Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: dhowerter on July 08, 2010, 02:26:36 PM
Title: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: dhowerter on July 08, 2010, 02:26:36 PM
Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts? (and sometimes maybe darker than the same game on someone else's Virtual Console - see below)
I really want to know this.
I've seen lots of screenshots and lots of videos online (often a video taken of an actual TV) where a specific NES game on the Virtual Console looks nice and colorful and bright and then the SAME game on the Virtual Console in DIFFERENT videos (also a video taken of an actual TV) looks dull and muted and darker.
I've also seen screenshots / videos online (again usually of an actual TV) where a specific NES game on the Virtual Console looks dull and muted while DIFFERENT videos (videos taken of an actual TV) of the SAME game on a ACTUAL NES looks nice and colorful and brighter.
I'm not sure these are the best examples, but they should illustrate what I mean:
Super Mario Bros 3 (Colorful /bright - actual NES): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py2ZZQuTnCs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py2ZZQuTnCs)
Super Mario Bros 3 (Darker / muted - Virtual Console): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNpZQUnJu4s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNpZQUnJu4s)
Super Mario Bros 3 (Colorful / bright - ALSO the Virtual Console O_O) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHq78vlJjDc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHq78vlJjDc)
Just go to Time 1:19 on SMB 3 Colorful /- actual NES video and compare it to Time 0:13 on the "darker" Virtual Console video. It is the same scene and notice how much darker the colors in the VC video are (just compare the green "bushes" in the background of both videos. Heck, notice how much darker in general the VC SMB 3 image is compared to the white Wii menus you see at the beginning of the video.
BUT then go to the "Colorful" Virtual Console video at Time 0:42 (same scene again) and now its bright and colorful too. o_O
Next up, Mega Man 2: (again not the best videos, but they will do)
Mega Man 2 (Colorful /bright - actual NES): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5lEfbkuUKs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5lEfbkuUKs)
Mega Man 2 (Darker / muted - Virtual Console): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNC0zyQtb18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNC0zyQtb18)
Mega Man 2 (Colorful / bright - ALSO the Virtual Console O_O) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15dD9qZ2cmI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15dD9qZ2cmI)
Just go to Time 0:52 on Mega Man 2- Colorful /- actual NES video and compare it to Time 3:25 on the "darker" Virtual Console video. It is the same scene and notice how much darker the colors in the VC video are (just compare the blue color in the background of both videos.)
BUT then go to the "Colorful" Virtual Console video at Time 1:04 (same scene again) and now its bright and colorful too. o_O
So there seems to be a lack of consistency in terms of brightness / vividness of colors (unless I'm missing something) between the SAME game in different Virtual Console videos,
AND
a difference between the actual NES cart (brighter / more vivid colors) and at least some of the Virtual Console videos (same game - darker / more muted colors).
Questions:
1. So what's going on here? Am I missing something?
2. Are YOUR NES Virtual Console games bright /colorful or are they dull / with muted colors?
3. Is the darkness related to region? specific game titles? your TV?
If it is specific game titles, how do you explain the incosistency in brightness / colors between the same game looking brighter / more colorful in some Virtual Console videos and darker / less colorful in others?
4. One last thing, for the "darker" NES VC games, what would be the best thing in terms of TV Settings to adjust on your TV to FIX IT? ^_^
(Changing the "Picture" level? How about changing the "Color"? "Brightness"? "Sharpness"? - I assume this would be more or less the same method whether you have a SD TV or a HDTV..)
If you have some of the darker NES VC games, please share the solutions you use to make them as good as possible (hopefully just as good as the NON dark versions ;-)
Thanks!
.
EDIT: Fixed a mistake. When I was taking about Mega Man 2 (text below the 3 Mega Man 2 links, I accidentally said: "Just go to Time 0:52 on SMB 3" and it SHOULD have read: "Just go to Time 0:52 on Mega Man 2"
Very sorry if that confused anybody! >_<
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: Mop it up on July 10, 2010, 01:50:03 AM
I don't think "darker" is the right word, but I do think Virtual Console games have bolder colours than the originals. The Wii may be a pretty faithful emulator, but it still has things like a higher resolution that will ever so slightly change how games look. The only NES VC game I have is Blaster Master, which looks a bit more bold and defined on my television compared with the original NES version.
Also, you can't compare different YouTube videos to one another, to make any sort of assessment that one version of a game looks different than another. They vary way too much in video quality due to several factors, including recording equipment, type of compression, connection strength at the time of upload, etc.
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: ThePerm on July 10, 2010, 02:38:53 AM
smb3 looks just lke smb3
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 10, 2010, 03:49:27 PM
Same with my copies of SMB and SMB2. They look the same as I remember. The other VC games I have are not NES games.
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: stevey on July 10, 2010, 04:22:56 PM
They look the same. This is just a case of people with shitty TVs/cables/webcams/capture cards/encoding software making the videos look funky. They only difference between regions is PAL vs NSTC (576i@25fps vs 480i@30fps) difference...
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: Mop it up on July 10, 2010, 04:35:17 PM
Actually, I do use component cables for the Wii, and I used A/V cables for my NES. I should try the Wii with A/V cables and see if it looks different.
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: Ian Sane on July 12, 2010, 12:27:30 PM
Once you have footage of people literally filming their TV screen entering the equation, throw the whole thing out. It has to be the same guy with the same TV and the same type of hookup with the same video capture software doing the comparison.
Though I wouldn't be surprised if things were not 100% accurate. Emulation never really is. If you want the truly accurate experience you need the original hardware and cartridge. But if you just want to play the game the VC is more than sufficient.
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: dhowerter on July 13, 2010, 11:12:35 PM
So to put my mind at ease.. ;)
So basically, you're ALL saying that *in terms of BRIGHTNESS and COLOR*, the USA NES Virtual Console games look EXACTLY like their NES counterparts?
In other words, *COLOR and BRIGHTNESS-wise*:
Mega Man 2 (or any NES game with bright colors) on YOUR TV looks like THIS?: (Robot Master Select Screen at 1:00 minute in - bright / vivid colors) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15dD9qZ2cmI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15dD9qZ2cmI)
and NOT like this?: (dark / muted - Mega Man 2 Robot Master Select Screen again at 3:25) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNC0zyQtb18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNC0zyQtb18)
Correct? (please actually *look* to verify the difference between the 2 images ;) - I'm not posting all these video links for the fun of it ^_^)
I don't think "darker" is the right word, but I do think Virtual Console games have bolder colours than the originals. The Wii may be a pretty faithful emulator, but it still has things like a higher resolution that will ever so slightly change how games look. The only NES VC game I have is Blaster Master, which looks a bit more bold and defined on my television compared with the original NES version.
Also, you can't compare different YouTube videos to one another, to make any sort of assessment that one version of a game looks different than another. They vary way too much in video quality due to several factors, including recording equipment, type of compression, connection strength at the time of upload, etc.
1. Well, by "bolder" do you mean even MORE bright / colorful than the original NES cart? (or at the least, the SAME level of brightness / color as the NES cart?)
2. When you say youtube videos vary a lot in "video quality" due to several factors, does "video quality" include the BRIGHTNESS of the image and how COLORFUL the image is, not just how sharp and clear it is?
It's not the QUALITY of the image that has me worried (how sharp / clear the image you see on youtube is), just the lack of brightness / lack of color in some of the youtube videos making SMB 3 and Mega Man 2 (and other NES Virtual Console games) look MUCH more dull / muted than they're supposed to look.
Once you have footage of people literally filming their TV screen entering the equation, throw the whole thing out. It has to be the same guy with the same TV and the same type of hookup with the same video capture software doing the comparison.
Though I wouldn't be surprised if things were not 100% accurate. Emulation never really is. If you want the truly accurate experience you need the original hardware and cartridge. But if you just want to play the game the VC is more than sufficient.
Ok, let me clarifiy a bit here ;) From what I've seen in videos, I think the Virtual Console emulation for NES games itself seems to be outstanding (animation, sound, music, game speed, etc).
It is ONLY the brightness and color (or lack thereof) in SOME of the images in videos of the USA NES Virtual Console games that has me worried.
.
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: Mop it up on July 13, 2010, 11:26:39 PM
Mega Man 2 (or any NES game with bright colors) on YOUR TV looks like THIS?: (Robot Master Select Screen at 1:00 minute in - bright / vivid colors) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15dD9qZ2cmI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15dD9qZ2cmI)
and NOT like this?: (dark / muted - Mega Man 2 Robot Master Select Screen again at 3:25) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNC0zyQtb18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNC0zyQtb18)
I can make it look like both of those if I adjust my television's settings. That's why they're there.
1. Well, by "bolder" do you mean even MORE bright / colorful than the original NES cart? (or at the least, the SAME level of brightness / color as the NES cart?)
Bold = more rich, defined colour. Like this kind of bold.
2. When you say youtube videos vary a lot in "video quality" due to several factors, does "video quality" include the BRIGHTNESS of the image and how COLORFUL the image is, not just how sharp and clear it is?
Yes. Quality is everything related to the picture. Everything.
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: Ian Sane on July 14, 2010, 12:22:34 PM
It does look pretty dark in that second video dhowerter posted. Enough that it looked weird to me even without a direct comparison.
Still the ideal way to make the comparison is for someone who owns both the VC and original NES version of a game to do a direct comparison.
I would think however that if this was a problem it would have attracted attention early on. The VC has gotten flack for poor emulation in some cases. I remember Star Fox 64 having some sort of issue and there were complaints about the TG-16 emulation being off in some way. Surely if the NES games were inaccurate it would have attracted attention. If a game as big as Mega Man 2 was flawed in some way we would have heard about it.
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: Mop it up on July 14, 2010, 07:12:28 PM
Well, if you consider a lack of rumble support to be an issue. The game also runs at a faster speed, but this has to do with how the game itself was programmed, not the emulation.
Title: Re: Are USA NES Virtual Console games DARKER than their NES Counterparts?
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 14, 2010, 07:27:37 PM
The only issue Star Fox 64 had was that the controls on a Classic Controller were too sensitive. A patch fixed this, as well as changing the gamespeed to match the original release. According to Jonathan Metts' review of the patch, this actually made some levels more difficult.
