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NWR Interactive => TalkBack => Topic started by: NWR_Neal on June 17, 2010, 03:36:17 AM

Title: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: NWR_Neal on June 17, 2010, 03:36:17 AM
It looks like you won't have to swap cartridges any more.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=23418

 In a move that mimics the Xbox 360's ability to install games to its hard drive, Nikkei is reporting that Nintendo's 3DS system will allow users to copy cartridge-based games to internal memory.    


Once a game is "dumped" to the system's memory, it can be launched by selecting it from a menu listing the games stored on the system. Users will no longer have to carry their cartridges with them on the road in order to play multiple games.    


Nintendo has yet to discuss this feature, so we'll have to wait and see if there are any caveats.

Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 17, 2010, 10:42:56 AM
There are going to be huge limitations for this. Nintendo is maybe the most fanatical about piracy of any company in the business, and this seems to have far too many ways to be abused.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: AV on June 17, 2010, 11:10:48 AM
Quote from: insanolord on June 17, 2010, 10:42:56 AM
There are going to be huge limitations for this. Nintendo is maybe the most fanatical about piracy of any company in the business, and this seems to have far too many ways to be abused.


I was thinking the same thing. My guess is a messed up translation or information confusion. Maybe you can keep demos you download saved onto the internal memory from nintendo channel or single cart play.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Louieturkey on June 17, 2010, 11:39:49 AM
Quote from: Mr. Adolph Vega on June 17, 2010, 11:10:48 AM
Quote from: insanolord on June 17, 2010, 10:42:56 AM
There are going to be huge limitations for this. Nintendo is maybe the most fanatical about piracy of any company in the business, and this seems to have far too many ways to be abused.
This sounds closer to reality to me.  Of course, it seems many things on the 3DS have not been finalized so maybe this is something they are just looking at and haven't come to a conclusion at this point.

I was thinking the same thing. My guess is a messed up translation or information confusion. Maybe you can keep demos you download saved onto the internal memory from nintendo channel or single cart play.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: stevey on June 17, 2010, 11:45:55 AM
The internal memory is small so it going to be the key restriction if Nintendo does nothing else. At best, 3DS will only have 256-512MB built in with around 128-256MB left for DLC/saves/dumps so only 1-2 big DS games or 3-4 small ones will probably even fit. Plus, Nintendo probably with have some sort of time/play limit to make sure you still own it.

Its nice that Nintendo trying to do something like this but I'm still going to just wait for homebrew to crack the 3DS/DSi and dump all of my DS/3DS/GBA/GBC/NES/SNES/Genesis game collections to a large SD card so I don't have to carry them all around or repurchase them as VC...
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Pale on June 17, 2010, 12:31:41 PM
I don't buy this at all.  There is no way they could prevent rampant game sharing.  Not sure what Nikkei messed up, but yeah, i don't buy it.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Arbok on June 17, 2010, 12:37:42 PM
Yeah, I can't see this working as it seems to imply... if for nothing more than I don't see the 3DS having tons of storage space for games to be dumped on.

However, maybe this allows for one game to be dumped at a time? So you can play your current inserted cartridge along with one other dumped game, which you can save over with a new game if you like that erases the old. That would be neat and useful... but would be awful with saved game data in the mix.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Pale on June 17, 2010, 12:59:40 PM
The only way I can see Nintendo being OK with this is if each copy of each game has some sort of unique identifier in the code.  Then, when installing it, you permanently link that unique identifier to your system/account.  After that it can't be installed anywhere else.

This would have the side effect of gimping the used game market.  It would also have significant customer service implications.  Used game buyers could be pissed. Parents of sibling could be pissed.

Yeah, overall, I just don't see this actually being true.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Pale on June 17, 2010, 01:01:01 PM
Oh, good point on the saved game data.  If this were true, how would you get your save data back on a cart after you wanted to uninstall the game?
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Louieturkey on June 17, 2010, 01:38:52 PM
Quote from: Pale on June 17, 2010, 01:01:01 PM
Oh, good point on the saved game data.  If this were true, how would you get your save data back on a cart after you wanted to uninstall the game?
Well, they could easily have an option when erasing the game to keep the save data and when the cart is placed in the system again it will autodetect the save data and will ask if you want to erase the data then or copy it to the cart.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: UncleBob on June 17, 2010, 01:45:13 PM
Here's what I would picture.  It's not perfect, but neither is the system we've got now with regular DS games.

You put the game in.  Each individual Game Card has a unique serial number in the card's programming.  You select "Download Card".  The 3DS connects to Nintendo's server, authenticates the card and checks to see if the flag for this serial number is on.  If it's on, the download is denied.  If it's off, then the server turns the flag on and approves the download.

To delete the game, there's two options.
One, it'll need the game card, reconnect to the server and "unflag" it.
Or, two, you won't need the game card, but once you download to the 3DS, that card is tied to that system and you can't download it to any other systems ever.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 17, 2010, 01:58:24 PM
That could work. It allows for the functionality in a relatively straightforward way without much, if any, possibility for piracy. I hope that's how they do it.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: oohhboy on June 17, 2010, 04:05:13 PM
It's more likely someone fucked up the translation somewhere.

I think instead of saving your saves on the card like we do now, any save will/can be done to the internal memory. Lowers the cost of the cart not having to include unneeded rewritable memory is such small size.

Seeing now that the current maximum cart is 2GB only to be increased at a later date, I don't see how the numbers would match up. The internal memory would have to be many multiples above this to take in to account for future games. Even then you would run into the same space problem anyway like the Wii did. Would they allow you to transfer the game to an SD card, pretty much destorying the entire point of installing the game?

I call BS covering something real.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: UncleBob on June 17, 2010, 04:10:56 PM
Oh, I have no doubt there's more to this than we know - but even at a maximum "2GB" for games, 8GB of memory would allow you to have five games (four installed and one in the slot) and that would be pretty awesome.

Hell, let me install NSMB, Clubhouse Games, Tetris DS and Mario Kart and I'd be a happy camper with my current system.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Pale on June 17, 2010, 04:31:24 PM
I don't think I've said it yet because I'm so skeptical, but if this actually proves true, I think this will be one of the coolest things Nintendo has ever done.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: oohhboy on June 17, 2010, 04:47:07 PM
Actually it should be related to the entire data trading thing Iwata was on about. It installs small part of the game in order to tell the 3DS to look out for data the owner has games for when it is "Off". It makes sharing data many times easier by not having both the machine "On" and having the game running looking for data.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: UncleBob on June 17, 2010, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: oohhboy on June 17, 2010, 04:47:07 PM
Actually it should be related to the entire data trading thing Iwata was on about. It installs small part of the game in order to tell the 3DS to look out for data the owner has games for when it is "Off". It makes sharing data many times easier by not having both the machine "On" and having the game running looking for data.

I bet this is actually pretty spot-on.
I'm guessing some games (Nintendogs + Cats, Animal Crossing) will install "Channels" that will actively seek out other 3DSes that have these channels installed as well, then trade the data.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Louieturkey on June 17, 2010, 05:43:37 PM
Quote from: UncleBob on June 17, 2010, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: oohhboy on June 17, 2010, 04:47:07 PM
Actually it should be related to the entire data trading thing Iwata was on about. It installs small part of the game in order to tell the 3DS to look out for data the owner has games for when it is "Off". It makes sharing data many times easier by not having both the machine "On" and having the game running looking for data.

I bet this is actually pretty spot-on.
I'm guessing some games (Nintendogs + Cats, Animal Crossing) will install "Channels" that will actively seek out other 3DSes that have these channels installed as well, then trade the data.
This sounds the most feasible for something Nintendo does.  It also sounds pretty cool as well.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: yoshi1001 on June 17, 2010, 09:36:36 PM
Could also mean something like the Wii Fit channel, like daily play for puzzle games.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: MaryJane on June 17, 2010, 10:48:05 PM
Hmmm... What if it were somehow possible to put a small amount of information onto the gamecard from the 3DS itself, like... save data? :confused; Instead of writing your name, and game location all the 3DS would have to do is write: Game dumped do not run. 

And the last time I checked stores checked games before they buy them from you, so no one is going to be buying a dumped/unplayable game.

Also, the prototype 3DS was fairly thick, I'm guessing that it will be slimmed down, but still have enough room to hold more than 8GB installed memory, which seems a little weak, if Nintendo is truly taking the 'iPhone threat' seriously like they said they were. I'm hoping the 3DS has at least 16GB with 32GB on the 3DSi. Nintendo has yet to offer a Wii with more storage, but they could potentially offer different size 3DS's at launch, as 'casual' gamers don't really need the extra memory, and would be encouraged to buy from the system because of its lower price. The 'hardcore' gamers would pay a small premium for the extra memory and maybe a free app installed but still not more than $200. Although personally I would pay $250, I mean it's glasses free 3D!
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: ThePerm on June 17, 2010, 11:24:23 PM
how small can you make a hard drive nowadays?
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 17, 2010, 11:32:44 PM
Flash Drives and the answer to your question is... pretty damn small.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: MaryJane on June 17, 2010, 11:35:15 PM
Technically it's not a 'hard' drive or which refers to the spinning disks(HDD) most desktops and laptops still use. But the 3DS, as a portable trying to conserve battery life and space, it would use flash memory and be called a 'solid state' drive(SSD), and you can make them minuscule: a Micro-SD card can function as the SSD if installed for the purpose, and they have those up to 32GB, which means Nintendo can do more...
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: EasyCure on June 18, 2010, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: MaryJane on June 17, 2010, 10:48:05 PM
And the last time I checked stores checked games before they buy them from you, so no one is going to be buying a dumped/unplayable game.

LOL Gamestop..
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Mop it up on June 18, 2010, 03:51:16 AM
Unless it becomes official, I'm calling this a mistranslation.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: NWR_Neal on June 18, 2010, 04:12:53 AM
This seems to have been debunked by an interview that IGN did with Miyamoto. Still, the report is out there, though I think it might have been a mistranslation.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 18, 2010, 04:14:41 AM
I wouldn't be so sure.  Look at the way he answered.  He didn't say "No this is not true".  He said he doesn't know anything about it.  Surely if it is as far along in it's development as inferred, then he would know one way or the other.
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: ThePerm on June 18, 2010, 05:57:29 AM
lol im totally aware of flash drives and other solid state media, i have like 8 sd cards lying around, and i pretty much predicted that the games would be 2GB.
I was wondering though, how small can you make a hard drive? Sure they spin which is ultimately a nuisance, and eats power....but
those 3ds are totally guarded by booth babes. They dont want anybody to dissassemble one, maybe theres something in it they don't
want to mention just yet. There maybe a decent tradeoff between power consumption/size/and storage capacity.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04010804toshibahdd.asp

at 4gb though, i don't know if the tradeoff is there, although that was back in 2004 something like that could be 80gb now.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/small-beautiful,1249.html
these are 40gb, but are 1.8 inches
Title: Re: 3DS to Allow the Dumping of Games to Internal Memory
Post by: MaryJane on June 18, 2010, 08:11:45 AM
The 3DS is not going to have an HDD... period. Too many moving parts, too much risks of damage and data loss, and you could not play a game that requires you to shake the 3DS to perform an action as that would cause to the HDD to malfunction. 

No manufacturers were interested in Toshiba's small HDD's because of the lack of space and high cost of initial development. My Archos Gmini 402 Camcorder had a 20GB 1.8 inch HDD and it was a great device... except I could not go jogging with it (good by all exercise games on the 3DS), and I could not have it playing in pocket on a hot day or the entire device shut down because of how hot the drive got. Towards the end of it's life the HDD became unstable, constantly losing songs and videos, along with annoying playback errors, and me frequently having to reformat the drive, and then upload my files onto it again. Don't get me wrong, it was by far the best PMP I have ever owned and I haven't owned one since then but the device was ruined by the HDD.

HDD's are the past. They may be getting denser, cheaper, and faster, but SSD's are catching up in all of those categories, although the cheaper part is taking the longest to catch up.