Looks like it had potential, it is too bad the 3rd party restrictions held this game down. After a promising effort in Geist, n-space deserved at least one more shot (Preferably with a bigger budget).
Title: Re: Winter for Wii
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 20, 2009, 09:29:43 PM
Since Nintendo isn't publishing it, it's apparent Nintendo was out to crush mature gaming from the get-go.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 20, 2009, 09:31:07 PM
You should probably put:
"Tech Demo on Hold" or something of the like in the thread title...
Looks good...I hope someone picks it up so they can actually restart development on it...
Title: Re: Winter for Wii: Tech Demo on hold
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 20, 2009, 09:34:00 PM
Maybe Sega can pick it up. They seem to be doing a good job of snatching up or releasing more core games.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii: Tech Demo on hold
Post by: Urkel on January 20, 2009, 09:37:49 PM
The gameplay sounds almost exactly like the idea I had in my head for a Wii game, except I imagined it in first person. I imagined a horror game where you could open a door partway and peer through the crack, and you'd be able to pick up just about anything to use as a weapon.
I really hope this finds a publisher.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 20, 2009, 10:40:43 PM
Well, Conduit was quickly noticed after sites did stories on it. Maybe the same will happen with Winter...
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 20, 2009, 10:41:54 PM
I like the idea of this game and the setting.There was a movie kind of like this and that movie was turned into a game.It was for the Xbox. Can't remember it...
I hope that's the case Pap.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 20, 2009, 10:49:29 PM
Time to supercharge the n-space bandwagon with some Geist shower videos.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 20, 2009, 11:03:53 PM
I liked the Lord of the Rings battle music.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 20, 2009, 11:24:17 PM
Just watched the gameplay footage, while the visuals are definately early the game shows ton of promise (not to GOOD uses of of the WIi remote). Luckily I had my sound down or that wolf would have given me a heart attack! I also loved the final monster, that was really creepy.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 20, 2009, 11:44:18 PM
When I mentioned "The Conduit" earlier I never realized this: "Winter" might be this year's "Conduit".
When Conduit was revealed last year, it too was a core Wii title that had a lot of potential but no publisher. But months later after news sites saw a lot of interest they eventually found a publisher (Sega) and the game will be out soon.
Winter COULD get the same treatment. In just the few hours the game exists people are gaining interest. This could prove that there IS a market for a game like Winter.
So who knows? Maybe history will repeat itself, maybe not...
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 20, 2009, 11:51:24 PM
Winter will be a harder sell cuz it's not in development.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: ShyGuy on January 20, 2009, 11:55:54 PM
I wish to play this game, where do I preorder?
It actually gives me a Cursed Mountain vibe, but I really like it. the feeling of isolation seems fantastic.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: bustin98 on January 21, 2009, 02:15:48 AM
I too hope something comes from this disclosure. That last creature makes me want to draw it. A fantastic idea, and seemed to be the most polished aspect of the video with light reflection and flopping breasts (seemed like breasts anyway).
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 21, 2009, 02:17:37 AM
Damn, someone get these people a publisher, STAT...
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: KDR_11k on January 21, 2009, 03:39:29 AM
I don't think they'll have to worry as much as The Conduit, the Wii has some fairly big survigval horror titles lined up for it.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 21, 2009, 03:55:40 AM
Yes but there is room for more.:)
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 21, 2009, 04:08:07 AM
I'm thinking more about publishers thinking what concepts they can copy and if survival horror is already being made for the wii they'll copy that.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Kairon on January 21, 2009, 04:35:00 AM
The fact that no one has yet picked this up in the 2 years it's been shopped around makes my 3rd-party-loving heaart sad.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2009, 04:37:43 AM
Well, the more marketshare the Wii picks up, the more likely a third party will actually publish the game! =D
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 21, 2009, 07:05:32 AM
The name needs to be retitled: "Carnival Games: Escape the Evil Clowns edition" and marketed as wholesome non-gamer fun for the whole family. Then, and perhaps only then, will a 3rd party publisher pick it up and publish it, because the 3d parties know that's the only kind of game that sells on the Weeeeee.
/sarcasm
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: D_Average on January 21, 2009, 11:33:35 AM
Update on the game per Matts blog:
Winter Update: Things to Keep in Mind Tonight, I posted an update on the in-limbo survival-horror Wii game Winter from development studio n-Space. I was happy to see that a lot of readers were really quite taken by the concept -- there are dozens upon dozens of comments asking how a project like this failed when mini-game-fests succeed. We all know the answer lays with publishers' unwillingness to release this kind of software on Nintendo's system, a horrible Catch 22 that will hopefully be obliterated with the debut of titles like MadWorld and The Conduit.
But I was also discouraged to see some people making statements such as "Looks pretty rough!" and "The graphics look good in parts, but need work in others." Makes me question how many people actually read the article. Just a couple quick points for those who didn't bother:
1. All the screenshots and video footage available come from a demo built by a small 12-person development team at n-Space in three weeks; and then three more to add a bit more polish 2. All the screenshots and video footage available come from a demo released to publishers just shy of TWO YEARS AGO. That would be March '07
Just something to consider. n-Space's Dan O'Leary and Ted Newman both indicate that the software house has come a long way since then and I have no doubt that Winter would like significantly better if a) the team had 12-plus-months to work on it and b) had a bigger team allocated to it. Let's also not forget that were the company to work on such a property today, it would undoubtedly benefit from all the techniques it has learned in the two years since the demo was created.
Personally, I really liked what I saw. The creepy aesthetic reminded me of Flashback.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: EasyCure on January 21, 2009, 11:38:49 AM
Flashback was a SNES game, wasn't it?
My brother had it borrowed from a friend way back when, and I didn't know what the hell to do in it at the time and kept dying. Later on i read up on the game and thought it was pretty cool, but couldn't find it anywhere.
/sad
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 21, 2009, 11:53:10 AM
ALONE IN THE SNOW.
hawt.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2009, 01:15:45 PM
Quote
Well, the more marketshare the Wii picks up, the more likely a third party will actually publish the game! =D
More marketshare?! What the fact that the Wii is clearly the market leader by a large margin isn't enough? Marketshare already has been proven to not mean crap. Now I know that's illogical and stupid but that's just the way things are. The Wii can sell as much as it wants but to third parties it's the granny non-game shovelware console. That's the reason no publisher picked up this game. If it had to do with marketshare the Wii would be getting ALL of the major games like the PS2 did before it.
What the Wii needs is for some exclusive third party core game that isn't some lame-oh spinoff and is clearly considered an A-title that would be a big release on the other consoles to be a huge smash hit. THAT is what will prove the Wii is "worthy" of being treated like a real console and not some fad novelty item.
Third parties just don't think games that are, you know, good will sell on the Wii. They think the userbase is all old people and girls. The more the Wii sells, to them it just means more old people and girls to sell junk to. And while there is all sorts of sales evidence that third parties are wrong about this that doesn't seem to be making a difference. Someone has to take the risk and PROVE that a game like this will sell. Square Enix is taking the "risk" with Dragon Quest X but that's probably years away and we need someone sooner.
I hope the Conduit can do it but I don't think that truly qualifies. It sounds more like it's merely good by Wii third party standards and wouldn't stand out at all on the other consoles. But it could still could work. I hope it's really good and it sells really well.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: D_Average on January 21, 2009, 01:47:45 PM
My brother had it borrowed from a friend way back when, and I didn't know what the hell to do in it at the time and kept dying. Later on i read up on the game and thought it was pretty cool, but couldn't find it anywhere.
/sad
Yeup. It confused the hell out of me too, as I think I was 14 when I played. Yet even then, I found it very interesting. It'd be sweet to see it on the VC sometime.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 21, 2009, 02:22:13 PM
Maybe as Nintendo fans its up to us to BUY whatever hardcore 3rd party games we can while rejecting their softcore offerings. Even if the hardcore games suck, maybe we still need to buy them in order to stimulate new and better ones to be published.
On the other hand, Nintendo really should publish this themselves.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: D_Average on January 21, 2009, 02:24:45 PM
Maybe as Nintendo fans its up to us to BUY whatever hardcore 3rd party games we can while rejecting their softcore offerings. Even if the hardcore games suck, maybe we still need to buy them in order to stimulate new and better ones to be published.
On the other hand, Nintendo really should publish this themselves.
Even if everyone on the forums did this, it wouldn't make a bit of difference.......
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 21, 2009, 02:25:38 PM
True traditional serious Nintendo fans don't buy 3rd party games. Look at the previous 2 generations.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: vudu on January 21, 2009, 02:53:05 PM
It looked like it would a chore to play. I don't like that you click on a drawer and then it shows you a zoomed in image of the drawer and you have to click on it again to open it. Why not do it in one swoop?
I'm going to have nightmares of playing this game and happening upon an apothecary chest in a deserted basement.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2009, 03:27:07 PM
Quote
Maybe as Nintendo fans its up to us to BUY whatever hardcore 3rd party games we can while rejecting their softcore offerings. Even if the hardcore games suck, maybe we still need to buy them in order to stimulate new and better ones to be published.
Supporting games that suck will just encourage the development of sucky games. The third parties will interpret sales trends into whatever requires the least effort. If you buy lousy hardcore games they'll interpret it as "hey we can just release crap and they'll buy it." That's the whole problem with the Wii period. Non-games sell and third parties interpret "non-game" to mean "shovelware" and act accordingly.
Support good games. Don't settle for games that you don't think are that hot. Don't buy a lousy game because you're desperate to play something. Go hungry before eating sh!t. I hear people talk about how such-and-such a game is not THAT bad and has an okay concept in theory and if you ignore these bugs it's alright... I can't stand that. A game doesn't deserve your purchase just because it's almost competent.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: D_Average on January 21, 2009, 03:55:29 PM
Maybe as Nintendo fans its up to us to BUY whatever hardcore 3rd party games we can while rejecting their softcore offerings. Even if the hardcore games suck, maybe we still need to buy them in order to stimulate new and better ones to be published.
. Go hungry before eating sh!t.
What if you can spot a couple peanuts in it?
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: bustin98 on January 21, 2009, 04:48:21 PM
Eww..
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: AV on January 21, 2009, 07:54:22 PM
I am so in love with the ideas in the game. I hate the fact it might never see light of day
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Adrock on January 21, 2009, 08:02:23 PM
Looks pretty good for a demo supposedly thrown together by a dozen guys in a couple of weeks. Seems a little slow though maybe that's the point. If it is, I'll file this under "not for me."
There's a difference between this and The Conduit. Winter is just a demo and should a publisher pick this up, we won't see a release date until at least late next year whereas The Conduit was pretty far along once Sega picked it up. The Conduit is a much easier sell on the Wii considering its genre both in terms of popularity and use of the Wii remote. I hope Winter gets a publisher just so there's more variety on the Wii and because n-Space seems far more serious than many developers.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 21, 2009, 08:20:43 PM
Looks pretty good for a demo supposedly thrown together by a dozen guys in a couple of weeks. Seems a little slow though maybe that's the point. If it is, I'll file this under "not for me."
There's a difference between this and The Conduit. Winter is just a demo and should a publisher pick this up, we won't see a release date until at least late next year whereas The Conduit was pretty far along once Sega picked it up. The Conduit is a much easier sell on the Wii considering its genre both in terms of popularity and use of the Wii remote. I hope Winter gets a publisher just so there's more variety on the Wii and because n-Space seems far more serious than many developers.
Yeah that is the main problem, it is a demo build, and not a game that is still under development. Still n-space is an experienced developer, who, in the past has shown they have some great ideas. While Geist was extremely unpolished it was extremely unique.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: EasyCure on January 21, 2009, 08:28:53 PM
I hear people talk about how such-and-such a game is not THAT bad and has an okay concept in theory and if you ignore these bugs it's alright... I can't stand that. A game doesn't deserve your purchase just because it's almost competent.
You're right IanSane, you shouldn't buy games you don't like and games you don't want. But I don't think I care to be held to anyone's standards of fun besides my own.
In the past that list has included Alien Syndrome, Sonic: SotR, and Ghost Squad. I'd like to think that it's no coincidence that in the future it may include The Conduit, House of the Dead, and Mad World.
Note: No, I am not a Sega fan. &P
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 21, 2009, 09:32:10 PM
Quote
Alien Syndrome
We really should be honored to have Kairon as one of the sole owners of Alien Syndrome!
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Kairon on January 21, 2009, 09:45:02 PM
And let's not forget, by purchasing Ping Pals on the DS I and about 100,000 others helped bring Contra IV to the DS via WayForward!
Looks like Kairon's got us there.
Anyways, I didn't like all the camera switching stuff....reminded me of resident evil. However I do love the idea and I did like the video, that last enemy reminded me of the witch in Left 4 Dead when it finally attacked. I'm sure if they had say a year and add about 20-30 guys to the team this game would be pretty rock solid. If it ever comes out it has me as a potential buyer.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Dasmos on January 21, 2009, 11:32:43 PM
I've come to dislike them because I found it harder to submit news about indie devs working on Wii projects because gaming sites "don't want to be duped by another Nibris." and I can't blame them for not wanting to look foolish. :\
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 22, 2009, 03:56:30 AM
Maybe as Nintendo fans its up to us to BUY whatever hardcore 3rd party games we can while rejecting their softcore offerings. Even if the hardcore games suck, maybe we still need to buy them in order to stimulate new and better ones to be published.
Supporting games that suck will just encourage the development of sucky games. The third parties will interpret sales trends into whatever requires the least effort. If you buy lousy hardcore games they'll interpret it as "hey we can just release crap and they'll buy it." That's the whole problem with the Wii period. Non-games sell and third parties interpret "non-game" to mean "shovelware" and act accordingly.
Support good games. Don't settle for games that you don't think are that hot. Don't buy a lousy game because you're desperate to play something. Go hungry before eating sh!t. I hear people talk about how such-and-such a game is not THAT bad and has an okay concept in theory and if you ignore these bugs it's alright... I can't stand that. A game doesn't deserve your purchase just because it's almost competent.
It is very unfortunate, but I think the big shots who decide what gets funded and published don't actually play the games or understand the concept of quality. They understand what the game is about and the genre of it, but I don't think they are aware of how fun it is. If a shoddy hardcore game which happens to be a great concept flops on the Wii then they interpret it as that genre being unsellable on that system, and they will refuse to fund future projects down the line.
Do you remember Red Steel? It was a great idea for a game and would have been great if it had been completed properly, but the publisher rushed it out so that it would be available during the Wii's launch. As it turns out, due to the drought of such games at launch, Red Steel did extremely well, even though it was a shoddy rush job. I know it sucks if you were one of those who bought it at full price, but the good thing about that is now we have Red Steel 2 in production, and this time the company promised it will be done better and done right.
But if Red Steel one had flopped, you can be sure we wouldn't be getting a more polished sequel later on. I know thats unfortunate, and I know it shouldn't be that way, but that is how it is. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty in manure so that you can grow great roses, you know?
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 22, 2009, 04:05:35 AM
Also with Winter, yeah it is rough around the edges but when you put it into perspective in regards to how quickly they put it together it shows tons of promise, especially with some unique uses of the Wiimote, not to mention some very well done (and scary) scenes.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: KDR_11k on January 22, 2009, 05:28:43 AM
Ah whatever, just let the publishers who refuse to acknowledge the Wii and heap bigger and bigger budgets on HD games that turn out to be B-level at best go out of business.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 22, 2009, 06:58:59 AM
Ah whatever, just let the publishers who refuse to acknowledge the Wii and heap bigger and bigger budgets on HD games that turn out to be B-level at best go out of business.
That goes right with what happened to Seta. They were only able to developed one game, Project Sylpheed for 360 which apparently bombed. Since they were a smaller publisher this obviously was the main cause behind their departure from gaming. Now imagine if they would have picked up Winter, the budget would have been massively less and even if it didn't do amazingly well they could at least suck it up much easier then what happened to them.
Also with Winter, yeah it is rough around the edges but when you put it into perspective in regards to how quickly they put it together it shows tons of promise, especially with some unique uses of the Wiimote, not to mention some very well done (and scary) scenes.
This shouldn't need to be repeated as often as it did, but unfortunately the internet has turned people into near mindless posting zombies who spit out idiotic comments before learning the facts.
With that said, this demo that was put together by only about a dozen people in a matter of weeks, is very impressive in not only its visuals but the gameplay elements shown. Potential indeed.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: KDR_11k on January 22, 2009, 09:31:53 AM
Huh? I thought Project Sylpheed was published by Square-Enix.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on January 22, 2009, 12:11:18 PM
Huh? I thought Project Sylpheed was published by Square-Enix.
Project Sylpheed actually co-published by Microsoft and Square-Enix and so is Infinite Undiscovery(Microsoft funded the game but gave it to square-enix to ensure game sales in Japan and it worked).
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Ian Sane on January 22, 2009, 12:53:47 PM
Quote
Ah whatever, just let the publishers who refuse to acknowledge the Wii and heap bigger and bigger budgets on HD games that turn out to be B-level at best go out of business.
What does that leave us with then? Nintendo and a bunch of a third parties who just release shovelware junk? I think it would better for gaming if these publishers smartened up and supported the Wii. Talented developers going under isn't good for anybody.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 22, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
Talented developers going under isn't good for anybody.
In the long run I think it is. If companies refuse (or are too stupid) to learn from their mistakes, then they DESERVE to go out of business, and its a good thing when they do... its Darwinism at its finiest. When the stupid and slow adapting dinosaurs go extinct that's when the smart and stealthy mammals can rise up.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: EasyCure on January 22, 2009, 01:56:50 PM
Talented developers going under isn't good for anybody.
In the long run I think it is. If companies refuse (or are too stupid) to learn from their mistakes, then they DESERVE to go out of business, and its a good thing when they do... its Darwinism at its finiest. When the stupid and slow adapting dinosaurs go extinct that's when the smart and stealthy mammals can rise up.
This. Ian acts like those stupid devs/publishers going under means no one will be there to pick up where they left off and be smart enough to invest in the system thats making money right now. You can't say that they'd just end up making crappy shovelware either, because if that was EVER to happen any core gamer, and especially those who condider themselves hardcore, would abandon ship. When sales start to drop on all fronts, someone has to realize that there was a market there for core games, and will try to get those gamers back by pleasing them.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Kairon on January 22, 2009, 02:13:31 PM
Talented developers going under isn't good for anybody.
In the long run I think it is. If companies refuse (or are too stupid) to learn from their mistakes, then they DESERVE to go out of business, and its a good thing when they do... its Darwinism at its finiest. When the stupid and slow adapting dinosaurs go extinct that's when the smart and stealthy mammals can rise up.
This. Ian acts like those stupid devs/publishers going under means no one will be there to pick up where they left off and be smart enough to invest in the system thats making money right now. You can't say that they'd just end up making crappy shovelware either, because if that was EVER to happen any core gamer, and especially those who condider themselves hardcore, would abandon ship. When sales start to drop on all fronts, someone has to realize that there was a market there for core games, and will try to get those gamers back by pleasing them.
This. New companies will grow to fill the newly-empty ecological niches. There'll be a wave of new blood and a wave of new ideas and approaches. Just because Dinosaurs died out doesn't mean that life as we know it ends. It just becomes more exciting.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Stogi on January 22, 2009, 02:22:00 PM
I disagree. Those small developers that "pick up the slack" are exactly that; small. They can't afford to compete against bigger development companies, and thus are crushed. Unless....unless they take advantage of things such as Wiiware or make small niche titles that make them enough money to stay afloat.
The videogame industry is a harsh business. Catering to the hardcore is a terrible idea. Why? Because we are so damn fickle. Sure we think we know what we want, but we don't know. It's best to focus on niches. Find your niche. The only reason Nintendo focuses on us is because of our loyalty. We will stick around if we get fed. That's it. They try to please us and to turn more people into us, and that's their goal. However, other companies can't afford to take that risk and compete on Nintendo's turf.
Now while I understand that, I really wish someone would. But the fact that you have to have a similar genius to even attract the Nintendo hardcore is very intimidating.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Kairon on January 22, 2009, 02:42:10 PM
I disagree. Those small developers that "pick up the slack" are exactly that; small. They can't afford to compete against bigger development companies, and thus are crushed. Unless....unless they take advantage of things such as Wiiware or make small niche titles that make them enough money to stay afloat.
The videogame industry is a harsh business. Catering to the hardcore is a terrible idea. Why? Because we are so damn fickle. Sure we think we know what we want, but we don't know. It's best to focus on niches. Find your niche. The only reason Nintendo focuses on us is because of our loyalty. We will stick around if we get fed. That's it. They try to please us and to turn more people into us, and that's their goal. However, other companies can't afford to take that risk and compete on Nintendo's turf.
Now while I understand that, I really wish someone would. But the fact that you have to have a similar genius to even attract the Nintendo hardcore is very intimidating.
Well, I was thinking that if the traditional large companies fade into the background, then those small companies would grow and increase in size to fill that empty niche.
I also don't agree that it's a bad idea to play to the hardcore. I think it's actually interesting that you argue that Nintendo is serving their hardcore, and I agree with this actually, though it's a minority opinion. But it's a bad idea to let that audience's fervor get to your head. Hardcore gamers can distort reality to make it seem as if they're the center of the universe, and it's rare to find a company like Atlus who doesn't get drunk on that sort of perception and can remain humble and sensible, or a company like Nintendo with the gall to simply pursue their own course regardless of our clamorings.
Also, you make it sound like the Nintendo hardcore are too demanding, as if Nintendo's ruined us for every other developer out there. If so... WE'RE the problem. *scared* Let's all go out and buy more third party games...
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Ian Sane on January 22, 2009, 03:00:34 PM
Quote
You can't say that they'd just end up making crappy shovelware either, because if that was EVER to happen any core gamer, and especially those who condider themselves hardcore, would abandon ship. When sales start to drop on all fronts, someone has to realize that there was a market there for core games, and will try to get those gamers back by pleasing them.
What if the non-gamer market is strong enough that core gamers abandoning ship is of no real concern? The big fear is that with Nintendo making so much money from non-gamers that core gaming becomes so niche that it just isn't anyone's focus anymore. I don't want the Wii to thrive as is. I want it to get better. Third parties jumping ship would improve the Wii, third parties dying as they support the competition does not. I don't want it where the only companies that survived were the ones that focused on non-gamers because I really doubt an industry consisting entirely of companies like that is suddenly going to get all core gamer friendly.
The concern is why will Nintendo continue to target core gamers when non-gamers greatly outnumber them and non-games are cheaper and easier to make. Expand that to the entire industry? F*ck. I think it's much better for gaming if those companies just bring their core games to the Wii and make the Wii a great console for ALL demographics.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Kairon on January 22, 2009, 03:04:39 PM
I don't want the Wii to thrive as is. I want it to get better. Third parties jumping ship would improve the Wii, third parties dying as they support the competition does not. ... I think it's much better for gaming if those companies just bring their core games to the Wii and make the Wii a great console for ALL demographics.
These parts of your post, Ian, I think everyone will agree with. I'm beginning to think that it just comes down to third-parties failing us.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2009, 03:05:44 PM
Capcom is bringing a core game called Bread Rising to Wii next month.
Will Ian buy that?
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: EasyCure on January 22, 2009, 03:58:03 PM
That breads a few years old, i'm sure its stale by now
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Stogi on January 22, 2009, 04:00:00 PM
You speak as if you have balls, but your lack of conviction is deterring....
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2009, 04:16:33 PM
Easycure eats bacteria-consumed bread, confirmed.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 22, 2009, 05:17:34 PM
I disagree. Those small developers that "pick up the slack" are exactly that; small.
Weren't mammals small at the time when the Dinosaurs went extinct? But it didn't take long for mammals to fill the niches that dinosaurs once held! With the big cold-blooded reptiles out of the picture, tiny rat-like creatures were free to balloon up into wholly mammoths and rhinoceroses and ground sloths and all those other giant ice age creatures.
You're right that small companies can't afford some stuff, but they aren't going to STAY small. Things change, obviously. Need I point out how we now have a new president who is so different than the old one or how Nintendo was 3rd place last gen but is now 1st place? The world gets turned upside down all the time, and the small don't always stay small, and the big ones eventually get smashed by the meteor of change.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Stogi on January 22, 2009, 05:21:34 PM
Umm.....WTF are you talking about?
Money = evolution?
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Kairon on January 22, 2009, 05:43:54 PM
Money = species success
Ecological niches = market niches/demographics
Dinosaurs = large unwieldy companies ill-suited for sudden climate/market shifts
Early Mammals = small companies that survive the market shift due to their modest ambitions and requirements
Rhinoceroses, Elephants, Lions, Wolves, Whales, etc. = small companies that have grown in size to fill ecological/market niches previously occupied by dinosaurs/larger companies
Wii = "Meteor of change"
I'm just scared of what will happen when Humans come along, cuz they throw a wrench in the whole thing.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Stogi on January 22, 2009, 05:59:07 PM
Umm sorry to bust your metaphorical bubble, but that doesn't apply; no matter how cute it is.
This is business. When a "meteor" hits, people adapt, they are not blown off the face of the earth. Besides, the bigger companies publish titles made by smaller companies. What metaphor is used for that? Piglets sucking at their mother's teet?
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 22, 2009, 06:02:03 PM
Besides, the bigger companies publish titles made by smaller companies. What metaphor is used for that?
The mammals scavenging from the kills of the big dinos?
Yeah yeah, no analogy is perfect. But either way, we were just exploring the perspectives we could use to view things.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2009, 06:50:56 PM
sixaxis = faildapter avatars = they're not in Wii Sports/Fit/Everything, and they don't have product/brand identity/recognition It's not adapting if it isn't working =D These items haven't made a difference, so I'd say they're not contributing to the prosperity/survival of their parent products.
PS3 and 360 attempting to adapt with niche-use products is not directly related to the idea of the publishers/devs shifting directions to produce content for a different kind of market leader. (but if Sony says they're still leading the market, that's a different cuccoo topic altogether)
It's publishers like Sega, Majesco, and Marvelous who've shown to be directly responding to the changes in the market.
A "meteor" is too extreme of a metaphor.
Rising sea levels and disappearing land masses (BLUE OCEAN LOL) is a more gradual representation of what's going on.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Stogi on January 22, 2009, 06:54:00 PM
Forgoing the metaphors for a moment might be more beneficial. Look, I'm not trying to defend publishers, I just want to point out, as someone who will soon be in the battlefield of business, that you have to be wise with your investments. In fact, it maybe because WE want the game that it would be financial irresponsible to support it.
Really we may never know what ultimately turned them away from the project...Maybe they simply couldn't afford it?
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2009, 06:59:33 PM
Yeah, the pubs probably had their balls stapled to the ceiling at the time cuz they were already arse-deep in HD dev costs, and simply politely turned down the non-casual-game-on-casual-system.
And it looks even LESS likely anyone can afford to invest in it now, economicky speaking.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Stogi on January 22, 2009, 07:15:17 PM
So IGN has started a petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/wiinter/petition.html
Sign it if you'd like.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: WuTangTurtle on January 22, 2009, 11:45:41 PM
already almost 5,000 signatures. That's pretty impressive especially since it just barely went up. Then again petitions don't work on this kinda stuff......hope i have to eat my own words here though.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Djunknown on January 23, 2009, 12:15:42 AM
Checked out the interview at IGN and enjoyed this choice quote:
Quote
Publishers still say to us on a regular basis, "we're still trying to figure out the Wii." It's been over two years since the launch and over three since n-Space first put our hands on prototype controllers. It's kind of ironic really -- you've got this console built on innovation, a console written off by many from day one, that now totally dominates the market, and yet many publishers still hesitate to follow suit with innovative games in all genres.
Another one that made me say WTF BBQ?
Quote
Some publishers did suggest tying another license to the concept. This wasn't something we were opposed to, but it didn't get a deal signed either. Ultimately, it was a combination of factors that kept us from finding a home for Winter, most related to publishers having to go out of their comfort zone.
The interview is a few days old but here (http://wii.ign.com/articles/946/946492p1.html)it is.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 23, 2009, 01:57:24 AM
already almost 5,000 signatures. That's pretty impressive especially since it just barely went up. Then again petitions don't work on this kinda stuff......hope i have to eat my own words here though.
Didn't it work with Conduit?
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 23, 2009, 03:05:49 AM
Everyone sign that petition. Even if it doesn't work out, you've only lost 10 seconds of your life by signing it.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 23, 2009, 03:56:43 AM
I went and signed it.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 23, 2009, 03:59:47 AM
I signed!
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: EasyCure on January 23, 2009, 11:44:31 AM
Petition is signed, since I'm not doing much at work anyway.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 23, 2009, 11:47:16 AM
I have already signed. I don't like survival horror games, but I like the concept of the game...specially the idea of potentially dying from the cold so you have to worry about keeping the body warm.
Besides, just because I don't like the type of game it is...doesn't mean I should not support the games existence.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: EasyCure on January 23, 2009, 11:49:02 AM
I have already signed. I don't like survival horror games, but I like the concept of the game...specially the idea of potentially dying from the cold so you have to worry about keeping the body warm.
Besides, just because I don't like the type of game it is...doesn't mean I should not support the games existence.
You, sir, are a good gamer.
I wish i had some magical way of knowing who everyone is that signed, and if the game does get developed find out how many of them actually bought the game even if it ended up getting like a 7.5 in review scores :)
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Peachylala on January 23, 2009, 12:28:12 PM
At the moment of my signing, there are now 7068 signatures.
Quote
I wish i had some magical way of knowing who everyone is that signed, and if the game does get developed find out how many of them actually bought the game even if it ended up not getting reviewed properly.
*fixed
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: EasyCure on January 23, 2009, 12:30:47 PM
At the moment of my signing, there are now 7068 signatures.
Quote
I wish i had some magical way of knowing who everyone is that signed, and if the game does get developed find out how many of them actually bought the game even if it ended up not getting reviewed properly and passed on it because of stupid scores.
*fixed
Thanks but double-fix.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: Kairon on January 23, 2009, 10:48:07 PM
God that petition has so many grammatical and spelling mistakes it's painful to read.
Title: Re: Winter for Wii, survival horror that may never see the light of day
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 24, 2009, 12:05:26 AM
Which part of the reason why it's going nowhere.
I think the bigger influence is seeing the Winter story popping up on front pages of many "press" sites.
