Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: NWR_pap64 on May 03, 2008, 12:03:11 AM
Title: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 03, 2008, 12:03:11 AM
While I haven't played the mode itself I've watched all of the cutscenes and read the storyline, so I have a good idea of what the storyline is about. And it might be telling us how Sakurai truly feels about Nintendo and Miyamoto in general.
Let's look at some of the facts and events that happen during the SSE storyline: -What happens to Mario during the first scenes at the stadium? He gets blasted away. -Who rescues one of the princesses in the same scene? Kirby -What happens to DK? He gets turned into a trophy and doesn't see any action till the end of the game. -Who pretty much becomes one of the leaders against the SSE army? Metaknight -Which character smacks Luigi into oblivion? Dedede -Who devices a plan so that in case Taboo turns everyone into trophies some can survive? Dedede -Which characters are able to "survive" various SSE attacks? Sakurai's characters -Who fights Bowser at the end of SSE? Dedede. -What happens after the fight? Dedede smacks him in the face (even though it was a "snap out of it" gesture, the fact that a Sakurai character smacks a Miyamoto character might symbolize something...)
If you analyze, you come to realize that the majority of the Nintendo characters get shafted one way or another during the mode. The Mario characters are smacked around, turned into trophies or are pretty much taking a backseat to other characters.
Some are even treated surprisingly harsh! Like Pikachu for example. While much worse has happened to him in the anime, the SSE mode is perhaps one of the first times a character is being tortured in an official Nintendo game.
And don't forget Snake. While Sakurai did admit that Sonic was a very last minute addition how come his appearance in SSE was so damn short when Snake pretty much has a role in the story? True, he clips Taboo's wings off, but if his team was able to put in lots of Sonic related trophies, stickers and music why couldn't he shoehorn a scene in the story for Sonic? This would have been the PERFECT opportunity to have Sonic and Mario team up.
While some characters do "get along" in the story on some scenes (like Mario and Kirby at the beginning) the negative scenes leave a far more impression that the positive ones. And again, its hard to deny that Sakurai's characters have bigger roles in the story than some Nintendo and videogame staples.
Of course, like all theories this might be wrong and I'm just full of crap. But its been mentioned that Miyamoto was against the SSE mode, saying that SSB is solely a multiplayer title and that making it single people it might alienate the concept.
Sakurai's relationship with Nintendo seems a tad rocky, and I've read that Miyamoto is VERY demanding and serious about his work. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was a massive clash of egos, especially if Nintendo paid Sakurai to direct the game and gave him the freedom to do whatever he wanted, no matter what Miyamoto said.
Its common knowledge that creators of entertainment sometimes express their feelings through very subtle nods, comments and jokes. For example, filmmakers might sometimes make a joke or a person or event (one example of this is Jerry Senfield's stab at Pixar's John Lasseter in a joke in "Bee Movie"), and might show their true colors.
This, however, might get the creator into trouble if not done right. So they are sometimes hidden within layers of subtlety or are so obscure the only ones that will get it are those in the know.
So, who knows? Maybe Sakurai was injecting some of his own bitterness in his own creation, but made sure to hide it well enough so that the subtext wouldn't be so easily picked up.
I know some of you will say "Oh you are looking deep into this!" or "Sakurai treated all the characters fairly!". But before you make a comment of the sort, think back.
Sakurai left Nintendo to form his own studio. He was pretty much a free man. But Nintendo drafted him into another SSB project. Even if he expresses eagerness towards it, remember. Nintendo announced a new SSB game at E3 05, and named him director, even though he was clueless about it.
How would YOU feel if you were minding your business when someone appears out of nowhere and asks you to do something you weren't ready to do? Even if you get paid by the millions, you would be a tad upset that they mentioned you were in charge of something when you weren't supposed to be doing it in the first place!
Hell, in the Iwata asks interviews Sakurai kept remarking that he wasn't a Nintendo employee anymore.
One other thing, he didn't direct the Kirby games after his departure from Nintendo, right? As you all know, some of them weren't as good as the ones he personally direct. So, wouldn't you be upset if a company took your creation and kept making games about it and they are of poor quality? Once again, Sakurai might be upset at this, but since Kirby belongs to Nintendo he might not be able to do anything about it, except curse about it at night.
So lets not deny that some messages might be hidden in the SSE mode, and they might be saying a lot about Sakurai as a developer and his relationship towards Nintendo.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 03, 2008, 12:31:39 AM
I believe Sakurai realizes he is forever stuck in Miyamoto's shadow and resents it, yes.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: that Baby guy on May 03, 2008, 12:32:05 AM
I've got to say, I agree. I never really mentioned it, but I felt like it could be that way ever since we first saw Kirby be the hero, with Mario blasting away. There should have been an SSE Sonic meets Mario, and Kirby characters shouldn't have factored in as much in the game as they did, since they were the majority characters to actually advance the plot.
Basically, few things happen in the story: Characters meet, there are skirmishes, and the group(s) attempt to do something major against the SSE. Any time something happens that's not a meet-up or a small skirmish, it usually features a prominent Kirby character.
You mentioned Kirby at the beginning, saving a character, but you forgot: Kirby's strike is the one that shoots down the cannon. The one enemy ship is the Halberd, and capturing it could be considered a major subspace arc. If you were to divide the story into three acts, the first act features Kirby as one of the leading roles, the second Meta-Knight, and the third Dedede, maintaining focus on Kirby the entire way through.
And, of course, you mentioned the whole ordeal with Mario characters being treated poorly. Bowser is the SSE idiot, rarely succeeding against anyone, except DK in the beginning, where he was stealing bananas for no reason at all. Peach, while receiving great character portrayal, is like an entirely different person between the Mario universe and this one. Mario gets blown away at the beginning, and then is just another member of the huge, mostly generic anti-subspace army. Luigi receives that stupid scaredy-cat treatment, but at least it fits his SSB appearances before now. Donkey Kong, while rarely featured, receives a great portrayal, for what it's worth. Wario works alright, but like you said, Dedede tops him early on. Yoshi is just sleeping on a log and goes and fights.
Overall, the story was weak. I think that perhaps Sakurai inflated the appearance of his own characters, but I don't know if he intentionally left the Mario characters in poor light, or if that was just an effect of "too many chiefs, not enough indians." The SSE shouldn't have happened that way. What makes it worse, for me, is that there's so much filler in it. I can't see how it could have taken too long to create, aside from the bosses. It was essentially a game where you ran around and fought the same enemies with different backgrounds. I would have preferred to just watch cutscenes and play the boss fights over it, but overall, because Sakurai couldn't use everyone as true heroes, he just stuck his own characters in those positions.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Shift Key on May 03, 2008, 12:37:41 AM
So lets not deny that some messages might be hidden in the SSE mode, and they might be saying a lot about Sakurai as a developer and his relationship towards Nintendo.
EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR TINFOIL HATS
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2008, 01:05:04 AM
I think it's clear that Sakurai gave Kirby, Metaknight and Dedede preferential treatment... but so? It's not to a horrible degree or anything. Furthermore, I don't think it was putting the Mario characters purposely "on the backseat". I do also think Sakurai has a penchant for enjoying to pick some that could be considered obscure. Like Pit has a huge role in the SSE, despite being a very minor character in Nintendo's history... but I have no problem with that, and enjoy the spotlight being shown on characters who are not considered "bread winners".
As for Bowser in particular, since he is mentioned so much, I don't see what the problem is. He takes down DK, captures one of the princesses, and unlike Wario he confronts the heroes numerous times and does not fall victim to them. Plus, he's working with Ganondorf, who should have felt like the greater and more potent force of evil between the two. Personally speaking, I cheered when he back stabbed Bowser in the end too, as it was so perfectly in character for someone who slaughtered their own followers in their quest for the Triforce.
So really, I don't have any problems with bias... my problem with the SSE, in terms of story, is what's not explained. In particular what happened to Metaknight's ship and how and why Dedede is using the badges and to what goal. Both of those needed to be explained, and the former would have been perfect to be represented by a flashback later on to divulge how it was stolen.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 03, 2008, 01:18:52 AM
I agree with shift key. But great analysis Pap.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 03, 2008, 01:52:45 AM
The fact that Sakurai and Nintendo didn't part on the best of terms is common knowledge: Sakurai didn't want to make any more sequels and Nintendo wanted him to make more sequels.
When Miyamoto advised him not to focus too much on the SSE and focus more on the multiplayer, Sakurai basically blew him off. Then, there's the fact that Iwata kept reminding Sakurai that Iwata was his former boss in the interview and Sakurai didn't seem thrilled about being reminded.
I think Sakurai is in the position where he gets the job done so Nintendo had begrudgingly gone to him to make SSB games, I'm sure offering him a pile of cash in the process. I'd also guess, however, that if Nintendo had enough faith in another director, they'd switch to him/her in a heartbeat for the next SSB game.
It's no surprise to me that Sakurai made his characters the heroes of the SSE. He said he didn't care because it's his last SSB game and he meant it.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2008, 02:56:45 AM
It's no surprise to me that Sakurai made his characters the heroes of the SSE. He said he didn't care because it's his last SSB game and he meant it.
Really? Because he implied during his trip here to SF for the GDC that if another was made he would be up for being involved:
"IGN: What would be that one specific feature you wish you could have added?
Masahiro Sakurai: I feel like anything I've considered I'm probably going to think about when -- I mean if -- another game was to come out in the series and so I'd like to keep a lid on that for now. and not disclose anything I've been thinking about there. "
[in reference to another Smash game] "I'm really against the idea of merely creating a sequel that would add modes or increase the number of characters in the roster -- all the sort of things that just simply fatten up the game. I'd like to avoid just doing that if a sequel ever came out."
He certainly didn't imply he wouldn't be coming back.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 03, 2008, 04:37:52 AM
Most people think this would be his last Smash Bros since when he first talked about the game back in 2006, he talked about how he was reluckdant to make Brawl in the first place and how Iwata had to convince him. This was once again restated in the Ask Iwata interview when Sakuria said the same thing to Iwata.
But when you listen to Sakurai's comments at GDC, it sounded like he had a lot of fun making Brawl and would be up for a sequel in the future.
Then, there's the fact that Iwata kept reminding Sakurai that Iwata was his former boss in the interview and Sakurai didn't seem thrilled about being reminded.
You do realize that Sakurai and Iwata where joking with each other. http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/ssbb/vol1_page1.jsp
Sakurai - So this is for the "Iwata Asks" interviews, right?
Iwata - That’s right.
Sakurai - In other words, this is where you, the president of Nintendo, interview the developers working for Nintendo.
Iwata - Yes.
Sakurai - Is it okay for me to be here since I’m not a Nintendo employee?
Iwata - Of course, you’re my former employee, after all.
Sakurai - That’s right! (laughs) So it’s the "Iwata Asks His Former Employee Interview," then.
So in other words, Sakurai and Iwata still get along pretty well. They wouldn't be laughing together if both men had a hatred toward each other.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 03, 2008, 05:07:13 AM
Unless Darth Iwata edited in that "(laughs)" to fool the gaming populace.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Dasmos on May 03, 2008, 05:16:29 AM
I love pap's and S_B's overanalysis of almost every aspect of gaming. It is endlessly enthralling.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 03, 2008, 11:29:09 AM
So in other words, Sakurai and Iwata still get along pretty well. They wouldn't be laughing together if both men had a hatred toward each other.
You do realize that "laughs" could be something as simple as a "heh" noise, right?
And like I said, Miyamoto gave him advice and he was blown off. I'm as dedicated to my creative visions as anyone, but if Shigeru-f*cking-Miyamoto gives me advice, I'm damn well going to listen (and it's advice I feel he should've taken).
Sakurai was sick of sequels and it's not much of a stretch to suggest that he was sick of being in Miyamoto's shadow, either. Miyamoto is internationally revered while Sakurai's name is known mostly to angry SSB fans. All of his characters were the heroes whereas Miyamoto's didn't do a whole lot during the SSE.
I love pap's and S_B's overanalysis of almost every aspect of gaming. It is endlessly enthralling.
I love your tendency of making a quick quip at myself or Pap and then fleeing into the brush. It's so...rabbit-like.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on May 03, 2008, 11:49:02 AM
In Sakurai's defence, I believe the involvement of the characters in the SSE reflects on their personalities and behaviours that they have always had in their respective franchises.
(Beware: I'm about to go into deep analysis...)
Mario: For the most part, Mario is in the thick of the action, doing what he does best: rescuing the damsel in distress that is Princess Peach. Sure, he has a rough start, but his adventures often begin with difficulties. As I recall, early on in Super Mario Galaxy (a game made by Nintendo themselves), Mario is similarly blasted off the planet.
Peach: What can I say? Peach has alway been on the wrong end of the metaphorical gun, so her involvement is historically correct: she gets kidnapped and you gotta go save her. For it to be any other way would just be silly.
Luigi: He started off in Mario's shadow and chances are that it's going to stay like that. Luigi is the definition of the second player, which is why he fails to live up to the standards his brother (the first player). This remains true in Smash Bros.
Bowser: As an enemy, Bowser is more of a "stay back and watch" kind of guy. He tends to keep out of the action and let his minions do his evil bidding for him - this strategy is retained in his plan to lure DK and Diddy. And the incident near the end... well, Bowser is certainly more evil than Dedede, so it's understandable that he isn't so quick to switch sides.
Yoshi: This little dinosaur is a helper by nature. Even in the games that he was the main star of, Yoshi was more of an assistant (he has reunited the babies twice, even though they have nothing to do with him). Just like in Yoshi's Island, he tags along with the others during the SSE, helping out when required.
Wario: Not evil - just greedy. Wario is forever looking out for treasure, hence his enthusiasm to begin with. However, he is beaten by Dedede simply because he has little going on in the brains department.
Perhaps you lot should lay off the conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Mario on May 03, 2008, 12:21:29 PM
It's no secret Sakurai is a giant Kirby fantard and a bit of a knob, but that moment where Kirby saves the day on his star was just pure comedy to me and not serious. It made me smile even though i'm not a big kirby fan.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 03, 2008, 01:47:17 PM
I think Sakurai just wanted to prove that you can pick up chicks on a warp star.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Adrock on May 03, 2008, 03:01:12 PM
Is it really so surprising that someone gives his own characters preferential treatment? On top of that, Sakurai didn't have to accept the project. "I'll get you Miyamoto and Nintendo by working long hours and adding hidden messages in this game mode that only I think is a good idea."
Ultimately, the joke is on Sakurai since the Subspace Emissary sucked.
Quote
"I'm really against the idea of merely creating a sequel that would add modes or increase the number of characters in the roster -- all the sort of things that just simply fatten up the game. I'd like to avoid just doing that if a sequel ever came out."
See, I would agree with him, if he found some other way to make the game better.... but he didn't. There was so little refinement of the core gameplay. I've heard the argument, "What else could they have done?" Well, lots. Use your damn imagination. They definitely could've done better than the footstool jump......
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 03, 2008, 04:18:40 PM
Ultimately, the joke is on Sakurai since the Subspace Emissary sucked.
Well said.
And I also agree that Sakurai's whole spiel about not making sequels is curious, seeing as how the game hasn't changed terribly much.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Mikintosh on May 03, 2008, 05:20:38 PM
Oh. My. God. If we've fallen to the level where we're accusing people of adding the word *laugh* to a transcript for...no good reason, then this has officially gone too far. The pictures accompanying the interview showed them getting along, and if Sakurai had bad blood towards the guy why would he have agreed to the interview? He's not a Nintendo employee and he'd already finished the game he made for them. Geez...
And I didn't have a problem with the Kirby characters getting good facetime, because it was obvious they would. I didn't think the Mario franchise was being sidelined (nor the Zelda franchise which nobody is mentioning); he just wanted to show the different franchises equally, rather than have the company mascot monopolize the proceedings. I mean really, Lucas and the Star Fox characters both had about the same amount of time in SSE as the Kirby gang; these charges of favoritism-concealing-bitterness have no basis other than in your peoples' heads.
And SSE rocked.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 03, 2008, 09:17:36 PM
The pictures accompanying the interview showed them getting along, and if Sakurai had bad blood towards the guy why would he have agreed to the interview? He's not a Nintendo employee and he'd already finished the game he made for them. Geez...
Photoshop.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Dasmos on May 03, 2008, 11:56:31 PM
I love pap's and S_B's overanalysis of almost every aspect of gaming. It is endlessly enthralling.
I love your tendency of making a quick quip at myself or Pap and then fleeing into the brush. It's so...rabbit-like.
The reason I do that is that there is no point to these threads. it's obvious you have discussed this topic at length outside the forum before making this thread. You then make the thread not to discuss and debate whether or not you're right, you make them so you can convince others of your crazy notions. It's funny because people fall for it everytime, the thread ends up turning around and around in a circle with no progress past the first couple of posts.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on May 04, 2008, 01:27:44 AM
Sakurai was sick of sequels and it's not much of a stretch to suggest that he was sick of being in Miyamoto's shadow, either. Miyamoto is internationally revered while Sakurai's name is known mostly to angry SSB fans. All of his characters were the heroes whereas Miyamoto's didn't do a whole lot during the SSE.
Firstly, a lot of people have been in Shigeru Miyamoto's shadow. It's nothing to be ashamed of; he has arguably the greatest imagination this industry has ever seen. Rather than showing resentment, developers would be excited to work with such a creative inspiration. I cannot think of any good reasons for Mashiro Sakurai to be jealous on the scale that you appear to be implying.
Secondly, I disagree with your last statement - if you remember to include all of Miyamoto's creations who are involved (Mario franchise including Kongs and Yoshi, plus the Zelda franchise and the Star Fox franchise + the Ice Climbers and Captains Falcon & Olimar), I think you'll find that his heroes "did a whole lot" more than the Kirby characters.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Adrock on May 04, 2008, 03:08:56 AM
FAIL! Miyamoto didn't create Wario. Gunpei Yokoi, who produced the Mario Land games, is given credit for creating Wario with designs by Hiroji Kiyotake. Learn your factz n00b.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2008, 03:30:17 AM
FAIL! Miyamoto didn't create Wario. Gunpei Yokoi, who produced the Mario Land games, is given credit for creating Wario with designs by Hiroji Kiyotake. Learn your factz n00b.
And Wario was taken out early on in the SSE... *gasp* does this mean Sakurai was making a dig at Yokoi? Does Sakurai's villainy know no bounds!?
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on May 04, 2008, 10:44:26 AM
And Wario was taken out early on in the SSE... *gasp* does this mean Sakurai was making a dig at Yokoi? Does Sakurai's villainy know no bounds!?
I presume you're being sarcastic... again, I feel Pit and Samus (Yokoi's creations) got their fair share of the limelight. As for Mr Game & Watch, he had a minor appearance, but he's already awesome, so that's okay.
@ Adrock: Oh no, a mistake! Maybe I am human. Small error aside, the general point stands. By the way, you spelt 'facts' wrong. :P
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2008, 12:34:58 PM
Care to elaborte on the connection here, or what implies that he is somehow angsty toward Miyamoto?
What part of "Miyamoto suggested Sakurai not focus so much on the single player and Sakurai blew him off" do people keep forgetting?
And the SSE was cute but pointless, and the "story" was silly and incomprehensible, evidenced by the fact that Sakurai made a post on the blog explaining what was ACTUALLY going on the whole time, probably in response to so many complaints.
The reason I do that is that there is no point to these threads. it's obvious you have discussed this topic at length outside the forum before making this thread. You then make the thread not to discuss and debate whether or not you're right, you make them so you can convince others of your crazy notions. It's funny because people fall for it everytime, the thread ends up turning around and around in a circle with no progress past the first couple of posts.
Actually, Pap posted this one on a whim. There wasn't any discussion beforehand, but I agree about how these threads turn out...
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2008, 01:20:40 PM
What part of "Miyamoto suggested Sakurai not focus so much on the single player and Sakurai blew him off" do people keep forgetting?
And what part of that indicates cross feelings between the two? Sakurai and Miyamoto were together when Miyamoto mentioned that he thought there shouldn't be a focus on single player. I don't think disagreement automatically means you somehow secretly dislike the person, especially in the business world when creativity plays such a huge part as it does in the video game industry.
Look, if people want to see Sakurai as someone who hates everyone else whoever made a name for them self in Nintendo, and that SSE is his way of flipping them all the bird, go for it. You can make a metaphor of every action if you please and likely turn it to imply what you want. Personally I just think Sakurai prefers his own characters, as he said at GDC,... end of story, and that there was no deliberate attempt to "sabotage" the others.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 04, 2008, 02:14:41 PM
You know what I find funny and ironic about this? Some of you are saying "Oh you are over analyzing this, you don't know what happened shut up!", when in fact NO ONE knows the whole story. Most of these events happen behind the scenes, and I'm sure the companies keep these things a secret to make sure nothing gets leaked out about a game's development and its team members.
So you are right in that we could be over-analyzing facts and coming to conclusions based on the little info we have, but you could also be wrong. No game development ever goes smoothly and egos are more than likely to clash. So if believing that there is a conspiracy during the game's creation is bad then so is believing that nothing went on behind the scenes.
As for you, Dasmos, its clear you don't give a crap about what I think, which is fine. I didn't expect this to be accepted by everyone. But what I find funny is that you say this...
"You then make the thread not to discuss and debate whether or not you're right, you make them so you can convince others of your crazy notions. It's funny because people fall for it everytime, the thread ends up turning around and around in a circle with no progress past the first couple of posts."
You basically described the internet and the point of message boards.
What do you see every day around here? People trying to make a point about... -Why the Wii doesn't have good games -Why Mario Kart Wii is severely flawed -The issue with hardcore and casual games -Nintendo's online strategy
Hell, just look at Johnny's review of MK Wii. Its already at 2 pages, most of it filled with insults and disagreements aimed at him. And basically, he was trying to make a point about how MK Wii was, in HIS eyes, the weakest MK yet.
So why look at me as if I am the biggest culprit? If you clearly disagree with me fine, I don't care. Its your mind. But don't disguise it as clever put downs that don't add to the thread and instead brings it further down to hell.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2008, 04:01:33 PM
Pap just pwned the hell out of this thread...
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2008, 04:28:52 PM
So if believing that there is a conspiracy during the game's creation is bad then so is believing that nothing went on behind the scenes.
Translation: when you don't have enough information about someone, you should be inclined to assume the worst about them to fill in the blanks?
People can assume the worst or the best out of someone, you clearly pick the former in this case. I just find this whole concept of using the SSE story as proof that he does have an axe to grind with his former coworkers to be akin to clasping at straws to prove a point... especially since we have nothing to indicate there were any hard feelings amongst the crew in the first place.
You mentioned in your opening post too that Miyamoto was against the SSE... that's not true. His comment was made before the mode had even been unveiled, was probably only mentioned on a pitch by Sakurai, and had been a statement in place since the 64 game. Hell, look at the original interview:
"This time we're getting a lot of time to focus on Smash Bros., plenty of time to develop it, so people can expect a very robust single-player game."
Who is saying that? That's Miyamoto. He doesn't sound like he is so rooted and against the concept. In fact, maybe these were words of wisdom left over from Melee, when time was a huge issue, hence Miyamoto saying: "...so I just said well, make [single player] really short so we can focus on multiplayer and get the game done. And we kind of did a little bit of that on the GameCube..."
So really this whole hidden dagger hatred that people are trying to infuse into Sakurai-Miyamoto... I'm just not seeing it from the interviews they have done together.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 04, 2008, 04:38:26 PM
What part of "Miyamoto suggested Sakurai not focus so much on the single player and Sakurai blew him off" do people keep forgetting?
Miyamoto only suggested Sakurai not focus much on the Single Player in the N64 version and that was it. This was because the original was a low budget game that was made in a short time frame and so Sakurai didn't have the resources to work on both the Single and Multi which is why Miyamoto told him to only worry about the Multi since that was the originals whole focus.
Miyamoto never said anything to Sakurai about Melee and Brawl because the series had already been established as a great Multiplayer series and so Sakurai was able to add more Single Player elements because he now had the time and money, not to mention a much bigger team to handle it and the Multiplayer at the same time.
Plus how many times does it need to be said that most of Brawl IS Multiplayer. The Subspace Emissary which you all complain about as the Single Player mode, allows for Multiplayer. Plus you have Multiplayer Event Modes, Break the Target, Multi-Man Brawl, Home Run Contest, and Boss Battle Mode. The only time you can't play in Multiplayer are Classic and All-Star Mode, that's it. In the end over 90% of Brawls modes are Multiplayer, and it contains more Multiplayer modes then any of the previous games.
Plus there's also the fact that Brawl is a much better balanced game then Melee. Usually fighting games that add more characters because more unbalanced, but the fact that Brawl has more characters then Melee and ends up much better balanced, shows that Sakurai spent a sh!t load of time working on just the Multiplayer alone.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2008, 04:45:52 PM
Miyamoto only suggested Sakurai not focus much on the Single Player in the N64 version and that was it.
Actually the interview indicates that the comment was first made for the 64 version, but since he later mentions the Gamecube one it seems to indicate that, at the very least, he made the same advice in reference to Melee (which was apt since we all know the time frame on that was very tight).
The only time you can't play in Multiplayer are Classic and All-Star Mode, that's it. In the end over 90% of Brawls modes are Multiplayer, and it contains more Multiplayer modes then any of the previous games.
Very, very true, and people seem to be overlooking this. People so far have assumed Miyamoto is against the SSE... but his reference was to single player and single player only. As Luigi Dude mentions, Brawl is so jam packed with co-op opportunities that... well maybe Sakurai was actually following Miyamoto's advice in trying to make it as multiplayer focused as possible (the general assumption so far is that multiplayer can only be in reference to stock/time matches)?
Plus there's also the fact that Brawl is a much better balanced game then Melee. Usually fighting games that add more characters because more unbalanced, but the fact that Brawl has more characters then Melee and ends up much better balanced, shows that Sakurai spent a sh!t load of time working on just the Multiplayer alone.
Preach it. Melee was my favorite game of all time... but Brawl has more than surpassed it thanks to the excellent balance it has. Yes the Final Smashes are lacking in this area, but it's so, so much better balanced then either the 64 or Melee was that I'm really enjoying it.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Mikintosh on May 04, 2008, 04:49:27 PM
The pictures accompanying the interview showed them getting along, and if Sakurai had bad blood towards the guy why would he have agreed to the interview? He's not a Nintendo employee and he'd already finished the game he made for them. Geez...
Photoshop.
To what end? For chrissakes, you people are turning this into an IMDB message board, and there can be no greater shame.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 04, 2008, 06:04:13 PM
Let's drop another log on this fire...
I can think of few characters Nintendo would've probably liked to have in SSBB than Snake.
Let's face it, Hideo Kojima has only been surpassed in his Nintendo-bashing by Chris Hecker said the Wii was two Gamecubes duct taped together, and Kojima's not too far behind him.
Between him calling the Gamecube a "Purple handbag" last gen and saying the Wii was "cable TV" compared to the PS3 which is a "theatre experience", then factor in the complete commercial failure of MGS:TS, I can't imagine Nintendo has much love for the bastard, if any.
Yet there's Snake, snapping the necks of beloved Nintendo characters across the board. My guess is that Sakurai had total creative freedom as one of the stipulations when it came to developing the game, hence why his little buddy Kojima could ask to put Snake in and it wouldn't be an issue.
Then, there's the fact that most of the MGS content in the game can't be found on Nintendo hardware, including the fact that Snake's isn't even the Snake from MGS:TS but from MGS2. It's like he went out of his way to put as much content not accessible on a Nintendo platform as possible.
Now, this is the part where speculation has to inevitably enter the equation. Do I KNOW that Miyamoto is miffed that Snake is breaking the necks of his characters in households all over the world (except Europe, but that's because I suspect Sakurai hates Europe for having so many languages)? No, but it's not exactly a stretch to assume he would be. Why wouldn't he be? Miyamoto has always shied away from the idea of M rated games and probably finds them horribly distasteful.
In his shoes, I wouldn't be happy, especially when the character doing this to MY characters was created by some asshole who can't find enough bad things to say about my company.
So yeah, speculation, but far from unreasonable.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 04, 2008, 06:32:43 PM
My guess is that Sakurai had total creative freedom as one of the stipulations when it came to developing the game, hence why his little buddy Kojima could ask to put Snake in and it wouldn't be an issue.
Why would Nintendo take issue with it, though? Let's look at how it all played out due to Snake being in there: Brawl was covered in an exclusively Playstation magazine, Snake was a almost "hero" of the whole Wii60 movement online and he has been readily featured in advertisements (Bestbuy used him and Pikachu as the star focus of theirs).
They gained a lot, and the PS2 era is over, we are in the next generation and if you can swoon over some fans of a rival by referencing older software, why not? The only questionable thing, in the minds of Nintendo as I see it, would be the stuff related to MGS4, which was the song and the Metal Gear. Otherwise, why not? They got a lot of press out of his inclusion, and probably turned heads toward the series who might have shied away before. Given the blockbuster performance of the game, and that it's likely to pass Melee in no time, I don't think Nintendo has any regrets, regardless of if his moves could be perceived as violent such as his grab.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Adrock on May 04, 2008, 08:17:22 PM
Miyamoto never said anything to Sakurai about Melee...
I thought Sakurai had to practically beg Miyamoto to allow him to include the adventure mode in Melee. I'm not saying you're wrong. Rather, I remember reading an interview years ago where Sakarai stated that Miyamoto wanted him to focus on multplayer. That would partially explain why the Adventure Mode in Melee felt so incomplete.
Let's face it, Hideo Kojima has only been surpassed in his Nintendo-bashing by Chris Hecker said the Wii was two Gamecubes duct taped together, and Kojima's not too far behind him.
Really? More than Mark Rein.... or rather everyone from Epic Games except CliffyB?
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Shift Key on May 04, 2008, 10:02:58 PM
So if believing that there is a conspiracy during the game's creation is bad then so is believing that nothing went on behind the scenes.
You seem to be painting this as Sakurai undermining Nintendo's characters and point to some interviews (which can be interpreted in different ways) and past events (which is exactly that, the past) and parts of the single-player mode of the finished product.
Some of us feel that this is a waste of time, because in the end all you are doing is handwaving rather than producing a concrete proof, because, as you said, "no-one knows the whole story".
So why look at me as if I am the biggest culprit? If you clearly disagree with me fine, I don't care. Its your mind. But don't disguise it as clever put downs that don't add to the thread and instead brings it further down to hell.
Grow a pair.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 04, 2008, 10:45:53 PM
The pictures accompanying the interview showed them getting along, and if Sakurai had bad blood towards the guy why would he have agreed to the interview? He's not a Nintendo employee and he'd already finished the game he made for them. Geez...
Photoshop.
To what end? For chrissakes, you people are turning this into an IMDB message board, and there can be no greater shame.
Your sarcasm detector is clearly defective. Relax.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 05, 2008, 12:18:37 AM
omg <3 thread
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2008, 12:39:32 AM
Really? More than Mark Rein.... or rather everyone from Epic Games except CliffyB?
How about people who don't make a living selling engines that won't run on the Wii?
There's no reason Kojima should be antagonizing it. Even if he thinks the PS3 is more capable, you can say that without insulting the console, something Kojima has chosen not to do. Plus, he lambasted the GC, despite the fact that it was more powerful than his console of choice, the PS2.
As for Snake and the attention he garnered, do you really think Nintendo was even the least bit concerned for the sales of SSBB? Besides, I'm sure what attention Snake grabbed was a whisper on the scream of the attention Sonic garnered.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Dasmos on May 05, 2008, 12:48:48 AM
So why look at me as if I am the biggest culprit? If you clearly disagree with me fine, I don't care. Its your mind. But don't disguise it as clever put downs that don't add to the thread and instead brings it further down to hell.
I was trying to send this thread to hell. It's horrible. The funny thing is I don't have a problem with threads like Johnny's review thread, though I may disagree with him it's an opinion.
This isn't an opinion, this is trying to pass off mindless speculation as fact. You're trying to find things inbetween the lines. You're over-analysing everything, and I might add you've never played the game. The amounts of times I've seen you come into a thread and say something along the lines "While I have not played the game, here is my giant analysis of everything from my limited perspective."
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Dasmos on May 05, 2008, 12:55:54 AM
Really? More than Mark Rein.... or rather everyone from Epic Games except CliffyB?
How about people who don't make a living selling engines that won't run on the Wii?
There's no reason Kojima should be antagonizing it. Even if he thinks the PS3 is more capable, you can say that without insulting the console, something Kojima has chosen not to do. Plus, he lambasted the GC, despite the fact that it was more powerful than his console of choice, the PS2.
Oh LOL, I thought S_B was being sarcastic in his post about Kojima, but nope. You guys never cease to amaze.
Quote
As for Snake and the attention he garnered, do you really think Nintendo was even the least bit concerned for the sales of SSBB? Besides, I'm sure what attention Snake grabbed was a whisper on the scream of the attention Sonic garnered.
Perhaps they attract different audiences? Maybe. Didn't even cross your mind, I bet. I know there are many people who would have never even glanced at the game without a mention of Snake. Anyway Sonic is a joke now, anyone who bought the game because Sonic is in it clearly has a world of problems.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Adrock on May 05, 2008, 01:25:44 AM
Oh LOL, I thought S_B was being sarcastic in his post about Kojima, but nope. You guys never cease to amaze.
That was the impression I got. Especially when he began his post with, "Let's drop another log on this fire..." I was merely pointing out in passing that Mark Rein was a more obvious choice when it comes to Wii bashing.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on May 05, 2008, 01:50:10 AM
Now, this is the part where speculation has to inevitably enter the equation. Do I KNOW that Miyamoto is miffed that Snake is breaking the necks of his characters in households all over the world?
Oh please, not this again. I figured you would stop beating that dead horse after the last failure of a thread you made. I cannot stress this enough: the gameplay in SSBB is considered to be Cartoon Violence because attacks are portrayed in a unrealistic and often comedic fashion. This here is no different: Firstly, the move Snake performs isn't even a neck snap. Secondly, it all happens extremely fast (the clip you showed earlier was slowed down to about a fifth of the actual speed. Lastly, the character will be straight back on his feet - not dissimilar to many other fighting games.
As for Snake and the attention he garnered, do you really think Nintendo was even the least bit concerned for the sales of SSBB? Besides, I'm sure what attention Snake grabbed was a whisper on the scream of the attention Sonic garnered.
You are missing the point here. Of course they were never worried about Brawl's sales? But Nintendo are a trans-national corporation; they can never sell too much. They want as many consumers for their product as possible, so it makes perfect sense to have lots of different selling points.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Darkheart on May 05, 2008, 08:20:12 AM
You guys are looking way too hard into a video game. . . I heard that if you play all the SSE cut scenes backwards you can hear Sakurai swearing in Russian at children claiming Kirby is their god.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 05, 2008, 11:17:47 AM
Perhaps they attract different audiences? Maybe. Didn't even cross your mind, I bet.
By jove! Dasmos figured it out: Nintendo is trying to market to...THE SONY DEFENSE FORCE! Layton's apprentice saves the day!
Or maybe Snake was in the game because Kojima and Sakurai are friends...
Besides, if they're going to be pulling M rated characters into the game to attract a bigger crowd, they should just toss Master Chief in there and be done with it (not saying he's a good character, mind you, just far more popular and less emo than Snake).
That was the impression I got. Especially when he began his post with, "Let's drop another log on this fire..." I was merely pointing out in passing that Mark Rein was a more obvious choice when it comes to Wii bashing.
And I was pointing out that he makes his living selling products that don't work on Wii so his dung flinging and chest beating is natural, but Kojima is...well, a fruit bat. I've heard him say good things about the Wii as well, if I recall. I think it depends upon whether or not they're interviewing him about MGS4 and he thinks someone from Sony might be watching (I wouldn't be surprised if the camera panned down during one of these interviews to reveal that Kojima is actually in a pair of Sony-branded shackles).
Maybe he's a closet Nintendo fan or something. Why else would he beg for Snake to be in a SSB game?
And for the record, in this thread we've managed to get everyone pissed at me again, lulled Dasmos into a false sense of security and taken shots at Sakurai repeatedly.
Love this thread? I want to take it behind the bleachers and get it pregnant. ;)
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Mario on May 05, 2008, 12:52:49 PM
I'm still expecting some kind of MGS Wii announcement. It just has to all make sense in the end.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2008, 12:56:29 PM
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 05, 2008, 01:35:12 PM
Yeah my hopes for Brawl used to be up, then it became this gen's Mario Sunshine.
Iwata Time is KART TIME, oh yeah
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: LuigiHann on May 05, 2008, 04:07:54 PM
This would be an enjoyable thread and a fun discussion if people weren't being all "serious business" about it.
What I want to know, is why Kirby, Dedede, and Wario can eat items, but Yoshi can't.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2008, 04:16:00 PM
I want to know why the Elite Beat Agents aren't playable.
...I mean, I want to know why none of the "eating" attack characters can't eat Olimar's Pikmin. It would've been hilarious to watch Wario eat a Pikmin and the ghost to come out of him.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: LuigiHann on May 05, 2008, 04:20:55 PM
I think it's funny, I love the EBA as much as anybody, but I never had any delusion that they'd be considered a candidate for playable character. Maybe in the next Smash, assuming the EBA have a couple more games under their belt by then.
Eating Pikmin would be weird. I also noticed that you (and Munchlax) can never eat Pokeballs.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2008, 04:30:16 PM
I'm largely kidding about the EBA, though why they're not an AT is beyond me.
But seriously, the whole point of Pikmin is that they get eaten. Why shouldn't the "eating" characters be able to do just that?
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 05, 2008, 05:35:42 PM
While we are fielding random questions related to the choices made, I still really want to know why Mewtwo was left on the cutting room floor for Brawl. It's at least comforting for me to know that he was heavily considered, along with Roy going by the data on the disc... but why was he left out of the game? He played very different from Lucario, aside from their projectile, so I'm still a little miffed that he was cut when he was not a clone.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 05, 2008, 05:49:57 PM
You'd have thought that they'd have stopped at two space furries and not gone on to the 3rd until they had M2 back in, I know.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Adrock on May 05, 2008, 07:42:24 PM
And I was pointing out that he makes his living selling products that don't work on Wii so his dung flinging and chest beating is natural, but Kojima is...well, a fruit bat. I've heard him say good things about the Wii as well, if I recall.
Well, I think either way, you have people who have never/rarely supported Nintendo platforms. That said, do their opinions really matter? Shouldn't they just, you know, shut up? And shouldn't Nintendo fans, you know, not care what they have to say because they haven't supported Nintendo in the past? I suppose you could argue that since Snake was in Brawl, Kojima somehow owes Nintendo, but Nintendo didn't have to say yes. Nintendo could've told Kojima to F-off and they'd be in the same exact position that they've always been in: with little to no support from Kojima and his team. I guess this really just shows that Nintendo is above childish name-calling and bashing. That or they got something in return that they haven't announced.
I'm trying to start a debate or anything, I'm just saying.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Mikintosh on May 05, 2008, 07:47:58 PM
While we are fielding random questions related to the choices made, I still really want to know why Mewtwo was left on the cutting room floor for Brawl. It's at least comforting for me to know that he was heavily considered, along with Roy going by the data on the disc... but why was he left out of the game? He played very different from Lucario, aside from their projectile, so I'm still a little miffed that he was cut when he was not a clone.
If by "different" you mean "worse than Lucario in every respect" than you're right.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 05, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
If by "different" you mean "worse than Lucario in every respect" than you're right.
Ah ha, well ummm... his throws were much better. Yeah the problem with Mewtwo in Brawl was that he was incredibly weak. He just wasn't balanced very well at all. I don't think that should be grounds for throwing him out, though. I would have loved to see a balanced Mewtwo return to Brawl, and would have liked to see a neat telekinetic Final Smash akin to his rampage in Mewtwo Strikes Back, but Say-La-Vee.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Mikintosh on May 05, 2008, 08:01:28 PM
If by "different" you mean "worse than Lucario in every respect" than you're right.
Ah ha, well ummm... his throws were much better. Yeah the problem with Mewtwo in Brawl was that he was incredibly weak. He just wasn't balanced very well at all. I don't think that should be grounds for throwing him out, though. I would have loved to see a balanced Mewtwo return to Brawl, and would have liked to see a neat telekinetic Final Smash akin to his rampage in Mewtwo Strikes Back, but Say-La-Vee.
Well I'm a bigger fan of the Kanto Pokemon then the later ones (hell, I saw the first movie opening weekend), but having him in the game just because would've defeated the purpose of taking out Dr. Mario, Roy, etc.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 05, 2008, 08:08:48 PM
Well I'm a bigger fan of the Kanto Pokemon then the later ones (hell, I saw the first movie opening weekend), but having him in the game just because would've defeated the purpose of taking out Dr. Mario, Roy, etc.
I disagree, since all of the others taken out were clones. Mewtwo stands out for being the only "original" that got cut.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Dasmos on May 05, 2008, 10:26:28 PM
Perhaps they attract different audiences? Maybe. Didn't even cross your mind, I bet.
By jove! Dasmos figured it out: Nintendo is trying to market to...THE SONY DEFENSE FORCE! Layton's apprentice saves the day!
Or maybe Snake was in the game because Kojima and Sakurai are friends...
Besides, if they're going to be pulling M rated characters into the game to attract a bigger crowd, they should just toss Master Chief in there and be done with it (not saying he's a good character, mind you, just far more popular and less emo than Snake).
LOL! S_B edited his comment with much more biting content than before. Trust me, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 06, 2008, 01:41:00 AM
Ah ha, well ummm... his throws were much better. Yeah the problem with Mewtwo in Brawl was that he was incredibly weak. He just wasn't balanced very well at all. I don't think that should be grounds for throwing him out, though. I would have loved to see a balanced Mewtwo return to Brawl, and would have liked to see a neat telekinetic Final Smash akin to his rampage in Mewtwo Strikes Back, but Say-La-Vee.
I would've loved to see a balanced, powerful Mushu in Brawl as well. Even my friends who don't believe in tiers knew he was bottom tier in Melee, heh.
Speaking of which, BRAWL BALANCE, FTL...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ-AKKso_Po
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: LuigiHann on May 06, 2008, 03:34:23 AM
I think if someone tried to "chaingrab" me when playing Brawl, I'd be justified in punching them in real life. That's just good, old-fashioned annoying.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 06, 2008, 11:23:13 PM
::Looks at thread and what do I see::
-Aussies being their same unlikeable, arrogant selves -Pap getting smeared and insulted for stating an opinion -Mikintosh being his same old obnoxious fanboi self
Well that was fun. I'm leaving now.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 07, 2008, 12:23:27 AM
Interestingly a google search of the terms 'Australians and likeable' results in 779,000 hits while a search of 'Americans and likeable' only gets 621,000. I can make sweeping statements too.
Edit: We do have you beat in the arrogance stakes though. 1.85 million to 1.81 million. :o
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Arbok on May 07, 2008, 01:21:05 AM
-Pap getting smeared and insulted for stating an opinion
Oh, the opinion card. Where people are expected to respect the thoughts of others by suppressing their own opinion...
Anyway, I don't see anyone insulting pap. There was a comment about him being too analytical of games, which he reiterated with a "shut up" at the end... but it was pretty civil up to that point.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Mikintosh on May 07, 2008, 01:46:04 PM
And I like how not entertaining conspiracy theories makes me a "fanboi". Why, I must be on Nintendo payroll to be spewing such crazyness!
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 07, 2008, 02:20:05 PM
-Pap getting smeared and insulted for stating an opinion
Oh, the opinion card. Where people are expected to respect the thoughts of others by suppressing their own opinion...
Anyway, I don't see anyone insulting pap. There was a comment about him being too analytical of games, which he reiterated with a "shut up" at the end... but it was pretty civil up to that point.
::reads Dasmos's posts and a couple others:: No I think it is more about smearing than stating a opinion. I have ZERO problem with your responses. I'd take Mikintosh seriously if he hadn't been such an ardent defender of Smash Brother's perfection.
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 07, 2008, 08:25:16 PM
-Pap getting smeared and insulted for stating an opinion
Oh, the opinion card. Where people are expected to respect the thoughts of others by suppressing their own opinion...
Anyway, I don't see anyone insulting pap. There was a comment about him being too analytical of games, which he reiterated with a "shut up" at the end... but it was pretty civil up to that point.
Since when has a NWR discussion (much less a Brawl discussion) ever been civil?
And people bash ME for posting exaggerated facts and opinions... :p
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: LuigiHann on May 07, 2008, 08:38:16 PM
-Pap getting smeared and insulted for stating an opinion
Oh, the opinion card. Where people are expected to respect the thoughts of others by suppressing their own opinion...
Anyway, I don't see anyone insulting pap. There was a comment about him being too analytical of games, which he reiterated with a "shut up" at the end... but it was pretty civil up to that point.
::reads Dasmos's posts and a couple others:: No I think it is more about smearing than stating a opinion. I have ZERO problem with your responses. I'd take Mikintosh seriously if he hadn't been such an ardent defender of Smash Brother's perfection.
I never said Brawl was perfect, far from it, and just because I thought that most of the attacks around here were nitpicking or (in my opinion) ridiculous doesn't make me blind to them. Look, the term "fanboy" is stupid enough; I don't think disagreeing with a consensus of ten or so people makes me one.
The problem with message boards are that discussion that would've lasted for 15 minutes on the schoolyard now stretch on for weeks...
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: vudu on May 20, 2008, 02:46:52 PM
I want to know why none of the "eating" attack characters can't eat Olimar's Pikmin. It would've been hilarious to watch Wario eat a Pikmin and the ghost to come out of him.
Hilarious, yes. But also very, very annoying when you're trying to eat Olimar, but you instead grab a Pikmin, only to get smashed a second later. It probably isn't in there because it would make grabbing Olimar too difficult, giving him an unfair advantage.
(Yes, I realize this thread is old; I'm just now getting around to reading it.)
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: firetools on July 08, 2008, 12:40:08 AM
yeah, howcome solid snake waz in but not the arbiter or master chief =( =( =(
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 08, 2008, 12:47:44 AM
N00B ALART
Title: Re: The SSE mode: Sakurai's TRUE feelings? (SPOILERS!)
Post by: nickmitch on July 08, 2008, 07:14:43 PM
