Community Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: UncleBob on December 13, 2008, 02:53:42 PM
Title: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: UncleBob on December 13, 2008, 02:53:42 PM
As most of you likely have likely heard by now (or, at least, those of you based out of the US), a couple of weekends ago, a Walmart employee was killed by a mob of people trying to get cheap plastic crap offered in limited quantities.
Let's put aside Walmart's fault in this incident (and yes, they do have some fault). Let's put aside the local police's fault in the incident (they were called out several times for assistance before the fatal incident).
I want to look at the individuals who mobbed the store, tore down the doors assaulted others and stepped on a man until he died.
What drives a person to do such a thing? Awesome prices? Perhaps, but, to be honest, the deals weren't that great.
Today, I had an incident that just shocked me. We had a free moment and one of our game case doors has been giving us trouble, as if it was going to fall out. I've worked with these doors/cases several times, so I grabbed a screwdriver and another associate to help me, as these doors are real glass and real heavy.
So, by the time we get the door off, a young kid was beside us playing the 360 and a couple other kids were looking at the games - meaning we had to work extra careful to not crush anyone. After a few minutes, an older lady came up and asked my co-worker and I if we had "this game", pointing to a piece of paper that had some Spyro game for the PS3 written on it. My co-worker told her he "didn't think" we had it and I told her if we did have it, it'd be in one of the first two cases. She said "okay", then went down to look...
...about 30 seconds later, she says to me "I don't see it, maybe I'm just overlooking it. Could one of you come down here and help me?" Politely (at this point) I say "Just as soon as we get this door put back on, we'll be right there."
The customer's eyes grew three sizes that day. "How long will that take?" (asks the customer, in a demanding tone).
"I'm sorry ma'mn, but I'm not sure." (I'm no door fixing expert) "We'll help you as soon as we can." I'm sure the tone in my voice likely changed at this point.
"Well, isn't that the point of you guys? Aren't you supposed to be here to help customers?"
"Yes ma'mn, but this glass door is pretty heavy and I don't want anyone to get hurt if it was to fall or something." (Eying toward the various children around).
"I thought it was customers first."
"Ma'mn, it's always safety first. I'll be with you as soon as I can."
She looks for a few more seconds, then leaves. She spent far more time throwing a fit than even looking.
Now, I understand that, to her, this video game was important. However, at what point is it so important that it's worth risking the lives of strangers over?
The Walmart store in New York where the associate was trampled had the same problem. When trying to close the store, customers argued and threw a fit, expressing no interest in the human being they just trampled to death, but want to know how the store was going to honor the deals.
'Tis the season, indeed.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Caliban on December 13, 2008, 11:01:32 PM
*sigh* I totally know what you mean.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 13, 2008, 11:37:12 PM
A subject that is rather easy to answer, but difficult to understand...Humans are selfish creatures that don't think about the consequences they reap until they come back and punch them in the gut...
I commend you on your patience, though...Rude people like that tend to set me off...
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 13, 2008, 11:46:15 PM
Yeah, I still blame Wal-Mart (and the mob of people, but they wouldn't be there if Wal-Mart didn't make them think they should be) for the clerk's death. Safety first is a good policy, and obviously wasn't applied to the situation in New York. Wal-Mart is one of the worst corporations on the planet - sure they employ a lot of people, which is nice, but they also shut down business after business, and pay people in China less money per day than even the door greeters make in an hour.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 14, 2008, 01:19:55 AM
It all comes down to people just don't care anymore. Our current culture has made it pretty much acceptable to be this way because it has been made into a culture where everyone for themselves, and those that get in the way be damned for being foolish.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: RABicle on December 14, 2008, 01:50:06 AM
I reckon we should just cancel all future christmases. Seriously can anyone recall a good Christmas?
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: ShyGuy on December 14, 2008, 02:09:10 AM
Wait, Spyro is on the PS3? I thought the B grade video game stars of yesteryear were strictly on the Wii.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 14, 2008, 02:28:50 AM
I'll be blunt here, I really despise people using isolated incidents like the trampling or particular customers being rude as painting a picture of what it is like with everyone. Let me say I work with a retailer and while there are rude, obnoxious people, there are so many more decent, polite people who show respect and kindness. Heck I see it when I go shopping, for example on the big Black Friday rush, I opened a door for a guy (Boy guys get nervous when I do that sometimes!) and the item he was after was down to one. Instead of snagging it, he asked me if this was what I was looking for, and since I was polite to open the door for him he was going to let me have it. I am not even going to start on all the money and time people spend volunteering to help feed the homeless or try to work hard so unfortunate kids can enjoy a christmas of their own. Not to mention that these people demonstrate a trait that seems to be lost both here, and in our society, which is taking personal responsibility whether it is for their good or bad actions instead of blaming someone else.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Kairon on December 14, 2008, 02:31:55 AM
I reckon we should just cancel all future christmases. Seriously can anyone recall a good Christmas?
My family makes it a policy to do all our christmas shopping during the OTHER 11 months of the year. That way we can weather Christmas with as little "holiday rush" as possible.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Kairon on December 14, 2008, 02:34:31 AM
Heck I see it when I go shopping, for example on the big Black Friday rush, I opened a door for a guy (Boy guys get nervous when I do that sometimes!) and the item he was after was down to one. Instead of snagging it, he asked me if this was what I was looking for, and since I was polite to open the door for him he was going to let me have it.
Wow! Of course, that's not a huge deal, but its random acts of kindness like that that really do add up.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 14, 2008, 02:39:27 AM
Heck I see it when I go shopping, for example on the big Black Friday rush, I opened a door for a guy (Boy guys get nervous when I do that sometimes!) and the item he was after was down to one. Instead of snagging it, he asked me if this was what I was looking for, and since I was polite to open the door for him he was going to let me have it.
Wow! Of course, that's not a huge deal, but its random acts of kindness like that that really do add up.
Yeah I Know it isn't a big deal, but I'm just trying to show that anecdotal can go both ways. My guess is if you took the rude/obnoxious people compared to people who actually act decently, you'd fine most people are not like that but that is not saying one butthead can't spoil the day (I've been there too but even then I try to step back).
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Kairon on December 14, 2008, 02:40:44 AM
I didn't need to work in retail to realize that I hated people. I just needed to play WoW for two years.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 14, 2008, 03:14:13 AM
I didn't need to work in retail to realize that I hated people. I just needed to play WoW for two years.
Lol.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: nickmitch on December 14, 2008, 03:59:42 AM
I thought that whole trampling situation was pretty fucked up, but people are just like that sometimes. And we can point the finger at anybody, but it won't solve the problem. Is is the people who actually trampled the guy and didn't think twice about not giving a ****? Yes, of course it is. But, can we blame them? Probably not. Who we can blame is the big, faceless corporation which is entirely comprised of both people like the guy who died and the people who killed him. But they get all the blame. However, people expect deals on Black Friday. Walmart has to provide those deals or miss out on huge sales revenue, which would cost the whole supply chain, from greeters to sweatshop workers. It's in their best interest to make you want to shop at their locations. That's business. They ust expect people to not act like total savages over 75 cent savings on fucking tube socks.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: UncleBob on December 14, 2008, 08:19:54 AM
I'll be blunt here, I really despise people using isolated incidents like the trampling or particular customers being rude as painting a picture of what it is like with everyone. Let me say I work with a retailer and while there are rude, obnoxious people, there are so many more decent, polite people who show respect and kindness. Heck I see it when I go shopping, for example on the big Black Friday rush, I opened a door for a guy (Boy guys get nervous when I do that sometimes!) and the item he was after was down to one. Instead of snagging it, he asked me if this was what I was looking for, and since I was polite to open the door for him he was going to let me have it. I am not even going to start on all the money and time people spend volunteering to help feed the homeless or try to work hard so unfortunate kids can enjoy a christmas of their own. Not to mention that these people demonstrate a trait that seems to be lost both here, and in our society, which is taking personal responsibility whether it is for their good or bad actions instead of blaming someone else.
A large group of people killing a human being by stepping on him trumps your old man letting you buy cheap plastic crap because you opened the door for him story. By a lot.
For every guy working at a soup kitchen story you post, I can find a guy mugging people story. For every millionaire donating money to the poor story you post, I can find a millionaire screwing someone over story.
People are stupid, greedy and lazy. Not all people, mind you. Just most of them.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: EasyCure on December 14, 2008, 01:17:34 PM
It all comes down to people just don't care anymore. Our current culture has made it pretty much acceptable to be this way because it has been made into a culture where everyone for themselves, and those that get in the way be damned for being foolish.
I'll be blunt here, I really despise people using isolated incidents like the trampling or particular customers being rude as painting a picture of what it is like with everyone. Let me say I work with a retailer and while there are rude, obnoxious people, there are so many more decent, polite people who show respect and kindness. Heck I see it when I go shopping, for example on the big Black Friday rush, I opened a door for a guy (Boy guys get nervous when I do that sometimes!) and the item he was after was down to one. Instead of snagging it, he asked me if this was what I was looking for, and since I was polite to open the door for him he was going to let me have it. I am not even going to start on all the money and time people spend volunteering to help feed the homeless or try to work hard so unfortunate kids can enjoy a christmas of their own. Not to mention that these people demonstrate a trait that seems to be lost both here, and in our society, which is taking personal responsibility whether it is for their good or bad actions instead of blaming someone else.
A large group of people killing a human being by stepping on him trumps your old man letting you buy cheap plastic crap because you opened the door for him story. By a lot.
For every guy working at a soup kitchen story you post, I can find a guy mugging people story. For every millionaire donating money to the poor story you post, I can find a millionaire screwing someone over story.
People are stupid, greedy and lazy. Not all people, mind you. Just most of them.
I agree with this last point over yours GP. There are just too many more selfish pricks out there, as well as too many apathetic folk, to overshadow the nice people in the world and they come from all walks of life. Its sad, but its the truth.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 14, 2008, 06:12:06 PM
I'll be blunt here, I really despise people using isolated incidents like the trampling or particular customers being rude as painting a picture of what it is like with everyone. Let me say I work with a retailer and while there are rude, obnoxious people, there are so many more decent, polite people who show respect and kindness. Heck I see it when I go shopping, for example on the big Black Friday rush, I opened a door for a guy (Boy guys get nervous when I do that sometimes!) and the item he was after was down to one. Instead of snagging it, he asked me if this was what I was looking for, and since I was polite to open the door for him he was going to let me have it. I am not even going to start on all the money and time people spend volunteering to help feed the homeless or try to work hard so unfortunate kids can enjoy a christmas of their own. Not to mention that these people demonstrate a trait that seems to be lost both here, and in our society, which is taking personal responsibility whether it is for their good or bad actions instead of blaming someone else.
A large group of people killing a human being by stepping on him trumps your old man letting you buy cheap plastic crap because you opened the door for him story. By a lot.
For every guy working at a soup kitchen story you post, I can find a guy mugging people story. For every millionaire donating money to the poor story you post, I can find a millionaire screwing someone over story.
People are stupid, greedy and lazy. Not all people, mind you. Just most of them.
Glad I don't live in such a pathetic world as yours, you sound like a very unhappy person and I actually pity you. You have some anger issues, maybe you should go see someone about that. You may be amazed but the Walmart incident was an isolated one. (Not to mention you show a lack of reading comprehension because I was more talking about your rude old lady) Also I do find it amazing you state only millionaires donate to the poor, it is more the middle class that do, you know people who don't have nearly as much to give?
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Kairon on December 14, 2008, 06:18:54 PM
Guys guys ITS CHRISTMAS! Geez.... let's.... let's delay all the negativity until January? Huh? That's when my birthday is, so it'll be perfect.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 14, 2008, 06:25:49 PM
Guys guys ITS CHRISTMAS! Geez.... let's.... let's delay all the negativity until January? Huh? That's when my birthday is, so it'll be perfect.
I'll have no problem delaying my negativity until Christmas, because I actually love the holiday and what it does to people. It is those who spout this kind of crap as the overriding truth is what puts a damper on my holiday cheer.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 14, 2008, 06:29:13 PM
Also I do find it amazing you state only millionaires donate to the poor, it is more the middle class that do, you know people who don't have nearly as much to give?
I'm pretty sure he was just using it as an example, not the rule... =)
You may be amazed but the Walmart incident was an isolated one.
Well thankfully! It'd be a problem if people were trampled every day...But the truth is, every incident of this kind of behavior isn't reported, and unfortunately only comes to light when something like this happens (aka, someone dying as a result of it)...Of course, you shouldn't let these kind of people ruin your own happiness, so if you stay positive maybe you can change some of them... =)
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 14, 2008, 06:32:13 PM
Also I do find it amazing you state only millionaires donate to the poor, it is more the middle class that do, you know people who don't have nearly as much to give?
I'm pretty sure he was just using it as an example, not the rule... =)
You may be amazed but the Walmart incident was an isolated one.
Well thankfully! It'd be a problem if people were trampled every day...But the truth is, every incident of this kind of behavior isn't reported, and unfortunately only comes to light when something like this happens (aka, someone dying as a result of it)...Of course, you shouldn't let these kind of people ruin your own happiness, so if you stay positive maybe you can change some of them... =)
Any proof to back that up? Let's say there were 10 incidents like this, what percentage is that overall? Pretty insignificant, and really I have a feeling it depends more on the area these places are in. Some communities, well, have pretty low standards of right and wrong. I've been to quite a few Black Friday sales and not once was anyone trampled.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 14, 2008, 06:33:33 PM
Yup, there are stupid, lazy, and selfish people out there. At Wal-Mart you're definitely going to be exposed to a higher percentage of them. Trust me UncleBob, once you get out of Wal-Mart and get a job that isn't customer-facing you'll like the world a whole lot more. There are plenty of good people out there.
Any job directly involving the exchange of money in any fashion - retailer, bank teller, whatever - is going to expose you to a whole lot of idiocy. I thank my lucky stars I got into software development. I only have to deal with office politics and the occasional person that's completely incompetent.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 14, 2008, 06:35:06 PM
My overall point is that anecdotal evidence whether good or bad is extremely flawed in representing things. ESPECIALLY since it is basic human nature to take a negative incident or experience and use that as the overriding viewpoint of certain things, even IF percentage wise that is not the case. Like I said every butthead I encounter I stand back and analyze how many people I've interacted with that were decent and polite and the overwhelming majority are, so it helps put it into perspective.
Are there uncaring, lazy, greedy and rude people out there? Of course. Probably far more than they should but that doesn't mean that is what most are like. To paint everyone with such a negative brush is just as rude, and self centered as some actions those very people do. You are letting your own negative encounters affect your perception of everyone. It is unfair and not right. Treat people as individuals, I know I wouldn't want to be lumped into the crowd that trampled an innocent person in a disgusting display of human greed, and I doubt you'd want to either.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: UncleBob on December 14, 2008, 07:37:14 PM
Glad I don't live in such a pathetic world as yours1, you sound like a very unhappy person and I actually pity you. You have some anger issues2, maybe you should go see someone about that. You may be amazed but the Walmart incident was an isolated one.3 (Not to mention you show a lack of reading comprehension because I was more talking about your rude old lady)4 Also I do find it amazing you state only millionaires donate to the poor,5 it is more the middle class that do, you know people who don't have nearly as much to give?
1: Believe it or not, we live in the same world (unless we're communicating through some kind of weird space/time vortex). We just see it differently. Perhaps we've had different life experiences, eh? 2: I do, but that's what my wife is for. ;) 3: The trampling? Yeah. The pushing, shoving, assaulting and rudeness? Not at all. The trampling was just the one that made the news. 4: And to that, I reply with:
I'll be blunt here, I really despise people using isolated incidents like the trampling or particular customers being rude as painting a picture of what it is like with everyone.
5: As Bill pointed out, I said nothing of the like. I'm well aware of and involved in middle class charitable giving. Perhaps it's your reading skills that lack?
I'll have no problem delaying my negativity until Christmas, because I actually love the holiday and what it does to people. It is those who spout this kind of crap as the overriding truth is what puts a damper on my holiday cheer.
If this is what puts a damper on your holiday cheer, then you're lucky. People killing other people killing other people over cheap plastic crap tend to do it more to me. But whatever floats your boat.
Yup, there are stupid, lazy, and selfish people out there. At Wal-Mart you're definitely going to be exposed to a higher percentage of them. Trust me UncleBob, once you get out of Wal-Mart and get a job that isn't customer-facing you'll like the world a whole lot more. There are plenty of good people out there.
There are loads of good people out there. But, as you said, I run into a higher percentage of the SSL (Stupid, Selfish and Lazy) group. I too attribute this to working with the general population. I feel this puts me in touch with a wider variety of people - which, unfortunately, isn't necessarily a good thing. Getting out of the "profession" won't change the world, it'll just change the people I work with on a regular basis. The same amount of rude, uncaring, thoughtless people will be out there. But what can you do?
Treat people as individuals, I know I wouldn't want to be lumped into the crowd that trampled an innocent person in a disgusting display of human greed, and I doubt you'd want to either.
On a regular basis, I do try my best to treat people as individuals and not let my fuming anger over one customer spread to how I treat others. I admit, I'm not the best at this, but I do try. But it doesn't change the fact that I deal with a lot of stupid people on a regular basis.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: EasyCure on December 14, 2008, 07:52:44 PM
GP stop arguing with UB. Im sure he feels guilty enough about robbing that bank (http://gonintendo.com/?p=65198), and now you're just making him feel worse for this.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 14, 2008, 08:41:57 PM
UB should show his fat, ugly, hairy, pink nipples more often. That way, raged customers might either stop and stare them in awe, or be freaked out and leave the store.
Why complain about people when you have the ultimate weapon on your chest, UB?
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: EasyCure on December 14, 2008, 10:22:54 PM
UB should show his fat, ugly, hairy, pink nipples more often. That way, raged customers might either stop and stare them in awe, or be freaked out and leave the store.
Why complain about people when you have the ultimate weapon on your chest, UB?
Theres only one weapon mighty enough to defeat the the Mighty Man Nipple of Glory... and thats sexual harrasment lawsuits in the workplace
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Pale on December 14, 2008, 10:41:01 PM
Firslty, props to EasyCure and Pap for trying to defuse the frustration here. ;)
Secondly. There are a ton of crummy people out there. But you know what the best way to combat them is? With overarching positivity. Therefore, UB and GP are actually on the same side. One wants people to be better. The other is optimistic and pleasant!
So stop fighting! :)
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: EasyCure on December 14, 2008, 11:25:39 PM
Firslty, props to EasyCure and Pap for trying to defuse the frustration here. ;)
Heh.. does that make up for my lude comments in the funhouse? ;)
I know where UncleBob is coming from having worked in that feild, and still working in a similar field, and really when you're in that position you do get to see the rude side of people. Like he said, getting a job in a different field where you don't deal with people as customers doesn't really change anything, becuase those people are still out there. The saddest part is these rude people could be the nicest people to anyone they call a friend but to complete strangers they act like monster.
I've seen regular customers that treated staff like they were garbage turn into friends to all, and in one odd occasion i saw a customer go back to being a jerk to staff at a DIFFERENT job! When you experience something like that, its easy to be fooled into thinking EVERYONE is a jerk/snob.
Also GP.. a rant like this, especially this time of year, is coming from someone clearly frustrated and upset, and your attacks against him don't help. We all know you like to debate, and are good at it, but sometimes it feels like you cross some lines, and its not necessary.
Also, Pale spelled "firstly" wrong and its bugging me. I know i shouldn't talk since i make typos all the time but..eh!
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 14, 2008, 11:48:11 PM
Don't believe GP...Her idea of spreading "holiday cheer" is by shaking fruit out of all your trees, trapping you with a barrier of holes, and chasing you around with an axe! =(
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Caliban on December 14, 2008, 11:57:03 PM
because I actually love the holiday and what it does to people
As much as an anti-social Human being I can be, and if you met me you could probably call me a cold-hearted jerk, son of a bitch, retard, egotistical, nasty little prick, scum, etcetera... I just think that a holiday is not a reason to express oneself as a mature Human with all the ups and downs that come with life. I've met a lot of good people where I work, and just as many awful people. It is a matter of courtesy to behave with understanding and patience.
I'm not trying to sermon you in any way. I am just reacting to what you have posted, and do not have any ill intention towards you. I will not apologize if I offended you, and if the mods deem my post offensive go ahead and penalize me.
Signed:
[scribble]Caliban[/scribble]
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 15, 2008, 12:01:54 AM
Don't believe GP...Her idea of spreading "holiday cheer" is by shaking fruit out of all your trees, trapping you with a barrier of holes, and chasing you around with an axe! =(
Actually, she is being awfully nice to you. I would have destroyed all the flowers, harassed all the villagers and wrote "Bill is a ******" a hundred times on the bulletin board! ;) XD :p
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: UncleBob on December 15, 2008, 12:25:00 AM
UB should show his fat, ugly, hairy, pink nipples more often. That way, raged customers might either stop and stare them in awe, or be freaked out and leave the store.
Why complain about people when you have the ultimate weapon on your chest, UB?
Also GP.. a rant like this, especially this time of year, is coming from someone clearly frustrated and upset, and your attacks against him don't help. We all know you like to debate, and are good at it, but sometimes it feels like you cross some lines, and its not necessary.
Don't be too hard on GP - she's just got a completely different view of the world than I do.
For example, when I read her story, I see how it supports my view. This guy was so shocked that someone out there actually expressed common courtesy (holding a door open) that he felt he had to give up his cheap plastic crap for it. Apparently, this man has seen the more common side of people as well.
GP then goes on to say that she loves the holidays because of "what it does to people." - It's as if it's okay if people are jerks 340 days out of the year, so long as they're "nice" for 25 or something. Personally, I'd prefer a world were people are "good for goodness sakes" and not in celebration of a fake holiday that's been even more bastardized into a reason to spend money to show people you love them.
GP and I have different life experiences that have lead us to different views in life. I'm not going to sit here and say she's had it easy, for I don't know what she's been through. But I do know what I've been through and it's enough to bring me down after a day of work where old ladies would rather risk the lives of young children so they can buy video games.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: Kairon on December 15, 2008, 02:13:36 AM
-baleeted-
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 15, 2008, 04:48:14 AM
Trampling people is not a conscious decision, whenever you have huge masses of people moving around with no central coordination anyone who trips gets trampled. It's simple, you have tons of people all squashed into a small area so no individual can control the movement, when the bulk moves everyone inside either follows or suffers. The ones who can actually see that there's someone on the ground cannot prevent the movement because they're being pushed from behind and there's no room to evade. Unorganized blobs that want to go somewhere have some pressure inside, the larger and denser the blob the more pressure there is and the less anyone can steer the thing.
In short, tons of people wanting to get on the other side of a chokepoint ASAP = moving wall of death
Of course assholish or stupid behaviour happens a lot too but trampling is a crowd thing and doesn't depend on any individual's choices (except maybe the police's). That lady that demanded attention when you were busy was really damn stupid but as the saying goes, "There are only two infinite things in the world, the universe and human stupidity and I'm not so sure about the universe."
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: EasyCure on December 15, 2008, 09:07:06 AM
I was being hard on GP??
Quote
In short, tons of people wanting to get on the other side of a chokepoint ASAP = moving wall of death
I agree with this but only to a certain point. If you look at something like concerts its a slightly different story because theres a different mindset here. I know, I know, its not EXACTLY the same as 'tons of people wanting to get on the other side of the chokepoint' because there obviously is no chokepoint to get thru, just a barricade everyone knows to stop at, but theres still a large group of people pushing forward even though theres an obvious saturation point, so I think this still applies.
The difference with this and a Black Friday crowd is theres usually a sense of comradery at a concert. Everyone wants to get as close as possible to the band they're seeing, but theres still a respect for one another because of the mutual interest. Yes, people get trampled at concerts as well, but normally when you see someone fall, you help them get back up. Thats my experience anyway, and its also my experience that Black Friday crowds aren't like this.. at all. There's a common interest in everyone wants to get a bargain, sure, but it comes from a more selfish place in that the mentality is "I HAVE to get the bargain before anyone else!"
The very nature of Black Friday shopping is a selfish rush to beat the other guy and grab the last thing on the shelf and the earlier the better because if not you'll miss out! Its clearly an 'every man for themselves' event so no one would bother trying to help another human being up because "hey **** 'em, i gots to get me a wii for xmas!"
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: UncleBob on December 15, 2008, 09:39:40 AM
EasyCure said it best. Mobs of people make it through bottlenecks without a problem quite often.
The problem in this particular case, apparently, was that the store did not open until 5 AM. There were groups of people waiting in their car and groups of people waiting at the doors. As it got closer to five, the people in their cars got out and tried to push their way up to the doors.
1. Always 2. Every year theres a Black Friday trampling incident, its isolated in this case because it resulted in the death of an innocent person and thats why it made it natioinal news, but tune in to your local news channels and you'll get a story of someone being injured, sometimes they end up in ICU or whatever, but the point is theres always someone injured at a major retail chain on Black Friday.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 15, 2008, 11:16:30 AM
Well, time to put in my two cents...
In way, both UB and GP are right.
UB's anger is somewhat justified because I too experienced similar events which question my integrity and hope in people. This is common among people who either want to do good or are just living their lives.
Not to mention that UB works at retail. In my honest opinion, retail employees are some of the most ignored and disrespected people in the world. People are so caught up in their materialism that they forget that the person helping them with their purchase are human beings as well and that they are putting up with them because they have bills to pay and families to feed. In way, I can see why UB would be so angry, especially since it involves the death of a fellow employee.
But GP is right, too. Its very easy to hate, its very easy to be angry at people. Its hard, however, to maintain a positive attitude and just moving on. If we let our negativity take over then we aren't really making a difference or making the world better. In fact, you are contributing to the other thing that made you angry in the first place! Hate creates even more hate, and it leads to destruction.
So to sum it up...
Don't be hard on UB. He is just venting frustration typically seen in his line of work.
Don't be hard on GP. She is just trying to comfort everyone with the belief that despite bad events and people there's still something to look forward to.
In hopes of not sounding sarcastic, I want to wish EVERYONE a happy and safe holidays, whether you hate people or not ;) .
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: EasyCure on December 15, 2008, 01:39:39 PM
Time to put in another 2 cents and summarize pap64's post into something we could all appreciate:
Quote from: Yoda
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: UncleBob on December 15, 2008, 09:52:29 PM
can we rename this thread "Beware: Trekkies" instead so i dont keep coming in here? thanks (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=26717.msg468275#msg468275)
Zap: The new title doesnt work, i'm nosey when it comes to stuff that might involve me ;)
Made my quote clicky :)
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: oohhboy on December 16, 2008, 12:52:34 AM
Quote from: Captain Jean-Luc Picard
I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And *I* will make them pay for what they've done
I believe this is more appropriate.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 16, 2008, 05:07:18 AM
There was a joke here but I took it down because I thought it might be in bad taste.
Title: Re: My Christmas Rant - Or why I hate people.
Post by: EasyCure on December 16, 2008, 11:26:40 AM
