Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 07:29:34 AM
I bought a gamecube, and I buy games for the gamecube, I should not have to buy a handheld unit in order to fully use what I have already purchased, the stupid tingle tuner and original metroid you can open are perfect examples.
I have no desire at all to own or play a handheld unit, I barely have enough time to play the freaking console.
If nintendo wants to have these things in thier games, so be it, but at least give poeple who dont want to buy a GBA another way to open and use these options.
This is honestly a stunt that Microsoft would pull and everyone would be screaming monopoly. I dont see this as any differant and including IE with the Windows disk.
Give me a choice Nintendo, dont force me to buy hardware I simply dont want.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 04, 2003, 07:46:32 AM
Besides a lot of these bonus realistically require a second screen. Now the Metroid one doesn't but the Tingle Tuner sure does. The Tingle Tuner wouldn't work without a GBA screen to look at.
Plus it's not like the GBA is only used to unlock stuff. It's actually a worthwhile purchase on it's own. If Nintendo was merely making people buy an unlock device that does nothing but unlock secrets then I would be pissed. But really the GC and GBA are both worth owning on their own so I don't see any problem with Nintendo rewarding those who own both with special extras.
Microsoft would have done the DVD Remote/Live Starter Kit thing where you have to pay extra to enable the hardware feature that came with the console (in their case the DVD player and modem).
Post by: yeg0 on April 04, 2003, 07:47:09 AM
There is NO GAME that REQUIRES GCN-GBA link up to complete it. You just get extras.
EDIT: You can also use a friend's GBA
Post by: popkorn1 on April 04, 2003, 07:50:43 AM
The Tingle Tuner absolutely isn't necessary for gameplay. If the link-up was never created, the Tingle Tuner wouldn't be there - and nobody would miss it. Nintendo is giving gamers a bonus with this ability, there's no need to complain that you can't take advantage of it. If you want it so bad, go buy it. But you definately don't NEED to buy it.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 08:05:18 AM
I dont care if they are "BONUS", I bought the game and therefore should be able to access all the features of that game without additional hardware.
Why not have a small pic in pic on the screen where I can access tingle without the GBA?
Why not let me access Metroid when I beat Prime without a GBA?
They do this in a effort to sell more hardware, to think otherwise is very niave.
Quote
You don't want a Game Boy Advanced?
No I dont. I have no desire to stare at such a small screen, or play ports of old games, or play games with lesser graphics than the console I already own.
The two items are stand alone. If nintendo wants to connect them for certain things, fine, but give non GBA owners an option to get the same bonus's another way. If not, I see it as nothing more than a marketing ploy.
Post by: reivned on April 04, 2003, 08:20:42 AM
I mean I'm sure the GBA is a nice console with a buttload of good games, but I'm not into handheld and I also barely have the time to play my cube. I don't care that much for little extras like that tingle tuner thing (actually I don't even know what it is, haven't started WW yet) or the AC island, but I must admit that I'd like to unlock the original Metroid without renting a GBA and a link cable (none of my friends got either). I mean I payed FULL PRICE for that gamedisc, so I should be allowed access to everything on it without any additional cost or purchase or renting. I mean even if dated it's a entire, stand alone and classic game I cannot access !
Anyway ... the moment they don't issue a game that will require the connectivity I don't bother that much ...
Post by: StRaNgE on April 04, 2003, 08:37:22 AM
I did recently pick up an SP, I had planned on buying a second cube for my work but went with the SP instead. I went ahead and got a link cable while I was at it and Zelda. There is no way a picture in picture screen would be the same with tingle. I play without tingle even though I have an SP and can play with him. So he is still a bonus that is very unneeded to enjoy the game. I do hook him up when my son wants to play together through and that made it more then worth it.
Yes it's a way for Nintendo to sell more product , why wouldn't it be? they are in the market to sell things, but in no way shape or form would lacking a game boy advance hinder your enjoyment of the cube games.
Oh and having an SP has actually made me enjoy a hand held something I never thought would happen.
Post by: WesDawg on April 04, 2003, 08:45:49 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on April 04, 2003, 08:47:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
I dont care if they are "BONUS", I bought the game and therefore should be able to access all the features of that game without additional hardware.
Well, unfortunately that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I got Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2 last fall, and earlier this month picked up the sweet new Logitech Speed Force steering wheel. It was a pleasant surprise to find that the game supports the wheel with all sorts of additional force feedback features that change the gameplay significantly. Should I expect to have these same features without spending $80 on a wheel? Of course not. How in the world could you implement them? Although there are some cheap, uncreative means of using the GBA connectivity, other features like the Tingle Tuner simply are not possible without another screen and controller - whether that means getting an GBA or another GameCube with a Game Boy Player.
Post by: Bloodworth on April 04, 2003, 08:49:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
No I dont. I have no desire to stare at such a small screen, or play ports of old games, or play games with lesser graphics than the console I already own.
Then why complain about not being able to play the original Metroid.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 08:54:02 AM
The wheel and the game are made by differant companies.
The cube and GBA are made by the same one, this is the big differance here.
This is one company trying to sell me additional products they make by limiting what I can do with the products I have already purchased. This IMO is not right.
I am curious how the wheel you mention actually changes the gameplay?
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 08:56:39 AM
Quote
Then why complain about not being able to play the original Metroid.
I am not complaining about not being able to play it as much as not being able to at least have the option without an additional purchase.
Post by: Gharakh on April 04, 2003, 09:03:33 AM
Quote
I dont care if they are "BONUS", I bought the game and therefore should be able to access all the features of that game without additional hardware. Why not have a small pic in pic on the screen where I can access tingle without the GBA?
what would be the point in that? of course nintendo is trying to make money off of this but it's also supposed to be a nice little feature for people who already own a gba and cube. it's not like nintendo is taking anything away from the game. you are still getting a full game. you still get all of metroid prime. you still get all of wind waker. i don't see what your complaint is. basically what you're saying is nintendo shouldn't add any bonuses into games and that makes even less sense. how bout you just calm down and enjoy the game for what it is
Post by: Bloodworth on April 04, 2003, 09:09:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
This is one company trying to sell me additional products they make by limiting what I can do with the products I have already purchased. This IMO is not right.
Well, you're looking at it from an entirely different perspective than the designers. They're not trying to find ways to cut out features to make you buy a GBA (actually the goal is more likely to sell GameCubes to GBA owners), they're ADDING features as bonuses for those that do have one. The Metroid thing especially - It's no good to own both games. You have to BEAT both to get all the bonuses. Anyways, it has as much to do with the creative possibilities as the marketing possibilities. Miyamoto told us at DICE that Connectivity is still one of their greater challenges. They have the ability to link up systems, but they're still trying to find ways to connect them that don't seem merely gimmicky - which IMO Wind Waker is the first to accomplish.
Quote
I am curious how the wheel you mention actually changes the gameplay?
If you've never played with a wheel with force feedback, it's hard to explain, but basically the wheel will pull against you realistically if you get bumped, spin out of control or simply are going up hill at an awkward angle. You'll also feel bumps as you cross wooden bridges or dirt roads. It's far more advanced than the simple off/on rumble of standard controllers.
Post by: Strell on April 04, 2003, 09:10:10 AM
You think you have a point, but you don't. They are called extras for a reason. Half the time they don't even really enhance gameplay. At best you get something like the Tingle Tuner, but even that isn't worth all that much. Animal Crossing gives you all of a boring little island. Mmmm what else. I can download chao into a chao garden, etc.
Point being is that there really isn't all that much you can DO with the connection. Sure it's fun to have the extra incentive, and YES, Nintendo does it to sell more of both system, but it's still a gimmick. That's the defenition of a gimmick - something that isn't necessary, but is sold in order to provide an incentive for less than the amount you paid for it. In other words, you spend 10 (cable) + 70 (GBA) = 80 for some things maybe worth 5 bucks.
You were the same guy that complained about mini games. Well same idea here. Shutup. The outcomes of the mini games basically aren't worth the trouble half the time. A 200 rupee? Who cares. I can get that amount in far less time it takes to A) get a treasure map, B) sail to the area, and C) line it up and get the treasure.
I'll say this. I think you do have a point. I just think it's a very weak one, and you're raging against a machine without any real point.
If, and when, Nintendo makes a game that REQUIRES it - and I hear the GC Pokemon does - then you'll have a point. So in the future you might. Until then, just shut up. I'm tired of your whining. If you want access to all the features, then shut up and bite the bullet.
It's all economics and marketing. If Nintendo realizes they can sell an additional 100K GBA's because of the hookup feature, they'd be stupid to NOT take advantage of it. There's also the fact that Nintendo needs the gimmick to really differentiate themselves. But both of these points could be debated and discussed far more than I am doing right now, so I'd rather leave this topic here.
Post by: Bloodworth on April 04, 2003, 09:17:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
You know cubeddumbnook
There's no reason for insults people, no matter how much you disagree.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 09:18:25 AM
good to see that you need to attack me to prove your point, a true sign of intelligence.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 04, 2003, 09:19:12 AM
Even then it might depend on how the game is presented. If it for example comes with a GC/GBA cable and says clearly on the box that it requires a GBA and a copy of Pokemon Ruby/Saffire to access the full game then you can't really complain. At that point the game would have been designed more for Pokemon R/S owners so anyone who just buys the GC game shouldn't have a right to complain. The game wasn't designed for them.
It's like how Perfect Dark needs the N64 expansion pack to access the whole game. The game is essentially designed for the expansion pack and says so on the box. If you don't own the expansion pack and buy the game it's your fault for not doing the research.
If I used this "if I can't access it it's a rip off" logic then a whole slew of my DVD's are a scam to make me buy a DVD-ROM drive because they have DVD-ROM exclusive features.
"The wheel and the game are made by differant companies. The cube and GBA are made by the same one, this is the big differance here."
So that means that when Sega adds a portable Chao garden to Sonic Adventure 2 Battle it's not a scam but when Nintendo adds the island to Animal Crossing it is? It doesn't make a difference.
Post by: Fammy2000 on April 04, 2003, 09:29:29 AM
What about Animal Crossing? It literally takes a miracle to unlock all the NES games without cheating or trading. (BTW, if anyone wants to send me any of the rare games...)
Am I mad? No.
Post by: Cap on April 04, 2003, 09:38:07 AM
Post by: PIAC on April 04, 2003, 09:48:30 AM
i have both GBA and GCN, while i haven't finnished metroid prime or fusion yet, im looking foward to opening the bonus', yet its not really the end of the world if i cant get a different skin for samus or play a 15? year old game. ohwell, everyones entitled to an opinion, just strikes me as odd that someone would complain about something thats rather insignifigant.. /me wanders to the loungeroom and plays metroid prime
Post by: Strell on April 04, 2003, 10:09:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
strell
good to see that you need to attack me to prove your point, a true sign of intelligence.
Good to say you CAN'T make a point no matter what, an even better indicated of intelligence.
Post by: Strell on April 04, 2003, 10:13:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Fammy2000
What about Pokemon games? You need two of those boogers to catch all the Pokemon.
What about Animal Crossing? It literally takes a miracle to unlock all the NES games without cheating or trading. (BTW, if anyone wants to send me any of the rare games...)
Am I mad? No.
Yea, I forgot, the whole "trading" aspect of Pokemon. Really, spend anothr 30 bucks on a game instead of taking advantage of one of Pokemon's greatest strengths.
What ABOUT Animal Crossing? That's how the game is designed, you understand that don't you? I didn't go around crying when it took me 3-4 hours on average to get a special weapon in Earthbound, like the Gutsy Bat or Sword of Kings.
You people realize games are designed with specific purposes and goals, right? That you don't open it up, pop it in, and it goes YOU HAVE WON THE GAME! Geez, I remember when it took pure hardcore oldskool skill to beat games, when 99% was skill and 1% was luck. I'd hate to see you poeple put through the rigors of the harder NES and SNES games. "Omg I can't get a free man until a million points?"
And yes, I do walk 5 miles through the snow uphill agains the wind both ways without shoes in order to get to skool. I also have to shoot wolves on the way there, stop the bank robber, and free the children from the clutches of the eeeeeeevil Ice Queen.
Are you mad? No. Do you have a point? Also no.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 10:15:01 AM
you sound like a bitter child. grow up
Post by: Strell on April 04, 2003, 10:17:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
strell
good to see that you need to attack me to prove your point, a true sign of intelligence.
you sound like a bitter child. grow up
And the crowd goes wild......
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 04, 2003, 10:26:19 AM
QuoteTake your own advice and get over the GBA and GCN connective features.
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
you sound like a bitter child. grow up
I would like to point out that the whole idea of the Metroid bonus in Prime was that it was for hardcore Metroid fans. If you were a hardcore fan then you would have purchased both games. This means that you would have both GC and a GBA therefore you could unlock the first Metroid game. It was a bonus for hardcore fans not for people like you.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on April 04, 2003, 10:54:48 AM
I have a GBA and GCN so I'm happy and have no real opinion on this topic..
well... i do have some opinions:
oh.. yeah the Tingle thing could work without a GBA, but I don't think that it would be as helpful ... adn to anyone out there who has a Gameboy Advanced or the Gameboy player, i highly recommend Advance Wars (if you do not already own it)
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 04, 2003, 10:57:19 AM
Do you know how ignorant that sounds? They AREN'T forcing you to buy a GBA, only if you want a few extras (not even that great extras). If you're so pissed off that Nintendo won't allow you to access these extras without a GBA, then get a GBA. Otherwise, shut up. I don't believe people should complain about something they are perfectly capable of fixing.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on April 04, 2003, 11:07:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Gibdo Master<br
I would like to point out that the whole idea of the Metroid bonus in Prime was that it was for hardcore Metroid fans. If you were a hardcore fan then you would have purchased both games. This means that you would have both GC and a GBA therefore you could unlock the first Metroid game. It was a bonus for hardcore fans not for people like you.
not everyone is a hardcore fan of every Nintendo Game.. don't try to use that as leverage in your argument..
a real fan would have bought the 5@|\/||_|5 @|<+10|\| figure
[edit] someone please kill me
Post by: The Omen on April 04, 2003, 12:24:16 PM
GBA is a great system in it's own right, and I hear what you're saying about the small screen. But the Game boy player willl be out in a couple of months, and then you can play on the big screen.
So my response is, if you're upset you're missing out on some options 'SO WHAT, BUY A GBA'
Post by: Bloodworth on April 04, 2003, 12:49:36 PM
End the fight now. The next one to toss out an insult is going to get banned.
Post by: nolimit19 on April 04, 2003, 01:28:14 PM
Post by: Wesisapie on April 04, 2003, 01:36:19 PM
Post by: Wesisapie on April 04, 2003, 01:37:33 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 04, 2003, 01:40:25 PM
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 01:55:28 PM
QuoteI don't agree with cubedcanuck(*), but I support his right to express his opinion. Why do you guys insist upon making him change it?
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
I dont care if they are "BONUS", I bought the game and therefore should be able to access all the features of that game without additional hardware.
*(mainly because the Tingle Tuner golden statue collection run was stupid... and the Original Metroid I have on an emulator + original cart. As long as the GBA bonuses are basically worthless junk, I could care less about them.)
Troy
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 04, 2003, 02:12:39 PM
Post by: PorpoiseMuffins on April 04, 2003, 02:31:14 PM
Personally, I say, who cares? This reminds me of a debate in Nintendo Power a long time ago where a bunch of people were saying something about Nintendo limiting their fun in Goldeneye because they weren't good enough to get to the next level. I mean, you knew you couldn't access the Game Boy Advance features when you bought the GameCube game, right? So, It's not like they're trying to trick you or anything. What you spent that $50 on was what you could access in the game without the Game Boy Advance. I mean, would you rather they just not put it in? They'd still be charging the same price for the game whether there were extras or not. Just look at it that way. And enough uncivilized arguing. Sheesh. If you still think it's unfair, then so be it.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 04, 2003, 03:50:53 PM
All I am saying is that the 2 are seperate units and should remain that way.
Its nothing personal and it doesnt mean I hate Nintendo.
So please lighten up a tad.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 04, 2003, 04:02:06 PM
Honestly, I hold by with what I said. I don't think people should complain about something they is entirely within their power to fix. If you really want those GBA extras so much, get a GBA. Otherwise, we don't want to hear how your games are suffering because you can't access pitiful little extras (and that's what most of them are: pitiful).
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 04:32:50 PM
Post by: Bondo on April 04, 2003, 05:12:08 PM
What is really irritating is that Nintendo is literally two faced about the GBA link. They brush off all requests for online play saying they "want to make games that everyone can play." Well, I certainly can't play NES metroid. Clearly not everyone can play it. I like the GBA link, even though I'll never get one, and I bought A gameboy *solely* for Link's Awakening. I would like to play Metroid, but at least they should at least come up with a good excuse for denying online play, because they break their excuse every time they release a game with GBA functionality.
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 05:15:34 PM
and as for online, if 1/3 of the PS2 market can play online, that is two million-3 million people. if only 1/3 can play on GC, that is only 1 million, not very profitable.
and finally, i dont think they would have put these features in if there was no link.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 04, 2003, 05:17:33 PM
Post by: Arbok on April 04, 2003, 05:22:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Nintendo's just rewarding people who own both consoles- it's like extra credit on a test....
Hmmm.... good metaphor!
Post by: Oogle on April 04, 2003, 05:25:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
This is honestly a stunt that Microsoft would pull and everyone would be screaming monopoly. I dont see this as any differant and including IE with the Windows disk.
Well, here's the difference:
You buy Zelda: WW and you want to access bonus features. You have 2 choices:
- You don't buy a GBA and live with the agony.
- You buy a GBA and let your sibling play along.
Now, you buy WinXP and you don't want IE. You have 2 choices:
- You keep IE and live with the agony.
- You remove IE and... oh wait, you can't remove it. There is no 2nd choice.
It's like saying that you hate Mario Kart because you had to buy 3 more controllers to play a 4-player battle royale by yourself.
Post by: Bondo on April 04, 2003, 05:36:45 PM
Also, the tingle tuner could work without a GBA, all they would need to do is put another window on the screen, much like the map inset.
And to the other poster, I have (well, I had a NES) but I got sick of blowing on the cartridges for a half hour to make it work.
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 06:02:34 PM
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 06:04:16 PM
Post by: StRaNgE on April 04, 2003, 06:10:17 PM
Quote
Also, the tingle tuner could work without a GBA, all they would need to do is put another window on the screen, much like the map inset.
This shows that you have yet to try it out because what you say is the furthest thing from the truth, it would not be anything like it is now if it was done like that. It would take the fun of cooperation right out the window.
I still don't get why any of you are upset about the GBA extras?
They are just extras, big deal if you don't want them. would you prefer those extras just not be there at all?
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 06:14:50 PM
Post by: JoeFalco on April 04, 2003, 06:32:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
wow, some people take this way to personally.
All I am saying is that the 2 are seperate units and should remain that way.
Its nothing personal and it doesnt mean I hate Nintendo.
So please lighten up a tad.
Ok...I've read this entire discussion and for some strange reason, I feel compelled to give my two cents in the matter. Canuck, I understand what you are saying. You believe in something that is different from the general direction that Nintendo is taking. Miyamoto wants to build on connectivity in games which you find to be only a marketing ploy (and c'mon everyone, whether or not that's Nintendo's reason, they're still making money off of it.
) and that separate systems should, well, stay separate. If you buy a game for a certain system, any player should be able to access every single feature that is a part of that game without the need of purchasing additional hardware (note that I wrote hardware, not software). This is what you believe in and I respect your opinion nonetheless. It is a conflict between different philosophies from what I gather. Myself, I believe this is Nintendo's way of awarding N fans that buy their systems and games. I feel that there is great potential in the possibilities of increasing gameplay by combining the power of two systems. Canuck, you, on the other hand, believe that is entirely unnecessary to require two systems to enjoy all the hidden secrets and features embedded in a single game.Note to Canuck: If you feel that I have completely twisted the meaning of your words and intentions then I apologize.
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 06:42:11 PM
Also it could be a driving force to purchase more things, like the e-reader for use with AC. There are alot of things to consider, but i fully understand where you come from, i used to not think i would get a GBA, then i did, now i am happy i did. HEre is why i think the small screen objection is obsolete, because no one is gonna buy a game like Advance wars with those graphics on the gamecube. It keeps the 2d life alive.
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 04, 2003, 07:18:54 PM
QuoteDid you even actually bother to read my post. I said that it was for HARDCORE METROID FANS. I didn't say that you had to be a hardcore fan of Nintendo and all of their games. The figure has nothing to do with the games series so don't try to use that as leverage in your argument. A hardcore Metroid fan is someone who wants to play and own every game. Not someone who wants to buy some stupid figure. Again my point was that if you are a HARDCORE METROID FANS that you would own and beat both the GC and GBA game and therefore get to unlock Metroid in Metroid Prime.
Originally posted by: Stimutacs AddictQuote
Originally posted by: Gibdo Master<br
I would like to point out that the whole idea of the Metroid bonus in Prime was that it was for hardcore Metroid fans. If you were a hardcore fan then you would have purchased both games. This means that you would have both GC and a GBA therefore you could unlock the first Metroid game. It was a bonus for hardcore fans not for people like you.
not everyone is a hardcore fan of every Nintendo Game.. don't try to use that as leverage in your argument..
a real fan would have bought the 5@|\/||_|5 @|<+10|\| figure
[edit] someone please kill me
Post by: RahXephon on April 04, 2003, 07:20:44 PM
Post by: DrunkenBone on April 04, 2003, 07:27:48 PM
Post by: JoeFalco on April 04, 2003, 07:36:06 PM
Anyway, I don't believe this whole thing to be much of a scam either for the same reasons you posted.
Also, if Nintendo released an Earthbound game for the GC, I'm positive hardcore EB fans would purchase Gamecubes in order to play the game. If you cater to the right tastes, you're bound to attract customers.
Post by: mojorizin on April 04, 2003, 08:21:29 PM
It would be a much different story if the GBA link fundamentally changed gameplay or was an absolute requirement. Is anyone really of the opinion that MP or WW are not worth the price of admission as they are? To most of us, these are two of the finest games ever made - the GBA connectivity just provides a little extra to round out what is already a fantastic gaming experience (kinda like the extra "crunchies" in the bottom of the Long John Silvers bag - I dunno where the hell they come from, but man, I love 'em).
The fact is Nintendo doesn't have to add the GBA features to GC games. With sales through the roof on GBA/GBASP, its hardly necessary and I can't imagine it makes much difference in GC sales. I don't think its a case of getting less for your money; on the contrary, it shows Nintendo is willing to put some thought and effort into expanding the experience and rewarding loyalty to get you MORE for your dough.
In the immortal words of Sgt. Hulka: "Lighten up, Francis."
Post by: razorpit on April 04, 2003, 08:43:16 PM
If you don't want the extras don't buy a GBA, and purchase an X-Box or PS2 instead. You don't think MS and Sony would do the same thing IF they had handheld units? Ask an X-Box owner how they feel about having to purchase X-Box Live just to play PSO2 at home by themselves.
The GBA link is pretty cool. We're just finally starting to see the fruits of what was promised at the GC launch. Don't like it, don't buy it, shut up, and save our bandwidth. The last I checked, the expansion possibilities for a 2600 are slim to none. You might want to pick one of those up in a yard sale.
--Dave
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 04, 2003, 08:49:33 PM
BITCH RANT COMPLAIN!
Post by: egman on April 05, 2003, 02:33:26 AM
Right now I'm seriously thinking about getting a SP. Not because of the extra features mind you (right now those features have not been extensive, probably because Nintendo has taken in the account the views of someone like thecubedcanuck who feels like they are being ripped off). In its own right it is an awesome system, and the bonsuses are just icing on this delicious cake of gaming goodness. For me, the GBA connectivity is like an ehanced version of what Sega was exploring with their VMUs, so I'm eager to see what comes in the furture.
In the end, I don't think anyone should complain about the bonuses. Nintendo is not dumb, and as evidence by the kinds of extras seen thus far, I'm confident they having been thinking about the reservations that have been covered in this thread. You can complete WW without the tingle tuner; Samus's Fusion suit does not ehance her abilities in Metroid Prime. Nintendo is a business, and therefore it behoves them not to piss off their consumer base, but at the same time find ways encourage or reward people who strongly support their hardware.
Post by: Uglydot on April 05, 2003, 02:34:29 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 06:22:53 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 05, 2003, 06:27:39 AM
You understood my point completely and your post completely summed it up.
Thank you for being objective, a welcome change around here.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 06:36:18 AM
) you should still try to be nice to us not-idiots (which I hope I am). Strell's comments were dumb, but you were no less childish in your response.As for the actual linking thing, it seems obvious to me that everyone is right. It's merely fun for those that have GBA and GC, but it's also a use for making more money. While I'm disinclined to believe that people will go out and get a GBA/GC and the required games just to get these bonuses, it's both a way to make money and entertain fans. Also, I'm sorry for calling you ignorant. It was a hasty and poor decision.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 05, 2003, 06:45:12 AM
I agree my responces to Strell were uncalled for and I should have used a more restraint. I was just suprised at his responce, as I saw no need for it at all.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 06:51:56 AM
Post by: Strell on April 05, 2003, 07:16:52 AM
I'd love to say you have a point in your remarks, Hostile, but all it sounds like is a bunch of rambling from someone who is clueless. If you look, you'll find my comments are echoed up and down in this thread. Maybe if I was saying something truly outrageous, like "Monkeys should make a video game console," then you might be worth listening to. But you're not. You're just taking a cheap shot because you feel like it. Grow up, seriously.
Post by: misterd on April 05, 2003, 08:24:49 AM
The truth is most people who own a GBA/GBASP would have bought one regardless of the GCN. For those who bought one ONLY for the link features, I would expect you to be disappointed so far. Then again, I would expect that you would have waited to see if any games came out with halfway decent support for the link before dropping $80 on the system too.
Post by: BlackGriffen on April 05, 2003, 08:25:27 AM
My take: this isn't even as bad as having to buy the Zapper or the Super Scope 6 to play a game. This is a way of rewarding those who own both systems, and thus encourages them to own both. Don't want to own both? Fine, you just won't have access to the unnecessary extras.
The other way to look at it is that it's like lego sets. They can all interoprate, letting you make more of them combined than either separate. This way Nintendo can squeeze in features that their competition can't. Just count yourself lucky they haven't decided to make the connection essential for any games, as, IMHO, they are entitled to do.
That's the way the game makers want to make some (note not all) of their games, take it or leave it. To quote Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, "EITHER WAY, I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU THINK YOU'RE ENTITLED TO!"
BlackGriffen
Post by: MrShag on April 05, 2003, 08:27:39 AM
Post by: thepoga on April 05, 2003, 08:34:25 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 05, 2003, 08:47:33 AM
"Has anyone realized that cubediforgetthenamesorry has not made anymore posts?"
I have posted numerous times in this thread. I am not sure what you are getting at?
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 09:08:45 AM
Post by: Strell on April 05, 2003, 09:13:09 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 09:19:44 AM
Sorry, but you were grabbing my legs and begging me.
Post by: Strell on April 05, 2003, 09:24:17 AM
I'll agree we've all said stupid things, but I didn't say anything WRONG. Stupid? Of course, I always say stupid things. Wrong? No. Again, read what I said, then read what others are saying, and you'll see we're all saying the same thing.
I hope I was wearing gloves when I grabbed your legs.
Post by: PorpoiseMuffins on April 05, 2003, 09:25:32 AM
Now could we all stop arguing about arguing?
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 09:30:04 AM
I agree with muffins. Let's stop arguing (like I suggested several times already
)(Also, I doubt the gloves would help. The sheer ickiness would burn right through them)
Post by: Strell on April 05, 2003, 09:38:14 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 09:47:56 AM
Post by: Strell on April 05, 2003, 09:53:26 AM
Post by: PIAC on April 05, 2003, 10:40:49 AM
also thinking about it more, i can definatly see where your coming from cubed, and yes in theory your being ripped off due to the fact you paid the same amount for metroid prime/the wind waker as joe gameboy user yet cant access everything these games have to offer. do you have any friends that have a copy of metroid fusion? if so you could drag them round to your place and atleast have a go of the bonus'
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2003, 11:16:24 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on April 05, 2003, 01:31:21 PM
Post by: PIAC on April 05, 2003, 01:37:26 PM
huzzah! i win
Post by: nolimit19 on April 05, 2003, 01:51:58 PM
Post by: Wesisapie on April 05, 2003, 01:52:27 PM
Post by: PIAC on April 05, 2003, 02:25:47 PM
Post by: dafunkk12 on April 05, 2003, 07:36:15 PM
QuoteNote: It's not my intention to make this personalized to anyone, so if you take offense to it, you're a tad too sensitive and overly self-conscious.
And to the other poster, I have (well, I had a NES) but I got sick of blowing on the cartridges for a half hour to make it work.
You say that everything should be available without an additional purchase? What if it's locked and requires skill to unlock? What about minor physical skills with electronics?
Actually for the time it takes to blow on those cartridges, you could fix the hardware problem yourself. All you need is a screwdriver and a utility knife. I'm almost certain no one still has a valid NES warranty, right? So pop open the casing. You'll notice that the place where the cartridge contacts make...er, contact is a sort of removable bridge. Take that out, and use the utility knife to pry out the contacts (and maybe scrape them clean a bit, while you're at it; careful where those metal shavings go). Upon reassembly, you'll notice that cartridges fit much more snuggly and require a surprising bit of force to remove now. The problem with the NES wasn't really with the cartridges, but the fact the circuits couldn't be properly completed because the contact pins inside the NES weren't making contact.
Sidenote: If you have a Dreamcast that randomly drops back to the Operating System screen (even with legit games), open the sucker and pull out the power converter. Scrape the pins that connect it with the main board, and you should be set.
Post by: Strell on April 05, 2003, 07:51:28 PM
Dafunkk, you got pics on how to do that? I have me NES set up, but it's a pain to get the carts to work.
Oh! Same with Dreamcast too!!!!!!!!!
Post by: JoeSmashBro on April 06, 2003, 03:58:17 AM
Quote
"This is honestly a stunt that Microsoft would pull and everyone would be screaming monopoly."
Microsoft does do this and nobody seemed to care very much. You can only get the last 5 missions or so of Splinter Cell by using XBox live, even though it's not an online game at all.
Post by: oohhboy on April 06, 2003, 04:20:11 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 06, 2003, 10:40:02 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 06, 2003, 10:40:03 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 06, 2003, 10:40:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: OogleQuoteYou can't remove Internet Explorer? Why not? That's bogus.
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuckNow, you buy WinXP and you don't want IE. You have 2 choices:
- You keep IE and live with the agony.
- You remove IE and... oh wait, you can't remove it. There is no 2nd choice.
re: Metroid. Why would you want to play it? It's so ridiculously primitive that it's not worth the $100 expense of Gameboy + Link Cable. I mean, look at: Yuck:
http://www.gamescreenshots.com/smallthumbs.asp?category=nintendo&game_id=44
Troy
Post by: theaveng on April 06, 2003, 10:51:11 AM
QuoteThat's nice, but nothing you said justifies the way you insult people mouse_clicker. You've insulted me. You've insulted cubedcanuck. And you've insulted several other people over at the Zelda forum.
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
THere you are again with that opinion crap. Yeah, he has the right, but he has to at least have a valid ponit. He's just spouting out crap as far as I'm concerned. If people are going to complain they should at least make a point of having a good reason for it.
NOW STOP IT. Act like a mature adult, not an immature teenager. People are entitled to express their opinion and NOT be insulted for them. You should attack ideas, NOT people.
Troy
Post by: RahXephon on April 06, 2003, 11:07:04 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 06, 2003, 11:49:17 AM
I think cubed is wrong because a) the extras aren't necessary to beat the main game, so he's not being forced to buy a GBA he doesn't want, b) because the extras are there as REWARDS for people that DO have both consoles- they paid the extra money and deserve the extra features, and c) because he can go out and buy a friggin' GBA and GET the extras if he wants to, however he feels the need to bitch and whine to us that he can't get them because he CHOSE not to buy a GBA and blames it all on Nintendo. To ME, that's not an opinion- that's ignorance and arrogance. I really don't think there's a valid reason for people who don't own a GBA to GET the extras in Gamecube games. Like I said- it works like extra credit on a test. You don't need to do it, but if you put out the extra work you get the extra points. I'd be just as pissed off if someone was claiming THEY should've gotten those extra points when they did diddly squat to earn it. I think cubed is being selfish thinking he deserves the same things that those of us who own both consoles get. WE paid for both consoles, so why should he get it free? In my *opinion*, selfishness, arrogance, and ignorance are NOT opinions. Saying "Oh, well I think this team actually has the better players, they just didn't do as well this season" is an opinion because it's subjective. What he is doing is trying to reap the benefits that he didn't earn and he doesn't deserve and I do not think that THAT is a valid opinion. If you disagree, good for you, but I hold by my stance.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 06, 2003, 12:25:50 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 06, 2003, 12:45:13 PM
Post by: BlackGriffen on April 06, 2003, 02:15:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
NOW STOP IT. Act like a mature adult, not an immature teenager. People are entitled to express their opinion and NOT be insulted for them. You should attack ideas, NOT people.
Troy
That's a naive, stinking pile of BS right there. The fact of the matter is, that derision is an often effective rhetorical tool. It can be used to shame the recipient of the derision (much you like you try to do when you insult mouse-clicker above, you didn't simply say "that's irrelevant," you insulted him). It can also be used to alienate the recipient from those who already agree. Even when used for distraction, they can be effective. I'll grant that when overused they tend to fracture communities, but their complete absence makes conversation sterile and boring.
Welcome to the real world, a place where you do not have a right to not be offended, crybaby. *jabs ribs*
BlackGriffen
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 06, 2003, 02:32:57 PM
That was exactly the point of my above post, in so many words (mostly less). Without little insults at eachother, debating can be like between two robotes- completely uninteresting and boring, and when a debate is boring, the debatees tend to not get into as much as they might if they were not only fighting for their stance, but also for their dignity. A heated debate generally brings out the best in both sides and helps drive home good points. Sure, like Griffen pointed out, it's best when used in moderation, but it shouldn't be eliminated altogether (I swear to god I had the exact opposite stance not 2 months ago- shows how fast opinions can change
).
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 06, 2003, 02:37:09 PM
Be cool like us
Post by: popkorn1 on April 06, 2003, 04:04:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PIAC
blimey, this thread went from almost resurecting its self into being constructive, then took a nosedive for the worse. didn't you heed bloodworth's warning strell? atleast thecubedcanuck was man or woman (not sure) enough to admit he was wrong (about the insults) which earns my respect.
also thinking about it more, i can definatly see where your coming from cubed, and yes in theory your being ripped off due to the fact you paid the same amount for metroid prime/the wind waker as joe gameboy user yet cant access everything these games have to offer. do you have any friends that have a copy of metroid fusion? if so you could drag them round to your place and atleast have a go of the bonus'
Actually - Joe Gameboy User paid more money to access the features. Sure, same price for Metroid. But you're forgetting the GBA and the Link cable were also purchased. And come on, guys.. some of you are acting like its an $80 investment JUST to get Tingle. YOU GET A WHOLE NEW SYSTEM! Crimeny. I don't know how much simpler it can get:
You do Nintendo a favor by buying both systems, they do you a favor by hooking you up with UNNECESSARY extras.
It's really a great deal. You don't have to buy a $20 accessory (like a custom controller) just to play the $50 game you bought, no.. the game works as functional as could be. But if you've invested in both systems?It's extra. Extra credit. Bonus. Gift. Score. It's "thanks for buying both systems!"
And my God... you're acting like them including NES Metroid is a BAD thing if you don't have the link. Would you rather have them not include it at all, then nobody could get it?? Because they probably wouldn't have included it if the link feature was never thought up!! I've never seen so many people crave NES Metroid before. GO BUY IT.
Done. How does this not make perfect, agreeable sense, cubed? Refresh your argument while reflecting on what everyone else has added to it. You haven't said much about your side since your initial post.
Post by: Strell on April 06, 2003, 04:52:48 PM
People would do good to learn what me and him know.
Post by: Mercury Crusader on April 06, 2003, 04:55:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Dafunkk, you got pics on how to do that? I have me NES set up, but it's a pain to get the carts to work.
I know I'm not "Dafunkk," but I know where he did get the whole NES prying of the connections thing from, or I'm guessing he did get it from this place:
ClassicGaming.com - Repairing Your NES
I keep routine maintenance on my NES, and it works perfectly after fourteen years. I recently did use that article's handy tip, and as long as you don't use too much force on the connections, you should be fine. I've heard of some guys overdoing it and wrecking their NES altogether. Then again, this ain't an NES message board, so...
I own the GBA and GC and that little link dealie. With games like Metroid Prime, although NES Metroid is a nice bonus, it should've been unlockable without the GBA. However, with games like The Wind Waker, the Tingle Tuner thing was made to be done with a seperate screen, and while it made some areas easier to get through, it wasn't necessary, and I could've easy gone through the game without it at all. I only used it on one dungeon, and that was it. Point being, a window of possibilities is open with the linking option, but save a few games, at this point in time, it's gimmicky and not worth the money. However, I'd like to see some better uses with the link option besides those already presented.
Like it's been said many a time, it's just extras, and nothing more.
Post by: dafunkk12 on April 06, 2003, 08:04:24 PM
Post by: PIAC on April 06, 2003, 10:25:14 PM
You do Nintendo a favor by buying both systems, they do you a favor by hooking you up with UNNECESSARY extras.
It's really a great deal. You don't have to buy a $20 accessory (like a custom controller) just to play the $50 game you bought, no.. the game works as functional as could be. But if you've invested in both systems?It's extra. Extra credit. Bonus. Gift. Score. It's "thanks for buying both systems!"
And my God... you're acting like them including NES Metroid is a BAD thing if you don't have the link. Would you rather have them not include it at all, then nobody could get it?? Because they probably wouldn't have included it if the link feature was never thought up!! I've never seen so many people crave NES Metroid before. GO BUY IT.
Done. How does this not make perfect, agreeable sense, cubed? Refresh your argument while reflecting on what everyone else has added to it. You haven't said much about your side since your initial post.
you missed my point. Metroid Prime costs the same for everyone, just people with an GBA and Link cable get to access some features, where as other people dont, i didn't pay any more for Metroid Prime than anyone just because i own a GBA/Link cable, so dont try and make out i did. also, no need to preach to me about getting a link/gba as i allready have one, i said i can see where he is coming from, doesn't mean i agree
Post by: Termin8Anakin on April 07, 2003, 02:54:50 AM
Post by: Kellk on April 07, 2003, 08:22:54 AM
Or how about this -- I'm upset because I don't have every trophy in SSBM. I shouldn't have to buy Pikmin to be able to access that trophy.
Videogames are one of the few things you can buy that don't allow you to access all content from the outset. In fact, they may be the only things. With books, you can skip to the last page if you want. Some CD's have hidden tracks, but it's easy enough to find them if you look for them. If you buy a car, nobody's gonna stop you from examining the fuel injection assembly. On the other hand, huge sections of games are never consumed simply because the user doesn't have the ability to view them. It's just like locking the engine to your car until you reached 50,000 miles, or maybe not allowing a book's page to be turned until you had read the previous one.
Yet we all accept and live with these limitations, so it seems a bit much to get all upset about bonus features tied to secondary products.
I certainly don't have a solution to this, and frankly, I'm not sure it's even a problem. I'm sympathetic to the argument that since you bought the disk, you should have access to all of the content on it, but the realities of games, and how they are presented, preclude this ability (that is for those games that don't have a full gamut of cheat codes).
Now as for the bonus content tied to the GBA, one might give the argument that the content the GBA unlocks is not entirely contained on the disk itself. Some of that code is tied up within the GBA, or the respective cartridge. So arguably, since the bonus content is not "complete" on the disk, there's no reason to be allowed to access it. An analogy to this might be the PTO on a tractor: by itself, it's just a spinny thing on the back of the chassis that doesn't do anything at all by itself, but combine it with an attachment, like say a thresher, and now you can go hay that field. Certainly, the tractor has the ability to mow that field, but you need to buy the attachment to "unlock" that ability.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2003, 08:33:21 AM
That's a pretty unrealistic request. The GB Player turns your Gamecube into a GBA. Therefore the console can act as either a Cube or a GBA. It's impossible for it to act as both at the same time. Most GBA extras require a second screen which realistically can't be recreated if both the Cube and GBA, as they are in this case, share the same screen and hardware. Argueably they could make a screen inside a screen feature but that would be a lot of unnecessary work for Nintendo to do just to please people who don't want to buy a GBA. You can't expect Nintendo to go out of their way to encourage people to NOT buy their products.
As for this whole insults conversation here's my take on it. Something like "your opinion is flawed because..." is a perfectly acceptable statement in a debate because it's valid to the arguement. The person that the statement is addressed to might take it as an insult but it's not really meant as one so it's not really rude or anything. Saying something like "yeah well you're fat and ugly" isn't an acceptable statement in a debate because it likely has nothing to do with the arguement and it is meant as an insult. I think the problem is that political correctness has run so rampant that people choose to interpret any suggestion that they're wrong as a personal attack. It's incredibly convienent to accuse any criticism as a personal insult and thus believe you are always right.
Post by: ThePerm on April 07, 2003, 08:51:15 AM
tingle doesnt do much for you people. He can bomb things for you like pirate ships or hard to reach places(although once you get bombs he becomes pretty useless) he can also protect your ass with the tingle sheild which makes you look like your a super saiyen(you glow and shit...looks cool.) Anywyas you dont need these features to beat the game....which is why you shouldnt complain. If you did need them then there would be reason, but since the game is still there and completable there is unfounded logic. That which doesn't hurt you isn't viable for complaint.
"I have to say I am seriously pissed at all these new games Nintendo is releasing that only give you certain options if you are connected to a gameboy."
this isnt really unlocking options this is kindof a free bonus for those who have a gameboy...you cant use the tingle tuner without a gameboy. It wouldnt work.....this is more akin to being able to see your stats on a dreamcast vmu then anything...there are no expensive lcd memory cards so they use gba instead.
" bought a gamecube, and I buy games for the gamecube, I should not have to buy a handheld unit in order to fully use what I have already purchased, the stupid tingle tuner and original metroid you can open are perfect examples. have no desire at all to own or play a handheld unit, I barely have enough time to play the freaking console. If nintendo wants to have these things in thier games, so be it, but at least give poeple who dont want to buy a GBA another way to open and use these options."
metroid could be unlockable thorugh the game yes....but meh...like i saidyou could borrow a freidns cable and metroid...no charge to you. also like i said the tingle tuner would be impossible otherwise.
"this is honestly a stunt that Microsoft would pull and everyone would be screaming monopoly. I dont see this as any differant and including IE with the Windows disk."
This is nothing like microsoft giving away IE....certainly if nintendo gave away free metroid with zelda then it would be similar...but their not trying to put anyone out of business with including metroid1 in prime. there is a difference between computer applications where the competition gets decimated because their competitior released software at a better price(free)...this is like buying two packs of cerial and taking the proofs of purchase and sending them in to get a disney bobblehead. There is onyl one metroid..there couldnt be any other so their not competing with anyone...if someone else made a metorid the way they would get rid of them is by suing them for copyright infringement.
"Give me a choice Nintendo, dont force me to buy hardware I simply dont want. " Thier not forcing you to do anything. If they came in your hous and had a gun to your head and said "Buy a Fucking Gameboy Bitch!" Then they would be forcing you. right now they are just giving you choices.
i bet next you'll complain about the gameboy player. "it should have been there to start...i should have had my gamecube with the ability to play gmaeboy games from the start....this is of coarse even though it would be more expensive and nto everyone wants the features...still it should have been there from the start...."
Post by: Bloodworth on April 07, 2003, 09:32:50 AM
