Community Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: ThePerm on August 22, 2008, 09:28:01 PM
Title: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 22, 2008, 09:28:01 PM
So they want to reboot the superman series, whats the frickin point? There are all sorts of angles for batman or james bond to be done, but wtf there isn't many ways to do superman
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 22, 2008, 10:16:45 PM
I dunno... they could try doing him... Good?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ShyGuy on August 22, 2008, 10:42:43 PM
Too soon for an origin after Smallville.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 22, 2008, 10:53:19 PM
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 23, 2008, 12:00:06 AM
They could pull a Green Lantern on us.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 23, 2008, 03:08:55 AM
Dot Matrix? Megabyte? Hexadecimal? Game cube?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: AV on August 24, 2008, 08:10:01 PM
Superman Returns is a great movie, the people who don't like the movie don't like the character to begin with. Yes it should of been more of its own movie, not just a tribute of the other movies. It needed more action, simple as that but Bryan Singer and Brandon Routh know how to do it well.
It made 400 million Worldwide thats not a "bomb" by any means. The dark knight is amazing because Sequels tend to be better movies than the original. Just look at X-men 2 , Spiderman 2, Superman 2, are all better originals.
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Given the astounding commercial success of the grim and gritty Dark Knight, Robinov says Warners's upcoming DC movie slate is "going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it," and the next Superman movie will be no exception.
Superman Reboot (http://movies.ign.com/articles/902/902038p1.html) [size=36] These execs don't even get it, SUPERMAN IS NOT DARK. HE CAN"T BE DARK. BATMAN IS DARK THATS WHO HE IS, BATMAN WORKED BUT THAT SAME FORMULA 'MAKE IT DARK" DOESN'T WORK FOR SUPERMAN. [/size] Just allow Singer to do what he wants. He already promised more action and more engaging enemy.
The average score for Superman Returns was 77% thats not horrible by any means. The movie made a profit don't allow these execs destroy superman. If Execs got what they wanted he would of worn a black suit and killed a giant spider. These execs don't get it
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 24, 2008, 08:57:06 PM
Look, I like Superman as a character. I saw Superman Returns twice in theaters. However the movie had some pretty serious flaws. Lois having Superbaby, even though she shouldn't remember her and Clark sleeping together in Superman 2? Superman lifting giant land masses into the sky while having kryptonite shoved into his skin (not to mention the giant chunk next to his head)? Frickin' normal human Lex Luthor punching Superman? What? Bring on Darkseid, Brainiac, even Metallo, if you must... Lex Luthor in the movies is a joke - could you imangine him, say, becoming president? He's a fool in the movies and to make yet another Superman movie featuring him is a disgrace to the audience. Ditch the established media Superman (various movies, Smallville series, etc...) and start over. Hell, feature Lex Luthor in a new movie, but make him Lex, not a clown in a purple suit - we already have one of those.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: vudu on August 24, 2008, 09:08:12 PM
I hate Superman. That's my contribution to this thread.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nitsu niflheim on August 24, 2008, 09:41:18 PM
IMO the reason Superman Returns didn't do as well as projected was because it wasn't a origin picture. While it specifically and intentionally wasn't a sequel to Superman or Superman II, it played off those two movies and both of them were well over 20 years old at the time Superman Returns came out. It wasn't a bad movie, I enjoyed it and have seen it more than once, but for a movie franchise which started out great and turned to crap by the last movie, which was released in 1987, 19 years before Superman Returns, it should have been different or more. And Superman Returns ignored Superman III & IV, for reasons that III was campy but fun and IV was a cash in that was hurt because of budget cuts. Too much time had passed, so Superman Returns should have been the second movie released after a proper origin movie was released first.
But for my personal choice, of all the DC comics franchises, Batman was and is my all time favorite. Next would be Wonder Woman because I like chicks that kick ass. =D Then would be Superman.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 24, 2008, 09:47:22 PM
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Superman Returns is a great movie, the people who don't like the movie don't like the character to begin with. Yes it should of been more of its own movie, not just a tribute of the other movies. It needed more action, simple as that but Bryan Singer and Brandon Routh know how to do it well.
Yeah that is it, it is IMPOSSIBLE to not like the movie if you like Superman ::rolls eyes::. I personally LOVE Superman but thought it spit on everything that was Superman, including his morals, not to mention the goofy stuff like lifting a Kryptonite mountain. Not to mention it had too much cheesyness to it, something I grew extremely tired of after the first Superman movies.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ShyGuy on August 24, 2008, 11:18:13 PM
It turned Supes into a creepy stalker. with a murderous illegitimate son. It also indirectly helped screw up X Men 3.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 24, 2008, 11:24:25 PM
It turned Supes into a creepy stalker. with a murderous illegitimate son. It also indirectly helped screw up X Men 3.
Never before in my life have I agreed with someone more.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: King of Twitch on August 24, 2008, 11:40:52 PM
I'm sick of ports and sequels
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: bustin98 on August 24, 2008, 11:45:35 PM
Um, spoilers? I haven't seen the film yet. Seriously.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Ian Sane on August 25, 2008, 12:20:58 PM
Superman Returns was okay I guess. I seemed to enjoy it while watching it but hardly remember anything about it now and don't have any plans on seeing it again. It felt too derivative. Luthor's whole scheme was practically lifted from the first film. Plus it is pre-crisis Superman. Lex Luthor is a much more interesting character in the post-crisis comics.
Making a dark Superman however will suck ass. How come the suits never get this? If everything is the same then nothing stands out and no one cares. Yet so often execs are always pushing for that. Every fall 90% of the new shows are a rip-off of whatever breakthru show became a hit last year. Any popular new videogame or movie or music act or whatever is copied to death. They never realize the whole REASON the original product got so much attention in the first place is because it stood out. Batman and Superman both belong to the same company and have co-existed for decades and a big reason for that is because they're different.
Plus I don't get why they always want to fiddle with proven source material. Superman has been a successful comic for 70 YEARS! He's been around longer then probably every suit suggesting dark Superman has been alive. Maybe, just maybe, that continously successful design is good enough to attract an audience, especially since Superman Returns DID attract an audience.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: vudu on August 25, 2008, 02:04:18 PM
Um, spoilers? I haven't seen the film yet. Seriously.
Then what are you doing in this thread?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: bustin98 on August 25, 2008, 02:13:41 PM
No one had to mention 'murderous illegitimate son' while talking about rebooting the Superman franchise. One of the reasons I haven't seen the film is the bad press, but I still plan on seeing it.
Any news on Warner Bros retooling the series is welcomed by me, and I like to read what people have to say about it. So there!
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 25, 2008, 02:38:41 PM
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Making a dark Superman however will suck ass.
Superman Animated Series shows you why this does not "suck ass". While it had a few tongue in cheek episodes it had a much more serious tone than the movies.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Athrun Zala on August 25, 2008, 04:28:54 PM
It turned Supes into a creepy stalker. with a murderous illegitimate son. It also indirectly helped screw up X Men 3.
yes, that's the reason why I hated Returns =(
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: redgiemental on August 25, 2008, 09:23:31 PM
I'm actually all for a darker Superman in theme. You saw some darkside to his character in the Justice League cartoon in particular. I think it would make a change from the original movies.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on August 25, 2008, 10:03:35 PM
Superman Animated Series shows you why this does not "suck ass". While it had a few tongue in cheek episodes it had a much more serious tone than the movies.
I'm sure you're referring to the episode(s) where Supes was brainwashed and forced to attack the Earth. That was actually pretty sweet. It also proves that the cartoon versions of most comic books are definitive. Superman had action, drama and a lot of non-suckage that Superman Returns could have used.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 25, 2008, 10:07:44 PM
Superman Animated Series shows you why this does not "suck ass". While it had a few tongue in cheek episodes it had a much more serious tone than the movies.
I'm sure you're referring to the episode(s) where Supes was brainwashed and forced to attack the Earth. That was actually pretty sweet. It also proves that the cartoon versions of most comic books are definitive. Superman had action, drama and a lot of non-suckage that Superman Returns could have used.
Yep that is the one. If only the movies would follow a similar tone. It is kind refreshing to see Batman actually take a similar direction as the Animated Series (though it takes it a step further and made it even darker).
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 26, 2008, 01:47:02 AM
so, i was at a bar and one of my drunk friends mentioned how they were going to make a superman but dark. He was like so like superman will just be dark right..he was talking about the lighting. I was like what they're just going to make the whole movie chiarro scurro instead of day glow? He had no idea what i was talking about.
i don't think superman needs to be darker, but more or less there needs to be a change of style, maybe something along the lines of Sin City or 300, a literal comic book made shot for shot into a movie.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ShyGuy on August 26, 2008, 02:07:30 AM
I disagree. I think Iron Man and The Dark Knight were successful because they didn't ape the comic book form. They translated the characters and story for cinema, but not the medium from whence they came.
Come to think of it, Iron Man had a great lighter-but-realistic tone that I think would work well for a Superman movie.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 26, 2008, 02:51:22 AM
saying their going to make superman dark is like saying they are going to make spiderman dark. They're about the same tone. I just hope they don't just bastardize superman. Although come to think of it Superman is a bastard. The question is can they make superman cool? When i was little i loved superman.
they can't make superman darker, but they can make him deeper. Maybe he should be cooler like james bond or indianna jones, and bang a few more girls then Lois. Maybe he should be sexier...fucking Lois outside of Teri Hatcher has been a 2-d character, Small ville is still on the air!
im going to be at my parents for a week i'm thinking about writing a graphic novel..but not a superman one :) Maybe DC will like it :)
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 26, 2008, 12:12:59 PM
Maybe he could be Afro-American.
go green lantern! go black vulcan! (that's SUPERVOLT, BIOTCH)
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 26, 2008, 03:17:11 PM
that seems too political. There have been a couple remakes where that made a great difference in character like Nick Fury, kingpin, but i don't see that working in Superman's case. We already have a black superman movie. That was Hancock. When they made batman begins they didn't make batman darker, they made him deeper.
the last superman i thought was visually pretty good except a few flaws
Brandon Routh was pale in Reeves footprints, Reeve wasn't even the first choice for the part, they need someone ridiculously ripped.
Lois sucked, she was 2d, no personality, at least Teri Hatcher was sexy and sassy on Lois and Clark. Here is where the movie failed. Without interesting characters the movie isn't interesting.
Create some over arching philosophy. spiderman and batman movies have a message. I really can't see the message in some superman movies
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on August 26, 2008, 04:43:18 PM
This new series should be note for like what they're doing for Batman:
Superman Starts The Man of Steel 3rd Movie
Only, with brighter colors.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Maverick on August 26, 2008, 05:18:07 PM
I actually liked Superman Returns quite a bit, so I'm disappointed with this news. I understand that it had plenty of faults, but I wish they would work with the established movie-verse and improve the series as a whole rather than simply saying "Eh, it ONLY made 400 million dollars, REBOOT!".
Brandon Routh is a great replacement for Reeve, and Brian Singer is a very capable director who probably should have just made more of his own movie rather than a tribute to the first two Supermans. I also enjoyed Spacey as Luthor. It would just be a shame to see them go.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Adrock on August 26, 2008, 07:04:51 PM
I hope they reconsider. I thought Superman Returns was a well-made movie. I really liked the idea of the main conflict and opposition in the film being the passage of time and that being the one thing Superman cannot overcome. Returns was more of a character piece than a full-blown action movie which some people didn't like. It lacked action, but it approached Superman in a different way. My problem was the length, mostly due to the movie being both an origin story and not an origin story. Singer chose to reintroduce Superman, but already as Superman (flashbacks to his childhood were just unnecessary).
I guess I don't understand the purpose of a reboot. Critics loved Returns and it made $400 million. How is that grounds for a reboot? On top of that, Returns itself kind of restarted the franchise anyway.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Maverick on August 26, 2008, 07:41:20 PM
They have to make Superman teh hardcorez to be respected like Batman.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Ian Sane on August 26, 2008, 07:51:21 PM
I think those of you pointing to the Superman animated series (and Justice League) as proof that dark Superman works are missing the point. Do you honestly think movie company executives are going to make something on par with that? I assume they want like Superman Xtreme. Maybe it CAN be done right but do you think it will particularly when those involved want to reboot the series despite the previous film being both a critical and financial success? I see it just as "make it like Batman because Dark Knight is so popular" and I can't imagine anything good coming from that kind of attitude.
Though I have thought of something that could be cool. If they made it so that Superman existed in the same world as the Batman movies (a bit of a stretch since those movies try to be "realistic") then you could make a film adaptation of Dark Knight Returns. :)
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 26, 2008, 07:55:54 PM
Yeah SUperman was a huge success, it barely managed to pass 200 million domestically and didn't even hit 400 million internationally, topped with a 250+ million dollar budget. Wow, amazing! The movie really limped to the finish line and it is not surprise why they feel they need to go another direction.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Adrock on August 26, 2008, 10:47:51 PM
"Go in a different direction" could easily mean "NOT spend $250 million" instead of "reboot the entire series."
What sucks about starting/restarting a franchise is the origin story. That's always the weakest part.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Maverick on August 27, 2008, 02:08:54 AM
If they do a complete reboot, I would hope that they avoided the origin story entirely. Let's jump in to see Superman already as Superman, already kicking ass 'Cause he is X-Treme now., and mention/show/reveal bits and pieces of his backstory throughout the movie/series.
There's no reason to make the first half of the film his origin story, everyone and their grandmother (and probably their grandmother's mother) knows the origin of Superman.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 27, 2008, 02:57:43 AM
If they do a complete reboot, I would hope that they avoided the origin story entirely. Let's jump in to see Superman already as Superman, already kicking ass 'Cause he is X-Treme now., and mention/show/reveal bits and pieces of his backstory throughout the movie/series.
There's no reason to make the first half of the film his origin story, everyone and their grandmother (and probably their grandmother's mother) knows the origin of Superman.
exactly, iv head the superman backstory like 10 times now, no more!
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 27, 2008, 05:59:41 AM
"Go in a different direction" could easily mean "NOT spend $250 million" instead of "reboot the entire series."
What sucks about starting/restarting a franchise is the origin story. That's always the weakest part.
This I agree with 100%, I really hate the origin story. It eats up too much time and you have to expect the movie will barely touch (at least in the context of the total running time) on the crime fighting/superhero aspect of the character.
MAYBE the new Superman will do what they did with the Incredible Hulk, they "reboot" it but don't bother with the origin story.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Ian Sane on August 27, 2008, 12:11:57 PM
I've never understood why people crap on origin stories. Everywhere it seems like they're treated like this necessary evil that restricts the first film. I always kind that stuff really interesting. But then I like story and characterization and stuff like that so I can understand if Joe Blow "the best part was when he kicked the guy!" mainstream movie viewer doesn't like it. But it seems that everyone craps on origins but myself and my brothers.
Though orgin stories can be done poorly. In Mad Max 90% of the movie is his origin and then he kicks ass for like five minutes and the movie's over. Just when the film starts rolling it ends like they had to make the movie exactly 90 minutes and rushed the ending to fit it.
I like the long origin in the first Superman movie but it did it so well that we really don't need to see it done again in that level of detail. But a quick intro where you see a meteorite hit the ground and his parents finding a super powered baby could do the trick.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 27, 2008, 03:07:17 PM
yeah, its not that nobody likes the origin story, its just Superman is still oversaturated to have his origin story shown, even returns had excerpts from the origin story.
Superman should fight robots, that would be kickass. Thousands of weak robots and one super robot
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 27, 2008, 03:32:22 PM
Or zombies.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Maverick on August 27, 2008, 05:40:39 PM
yeah, its not that nobody likes the origin story, its just Superman is still oversaturated to have his origin story shown, even returns had excerpts from the origin story.
Don't mind Ian, he likes to misinterpret what people are actually saying in order to validate sly allusions to his superior tastes and thinking power.
Quote
Superman should fight robots, that would be kickass. Thousands of weak robots and one super robot
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 27, 2008, 09:09:20 PM
its not that theres a hate for it, its just that every single time they reintroduce superman there are bits of the origin story. I watched superman the movie again like the other day and the origin is awesome. Small Ville the series is like Superman's origin extended over 8 seasons. Maybe this next movie should leave it out, but on the other hand if its a trilogy maybe they can have it on part 2 or 3.
For instance in Dark Night joker didn't have an origin story, they left it out, but it worked out for the better. Batman Begins however was the best origin story in its series. Iron Man wasn't a popular enough character at the time, so they needed one. The new hulk rebooted, but they left out the origin story...if they had left it in it would have been too similar to the last movie..which sucked. Spiderman had an origin story, but Spiderman had never recieved the full treatment. Superman has had 4 tv shows, 3-or 4 cartoons, like 6 to 8 movies. Two of the tv shows were exclusively his early years. I liked Lois and Clark, but it was easy to forget that it was about Superman. I never watched Small ville because it was never lined up with my schedule, but getting it on DVD sounds appealing.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on August 27, 2008, 09:45:36 PM
To be fair, the Joker doesn't have a REAL origin story. Yeah, there's the whole "Red Hood" thing, but that's not 100% cannon. The best part about that Joker was how it played on the fact that the comic Joker doesn't have a real origin story. He changed the story of how he got his scars around, and so too does comic Joker make up his origins to suit his needs at the time.
Also, Batman Begins worked as an origin story because it wasn't rushed in to get to the action, thusly ruining it. It integrated the action right on in there.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Plugabugz on August 28, 2008, 08:11:02 AM
If they don't attempt to make superman himself look like a walking orgasm again then we will be all the better for it.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Ian Sane on August 28, 2008, 12:03:02 PM
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I was only teasing...
Sorry. Everything's easy to misinterpret on the internet, right? :)
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Adrock on August 28, 2008, 06:48:34 PM
There's nothing inherently wrong with the origin story. Rather, the problem, in most cases, is that, more often than not, it doesn't need to be told, especially in a movie when you have, on most occassions, 90 to 110 minutes to tell a complete story. I felt it worked best in Batman Begins. In every other comic book movie, it seems like evil rises conveniently after the hero gains his powers or becomes the hero. Evil exists only because the hero, who needs an external antagonist to have a purpose, exists. However, in Batman Begins, villainy creates Batman. There's a history to this world; evil existed before the hero, not because of him. Gotham's decadence ultimately leads to Bruce Wayne's path to becoming Batman.
In The Dark Knight, do we need the Joker's origin? The answer is simply no. It didn't make a damn difference because audiences are told what they need to know and nothing more: The Joker is crazy and he's f*cking up Gotham. It might make an interesting story, but ultimately it's extraneous. The current Batman series is the only one with a justifiable origin story because it's the only one that needed to be told in order for the story to work rather than simply being extended exposition.
Superman Returns almost had it right but Bryan Singer just couldn't resist the urge to include all those pointless scenes of Clark Kent discovering his powers. It poses the question, "Does the world need Superman?" but never fully realized the potential that a question like that can offer. Metropolis seemed perfectly fine without Superman, then he returns and conveniently here comes Lex Luthor's evil plot.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: AV on August 28, 2008, 09:02:44 PM
Bryan Singer isn't a fool, I still think WB should give him a second shot he will see the criticism and make a better movie. After man of steel if it doesn't work out than whatever.
If they are going to cast a new Superman I would 100% favor Tom Welling from smallville, let that show finish and introduce him as the new superman let him bulk up, use that same Lois but they could hire somebody new I don't care. It's not a "smallville" movie, but you can just use the characters in that show that KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
The Lex in Smallville is FREAKEN AMAZING. Michael Rosenbaum has proven himself the best "Modern Lex".
I would rather not have a origin story, but Metallo would be great if not parasite as villains. If they don't want to keep Bryan Singer I would hire Bruce Timm he has done some amazing animated movies and tv shows and knows the characters well and would be a nice introduction to real movies.
So for me a reboot Superman I would want this.
Superman/Clark: Tom Welling Lex: Michael Rosenbaum Director: Bruce Timm
I think that could work very well.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 29, 2008, 12:27:18 AM
What's Dean Cain doing now-a-days? He made a good Superman...
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on August 29, 2008, 12:34:21 AM
wasn't he hosting Ripleys Believe it or not tv show?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 29, 2008, 06:36:17 PM
dean caine played that Peterson guy in a tv movie, you know the guy who killed his pregnant wife or whatever
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: decoyman on September 01, 2008, 04:09:33 PM
"Meh" on Tom Welling. He looks like Superman, but has always appeared to me to be a pretty mediocre actor. Brandon Routh did a fine job, what, people don't like him?
P.S. - But I DO agree on Michael Rosenbaum being a totally awesome Lex.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on September 01, 2008, 04:19:58 PM
they shouldnt make a new superman movie until the technology exist to bring christopher reeves back from the dead, and you know... cure his paralysis
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: oohhboy on September 02, 2008, 08:37:23 AM
But a Zombie Superman would be EVIL.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Plugabugz on September 02, 2008, 09:23:59 AM
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on September 02, 2008, 04:00:34 PM
"In the original Siegel and Shuster stories, Superman's personality is rough and aggressive. The character was seen stepping in to stop wife beaters, profiteers, a lynch mob and gangsters, with rather rough edges and a looser moral code than audiences may be used to today.[29] Later writers have softened the character, and instilled a sense of idealism and moral code of conduct. Although not as cold-blooded as the early Batman, the Superman featured in the comics of the 1930s is unconcerned about the harm his strength may cause, tossing villainous characters in such a manner that fatalities would presumably occur, although these were seldom shown explicitly on the page. This came to an end late in 1940, when new editor Whitney Ellsworth instituted a code of conduct for his characters to follow, banning Superman from ever killing.[64]" from wikipedia
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: that Baby guy on September 04, 2008, 11:43:53 AM
Personally, I'd rather see a change in how the Superman movies are made. While you all use the word "Dark," I don't see a transition as needing to be dark, per say. Right now, we've got a happy-go-lucky Superman thing going on. Superman flies into the everyday world, and yeah, there's a villain, and yeah, his/Clark Kent's life might not be perfect, but all-in-all, the people are superficial caricatures of human kind. It's campy. The movies are far too campy. They get too bent on making Clark Kent a "mild-mannered" reporter, and it's ridiculous, because these characters have evolved. Kent is a hot-shot reporter who doesn't have the fame of Lois Lane, but he's almost anything but mild-mannered now.
Luthor is much more than an evil corporate villain. He's a slick business man, but not inherently evil. He sees himself as all that's good of mankind, the pinnacle of evolution. All of a sudden, this...alien...comes in and steals that away from him. He thinks that if Superman were to get out of the way, he could cure cancer, that's his problem. He doesn't believe he's evil, he thinks he's working to stop Superman for the good of the world.
Then you've got Lois. They need to jump past the point where she doesn't know that Clark Kent and Superman are one of the same. Get to the point where he's courting her, or even when they're married. The point that she's at now is intolerable, really. Super Baby needs the boot, too, for a long time, at least.
Superman isn't dark. No, Superman doesn't walk the line of hero and villain, he doesn't beat confessions out of people, and he doesn't question his morals, ever. However, Superman can be serious, rather than the camp we've seen. Superman is about sacrifice. Here we have a man with "Super" powers, right? He doesn't have to be Superman, he doesn't have to save the world, he doesn't need to. He's got a loving family, a great job, and a romantic interest, but he does do it, anyways. He's Superman because he wants to save people, but it costs him. It costs him the best stories, it costs him time with Lois, it makes him enemies, and the one tricky part is if the villains exist solely because he does. They need to express that better. Why does Superman fight? Why does he save the day? Why does he sacrifice a normal life, children, his job, and everything to fight people and enemies that probably wouldn't be there if he weren't? That's the inner turmoil we need to see in a Superman movie, really, and I know it's shown a little bit, but not really. It's been pondered, that's all, never truly considered.
Also, we need a real villain, Brainiac or Metallo are my picks, but there's a few others that could work to begin. Honestly, I prefer Brainiac, someone that would have been around regardless of Superman, to show why he is needed.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Stogi on September 04, 2008, 12:06:40 PM
Sounds too much like Spiderman and look how those movies turned out.
Awful.
Except for the first one. (William Defoe is the ****)
And Spiderman is a WAY better superhero than Superman.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: that Baby guy on September 04, 2008, 12:17:20 PM
The Spiderman movies did suck, but Spiderman wasn't ever really about personal sacrifice, it was about a kid finding his place in the world. Spiderman movies involved too much angst and bitterness without much reason aside from "Peter Parker felt like it." You get so much of that mixed into the movie. The Spiderman movies are trying to appeal to a younger audience, rather than everyone, and so they've artificially inserted teenage angst into the mix to try to reach them. This isn't the same thing. Superman isn't going to throw a tantrum because he has to protect people as Superman, nor is he going to get a big head. It's just not the same as the Spiderman movies, with their Parker character. Besides, in my book, Superman Returns was worse than the Spiderman movies, even!
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Stogi on September 04, 2008, 01:04:16 PM
Oh definitely. That movie sucked.
In the comics, Peter Parker is the man though. It's a damn shame.......
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: AV on September 04, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
"In the original Siegel and Shuster stories, Superman's personality is rough and aggressive. The character was seen stepping in to stop wife beaters, profiteers, a lynch mob and gangsters, with rather rough edges and a looser moral code than audiences may be used to today.[29] Later writers have softened the character, and instilled a sense of idealism and moral code of conduct. Although not as cold-blooded as the early Batman, the Superman featured in the comics of the 1930s is unconcerned about the harm his strength may cause, tossing villainous characters in such a manner that fatalities would presumably occur, although these were seldom shown explicitly on the page. This came to an end late in 1940, when new editor Whitney Ellsworth instituted a code of conduct for his characters to follow, banning Superman from ever killing.[64]" from wikipedia
Well the thing is the "modern superman" has been around for 60 or so years, that very early superman is long forgotten. So that wouldn't fit.
If they insist in being dark this is would be a great way to go, but damn it would be edgy.
This is a bit off the movie topic but how does "mild-manner" translate into "absolute doofus who can't hardly tie his shoes"?
Exactly! Exactly. GP is always right, this proves it. Except sometimes she's wrong.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Maverick on September 05, 2008, 01:47:52 AM
Since when did the Spider-Man movies suck? The first two were arguably the best superhero movies around until Iron Man and Dark Knight. I understand the hatred for 3 (although I still like it OKAY, I kind of feel about it like I do X-3 to X-men 1/2.).
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: wandering on September 05, 2008, 02:31:53 AM
boy that was one hell of a story. I loved how they squeezed Green lantern corp and Batman into that story. Batman in that story was almost like V for Vendetta.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 05, 2008, 06:58:00 PM
This is a bit off the movie topic but how does "mild-manner" translate into "absolute doofus who can't hardly tie his shoes"?
Exactly! Exactly. GP is always right, this proves it. Except sometimes she's wrong.
I personally thought of it like George Reeves's portrayal or Dean Cain's where Clark is mild-mannered in that he isn't really outspoken or outgoing but more shy, though he still is a respected reporter. The Christopher Reeve portrayal was way too campy and it was hard to imagine him being the least bit believable as a reporter. I understand they did that to really separate Superman from Clark but it was not a realistic separation, and seems to be quite different from the comics.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 05, 2008, 07:19:39 PM
Yeah the glasses totally hide him.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 05, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
boy that was one hell of a story. I loved how they squeezed Green lantern corp and Batman into that story. Batman in that story was almost like V for Vendetta.
The crap movie version, yeah. But Batman is infinitely cooler.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: AV on September 06, 2008, 01:54:11 AM
boy that was one hell of a story. I loved how they squeezed Green lantern corp and Batman into that story. Batman in that story was almost like V for Vendetta.
The crap movie version, yeah. But Batman is infinitely cooler.
i liked the movie version of V. I never read the book so I don't know any better but still very bad ass. The ending to that movie is superb. -El
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 06, 2008, 02:03:57 AM
The ending is crap. At least the events of the book are plausible. The movie events are nonsensical at times. The book is also more gritty (I guess) and much more compelling. The movie is just, "BOO! Government BAD!" While, the book actually has some depth to it.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on September 06, 2008, 03:58:43 AM
glasses being something that masks people isnt totally off
Total Nerd (http://theperm.tetrametrics.com/Images/avatars/PGCPERM.jpg) Has a good DSL Service (http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/theultimateperm/complimented.jpg)
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on September 06, 2008, 04:10:32 PM
you'd still look like a total nerd if you still had the devils curly hair
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on September 06, 2008, 09:05:13 PM
its always easycure
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 06, 2008, 09:05:58 PM
The glasses make your hair look longer.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Maverick on September 07, 2008, 02:41:19 AM
The GameCube shirt sure wasn't helping your street-cred either.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on September 07, 2008, 04:46:56 PM
lol in the one on the bottom im wearing a mario shirt http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21Irt5ENQZL._SL160_AA160_.jpg same image
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Maverick on September 07, 2008, 06:56:45 PM
I bet the Mario duds help with the ladies. They tend to have a thing for short, fat plumbers with big mustaches.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on September 07, 2008, 07:13:06 PM
and also pizza boys and cablemen
at least thats how it goes in the movies i've seen
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Stogi on September 07, 2008, 09:05:09 PM
That one almost flew by me.
You made me realize that I should be killing a kitten right now!
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on September 07, 2008, 10:45:37 PM
run-on jokes are the wave of the future
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on September 07, 2008, 11:05:01 PM
choking the kitten?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on September 08, 2008, 06:26:44 AM
come on now. lets talk about superman
and his nice buns
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 08, 2008, 04:04:42 PM
Does Superman kill kittens?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Maverick on September 08, 2008, 07:04:16 PM
At least with heat vision he doesn't have to use microwaves.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: bustin98 on September 08, 2008, 08:04:43 PM
Superman goes so fast he kills a hundred kittens and blows several large holes through the roof before he's done.
About the glasses thing: when John Byrne did the re-tooling of the Superman origin, there was an explaination that Supe's always vibrated his face so all images of him were blurry. And Clark never stood straight up with his shoulders back.
Hey, its Superman. If anyone could vibrate their face all the time, its gotta be him.
Hmm, I wonder if Lois ever sat on his face...
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on September 08, 2008, 08:14:57 PM
Superman goes so fast he kills a hundred kittens and blows several large holes through the roof before he's done.
About the glasses thing: when John Byrne did the re-tooling of the Superman origin, there was an explaination that Supe's always vibrated his face so all images of him were blurry. And Clark never stood straight up with his shoulders back.
Hey, its Superman. If anyone could vibrate their face all the time, its gotta be him.
Hmm, I wonder if Lois ever sat on his face...
OMFG<3
i was thinking the same thing when you first mentioned it
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 08, 2008, 09:00:11 PM
I would have to think so. He could fly with her sitting there.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on September 09, 2008, 04:16:31 PM
remember the old cartoon used to talk up superman, they could take that to a new art on the movie
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 09, 2008, 04:52:51 PM
The black and white one, you mean?
"We will not be intimidated by criminal threats!!"
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on September 09, 2008, 08:17:47 PM
he's faster then a speeding bulltet, can outrun a locamotive, can leop of several building in a single bound, can have 400 babies
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ShyGuy on September 10, 2008, 11:23:21 AM
I killed a kitten once. Remind me to tell you the story sometime.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on September 10, 2008, 11:44:02 AM
I killed a kitten once. Remind me to tell you the story sometime.
we know all about it (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=26115.0)
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 10, 2008, 05:48:40 PM
I just thought about this. Who cleaned the microwave after that? Do they still use it? Is there a smell?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on September 10, 2008, 07:24:01 PM
i'm sure they would of thrown it out
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 10, 2008, 10:10:14 PM
I dunno. Those can be expensive and part of a set with the oven and match the fridge. But then, do you really wanna keep the radiation box that killed fluffy?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: EasyCure on September 10, 2008, 10:28:44 PM
probably not, hence why i figured they'd throw it out.
hell if it happened to me i wouldnt wanna cook anything for awhile, i'd be to mortified. take out for months
resisting....chinese take-out joke....too...easy!
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on September 11, 2008, 12:16:52 AM
That could make an awesome funhouse thread. . .
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on November 13, 2008, 09:50:25 PM
wal-mart has all sorts of crazy dvd deals,
i got all 4 Chris Reeves Superman movies for only 10 bucks
they have two different sets of nightmare on elm street that I'm eying (shat thats how you spell eying, frickin wierd)
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 18, 2009, 02:55:44 PM
Well looks like the Siegel estates won the rights to supermans backstory...
but recently, i bought the Fleischer Superman cartoon episodes from wal-mart for a dollar and back in the day he had a totally different backstory..he still came from Krypton, but he was raised by the Government and not the Kents...
the kents backstory i dont think came till the 70s. Allthough i'd rather him be raised by the government because thats way more interesting.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Halbred on August 18, 2009, 05:45:08 PM
I thought Superman Returns was an EPIC FAIL. It should've been called "Superman Lifts." Kate Bosworth (eat a goddamn burger, girl!) is the worst Lois Lane ever. Also, since the movie is supposed to come after Superman 2, how did Lois have any memory of her previous dealings with Superman? Even better, as Kevin Smith pointed out, after she figured out that Supes fathered her kid, why wasn't she all like "When did you rape me, Superman?"
EPIC FAIL on so many levels.
But Superman fails in general. He's an alien who looks exactly like a human--he even has red blood. He can fly, use heat and freeze beams, has super strength, can survive in the vacuum of space, apparently doesn't need to breath, has X-ray vision, and regenerates from the power of the sun. He's a goddamn plant.
His weakness is Kryptonite, which every villain in the series has warehouses full of. Luthor stabbed Superman in the chest with a Kryptonite crystal in Returns, but SUPERMAN DIDN'T DIE.
I just don't think Superman is relevant anymore. By the same token, they're gonna have a hard time making anybody give a crap about Wonder Woman too.*
*Brief aside: Megan Fox is, I guess, in the running for the role. This would be awful. I can't picture a worse Diana Prince. Aside from being brunette, Fox is the wrong body type to be Wonder Woman. The character is chesty, hippy, and strong. Megan Fox is a beanpole with a push-up bra and no upper body strength to speak of. She's also WAY too young. My vote would be Michelle Ryan (from the recent "Bionic Woman" show) who exemplifies all of Woman Woman's physical features and is also British.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: that Baby guy on August 18, 2009, 08:13:15 PM
Superman has had decent enemies and difficult times before, Halbred. Additionally, freeze breath is an ability he rarely uses in the comics, but whomever writes scripts for movies seems to just love it.
Superman has two types of enemies that could make for a good movie. The first is the type that goes after people in Clark Kent's life, or takes control of other super heroes. Manchester Black was a psychic who read Superman's mind to find out his secret identity as Clark Kent. From there, he sent every run-of-the-mill, two bit villain after anyone who ever helped Clark Kent... even his dentist. His goal? To make Superman kill, to drive him to the edge and make him take a life. To me, it was one of the best Superman arcs.
Then, there's Brainiac: A highly intelligent alien who can slip a device on top of anyone's head and then gain complete control over that person. Brainiac has had a complicated story in the comics, but if the movies made his appearance a one-time event and used the Panic in the Sky storyline... (maybe split it into two movies?) You'd have an epic DC tale that consisted of several DC heroes in a story where they're all but invincible.
The last villain that could create an interesting movie, I think, is Metallo, the guy who absorbs and uses machines and metal to consistently power himself up. He wouldn't be a problem for Superman, except for two things: Collateral damage and his Kryptonite heart. I dislike Superman's Kryptonite weakness in the movies, especially after Superman returns, where it basically didn't matter, but it certainly does help Metallo fight him.
Another potential villain is the Parasite, but that seems like it would start more along the lines as a mystery/horror movie, then turn into a bright cheerful Superman movie... so maybe that could be saved for a Superman/Batman crossover.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 18, 2009, 08:43:02 PM
The next Superman movie will probably feature Lex Luthor teaming up with Toyman or some crap.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 18, 2009, 08:50:30 PM
My guess is that after Superman realizes his last movie may ruin his hollywood career, he decides to fly around the world so fast that he rewinds time so he can pretend the last movie never happened. But things don't go exactly as planned. Now, not only did he rewind time, but he is constantly trying to take his place on the set to play his part only to realize that in this time period, there is already a Superman and he wants to play his own part. Now Superman must battle Superman to see who is the better Superman for the part.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Khushrenada on August 18, 2009, 10:34:37 PM
I just don't think Superman is relevant anymore. By the same token, they're gonna have a hard time making anybody give a crap about Wonder Woman too.*
In a post about epic fails, you just made your own. It's interesting. For the most part, I've always been a Batman guy. But lately, I'm findin Superman to be my hero of choice. Maybe that is because lately, there have been a lot of good Superman stories put out there. Even now, with Blackest Night going, I'm looking forward to the Superman titles more, especially World of New Krypton. If you haven't been following along at home lately, let me bring you up to speed. Superman is living alongside 100,000 other Kryptonians and has been assigned into the military working under General Zod. Now, you may think that having him surrounded by 100,000 Kryptonians would make Superman even less relevant but I think it's made him more Super than he has been in along time. More inspiring as well. I wish the series could continue longer instead of the 12 issue run it is supposed to have. But I look forward to each new installment each month.
Besides what's happening right now, you can find a lot of other great Superman stories. Recently with Geoff Johns writing, there have been some great stories, Last Son, Superman and The Legion of Superheroes, and Braniac. As well, Grant Morrison recently finished a 12 issue story called All-Star Superman which received a ton of praise. Superman was a large part of Final Crisis. There is a really great Superman story called Red Son which I've recommended on these forums before in which the story is told of what might have happened had Superman landed in Communist Russia instead of the U.S.A.
Finally, I wish the movies would take more direction from the Superman Animated Series. That was my big introduction to all things Superman, and even now, those cartoons are quite well done. Frankly, if it was up to me I know exactly the direction I'd take for the movies.
Instead of Luthor being the goofy crazed mad scientist they keep projecting him to be, I'd make him into the powerful business man that he is in the Animated Series. Head of Lexcorp and the man who believes Superman is harming humanity's growth. I'd follow the story from the Animated Series entitled "The Way of All Flesh" which shows the origin of Metallo. Since Warner Bros. would like the movie darker, that could be done with the villains transformation. I'd call the movie The Man of Steel which is a play on Superman's nickname and Metallo as well. That should go over well since it follows the Batman example when they called the next movie, The Dark Knight. From there, I could delve into just what that nickname means for Superman. I'd also take some scenes from the pilot episode in which the man who became Metallo was actually working with Lex until Superman captured him. That way, you establish a bit of history between him and Superman and show off the new status quo Lex Luthor. With Metallo losing all his human senses, you can get the darkness that Warner Bros. craves for Superman. You do it through the villains. But that is a just a flight of fancy I have.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Halbred on August 18, 2009, 10:49:51 PM
When I said "not relevant anymore," I meant to a modern average movie-goer audience.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: that Baby guy on August 18, 2009, 11:06:52 PM
And Khush showed a way he could become relevant.... Ehhh? Ehhh?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: bustin98 on August 18, 2009, 11:09:27 PM
Whats not relevant is the movie industry's vision of Superman. The tighter they remain to the core story, the better the movie will be.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 19, 2009, 12:26:25 AM
Superman can only be hurt by Kryptonite and Doomsday, apparently, so that makes him pretty boring if you ask me.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Khushrenada on August 19, 2009, 12:32:05 AM
When I said "not relevant anymore," I meant to a modern average movie-goer audience.
Oh, of course. Because when I look through your original post, I can totally tell that you were talking about the modern average movie-goer not relating to Superman as opposed to what I thought was your original intent of him not being relevant at all since you listed a number of faults you think the character has.
Alright. Rather snarky, I know. But my point is not to come here and keep attacking you. I just think you are trying to backpedal a little and have made my point on that.
I do, however, agree with you on a few points. #1 being that I don't see how Wonder Woman can be made relevant without changing a lot about the character. I know Wonder Woman is supposed to be equal with Superman and Batman and they are considered the big 3 but I just do not have much interet in her. I hate the whole Greek Mythology thing. It just doesn't fit in anywhere in the DC Universe itself. What about all the other Mythological gods like the Roman gods or Thor and Odin or Babylonian gods? Why do only the Greek gods exist and keep exherting power? Is it really that exciting to see Wonder Woman battle mythological creatures or team up with Hercules? Not really. It worked with Xena or shows like that since it was set in those times. But when you put this setting into a modern world, it just clashes horribly and raises too many questions. She flies an invisible jet!? Where does that fit into the whole Greek setting? What's with the lasso? I can think of many greater Greek weapons than a lasso. She can reflect bullets off her bracelets. How does that work? Is there an incredibly strong magnetic pull that brings the bullets to them so they can deflect off them? Is she able to move her arms that fast and stop them? If that's the case, why can't she run like the flash or use her speedy hands for other things? The contradictions are too many. I don't like thinking about Wonder Woman much.
But when I have, I've often wondered if there is a way to somehow re-invent the character. A way to reconcile all these contradictions together. Is there a way to move Wonder Woman away from this Greek Mythology and Magic and yet still retain some of that influence? What kind of an origin should she have? I draw a blank everytime. Pretty much every other woman in the DC Universe is more interesting and more thought out than Wonder Woman. I wish one of them would take her place.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 19, 2009, 12:34:08 AM
Superman can only be hurt by Kryptonite and Doomsday, apparently, so that makes him pretty boring if you ask me.
Thank goodness we didn't. Hello red sun. Hello magic. (Ok. I shouldn't mention that weakness. It bugs me) Hello other Kryptonians. And that's just some of the ways to hurt him physically. There's still mental, emotional and psychological ways to harm him.
But, like you, I prefer my heros to get injured a lot so that they are more interesting. Unless he is getting the snot beaten out of him or is just barely clinging to life each adventure, there is really no fun to be had following his exploits.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on August 19, 2009, 01:05:50 AM
Cyborg Superman punches pretty hard.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on August 19, 2009, 01:28:52 AM
Also, Khush, I see what you're saying about Wonder Woman. I feel the same way about the X-Men. They're great until you consider that they exist in a world with 1000s of other non-mutant metahumans. I still love the series, but it's just not fitting right. Especially now with Dark Reign. Any mutant with powers could easily chalk them up to a lab accident and register with the government. I doubt anyone other than Osborn would look in to it or even care. Hell, it worked for the freak submariner!
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Khushrenada on August 19, 2009, 01:37:41 AM
Marvel comics. My only weakness. Oh well. At least, you get what I'm saying about WW.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: nickmitch on August 19, 2009, 02:11:41 AM
Marvel comics. My only weakness. Oh well. At least, you get what I'm saying about WW.
Yeah, the best you can say about it is that they choose not to interfere with the world at large, much like the new gods (until Final Crisis). Then you have all of the magic users, characters returning from the dead, heroes that ARE dead and now you have this big debate about religion in comics. On the Marvel hand, you have Hercules (and I guess Aries) as Avengers and readers (mostly me) too lazy/uninterested to look in to their origins.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 19, 2009, 03:04:32 AM
do the same people who like the dragon ball z cartoons disparage superman? They have the same plotline. I would make superman a stronger story by making him not so insanely powerful, over time building up his power. What were the original aspects of Superman? Originally he couldn't fly..he could just jump really high over buildings, he was faster than a speeding bullet(but not so fast he could turn back time like Cher wishes she could do), more powerful than a locomotive. Bam make that his only powers. What is a Super Man? Superman should seem like a powerful ant in a big world. Also Superman should take place in the Era of his inception...not modern times
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Halbred on August 20, 2009, 07:30:18 PM
Wonde Woman's been re-invented a hundred times before. She has more reboots than almost any other DC hero(ine). At one point she didn't have ANY super powers, wasn't from Atlantis, and was just really good at martial arts.
But we definately need a good superheroine movie. Wonder Woman would fit the bill great--conceptually, she's my favorite female superhero (Catwoman is a close second: you can do a lot with that character).*
*Halle Berry movie doesn't count. Let's pretend it doesn't exist.
Anyway, Wonder Woman could be something as simple as a female Iron Man: a female scientist discovers a strength serum and/or electromagnetic devicecs that repell bullets (like the Dark Knight anime). They could even go with a Bionic Woman angle. The invisible jet idea is just plain stupid--always has been--and if they want her to fly, I'd prefer a practical method. Really, I'd just get rid of the flying.
I'm not familiar enough with Wonder Woman's rogue's gallery to suggest particularly relevant villains. She could battle military experiment soldiers with codenames: Medusa or Cheetah, each with different "powers" borne from serum experiments.
I'd like Donna Troy in there too, somehow, but in a "hint hint" role, like having James Rhodes in Iron Man. In the comics, she's Diana's sister, but in this imaginary movie, she could be a lab technician or a fellow "successful" experiment or something.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 21, 2009, 02:56:51 AM
its really hard to make wonderwoman or superman without making them lame. That being said i think it can be done. In some ways i just hate origin stories...i don't know why they are so important. I can imagine wonderwoman showing up and just kicking ass and doing asskicking things. I don't think the suit is too important.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ShyGuy on August 21, 2009, 05:34:31 AM
Yeah, usually the first movie of a super hero franchise has to be wasted on an origin story. Often times this isn't very well done.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 21, 2009, 11:38:25 AM
Anyway, Wonder Woman could be something as simple as a female Iron Man: a female scientist discovers a strength serum and/or electromagnetic devicecs that repell bullets (like the Dark Knight anime). They could even go with a Bionic Woman angle.
Dear lord, please no. Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with the Greek Mythos angle? I mean, Hercules and Xena were mega-popular...
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: that Baby guy on August 21, 2009, 11:48:14 AM
Well, for what it's worth, origin stories can be overrated. Why not just have the hero suddenly be there? The people don't know where he or she came from, and directors and writers can all just tell the studio that they're "saving the origin for a sequel." WB and Sony would just eat that type of talk right up.
What's more important is personality and character, which, oddly enough doesn't get developed when those movies go into a massive origin story mode.
So why not just let Wonder Woman be Wonder Woman, and not worry about where she came from, maybe a few hints here or there, but nothing major. If the movie does well enough, talk a little about it in the second one. If that does well enough, talk a little more about it in the third, but don't spend chunks of any of the movies devoted to it.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Khushrenada on August 21, 2009, 06:17:30 PM
Anyway, Wonder Woman could be something as simple as a female Iron Man: a female scientist discovers a strength serum and/or electromagnetic devicecs that repell bullets (like the Dark Knight anime). They could even go with a Bionic Woman angle.
Dear lord, please no. Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with the Greek Mythos angle? I mean, Hercules and Xena were mega-popular...
Yes, but as I said in my post, those were sent in ancient Greek times and not modern times.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 22, 2009, 01:01:02 AM
What's wrong with the idea of an island of Greek myths that has hidden itself away from mankind for years?
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 22, 2009, 02:32:30 AM
that origin worked pretty well in Hancock. A passing mention i believe can beat out a whole crappy origin. Im sorry but comic book origins are too goofy for me. As much as I like comic books...i liked Batman Begins because batman doesn't have super powers. Joker's Origin..**** it...its better to wonder where this crazy motherfucker came from. He mentions it, but he's lying. i was reading Ebert's Movie review book and it was funny because he took it as face value. His ratings on all the Batman movies are all pretty accurate actually. I read a 1996 or so Ebert review book that had batman and batman returns...he was pretty straight forward....alot of flash and style but not much characterization.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Khushrenada on August 22, 2009, 03:59:15 AM
What's wrong with the idea of an island of Greek myths that has hidden itself away from mankind for years?
As I said before, it is the fact that the Greek Gods are still around as well. But despite the power they have to make Wonder Woman and help the Amazons, they are localized to this single isle. Why just the Greek gods? What about the other mythological gods? Why can they not exhert influence elsewhere? Then we get back to the other things like her invisible jet. What gift of the gods is that? It is Greek in what way?
I don't have a problem with a beautiful Greek island being hidden away all this time. There's something you can keep as part of her personality and origin. But there are more things than just that which bug me. Like the fact that it is all women so how do they reproduce? They don't. But they are immortal. And what do they do with that immortality? Live on an island forever! Alrighty. But finally, they decided to create a baby and then later send their new offspring out to represent their society. Which makes perfect sense since they have been around for a 1,000 years but Wonder Woman has only been around, what, 50 years? She's definitely going to make the best representative for them and offer so much knowledge on their ways and customs.
It's like reaching into a barrel of sticky notes. There are so many problems and illogical things with Wonder Woman. I could keep reaching in and pulling out a new reason everytime. When you realize the amount of problems, the mind grows uninterested in delving into them all.
However, getting back to Superman, it was a good week for Superman stories. Superman annual was an awesome look into the planet Daxam's history which is great since it has been growing in importance lately. Blackest Night Superman was also very good. I love the cover on that issue. And there's nothing like a good Superman VS evil Superman battle, right? And Supergirl helped ramp things up for the climax of the Codename: Patriot arc for next week. I can't wait to see how that ends. Even knowing the solicits and previews for the upcoming months, I'm still not sure how things are going to shake down. Great stuff.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 22, 2009, 09:12:04 AM
The Gods may have chosen to withdraw from society. I can accept that. As for the invisible jet, I'm fine with getting rid if it, but I think I'm remembering a different origin story than you.
The one I remember, pilot Steve Trevor crash-lands his jet on WW's hidden island (Pure, dumb chance? Did they make it visible for him?) The inhabitants of the island fix his jet - and they fix it good, mixing man's engineering with the magic of the Gods - thus, invisible jet. But, again, get rid if it.
Anywhoo, WW gets smitten with Steve and, basically, throws a tantrum so that she can escort him back to Man's world. (He's sick and needs help). It's decided that, since WW has never actually been to Man's world, she can go, partially as a learning experience for herself, partially to see if man is ready to become more peaceful and interact with the greek Gods once more.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 22, 2009, 01:34:39 PM
The Gods may have chosen to withdraw from society. I can accept that. As for the invisible jet, I'm fine with getting rid if it, but I think I'm remembering a different origin story than you.
The one I remember, pilot Steve Trevor crash-lands his jet on WW's hidden island (Pure, dumb chance? Did they make it visible for him?) The inhabitants of the island fix his jet - and they fix it good, mixing man's engineering with the magic of the Gods - thus, invisible jet. But, again, get rid if it.
Anywhoo, WW gets smitten with Steve and, basically, throws a tantrum so that she can escort him back to Man's world. (He's sick and needs help). It's decided that, since WW has never actually been to Man's world, she can go, partially as a learning experience for herself, partially to see if man is ready to become more peaceful and interact with the greek Gods once more.
Isn't that more or less the story line for that new WW movie that DC Comics just released not so long ago? minus the invisible jet made from Steve's wrecked Jet.
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: UncleBob on August 22, 2009, 11:55:46 PM
Dunno - didn't see it. But I would believe it's possible, since it's what I remember her origin story being. :)
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 23, 2009, 02:18:59 AM
Have her have powers, and not know why and then later find out she comes from a long line of greek super powered beings that fooled everyone into thinking they were gods in the BCs
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: ThePerm on August 24, 2009, 02:37:46 PM
superman could always fight Zod again
Title: Re: Superman Reboot
Post by: Halbred on August 24, 2009, 02:46:05 PM
