Post by: Sea Dragon on April 21, 2003, 10:42:25 AM
I'm considering a gamecube purchase, but, due to space limitations, it needs to be hooked into my 19 inch CRT monitor. I've done a lot of reading on the subject about the best way to go about this. I've seen VGA boxes, VGA cables, etc. Right now, I'm leaning toward the Viewsonic HB50HRTV, because it will let me plug my VCR in also.
My primary concern is image quality; I want the quality to be at least as good as a regular TV. Does anyone have any experience with the Viewsonic device? Comments on image and sound quality are especially welcome.
Some people recommend the VGA cable; however, a lot of the things I see (such as on Goldenshop) say that it is *only* for games that support progressive scan. Does that mean that non-progressive scan titles won't work at all?
If anyone has any screenshots of a gamecube running on a monitor, posting those would be nice.
Does the Gamecube allow standard computer speakers to be plugged into it? I have the Logitech Z-560 speakers (4 satellites and a subwoofer.)
Thanks for any input!
Post by: rpglover on April 21, 2003, 11:43:54 AM
the reason was for ikaruga- i put the moniter on its side to see full screen
but the picture quality is not as sacrificed as you think
the quality is still really good (i have a pretty good flat screen moniter myself)
but i guess it all depends on the brand
Post by: Scyth3r on April 21, 2003, 12:51:56 PM
The games that aren't progressive scan will look okay.
These games are optimized to look best on a TV. A computer monitor is actually much better than a TV (high resolution, more colors, etc.) and thus games might look worse on a computer monitor since you can see the details (or the lack of more correctly) much clearly.
Personally, I use a TV card w/ S-Video In (Leadtek Winfast 2000XP). A good TV card and a good VGA box are going to look just about the same (for non progressive scan games). There are some VGA boxes/cables that support progressive scan which again, will look absolutely great on a computer monitor.
I took looked at the Viewsonic HB50HRTV but I dind't find it worth the costs, considering my TV card will allow me to do much more for half the costs. The only real downside I see is that the computer has to be on, but I don't find that much of a problem personally.
And lastly, no, the Gamecube doesn't allow stand computer speakers to be plugged into it.
Post by: Strell on April 21, 2003, 01:08:36 PM
Strictly speaking, whats the best VGA box to do this, and what's it cost? Furthermore, how do you get sound? My monitors on't have sound, so I'm curious how this works.
If anyone can recommend some hardware and links, I'd throughly appreciate it.
Thanks again!
-Strell
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 21, 2003, 02:05:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Scyth3r
And lastly, no, the Gamecube doesn't allow stand computer speakers to be plugged into it.
I do not have a TV Tuner card, or a VGA Box, although I do desperately want one. I do have my audio going through my PC though. You can buy a little widget in Radio Shack that will take the RCA cables and convert them to a stereo jack. I then plug that into the line in on my soundcard, and boom. I get 4.1 surround from my GameCube. (Through Prologic II of course).
Post by: Byron on April 21, 2003, 04:23:03 PM
Post by: Tael on April 21, 2003, 06:14:01 PM
Scyth3r - Using an upscan convertor that takes Component/RGB input will give far better image quality on a VGA monitor than using a TV tuner card with S-Video input.
Strell - To get sound output with a VGA box, you need an amp and some speakers (most PC speakers include some form of amp in the subwoofer).
Byron - The RF switch is the reason for your poor image quality, as a poor quality source signal will only result in a poor quality image. I'm quite suprised your TV tuner card doesn't have Composite(AV) input, I have a cheap TV tuner card from 1997 which has RF, Composite, and S-Video inputs.
Post by: yeg0 on April 21, 2003, 06:33:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Byron
Check your monitor to see if it will accept A/V cables.
Actually, to my knowledge, there are more TV's that allow you to use it as a monitor. I have seen very few monitors that have A/V.
Post by: Strell on April 21, 2003, 07:11:44 PM
Someone link me to this VGA box everyone seems so happy about.
Post by: PIAC on April 21, 2003, 07:24:00 PM
Post by: Tael on April 21, 2003, 07:29:23 PM
VB50HRTV 1024x768 Video Processor.
Post by: Strell on April 21, 2003, 07:35:15 PM
So I look at this....V50 thing. First off it's 100 bucks (ouch). Secondly, it looks like it's component cable only? No A/V in and out? Bleh. So I'd have to buy component cables too.
How does it compare to a video card? I know that has probably been answered already, I'll see what others said up there, unless someone wants to summarize.
Post by: Tael on April 21, 2003, 07:50:16 PM
Quote
CONNECTOR Signal: F connector for RF, 3.5mm Mini Stereo Jack for Audio In and Audio Out. RCA left/right for Audio In, S- Video,Composite (RCA), 15-pin Mini D-Sub for RGB Input and RGB Output
Post by: Sea Dragon on April 21, 2003, 07:51:05 PM
From the way I understand it, the VB50 has an audio pass through, and accepts S-video and composite inputs. The way I was envisioning my connection:
Gamecube running through an S-video cable into the VB50, which runs into my 19 inch CRT.
Gamecube audio cables running into an RCA-to-minijack convertor, which runs into my Soundblaster Audigy, which is connected to Logitech speakers and subwoofer. Alternately, I guess I could run the speakers directly into the gamecube with the Rca-to-minijack connectors, since the speakers are amplified through the subwoofer.
The vb50 seems to have good reviews for image quality, from what I've read. However, I haven't read about anyone (Amazon, cnet, nextag reviews, etc.) trying it on a Gamecube yet.
Post by: Sir Kero on April 21, 2003, 08:00:14 PM
I'm using a homemade GC VGA cable, which I'd suggest is well worth the effort if your cube is all you want to connect to your monitor. The quality is absolutely the best you can get from a GameCube, but unfortunately I can't play a few games without switching to my 15" TV (from 1985). My cable, the same as the sort you'll find at goldenshop, will work just fine with an interlaced signal, but most monitors do not. If I understand correctly, the 480i 15khz signal is converted to a non-interlaced format, but it still runs at 15k, and very few monitors will accept a frequency lower than 31. I've seen one such cable attached to a projector (the results of which are marvelous) and I was suprised to see that it accepts both formats from the same signal and hardly hiccoughs when switched between the two.
By the way Scyth3r, what TV card do you use? I've had experience with two crappy cards, both from now defunct companies. needless to say the image quality was pretty bad, even my little TV can produce a better picture (and I can actually read the text it displays). it's been years since I've looked into those things though...
edit: I got my hertz wrong, monitors use 60 or 70 some-odd, interlaced signals are around 31. I think... I'll just shut up
Oh, one last thing. From looking at this VB50 HRTV, it doesn't have the ports you need for a progressive signal from your cube (you want progressive, you really do). sounds terrific for any older systems, and those few games that won't use progressive (there all third party btw).
Post by: Strell on April 21, 2003, 08:03:04 PM
you might as well have written that in Latin to me, I don't understand everything. :/
Forgive my noobness.
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 21, 2003, 08:53:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir Kero
Grey Ninja - what are you using for you're PL2? (and more importantly how much did it cost?) I've been looking for a cheap surround system, and my PC could use a better card anyway.. might be able to kill two birds with one stone.
I am using my Soundblaster Live!. Prologic II is done onboard the card, and it sounds great. When testing the TIE Fighter sound test in Rogue Leader, I can very distinctly track the TIE fighter as it travels around my head. I hear that in the new Audigy drivers, they have disabled Prologic II and gone back to Prologic, as a result of some problems, but I have no way of confirming that, as I do not own such a card. My Live! does almost everything I want it to though, so I can't really complain.
If you are looking for a cost effective surround system for your GameCube though, you really can't beat this system. A Soundblaster Live! goes for less than $50 these days, and my speakers are fairly decent, and cost me about $100. It's more than enough for me, and makes my GameCube sound awesome. Mind you my TV almost always has interference on it, and requires 5 minutes of screwing with the wires to get it somewhat clear, but it's so small that you barely notice it anyways. At least it sounds good now.
Post by: Scyth3r on April 21, 2003, 08:57:08 PM
Quote
Scyth3r - Using an upscan convertor that takes Component/RGB input will give far better image quality on a VGA monitor than using a TV tuner card with S-Video input.
Yeah and upscan box will imporve the quality but the costs are abusrd IMO. =) While a standard VGA box (the Viewsonic VBR which he is looking at) will not do much as compared to a TV tuner w/ S-Video in terms of image quality, and especially for $100.
And regarding my comment about the speakers Sea Dragon. Well of course you can get converters and change the 2 RCA male on the GC so that you can plug into your computer speakers...
Theres a cable out there that does progressive scan for your monitor (and it will look absolutely beautiful doing 480p) but it will only work for progressive scan games.
Post by: Tael on April 21, 2003, 09:14:40 PM
Strell - Basically, you can use RF, Composite (AV,RCA or whatever you want to call it), S-Video, and RGB video cables for input.
Post by: Strell on April 21, 2003, 10:12:54 PM
So who offers the best component cables?
And then I get some sort of speakers, which frankly I could worry about later.
Oh, and I assume just any monitor will do? Don't need anything fancy, eh? Unless, of course, I want a bigger picture.
Thanks again everyone who's helped, especially Tael, I know I must sound like a complete idiot.
-Strell
Post by: Scyth3r on April 22, 2003, 12:09:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Tael
Scyth3r - The Viewsonic VB50HRTV is an upscan convertor. A VGA box would be something like what the Dreamcast had, where you actually get a true VGA output from the console. If you look at the Atarilabs' Video Primer, you'll see that there's a noticable difference in quality between RGB and S-Video. I think that for $100, it's money well spent, considering you don't need to have your PC running at the same time.
It seems that I was wrong about the Viewsonic VB50HRTV being an upscan converter. Doh.
However, a VGA box is not simply what the Dreamcast had and can make use of. For example, LikSang offers a VGA box that works for the GC as well as other consoles but it doesn't really do much other than let you play the GC on a monitor, sending nothing more than a VGA compatible signal. It doesn't improve the qualty of images or such at all. However, I do suppose what the Dreamcast had can be considered as a "true" VGA box.
Personally, I do not consider the quality difference worth $100+, especially when it can not do progressive scan. Furthermore, it simply can't display stuff that isn't there, as w/ the Viewsonic VBR the video will be sent in w/ an s-video cable at best. It just doesn't have enough to work with. It will furthermore lose some quality through the pass-through, and it will remain somewhat "fuzzy" as compared to a TV.
Again, you're not going to find much difference in terms of video quality from those VGA boxes and an S-Video TV card. Unless, you're looking into better upscan converters which do take in RGB but will run $200+, and still can't do progressive. You should check out the XRGB-2plus review at IGN to understand what I'm saying.
I would personally go for the $40 progressive scan direct cable and get the MUCH improved video image and the sweet 60 fps glory and for the other games just stick to either a basic VGA box or TV-Card that has S-Video. But I suppose that is all relative to the individual.
Post by: AngusPodgorny on April 22, 2003, 05:57:11 AM
Anyway, you can probably get a pre-modded component cable for less money than a VGA box. Just something to consider.
-Angus
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 22, 2003, 06:29:51 AM
Can someone please post a list at least of the parts I need, or a link to a site that says how to do it?
Post by: AngusPodgorny on April 22, 2003, 07:30:26 AM
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mars/9984/ngcrgb_e.htm
I have clumsy fingers, so it took me about 8 hours to complete, but it was fun. A large part of that was wasted time due to the fact that, complete moron that I am, I soldered the VGA connector on backwards and had to do it over again. I have no idea how you'd obtain a monitor that accepts the interlaced signal. If you find out, let me know
-Angus
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 22, 2003, 08:18:42 AM
The problem is that although the idea of a boosted picture quality in some games sounds very appealing to me, the thought of dragging out my TV and getting everything set up again if I wanted to play a game that didn't support progressive scan doesn't sound very appealing to me. In all likelihood I would just leave my GameCube hooked up to my TV, being the lazy bum that I am.
I might just have to buy a VGA Box, but thanks for the link anyways.
Post by: Sea Dragon on April 22, 2003, 03:47:25 PM
It's another one that I can't find any reviews for - has anyone seen this one?
Viewsonic N4
Post by: Windwaker on April 22, 2003, 04:08:39 PM
I have the Viewsonic VB50HRTV that you are talking about. I got it for $70 on ebay and its work every penny. I get to play Zelda and Metroid on my 19 inch screen with my Klipsch 4.1 sound and its flippin awesome. Metroid looks especially good. I would highly recommened you getting the Viewsonic tuner. I can also watch tv with this tuner. Its great.
The wind blew and the Windwaker has taken off.
Post by: Sea Dragon on April 22, 2003, 05:31:53 PM
I'm heartened to hear that it's working well for you- I'm definitely considering one. Do you have your gamecube hooked in through the S-video connection?
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 24, 2003, 08:28:00 PM
Post by: knightmare70 on April 24, 2003, 09:18:26 PM
If your not going to want to use progressive mode, then I would suggest getting a PCI video input card (the MSI-8876 TV@NYWHERE PCI looks good) with a Gamecube S-Video cable and use either of the following programs to make the video sharp and smooth.
DScaler
FlyDS
The first one is a freeware program. The second costs $30 if you register it.
I've used both and found FlyDS to be the smoothest.
Both programs de-interlace the input video from the gamecube and keep the video from tearing and looking like crap. They also have different filters that can be used to enhance the video. Most video input cards don't have built-in de-interlacing code in their software, so video from the software that comes with the cards look horrible.
I've been using FlyDS for about 2 weeks now and it has made a huge difference in the video quailty from my cube. I'm only using the RCA cable and it looks better than on my TV. I'm sure using the S-Video cable would only make things better.
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 25, 2003, 12:55:18 PM
I really can't say that S-Video would make me that unhappy though.
And if I ever get a TV Tuner, I will make sure to check out those programs.(This is just a line to aid in my searching for this topic again when I do finally get a TV Tuner. Just ignore it.)
alberkerke is mispelleds.
Post by: Windwaker on May 01, 2003, 03:59:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sea Dragon
Hi Windwaker,
I'm heartened to hear that it's working well for you- I'm definitely considering one. Do you have your gamecube hooked in through the S-video connection?
Nope, I have my gamecube hooked up to the RCA ports. I don't have a S-Video cable, but it would be nice.
