they can work out a new niche in the new market trends.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 19, 2010, 07:56:47 PM
Quote
considering that Nintendo is all about efficiency of design, I expec tthere to be alot less RAM than what most devs would want, and it will be pretty fast ram, but still less than or equal to 1/2 at best and 1/4 at worst of what the next-gen competition will half.
I would also expect Nintendo to stick with another fixed shader model for their next GPU even though everyone is using and used to programable.
Onboard storage will also not be as big as we want.
I'm kind of wondering if this stuff alone could screw up third party support. If everyone is used to a programmable shader model (I don't really know what that is) then I have a feeling that that is what they should go with. Devs want more RAM? Then GIVE IT TO THEM. This is just Nintendo designing for Nintendo and Nintendo alone all over again. This sort of stuff is what they HAVE TO CHANGE if they want things to improve.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 19, 2010, 07:58:49 PM
From everything we've heard, it seems like Nintendo gave developers what they wanted with the 3DS, so it seems likely that they'll do the same with the Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 19, 2010, 08:03:56 PM
I was just about to mention that. We don't have specs or anything official about what's in the 3DS, but it seems to get the job done. and if you based your judgements of the DS by the hardware inside of it before you saw what the DS was capable of in it's best games, you wouldn't have been highly disappointed by the seemingly low amounts of everything.
So regardless of what Nintendo decides is enough of a balance to give the majority of developers the results that they want with minimal work, we will be seeing a machine that is capable of much more than what you would think just by adding up the much less than bleeding edge tech sheet.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 19, 2010, 08:11:21 PM
I see the Wii 2 as being about the same power of the 360, but Nintendo and third parties could easily push it towards the PS3 in power scale. What I see happening is that Nintendo will try and stay in the range of the 360 and let third parties exspand where ever they want because Nintendo wants their support and what better way to keep it then to give them as much creative space as they could need and are familiar with by developing for the PS360.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 20, 2010, 06:58:22 AM
Nintendo is not done with the Wii, and neither are the 3rd parties.
The Wii has seen much better support than the the GC and that was more powerful than the PS2. The Wii has gotten a lot of multiplatform releases despite being underpowered because of its user base. The only reason the Wii doesn't get certain games (GTA IV) is because developers don't believe their games are viable on the system, that M rated games don't sell on Wii, and if you release within a month or two of a 1st party game your sales will be ****.
The best way Nintendo can help 3rd parties is to have their own releases spaced out enough to give other games a chance. Having a more powerful console solves none of the problems I just mentioned, Nintendo needs to prove they can sell a wide variety of games on their systems before they can expect better 3rd party support.
That's why their portables have always had a ton of support regardless of how their console was doing; lots of different people bought it, and bought lots of different games. That has not been true of the Wii, so why would it suddenly be true of the Wii2 unless Nintendo discovers the way to attract more people to its console?
Releasing a system just as powerful or marginally more powerful than what's out there is not the way to go about that.
Why would a current PS3/360 owner buy a Wii2 if it's just as powerful and uses dual motion sensing like the Move, when they already have those capabilities? Just for Nintendo's 1st party games? That leads right back into the problem of 3rd party games not selling on Nintendo's console.
Just like they did with the Wii, Nintendo needs to offer something completely different to gamers to get them interested in the Wii2. Yes it needs more power, yes it should be more powerful than the PS3, but it should not come out until holiday 2012 or 2013 when people are feeling that their PS3's and 360's are feeling out of date. Nintendo does need to be first on the block, but not so early that no one has woken up yet for them to sell to.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 20, 2010, 02:20:46 PM
Gamasutra released their NPD October report http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6210/npd_behind_the_numbers_october_.php (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6210/npd_behind_the_numbers_october_.php)
and I found one part of it very interesting(I only skimmed the pics :D ), especially since we've been debating on whether the Wii is in need of a replacement like the DS (http://imgur.com/JDmV4.png) vs (http://imgur.com/H0Jis.png) vs (http://imgur.com/2XTgT.png)
Both Sony and MS are having the best hardware years ever so far and Nintendo needs to have a record setting Nov. and a trick play in Dec. just to keep them from being significantly down YoY. Normally YoY wouldn't be that big of a deal, but the competition is seeing a YoY increase in sales and in the case of the 360 have even outsold the Wii YTD. Now holiday sales could swing YTD back in Nintendo's favor, but it's still a downward trend that is only more likely to get worse next year.
and for those that say the DS was still selling good. It is from a hardware perspective, but software was looking pretty bad. Not pathetic like PSP selling on a PS2 level bad, but way down from it's peak of several years ago. (http://imgur.com/3Z6Wg.png)
Assuming Wii doesn't have the most spectacular Holiday sales ever, then we know it's already sliding down from it's peak and Nintendo will need to do something major to slow this downward trend if they want to keep the Wii around till Xmas 2012 or longer and not see software revenue continue to swirl down the drain (Nintendo lost just as much software revenue as MS & Sony gained).
So regardless of what Nintendo has planned for the Wii, everyone else that is paying attention sees the writing on the wall. Nintendo was hoping to catch the attention of the casual base with something like WiiParty, but even if it ends up being a success a year from now, Nintendo needs something that is gonna make a big impact now. Most 3rd parties are not gonna invest heavily in Wii moving forward when they can see that overall Wii software revenue is down and half of that is from Nintendo's own software. 3rd parties that are currently working on something for the Wii have likely had all their projections cut way back and their budgets have likely followed (just like many of the big 3rd party Wii games that we were anticipating that already came out.). Now unless some 3rd party gets a major incentive from Nintendo (like the Team Ninja on M:OM) I seriously doubt they are even planning a Wii version of whatever they making and would much rather put it on the all but guaranteed juggernaut 3DS.
I'm pretty sure the release of the 3DS, with it's games that look better than Wii and online that is likely better than Wii and it's sales and popularity that will likely drown out the Wii will be the new focus of the core and casual crowds and distract us from the quiet wind down of the Wii while Nintendo prepares it's replacement. No amount of price drops is gonna save a platform with no compelling new games. Nintendo couldn't sell a $99 GC vs an inferior $199 PS2 because of the game selection. So price drops are not gonna solve anything other than getting those extremely price conscience shoppers to finally buy in and pick up those 2 or 3 games they've been wanting to play.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 20, 2010, 05:07:10 PM
I see your point, I'm just saying it's still too early to call.
Let's see what happens at TGS and E3 because as of now good multiplatform (COD) and good exclusives (Goldeneye, Epic Mickey, Just Dance(?)) are being made for the system. That will be their holiday push games, price, family fun at only $250 with 2 games packed in. Their still banking on software and price, the Nintendo way. 3rd party support may not be robust but unlike the GC it does exist.
We don't really know what Nintendo has planned for the Wii. Unlike usual Nintendo they've swamped us (for them anyway) with info about the 3DS. Yes they originally wanted a holiday release but they probably knew internally and didn't want to scare investors. And we know the 3DS is going to be a success, hopefully the Wii can piggyback that success. Kingdom Hearts 3D is going to lead into Kingdom Hearts 3, and the Wii gets none of that? This is not the GC, even if sales are slowing, they are still good, and don't forget the 360 has a year on it, and the Kinect looks pretty cool, and the PS3 has more power and 'hardcore' games, it has disadvantages and is keeping up.
Let's see if Nintendo can boost sales like they say are trying to do. They're still in the game, and they still have things to show us. If after TGS and E3 their is nothing new for Wii and it's all about the 3DS then obviously expect Wii2, but there are good 3rd party games for the Wii that have recently come out/been announced. I'm asking what's the need for the panic? The sales and games are there right now, why doesn't the bode well for the future? Especially for games, the Wii isn't at PS2 levels yet...
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 20, 2010, 07:02:06 PM
The others are doing better than Nintendo this year, but that's not important. Market share is an overrated statistic. What matters is Nintendo's still making boatloads of money on the Wii, and it will continue to be quite profitable until late 2012 if they need it to be. Remember, Nintendo was the most profitable company last generation despite being in last place. Lower market share isn't enough to get Nintendo to release a new console, or at least it never has been in the past. Nintendo moves on to new hardware when they have to because of competition or lack of sales to the degree they saw at the end of the N64 and GameCube's lives.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 20, 2010, 07:59:21 PM
But this shows that Wii has passed it's peak and Xbox360 & PS3 have not. And for the fact that both MS & Sony have been talking about an extended generation where their machines could last for another 3-4 years, there is no way that Nintendo would want to ride that out and continue to not only lost marketshare, but profit share, consumer mindshare and content share to the competition. and Nintendo's profits are waaaay down this year. They have even posted a loss for the year so far and if these kind of sales continue throughout next year (which is unlikely thanks to the 3DS), then Nintendo will hopefully do what needs to be done(and what the shareholders will probably want).
Besides, there is a very good strategic advantage to Nintendo launching 3 years before MS & Sony are ready to. It could make them force their hands and rush hardware to market as to not give too big a lead and marketshare should the W2 catch fire. It could also force them to write off a huge loss this generation without ever having the time to recoup cost from over subsidized hardware and additional add-on launches. It could also kill the competition ability to get a real foot hold in the motion control game by one upping their one up attempt.... Nintendo did invent the 1-up after all ;)
But seriously, if Xmas doesn't save the day, then I'm sure a Wii2 in FY2011 is most definitely on the table. The Wii looks like it was designed to last no longer than the usual 5 years, so I'm sure that Wii2 had already been scheduled for a planned Xmas 2011 launch anyway.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 20, 2010, 08:15:04 PM
The others are doing better than Nintendo this year, but that's not important. Market share is an overrated statistic. What matters is Nintendo's still making boatloads of money on the Wii, and it will continue to be quite profitable until late 2012 if they need it to be. Remember, Nintendo was the most profitable company last generation despite being in last place. Lower market share isn't enough to get Nintendo to release a new console, or at least it never has been in the past. Nintendo moves on to new hardware when they have to because of competition or lack of sales to the degree they saw at the end of the N64 and GameCube's lives.
Yep, this is the reason why even though the sales are down this year, Nintendo hasn't given the Wii another price drop. People have to remember that the Gamecube and N64 were both $100 at this point in their lifespans. If Nintendo was truly worried about Wii sales at the moment, they would have cut the price to at least $150 by now. The fact that they haven't shows that they still feel the system is doing well enough for them at it's current price point.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 21, 2010, 08:17:24 AM
Black and Mild makes some serious points...I can totally, see Nintendo releasing the Wii 2.0 now in November of next year...It also means that if Microsoft and Sony want to have an extended life cycle, they could do 2-3 more years...with Nintendo being the superior system (not by much) but yeah, still superior.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 21, 2010, 10:55:09 AM
The Wii passed its peak a long time ago, as did the PS3 and 360. The only difference being that the latter two have released new peripherals that are bolstering sales. For the Move, it seems (just from what I've seen) is appealing to current PS3/PS2 owners who have bought the hype that Sony's waggle is better than Nintendo's. The Kinect on the other hand is appealing to not only casuals and 'hardcore' gamers, but hackers as well who are making good use of the open-source drivers to the point where they've impressed MS enough that their no longer saying they don't want people to modify their hardware (Engadget has an article about this, but I can't copy/paste url's on my phone for some reason). So right now, Nintendo's focus is on competing with those peripherals, not the main systems, because they are still getting multiplatform games and good exclusives. All the issues that have been listed as reasons to launch Wii2 Nintendo sees (taking Iwata and Reggie at their word) as reasons to recommit to the Wii and push the hardware further. What if Skyward Swords is better than OoT? What is WiiMusic2 starts a new segment of music games? Nintendo still has tricks up its sleeve for the Wii, and I think they're going to banl on more than just the 2011 holiday. One bad year when you've never before had a bad year, and that bad year comes in the middle of a global recession is no need to panic. One of the reasons Nintendo posted a loss is because of the Yen becoming stronger, making their international sales worth less than normal. This is not Nintendo's fault, and really the only thing they can do about it, is wait it out.
I still say there isn't enough incentive in releasing a new, more powerful, and expensive console. What reasons do consumers (namely casuals) have to upgrade, and developers to make new and more expensive games?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on November 21, 2010, 07:13:38 PM
I still say there isn't enough incentive in releasing a new, more powerful, and expensive console. What reasons do consumers (namely casuals) have to upgrade, and developers to make new and more expensive games?
Because if they don't the casuals will just upgrade to one of the motion compatible HD systems to get better graphics and DVD/Blue-Ray playback.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 22, 2010, 01:17:35 PM
The numbers don't lie. It isn't like the Wii is having one bad year. Last year was worse than the year before and this year is on pace to do even worse than that. With two years of data that starts to show a trend and suggests that the Wii has peaked. And that isn't even abnormal. Within the typical five-year life cycle of a console peaking in year three would make sense.
At the same time it isn't like one good year from Sony or MS due to their motion control attachments. They have gone up every year. That's not a fluke, that's a trend.
And this all fits the plans. Sony and MS built systems that were probably too big of a leap, which would be able to last for longer than the typical five year cycle. The PS3 in particular only become affordable last year. It will be a while until those systems appear dated. Where could they go anyway without charging $600 again for the next gen? They were consoles built to last and they are doing exactly that. Meanwhile the Wii, from a hardware perspective, was out-of-date the day it was released. If it wasn't planned to be a typical five year cycle then Nintendo are delusional idiots. Just the HD thing alone suggests that this was not going to be a long haul system. Plus they ended up having to improve the controller with Motion+. If Nintendo truly thought this could go for 8 years or whatever why would they intentionally gimp their controller, which is the whole reason the Wii even exists, and have to go with that as the standard for so long. Motion+ is not treated as the new standard, they treat it as an optional peripheral. There is a clear need for improvement with the Wii in that the graphics are going to be topped by a portable, the system doesn't support modern TV connections and the controller itself is in need of standardization. The whole thing just screams "five years". It was never built to last. Even if Nintendo intended for it to last they failed to build it that way.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 22, 2010, 08:20:44 PM
True. But, you know what...Nintendo needed to be careful. The Wii was very smart. It was a HUGE gamble...Nintendo couldn't have gambled with a new control system and made it too expensive to get the new audience.
However, now Nintendo could release a much more powerful system that uses its tested new control mechanics to push a more powerful system...and they can potentially do this with 2 or 3 years without another console competing. And if Sony and Microsoft do release a new system sooner than later, they are cutting into their years of profitability with their systems...specially Sony.
If Nintendo was smart and able to get something out sooner than later...2011 or early 2012 would be a huge boom for Nintendo with 2 huge money making releases and new momentum into the coming years.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 22, 2010, 09:49:52 PM
One thing about the last console generation was that games made on either the Xbox, PS2 or Gamecube were farely similar enough that games for each console were interchangable. Of course there were technical issues between the consoles, but there was enough similarity that third parties could easily develop non-exclusives for each system.
Fastforward to this generation and the the idea stated baove is not the case no longer. Games are interchangable between the PS360, but the Wii can not get games from its competitors as easily as the Gamecube did in its day. However, my point is that the Wii 2 will return to the idea of third party interchangability by easily handling PS360 games.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 22, 2010, 09:57:29 PM
the more important chart
(http://vgchartz.com/embeds/worldwide_totals.php)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 22, 2010, 10:02:15 PM
That chart seems indicative to the idea that the 3DS could threaten the Wii 2.
It was late at night and I noticed that the DS sold more units per million than the Wii. So I assumed that the 3DS could be a threat to the Wii 2 based on those sales. I did not factor in price difference between the two consoles.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 23, 2010, 12:39:49 PM
When determining whether or not to release a new console momentum and sales trends are more important. If total factored into the decision then the PS2 is currently the most relevant and successful console.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on November 23, 2010, 08:00:32 PM
That chart seems indicative to the idea that the 3DS could threaten the Wii 2.
No, it really doesn't. In fact, it indicates the opposite. Nintendo has dominated hardware sales this entire generation thus far in two separate markets. Wii and DS coexisted and made Nintendo multiple Scrooge McDuck towers full of gold coins. I don't see how one was a threat to the other or how their successors could threaten each other.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 23, 2010, 08:31:44 PM
That chart seems indicative to the idea that the 3DS could threaten the Wii 2.
No, it really doesn't. In fact, it indicates the opposite. Nintendo has dominated hardware sales this entire generation thus far in two separate markets. Wii and DS coexisted and made Nintendo multiple Scrooge McDuck towers full of gold coins. I don't see how one was a threat to the other or how their successors could threaten each other.
No, you're wrong!! If it wasn't for Nintendo's best selling handheld ever being on the market at the same time as Nintendo's best selling console ever then Nintendo's best selling console ever would have been even... ummm.... wait, what was I trying to say again?
That chart seems indicative to the idea that the 3DS could threaten the Wii 2.
No, it really doesn't. In fact, it indicates the opposite. Nintendo has dominated hardware sales this entire generation thus far in two separate markets. Wii and DS coexisted and made Nintendo multiple Scrooge McDuck towers full of gold coins. I don't see how one was a threat to the other or how their successors could threaten each other.
The only place where I could see that being the case is in Japan, which is increasingly obsessed with handhelds. I can definitely see the 3DS "stealing" possible Wii 2 sales in Japan given the weekly sales lists we see out of that country showing PSP and DS games up there instead of console games. I do not see that as a possibility anywhere else.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on November 23, 2010, 09:49:12 PM
If anything, Nintendo could use the 3DS to sell the next home system if they create some sort of connectivity, or maybe even help extend the Wii if they could someone connect with it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 24, 2010, 12:10:21 PM
Quote
The only place where I could see that being the case is in Japan, which is increasingly obsessed with handhelds. I can definitely see the 3DS "stealing" possible Wii 2 sales in Japan given the weekly sales lists we see out of that country showing PSP and DS games up there instead of console games. I do not see that as a possibility anywhere else.
I see it more like Japan just doesn't like consoles anymore and considers handhelds to be their medium of choice for videogames. So it isn't so much the 3DS stealing sales from the Wii 2 because I think that those "lost" Wii 2 sales would never have occured in the first place. If Nintendo didn't have a portable everyone in Japan would probably just buy a PSP instead.
I think the 3DS is more of a threat to the Wii in that it will make the Wii look weak and out-of-date because it, as a portable, will have better graphics than its sister console. Throughout videogame history that has never happened. Nintendo never had to worry about the GBA or DS looking more high tech than the N64 and Gamecube.
Unless Nintendo is following the trend in Japan and wants their portable to be the "main" system in which case it looking superior to the Wii is not such a big deal. The plan might be to make the 3DS the default videogame system and the Wii 1 or 2 is more for specific types of games that cannot be done on a handheld (ie: motion control). I think that would be complete suicide in North America but Nintendo tends to make worldwide decisions based on what's going on in Japan. It's a very extreme idea and I don't expect them to do it, but if they did I would not be surprised.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 24, 2010, 12:13:03 PM
That chart seems indicative to the idea that the 3DS could threaten the Wii 2.
It was late at night and I noticed that the DS sold more units per million than the Wii. So I assumed that the 3DS could be a threat to the Wii 2 based on those sales. I did not factor in price difference between the two consoles.
It was late at night and I noticed that the DS sold more units per million than the Wii. So I assumed that the 3DS could be a threat to the Wii 2 based on those sales. I did not factor in price difference between the two consoles.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 24, 2010, 12:22:27 PM
That chart seems indicative to the idea that the 3DS could threaten the Wii 2.
It was late at night and I noticed that the DS sold more units per million than the Wii. So I assumed that the 3DS could be a threat to the Wii 2 based on those sales. I did not factor in price difference between the two consoles.
It was late at night and I noticed that the DS sold more units per million than the Wii. So I assumed that the 3DS could be a threat to the Wii 2 based on those sales. I did not factor in price difference between the two consoles.
or the fact that the DS came out 2 years before the Wii and that in most cases, individuals own handhelds and a household owns a Wii.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 24, 2010, 07:59:52 PM
What are some good ways for the 3DS and the Wii 2 to connect in terms of games and functions?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 25, 2010, 05:05:38 AM
I don't want the 3DS and Wii or Wii 2.0 to interact, because that just means I have to have 2 systems to get everything out of a game...or if a game like 4 Swords comes out for the system...I will never play it because I won't have both parts. Realistically, there is very little interaction that is needed between the two. Online gaming can do most of the things that interaction can do together anyway.
The only 2 ways that might be interesting is a different controller for the Wii 2.0 for a special game...not really needed.
Or playing a 3DS game on a big screen which isn't needed and would not allow for the 3D effect. So I don't think they need interaction at all.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 25, 2010, 05:24:41 AM
Or Mario Paint Wii2, using the 3DS as your drawing pad.
or taking pictures with your 3DS to be used to create characters in games or Miis to be transfered between the 2 systems. or a game like Pacman Vs or another 4 Swords (like you mentioned)
or as a controller with a personal screen for uses in games like Madden or CoD: Future Warfare where you control the UAV or robotic bomb defuser via 3DS screen. Maybe as a way to connect to Pokemon Battle Arena on the Wii2 with each individual player choosing their pokemon from the game in their 3DS
There are probably dozens upon dozens of ways to use some form of connectivity between the 2 if Nintendo planned for connectivity while in the planning stages of both platforms. They haven't exactly produced anything that has sold anyone on connectivity in the past, but that's not to say that they couldn't make some really good in the future, should the 2 platforms be designed to be used together.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 25, 2010, 07:42:52 AM
Gimmicks are dumb. Give me games instead. Seriously.
Plus, 99% of the time Nintendo can't make versatile, feature rich interfaces that we're used to on our computers.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 25, 2010, 09:26:29 AM
I'm still waiting for a new Pac Man Vs.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 25, 2010, 09:38:51 AM
Exactly...I don't want to use the 3DS as a controller for 3 of those options.
I don't want to have to use the 3DS camera to make characters...give me that in the sensor bar.
Yes, there are ways to be used...but are they the BEST ways to be used...or do you really want to be forced to own 2 systems to get the most out of a game. I never meant to imply there wasn't any ideas...just I don't want to see that as a big selling point...because it won't be for me...it will actually upset me.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 25, 2010, 11:09:08 AM
Or Mario Paint Wii2, using the 3DS as your drawing pad.
or taking pictures with your 3DS to be used to create characters in games or Miis to be transfered between the 2 systems. or a game like Pacman Vs or another 4 Swords (like you mentioned)
or as a controller with a personal screen for uses in games like Madden or CoD: Future Warfare where you control the UAV or robotic bomb defuser via 3DS screen. Maybe as a way to connect to Pokemon Battle Arena on the Wii2 with each individual player choosing their pokemon from the game in their 3DS
There are probably dozens upon dozens of ways to use some form of connectivity between the 2 if Nintendo planned for connectivity while in the planning stages of both platforms. They haven't exactly produced anything that has sold anyone on connectivity in the past, but that's not to say that they couldn't make some really good in the future, should the 2 platforms be designed to be used together.
Spotpass enabled MMOs for the Wii 2 would be a good feature. For example, I am playing a Zelda or Dragon Quest MMO for the Wii 2 and I take my 3DS out and activate spotpass to gain fearures and items for the game on Wii 2. Of course this feature would not be limited to MMOs and basic games would get a similar feature as well.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 25, 2010, 02:22:57 PM
Exactly...I don't want to use the 3DS as a controller for 3 of those options.
I don't want to have to use the 3DS camera to make characters...give me that in the sensor bar.
That's fine, and i want the camera in the sensor bar too, and hopefully it will also be 3D for possible connectivity with the 3DS and future 3D TVs.
Quote
Yes, there are ways to be used...but are they the BEST ways to be used...or do you really want to be forced to own 2 systems to get the most out of a game. I never meant to imply there wasn't any ideas...just I don't want to see that as a big selling point...because it won't be for me...it will actually upset me.
So you're saying that you won't own a 3DS? But not saying that every game that uses connectivity will force you to use connectivity to complete your game, just add another way of interacting with it and maybe unlock some extra mode or options. But maybe other games (FF:CC3) could be designed with connectivity in mind and advertise in such a way to people that own both systems and maybe convince people that own one to go out and buy the other (3DS owners with the new Pokemon might go out and buy a Wii2 for the Pokemon Battle Arena connectivity and watch battles play out on the Big Screen).
Spotpass enabled MMOs for the Wii 2 would be a good feature. For example, I am playing a Zelda or Dragon Quest MMO for the Wii 2 and I take my 3DS out and activate spotpass to gain fearures and items for the game on Wii 2. Of course this feature would not be limited to MMOs and basic games would get a similar feature as well.
Thats not a bad idea. Using the 3DS to collect data for your Wii games too.
But the whole point is to provide the options, and set up the possibility correctly instead of as an afterthought like the GBA/GC situation. From there the developers can all decide whether to use it or not and maybe come up with something creative that we haven't thought of yet. Everything I thought of was just off the top of my head, so who knows what they might have in store for connectivity if it was a feature planned for from the beginning.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 26, 2010, 12:44:31 PM
Sometimes I wonder if connectivity is really a practical idea to enhance games or just a gimmick Nintendo came up with to encourage people to buy both of their systems. On the Gamecube the only game I played where I thought connectivity was really worthwhile was Four Swords (I never played Pac-Man Vs. as I didn't want any of the full games it came with). But even then the "need" for connectivity in Four Swords was to give everyone their own screen and that probably could have been done online. There is a certain thrill in having everyone there with you but headset support would simulate that experience a lot as well. The value of having everyone there but also having their own screen is minimal. An online method just has more benefits.
Having your own screen is the whole point of it and online play does that. So what does connectivity really provide? What sort of game ideas are there where you NEED to use connectivity and online with headsets doesn't allow? The 3DS allows the use of a 3D screen so that is something different you couldn't do online. But how much value is that? Is that really going to affect gameplay in any way or will it just be neat? I can imagine gameplay that requires a 3D screen but if you're going to do that why not just make such a game on the 3DS to begin with? What game would require a flat view on a TV with a seperate individual 3D screen? Even if you made some Wii 2 detective game where you had to look at clues on the 3DS does it really NEED 3D? It would be a neat gimmick at best.
You would need to make a game that requires a 3D screen plus motion controls. Only then would connectivity really be a requirement.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 26, 2010, 01:03:27 PM
chyrstal chronicals cube had some pretty nifty bits if i remember correctly. A game played with three screens and one of them being a touch screen could be really cool.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 26, 2010, 04:58:09 PM
Having your own screen is the whole point of it and online play does that. So what does connectivity really provide? What sort of game ideas are there where you NEED to use connectivity and online with headsets doesn't allow?
single screen online is great, but what if you aren't playing online. What if you have a bunch of buddies over and you're playing Madden. Your buddies are all real competitive on the game and you've made a few of your own plays and you don't want them seeing your playbook. You happen to have your 3DS handy so you link it up and while he is picking his plays on the big screen for everyone to see, you get to flip through your own playbook and call audibles on the fly (by drawing routes on the touchscreen) without anyone seeing what you are doing. Not only would connectivity be advantageous in offline multiplayer, but that kind of control would give you advantages online as well since you can use the touch screen to do custom audibles.
I know you're probably thinking, why not just make that Madden game for the 3DS in the first place? I'm sure there will be a version of it for the 3DS, but this was the Wii2 version I'm imagining, and it would make the Wii2 version much more valuable sitting next to the connectivity-less Xbox360/720 and PS3/4 versions.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on November 26, 2010, 05:15:24 PM
Personally, I see no reason why we can't just have games that have both online play and 3DS connectivity for those that want it, especially if they're made by a company like Nintendo with seemingly limitless development time and resources. Those that want to play with connectivity have what they want, those that (like me) don't want a 3DS can play online and have an enjoyable time their way.
Hopefully, over the next few years even Nintendo will see the benefit of making a game and allowing the user to choose how they want to play it. There's far too little of this style of design in the industry right now, which is bizarre considering how many choices user's have these days in their entertainment.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 26, 2010, 05:50:04 PM
I agree with broodwars that having the option for both is ideal. But this is Nintendo and I know that with them options aren't an, um, option.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 26, 2010, 07:55:44 PM
I agree with Ian about the practicality of it. I is a cool idea, and will work really well with some games...but online is just any easier means of getting the exact same gameplay mechanics...or mostly the same mechanics.
And I think Nintendo realizes that as well. They had a couple of games use the feature and then they stopped using it because it just wasn't practical to the gamer.
As Nintendo fans we are looking at ways to branch out, come up with new ideas...and cling to old experiments...but I think this is one experiment that just wasn't that great to begin with.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 26, 2010, 08:15:30 PM
Does anyone remember that list of things that the Wii 2 needs to have that I made a while back? If so, could some one add to it or midify it for me? I want to add to that list thinhs that would make sense for the Wii 2, but I am drawing a blank.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 26, 2010, 08:59:51 PM
I agree with Ian about the practicality of it. I is a cool idea, and will work really well with some games...but online is just any easier means of getting the exact same gameplay mechanics...or mostly the same mechanics.
And I think Nintendo realizes that as well. They had a couple of games use the feature and then they stopped using it because it just wasn't practical to the gamer.
As Nintendo fans we are looking at ways to branch out, come up with new ideas...and cling to old experiments...but I think this is one experiment that just wasn't that great to begin with.
Bu the thing you seems to forget is that you won't always be playing online and that connectivity, in certain games, can give you the same privacy of your own screen while playing local multiplayer. Online and connectivity could be 2 sides of the same coin in regards to playing a game. and with the analog, motion controls and camera of the 3DS, connectivity could go a long way in providing the same experience as online with screen realestate/privacy while playing locally.
We will have tech that is very capable of producing the results that previous hardware couldn't quite realize, so why not at least plan for it and leave the options up to the specific developers that would like to explore them. It's not like it needs to be part of every game and I really think it could actually enhance the experience of quite a few (from FPS's to Simulation Sports to RPG's & MMO's).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on November 26, 2010, 09:14:41 PM
Does anyone remember that list of things that the Wii 2 needs to have that I made a while back? If so, could some one add to it or midify it for me? I want to add to that list thinhs that would make sense for the Wii 2, but I am drawing a blank.
It's your topic and your list. Why don't you man-up and take responsibility for it yourself rather than asking someone else to babysit you? And while you're at it, get a spellchecker.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on November 27, 2010, 03:16:54 AM
I like the idea of connectivity but I don't think it was ever used in a very meaningful way on the GameCube. Four Swords, Pac-Man Vs, and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles are all games that could just as easily be online games. A game that better used the idea was The Wind Waker, at least, in terms of concept. There wasn't enough for the second player to do, so it wasn't very interesting. Still, connectivity is a good way to put a two-player option into a traditionally one-player game because it still allows the player to have the whole screen. All that it needs is a compelling aspect for the second player. There are a pretty limited number of ways it could be used effectively, but hey, it isn't like Nintendo ever uses their accessories for more than a couple of games.
I don't think connectivity is really meant as a replacement for online (and if Nintendo were actually pushing it as such back on the GameCube, it was a mistake). Games would have to be scaled back to run on the lower resolution of the (3)DS screen and different control inputs; Four Swords was basically a GBA game on a GameCube disc.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 27, 2010, 04:04:13 AM
Pac Man Vs. would lose a lot of its charm if it weren't played locally.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 27, 2010, 04:32:43 AM
I don't think connectivity is really meant as a replacement for online (and if Nintendo were actually pushing it as such back on the GameCube, it was a mistake). Games would have to be scaled back to run on the lower resolution of the (3)DS screen and different control inputs; Four Swords was basically a GBA game on a GameCube disc.
You wouldn't have to scale graphics back in games to use connectivity, you would just make assets for the game specifically for the connectivity and therefore already scaled for the 3DS.
But your idea of 2 player games where one is using the 3DS made me think of a game where the 2nd player using the 3DS constantly tried to trip up the main player on the big screen by laying traps and enemies ahead of him just off screen. Think NSMB Wii where the 3DS player is basically doing a level editor just ahead the what is seen on the screen, laying traps, moving blocks, adding enemies. Something like that could be fun.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 27, 2010, 02:03:23 PM
Does anyone remember that list of things that the Wii 2 needs to have that I made a while back? If so, could some one add to it or modify it for me? I want to add to that list things that would make sense for the Wii 2, but I am drawing a blank.
It's your topic and your list. Why don't you man-up and take responsibility for it yourself rather than asking someone else to babysit you? And while you're at it, get a spellchecker.
Sorry, but I wanted to see what all of you want from the Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 27, 2010, 02:22:20 PM
^WTF have we been taking about this whole time?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 27, 2010, 03:08:04 PM
One thing that worries me about the Wii 2 virtual console including Dreamcast games is the abysmal reviews that the games are getting on PSn/XBLA. Crazy Taxi just recieved a "D" rating from 1-Up.com and their review of Sonic Adventures did not get a warm welcome either. Although those games were not very hot in their day, but I would like to see them make it to virtual console some day.
One thing that has been bugging me for a while is whether Nintendo will inlcude an internal hard drive with the Wii 2. It seems as if Nintendo is too timid towards hard drives because of their cost and fragility, but I would argue that including one might not be a bad idea.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 27, 2010, 05:32:28 PM
While I would like to see some connectivity between the Wii/2 and the 3DS, the fact there wasnt any between the DS and Wii doesn't bode well for the future.
There are of course lots of possibilities but those same things were available before the 3DS, so what has changed? Is anyone really missing Wii/DS connectivity? Are there any current or forthcoming Wii games that would benefit from such connectivity?
I'm not saying it won't be done, but I'm wondering what would be Nintendo's motivation? The DS and Wii both sold fantastically and connectivity between them might have taken their numbers higher, and yet there wasn't any. No Pokemon Stadium games, and no FF:CC Wii edition.
I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for a Kinect-like collaboration between the 3DS and Wii/2 I just doubt it (or any other connectivity) will happen.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on November 27, 2010, 05:37:19 PM
They did have a Pokemon Stadium type game on Wii. Other than that I can't think of any more.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 27, 2010, 09:05:10 PM
I think Flash memory is the way to go for the Wii 2.0. If Nintendo placed a 2-5GB flash drive and supported SD cards that would be great storage...then if you wanted more and Nintendo was willing to do it...have an external hard drive option. Though Nintendo could make a special format that prevents it from being used as a hard drive for other devices to help with piracy perhaps.
Though...now that I think about it Nintendo could easily afford to have a 16GB static drive like the Ipods and Ipads have...and that would be plenty...more than enough I would say.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 27, 2010, 09:26:57 PM
I think Flash memory is the way to go for the Wii 2.0. If Nintendo placed a 2-5GB flash drive and supported SD cards that would be great storage...then if you wanted more and Nintendo was willing to do it...have an external hard drive option. Though Nintendo could make a special format that prevents it from being used as a hard drive for other devices to help with piracy perhaps.
Though...now that I think about it Nintendo could easily afford to have a 16GB static drive like the Ipods and Ipads have...and that would be plenty...more than enough I would say.
The biggest obstacle prohibiting Nintendo from adopting hard drives is mainly due to piracy. Although I do see them retaining SD card support and allowing perhaps four GB of flash at the most for internal storage. The only reason I cling to the idea is that storage has been an issue, and is still some what of issue, for the Wii. What better way to elimanate the bitching of consumers then to offer them every storage solution available that makes sense.
Although I do not see Nintendo including a hard drive on their end because they will expect the consumer to have/buy their own.
The classic controller needs to be wireless and become something similar to the Dual Shock 3 or 360 controller. If Nintendo wants to attract hard core games to their new console then they must have a good classic controller to go alog with the Wiimote 2.0.
Would Facebook and Twitter integration be a good idea for the Wii 2? I do not know that much about these two, but they seem like a good idea for online communication.
If Nintendo can not put 3D in their next system, is there anything besides updated motion controls that will push people to cram into the stores in mas droes to pick up the system? I just imagine that as soon as a Wii HD is revealed people will break their backs to get to the store and get one.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 28, 2010, 01:50:20 AM
I agree that memory has been a big issue. Nintendo was very short sided with their memory allocation for the Wii. I look towards Apple's model as the lower static memory over large hard drives as the solution though. 16 GIGS or dare say 64 Gigs of internal memory would be plenty. This would allow Nintendo to create a more liberal policy for virtual console games for memory...and allow for internal memory for more game files...however, it also still needs SD card support for continued success. Another idea would be to drop SD card support and use DS cart sized special memory cards. This could allow virtual console games and even some Wii Ware games to be played on the Nintendo 3DS...and allow Nintendo to make more money off of memory card sales.
I actually don't like the idea of wireless nunchuk controllers or wireless classic controllers. I like simply having to provide batteries for one device the Wii remote and everything else connects and works. I also don't want an internal battery...but rather Nintendo to support the controllers with their own authorized rechargeable battery solution...so I can have cheaper remotes, and the ability to pop in batteries to continue playing if the charge runs out.
I don't think 3D can be put into the system. It isn't a system thing...it is a television thing. The Gamecube could technically do 3D within the system...but the televisions and such were not ready. So, I don't think Nintendo has to "put" in 3D it may just be there by how games are programmed.
Yes, updated motion controls are the future...Nintendo needs to push the limit of motion controls, refine and perfect it. The Wii Motion Plus is great...but still not perfect, and many people have post great ideas how to make it better. Nunchuk support also needs more motion control. I think adding a few additional buttons (1 or 2) and perhaps additional functionality to a few buttons (analog B Trigger and Analog Z triggers) but perfecting motion controls is the biggest concern for Nintendo's next system...even bigger than graphics updates I think.
A Facebook channel? If Nintendo can get a good Web Browser going, and a better channels system I think a Facebook Channel could be cool. However, it is unnecessary. I believe Facebook integration and perhaps even Twitter would be better channels for the 3DS. However, again not necessary.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: UncleBob on November 28, 2010, 03:16:08 AM
But your idea of 2 player games where one is using the 3DS made me think of a game where the 2nd player using the 3DS constantly tried to trip up the main player on the big screen by laying traps and enemies ahead of him just off screen. Think NSMB Wii where the 3DS player is basically doing a level editor just ahead the what is seen on the screen, laying traps, moving blocks, adding enemies. Something like that could be fun.
I SUPPORT THIS IDEA (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=13624.msg189876#msg189876). Make it so![/url]
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 28, 2010, 10:37:31 AM
I think Nintendo is aware of the fact they made a mistake not including on-board storage in the Wii, and that is evidenced by the 3DS. I said it before but I think just like the DS tested the waters for the Wii, the 3DS will test the waters for the Wii2, another reason I think 2011 is too early for the Wii2 to come out.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 28, 2010, 02:28:30 PM
I am thinking about collaborating with NWR for a contest involving everyone on this forum drawing concept art for the Wii 2 and its controllers for a speciel prize. Contestants who participate are then put into a vote and whoever gets the most votes wins a good prize. However, second and third place finalists will still get something, but it will not be as good as the first prize.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 28, 2010, 06:33:46 PM
I think Nintendo is aware of the fact they made a mistake not including on-board storage in the Wii, and that is evidenced by the 3DS.
How so? So far, there hasn't been any report of on-board storage for the 3DS.
Nintendo included about 1.5 GB of internal flash memory for the 3DS and a 2 GB SD card. Frankly, I would have prefered for them to put the extra two GB into the flash chip inside the 3DS because I have enough SD cards in my collection.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 29, 2010, 02:40:30 PM
Quote
I said it before but I think just like the DS tested the waters for the Wii, the 3DS will test the waters for the Wii2, another reason I think 2011 is too early for the Wii2 to come out.
I still think 2011 is the year they should go with but if they really are using the 3DS as a test I can see them going into 2012. But then it's always been me feeling they SHOULD release in 2011. I certainly can't say that they WILL.
Regarding storage, or for ANYTHING, Nintendo just has to think of someone other than themselves for five minutes. They can come up with something that they think is sufficient but then should try to think of how it could NOT be sufficient. What sort of games would this not work with? What could a dev do that would exceed this storage space?
Nintendo's games are usually pretty bug free. That's probably from good software testing. I do some software testing as part of my job and a good testing approach is to try to think outside of the box and think of how a user can break something by doing something unconventional. Nintendo's testers must be very good at thinking like that for Nintendo to have the quality assurance they have. The same methodology should apply to designing the hardware. In this case the developers are the users and they need to think of how a dev could hit a roadblock. Not think of how this works for Nintendo's games but how it could work for someone else's. In what situation would this hardware not cut it? I think Nintendo thinks too much in the optimistic direction where they think of all the awesome things they could do with the hardware. No, think of all the awesome things one couldn't do with the hardware. Then they're not designing a console just for Nintendo, they're designing a console for all developers who may value different things then Nintendo.
The sad thing is that this sort of thinking is quite obvious to us. We don't just play Nintendo games so we can think of other popular games and whether or not they'll work. This controller wouldn't work for game A. This hardware doesn't support the engine for game B. They need a hard drive for game C. Friend codes won't work for the online multiplayer of game D. We do that. Nintendo can do that, too.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 29, 2010, 07:04:15 PM
@ Ian Sane
"Nintendo's games are usually pretty bug free. That's probably from good software testing. I do some software testing as part of my job and a good testing approach is to try to think outside of the box and think of how a user can break something by doing something unconventional. Nintendo's testers must be very good at thinking like that for Nintendo to have the quality assurance they have. The same methodology should apply to designing the hardware. In this case the developers are the users and they need to think of how a dev could hit a roadblock. Not think of how this works for Nintendo's games but how it could work for someone else's. In what situation would this hardware not cut it? I think Nintendo thinks too much in the optimistic direction where they think of all the awesome things they could do with the hardware. No, think of all the awesome things one couldn't do with the hardware. Then they're not designing a console just for Nintendo, they're designing a console for all developers who may value different things then Nintendo."
I agree with you in the fact that if Nintendo could get over their self-centeredness then they could very well have the potential to have one of the most invigorating consoles ever produced at this point that far exceeds any kind of creativity that Sony or Microsoft have up their sleeve. This is why I am so eager to see the Wii 2 because I would to see the return of the glory days when Nintendo ruled the land scape and every third party game had a place on their console. Of course this could all be hog wash, but I would love to see the market swing in Nintendo's favor even more for the next generation because they deserve it.
Honestly, I would not be surprised if some third parties like Square, Capcom, Konami and Team Ninja have prototype development kits for the Wii 2 and western developers such as Activision and EA (no Epic :P: ) have one as well, but Nintendo is more or less in the stage of hearing their feedback before a final design has been authorized. I imagine that this prototype must run basic Wii games in HD with advanced motion plus controls.
Ultimatly Nintendo is going to go all out with the Wii 2, but at the same time try and remain within the parameters set by the Wii, which is to not directly compete with the PS360. Nintendo will still pretend that the Wii 2 is weaker even though many will claim that the system is more powerful than the PS3.
As for launch titles, a timed exclusive Activision published/Bungie developed game (Marathon?) would go a long way in attracting PS360 owners to the new system. However, would Nintendo be willing to pay for timed exclusives considering that they have all the money in the world?
On a recent show, RFN alluded to how many gamers abandoned Nintendo for the HD consoles because Nintendo seems to be too "kiddy." Well, it seems to me that with the addition of Move and Kinect along with such games as Little Big Planet, Sony and Microsoft are casualizing to capture some of Nintendo's loyal fan base. So, the Wii 2 would present a good opprotunity for Nintendo to harden their core audience and capture some its competitor's fans and keep them in focus.
Heck, if Nintendo were to release an HD console and third party support were to become successful, it would not surprise me that people would trade in their PS360s just to preorder a Wii 2. This is where the third party dvelopers will become successful: Fanbase shift from Sony and Microsoft to Nintendo.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 29, 2010, 09:39:17 PM
im not sure about dev kits being out now, i bet they have an estimation of tentative specs that they can work with. I'd expect something a little bit better than ps3/xbox 360, but with Nintendo becoming less concerned with hardware power I can imagine they won't need to be a huge leap. Hardware war grinds to a halt, begin software war.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MegaByte on November 29, 2010, 09:47:47 PM
I think Nintendo is aware of the fact they made a mistake not including on-board storage in the Wii, and that is evidenced by the 3DS.
How so? So far, there hasn't been any report of on-board storage for the 3DS.
Nintendo included about 1.5 GB of internal flash memory for the 3DS and a 2 GB SD card. Frankly, I would have prefered for them to put the extra two GB into the flash chip inside the 3DS because I have enough SD cards in my collection.
The 1.5GB thing is only a rumor so far, and doesn't support the idea that Nintendo is going to fix storage problems. 2GB is pretty tiny nowadays, and certainly they'd include less than that in the system, so 1.5GB does sound like a real possibility. Obviously, they're including the SD card because they're cheaping out (SD is normally much slower, and thus cheaper, and there's probably a surplus of 2GB cards at this point). The DSi only included 256MB, and while it supports SD, you still can't run games from the card. Even with Wii, it has to copy the files into main memory before executing, and they've had many years to fix the problem. So, I'm not expecting any great advances, though I hope there are.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on November 29, 2010, 10:48:30 PM
If 2GB is tiny, 4GB isn't much better, and yet MS manages to sell the 360 with that much memory to people...
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 29, 2010, 10:54:31 PM
If 2GB is tiny, 4GB isn't much better, and yet MS manages to sell the 360 with that much memory to people...
They want you to pay $150 for their bigger hard drives when you can easily get one much cheaper. Nintendo does not want to fall into this category, but they have to get with the times in regards to storage.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2010, 03:23:36 PM
Quote
On a recent show, RFN alluded to how many gamers abandoned Nintendo for the HD consoles because Nintendo seems to be too "kiddy." Well, it seems to me that with the addition of Move and Kinect along with such games as Little Big Planet, Sony and Microsoft are casualizing to capture some of Nintendo's loyal fan base. So, the Wii 2 would present a good opprotunity for Nintendo to harden their core audience and capture some its competitor's fans and keep them in focus.
I think what happened with the Wii is that Nintendo has lost the "gamer culture". A lot of people of all ages play videogames but there is very much a culture of gaming geeks that would describe themselves as "gamers". My 40 year old female co-worker who owns a Wii would never describe herself as a "gamer". There is a certain subculture and as people on a videogame related forum, discussing videogames, we're part of the culture. Think of it as the audience that gets the humour of Penny Arcade.
The Wii is kind of irrelevant to gamer culture. At best it's the system you have to play the handful of Nintendo first party titles released each year. The PS3 and Xbox 360 however are very relevant to gamer culture. Move and Kinect are not, for like the Wii they are seen as very much as casual oriented. But despite this the PS3 and Xbox 360 remain relevant with gamer culture. It is not the presence of casual-oriented titles that drives this market away but rather the absense of gamer-targetted titles (or core games or hardcore games or whatever you want to call it). The Wii lost this market because of a lack of games that interested it.
I guess the question is whether or not Nintendo cares that they lost this market. But with the 3DS it seems likely that they do and want this group back. There is no reason why they couldn't have both. But they have to be careful with the Wii 2's design.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 30, 2010, 05:49:18 PM
@ Ian Sane
"I guess the question is whether or not Nintendo cares that they lost this market. But with the 3DS it seems likely that they do and want this group back. There is no reason why they couldn't have both. But they have to be careful with the Wii 2's design."
At first Nintendo seemed like they did not care if they lost this market or not, but I would bet that they wish they could reclaim the hard core fans again. I mean this market has a large cash incentive for Nintendo to tryand tap into for money.
I may be seeing things, but I was just at Gamestop and could not help but notice that the PS3 and 360 slim seem to be advertised in the same way that the Wii has been advertised all along. This is especielly true since Move and Kinect have been released. As I said before, this would present a perfect opprotunity for Nintendo to capture the hard core base once again. Let Sony and Microsoft have Nintendo's casual left overs and then Nintendo could pick up a hard core base for the Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on November 30, 2010, 10:23:52 PM
i think some people need to take breaks from gaming to look at it from the outside.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on November 30, 2010, 10:47:36 PM
As I said before, this would present a perfect opprotunity for Nintendo to capture the hard core base once again. Let Sony and Microsoft have Nintendo's casual left overs and then Nintendo could pick up a hard core base for the Wii 2.
You're assuming, of course, that Microsoft and Sony are losing their core audience in the process of advertising these casual peripherals, and that this "lost" core audience would jump at the chance to flock to Nintendo, a company that has a spotty record of consistently having such games in the Wii generation (especially from 3rd parties). As a PS3 and 360 owner, I'm happy with my consoles. Unlike the Wii, I don't find myself continually irritated at the games that are released on those platforms or the companies that own them. My Wii is essentially my 3rd console, played on the rare occasion that something more interesting is released on it than what I'm currently playing on the other two. And unless Nintendo can show 3rd parties that 3rd party core-oriented games can sell on the Wii 2 (after they didn't on the N64, GameCube, or Wii), the Wii 2 would likely be my new 3rd console no matter what specs Nintendo shoves into it.
That's really the key if Nintendo wants to expand beyond their casual-centric market next generation: I'm sick of Nintendo always promising that if they release a console, the 3rd parties will return with quality software. It's time for them to back that up with more than just words, and that means not only building a console that actually caters to 3rd party needs (including standardized onlinesupport), but also establishing strong ties with 3rd parties and encouraging the sales of 3rd party software (rather than their current attitude of "well, if a 3rd party game sells well, that's great. But we're Nintendo, our stuff sells, and we make money no matter how well your game sells! So you're on your own!"). I also wonder how Nintendo's Japan-centric company focus will play with western developers next generation, who are the future of the gaming industry as Japan continues to show why they only make up 10% of the industry now.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on November 30, 2010, 11:25:27 PM
@ Broodwars
"I also wonder how Nintendo's Japan-centric company focus will play with western developers next generation, who are the future of the gaming industry as Japan continues to show why they only make up 10% of the industry now."
What better reason to warm up to western developers?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 01, 2010, 04:40:36 AM
developers who have a great idea will make a great game
suits will try to cash in and make knock-offs in the now well established genre
fans will tire of this genre
the oriignal developer will over-kill the genre
developers will blame Nintendo for their shitty game 3 years in
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 05, 2010, 10:54:49 PM
One thing that Nintendo could do to make the Wii 2 motion controller truelly unique is to replace the rumble vibration feature with the piezoelectric sensor material (artificial muscle) that BnM mentioned before about the 3DS screen. Each individual motion could have its own force feedback sensation and if Nintendo is intending on resurrecting the vitality sensor, they could combine the technology so that certain amounts of feedback is registered by your heart rate.
Does this only work with LCDs? Basically the artificial rumble reacts differently to which ever way it is being swung.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on December 06, 2010, 05:03:33 AM
Workout machines often take your pulse just from a grip. Maybe that could work.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 06, 2010, 10:00:12 AM
Workout machines often take your pulse just from a grip. Maybe that could work.
I think it would be in Nintendo's best interest to delay WiiRelax until they can put the vitality sensor either built directly into the grip of the Wiimote (an idea we've had since a long time ago) or somehow put it into the condom that goes around the wiimote.
The way it's setup now looks like such a limited item ad EA has already beat them to that anyway with EA Sports Active 2. It's time to do it differently. and putting it into the condom would be a cheap way to make it use of it and not even notice that it's there or have it be disabling or uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stratos on December 07, 2010, 07:34:05 AM
They should just save WiiRelax and incorporate it into the next system. They could go the DS route and give a variety of new features for devs to play with in the system. We get a year or so of games forcing all of the new stuff into games then we start seeing the different titles and genres falling into a comfortable balance like we see now with the DS.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2010, 02:13:38 PM
That is sort of what I was implying, delaying WiiRelax and the Vitality sensor for the next system (which I believe is coming early 2012).
If they make a Wiimote2.0 like I described and then had the vitality sensor woven into the wiimote condom that also came with every remote, then every player would have would have all the tech from the start creating a situation where 100% of the userbase can participate.... always.
Every Wii2 would have: A Sensor Bar 2.0 which includes: -group chat enabled from the start using the built in mic(individual headsets optional). -a 3D motion camera (3DS connectivity built in). -IR camera for detecting the Wiimote2.0 (see my designs) -IR lights for the Wiimote2.0 to track
A Wiimote2.0 which includes: -MotionPlus+ built in -2 extra buttons (3 & 4) -IR/LED strips (for IR camera to track the wiimote)
A Wiimote Condom2.0: -Vitality sensor woven in
A Nunchuck2.0 which includes: -IR strips for the Sensor Bar2.0 to track the nunchuck -MotionPlus+ also inside
A ClassicControllerPro2.0 -Now compatible with GC games and modeled more after the GC controller in shape, not buttons setup.
With a setup like that I think Nintendo would have all their bases covered and the sky is the limit at that point. I really don't think there is any more input options and Devs would have our entire being from movement to heart rate to pointer to voice control at their disposal. All Nintendo needs to do is deliver a system that is capable of using all of that at the same time while also pushing a game at complexity level much higher than what PS360 is capable of today.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Shorty McNostril on December 07, 2010, 04:05:44 PM
That is assuming of course that the next system has a remote set up.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 07, 2010, 05:10:36 PM
I think it's a little premature to suggest that Nintendo should make the vitality sensor standard in every Wii 2 when they have not even released it for the Wii 1 yet and have not announced any games for it.
Putting something like that in there would raise costs. Do you want controllers to cost more because of some feature that Nintendo has never even used before? Would you pay more for the console itself? What if Nintendo had to sacrifice something else to fit it within the price structure they want?
There is some flexibility in putting every feature under the sun into the standard hardware but it all adds up in cost so you have to pick and choose what should be standard and what should be a peripheral. The vitality sensor isn't even something you can actively control a game with. You can't control a game with your heartbeat so 99.999999% of games would not need the feature. It would at best be an interesting extra, like a more obscure version of rumble.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on December 07, 2010, 06:10:32 PM
Ian is right about it being a little premature, but I still like the idea of having it built in. It could be something very cool for developers to work with. The Wii2, and its developers, would benefit greatly from having it at the onset.
My personal idea for the vitality sensor revolves around a game I'm still pissed has not been given another chance: Eternal Darkness.
What if the new ED (or for that matter any horror game, and btw what happened to that black and white horror game that was announced for Wii way back?) used the vitality sensor to realize what 'horror' moments scared you most, and then based on that was able to scare you more by scenes specifically tailored to your fear.
For me, the 'scene' that scared me most in ED was when I walked into a room and my head and limbs seemed like they were being shot off by some unseen force. Now, the second time that happened I was prepared, but if the game had utilized other character affecting 'scares' as opposed to environment alteration or things popping out I would have been a lot more scared than I was during other hallucinations in the game.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2010, 06:15:09 PM
The cost of something like that I wthink would be very minimal and the whole point of including it like that was that it's so late in the Wii game, why spend money on yet another peripheral that will only have 1 or 2 games released for it, especially when EA has already beat you to the punch on a finger clip pulse reader, when you can make it a major bullet point for the next system instead.
There have many ideas on what the V sensor could be used for and some of it sounds interesting, so if Nintendo could make it a standard in every controller bought and the concept catches on through unique software designed to take advantage of it, then that is just one more thing the competition will have to figure out how to copy.
Hey Ian, I heard Nintendo's Revolution is gonna use motion controls and a pointer. It actually looks kinda like a remote control.
Quote from: Ian Sane
Putting something like that in there would raise costs. Do you want controllers to cost more because of some feature that Nintendo has never even used before?
yeah you're right, that does sound stupid.....
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on December 07, 2010, 06:43:46 PM
'What will Nintendo do next generation?' is a question that should be preceded with 'Who will Nintendo focus on next generation?'
It's strange, being a fan of Nintendo all this time, but if I were head of Nintendo I would pretty much abandon us. I would take this generation and damn near repeat it with a few tweaks. **** enthralling HD adventures. **** huge online FPS. **** classical gaming as a whole (except for our brands of course). The real money maker is suckering in non-gamers. I'd tell my R&D to come up with a new, fun, if shallow, gimmick for our system. Keep the costs low, tweak the problems of last generation a bit, and ship it out.
Sony and Microsoft will try to cater to both, and that is why their gimmicks will fail. Let's face it. The Wii was hardly successful because of us. It was successful because Wii Sports was fun, but more importantly, fun and accessible.That is why I would cater exclusively to non-gamers. As for our brands, I would shoe-horn motion controls in the best way, but still shoe-horn them in.
And I hope not, but I think Nintendo is about to do that. Their handhelds are for the gamer, but their consoles will now and forever be for the family. Because that was always their goal, even if they only just reached it with the Wii.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 07, 2010, 06:44:40 PM
i dont think a future controller would need the condom, it would have some contour and ridges built in to avoid slippage and create the right friction.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 07, 2010, 07:23:15 PM
I think anyone who thinks the vitality sensor, or something like it, will be used for horror games and such is being way too optimistic. Nintendo will use it for exercise games and squat else and then third parties will use it for exercise games and squat else because they all just follow Nintendo's lead.
What innovative things has Ninendo done with their "real" games this gen? We just get the same old franchises in that department. The new ideas are used in Wii series. Nintendo's priorities are such that they come up with these unique accessories entirely for casual based stuff. They come up with a cool feature and their first thought is mini-game comps and simplified controls for beginners and casuals. They don't make the Wii Wheel and bust out their own Gran Turismo, the purpose is to make Mario Kart more accessible. They have the most obvious FPS control scheme and have only used it for Metroid Prime, which they have since rejected in favour of Other M. They have this balance board and they don't use it for 1080 Snowboarding but rather an exercise title. So don't have any delusional idea that if they put in the vitality sensor as a standard that they're going to revolutionize survival horror. That is not Nintendo's focus.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 07, 2010, 07:36:57 PM
The player has to grip the controller, so if there are two contacts on either side of the controller that the player grips, than that would act as the vitality sensor without having to wear that stupid ass thing on your finger. This is something that could be added very easily. It might also be why suddenly the idea just disappeared this e3, they have a better implementation of it that will work out well in the long run.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 07, 2010, 08:13:29 PM
The player has to grip the controller, so if there are two contacts on either side of the controller that the player grips, than that would act as the vitality sensor without having to wear that stupid ass thing on your finger. This is something that could be added very easily. It might also be why suddenly the idea just disappeared this e3, they have a better implementation of it that will work out well in the long run.
What I was talking about was how the built in vitality sensor could record how the player responds to different sensations created by the artificial muscle tissue technology I mentioned before.
Imagine playing Zelda HD and Link is standing in a flowing stream. The artificial muscle would vibrate in a soothing fashion representing flowing water or the feeling as if you are putting your hand into a flowing stream. The V-sensor then responds to the player's sensation by either increasing the flow of water or the wind, which create another sensation for the AM to register to the player.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 07, 2010, 08:34:21 PM
um yeah, my last post was in response to Ian...um...
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThomasO on December 07, 2010, 08:57:32 PM
what happened to that black and white horror game that was announced for Wii way back?
You mean Sadness? It was cancelled around a year ago. They couldn't make any deadlines because nobody on the development team could decide what they wanted to do.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on December 07, 2010, 10:41:29 PM
Yes I did mean Sadness, and now I remember it being it canceled.
Nintendo has been pretty short sighted with its peripherals, but part of that is what someone alluded to saying Nintendo shouldn't worry about core gamers and focus on casuals. A casual is glad to buy a WiiFit and use the balance board only to exercise, since that is why they bought it, while core gamers clamour for more uses.
Nintendo probably (and I think correctly) assumes that things that appeal to the casuals won't appeal to the cores. I sure as hell didn't buy any extra WiiWheels, and have only once used it.
So why would Nintendo make core games for a casual peripheral?
The fps argument is invalid because Nintendo does not make fps's. The Prime series was a one off thing, and it ended just as promised.
WiiSpeak is a valid argument, because even as a casual peripheral it seems to be failing.
Another problem is 3rd parties. That Tony Hawk game could have used the balance board, but the popularity of Rock Band and Guitar Hero has shown the benefit of releasing your own peripherals (despite Harm onix hemorraging money).
I think (and hope) for a lot of reasons the vitality sensor will be different, including that EA beat them to the punch with the exercise angle.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 07, 2010, 11:06:43 PM
What innovative things has Ninendo done with their "real" games this gen? We just get the same old franchises in that department.
You're mostly correct on games to date, but don't forget that Zelda SS is coming. If they nail it, this game could potentially have a profound impact on where the Wii goes in the next few years. Sadly, I don't think it will be a "mega-hit" - but only for reasons unrelated to motion control (i.e. the same reasons TP and WW failed to move any systems). However, and this relates to discussion in other threads, I don't think you can say the Wii is finished, until after this game has been released.
Secondly, I disagree with your assessment that we only get the same franchises for "real" games. What do you call Wii Sports/Resort? Now before you call it a "casual" title, let me ask you how you would categorize Pilotwings? To me, these games are very much similar in spirit.
We don't get enough original games, I agree, but there have been some.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 07, 2010, 11:17:05 PM
Skyward Sword has the potential to justify the Wii's existence: a full gamer game (Zelda for gods sake) with total motion control. The thing is, if they nail it, there's really nowhere for the Wii to go from there. There's no way to top that. That could be a part of why Nintendo's been saving it for last, and evidence that they've got a new system coming soon after since it's all downhill from there.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on December 07, 2010, 11:44:09 PM
^^^
That made absolutely no sense. Seriously, did you even write it?
SS to justify the Wii's existence? Here's a better question. How many Wii's have sold world wide?
And if SS nails it, how is that a bad thing? If anything, it'll show these developers how to do a "gamer's game" right.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on December 07, 2010, 11:45:21 PM
Galaxy just swooped in and raped the entire platforming genre. I'd say Nintendo innovated there.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 07, 2010, 11:48:07 PM
It wouldn't be downhill from there, in your scenario insanolord. Instead, it would be confirmation that dedicated motion control in core titles can move systems. If anything, it would encourage Nintendo to put Motion+ into any games that could benefit from it. It might even inspire them to create new original core games around Motion+, although the timing of such things would suggest that they'd likely be ready only when the next console is out.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 07, 2010, 11:51:52 PM
That made absolutely no sense. Seriously, did you even write it?
SS to justify the Wii's existence? Here's a better question. How many Wii's have sold world wide?
And if SS nails it, how is that a bad thing? If anything, it'll show these developers how to do a "gamer's game" right.
I meant justify it to gamers, not to the general population. And it's not a bad thing, it's a great thing, but it sets the bar higher than anybody else is going to be able to reach, and therefore it will be time to move on to something new.
It wouldn't be downhill from there, in your scenario insanolord. Instead, it would be confirmation that dedicated motion control in core titles can move systems. If anything, it would encourage Nintendo to put Motion+ into any games that could benefit from it. It might even inspire them to create new original core games around Motion+, although the timing of such things would suggest that they'd likely be ready only when the next console is out.
I'm not saying there couldn't be good or great games after Zelda, just that there's no way to top it with the current hardware
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on December 08, 2010, 12:08:41 AM
I still don't understand your logic. Mario 64 set the bar extremely high, yet we still got games that utilized the analog stick well.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 08, 2010, 12:28:01 AM
I'm not saying there couldn't be any good games past that point (though there won't be, because publishers aren't going to greenlight big MotionPlus games until seeing something like Zelda succeed, and, like Guitar Smasher said, those games would undoubtedly be pushed to later hardware due to their development time). What I'm saying is that it means it's time for new hardware, because Zelda (assuming they nail it) will have achieved everything possible with the current system.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 08, 2010, 01:10:01 PM
Quote
What do you call Wii Sports/Resort? Now before you call it a "casual" title, let me ask you how you would categorize Pilotwings?
The Wii Sports games are intentionally restrictive and shallow in depth to specifically attract casuals. It has a baseball game where you can't even play nine whole innings or field! The options are very limited and each mini-game is very limited in scope with little variation. Pilotwings in comparison does not intentionally restrict its complexity or depth to attract a wider audience. Pilotwings is not dumbed down, Wii Sports/Resort is. I'm not even saying that to insult the game, I just can't think of another way to describe it. The game is intentionaly simplified for a target audience that Nintendo feels will be turned off if the game has too much complexity. That is what makes a game casual, when you restrict the game's potential on purpose to attract beginners, unskilled players or children and do not provide options for skilled or experienced players.
Original Tetris is not casual. Tetris with unlimited spin and no way to turn it off is.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 08, 2010, 03:37:50 PM
@ Ian
Nintendo would be smart to not go with Wii Sports 2 as a single game compilation of various sports that offer limited playability like the original Wii Sports, but offer each sport as a full game. For example, Wii Sports: Baseball has the feel of a real base ball game. Nintendo did release their own seperate sports titles for the NES and they should do the same for the Wii 2.
Also, a quote from some one named EdEN from the Infendo forum has made me think about the Wii 2 being HD:
"Nintendo has already stated that their next console will indeed be HD… but if you read between the lines that means it will display at 720p at most thus reducing costs. Displaying at 1080p and 60 fps would drive up the price of the console to consumers and 720p 60 fps is just fine for gaming."
When I realized that the Wii 2 was going to be HD, my ambitious side told me that they would go all the way to 1080p, but after I considered Nintendo's business policies towards cheapness it seems more in Nintendo's nature to stay in the range of 720p. However, if Nintendo wants third party support to increase then 1080p sems the way to go for their next console.
As for Skyward Sword being the Wii's swan song, what better title to close a consoles reign than a Zelda title? Of course this game does not mean the end of the Wii, but it does represent a bridge between the Wii and its successor in regards to motion controls. Of course it seems as if third parties are done with original titles this far and the only thing we will get from them is sequels to all the titles we have already gotten from them thus far. If this is the case, I would rather wait for DKCR 2, Goldeneye 2, Epic Kirby 2 and Epic Mickey 2 as launch titles for the Wii 2. As for Nintendo, they may have not given up on the Wii, but I would bet that they are alreadt planning more for the Wii 2 in terms of development then Wii itself.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 08, 2010, 04:53:48 PM
Quote
When I realized that the Wii 2 was going to be HD, my ambitious side told me that they would go all the way to 1080p, but after I considered Nintendo's business policies towards cheapness it seems more in Nintendo's nature to stay in the range of 720p. However, if Nintendo wants third party support to increase then 1080p sems the way to go for their next console.
This depresses me a little. We're all talking about the next gen and all have our ideas of what Nintendo should or shouldn't do. What I realistically want is for Nintendo to be as core-gamer-friendly as the other consoles are. This means more options and flexibility and, most important of all, healthy third party support. But when I think about it the odds of Nintendo achieving this is just insanely unlikely. I would actually consider it a fluke if Nintendo pulled such a feat off. The reason why is it is so un-Nintendo. Nintendo's problems are pretty much all self-inflicted. It isn't like the isolated mistake here or there or outside factors screwing things up. It's almost always Nintendo being lazy or cheap or stubborn or greedy or intentionally ignorant about something. If Nintendo were actually capable of achieving with the Wii 2 what I would like them to, they would have done it like ten years ago with the Gamecube. There has never been any real obstacle to overcome. The oppurtunity has always been there. Nintendo, as they are now, is just incapable of doing so. It would take some sort of major change in direction from the company to do so. I'm talking like management shakeup with people from completely outside the company coming in.
This 720p thing? Yeah, they'll do it. They'll cheap out. It may cost them third party support but they won't care. It isn't how they think. I feel I must assume that Nintendo will do the absolute bare minimum. The hardware will be the cheapest and weakest they feel they can get away with. All features will be implemented in a unique Nintendo way, regardless of whether or not it makes sense to do so. The first party lineup will be family-friendly with any games targetted outside this demographic being a token effort at best. All unique features will be designed based on their gimmicky marketing potential instead of practical use and Nintendo will shoehorn said features into every game they can. NCL will call all the shots and design everything entirely based on the current market in Japan.
What I am hoping for is that none of these will be crucial. The hardware won't be so bad as to make it completely incompatible with multiplatform releases (the Cube was multiplatform friendly), the "Nintendo way" of doing routine things like going online will be easy enough to adapt to, the controlller still functions well as a controller even with gimmicks attached, and third parties will make games in all genres and styles without Nintendo having to lead the way (in other words despite Nintendo's marketing being nearly entirely focused on casuals, third parties for some reason don't pigeonhole the system as being only for casuals). I'm hoping for a perfect storm of sheer luck where the console overcomes Nintendo's incompetence. I do not trust Nintendo for a second to do this right. Even if they fluked out wouldn't the next gen just have the same problem? There is no way they could flukily avoid self-sabotage two times in a row.
They have to actually change. They have to admit their faults and fix them. But why would they do that? The Wii let them avoid addressing any of their faults by finding success with a market that didn't know better or care. Did Nintendo address any of the problems with the Cube? Did they address any of the problems core gamers had with them? No, they found success with a new audience instead. And if this audience will make them profitable next gen, then there is no incentive for Nintendo to change. Thus it will be a happy accident if the Wii 2 addresses the shortcomings of the Wii 1. To change, Nintendo would have to be facing death. They would only change in a way that pleases core gamers if the support of core gamers was their only way to stay in business.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 08, 2010, 05:18:55 PM
@ Ian Sane
"They have to actually change. They have to admit their faults and fix them. But why would they do that? The Wii let them avoid addressing any of their faults by finding success with a market that didn't know better or care. Did Nintendo address any of the problems with the Cube? Did they address any of the problems core gamers had with them? No, they found success with a new audience instead. And if this audience will make them profitable next gen, then there is no incentive for Nintendo to change. Thus it will be a happy accident if the Wii 2 addresses the shortcomings of the Wii 1. To change, Nintendo would have to be facing death. They would only change in a way that pleases core gamers if the support of core gamers was their only way to stay in business."
The gaming industry as a whole is westernizing and the way I see it is that Nintendo is going to have to adapt to the times in order to survive. They are going to have to have better online, communications and yes, HD, with the Wii 2 if they do not want to end up like SEGA. What has happened is that Nintendo has realized that they can make money via casuals and cheapening their consoles as much as possible, but how long will this last? I do not want them to become the next Sony or Microsoft, but I do want them to evolve their standards not because I am a greedy consumer, but because I am concerned about their life lines.
Nintendo has the capacity and enginuity to become the top dog of gaming once again, but they have to break out of their shell first. The only way to break out of this shell is become a hard core developer. They can keep their casual mind set, but they have to attract third parties as much as possible. The only way to attract third parties at this point to make their console with features that are crucial to gaming these days. Nintendo, this is not the 1980s or 90s any more, this is the 2010s and you are a decade behind and it is time to catch up with the industry!
SEGA, SNK and NEC <---- Nintendo ----> Microsoft, Sony and Apple
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on December 08, 2010, 06:15:22 PM
The problem is that Nintendo tried the core gamer approach for years, and it worked until the 64. Then the GC came out, and was everything a developer should have wanted; 7 buttons, lots of power, internet capable, and the best copyright protection available to the disc format. And how were they were rewarded for that? Being called kiddy and pretty much abandoned by 3rd parties.
So with the Wii, Nintendo said, screw you, we're going to do things our way and prove we still got it, and they have done it. Not in a way that we as core gamers like, but nonetheless they have proved their worth when every was saying they should become like Sega and only do games. Their 'core' games sell like mad, right alongside their casual games. All that's missing is 3rd party developers who had been ready to write-off Nintendo.
Despite all of our complaining and doubt, the Wii still sells strongly, so what reason does Nintendo have to change strategy? Why go crawling to people who didn't want anything to do with their system until it was sold out for two years? Especially when they've manged to do well without them.
Personally, I expect Nintendo to surprise us with the Wii2 just as they did with the Wii, and push the system on that innovation and the promise of great games, just as they did with the Wii. 3rd parties are in third place when it comes to priorities for the Wii2.
I know they consulted developers on the 3DS but I still think that was in response to the recent successes of the PSP and that people are much less likely to have two portables, while buying a Wii for Nintendo games and another console for everything else isn't farfetched.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on December 08, 2010, 06:45:56 PM
MJ has the right idea.
Nintendo has always been about let's make something that everyone can enjoy. With their consoles, it's games that can be played by everyone. With their handhelds, it's games that are for everyone. It's subtle, but the difference is huge.
For consoles, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "Make the game simple and accessible. I want everyone in the house to be able to play it! So even if grandma would like to play, she can. "
For handhelds, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "We need a game for women over 30. We need a game for people who love RPG's. We need a game for etc. etc. etc."
I expect them to ride this mentality till it doesn't work anymore. Then and only then, will they actually cater to console developers.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 08, 2010, 06:59:24 PM
Quote
The problem is that Nintendo tried the core gamer approach for years, and it worked until the 64. Then the GC came out, and was everything a developer should have wanted; 7 buttons, lots of power, internet capable, and the best copyright protection available to the disc format. And how were they were rewarded for that? Being called kiddy and pretty much abandoned by 3rd parties.
I personally consider the N64 and Gamecube to be weak, self-sabotaged efforts that deserved to fail. The N64 was limited by the STUPID decision to use cartridges. Aside from that it might have otherwise been a full effort. At the time I figured Nintendo knew what they were doing but shot themselves in the foot with one really huge mistake. The Gamecube felt very much like a half-assed effort. Nintendo went in with a couple image problems going against it: they were kiddy, had **** third party support, made the same sequels over and over again, were behind the times with technlogy, and there was always long waits between games. Nintendo then proceeded to just pump out the same "kiddy" franchises they always did (including turning Zelda into a cartoon). They made no real effort to improve third party support. At the Cube's first E3 press conference the only third party game they showed off was Rogue Leader. One game? Yeah, that's going to fix the image of poor third party support. And that whole "waiting months between games" thing? Nintendo made sure to reaffirm that stereotype by having a nice huge six month drought of games after launch. The console itself looked like a toy, not helping at all with the kiddy image. They responded to accusations of milking franchises by milking franchises and having a whole campaign called "who are you?" that emphized how they're all about milking franchises. And Nintendo made sure to come across as backwards luddites by not going online when EVERYONE ELSE was doing it. Oh, and they lied about vague online plans for the first few years as well before revealing they weren't doing it at all. The Cube, for all intents and purposes, did not support online games.
At the very least the Cube was just there. Nintendo needs to win everyone back after the N64 but they didn't do anything special to get the old audience back just offered tons of reasons and excuses to be ignored. Aside from the cartridges thing none of the complaints about the N64 era were addressed. It was very much a "we're Nintendo so they'll buy it anyway" attitude and it failed and it deserved to fail.
I can imagine Nintendo saying "screw you" to third parties and core gamers after the Cube but I see that like someone who never practices, trains or excerises who sucks at basketball, blames everyone but themselves, and decides to start their own sport where they'll be the best at everything. Nintendo would have to admit mistakes, improve and work hard to get the videogame audience back but if they targetted a new audience that would cut them way more slack they wouldn't have to do any of that improvement stuff! Yeah!!
Quote
Despite all of our complaining and doubt, the Wii still sells strongly, so what reason does Nintendo have to change strategy?
That's my concern. They probably don't have to change strategy to make a profit. But since I'm not a Nintendo stockholder I don't give a ****. I want them to make a console that suits me and they probably won't. I guess it has been getting to the point where I don't care that much anymore, but they were for a very long time my favourite developer.
Though I think catering to casuals to the point of becoming irrelevant to core gamers is a foolish longterm strategy. The mainstream is fickle and changes tastes easily. If the casual market loses interest in games, Nintendo will need the support of core gamers as they are the only market one can count on to have a continued interest in videogames. Strictly targetting casuals would be putting all their eggs in one basket.
And ultimately Nintendo's problem is that they're just not very user-friendly. They're not friendly to third parties, they're not friendly to the videogame media, and they always enforce all sorts of restrictions on their customers and are notorious for telling their customers what they want. How can a company expect to succeed in the longterm with that kind of attitude?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on December 08, 2010, 07:12:12 PM
Being family friendly isn't the same as catering to casuals, but it is roughly equivalent to making core gamers irrelevant. Any new IP's that Nintendo makes will almost always be family friendly and thus be simple enough to turn off some core gamers. But it isn't like they will drop core gamers altogether or even on purpose. They are expanding out of their niche as any smart company would once competition for that niche becomes to hard fought.
That is why you hate the Wii so much even though you own it, Ian.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 08, 2010, 07:14:46 PM
Quote
For consoles, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "Make the game simple and accessible. I want everyone in the house to be able to play it! So even if grandma would like to play, she can. "
For handhelds, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "We need a game for women over 30. We need a game for people who love RPG's. We need a game for etc. etc. etc."
This is so dead on that I am amazed that no one suggested it before. It makes perfect sense! It also explains why Nintendo has always been so strong with handhelds and so out-of-touch with consoles. The console methodology is flawed. People want variety. With the exception of the Wii, the top selling console or handheld of each gen has always been the one that has the best third party support, ie: largest variety of games. Nintendo needs to realize that to truly make an "everyone" console they need that true variety. Games that everyone can enjoy are really just games that appeal to the lowest common denominator. Making a game that grandma can also enjoy means the game is for grandma. The 17 year old grandson will find it boring. Sony always had the variety and that's what made the Playstation big.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 08, 2010, 07:57:45 PM
For consoles, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "Make the game simple and accessible. I want everyone in the house to be able to play it! So even if grandma would like to play, she can. "
For handhelds, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "We need a game for women over 30. We need a game for people who love RPG's. We need a game for etc. etc. etc."
This is so dead on that I am amazed that no one suggested it before. It makes perfect sense! It also explains why Nintendo has always been so strong with handhelds and so out-of-touch with consoles. The console methodology is flawed. People want variety. With the exception of the Wii, the top selling console or handheld of each gen has always been the one that has the best third party support, ie: largest variety of games. Nintendo needs to realize that to truly make an "everyone" console they need that true variety. Games that everyone can enjoy are really just games that appeal to the lowest common denominator. Making a game that grandma can also enjoy means the game is for grandma. The 17 year old grandson will find it boring. Sony always had the variety and that's what made the Playstation big.
"How can a company expect to succeed in the longterm with that kind of attitude?"
The answer to this is that they wont succeeed in the long term with the kind of business attitude they currently have. I mentioned before that if Nintendo does not get with the times they suffer the same fate as SEGA and I stand by that notion. They HAVE to get with the times! There is no getting around this any longer.
Ian, I agree with that Nintendo needs to take what has been working for the DS and apply it to their home consoles. Variety is the spice of life and in the gaming industry this is very much the case. Look at all the good third party games for the DS and then compare it to the Wii. Pretty abysmal, right?
One thing that is having a profiund influence on Nintendo's home conolses since the N64 is pirates. They are very paranoid that some one is going to copy their stuff. They have a right to this sentiment, but they have no right to stifen their loyal fans in the process.
The Gamecube was in a technical sense powerful enough for third parties to develope adequatly for, so if the machine had a differant appearance (no handle ::) ) then would it have gotten better support? I mean I am a graphics gamer, so if certan PS2 games had been on the GC with supperior graphics then I would have bought them right away.
I have to wonder if Nintendo's kid image is not manifested so much by Nintendo themselves but by their fanbase? I mean do all the soccer moms who see Nintendo as the only tried and true family console on the market helping to keep it casual? I have read that Reggie practically begged Take Two to put GTA on the Wii. Look at all of the uproar that came about Madworld being on the Wii from some mothers association. Nintendo does not want to deal with mature content, but if third parties were successful with their own mature titles, Nintendo would not mind getting a cut of their money. This would put them at odds with soccers moms and this is why they have been dabbling with casualization for so long.
Does any one remember the part in Twilight Princess when Link meets the great fairy and she is topless with her hair cover her-um-assets? This is the closest to mature content they have come to that I have ever seen from them.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on December 08, 2010, 08:04:43 PM
LOL Those great fairy's are some freaks aren't they? Was it OOT where she was basically in doggystyle position? Funny ****.
I love how you guys are so certain that Nintendo will fail if they don't cater to third parties even though they've made by far the most money with no help from them at all.
I will concede this though. Nintendo better not get cocky. Keep innovating. That is the true spice of life.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 08, 2010, 08:12:29 PM
@ Unagi
"I love how you guys are so certain that Nintendo will fail if they don't cater to third parties even though they've made by far the most money with no help from them at all."
Yes, Nintendo has made **** tons of money with out the help of third party developers. What I am certain of is that if Nintendo does not modernize itself with their next console then they run the risk of failing. They can not afford another generation of pain in the ass friend codes, online structure/ communication, peripherals, down load speeds, etc, because the market is making people accustom to efficiency and their patcience is wearing thin with Nintendo's habits. I know my patcience is wearing thin as Wii speak.
On a side note, I wonder what kind of sugestive posture the great fairy will have in Skyward Sword? Only a filthy mind could tell that one.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on December 08, 2010, 08:15:38 PM
The Gamecube was in a technical sense powerful enough for third parties to develope adequatly for, so if the machine had a differant appearance (no handle ::) ) then would it have gotten better support? I mean I am a graphics gamer, so if certan PS2 games had been on the GC with supperior graphics then I would have bought them right away.
Unfortunately, as much as I loved my GameCube the console had some major problems with 3rd parties:
1. Ever since the N64 era, Nintendo has been pitiful at attracting 3rd parties to their consoles. I really don't think Nintendo corporate cares about 3rd party support as long as they keep making money off their own hardware and software. They aren't willing to incentivize companies for exclusives like the other two platform holders are willing to do, and they haven't been all that fond of attracting their own fanbase to 3rd party titles. Nintendo very much has an attitude that they deserve strong 3rd party support simply because of who they are, something I don't think this generation with the success of the Wii has helped much.
2. Nintendo doesn't really make games for audiences beyond their usual "one size fits all" or "kids" demographics and they don't encourage 3rd parties to fill in the gap, so the GameCube got a rather unfortunate reptutation for not being a profitable home for such games.
3. The GameCube's mini-DVD format really cut down on the file size that companies had to work with on Wii games. Some of the better/bigger 2nd/3rd party games had to be done on multiple discs, including Skies of Arcadia, Baten Kaitos, and I believe RE4. Nintendo's proprietary formats are expensive to use, and even moreso when you have to use several of them. That's still a problem on Wii, too (something I didn't know until today).
4. Nintendo did not support online (and spent a considerable amount of time making people think they would), something that really hasn't changed much.
5. The GameCube controller, as much as I liked it, was not ideal for many games outside of Nintendo's own, which it was designed for. The button were oddly-shaped and positioned for 3rd party titles, making direct porting somewhat more difficult than it really should have been.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Stogi on December 08, 2010, 08:17:05 PM
Kytim: Modernize is one thing. Completely changing your strategy is another.
You really think that if Nintendo could repeat the last five years, they wouldn't?
As for the fairy ahaha how ironic is it that link is holding a skyward sword?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 08, 2010, 08:36:52 PM
The Gamecube was in a technical sense powerful enough for third parties to develope adequatly for, so if the machine had a differant appearance (no handle ::) ) then would it have gotten better support? I mean I am a graphics gamer, so if certan PS2 games had been on the GC with supperior graphics then I would have bought them right away.
Unfortunately, as much as I loved my GameCube the console had some major problems with 3rd parties:
1. Ever since the N64 era, Nintendo has been pitiful at attracting 3rd parties to their consoles. I really don't think Nintendo corporate cares about 3rd party support as long as they keep making money off their own hardware and software. They aren't willing to incentivize companies for exclusives like the other two platform holders are willing to do, and they haven't been all that fond of attracting their own fanbase to 3rd party titles. Nintendo very much has an attitude that they deserve strong 3rd party support simply because of who they are, something I don't think this generation with the success of the Wii has helped much.
2. Nintendo doesn't really make games for audiences beyond their usual "one size fits all" or "kids" demographics and they don't encourage 3rd parties to fill in the gap, so the GameCube got a rather unfortunate reptutation for not being a profitable home for such games.
3. The GameCube's mini-DVD format really cut down on the file size that companies had to work with on Wii games. Some of the better/bigger 2nd/3rd party games had to be done on multiple discs, including Skies of Arcadia, Baten Kaitos, and I believe RE4. Nintendo's proprietary formats are expensive to use, and even moreso when you have to use several of them. That's still a problem on Wii, too (something I didn't know until today).
4. Nintendo did not support online (and spent a considerable amount of time making people think they would), something that really hasn't changed much.
5. The GameCube controller, as much as I liked it, was not ideal for many games outside of Nintendo's own, which it was designed for. The button were oddly-shaped and positioned for 3rd party titles, making direct porting somewhat more difficult than it really should have been.
From my point of view Nintendo peaked with the SNES and it has been a steady decline in their reputation since that time (depending on your definition). The Wii turned this around to some extent, but the reason why I am looking forward to the Wii 2 because I want it to be the second coming of the SNES. I mean one genre that defined the SNES was RPGs, which is something that the Wii has been lacking. So, flood the Wii 2 with good RPGs and see what happens.
@ Unagi
"You really think that if Nintendo could repeat the last five years, they wouldn't?"
Can they really keep repeating the last five years? I remember Ian sating in another thread that the reason why Nintendo got away with the transition from Gamecube to the Wii was motion controls. If this is the case, then Nintendo will have to constantly churn out innovations to keep this cycle going on. Right now I can not think of any thing that Nintendo could bring to the industry that is fresh due to technical limitations and cost prohibition. I mean 3D TVs are too expensive. Holograms are far into the future and what else do they have? This is why the Wii 2 is going to consist of Nintendo modernizing their consoles.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 08, 2010, 08:42:00 PM
I think Nintendo is changing...but they have to be careful too. I don't think Nintendo will skip out on the 720 and 1080 thing, because this next generation there is NO need to. The technology is already there to make cheap 1080 hardware a reality. Nintendo doesn't have to worry about not breaking peoples budgets to get the hardware required.
Now Nintendo might make 720 the LIMIT that every game must meet to be on the system, and 1080 is not the standard. However, I think this would be a good move for smaller developers.
About Wii Sports 2. I don't think that game really needs to exist. Wii Sports is a game designed to get people wanting to play a new game experience. It should not be a full fledged game, because that isn't the point. The game is more like the iphone Apps than Mario or Zelda. They are amazing fun games to play in short doses that you always want to go back too...just maybe not spend 3 hours playing. This is how they should stay.
Instead, I think Nintendo needs to take the BEST games from Wiiplay, Wii Sports, and Wii Sports Resort, and update them with the latest controls for Wii 2.0 and the newest renditions of Miis. Hopefully with more options to make crazy awesome faces, but without losing the charm. Then to help push the game as must have include 3 new games for everyone to experience...and online play. I know I had mentioned this plan once before but it is such a good idea. If they could include 10 games for the pack in that had a very small development cost but provides immediate value to purchase the new system it would be win/win.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 08, 2010, 08:55:03 PM
I think Nintendo is changing...but they have to be careful too. I don't think Nintendo will skip out on the 720 and 1080 thing, because this next generation there is NO need to. The technology is already there to make cheap 1080 hardware a reality. Nintendo doesn't have to worry about not breaking peoples budgets to get the hardware required.
Now Nintendo might make 720 the LIMIT that every game must meet to be on the system, and 1080 is not the standard. However, I think this would be a good move for smaller developers.
About Wii Sports 2. I don't think that game really needs to exist. Wii Sports is a game designed to get people wanting to play a new game experience. It should not be a full fledged game, because that isn't the point. The game is more like the iphone Apps than Mario or Zelda. They are amazing fun games to play in short doses that you always want to go back too...just maybe not spend 3 hours playing. This is how they should stay.
Instead, I think Nintendo needs to take the BEST games from Wiiplay, Wii Sports, and Wii Sports Resort, and update them with the latest controls for Wii 2.0 and the newest renditions of Miis. Hopefully with more options to make crazy awesome faces, but without losing the charm. Then to help push the game as must have include 3 new games for everyone to experience...and online play. I know I had mentioned this plan once before but it is such a good idea. If they could include 10 games for the pack in that had a very small development cost but provides immediate value to purchase the new system it would be win/win.
Nintendo may not allow any HD limitations for their new console simply to accomodate all developers. This way they feel more accustom and comfortable developing on a Nintendo system.
As for the sports titles, Nintendo would be smart to develop their version of Madden, NBA and all the other sports titles with enhanced motion controls. I could see them having two options for the Miis: classic and modern. The classic is the current model and the modern is a more life like version of the player's Miis.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on December 09, 2010, 01:46:39 AM
Nintendo probably (and I think correctly) assumes that things that appeal to the casuals won't appeal to the cores. I sure as hell didn't buy any extra WiiWheels, and have only once used it.
I'm just curious, but why is this, exactly? Is it simply because it's a shell for the Wii Remote that adds no functionality, or is it because you don't like motion control in games?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 09, 2010, 05:14:09 AM
"As for the sports titles, Nintendo would be smart to develop their version of Madden, NBA and all the other sports titles with enhanced motion controls. I could see them having two options for the Miis: classic and modern. The classic is the current model and the modern is a more life like version of the player's Miis."
This is exactly what Nintendo SHOULD NOT do. Nintendo has tried to have their own version of Sports games and it didn't work. Sega also tried this approach and failed. The simple fact is, people only buy the BEST of the sports genre and competing for licenses is such is a big deal and difficult. Let EA Sports who has a track record for making good sports games handle the sports games. Then let Nintendo make what they make best Nintendo games. When they cross, then they better lean closer towards Nintendo titles than Sports themes, like Wii Sports, Mario Sports and such. However, I do think Nintendo SHOULD work closer with 3rd parties to get exclusive features and designs in their games, and even push to have a hand in developing some games to be more Nintendo. That would be a great partnership. I want more Nintendo partnerships, coming along side 3rd parties and creating new Nintendo experiences than Nintendo wasting complete development teams creating games that can't possibly complete with EA
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on December 09, 2010, 10:52:26 AM
@Mop Because it was a shell that added no functionality. Also, I have big hands and I didn't find the wheel comfortable or useful.
There are smartphones coming out that can output 1080p content to HDTVs, so as someone else mentioned, the tech is cheap and Nintendo would be remiss to include it. Also, the Nintendo strategy is working for Nintendo. Make casual games, have everyone able to play, be family oriented and make tons of money.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 09, 2010, 12:08:17 PM
This is exactly what Nintendo SHOULD NOT do. Nintendo has tried to have their own version of Sports games and it didn't work. Sega also tried this approach and failed.
When did Nintendo's sports games ever fail? Their NES ones almost all sold very well (for example, Golf sold over 2.4 million copies just in Japan), and the Mario sports games all did well. However, add Microsoft and their failed XSN Sports line to your list.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 09, 2010, 01:21:47 PM
Nintendo having their own sports games is fine, provided they also have EA's sports games. Sega ran into a problem where on the Dreamcast the 2K games were it. There was no Madden. Mario sports games can comfortably co-exist with the sports games based on a real leagues.
I look at Nintendo like a sports team that is winning right now but has drafted poorly and has no prospects. As is, everything is cool right now and may be great for years but when the bottom falls out they're going to fall hard. They don't learn from their mistakes and they have tons of fundamental problems and if they don't address that it will bite them in the ass someday. They're not doomed but they're vulnerable. They screw too many routine things up to be consistently successful.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2010, 01:49:06 PM
@ Ian Sane
"I look at Nintendo like a sports team that is winning right now but has drafted poorly and has no prospects. As is, everything is cool right now and may be great for years but when the bottom falls out they're going to fall hard. They don't learn from their mistakes and they have tons of fundamental problems and if they don't address that it will bite them in the ass someday. They're not doomed but they're vulnerable. They screw too many routine things up to be consistently successful."
I totally agree with this statement, Ian. I said it before that what worked for the Wii may not work a second time for Nintendo. They have to adopt industry standards at thi point.
On a side, I was thinking about a reason for why Nintendo should include a better online system and then an epiphany happened when I was brain storming ideas for Super Mario Universe. Basically take the concept of Galaxy and add an online level creator that is accessible enough for a simple player to develop their own Galaxies and then post them online for others to play through. Of course the internet is in some sense a mini-universe in itself, so filling it up with Galaxies would create an exspanisive game play experience. Also, Nintendo could make tons of money by selling us DLC kits to build Galaxies and spotpass could be used in some way. This would be the first platforming MMO.
Imagine an Ian Sane Galaxy, or a Broodwars or Mop It Up Galaxy that is made by them and everyone else can play.
As for Nintendo sports titles, Nintendo would be smart to beat Sony to a motion based professional sports games. I figure that Sony will try and do this with Move.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on December 09, 2010, 01:59:20 PM
On a side, I was thinking about a reason for why Nintendo should include a better online system and then an epiphany happened when I was brain storming ideas for Super Mario Universe. Basically take the concept of Galaxy and add an online level creator that is accessible enough for a simple player to develop their own Galaxies and then post them online for others to play through. Of course the internet is in some sense a mini-universe in itself, so filling it up with Galaxies would create an exspanisive game play experience. Also, Nintendo could make tons of money by selling us DLC kits to build Galaxies and spotpass could be used in some way. This would be the first platforming MMO.
I have a feeling (http://www.amazon.com/LittleBigPlanet-Playstation-3/dp/B001IVXI7C) someone else may have had a similar (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002I0K780/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001IVXI7C&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1E7KXNCJJBYCQZGMTYCD) idea, Kytim. And because this is Nintendo, because someone else may (http://www.amazon.com/LittleBigPlanet-Sony-PSP/dp/B001TOQ8T8/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1291921107&sr=1-1) have had a simliar idea, Nintendo won't do it because they have to do everything their own way...even when someone else's idea works just fine.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2010, 02:07:14 PM
On a side, I was thinking about a reason for why Nintendo should include a better online system and then an epiphany happened when I was brain storming ideas for Super Mario Universe. Basically take the concept of Galaxy and add an online level creator that is accessible enough for a simple player to develop their own Galaxies and then post them online for others to play through. Of course the internet is in some sense a mini-universe in itself, so filling it up with Galaxies would create an exspanisive game play experience. Also, Nintendo could make tons of money by selling us DLC kits to build Galaxies and spotpass could be used in some way. This would be the first platforming MMO.
I have a feeling (http://www.amazon.com/LittleBigPlanet-Playstation-3/dp/B001IVXI7C) someone else may have had a similar (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002I0K780/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001IVXI7C&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1E7KXNCJJBYCQZGMTYCD) idea, Kytim. And because this is Nintendo, because someone else may (http://www.amazon.com/LittleBigPlanet-Sony-PSP/dp/B001TOQ8T8/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1291921107&sr=1-1) have had a simliar idea, Nintendo won't do it because they have to do everything their own way...even when someone else's idea works just fine.
I have actually never played LBP and I know very little about, but it would be a good concept for Nintendo to add their ideas to.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on December 09, 2010, 02:15:08 PM
I have a feeling (http://www.amazon.com/LittleBigPlanet-Playstation-3/dp/B001IVXI7C) someone else may have had a similar (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002I0K780/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001IVXI7C&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1E7KXNCJJBYCQZGMTYCD) idea, Kytim. And because this is Nintendo, because someone else may (http://www.amazon.com/LittleBigPlanet-Sony-PSP/dp/B001TOQ8T8/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1291921107&sr=1-1) have had a similar idea, Nintendo won't do it because they have to do everything their own way...even when someone else's idea works just fine.
I have actually never played LBP and I know very little about, but it would be a good concept for Nintendo to add their ideas to.
But that's the problem: not only did someone else came up with it first, but there's a heavy online component. Because of that, the only way we'd see such a thing out of Nintendo is something insanely convoluted like having to create levels on the Wii 2, transfer them to the 3DS, exchange 3DS friend codes with the people you want do send the level to, exchange the level(s) via 3DSs, and then your friends transfer the levels to their Wii 2 after first exchanging Wii 2 system friends codes with you (for authentication purposes). Oh, and you have to pay 300 Nintendo points for the privilege. Nintendo is just that backwards in how they look at online and how they always feel they need to be "different" and "creative" instead of "practical". Their foolish pride won't let them just iterate and evolve on something someone else created.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2010, 02:23:36 PM
I have a feeling (http://www.amazon.com/LittleBigPlanet-Playstation-3/dp/B001IVXI7C) someone else may have had a similar (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002I0K780/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001IVXI7C&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1E7KXNCJJBYCQZGMTYCD) idea, Kytim. And because this is Nintendo, because someone else may (http://www.amazon.com/LittleBigPlanet-Sony-PSP/dp/B001TOQ8T8/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1291921107&sr=1-1) have had a similar idea, Nintendo won't do it because they have to do everything their own way...even when someone else's idea works just fine.
I have actually never played LBP and I know very little about, but it would be a good concept for Nintendo to add their ideas to.
But that's the problem: not only did someone else came up with it first, but there's a heavy online component. Because of that, the only way we'd see such a thing out of Nintendo is something insanely convoluted like having to create levels on the Wii 2, transfer them to the 3DS, exchange 3DS friend codes with the people you want do send the level to, and then your friends transfer the levels to their Wii 2 after first exchanging Wii 2 system friends codes with you. Oh, and you have to pay 300 Nintendo points for the privilege. Nintendo is just that backwards in how they look at online and how they always feel they need to be "different" and "creative" instead of "practical". Their foolish pride won't let them just iterate and evolve on something someone else created.
I still stand by my belief that the prospect of Nintendo being able to make tons of money via DLC for galaxy creation kits is just seems too enticing for Nintendo to pass up. The only problem with this is that the level creators would have to very accessible for even casuals to use.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on December 09, 2010, 02:55:32 PM
The only problem with this is that the level creators would have to very accessible for even casuals to use.
Why? The people who care enough about games to make levels are not who we refer to as "casuals". Sure, if Nintendo were to make such a game I would want the ability to acquire levels to be very accessible, but I don't want creativity and useability in the level creator engines hampered by Nintendo's insatiable desire to make every aspect of every game they make to be accessible to everyone, regardless of interest or talent. Make the creation engines easy to understand and fill them with depth, but it takes talent and dedication to design a good level. Not everyone has that, and Nintendo should respect the people that put in the time necessary to create good levels rather than dumb it down to something half-assed so that everyone can play with it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2010, 03:00:22 PM
The only problem with this is that the level creators would have to very accessible for even casuals to use.
Why? The people who care enough about games to make levels are not who we refer to as "casuals". Sure, if Nintendo were to make sure a game I would want the ability to acquire levels to be very accessible, but I don't want creativity and useability in the level creator engines hampered by Nintendo's insatiable desire to make every aspect of every game they make to be accessible to everyone, regardless of interest or talent. Make the creation engines easy to understand and fill them with depth, but it takes talent and dedication to design a good level. Not everyone has that, and Nintendo should respect the people that put in the time necessary to create good levels rather than dumb it down to something half-assed so that everyone can play with it.
Nintendo would develop the level creators with the notion that their Mario games thus far have been training their long time fans to develop levels of their own based on how they feel the platforming gnere should be.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on December 09, 2010, 03:03:01 PM
Nintendo would develop the level creators with the notion that their Mario games thus far have been training their long time fans to develop levels of their own based on how they feel the platforming gnere should be.
If that were the case, why would anyone ever purchase another Mario game when you can just go online in Mario Universe and whatnot and download 5 million player-created Mario levels "based on how they feel the platforming genre (spelling corrected) should be?" Nintendo would be killing its own core franchise.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 09, 2010, 05:04:29 PM
Quote
On a side, I was thinking about a reason for why Nintendo should include a better online system
There already is a reason: their current model sucks. It isn't easy-to-use, convenient, flexible or intuitive. I'd say the only things it has going for it is that it is free and it actually exists this time. Nintendo themselves are probably the only people in the entire world that like the way it is set up (almost as if they designed it to benefit themselves instead of their customers).
I think this just shows the problem. Here we are thinking of some other reason for Nintendo to improve their online system like we have to trick them into doing it. It is unacceptably poor, it should be fixed. That's it! That's the entire justification! As Nintendo fans I feel like we get too used to their weird way of thinking and start coming up with complicated outside-the-box solutions to simple problems. This isn't complicated at all. They do it way worse than everyone else and should improve it.
Hell, that's the justification for their third party support. It sucks and as a customer I want it fixed. Give me more storage because the current setup sucks. Give me more demos because the current setup sucks. This sucks on Nintendo's console and doesn't on the other consoles. We're paying customers, we're unsatisfied, so fix it.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on December 09, 2010, 05:27:17 PM
The problem is that while I agree with you, Ian, about such matters, the oh-so-precious casual audience that Nintendo has courted this generation doesn't care about these things. They only buy a couple of games a year, so they're happy just staying with whatever handful of (IMO Shovelware) Wii ____ titles and the occasional Mario or Zelda that Nintendo tosses to them every year. The casuals do not buy as much downloadable software as we do and do not buy much software in general, so they do not care about the storage problem or Demos. The casuals only care about online in that they sometimes purchase $1 Aps for their iPhone, so they don't care about Online. We do, but what we want costs money and Nintendo (as a company) unfortunately apparently cares more about making money than they do having artistic integrity and pushing the boundaries of the gaming experience. Until the casual decide they want what we want, I don't think we're going to see it from Nintendo.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on December 09, 2010, 06:18:24 PM
There sure are a lot of assumptions in this thread about what "casuals" want. I know some people who would be classified as "casuals" by certain self-righteous gamers on message boards who would love to create levels in games like New Super Mario Brothers Wii and who also play games online. Nintendo also is trying to court "casuals" into taking their systems online, the Wii even comes with a video advertising online features and explaining how to get connected. I think that's the problem with these labels is that there really isn't just two clear-cut groups who want this and don't care about that and all that nonsense.
The Wii series isn't shovelware because they are quality titles that Nintendo tailors to make good use of their controllers. It's a sad day in gaming when anything that appeals to one's idea of "casual" is instantly labeled as shovelware.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 09, 2010, 06:20:25 PM
Which Would be preferable for Nintendo to adopt online similar to Microsoft or Sony? I ahve never used either of these features so I am not sure which would be good. Although the virtual console should have an interface similar to Itunes or Amazon.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 09, 2010, 06:21:51 PM
@broodwars
haha, very true. At one time i was a hardcore gamer, and now im a casual. When the economy is bad casual is the way to go, very few people can afford to be hardcore gamers right now. It costs a lot to buy every accessory and every game, and all the download titles. To be a hardcore gamer you have to: have a great job that pays well, but at the same time have enough free time to play games, or be a spoiled kid(like i was in the n64 era), have a crappy job and no aspirations to also have a decent social life, have a sugar daddy or sugar mama, be a married person because between a married couple they can afford games, be a parent because its like a write off if you buy stuff for your kids. Otherwise any aspirations to play games all the time just doesn't work.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 09, 2010, 06:25:50 PM
Casuals play online games all the time on Facebook. Nintendo should want to capitalize on that market by making a better online service.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: broodwars on December 09, 2010, 06:26:23 PM
It's a sad day in gaming when anything that appeals to one's idea of "casual" is instantly labeled as shovelware.
I don't bash on the Wii _____ games for being casual. I bash on them for being little more than proofs of concept, somewhat polished demos of actual games slapped together instead of developing any one of them into fuller, richer experiences. I call them shovelware because they're easy games Nintendo programmers and designers can practically do in their sleep, likely cost little money to produce, have little to no production values, and have very little depth. Can they be fun for 20 minutes or whatnot? Sure, but they're nothing I'd want to play for any extended period of time.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on December 09, 2010, 06:34:41 PM
The Wii Sports series isn't meant to be a fuller, richer experience, it's meant to be a quick pick-up-and-play game and there's nothing wrong with that. Same with Wii Play. Wii Music is supposed to be a simple music game where the musically impaired can still have fun, people who want more depth have Guitar Hero and Rock Band. Wii Fit is for exercising and yoga. Wii Party is a minigame collection so it's got a lot of variety to it.
If these games weren't designed to be what they are then you would have a point, so bashing them because they aren't what you want doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 09, 2010, 06:44:03 PM
yeah i play bejeweled bltz all the time
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Ian Sane on December 09, 2010, 06:46:46 PM
Well, Perm, I don't have oodles of time to play games as much as I used to but when I put some serious playtime into a title I want it to be good. I ain't casual in the sense that the Wii Series turns my crank. I want the same variety and the same quality as I did when I had more time or more disposable income, even if I can't play the same amount of games I used to.
Quote
Which Would be preferable for Nintendo to adopt online similar to Microsoft or Sony? I ahve never used either of these features so I am not sure which would be good. Although the virtual console should have an interface similar to Itunes or Amazon.
I like how both Nintendo's and Sony's are free. Honestly just ditching friend codes would make a world of difference. You should be able to easily setup games with your friends or be matched up with strangers if you prefer. One thing someone on another forum was mentioning that is so simple is how the Wii's online store is so inferior to the other ones. The descriptions are often not very good, demos are rare, you only can see about five games on screen at once and there is no way to just view by text, the screenshots are all really tiny and there are no videos. I never really thought about that but, yeah, that's a pretty weak interface. Little details like that can make all the difference. Nintendo's inexperience due to their luddite attitude towards online last gen hurts them. Nintendo really just needs to catch up to today's online standards.
Quote
There sure are a lot of assumptions in this thread about what "casuals" want.
I honestly think that casuals just want something they can easily get into. I think Nintendo overcompensates huge. Wii Sports doesn't need to be little more than a polished demo. It just needs to be that tennis game where you swing the racket yourself and has to be designed with an interface where you can easily start a quick game. The lack of options and lack of depth I think is largely unnecessary and is probably done more because Nintendo can get away with being lazy. As long as casuals can get the game mode they want to play easily it should be fine. Putting in the OPTION to increase difficulty or customize the game or use more complex controls will not scare them off. Rock Band would be a grand example since it has really high difficulty levels but casuals love it because they can just select an easy setting or play in "no fail" mode. It's a game that truly all gamers love.
I would argue that Wii Music is a good example of the Wii Series being shovelware. The game is full of public domain music and music Nintendo already owns. Is that to cater to casuals or is it Nintendo cheaping out and spending the least amount of money as possible? To me the Wii Series is Nintendo making the least amount of game they feel they can get away with and that's why I hate it. It's everything wrong with shitty Pokemon spinoffs taken to another level.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Mop it up on December 09, 2010, 06:58:59 PM
I honestly think that casuals just want something they can easily get into. I think Nintendo overcompensates huge. Wii Sports doesn't need to be little more than a polished demo. It just needs to be that tennis game where you swing the racket yourself and has to be designed with an interface where you can easily start a quick game. The lack of options and lack of depth I think is largely unnecessary. As long as casuals can get the game mode they want to play easily it should be fine.
I agree with this to some extent, but it depends on the game. Since Wii Sports is a pack-in game, I think it is fine as it is, it doesn't need anything more to it. A stand-alone, full-priced game though, should take an approach similar to Mario Kart Wii, which I feel has the right idea. It has the option of using automatic or manual drifting, which makes it easy for newcomers to pick up without removing the mechanic. It also has a lot of gameplay options like local and online multiplayer, instead of replacing local with online like too many games do these days. Another example is the Super Guide that appears in new Mario games and Donkey Kong Country Returns, which allows games to have challenging stages but offers help to those who want it.
This is one of those things that will take some time before it's done right. Nintendo was probably unsure of where they needed to start to make games accessible to everyone, so they started with the minimum. From here, I think Nintendo will figure out exactly what kind of features they can include in games to appeal to everyone without removing options and depth, and better design their games for all audiences.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 10, 2010, 07:03:11 PM
Nintendo seems to have a habit of imitating Apple, so in what ways will they copy Apple with the Wii 2?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 10, 2010, 08:50:46 PM
They are gonna over price it but people will buy it anyway because it's Apple Nintendo and then force their superiority on others to justify their own over priced purchase?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 10, 2010, 10:53:24 PM
Nintendo seems to have a habit of imitating Apple, so in what ways will they copy Apple with the Wii 2?
Wii2 is a tablet, didn't you hear?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 10, 2010, 11:13:52 PM
Nintendo hasn't really copied Apple in anything beside the look of the hardware. That will probably continue, as well as maybe a bit of influence in the UI (though the Wii's channel layout is already fairly close to the iOS look, and it came out before the original iPhone).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 11, 2010, 12:05:46 AM
Here is how I see Nintendo imitating Apple with the Wii 2:
Nintendo will develop its own OS for the Wii 2 that is similar to Apple's IOS and has an umbrella of connectivity with the 3DS. This OS adopted by Nintendo will crucial to operate the new and improved Wii shop channel, which has an interface similar to the Itunes store (or Amzon.com).
I read some where that Apple is making their latest devices in colors of white, platnium/grey and black, so I see Nintendo releasing the Wii 2 in similar colors to what Apple is making its new machines. I looked over my Ipod Shuffle and made the connection that its white glossy finish is the same as that of the Wii, so I will not be surprised to see the Wii 2 with the same finish as the Ipad or the Iphone.
I mentioned before how the wii 2 will most likely have the same dimensions as the 360 slim, well I would like to add to that assumption. Keeping Nintendo's mimicry of Apple in mind, the wii 2 could also look like a closed Macbook or an Ibook. These units are big enough to house HD components and it seems to fit Nintendo's size MO.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Adrock on December 11, 2010, 02:53:39 AM
As far as I know, Nintendo already develops and has always developed its own operating system for their hardware. The only company I can think of that used an OS not internally developed is Sega with Dreamcast which used an optimized version of Windows CE and apparently, that wasn't even its main operating system.
It sounds like you're just describing what you want to happen rather than basing this on anything in particular. The entire Mac line, besides the white Macbook, is carved out of a solid piece of aluminum. It's sturdier than plastic, but it only really makes sense for the Macbook Pro line because laptops are meant to be carried around so that sturdiness actually serves a purpose. For the iMac, it's just for show. That said, it'd make more sense for the shell of the 3DS to be aluminum, but seeing as it's not only plastic but Nintendo cheaped out again and made the screens, particularly the bottom touchscreen, out of plastic (rather than more scratch resistant glass), I presume Wii 2 will also employ a plastic shell. There's just no real reason for Nintendo to use an aluminum shell for their next console and "it looks cool" is not a good enough reason for typically cost-cutting Nintendo. The only thing Nintendo really copied from Apple was the minimalistic glossy white design for Wii and DS Lite so that imitation is hardly what I'd consider a "habit." Everything else Nintendo does is decidedly anti-Apple. If you just mean colors, then yeah, I think Nintendo is past their whole we-need-to-stand-out-so-let's-make-our-products-purple stage. A black matte finish shell would be my guess as it's simple and likely the cheapest choice.
I actually don't expect Wii 2 to be the same dimensions as the 360 slim. That still seems too large, especially if Nintendo moved away from disc-based media.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 11, 2010, 03:25:21 AM
aluminum is cheap, and probably cheaper than the plastic they use. Maybe Nintendo will do it to be more environmentally friendly.....there was some silly green site lampooning nintendo for their type of plastic.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on December 11, 2010, 08:53:44 AM
Aluminum is not, and will never be, cheaper than plastic.
Also, Nintendo making their consoles small is due to them being a Japanese company, and everything in Japan is smaller. 2/3 of Americans probably can't fit into a Japanese mid-size car.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 11, 2010, 11:29:24 AM
Aluminum is not, and will never be, cheaper than plastic.
Also, Nintendo making their consoles small is due to them being a Japanese company, and everything in Japan is smaller. 2/3 of Americans probably can't fit into a Japanese mid-size car.
Plastic is a petro-chemical, which is dependant on oil. I would bet that the cost of production for plastic spikes when the price of oil goes up. This adds into costs. Unless Nintendo is using some kind of cheaper type of plastic to off set costs.
If Nintendo is going to make the Wii 2 have HD components, then it will have to be bigger than the Wii 2. I remeber a while back I stated that I wanted the Wii 2 to be smaller than the Wii and BnM convinced me that if it is going to be HD then it will have to be bigger than the Wii. I am now convinced that the Wii 2 will have the same size scale to either the PS3 slim or 360 slim. Of course if they wait for the component pieces to get smaller then I could see the Wii 2 being slight smaller, but not much.
I do not see Nintendo abandoning dics based media. They will most likely adopt their holo-discs as their own version of blu-ray or some kind of further modified DVD with a max capacity of 16 GB. I want to say HD-DVD, but that idea has been beaten to death so far.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 11, 2010, 12:56:34 PM
I convinced you of Wii2 size!? I'm not gonna pretend to remember everything I've ever said, but can you link me to that discussion?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 11, 2010, 01:44:57 PM
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on December 11, 2010, 01:47:11 PM
@Kytim
"If Nintendo is going to make the Wii 2 have HD components, then it will have to bigger than the Wii 2."
The Wii 2 is going to be bigger than itself?
I mentioned this before, but, there are smartphones, PMPs, and netbooks that are all smaller than the Wii and can output HD content.
Petro-chemical vs metal has nothing to do with the cost of aluminum and plastic. It's about abundance and manufacturing. Why do you think scrap yards pay people for recycling aluminum? It is an expensive commodity, and will always be more expensive than easily available and manufactured plastic. And you're right about rising costs of petroleum, but because of that they're already looking for viable substitutes that will make plastic continue its manufacturing appeal: low cost.
Edit: And where are you getting this idea of Nintendo using holo discs from? BluRay is already ridiculously large for gaming, and Nintendo has its own disc format for which it does not have to pay licensing fees. If they don't use BluRay for the Wii2, they simply use higher capacity NintenDiscs (made that up).
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 11, 2010, 02:00:43 PM
"If Nintendo is going to make the Wii 2 have HD components, then it will have to bigger than the Wii 2."
The Wii 2 is going to be bigger than itself?
I mentioned this before, but, there are smartphones, PMPs, and netbooks that are all smaller than the Wii and can output HD content.
Petro-chemical vs metal has nothing to do with the cost of aluminum and plastic. It's about abundance and manufacturing. Why do you think scrap yards pay people for recycling aluminum? It is an expensive commodity, and will always be more expensive than easily available and manufactured plastic. And you're right about rising costs of petroleum, but because of that they're already looking for viable substitutes that will make plastic continue its manufacturing appeal: low cost.
I meant bigger than the Wii, sorry.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: MaryJane on December 11, 2010, 02:27:47 PM
Lol, I know what you meant, I was trying to have some fun, mostly so you would know my arguments were not malacious. We all make mistakes like that :)
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2010, 09:07:40 PM
hmm, i dont know a six pack of colas can be as low as $1, and thats significantly more material then needed for a case. I've been out purchasing plastic resin materials, and it was always expensive. I however could never buy in bulk like Nintendo does. Years ago when i turned in my aluminum cans I used to get a couple of dollars, and now i get significantly less.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 14, 2010, 10:30:54 PM
The stresses an aluminum can is subjected to are entirely different than what a console must be capable of withstanding. An aluminum can is essentially a small pressure vessel, whose geometry allows the internal pressure to be evenly distributed in the circumferential and longitudinal directions. This allows the can to be made of very little material, in spite of its relative softness/low strength. Notice how an empty can can be bent in half, or an unopened can can be popped open (the hole in the top) with very little applied load? These are things that you would not want in your case, and would require a lot more material to prevent.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2010, 11:07:12 PM
ish, aluminum cans are made extremely thin. Increase the thickness just a little bit and the properties are different. Oxidize the aluminum and it becomes super strong.
this is made out of about a pound of aluminum. I made it in a sculpting class. It is really really hard, and wont bend like a can. 1 pound of aluminum costs about a dollar or at least did in 2006, id imagine they could use less than that and still have the strength(and then some) of plastic. I'v just seen some electronics as of lately that have had a nice aluminum outside. Also note that even on a soda can the top is really hard, as well as the pop tab or whatever its called
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on December 15, 2010, 12:26:15 AM
ish, aluminum cans are made extremely thin. Increase the thickness just a little bit and the properties are different. Oxidize the aluminum and it becomes super strong.
this is made out of about a pound of aluminum. I made it in a sculpting class. It is really really hard, and wont bend like a can. 1 pound of aluminum costs about a dollar or at least did in 2006, id imagine they could use less than that and still have the strength(and then some) of plastic. I'v just seen some electronics as of lately that have had a nice aluminum outside. Also note that even on a soda can the top is really hard, as well as the pop tab or whatever its called
My point isn't that you couldn't make a case out of aluminum. Pound for pound it's stronger than plastic, no question. Increase the thickness, and the properties do not change but the surface area increases, meaning the stress due to a unit load decreases. So make it thicker, and it can withstand larger forces. But the cost of bulk material, and manufacturing costs are way higher than for plastic.
As for alumina (i.e. oxidized aluminum), yeah it's stronger, but it's also super brittle making it undesirable in many situations.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on December 15, 2010, 12:40:40 AM
What material is the Iphones and Ipads made out of?
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 15, 2010, 12:55:55 AM
What material is the Iphones and Ipads made out of?
Aluminum and Glass
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Kytim89 on January 17, 2011, 08:48:28 PM
Thoughts about the Wii 2 have been bugging me for a while, especially since the 3DS is so close to being on the market. Therefore I have compiled a list of things that the Wii 2 must have once it is revealed.
Storage The Wii 2 must have four to eight GB of internal flash memory. Flash memory has cheapened enough that including no less that four Gigabytes of internal memory seems reasonable for Nintendo to include.
Internal HDD support (2.5 SATA). Nintendo will not provide a hard drive for the Wii 2 themselves, but they will leave it up to the consumer to buy their own hard drive from a third party (Maxtor, Toshiba, Seagate, Western Digital, etc.).
The Wii 2 must also have external storage support (USB flash and HDD) though its USB ports. Consumers will be able to utilize the USB ports of the Wii 2 to use external storage devices for back up.
SD card slot retained from the first Wii.
Graphics
Nintendo’s game design philosophy is that graphics are secondary to game play. However, Nintendo knows that SD graphics are becoming extinct, so they will move onto High Definition gaming for the Wii 2 with a resolution support up to 1080p. It would be easier for Nintendo to make the jump from Wii to 360 then from the Wii to PS3. Although Nintendo will utilize cheaper components to make the leap in graphics similar to the way the 3DS is a cheaper take on the PSP’s technology..
Right now the cost of 3D televisions is too cost prohibitive for Nintendo to include 3D in their next console, but it might be cheap to include it in the Wii 2 and if the price of 3D TVs fall in the next five years then Nintendo could just open 3D up via firmware and have a 3D home console like the 3DS. Controls Advanced 1:1 motion controls. Take the concept of the motion plus and advance it further. This controller system would be Nintendo taking on Sony’s Move controller with better technology.. Wireless Classic Controller Pro with rumble. Taking a queue from Sony and Microsoft’s controllers, Nintendo releases an update of the Classic controller pro that is wireless with rumble capabilities.
Wireless motion controllers similar to the Move controller, but with an IR sensor. The Wii 2 nunchuck would feature rumble as well. Form Factor Form factor similar to the Xbox 360. If the Wii 2 is going to have HD graphics, Nintendo will have to make the system bigger than the current Wii system. The form factor of the Wii 2 would be similar in size and scale to the 360 slim, but instead of a disc tray, the Wii 2 would have a disc slot like the Wii console. Touch sensitive buttons. The 360 slim has touch sensitive buttons, and Nintendo loves touch sensitization, so instead pressing the power, reset or eject buttons on the front of the Wii 2, all you have to do is run your finger across the button to activate its function. The form factor of the Wii 2 would include three USB ports for accessories and external storage devices and built-in HDMI and Ethernet port to supplement bandwidth for online games. Optical Format Nintendo has invested millions into holographic storage for a number of years now, but what ever disc media that is simultaneously cheap to manufacture and hard to pirate, Nintendo will adopt it in a hot minute. This leads to three possible formats for the Wii 2 to use: First, the Wii 2 could be Nintendo’s first system where the holographic disc storage is implemented. Second, Nintendo could adopt the HD-DVD format. Although HD-DVD is an extinct format, Nintendo could easily gain the technology for a reasonable price and since the technology did not take off very well, Nintendo could take advantage of the lack of HD-DVD burners to thwart piracy. Third, Nintendo could return to cartridges. This would cut down on piracy and load times for the console and since the technology is now cheaper than before, mass producing the games would be cheaper and safer. Also, returning to cartridges would allow the system to be built smaller and operate quieter.
Online All Nintendo fans detest the friend code system, so instead of individual codes for each game, Nintendo gives each system its own code, or Universal friend codes, and any multiplayer game played on that system uses that same code to link up to other players. Problem solved, right?
Online structure to better accommodate DLC, MMO and multiplayer (see Universal friend codes). There is a robust online system for both the PS3 and 360, and this is something that the Wii is lacking. The Wii 2 will have to turn this around. The Wii 2 should be home to a number of good MMO and at the same time allow third parties to deliver down loadable content to consumers.
Wireless head set support for multiplayer games. The PS3 and 360 both have head set support, and arguably the Wii has Wii speak, but the head set system for the Wii 2 must support all multiplayer games with little to static.
Multimedia
Netflix and Hulu subscriptions in HD. The Netflx account of the Wii 2 would also allow movies to be purchased and stored onto the Wii 2 as channels like games. Wii Shop Channel: Virtual Console and Wiiware Dreamcast, Saturn and possibly Gamecube virtual console. If the Gamecube is not on virtual console, then Gamecube controller and memory card ports should be retained for backwards compatibility.
Transfer of virtual console and wiiware via Club Nintendo account. All a gamer would have to do is remove their account from the Wii and then reactivate it onto the Wii 2 to make the games transition over to the new console.
Wii shop channel upgrade to include faster download speeds and a shopping cart and wish list features. This system would be similar to one such as Amazon where a purchaser can read reviews about a certain game and even watch demo videos to determine whether the game is worth buying. Also, games from the Wii shop channel should be allowed to be down loaded in bulk to lower back tracking.
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: ThePerm on January 18, 2011, 04:38:32 AM
wow great use of bold
Title: Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 18, 2011, 10:50:42 PM
Kytime: I think the use of MUST is pretty bold. I like to look at likely.
What will we likely see...and what will we not see...and remember to look at it from how Nintendo does things.
I know we will see a boost in internal storage. I think this might be the area Nintendo surprises us the most. I don't see Nintendo supporting a hard drive, but internal flash will again be used. I predict 8 Gigs, but I could see Nintendo surprising us with 16 Gigs. What I do not expect is ANY hard drive support. Nintendo has been pretty opposed to the idea and I don't think Nintendo will change. SD card support continued yes...and I can even see Nintendo packing in an SD card with the Wii 2.0 with a nice default setting to put all game saves on the SD card. I like this means of having disk game saves on an SD for traveling.
Now, I expect Nintendo to embrace HD gaming next generation. There is no reason not to. So the Wii 2.0 will have the advanced motion controls of the Wii remote plus, but come with a sensor bar that will work better at detecting everything. (This is my theory at least) Something that allows the Wii market to more easily merge to the new system without losing all its investment in hardware. Controllers, Wii Fit, Classic Controllers and such will all work. Nintendo might lose some money on hardware sales, but will gain much respect in the market and the casual gamers will more likely move more easily to the new system.
I expect a good sized leap for Nintendo, but not compared to Microsoft or Sony. I expect something like an Xbox 360.5 in graphics and such...maybe 1GiG Ram.
Online, will be one system friend codes, potentially have built in voice chat and such for all games. But, I don't expect anything that is not already being done on the other systems better. As for multimedia. I don't care. Hopefully, Nintendo will keep make a Wii Apps store, that will allow developers like Netflix and such to make the software available for their services, but not bulk up the system with pre-installed apps people may never use.
I think the Club Nintendo Account will need to be re-imagined rebranded, and yes used for linking accounts for transfers and such, and I expect Nintendo to do this properly.
