NWR Interactive => Podcast Discussion => Topic started by: Jonnyboy117 on May 05, 2009, 11:11:34 PM
Title: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 05, 2009, 11:11:34 PM
All these games are available on Virtual Console in the Americas (and should be in Europe/Australia and Japan, as well).
Poll results will not be visible until voting ends on the morning of Thursday, May 14th. Until then, please feel free to use this thread for lobbying for your favorite game. If you're not sure about your vote, read below for advice from other gamers!
*Note: Due to the new polling format, second-place games will not move on to the next round, as a different console platform will be featured. However, games with significant support will be considered for a "second chance" poll to take place every fifth game. (The next such poll will be for RetroActive #10.)
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: vudu on May 05, 2009, 11:42:59 PM
I'm horribly disappointed Zelda II was chosen over the original.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to bow out gracefully from this RetroActive. I've recently played Zelda II, Mega Man III and River City Ransom and I have no desire to play the others.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: gojira on May 06, 2009, 12:14:31 AM
Wrecking Crew was my nomination so I guess I should lobby for that. It's a puzzle platformer game that got lost in all the other games that featured Mario. It seems to be somewhat similar to a game like Toki Tori.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on May 06, 2009, 12:32:37 AM
I'm horribly disappointed Zelda II was chosen over the original.
In features of this type in other podcasts, it's been noted that there's really not a whole lot to discuss when picking a universally loved game like Zelda I. You go around the room saying "Yep, this part was awesome" and that's that With Zelda II, there's a much richer discussion to be had.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Stratos on May 06, 2009, 12:40:48 AM
Hmm, too many good choices this season.
I'm leaning strongest towards StarTropics since I never played it and considered getting it a while back.
I'm also interested in River City Ransom and Zelda 2.
Decisions, decisions.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 06, 2009, 12:46:43 AM
This is my kind of poll, I own 4 of the 5 on the VC and the 5th is on my maybe list.
I'm horribly disappointed Zelda II was chosen over the original.
In features of this type in other podcasts, it's been noted that there's really not a whole lot to discuss when picking a universally loved game like Zelda I. You go around the room saying "Yep, this part was awesome" and that's that With Zelda II, there's a much richer discussion to be had.
Shouldn't this also eliminate Mega Man 3?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 06, 2009, 12:50:24 AM
I put down River City Ransom. Awesome little brawler that is awesome. Very detailed Brawler too.
Plus it has an awesome alternative version called Pussy City Pimps.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on May 06, 2009, 12:50:53 AM
Yeah, I honestly don't think there's a whole lot that can be said on any one particular Mega Man game. It's a platform shooter. They're all almost exactly the same.
So, yeah, probably. Except that like Zelda II, it's not the obvious choice - that would go to Mega Man 2.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 06, 2009, 01:50:58 AM
Aw, no Kirby's Adventure. Looks like that game will continue to go under-appreciated, and what's worse is that a crap game like Wrecking Crew beat it out.
Anyways, I voted for Zelda II. It's probably the most unique Zelda game, and even back before Zelda was an established series people still complained about the changes. It seems to be one of those "love it or hate it" affairs.
Also, the title is "Zelda II: The Adventure of Link". Please amend this before I pull out my beautiful hair.
I'm not that interested in the other stuff. Wrecking Crew: This game is garbage, I can't believe somebody nominated it. StarTropics: The terrible controls ruin the game for me. Mega Man 3: Played it too much, not really in the mood for that again. River City Ransom: Only one I don't own. Might buy it if it's cheap.
Aw, no Kirby's Adventure. Looks like that game will continue to go under-appreciated...
Wrecking Crew: This game is garbage, I can't believe somebody nominated it.
I got Kirby's Adventure on VC since I never really played a Kirby game before. I thought it was really good, surprisingly difficult at times, but the levels weren't terribly interesting.
I nominated Wrecking Crew because it's one of the few NES games on VC that aren't the big name titles everyone knows and loves. Plus I checked a few sites and it got fairly good reviews. I don't expect it to win the poll, but it seems like an interesting game I'm sure not to many people have played.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 06, 2009, 12:41:51 PM
I voted for Wrecking Crew because it's the only one I haven't played. (On a side note, I've just been informed that they're going to be playing the Real Life version upstairs later today with jackhammers. Joy!)
Not that that'll make a difference, since I haven't yet managed to find the time to participate in any of these. But I want to!
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 06, 2009, 01:49:23 PM
Result visibility has been fixed -- that option was apparently reset when I was fine-tuning the poll expiration time. Sorry, poll watching junkies, but I think this kind of blind campaigning is more productive and more about the games themselves than "vote for this, it's almost tied".
I had some tough choices when making this poll, as there were many good nominations, and the VC selection of NES games is impressive. As DrewMG noted, Zelda II just seemed like a more interesting choice than the original one, which is universally loved. I originally had SMB: Lost Levels, but while it may be interesting, it would also be another brutal game following SGnG. So I replaced Lost Levels with Mega Man 3; I agree it is almost too beloved for this feature, but it was nominated multiple times and has some interesting elements (sliding, Proto Man, stage remixes, comparisons to MM2). Wrecking Crew is one of the most obscure first-party NES games, so it seemed like a good choice -- I have no idea whether the game is fun, but this would be a good chance to find out. StarTropics is a unique game that should have more exposure, and it's a personal favorite of mine. River City Ransom is a cult classic with some very interesting hybrid gameplay, as well as a full cooperative mode.
Just be glad I didn't nominate Milon's Secret Castle. (Maybe next time!)
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: vudu on May 06, 2009, 01:59:40 PM
I'm horribly disappointed Zelda II was chosen over the original.
In features of this type in other podcasts, it's been noted that there's really not a whole lot to discuss when picking a universally loved game like Zelda I. You go around the room saying "Yep, this part was awesome" and that's that With Zelda II, there's a much richer discussion to be had.
That doesn't change the fact that those of us playing at home would have to suffer through Zelda II!
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: gojira on May 06, 2009, 04:42:47 PM
I'm horribly disappointed Zelda II was chosen over the original.
In features of this type in other podcasts, it's been noted that there's really not a whole lot to discuss when picking a universally loved game like Zelda I. You go around the room saying "Yep, this part was awesome" and that's that With Zelda II, there's a much richer discussion to be had.
That doesn't change the fact that those of us playing at home would have to suffer through Zelda II!
Zelda II > Zelda I
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: vudu on May 06, 2009, 04:50:24 PM
Off-topic: Is your user name taken from Godzilla or the French, death metal band?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 06, 2009, 05:12:17 PM
I've narrowed it down to Wrecking Crew and River City Ransom, but I can't decide. I'm leaning toward RCR because, while they're both awesome, I don't know how much discussion you can really get out of Wrecking Crew.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 06, 2009, 05:32:55 PM
I nominated Wrecking Crew because it's one of the few NES games on VC that aren't the big name titles everyone knows and loves. Plus I checked a few sites and it got fairly good reviews. I don't expect it to win the poll, but it seems like an interesting game I'm sure not to many people have played.
Reviews from 1985, or from more recently? Looks can be deceiving: Enter The Matrix looked interesting and we all know how that game turned out (hint: garbage). There is a reason why many people haven't played it; because it is not a good game.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: vudu on May 06, 2009, 05:43:20 PM
NWR says it's Recommended for Everyone (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/vcArt.cfm?artid=14917).
DAMN YOU PALE!!
Parsih seemed to like it, too. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3164462)
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 06, 2009, 05:48:15 PM
That's a bigger catastrophe than the Kid Icarus recommendation.
Recommended for everyone who hates themselves.
Miyamoto took a dump, and out came Wrecking Crew.
EDIT: Am I becoming like a GameFAQs troll...?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: gojira on May 06, 2009, 07:39:27 PM
Reviews from 1985, or from more recently? Looks can be deceiving: Enter The Matrix looked interesting and we all know how that game turned out (hint: garbage). There is a reason why many people haven't played it; because it is not a good game.
Recent reviews from IGN and some VC specific review sites. And I think that the reason not too many people have played it is because it got lost in the launch of 18 titles. Plus "puzzle/platformer" has never been a popular genre.
That's a bigger catastrophe than the Kid Icarus recommendation.
Recommended for everyone who hates themselves.
Miyamoto took a dump, and out came Wrecking Crew.
EDIT: Am I becoming like a GameFAQs troll...?
I wasn't going to say anything but you had to go and insult Miyamoto which is something I will not stand for. Wrecking Crew is awesome, I'm 100% glad to have it as part of my VC library, and it's probably the best non-packed-in launch game for the NES. That having been said, I don't really think it would be good for this feature because I don't think there's much discussion to be had from it.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 06, 2009, 08:17:00 PM
I wasn't going to say anything but you had to go and insult Miyamoto which is something I will not stand for.
How was what I said an insult to Miyamoto? Even his crap is better than 90% of other games.
The implication that Miyamoto would just crap out a game instead of meticulously crafting it in his perfectionist way is clearly defamation of character.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: gojira on May 06, 2009, 10:52:34 PM
And I think that the reason not too many people have played it is because it got lost in the launch of 18 titles.
I think you should play the game before deciding why few people have played it.
Who says I haven't played it? I don't own the game, but I have played it a bit. And considering it got decent reviews from multiple sites, I'm pretty sure it's not because it isn't a good game.
The implication that Miyamoto would just crap out a game instead of meticulously crafting it in his perfectionist way is clearly defamation of character.
That wasn't a metaphor. Even Miyamoto is human and has to poop like the rest of us. Sometimes he meticulously crafts his excrement into a game.
Did Miyamoto even have any involvement with Wrecking Crew?
As far as the game having conversational worth, as long as the people involved in the discussion have different opinions, any game will have something to talk about. Clearly that's the case here, since I don't agree with either of you that it's a good game.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 07, 2009, 11:02:24 AM
Maybe, but I doubt Jonny would put it in the poll if he didn't think enough of a conversation could be born from the game.
I don't know much about Wrecking Crew, but the comments in this thread have already proven that it was an interesting nomination. ;-)
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: AV on May 07, 2009, 02:07:01 PM
STARTROPICS !!!
man i hate that ****en game !
I heard so much hype around it from message boards thats its an island version of zelda. So i downloaded it.
At first it was like zelda and I was enjoying it, but than I got to the caves (dungeons for zelda fans) and those things are TEDIOUS and ANNOYING.
I seriously feel the game developers made this game to purposely upset you.
I felt like Angry Video Game Nerd with this game.
I didn't get far into the game, but I hate it with a passion. They are out to get you, seriously. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
one example
your inside a cave with narrow walkway. The walkway is surrounded by water, and if you fall into that water you die. Bats are in the cave and they push you off the narrow walkway into the water. And the lights go off maybe 2 seconds after entering that room. So you can't see anything but your own character. So you don't see the bats coming, you don't see the pathway, and don't see the water. So guess what ?? Yeah you will fall several times to your death because you can't see, or the bats push you into the water. You can kill the bats but you don't know where they are. Also did I mention when you die you start from the beginning of the cave and this area is in the middle of the cave ?? Yeah this game is out to get you.
You guys need to do this with Startropics to warn people about this horrible game.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 07, 2009, 02:59:56 PM
Startropics is great, yeah it has some cheap parts but the boss fights are epic, the humor is great, and the puzzles are pretty neat. I especially loved how in the original manual you got the solution to a puzzle by using the manual and dipping the letter in water, it was really a 4th wall breaking thing.
Not only that but the game had a ton of diverse locations and was quite challenging as well.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 07, 2009, 04:45:50 PM
Adolph, your story cannot be accurate, because there's no knock-back in StarTropics. In other words, enemies cannot push you into the water. There are a few cheap moments in the game, but they are almost always avoidable (if you pay REALLY close attention) or are punishment for greedy behavior (searching for a secret room when you are already in a secret room).
The only true gripe I have with StarTropics is that it never explains how to use magical items. Once someone tells you that, or you figure out in desperation, the game goes much more smoothly. (Protip: pause and press down or Select to see more items. Required for the second boss.)
I understand the Zelda comparisons, but StarTropics is actually a unique game with many, many interesting qualities. It's far more puzzle-based and twitch-based than any Zelda game. The controls are unusual to be sure, but they make more sense if you stick with the game and get used to its weird little rhythms. I certainly have childhood fondness for it (as Greg does for Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts), but StarTropics is definitely one of my favorite NES games and one I have recommended to many friends over the years. It's difficult, but not on the order of SGnG or even the average Mega Man game.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 07, 2009, 04:59:32 PM
I agree with everything you said Jonny. Startropics really isn't that comparable to Zelda. It does have some puzzles or items that are confusing, like you stated, but once you get the hang of it, it does go smoothly. The bosses are really challenging for the most party (I remember that ghost giving me big troubles!). Even though it scared me to death (and still does) the whale sequence was truly something unique at the time. Really I would call the game a Zelda/Platformer.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 07, 2009, 06:02:12 PM
StarTropics is difficult for the wrong reasons: the controls are terrible. When a game is difficult in this way rather than by design, I don't feel like I could ever improve at such a game.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 07, 2009, 06:03:36 PM
StarTropics is difficult for the wrong reasons: the controls are terrible. When a game is difficult in this way rather than by design, I don't feel like I could ever improve at such a game.
The controls weren't ideal but you could easily get used to them, just take your time. Most of the times I died was because I did something dumb. The game controls like LoZ just with jumping and minor platforming thrown in.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 07, 2009, 06:09:23 PM
Maybe you can get used to them easily, but I can't, especially not after playing the much-improved sequel. Combine bad control with the almost complete lack of invulnerability after getting hit, and it's a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 07, 2009, 08:56:24 PM
I think its controls are fine; what understandably puts off some people is the level design. In other words, the controls are very well suited to the gameplay, but the gameplay itself is so weird and defiantly stodgy that some people never get into it. The game is very strictly tile-based, even when you aren't literally standing on a tile, as Mike always moves per unit of space. Many enemies, like the snakes, are carefully placed to interplay with Mike's movement abilities. Off the top of my head, I can only compare it to the Lolo series. Then there's the jumping -- it is certainly not used as you would in a side-scrolling platformer. You can jump to dodge enemies, but since Mike goes straight up and down, the timing is pretty tight. When on tiles, you have to look ahead one or two moves and also try to match your jump timing with that of nearby enemies. Also, one vital and non-obvious technique is that you can change direction in mid-air. It won't change where you land, but it does allow you to attack enemies in mid-air if they pass by you on a parallel trajectory.
I haven't played StarTropics 2 in a very long time, but I distinctly recall feeling that the smoother controls no longer matched the gameplay, so it always felt off. Of course, I'm not opposed to smooth controls on principle, but it seemed like the level designs and combat were left alone, while the controls were changed significantly, and that left a rift that never felt right. I would be interested in giving the sequel another chance, though. Yet another one for the NES follow-up poll!
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 07, 2009, 10:11:01 PM
I love the chaos that occurs whenever a RetroActive poll goes up. I think it shows how great this feature is.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Stratos on May 07, 2009, 10:59:48 PM
In other words, the controls are very well suited to the gameplay, but the gameplay itself is so weird and defiantly stodgy that some people never get into it. The game is very strictly tile-based, even when you aren't literally standing on a tile, as Mike always moves per unit of space.
It's this restricted control that makes the controls feel sluggish and unresponsive, it feels like a step down from Zelda. Combine that with the half-second invulnerability and no knock back when hit, and it makes escaping and dodging enemies needlessly difficult. Every loss feels cheap. I think I got about halfway through the game before I got fed up with the abysmal control.
I'd recommend this game only to people with a tolerance for NES games. It's nowhere near as playable and accessible as games like Super Mario Brothers.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: adadad on May 09, 2009, 02:41:20 PM
I'd recommend this game only to people with a tolerance for NES games. It's nowhere near as playable and accessible as games like Super Mario Brothers.
Seconded. None of the other games in the poll feel as archaic as StarTropics (although I can't speak for Wrecking Crew).
I like River City Ransom but it feels a bit aimless and repetitive - it is a fun game however played co-op. And as some have mentioned already, whilst I love the Megaman series it's been discussed a hell of a lot. Hence I'm plumping for Zelda 2; I found it enjoyable, slightly frustrating, and it's also a fairly divisive entry in the Zelda series.
Most notably for me, I remember feeling when I played it on the VC that it was more enjoyable than Twilight Princess. And to think, I paid 10 times less for Zelda 2!
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on May 09, 2009, 03:23:54 PM
BARF <-- That should give you a hint of what I voted for.
Star Tropics 1 and Zoda's Revenge are awesome games. The only thing I didn't really like about it is how easy it is to die and the traps, but it's still very awesome and fun.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 09, 2009, 06:45:05 PM
I love StarTropics. It's probably one of my favorite NES games. It's cruel in parts, like in the ghost area, but the game's pretty solid imo. It's also got some of the best humor in a game from that era.
The sequel mucks it up a bit, but it just gets even crazier. I think I captured the sequel's strengths and weaknesses in my VC write up for it a while back.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 10, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that Super Mario Bros. 2 wasn't nominated, but 2 other games that I picked were nominated.
I think River City Ransom should win. Even though it is best played in co-op (like almost every beat 'em up game), it is still fun to play in single player. I also want an excuse to pick it up from the Wii Shop Channel (which is why I hoped SMB or SMB2 would be nominated since I already own both). I haven't played the game in years.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: AV on May 10, 2009, 03:12:57 PM
i got frustrated with startropics and I deleted it and never looked back.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Stratos on May 10, 2009, 08:55:03 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that Super Mario Bros. 2 wasn't nominated, but 2 other games that I picked were nominated.
I think River City Ransom should win. Even though it is best played in co-op (like almost every beat 'em up game), it is still fun to play in single player. I also want an excuse to pick it up from the Wii Shop Channel (which is why I hoped SMB or SMB2 would be nominated since I already own both). I haven't played the game in years.
SMB2 would be a good one to have in the follow up NES poll. Haven't played that one in over a decade. I nabbed it at a rummage sale with a pile of other NES games but my system does not work. I've been thinking of buying one of those 'redesigned' NES systems made by a different company. The Generation NEX (http://www.playmessiah.com/products/classics/generation-nex-videogame-console.htm). Looks pretty neat and it can even use your old controllers or they have new wireless ones too.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: adadad on May 10, 2009, 08:56:51 PM
i got frustrated with startropics and I deleted it and never looked back.
I understand this because I did pretty much the same thing, but I still felt that the game had some charm and humour. With the SD card channel, now does seem like a good time to go back and give it another try since there's no longer a pressing need to delete it for the purpose of freeing up harddrive space. Whaddaya say? Now's a better time than ever to 'look back' I'd say.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 10, 2009, 09:17:51 PM
I nabbed it at a rummage sale with a pile of other NES games but my system does not work. I've been thinking of buying one of those 'redesigned' NES systems made by a different company.
Exactly how does it not work? The best solution is to get a new 72-pin connector to put into your NES, they are a lot more reliable than the after-market knockoff systems.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: AV on May 11, 2009, 09:58:36 AM
i got frustrated with startropics and I deleted it and never looked back.
I understand this because I did pretty much the same thing, but I still felt that the game had some charm and humour. With the SD card channel, now does seem like a good time to go back and give it another try since there's no longer a pressing need to delete it for the purpose of freeing up harddrive space. Whaddaya say? Now's a better time than ever to 'look back' I'd say.
nope. I have other stuff not completed to play. I want to give Neutopia II another chance. I liked that game allot, but I got lost on the map so didn't come back to it so I forgot where things where, but its a very good clone of zelda.
oh yeah I did enjoy River City Ransom co-op as well. The only problem is that the game is so huge and to my knowing it has NO MAP . My friend and I wandered around for hours and have no clue where to go next or what to do next. I like the game, the leveling up and store aspects are fantastic, but I need some direction and a map. This feels like sandbox game where you can go anywhere and do anything, but like 20 years ahead of its time.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Stratos on May 11, 2009, 02:20:21 PM
I nabbed it at a rummage sale with a pile of other NES games but my system does not work. I've been thinking of buying one of those 'redesigned' NES systems made by a different company.
Exactly how does it not work? The best solution is to get a new 72-pin connector to put into your NES, they are a lot more reliable than the after-market knockoff systems.
I was going to fiddle around with it last night but all of that stuff was already packed and moved to my new place. I have half of my systems but all the games got moved already. Silly me.
i got frustrated with startropics and I deleted it and never looked back.
I understand this because I did pretty much the same thing, but I still felt that the game had some charm and humour. With the SD card channel, now does seem like a good time to go back and give it another try since there's no longer a pressing need to delete it for the purpose of freeing up harddrive space. Whaddaya say? Now's a better time than ever to 'look back' I'd say.
nope. I have other stuff not completed to play. I want to give Neutopia II another chance. I liked that game allot, but I got lost on the map so didn't come back to it so I forgot where things where, but its a very good clone of zelda.
oh yeah I did enjoy River City Ransom co-op as well. The only problem is that the game is so huge and to my knowing it has NO MAP . My friend and I wandered around for hours and have no clue where to go next or what to do next. I like the game, the leveling up and store aspects are fantastic, but I need some direction and a map. This feels like sandbox game where you can go anywhere and do anything, but like 20 years ahead of its time.
The first sandbox game maybe? What was the first?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 12, 2009, 08:44:41 PM
Gotta go StarTropics on this one. Subjecting the crew and listeners to Zelda II would just be awful, that game sucks.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 12, 2009, 09:34:39 PM
I don't think RCR is a sandbox game under the typical criteria. It's a brawler with RPG elements. Like many RPGs of its era, it doesn't give you a lot of direction.
A sandbox game has complex A.I. and rules that allow you to experiment in an open world and create unique situations based on your own choices and playing style. In other words, the world and characters react to you. That is not the case in River City Ransom.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: AV on May 12, 2009, 09:54:04 PM
I don't think RCR is a sandbox game under the typical criteria. It's a brawler with RPG elements. Like many RPGs of its era, it doesn't give you a lot of direction.
A sandbox game has complex A.I. and rules that allow you to experiment in an open world and create unique situations based on your own choices and playing style. In other words, the world and characters react to you. That is not the case in River City Ransom.
poor choice of world. Open world game might have been better. I really had NO clue where to go next and it seemed like I could go anywhere on the map.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on May 13, 2009, 07:34:19 AM
All these Zelda II haters are depressing. There is nothing wrong with that game. The sidescrolling swordplay is a lot of fun, and the world is really big. Just because it's not a typical Zelda game doesn't mean it sucks.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Sundoulos on May 13, 2009, 09:23:08 AM
With the possible exception of Wrecking Crew, I'd be excited to see any of these games win.
I'd agree; Zelda II wasn't a bad game at all. It's defintely not the best Zelda game, but it still ranks among my favorite games of the NES era. At any rate, I suspect that the game would be fodder for a great discussion on the podcast. That's one reason it got my vote.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 14, 2009, 01:57:09 PM
It's a tie! I'll confer with the other RFN guys to decide how we want to handle this. I don't know if they have all voted yet. It's possible we may cover both games over the period of a month or so (after E3).
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: vudu on May 14, 2009, 02:31:06 PM
I didn't vote. Can I be the tie breaker? ;)
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 14, 2009, 03:35:43 PM
Nope, that ship has sailed for you. I know one or two of the RFN guys usually recuse themselves from the process.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 14, 2009, 03:45:48 PM
Greg does not deserve to have his mind destroyed by the awful Zelda 2. Miyamotos self admitted trahslike failure of a mutant game should be buried with ET for all of eternity.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Stratos on May 14, 2009, 04:39:43 PM
I notice less people voted. I think it was because of the concealed voting. I propose opening up the polls to viewing again! ;)
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 14, 2009, 05:12:43 PM
All these Zelda II haters are depressing. There is nothing wrong with that game.
It's just proof that fans have always complained whenever Nintendo tries to do something different with a franchise, and it wasn't even a long-running series back then.
I notice less people voted. I think it was because of the concealed voting. I propose opening up the polls to viewing again! ;)
While I'm not sure if that's necessary the reason, I still agree with your suggestion.
I'm still not sure why exactly Jonny thinks we'll get "more productive" results by locking results visibility. (I thought this administration promised transparency (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=28051.0)?) Apparently he just doesn't want us to be able to pick our favorite games out of the ones that might have a chance at winning.
I'm not trying to turn this into a political thread, but people don't vote for third-party candidates because they know they don't have a shot at winning an election (Lieberman doesn't count). Unfortunately, the games with the best chance of winning aren't as obvious as political parties. Those poor fools who voted for Mega Man III might have all rather played River City Ransom (which is closer in design) than Star Tropics or Zelda II.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: vudu on May 14, 2009, 05:31:53 PM
If I had voted it would have been for Wrecking Crew (the only game that hasn't already been discussed ad nauseam) so it wouldn't have made a difference.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Caliban on May 14, 2009, 05:39:58 PM
Oh darn, I'm late. I would have voted for Zelda II because I love that game.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 14, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
I'm still not sure why exactly Jonny thinks we'll get "more productive" results by locking results visibility. (I thought this administration promised transparency (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=28051.0)?) Apparently he just doesn't want us to be able to pick our favorite games out of the ones that might have a chance at winning.
Every game in the poll has a chance of winning. I don't have a problem with campaigning, and in fact I have encouraged it. What I dislike, intensely, is voter manipulation at the polling station. In a real election, no one knows the results until polling stations have closed. I think there are very good reasons for doing it that way, and so I have used that format.
Early in the voting, StarTropics had a slow start, and it looked like the race would be between Zelda II and River City Ransom, with a possible challenge from Mega Man 3. If you guys were watching the results in real-time, you'd be nagging people to lump towards one you thought had the best chance of surging ahead. In effect, votes early in the process have a different influence than those at the end of the process. I just don't believe that is fair to anyone.
Quote
Those poor fools who voted for Mega Man III might have all rather played River City Ransom (which is closer in design) than Star Tropics or Zelda II.
In what universe are MM3 and River City Ransom close in design?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 14, 2009, 06:22:51 PM
River City Ransom lost. :(
I am pretty disappointed at that.
32 isn't a bad amount of voters. The last poll just had way more voters than normal.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: vudu on May 14, 2009, 08:19:41 PM
In a real election, no one knows the results until polling stations have closed. I think there are very good reasons for doing it that way, and so I have used that format.
Two words: Exit polling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit_polling)
In what universe are MM3 and River City Ransom close in design?
MM3 more closely resembles RCR than Star Tropics or Zelda II. Can you deny this?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 14, 2009, 08:40:08 PM
I know what exit polling is, and I'm not stopping you from doing that. I am the election commission; exit polling is done by independent organizations. You'd need to get the (voluntary!) participation of nearly all voters with such a small sample size in these polls, but you're welcome to try. However, I would ask that you keep it out of the thread.
MM3 has nothing in common with RCR, StarTropics, or Zelda II. It's a nonsense comparison.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: vudu on May 14, 2009, 08:50:43 PM
MM3 has nothing in common with RCR, StarTropics, or Zelda II. It's a nonsense comparison.
They're all on the NES. They have that in common. ;D
MM3 is a side-scroller. So is RCR. Star Tropics is not. Zelda II is at times (Wrecking Crew is a puzzle game).
Can you honestly say these games have nothing in common?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Stratos on May 15, 2009, 12:50:36 AM
So what your saying, Jonny, is that Vudu should start a FunHouse thread where he posts exit poll data? Would that be OK or do you think that people would abuse that like before?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Crimm on May 15, 2009, 02:05:38 AM
To respond to what Jonny said earlier, I do not vote in this because I want to give you guys the choice.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 15, 2009, 02:09:50 AM
I won't stop him from doing that. But again, he's responsible for surveying people, he should do it outside the actual poll threads, and some people may not want to participate in that. Statistically, it won't be effective unless he has near-perfect rate of participation, but he's welcome to try.
Obviously, I believe in maintaining parity and anonymity in voting, as a matter of principle. I would discourage fans of RetroActive from doing vudu's exit polling. Sorry if I sound like a prude, but if I didn't believe in a fair voting process, we wouldn't be having elections for this feature at all. If we're going to have a wishy-washy system with concurrent manipulation of results, I'd rather the RFN crew just choose games ourselves. It's because I value the listener input in this process that I am defending the voting standards. It was a mess at first, and I think this way is better.
By the way, James broke the tie -- as we recorded the next episode. We didn't know what he would choose until that moment, so I think I'll let you all be surprised too when you listen to it.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Stratos on May 15, 2009, 02:20:09 AM
Quick! Check all their twitter accounts to see if they leak the winning title! ;)
Considering it was James which title would be more conducive to one of his patented rants?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Mop it up on May 15, 2009, 02:25:10 AM
By the way, James broke the tie -- as we recorded the next episode. We didn't know what he would choose until that moment, so I think I'll let you all be surprised too when you listen to it.
I thought part of these polls was to have us play the game too and for some of our comments to be included in your discussion of the game?
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 15, 2009, 03:56:40 PM
By the way, James broke the tie -- as we recorded the next episode. We didn't know what he would choose until that moment, so I think I'll let you all be surprised too when you listen to it.
I thought part of these polls was to have us play the game too and for some of our comments to be included in your discussion of the game?
Definitely. Sunday's new episode only has the announcement of the poll winner. Forum comments about the game will be drawn from the game's own thread, which I'll create after the new episode goes up. We won't actually start discussing the game on-air until Ep. 148, which is two weeks away. Plenty of time to download, play, and argue in the forums!
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 15, 2009, 04:22:03 PM
Ah, OK. Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: RetroActive #6 Poll - NES
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on May 15, 2009, 09:34:29 PM
Now I feel guilty for not voting! Those two were the ones I was hoping would win. I feel like there's been plenty of Star Tropics discussion on RFN and Radio Trivia, though. As others have mentioned, Zelda 2 is an interesting specimen for discussion.
