Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 23, 2010, 12:22:01 PM
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=23499
In a recent E3 Q&A session with analysts, Nintendo President Satoru Iwata expressed his discontent with Nintendos online efforts.
Iwata was quite candid in expressing a need for improvement. I have heard commentary that people feel that Nintendos online functionality is behind the others or is lacking in some ways. And I can say that we are not currently satisfied with the online efforts that we have made so far, and we are working at ways to improve those.
Regardless of the dissatisfaction with their online offerings, Iwata expressed that a strong offline experience is vital to the company. On the other hand, I do not think that online functionality is something that we should be devoting resources to for every single product. Instead, I think that Nintendos ability to create an offline experience that feels incredibly unique and compelling is a particular strength that we have.
Iwata then explained that Nintendo will evaluate their online services based on the product. Going forward, what we will continue to do is to evaluate the individual products and experience that were creating on a product-by-product basis, and make a decision as to whether or not its more important to devote resources to making that offline experience more fun and compelling for products where that is going to be the most important element of the game play; and then for products where it is going to be more important, to add online functionality and make that online functionality robust and compelling. We will continue to focus our efforts there when its appropriate, but its going to be a product-by-product decision.
Post by: Caterkiller on June 23, 2010, 12:04:07 PM
Post by: UncleBob on June 23, 2010, 12:16:52 PM
Post by: Morari on June 23, 2010, 01:29:19 PM
Post by: broodwars on June 23, 2010, 03:10:39 PM
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on June 23, 2010, 03:27:33 PM
"We (Nintendo) are not happy with our online offering. Why? Because we could be making so much more money out of it. For example, we've really missed the boat with micro-transaction possibilities. We could have sold additional tracks for MarioKart and additional maps and characters for Smash Bros. We won't let that pass us by again, I can assure you (the investors) of that."
"What's that? Online play? Voice-chat? Connecting identifiable players efficiently? Yeah, we kind of don't give a **** about that stuff unless we can make more money. Can we do a micro-transaction to enable voice-chat functionality? Hmmm, now we're interested."
Post by: Ian Sane on June 23, 2010, 03:28:39 PM
Nintendo themselves are clueless about online gaming and have been since their stupid decision to not pursue online gaming on the Cube during the time that everyone else was going online. They're a generation behind so they need someone who isn't to catch them up. Nintendo is also infamous for doing things their own unique way, regardless of whether or not it makes sense to. If they keep doing that they're always going to be behind. This isn't something where customers want a unique and creative product. This is just a service and it just has to work. Overall it would be good for Nintendo to realize that sometimes doing things conventionally makes sense. They should save the creativity for game design when it is appropriate and welcomed. But to learn that they have to bring in someone from outside. They need a new perspective and won't get that from someone who has been working within the company for ten years.
They won't do this though. Nintendo will try to "fix" the problems their own way and thus just replace existing problems with new ones. This, like third party support, is an issue that requires a philisophical change in the Nintendo company as a whole. That sort of major change is not going to happen as long as they continue to be successful.
Post by: Halbred on June 23, 2010, 04:20:01 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 23, 2010, 04:31:15 PM
Quote
What online efforts? Have online efforts been made?
Well the Wii is actually like online and stuff so that's a clear effort made from the Gamecube days.
Though it is kind of like a naked person putting on socks and calling it an effort to get dressed.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 23, 2010, 04:47:43 PM
QuoteWhat online efforts? Have online efforts been made?
Well the Wii is actually like online and stuff so that's a clear effort made from the Gamecube days.
Though it is kind of like a naked man putting on a sock and calling it an effort to get dressed.
(http://i21.tinypic.com/21l05c5.jpg)
"Hey nothing to see here" "I already covered it up"
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on June 23, 2010, 05:13:36 PM
If the naked person was a hot, 25 year old co-ed, then Nintendo's online would be just fine, thank you.
Though it is kind of like a naked person putting on socks and calling it an effort to get dressed.
If the socks were athletic tube socks, so much the better.
(erm, perhaps I've said too much...)
Post by: ThePerm on June 23, 2010, 05:19:25 PM
Post by: Mop it up on June 23, 2010, 05:22:32 PM
Really, wouldn't the system be perfectly acceptable if there were no game-specific Friend Codes?No, it has other problems (and that actually has never bothered me). There's always lag in every online Wii game because the system isn't powerful enough to run with everything synced up. Games also have to make sacrifices in certain areas to work online, such as graphics and/or framerate. Added features like Wii Speak require even more processing power, and end up as a poor quality product as a result.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 23, 2010, 05:41:46 PM
It's like "Hey, we realize that WiiWare games aren't selling as well as we hoped they would, and think that demos do well... But its not our thing so we'll just find another way to make things work".
Post by: Morari on June 23, 2010, 06:42:38 PM
Really, wouldn't the system be perfectly acceptable if there were no game-specific Friend Codes?No, it has other problems (and that actually has never bothered me). There's always lag in every online Wii game because the system isn't powerful enough to run with everything synced up. Games also have to make sacrifices in certain areas to work online, such as graphics and/or framerate. Added features like Wii Speak require even more processing power, and end up as a poor quality product as a result.
I've never seen lag in but a few Smash Bros. matches, and that was undoubtedly due to a joining player's poor connection. Furthermore, the only time I can recall the graphics being dumbed down while online is in split-screen on Mario Kart. I'm not defending the service. It has plenty of flaws, but it's as bad as everyone thinks it is. Game specific friend codes are really the only thing that has ever hindered my enjoyment outside of the lack of voice chat in select titles. Besides, at least Nintendo isn't charging a monthly fee for the privilege of playing their games like Microsoft (and soon Sony) does with their online services! Now if your lag is really as bad as it sounds, you should upgrade your internet service or get a better router setup. Even my archaic Linksys WRT54G (WRT-DD!) pushes plenty of bandwidth via the WiFi connection.
Post by: Mop it up on June 23, 2010, 08:49:35 PM
Graphics aren't dumbed down just in online play, but in the entire game. It is why Mario Kart Wii has graphics so poor that even GCN Mario Party games look better.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 23, 2010, 09:03:52 PM
The initial online experience needs to be built into the hardware and into an universal OS for the system so that all games have the tools available for the most richest online experience. Only then can Nintendo play catch up and worry about product by product.
Now, I agree that if Nintendo is looking to do the above FIRST, and then look at product by product what games and experiences will be best online or just offline, then I think that is a good start.
Post by: Morari on June 23, 2010, 11:15:14 PM
You don't always notice the lag because only SSBBrawl actually attempts to sync up the action. Every other game just goes by positions. There is always lag, it is why you can often fire shells in Mario Kart and have them go right through other racers, or hit then even if it cleanly misses them. They are never exactly where they appear on your screen. Every Wii game is like this.
Most multiplayer games in general are like this. There's really no reason to transmit every single piece of data back and forth between all players when only a small bit of information really matters. That's smart coding, and doesn't really have anything to do with the Wii itself. Also, the games are almost all peer hosted, so again, your latency has a lot to do with who you're playing with.
Post by: Mop it up on June 23, 2010, 11:22:21 PM
Post by: Kytim89 on June 24, 2010, 12:49:33 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on June 24, 2010, 06:44:48 AM
A uniformed centralised approach to how hardware (Wii Speak) connects to other hardware (Wii), and how it interacts with software (games). All products need to follow the same design. If there is a better internal design, use it. If you can improve the interface so it works smoother, again use it. But it must be a uniform improvement.
Same applies to online. They all need to have the same basic functionality across all of them. Additional functions and ideas can be added on top.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 24, 2010, 12:10:36 PM
Quote
Lord knows they said the same thing about WiiWare, admitting that sales were very low. But then they released a couple of demos, they proved their point, and didn't bother with them again.
Yeah, I've noticed if Nintendo doesn't want to do something they're very obvious in giving a weak token effort that seems rigged to fail. Then they point at it like "See? We were right!" Nintendo seems to value appearing to be right over actually being right.
I do get the vibe from the "based on the product" bit that what Iwata is saying is that because their online model sucks they're going to use it even less. So it's not if onling gameplay fits the game but rather if Nintendo's shitty online model won't look embarassing if implemented in the game. In other words games that would be online on another console might not be on the Wii. Hell, this could be their easy excuse for just quietly cancelling online gaming in Nintendo games altogether. Every time a game comes out and we ask why it's not online they can just say that based on the product they felt it wasn't important to devote resources to it.
If Nintendo truly wanted to do online they would have done it on the Gamecube. Their excuse then was insulting. I think they clearly like the model for downloading fixes and selling downloadable titles but I don't think they're that interested in online multiplayer. Wii Sports and NSMB are all designed solely for living room multiplayer. That's what they're interested in.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 24, 2010, 12:59:29 PM
Nintendo's problem is that they are slow to adapt and it really doesn't help that they designed the Wii & DS in a way that they can't alter their path once the trip has began, so once they come across a detour of a broken bridge, since their roadmap runs right through it, they will still have to cross that bridge. There was no flexibility or expandability to the hardware design and I hope that is one of the main things they avoid moving forward.
A UOS, a software sandbox, that is always between the software and the hardware is what is necessary going forward, and seeing that 3DS has background downloading and Bark mode, I'm hoping that means that Nintendo realized that already and implemented it into the design.
Post by: Mop it up on June 24, 2010, 08:24:24 PM
Nintendo already implements online on a product-by-product basis. Because of this, I'm worried they won't see the importance of a universal online system. But even without that, there are still ways they can improve the online experience.
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on June 25, 2010, 03:57:03 PM
Considering the best-selling online-enabled game of all time is Mario Kart Wii
Really? MKWii sold better than all those Call of Doody and Haylo games and whatnot? Wow. I'm kind've shocked by that.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 25, 2010, 04:02:54 PM
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 25, 2010, 04:06:45 PM
I'm pretty sure Mop it up meant on a Nintendo system.
No, she didn't. Mario Kart Wii actually sold better than any of those games.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 25, 2010, 04:09:48 PM
EDIT: Just checked, I guess it makes sense. If you added up the different games in the other series it would come out differently.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 25, 2010, 05:02:27 PM
I wouldn't take its success as any barometer for the success of Nintendo's online efforts. It's clear that there is a lot of room for improvement.
Post by: Mop it up on June 25, 2010, 05:44:57 PM
If you added up the different games in the other series it would come out differently.Then you'd also have to factor in sales of every Mario Kart game, in which case it'd still win. In fact, I'll bet the combined sales of Mario Kart Wii and DS best the combined sales of every Halo game.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 25, 2010, 06:38:43 PM
Quote
There's no way you can disprove that the online mode wasn't a draw for Mario Kart Wii, especially when you consider the millions of people who still use it to this day. Factors like the packed Wii Wheel and all that marketing certainly helped, but I'm sure the online mode padded in some sales as well.
At the very least I think SSB Brawl's lag is reason enough to demonstrate a need for improvement. Mario Kart Wii is not reason enough to conclude that things are going fine as is.
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 25, 2010, 06:41:04 PM
Post by: BeautifulShy on June 25, 2010, 06:44:01 PM
Post by: Mop it up on June 25, 2010, 08:08:29 PM
I agree that Nintendo's online games need improvement. My point was that Nintendo realizes online games can be very profitable, and I believe they will pursue improving them in the future.QuoteThere's no way you can disprove that the online mode wasn't a draw for Mario Kart Wii, especially when you consider the millions of people who still use it to this day. Factors like the packed Wii Wheel and all that marketing certainly helped, but I'm sure the online mode padded in some sales as well.At the very least I think SSB Brawl's lag is reason enough to demonstrate a need for improvement. Mario Kart Wii is not reason enough to conclude that things are going fine as is.
I still don't know what happened with the lag for SSBB. There was no lag for the first few months (I loved playing it online at the time), some time after that is when it got the lag.I'm sure the fact that more and more people started playing it online had something to do with that. Plus, there are now a lot more games -- and therefore a lot more people -- which use online features, including Mario Kart Wii, which was released about a month and a half after SSBBrawl. This might also have something to do with it, though I don't know how this stuff works, so I'm not sure if that would matter or not.
