Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 18, 2008, 09:12:25 PM
I recently signed up for GameFly through their Xbox Live promotion. I got a full month of service for $5.95 (one game at a time). They also threw in 400 Microsoft points (worth $5), although that takes a few weeks to be deposited. It seemed like a great way to catch up on a few games for my new Xbox 360. This isn't the first time I've tried GameFly, actually. I took a two-week trial a few years ago to test out the service, which was new at the time.
My experience back then was rather poor – I only got to play one game in those two weeks because the total turnaround time was ten days. That means that it took ten days total from the time I mailed a game back to the time I got my next one. In a way, the long wait was forgivable back then. GameFly had only a single distribution center, way out in California, and I was living in semi-rural Alabama. I concluded that it was a cool service if you lived out West but wasn't worthwhile for me.
Since then, I have moved a thousand miles westward, and GameFly has added three new distribution centers around the country. I live roughly equidistant from the ones in California and Texas, so I figured it was time to give the company another shot at my business. Unfortunately, the service hasn't improved much in the past five years. Last Monday, I returned my first game, Gears of War, and began eagerly awaiting the next one on my queue, Indigo Prophecy. I got notice of the exchange on Friday and received the new game today, Monday. So the turnaround time has improved from ten days to only seven. This is still totally inadequate considering that I'm paying by the month.
For comparison, let's examine my service from Netflix last week. I mailed in a movie on Monday, the same day that I returned Gears of War. I became slightly alarmed on Tuesday when Netflix didn't send me a notification that they'd received the disc. By Wednesday, their website acknowledged widespread shipping problems due to a massive computer error. By Friday, they fixed the problem and shipped out my delayed disc, which I received on Saturday. Netflix was so embarrassed by last week's delays that they are issuing a 15% credit on my next bill. In summary, Netflix had a corporate disaster and still replaced my disc two days faster than GameFly's regular service could.
Is this a fair comparison? Yes, absolutely. GameFly is a blatant imitation of Netflix, sharing exactly the same business model and even similar websites. The main difference is that Netflix has eighteen distribution centers, compared to GameFly's four. I recognize that Netflix is an older, more established, and more successful company, but in my opinion, GameFly lacks the minimal infrastructure necessary to provide efficient service to anyone living outside Los Angeles, Tampa, Pittsburgh, or Austin. In fact, former staff member Karl Castaneda told me that he couldn't get timely GameFly service even when he lived in Tampa, so I don't think you can put much blame on the U.S. Postal Service.
The only way I can see to get consistent value out of GameFly is to use their two-game plan and stagger them so that you always have one game at home and one in the mail. But then you're really paying the two-game rate to have one game at a time, aren't you? A more reasonable plan from the consumer's point of view would be a plan that charges you per game rental instead of a monthly fee. It won't let you get the games any faster, but at least you wouldn't be paying for rental time when games are in the mail or churning through the warehouses. Or best of all, GameFly could spend a lot more capital for additional distribution centers and improve overall efficiency of the process, so their customers can receive the service they expected in the first place. As things stand now, I can't justify paying $15.95 next month to rent a couple of games at the most. Even my local video stores have better prices than that.
Post by: Morari on August 18, 2008, 09:03:24 PM
Post by: Smakian on August 18, 2008, 10:24:36 PM
Post by: Svevan on August 18, 2008, 11:40:19 PM
Netflix hasn't always been as good as it is now - five years ago, when I first used the service, it would take roughly a week (four to six days) of total turnaround time. Netflix's size and efficiency has increased as its popularity has grown (unless, of course, you rent a ton of movies at high speed and get throttled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix#.22Throttling.22)), and GameFly just doesn't have that kind of audience. It's also important to note that in those five years, Netflix's prices have gone DOWN, not up, so at one time the service was worse AND more expensive. I think GameFly is suffering from growing pains.
It seems to me that GameFly's slower turnaround would serve videogames moreso than movies because of the amount of time it takes to play a game. If you play through a lot of games and don't feel compelled to purchase everything except the best, and use the two-at-a-time plan as you suggest, then you could conceivably use GameFly to replace your normal purchasing habits. With no late fees, the price sounds supremely reasonable.
Please note, however, that I've never used GameFly. I have been a loyal Netflix-er for years, however, and aside from the mainstream-oriented movie selection, I have only seen the service improve. One day I'd like them to include a "NicheFlix" style service that rented multi-region DVDs and older foreign movies. There are plenty of "big-name" directors that have limited or no Netflix representation: John Cassavetes, Todd Haynes, Costa-Gavras, Agnes Varda, Les Blank, et al.
Post by: Morari on August 18, 2008, 11:47:30 PM
NetFlix does have a surprising number of lesser known films. Although this area could always use improvement, the service is hardly limited to just modern, mainstream stuff. If it were, I'd have no use for it. :P
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 18, 2008, 11:49:45 PM
As for Netflix not carrying all those niche directors and films, keep in mind that some of that material isn't available on DVD at all, and in other cases, there is no Region-1 version available. My taste in film isn't as exotic as yours, but it is quite diverse and at times relatively obscure; I've almost never found a desired selection to be unavailable at Netflix, although the availability is occasionally limited.
I should also note that I have never been throttled to my knowledge, but then most of the movies in my queue are at least ten years old. It seems to primarily affect users who load up on brand new DVDs.
Post by: Svevan on August 18, 2008, 11:59:04 PM
Evan, I got that number from Netflix's own website. Where did you find a list of 55?
Associated Press (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_hi_te/netflix_outage), though they use the phrase "shipping center." Perhaps there's a difference between those and a "distribution center?"
As for Netflix not carrying all those niche directors and films, keep in mind that some of that material isn't available on DVD at all, and in other cases, there is no Region-1 version available. My taste in film isn't as exotic as yours, but it is quite diverse and at times relatively obscure; I've almost never found a desired selection to be unavailable at Netflix, although the availability is occasionally limited.
Jonny and Morari: Don't let me understate the great number of obscure films available on Netflix. It is far and away better than renting locally. However, all the directors I listed above in my last post have DVDs available currently in Region 1. Les Blank and Agnes Varda may not be HUGE names, but John Cassavetes is the father of independent cinema, and only in the last month have some of the films he directed (he also was an actor) become available, despite their presence on DVD for years. In the end you guys are right, though. There's plenty to pick from, and I get lost in my giant queue. What would REALLY open up the service is Region 2 DVDs - Britain has half of the great films all to themselves on DVD.
edit: my point in bringing this up in a discussion about GameFly is how this is a problem that a videogame service can totally sidestep. There's simply no such thing as an "independent" game of any stature (they're being funneled into browsers and console download services), similar to the non-existence of "independent movies" until the 60s.
I don't the buy the throttled claims. I have the three-at-a-time plan and usually end up sending all three back the same day I get them, or the very next day. I regularly go through six discs every week, and have for the two years that I've been a paying member, yet haven't seen any indication that I am actively being throttled.
Throttling exists. Netflix just lost a lawsuit about it. Perhaps it hasn't happened to you for the same reason it hasn't happened to Jonny - (relatively) obscure titles? Also, the people who get throttled usually are on a plan higher than three-at-a-time. We're talking EXCESSIVE movie watching.
side rant: the word "independent" is a total misnomer. Almost all of the films labeled "independent" are financed or purchased for distribution by a giant studio like 20th Century Fox or Dreamworks or Warners, but they hide the film under their "independent" branch. Nevermind that some of these companies (Fox, Time Warner, Disney) are the biggest conglomerates in THE WORLD. So if we're talking Little Miss Sunshine or Juno here, don't talk to me about "independent." If your movie has Greg Fucking Kinnear in it, it's not an independent film.
Post by: NWR_Karl on August 19, 2008, 12:22:37 AM
I used GameFly for a few months earlier this year, and it just felt extremely lackluster. It took up to a week and a half just for games to register as "returned," let alone for them to send out the next game on my "Q." Keep in mind I live in Tallahassee, and there's a GameFly shipping center in Tampa. There's really no reason why, even with regular old snail-mail, it should take that long.
My other problem was their seriously evasive customer service. I don't know what the situation is now, but back when I had a subscription, there was no phone number for customer service, but rather a "leave a note, we'll get back to you" form - or so I thought. Through a couple Google searches, I ended up getting their HQ number, and I was able to fix the problem. Still, if there's a customer service line, why the hell wasn't it readily available on their website?
Netflix is really out of its mind not getting into the game rental business. They have the brand recognition and distribution power to completely destroy GameFly, and I'd definitely get an account there if they did.
SIDE RANT: Ev, if a crew films a movie that they themselves finance, and then a big studio decides to distribute (due to buzz at Cannes or what have you), it's still an independent film. Jonathan Blow financed Braid along with his team all on their own, and then Microsoft threw it up on XBLA. Is the game not still a third party release?
Post by: Morari on August 19, 2008, 12:35:14 AM
Throttling exists. Netflix just lost a lawsuit about it. Perhaps it hasn't happened to you for the same reason it hasn't happened to Jonny - (relatively) obscure titles? Also, the people who get throttled usually are on a plan higher than three-at-a-time. We're talking EXCESSIVE movie watching.
Perhaps. Then again, I definitely abuse the system and must at least use more than the expected amount in shipping costs if nothing else. For the most part I am renting films that no one else cares about, but there are older films that sometimes get knocked into the "Short Wait" category. On the odd event that I do want a brand new film, I have it sitting atop my Queue for days before release, and generally receive it on the release date because it is shipped out the preceding Friday or Saturday. Again however, these are generally not blockbusters.
side rant: the word "independent" is a total misnomer. Almost all of the films labeled "independent" are financed or purchased for distribution by a giant studio like 20th Century Fox or Dreamworks or Warners, but they hide the film under their "independent" branch. Nevermind that some of these companies (Fox, Time Warner, Disney) are the biggest conglomerates in THE WORLD. So if we're talking Little Miss Sunshine or Juno here, don't talk to me about "independent." If your movie has Greg Fucking Kinnear in it, it's not an independent film.
I agree completely. The majority of those films fall into the same trite pit of being too quirky for their own good... or worse yet, too melodramatic. They are often just as cliche as the general Hollywood stuff but in a different manner.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 19, 2008, 02:34:48 AM
To push this Talkback even further off-topic, if anyone wants a great source for movie recommendations, check out the Filmspotting podcast. They review new theatrical releases (with a good mix of blockbusters and indie films), have themed marathons of classic and foreign films, and give weekly Top 5 lists that will point you towards dozens and dozens of excellent movies that you never heard of before. Listening to this podcast over the past two years has quadrupled my movie IQ.
Post by: NWR_Karl on August 19, 2008, 03:15:08 AM
Post by: Svevan on August 19, 2008, 03:15:55 AM
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 19, 2008, 03:17:12 AM
My beefs:
Queuing games is annoying. I want the game I ask for. Not the game I asked for 3 weeks ago. I may not see the game I want now for several weeks.
The turnaround time for me is about 5 days. it's pretty tolerable for me, but isn't great.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 19, 2008, 03:20:45 AM
uh....let me know how you like Caligula....
A revolting, raunchy movie is what it is.
Also
Blockbuster Online > Netflix
Post by: Plugabugz on August 19, 2008, 06:14:44 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on August 19, 2008, 06:58:03 AM
In any event, I have been considering a move back to Tampa lately, so maybe if I do go back there I'll give it a shot and see if the turnaround is any better at the source.
Post by: NWR_Neal on August 19, 2008, 08:44:13 AM
My first two games I was supposed to get were Final Fantasy IV and Skate. Skate came from Tampa and FFIV came from Pittsburgh. I live in New Jersey. The Tampa came about 3-4 days after it shipped and the Pittsburgh one came about a week after that.
I think the only good thing about it is that the Keep It prices are usually pretty decent especially when you factor in the various percentages-off they have and the 5 "Gamefly" Dollars you get every couple months.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 19, 2008, 10:27:19 AM
Blockbuster Online is only a good deal if you are willing to drive to your local store at least twice a week to exploit the system. I am not.
Post by: vudu on August 19, 2008, 02:18:58 PM
Evan, I got that number from Netflix's own website. Where did you find a list of 55?
I live in Chicago, and I regularly get discs from three shipping centers in northern Illinois. I don't think Netflix has over 15% of its distribution within a couple hours of my house.
Post by: Halbred on August 19, 2008, 03:29:47 PM
I do my research and buy the games I want. I also get free games of varying quality to review. I've kept very few of them, but at least they're free! NWR is my GameFly!
Post by: KDR_11k on August 19, 2008, 03:49:41 PM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 19, 2008, 04:29:58 PM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 20, 2008, 12:51:15 AM
Q:
Where are Netflix's distribution centers located?
A:
Here are some of the metropolitan areas where we have distribution centers:
* Atlanta
* Boston
* Dallas
* Denver
* Detroit
* Fort Lauderdale
* Houston
* Los Angeles
* Minneapolis
* New York
* Newark
* Phoenix
* Philadelphia
* Portland
* San Jose
* Stamford
* Seattle
* Washington, DC
I guess it just says "some", so they do have more than the ones listed here. This is the list that I counted for my blog post.
Post by: KDR_11k on August 20, 2008, 05:04:18 AM
Post by: Svevan on August 20, 2008, 07:09:44 AM
edit: I love the argument that the consumer only wants new releases, and only likes certain types of movies. Well when studios EXCLUSIVELY produced those types of movies, and movie distribution in our day is so heavily geared towards fast money weekends and new release rental sales, it's no wonder the public has no idea that there were movies made before 1992 (and that they might like them!).
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 20, 2008, 12:32:04 PM
Fun story (http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/08/blockbuster-ceo.html) on how much Blockbuster just doesn't get movies.
Blockbuster's CEO may not be a fan of old movies, but he's probably right about weighting supply towards new releases. However, trying to claim that a larger catalog isn't a selling point is some of the most pathetic spin I've ever seen.
Post by: RABicle on August 21, 2008, 01:05:04 AM
Quote
Last Monday, I returned my first game, Gears of War, and began eagerly awaiting the next one on my queue, Indigo Prophecy. I got notice of the exchange on Friday and received the new game today, Monday. So the turnaround time has improved from ten days to only seven. This is still totally inadequate considering that I'm paying by the month.
That was your mistake RIGHT THERE. That game is a fucking disaster.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 21, 2008, 12:51:51 PM
Post by: RABicle on August 21, 2008, 01:01:03 PM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 21, 2008, 01:59:15 PM
Post by: Djunknown on August 21, 2008, 05:49:57 PM
For example: I'm in the greater Detroit area and placed an order. I have an option to go the center, with a slip or something saying I'm here to pick up a rental. They look it up, give it me, and play it until I'm ready to return it, by mail or drop-off. Anything wrong with this model?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 21, 2008, 06:20:57 PM
It might be beneficial if they allowed you to just drop off, since that would credit you for the return faster and get your next one sent out that much sooner, but it wouldn't save GameFly any money since they already paid the postage for you to mail it back. They'd still have to build a drop off point for you, too.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on August 23, 2008, 02:44:39 AM
Post by: Pale on August 25, 2008, 03:15:20 PM
http://www.netflix.com/FAQ?p_faqid=145
Q:
Where are Netflix's distribution centers located?
A:
Here are some of the metropolitan areas where we have distribution centers:
* Atlanta
* Boston
* Dallas
* Denver
* Detroit
* Fort Lauderdale
* Houston
* Los Angeles
* Minneapolis
* New York
* Newark
* Phoenix
* Philadelphia
* Portland
* San Jose
* Stamford
* Seattle
* Washington, DC
I guess it just says "some", so they do have more than the ones listed here. This is the list that I counted for my blog post.
Yeah, that's definitely not all of them. My movies get delivered to and arrive from a PO box at the Rochester Post Office I regularly visit to ship games. I often wonder if I should just start dropping them off.
Post by: Halbred on August 25, 2008, 04:48:59 PM
