Post by: theaveng on March 31, 2003, 05:38:03 AM
Beautiful surround sound.
So why do I find the Wind Waker to be... well, boring. Besides the extremely-long and uninteresting sea voyages, I'm finding Wind Waker to be a rather un-interesting game. I'm not sure why? I really enjoyed Ocarina of Time. The story was compelling, the characters interesting, the dungeons fun (although the water temple got tedious). But not so with Wind Waker upto Dungeon #3. I hope the game gets better later.
Troy (Sidles away)
Post by: Link on March 31, 2003, 07:16:11 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on March 31, 2003, 11:04:34 AM
You have no freaking sense of adventure!
Post by: theaveng on March 31, 2003, 12:41:42 PM
Oh well, I'll keep plowing on to the end. I don't want to waste my $25.
Post by: VideoGamerX on March 31, 2003, 12:54:11 PM
I found Ocarina of Time terribly tedious as a whole. I'm finding I like that game less and less as I play Wind Waker. OoT tends to just give me headaches (namely because of Navi and the ever so constant reminder that I need to go on to the next Hell-errr.. I mean dungeon). I can't believe how tortureous it can be to play OoT when you don't want to force yourself to submit to another 2-4 hour grueling adventure through a 5 mile long dungeon. I like the challenge of OoT, but Navi makes it a job and the world in OoT is disappointing. The fishing at lake Hylia is one of my favorites, but everything else the world offers is not quite as filling as I wanted out of Hyrule. On top of that, the OoT sound track as a whole is rather subpar compared to LttP's, the bosses are less fantastic, too. In fact, I found most of OoT's story to be repulsive to a certain point, but now that's not quite as true, especially with Wind Waker to compliment it. I like the set as a whole a lot better.
I don't want to be misunderstood in how I feel about OoT, but I definitely think Wind Waker has a lot better feel to it. In my opinion, OoT is boring compared to Wind Waker. I can definitely see why some people like Majora's Mask more (having not played MM myself to be honest) when they claim OoT simply didn't have enough side quests. That's just it, fans of stressful frustrating dungeons flock to Ocarina of Time, everyone else looking for a good adventure-roleplaying experience pick up the other Zelda games. I haven't felt this good about a Zelda game since a Link to the Past, and to be quite frank, if LttP had consisted of nothing but the Ice dungeon, the haunted forest dungeon, and the other frustrating parts, I would have liked it less. Wind Waker has several challenges that are quite perplexing. On top of that, Wind Waker just feels like a world of adventure because you never know what's over the next wave. Just to be a little curious (and push the envelope), have you spent time in town both during the day and at night? Have you taken the time to venture to certain places during different phases of the moon? Also pay attention to the weather in certain places. There are rewards for paying attention to the world as it evolves around you.
Yeah, keep plowing through to the end. You'll have wasted your money if that's all you do.
Post by: Grey Ninja on March 31, 2003, 01:39:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
Well I must have *some* sense of adventure, else I would not have enjoyed Ocarina. And yeah, I feel "compelled" to see what comes next in the game, but when I get there I'm disappointed. The first 2 dungeons weren't terribly exciting and the bosses ridiculously easy to beat. In comparison, Ocarina's bosses all killed me at least once (Some... so many times I was ready to smash the cart with a hammer!).
Oh well, I'll keep plowing on to the end. I don't want to waste my $25.
Well, what's really engrossing me is sailing into uncharted waters, digging up buried treasure (figuratively speaking), collecting pictographs, dueling with enemies, and finishing the odd dungeon. I am totally into this game, but I have done very little plotwise to tell the truth. I have just got the bow and that's about as far as I am. You have almost caught up to me by now.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on March 31, 2003, 03:00:48 PM
Quote
I really don't know what to say, Theaveng. You've been sort of a downer the past month or so, so I want to respond but I'm not sure what to say. I've found Wind Waker to be a lot of fun.
He has always been that way. I am nearly convinced he is one of the more patient, and cunning PS2 fanboys
But seriously, don't worry about the long ocean voyages, this can be alleviated significantly, and you're not too far from being able to do this.
I do agree that the monsters are fairly easy. The bosses are difficult, until you figure out the trick to beating them(I don't ever listen to the hints from Tetra's stone), then they are about medium difficulty. Aside from the difficulty level I can't think of anything I dislike, if I could wish for one thing, it would be be: having the option of "hard", or "extra hard" difficulty level. To be perfectly honest I think EVERY game should have different difficulty levels, and the should range from pathetically easy, to so hard it makes you want to rip your hair out.
With all that said, I LOVE Wind Waker, it is my new favorite game of the next-gen consoles.
Also with that said, We should all contact Nintendo, and plead for an option for an insane difficulty option in all of it's upcoming games.
Post by: Grey Ninja on March 31, 2003, 03:09:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Koopa TroopaQuote
I really don't know what to say, Theaveng. You've been sort of a downer the past month or so, so I want to respond but I'm not sure what to say. I've found Wind Waker to be a lot of fun.
He has always been that way. I am nearly convinced he is one of the more patient, and cunning PS2 fanboys
Ah, kind of like a Pokemon using Bide... just saving up his power for one day when he nukes us ALL! RUN RUN RUN!!!! HE'S COMING!!!
Post by: Rellik on March 31, 2003, 03:30:47 PM
Why does it nearly never say anything to me? Only a couple times in the forbidden forest, when I was trying to do something like lifting the stone heads before I had the *item* I needed. It never gave me hints on any bosses or anything...
Oh well.
Please don't say anything about theaveng... that's just stupid. Maybe it's true, but it's just downright sad to be suspecting people like that. Sure, he's a regular at some XBox forums, but that doesn't mean he is one of those anti-GC fanboys who are bent on destruction and think it's really funny to act like an as$-hole. Maybe he just doesn't like Wind Waker?
Personally, I found everything so far completely enthralling. Well, not everything... the Earth Temple is kind of making me not really too excited about the prospect of getting into the Wind Temple. And I think that Korok side quest with the 20 minutes thing is really annoying... what do you get for that anyway? And another thing, I hate it when I open a chest and it's a Treasure Map... I mean, who really cares?! Yay, 200 rupees... except harder to find. I still think that in the next Zelda games there should be a large variety of items, like in RPG's... you know, like special bows that cut the magic used in half, spells that cause double damage for a limited amount of time, different kinds of armor, defensive rings, et cetera. Pretty much everything but the sword... that should stay with the traditional 4 levels.
But other than that, I've just got to say, WOW. I mean, this incorporates the human aspect of Majora's Mask with the vastness of OoT's world (hey, it felt vast to me) and also provides something 100% fresh. I think it just takes some imagination... plus, alot of people just expect something to be bad automatically when everyone is hyped about it, and go into it feeling hyped about it, but subconsciously are preparing to be disapointed, whether they actually like it or not. Still, once again, theaveng may just not like the game.
Theaveng, I still think you should put some more effort into liking this game. Saying this game is boring is like saying Metroid Prime doesn't have a plot. You have to find fun where you can, and get involved; otherwise you'll only see the shell, which is a linear game where you sail from one dungeon to the other. This is, really, just a shell; the dungeons and all that stuff makes up like 10% of the game as a whole (not length-wise, cuz I dont know that, but emphasis-wise) and when combined in that proportion the dungeons really shine, plus all the other stuff is worth it.
Post by: couchmonkey on March 31, 2003, 03:34:29 PM
Personally, I am slightly disappointed in the game's challenge level, but I'm loving it so much I don't care.
Post by: VideoGamerX on March 31, 2003, 05:15:00 PM
It's his opinion on this one game, but it just seems a bit unexpected.
As for the point brought up about the treasure chests, I feel the same way. I really enjoy searching for the treasures, I just wish there was more variety, rarity, and usefulness to them. I mean, sure, the treasure chests are a good way to make some money when you need it (allbeit they're pretty much out of the way and useless). The rupees are simply not enticing enough. I do it for pure thrill of clearing them out, though. I don't want this to venture any further into RPG'dom with special magic reducing crossbows and flaming swords of Visceroth, but some rare and possibly useful items would be nice. Something to attain that isn't so ordinary. I mean, even extra tacky yet rare and special jewelry. Something to collect. Something to sell when you really need cash.
The super hidden treasures just aren't typical to the Zelda series unless it's heart pieces, 200 rupees, or a select item or two.
Really, I don't like uncovering a secret underground chamber that involves solving puzzles, fighting monster, and junk that leads me to a chest that.... SURPRISE! Has has something pretty cheap and worthless in it. Just how I feel...
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 31, 2003, 05:27:12 PM
Post by: RahXephon on March 31, 2003, 05:28:24 PM
Post by: Marcus Arillius on March 31, 2003, 06:44:17 PM
Post by: Koopa Troopa on March 31, 2003, 09:12:18 PM
Quote
Ah, kind of like a Pokemon using Bide... just saving up his power for one day when he nukes us ALL! RUN RUN RUN!!!! HE'S COMING!!!
LoL!
Quote
Please don't say anything about theaveng... that's just stupid. Maybe it's true, but it's just downright sad to be suspecting people like that. Sure, he's a regular at some XBox forums, but that doesn't mean he is one of those anti-GC fanboys who are bent on destruction and think it's really funny to act like an as$-hole. Maybe he just doesn't like Wind Waker?
This must be directed towards me. All I can say is "Right...". I lied, here comes more...
First of all my comment was in good fun, hence the friendly emoticon at the end. I also went on to say the phrase "But seriously" which should have tipped you off. You obviously didn't feel the need to read much, or perhaps it just didn't sink in.
I can also tell from your post that you don't have a clue. TheAveng doesn't own an XBox (last I checked), so I doubt his attending any XBox forums has anything to do with XBox fanboyism, infact he strikes me as anti-XBox. What I said was "PS2 fanboy", and had I been serious, I said it in a most complimentary way, citing him as one of the more refined PS2 fanboys.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 01, 2003, 01:44:39 AM
I loved WW at first, but I too have grown bored of it already, similar to what happened with Metroid, I just am sick of reading non stop.
Maybe it is my tastes that have changed, I dont know for sure, but I havent been blown away by a nintendo game in a while, Sigh.
Post by: theaveng on April 01, 2003, 07:14:21 AM
QuoteThe idea of "exploring" has no appeal to me. It's like the pointless collection fests in Starfox Adventures. Also if I did explore, I'd rather hop in my car and explore the real world rather than Zelda's fantasy world.
Originally posted by: VideoGamerX
I'm having a lot of fun just on Windfall Island seeing what all I can discover. Have you pulled away from the main quest and focused on the world itself?
I prefer a "true" RPG experience where the emphasis is on battles and survival... rather than Zelda's emphasis on puzzles/exploration... neither of which appeal to me. I like the emphasis on speed and action that a game like Kingdom Hearts would have.
Troy (Sidles away)
Post by: theaveng on April 01, 2003, 07:14:23 AM
100 times = money
300 times = lots of money
500 times = heart piece
??? times = ?????
What comes next? Does he keep giving you stuff?
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 01, 2003, 11:47:22 AM
I agree with you, theaveng. I see where you're coming from. I'm a bit more of a diverse gamer (fairly imaginative) in that I like fast-paced games as much as simulators (I'm a SimCity fan... just to give an example of slow, unactive, somewhat pointless gameplay that I enjoy).
I'm the same way about some things. Like with Super Mario Sunshihne, I really liked parts of the game for being very enjoyable, but the overall experience was not what I wanted from a Super Mario "Anything". They missed the boat on a Mario game with that title overall because I don't find it creative or fun to replay the same old levels over and over again especially when it comes to "Find all 20 red coins!" Bah... Give me the level-based platformer where I continue to advance toward Bowser and saving the world.
But here is the misconception... Ocarina of Time played like that with the dungeon-after-dungeon rampage toward Gannon. I hate that game right now. There seems to be a neverending urgency for me to enter the next headache. The dungeon design is disappointing to me because I wanted "A Link to the Past" style dungeons and bosses. That's my fault as much as it's your (theaveng's) fault for wanting OoT style gameplay in the new Zelda. I understand and accept this, and I realize I'm exaggerating what's wrong with OoT. I really like what OoT does right, but there's enough in the game that I just don't like that it's going to rank near the bottom of my favorite Zelda's. Namely, the I wanted to do in Ocarina of Time was explore and waste some time playing around and discovering things. The Skultchulla quest is a nice thing to have, the masks, and there's obviously some good hidden chambers and caves, but... I have this neverending desire to call Navi out into the open and take a huge swing at her with my sword.
Maybe that would help things...
But as I was saying, about the misconception, is that the Legend of Zelda is not a fast-paced level-based game. The whole reason Miyamoto made the first Zelda have what was then considered a really huge map was because we were to wander through it uncovering hidden caves, rooms, treasures, and eventually dungeons. Even the dungeons were nearly impossible to find at first (I still wonder aimlessly when I sit down to play the old Zelda after long periods of time away from it). Parts of the map were even a maze trap that stopped you from getting to the next dungeon so quickly. A Link to the Past was a progression of dungeons, but only if you wanted it to be. There were tons of hidden secrets across the map that required you to spend time running around playing with the world. I almost never went for all three pendents and the master sword right away. That was not "Act 1" as some people are referring to the act of collecting three symbols of valor like in Ocarina of Time. These simply are not acts. I never liked going for the master sword because Zelda disappeared and it meant I was catapulted into the Dark World where I'd be playing for a good while. I usually put off the third pendent so I could run around the map some, to do some exploring. By the time I finally stopped playing A Link to the Past for the most part, I even stopped going after the mastersword. Eventually, I didn't even bother to upgrade my sword since I could beat the game without the mastersword. I found a lot more pleasure in seeing how many different ways I could take advantage of the game's world, and I did the same thing with Super Mario World to the point that there's not a single thing that can be done in it that I can't do or haven't done. Now that's what I consider beating a game.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 01, 2003, 12:19:21 PM
Because you have ADD.
I don't know why you're bored by the game, but I know you're in the minority. I just beat the game after a week of owning it and I have to say pretty much the only time I put down the game was to eat, sleep, and go to school.
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 01, 2003, 01:52:52 PM
Hehe....
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 01, 2003, 02:05:57 PM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 02, 2003, 03:51:03 AM
Quote
Because you have ADD. I don't know why you're bored by the game, but I know you're in the minority. I just beat the game after a week of owning it and I have to say pretty much the only time I put down the game was to eat, sleep, and go to school.
Now why throw in a personal attack?
The game is very boring to people who dont like this style of game. I loved it at first but am now bored out of my mind with it.
My job involves mass amounts of reading, looking at charts, and analysing stock prices, very very boring work for the most part.
Whne I find the time to unwind and play a game, I like a game that is the opposite of my real life. This IMO is why I would rather play timesplitters2 than Zelda or Prime, both are just to slow moving for what I want.
I think Zelda is very well done for the most part. It just isnt for me.
Post by: theaveng on April 02, 2003, 05:38:37 AM
In contrast, I spent all last afternoon/evening wandering aimlessly around Wind Waker's Windfall Island and looking for fairy islands to upgrade my heart pieces/bottles. It was interesting... I guess. Okay, not really. It was too slow-paced for my tastes.
Have you guys ever heard of a 1980's game called Pirates? Probably not. Well anyway, that game involved a lot of exploration in the Caribeean and along the Florida coast. But it was fast-paced exploration. You could play the entire game in a single day... and the exploration wasn't random. You always had a goal:
- Find the Spanish Treasure Caravan and steal the gold.
- Sink French ships to help England win the war.
- Woo governors' daughters and marry the most beautiful one possible.
- Retire a rich man. :-)
So you see I DO enjoy exploration-type games, but the exploration has to serve a valuable purpose... not just collecting 50 rupees.
Troy (Sidles away)
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 02, 2003, 11:06:41 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 02, 2003, 11:20:06 AM
It was a JOKE. I saw how you conviniently omittied from your quote the smiley face that was present in my original post. I meant that comment to be lighthearted and humorous. I didn't intend it to be an attack (although I do think you have to really pay attention and be patient to enjoy the game- not saying theavenge is that way personally, though, aside from his qualms with the scanning in MP).
I can understand misunderstanding some of my posts, but generally when someone puts a smiley face next to a comment, it's not meant to be insulting.
And it's not that he doesn't like the style- he said himself he liked OoT, and WW is almost exactly like it.
"In contrast, I spent all last afternoon/evening wandering aimlessly around Wind Waker's Windfall Island and looking for fairy islands to upgrade my heart pieces/bottles. It was interesting... I guess. Okay, not really. It was too slow-paced for my tastes."
You know you don't HAVE to do any of that. Quite literally all of the upgrades and heart pieces I found I came across naturally, not going out and searching for them. I only had 11 hearts total at the end of the game. You seem to have a habit of doing unneccessary things and then complaining about them.
"So you see I DO enjoy exploration-type games, but the exploration has to serve a valuable purpouse... not just collecting 50 rupees"
I swear to god you did NOT play Wind Waker. Can anyone who beat the game tell me WHEN you were forced to collect 50 rupees? Hell, you could get 50 rupees easily from the enemies you find along the way- I must've collected thousands of rupees through the game without consciously doing so. There's only a few items you have to buy in the game and none are priced so that you have to spend much time at all getting rupees, if any time AT all. Did you think that since you wanted a specific item you couldn't afford you HAD to collect rupees and that it's the games fault? There's things called sidequests, man, that you don't need to do. The only time I could plausibly see someone with the impression they were needlessly searching for something was when getting the Trifoce charts, but that's IT. At no other time was I not under the impression that what I was searching for wasn't valuable.
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 02, 2003, 02:23:20 PM
I would just like to add that I wouldn't consider Ocarina of Time the beginning of the story. It's the beginning of a story, but is certainly no where near the start of the Legend of Zelda. It's only a few hundred years before Wind Waker. If you timeline these (which you most certainly can now given Wind Waker's introduction), A Link to the Past can be considered nearly ancient. You could also bear in mind that parts of OoT are somewhat reliant upon A Link to the Past for story elements.
Of course, in both stories, the elders know this hero is coming and will fulfill a prophecy.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 02, 2003, 02:30:32 PM
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 02, 2003, 02:40:24 PM
Oh well, I still love a Link to the Past so much more. I can't begin to stop finding new reasons to hate OoT. I liked it better when it was just the goddesses who left the Triforce to the Hylians rather than Din, Farore, and Doohicky's skanky butts. And why on god's green earth have they made the fairies into banshees? I've always thought they were god awful ugly in OoT and now they're even worse. I feel like I'm playing a Hindu-religious game. I don't think even the Shinto's have creatures that look like these fairies do. Why did Nintendo sway from the beautiful fairies that looked halfway sexy? All of the fairies used to look like attractive females, now I feel like I have Kid Icarus in a bottle and Cali or Shiva (sp...) staring me in the face at these fairy springs. Nintendo sure likes to push the envelope on religious politics. They seem to border on political incorrectness for no reason (and I mean this in reference to their dungeon chants in OoT that eventually were edited).
Also, if you remember, the original Zelda had a dungeon in the shape of the Nazi's symbol (which I can't recall how to spell it and don't want to look it up). That's the thing I'm talking about. Not neccesarily a religious reference as this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with cultural exposure and a disappointment with the look of the fairies.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 02, 2003, 02:44:15 PM
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 02, 2003, 02:57:34 PM
As for the dungeons, I feel like the only person who finds them very pointless, lacking any good clues, and really are just a scattered mess of rooms and headaches. They seem repetitive to gamers because every one of them is self-explanatory to those who know how to complete them. It's like this, I just had just gotten the hookshot and the answer to getting into the forest temple is to use it. I then use it and the bow I get from the place to beat it. There are no clues that this is what I'm supposed to use. It's dungeon-implied. For me, the dungeons in OoT are the biggest disappointment of all thus far. They could not have done a worse job making these dungeons feel like uninhabited natural occurences of nature. Not to sound unreasonable, but I feel like a hole in the ground with some moss, vines, and monsters that just happen to be there does not constitute a dungeon of evil. Every other Zelda did a good job with underworld dungeons, but OoT felt like it strived too hard to be apart of its environment.
I'll stop giving OoT a hard time. I still like the game (would even save love), but it's not better than some of the others. There are plenty of things I would have rather had out of it. A really nice sound track would have helped a lot.
Post by: Rellik on April 02, 2003, 03:02:58 PM
They're kind-of simple looking... but the simpler they are, the more benevolent they seem. They just seem like these kind, gentle spirits who help people... you know, nothing fancy, they're just there, unassuming.
Post by: theaveng on April 02, 2003, 04:57:47 PM
QuoteThen why did the Creator of Zelda say, "Ocarina's Link is the first Link"? How do you ignore the creator's own statement? Do you think he's a dumbass and doesn't know anything about his own game?
Originally posted by: VideoGamerX
POSSIBLE SPOILER
I would just like to add that I wouldn't consider Ocarina of Time the beginning of the story. It's the beginning of a story, but is certainly no where near the start of the Legend of Zelda.
Sorry if the above questions offend you, but I don't comprehend how you can ignore the creator's statement like it never happened. He clearly said Ocarina was first. Even the story supports that. Ganandorf was a human being, recently born. This was the very first time he had ever attacked Hyrule.
I've heard people say this is the proper order (ignoring sidequests):
Ocarina -----> Wind Waker -----> A Link to the Past -----> The Legend of Zelda
Makes sense to me.
.
.
.
.
.
BACK TO WIND WAKER:
You guys love the mini-games, but I find them booooring. Why would I want to take a picture of some woman, hand it to some man, then wait a day, and go find the pair on a date... all just to get a lousy 1/4 heart. Not only are these mini-games *not* fun... they aren't even challenging. I'd rather load up MAME and play a little Pac-Man or Asteroids or dozens of other arcade classics. Or maybe some Mario or Pitfall action on the ancient Atari/Nintendo. Those are fun "mini" games... the mini-games in modern epics are not.
That said, I would have preferred more dungeons. Here's a rough breakdown:
OOT WW
-3- -3- Gemstone Dungeons
-5- -2- Sage Dungeons
=============
-8- -5- TOTAL
Rather disappointing for me.
And then there's the bosses. Every Ocarina boss killed me at least once. NONE of the Wind Waker bosses killed me. The Wind Waker bosses should be renamed "wimps". hahahahaha! ;-)
Oh well. My copy of Wind Waker's on ebay now. It was worth playing once, but not over-and-over. Not like Ocarina of Time.
Troy (Sidles off)
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 02, 2003, 05:47:53 PM
Maybe Ocarina's Link is supposed to be the first Link, but that's not logical. There's too much development and technology in their worlds. Wind Waker has cannons. A Link to the Past has nothing like that. Their world seems simple with people who manage to recall the ancients. OoT acts like they can barely recall anything of magic, the royal family has the Triforce, the Master Sword is in their backyard (temple). In a Link to the Past they recall a time when a hero used the Master Sword but they have long since forgotten where it is (it's not in Hyrule Castle's backyard). The people in A Link to the Past know the Triforce exists but it's in another dimension and people go in search of it (the royal family knows it's sealed away in the other world and the direct descendents of the sage's who sealed that world are still living).
That's seriously flawed. There are fortune tellers and witches in LttP, not scientists and alchemists. There are presumably no horses in LttP, but that is the case in OoT... horses, saddles, and probably chariots, too. Far more magic in LttP, far less in OoT.
It doesn't matter than Ganon is human at the start, that he was just born. Maybe Ganon is every Gerudu male that is born. Every time a Gerudu male is born (which only happens once every hundred years or so), maybe this is evil incarnate.
Whatever the case, I seize to care. There is no way Ocarina's Link was the "first Link." Maybe Miyamoto meant it in reference to Wind Waker and not the franchise as a whole. I've never heard of him making reference to any connection between the Zelda's unless it was way back when LttP was released. They might have caught him saying that the Zelda's for NES were later than LttP. I assume this is the case now until I see a source.
As for Wind Waker bosses being wimps, I don't know if you've noticed but they're no different than the OoT bosses. The difference is that you don't take as much damage. I finally found something that's a tough fight. Have you seen that big black pig on Outset Island? Go get into the pin with it and start slashing it. It'll kill you in about 3 hits if you're not quick getting out of there. It takes roughly 3 hearts away with each hit.
Post by: theaveng on April 03, 2003, 08:09:00 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 03, 2003, 08:09:01 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 03, 2003, 08:09:03 AM
QuoteWhy do you assume that societies always progress? It's entirely possible, with Ganandorf's constant attacks, for Hyrule to slide backwards. Look at what his last attack did! Created a flooded world and a near-lawless society with no central control. Using a historical reference:
Originally posted by: VideoGamerX
Maybe Ocarina's Link is supposed to be the first Link, but that's not logical. There's too much development and technology in their worlds. Wind Waker has cannons. A Link to the Past has nothing like that. Their world seems simple with people who manage to recall the ancients.
Ocarina of Time = Roman Empire (~200 A.D.) with highly advanced civilization
Link to the Past = The Dark Ages (~1000 A.D.) with decayed, superstitutious civilization
re: BOSSES.
The bosses in Ocarina didn't just inflict more damage. They were also a lot harder to hit. Phantom Ganandorf is a major pain in the ass to kill. Ditto the Twinrova witches. Those Ocarina bosses required a LOT of skill to hit. Not so with the Wind Waker bosses.
Troy
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 03, 2003, 11:00:33 AM
Anyway, I think the accepted timeline of most people of the main Zelda games is this:
OoT --> WW --> LttP --> LoZ
MM was a gaiden to OoT and split off into a different timeline itself (when Link was returned to his child form, his world existed without Ganon/Ganondorf while the world he left did). Link's Awakening is a gaiden to LttP and Adventures of Link is a gaiden to LoZ. I'm not quite sure where the Oracle's fit in.
"the bosses in Ocarina didn't just inflict more damage. They were also a lot harder to hit. Phantom Ganandorf is a major pain in the ass to kill. Ditto the Twinrova witches. Those Ocarina bosses required a LOT of skill to hit. Not so with the Wind Waker bosses."
While I agree that OoT's bosses were harder (although I think MM's were much more difficult themselves), I wouldn't say they were that hard, either. The only boss I actually had any trouble with was the first time I fought Morhpa without the Biggoron's Sword. I think the bosses were better designed in OoT, though, and especially MM, although the last bosses of WW are some of the best.
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 02:07:28 AM
Also, which of the "last bosses of WW" are you referring to? The last two bosses I fought were a Giant Poe and a Sandworm. I beat both *easily*... wasn't even challenge. At this point in Ocarina, the bosses (Twinrova and those insanely strong knight things) were killing me over-and-over. And no, I wasn't younger than. It was only 3 months ago. ;-)
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MORE WIND WAKER BOREDOM
I just reached the "sail the world and search for triforce maps" section. My God! This is like torture!!! Wasting days on end, sailing on a boring sea, and searching every-nook-and-cranny is horrible. This tedious triforce task is worse than my job. There's no fun here.
As for buying Wind Waker's triforce map translations, I think it's ridiculous. I'm going around and cutting stupid grass just to find rupees. Collecting these rupees is about as pointless as collecting the notes in Banjo-Kazooie... except of course, Banjo-Kazooie was a lot more fun than cutting grass.
Troy
Post by: Koopa Troopa on April 04, 2003, 10:25:17 AM
Quote
As for buying Wind Waker's triforce map translations, I think it's ridiculous. I'm going around and cutting stupid grass just to find rupees. Collecting these rupees is about as pointless as collecting the notes in Banjo-Kazooie... except of course, Banjo-Kazooie was a lot more fun than cutting grass.
POSSIBLE-SEMI-SPOILER*****
There is alot of money to be made in the place where you obtain Outset Island's Triforce chart, I haven't calculated how much yet, but it was fairly significant. I'm nearly 100% sure you can go back as many times as you like.
Post by: The King of red Lions on April 04, 2003, 11:56:40 AM
Quote
I just reached the "sail the world and search for triforce maps" section. My God! This is like torture!!! Wasting days on end, sailing on a boring sea, and searching every-nook-and-cranny is horrible. This tedious triforce task is worse than my job. There's no fun here.
--I don't understand because you should have a map that tells you exactly where to get the triforce charts
--Sailing doesn't take as long because you can warp around at will, I guess you've probably already found it, but it doesn't sound like it to me.
--If sailing is boring go to the glowing rings and dredge up some treasure chests. It will help your rupee situation as well. You could also dredge up some major treasure from treasure maps if you have them.
--You also have 2 more dungeons to plow through, so you don't even have to be searching for the triforce of courage right now, if you didn't already know that.
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 01:27:57 PM
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 01:27:58 PM
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 01:28:00 PM
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 01:28:02 PM
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 01:28:04 PM
Troy
Post by: theaveng on April 04, 2003, 01:28:07 PM
QuoteFinal Fantasy 7 right? I remember that... I was totally and completely stuck and NOT having any fun. Finally I just pulled out gamefaqs.com and read the solution... which turned out to be totally *not* obvious.
meanwhile stupid things like finding a girl with a loud voice in order to wake a sleeping fat man who's blocking your way is mandatory in RPG's.
I think that's where my hatred of minigames began (yes, it's a minigame... a puzzle basically). First, why on earth is there such a dumb puzzle in the middle of an RPG? I play RPGs for battles and exploration, not stupid puzzles. Second, most minigames are completely and totally lame. The purpose of games is to have fun, and a lame minigame kills the fun.
Now, there are SOME good minigames. Like the 20 minute "go water the trees" minigame in Zelda: Wind Waker. It was a challenge to meet the time limit and filled me with lots of andrenaline = fun. I also liked the 50 level dungeon on Outset Island. Same reasons. But that's only 2 good minigames out of ~100 minigames. Rather lame IMHO
I'd prefer that the developers leave the minigames out of the main epic (or else make them 100% optional), so we gamers are not forced to play lame, not-fun crap. Zelda: Wind Waker has a lot of optional minigames, but there are also a lot of minigames that are not optional... like the lame Triforce Map search.
Troy
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 04, 2003, 02:39:25 PM
And the mini games were something to be desired. Create the correct picture, flip over the right cards, pick a chest, and my favorite was always the hidden airship full of coins that you could cause to show up every now and then.
Post by: Rellik on April 05, 2003, 03:50:05 AM
Anyway, I HATE THAT FOREST WATER SIDEQUEST. It's just... not... fun. Run around aimlessly, not allowed to take any extra time to do something fun, nooo, you have to sail around trying to find the stupid koroks within 20 minutes... I tried it once, found that I felt making a sidestop on an island (this was key island I think) to do something fun was a way better thing to do than continue with the sidequest, and just waited until the forest water turned back and poured it out.
I like the Triumph Forks map hunt. It's nice to have something to be looking for when you would just be sailing around to all these islands anyway...
I think that battle-ship game was kinda boring. Maybe if it had been something thought-provoking, like Minesweeper.... well, I think that the "shoot the fish" was a good diversion. As was the mail-sorting minigame, although hard (it would have been more fun if they had assigned each box to a button instead of having to use the analog stick to control which box). And I guess the Orca-fighting could be considered a minigame, and it's fun until you have to spend absurd amounts of time to get to 500.
How do you get to that dungeon on Outset?
Post by: theaveng on April 05, 2003, 05:01:42 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 05, 2003, 05:01:43 AM
Post by: theaveng on April 05, 2003, 05:01:45 AM
See for me, if I want to go exploring, I hop in my car and explore the real world. Like last summer, I drove all the way to Alaska just for fun. Exploring in fake worlds just doesn't appeal to me.
WHAT KIND OF GAMER AM I?
The kind that likes fast-paced action and challenge. That's why I liked the 20-minute Water The Trees sidequest. It was fast-paced, challenging to meet the time limit, and made the heart beat faster. It was pure fun! (Note: I only had 2 seconds left! Talk about cutting it close!) I also like racing games, platformers, and simulators.
Troy
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 05, 2003, 05:29:29 PM
Post by: rodtod on April 08, 2003, 07:47:50 PM
