Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 10, 2008, 09:58:11 AM
First, they revealed Zelda's final smash. She uses her bow and arrow from Twilight Princess. Then, in her move descriptions they mention that down+B is called "Twilight change", which means that Sheik is still a part of Zelda.
Finally, they confirmed that Snake and Sonic are hidden characters. So those of you who doubted Sakurai's words when he said that third party characters would be hidden characters, there you go.
You can check out the news here.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 10, 2008, 10:01:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Coro Coro delivered a little bit of news today.
First, they revealed Zelda's final smash. She uses her bow and arrow from Twilight Princess. Then, in her move descriptions they mention that down+B is called "Twilight change", which means that Sheik is still a part of Zelda.
Finally, they confirmed that Snake and Sonic are hidden characters. So those of you who doubted Sakurai's words when he said that third party characters would be hidden characters, there you go.
You can check out the news here.
Well I hope that Snake and Sonic aren't the ONLY unlockable 3rd party characters, it would be kind of sad to have that surprise ruined completely months before release.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 10, 2008, 10:01:52 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 10, 2008, 10:04:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Coro Coro delivered a little bit of news today.
First, they revealed Zelda's final smash. She uses her bow and arrow from Twilight Princess. Then, in her move descriptions they mention that down+B is called "Twilight change", which means that Sheik is still a part of Zelda.
Finally, they confirmed that Snake and Sonic are hidden characters. So those of you who doubted Sakurai's words when he said that third party characters would be hidden characters, there you go.
You can check out the news here.
Well I hope that Snake and Sonic aren't the ONLY unlockable 3rd party characters, it would be kind of sad to have that surprise ruined completely months before release.
They needed to. Like its been said already, having Snake and Sonic in the game would attract a lot of attention and hype towards the game. I know the game already had hype going through the roof, but the minute Sonic and Snake appeared people were sold.
So they basically needed to hype them despite the fact that they are hidden characters.
Post by: stevey on January 10, 2008, 12:05:45 PM
Quote
Then, in her move descriptions they mention that down+B is called "Twilight change", which means that Sheik is still a part of Zelda.
why do people keep looking for an excuse for Sheik to be in the game, if anything her \/B is a Minda transformation
Post by: Mario on January 10, 2008, 12:27:18 PM
Post by: vudu on January 10, 2008, 12:45:31 PM
QuoteThat makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would Zelda transform into Midna?
Originally posted by: stevey
why do people keep looking for an excuse for Sheik to be in the game, if anything her \/B is a Minda transformation
Post by: Ceric on January 10, 2008, 01:04:16 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 10, 2008, 01:07:38 PM
Post by: Arbok on January 10, 2008, 01:20:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
If she changed into Sheik why would it be called Twilight Change...
No idea, but the full translation on the site leaves little doubt that's what it's talking about:
Quote
The thing is, Zelda doesn't have a twilight change in Twilight Princess. The translation for the final Special move reads: "Twilight Change (Original Twilight version of Shiek transformation)" A rough translation says "Twilight version Seek Transformation". Seek is the Japanese version of Shiek, so there ya go. We have multiple translators confirming this.
Post by: stevey on January 10, 2008, 02:58:08 PM
Quote
Original Twilight version of Shiek transformation
"Original" n: never before done, completely new
Just turning into Sheik wouldn't be original, replacing sheik would....
Quote
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would Zelda transform into Midna?
At the end of TP Zelda saids she fused~ with Midna too save her life so they were one and the same for part of the game and a light-shadow character would be awesome to play as!
Post by: Arbok on January 10, 2008, 05:19:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: steveyQuote
Original Twilight version of Shiek transformation
"Original" n: never before done, completely new
Just turning into Sheik wouldn't be original, replacing sheik would....
Yes, a new Sheik. I.e., one designed for the Twilight Zelda universe, which is something that we knew about as Eiji Aonuma mentioned that "his designers" worked on it in that interview which spoiled both Sheik and Ganondorf's inclusion.
Post by: LuigiHann on January 10, 2008, 05:29:12 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on January 10, 2008, 07:29:56 PM
While a redesigned Sheik is the most probable there is still a chance that a "redesigned Sheik" could just be Midna, imp or uncursed,.
I think that the Humanoid Twilight Princess Midna could have plausible variations of Sheik's moves e.g., needles into magic Twili shards or something and she seems like she could also preform Sheik's regular attacks.
Quote
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteThat makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would Zelda transform into Midna?
Originally posted by: stevey
why do people keep looking for an excuse for Sheik to be in the game, if anything her \/B is a Minda transformation
Why would Zelda transform into a character that is not even in the game while she did spiritually fuse with Midna, just as stevey said before.
Either way though, Zelda is pretty much confirmed to transform, thus keeping her uniqueness as a character, and really I just want to see what she transforms into.
The fact that she transforms and that we know her Final Smash Attack brings into question if the transformation would also have its own FSA, because it does not seem like it will end up like Pokemon Trainer's FSA where all three pokemon show up. If the transformation is in fact Midna, and each transformation has its own FSA, I would be willing to bet that Midna's FSA would involve what she turns into when she uses the fused shadow.
Edit: For the Love of God Golden could you please switch out your avatar, even that Power Girl wannabe will do.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 10, 2008, 08:10:27 PM
Not to be a jerk but really! Why keep speculating on something that's already been confirmed?
Zelda's director confirmed that he was working with Sakurai on updated models for Sheik and Ganondorf.
She will be in Brawl, and thanks to this of info, as part of Zelda.
If Midna's in Brawl, she will either be her own character or with Wolf Link.
Its as simple as that.
Post by: anubis6789 on January 10, 2008, 09:32:21 PM
Really though, what if Zelda's Director was using the word "Sheik" as a term referring to Zelda's transformation, not the actual character of Sheik? What if the Sheik redesign turns out to be Midna?
Furthermore, these are very blurry shots of the magazine. How can we be sure any translation is correct, and for that matter, now that I think about it, how can we even be sure they are real? The pictures and info seem to be coming from only one place as well.
Speculation is a form of discussion, even when the answer may be all but obvious, because, yeah, Zelda's transformation will probably be a Sheik redesign, but whats wrong with dreaming a little?
Post by: Arbok on January 11, 2008, 04:31:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Sheik has already been confirmed?!? Where is the picture of Sheik so that we may see what she looks like?
We don't know what she looks like... but both the director and the translation of the move above contain the word Sheik, or its Japanese equivalent... now why use that name if you are going to use Midna or something else?
We know the look has been updated, and that's that, but nothing indicates that she will change into something other than Sheik.
Post by: Darkheart on January 11, 2008, 05:52:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Sheik has already been confirmed?!? Where is the picture of Sheik so that we may see what she looks like?
Really though, what if Zelda's Director was using the word "Sheik" as a term referring to Zelda's transformation, not the actual character of Sheik? What if the Sheik redesign turns out to be Midna?
Furthermore, these are very blurry shots of the magazine. How can we be sure any translation is correct, and for that matter, now that I think about it, how can we even be sure they are real? The pictures and info seem to be coming from only one place as well.
Speculation is a form of discussion, even when the answer may be all but obvious, because, yeah, Zelda's transformation will probably be a Sheik redesign, but whats wrong with dreaming a little?
They used the word Shiek because it IS shiek. This midna talk is good, but she would have to be her own character plain and simple. There was no part in Twilight Princess where Zelda was switching back and forth from Zelda to Midna. Before you criticize that Shiek wasn't in Twilight Princess lets just face the facts.
Shiek was a fan favorite from Melee
Everyone wanted her back
Everyone in the Zelda Franchise is cameoing in their Twilight Princess get ups
Instead of getting a small updated texture and model for Shiek Sakurai asked for a Twilight Princess redesign
So why not be happy that Shiek is making not only a return but perhaps a redesign as well. I for one am happy for Shiek's return.
I still hope for a Wolf Link/ Midna Combo by the way. . .
Post by: anubis6789 on January 11, 2008, 07:25:30 AM
Again though, I will reiterate that I believe that it will end up being a redesign of Sheik, not that that is bad, I just have fun exploring other, seemingly valid, options before they reveal what the redesign looks like, which may be next week.
Post by: Arbok on January 11, 2008, 02:48:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I think that I am being misunderstood; I am asking what if the redesigned Sheik is Midna, and what if the term "Sheik" is being used more as a title? I am not talking about "Sheik" having different moves, just a different physical appearance that may or may not be Midna.
She will have a different appearance, this has been confirmed in the interview. It will not be Midna, and I'm willing to bet money on this.
Really, why is it so odd to think the Twilight Zelda might be able to turn into Sheik in the game? It's not like her moves from Melee were used in Ocarina anyway, as the series always had to take some liberties. Besides, it makes more sense for the character to share a power with an ancestor than it does to change into a totally new character, and Midna deserves her own character anyway if she's in the game rather than being shoehorned into Sheik's play style.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 11, 2008, 04:03:25 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on January 11, 2008, 04:57:48 PM
Post by: stevey on January 12, 2008, 02:03:43 AM
Post by: Arbok on January 12, 2008, 03:29:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
/thread
Ouch. Well my faith in Brawl Central just took a dive.
Post by: LuigiHann on January 12, 2008, 03:53:34 AM
Post by: Sessha on January 12, 2008, 05:43:50 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 12, 2008, 06:27:36 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 12, 2008, 06:38:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: stevey
/thread
Ouch. Well my faith in Brawl Central just took a dive.
Ditto. Although, this doesn't mean that Sheik isn't a part of Zelda.
I think this all has to do with the fact that Sakurai has yet to talk about Zelda's moves and unveil Sheik as a veteran character. So maybe that's the reason the Coro Coro cards don't talk about her down B moves.
Post by: that Baby guy on January 12, 2008, 06:39:13 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on January 12, 2008, 05:11:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
Nah, I think it's that they don't want people to know that Shiek is unlockable yet. If there's a new move there, then people would guess at it, but if nothing is there, people will just assume that Zelda can transform into Shiek. There's no real reason to hide Zelda's down-B attack otherwise, since she's most likely in the starting roster, by virtue, if Shiek were the down-B attack, Shiek would be in the starting roster as well, and as far as we can tell, we likely know everyone in that starting roster now. The reason the move is hidden is to both prevent people from thinking Shiek is out of the game and to prevent others from figuring out Shiek is a hidden character, I bet. There's just no reason to keep the two together, all it really does is give them one less move than everyone else, since there's no balancing act similar to the PT's stamina. Even now, Zelda's appearance is from a game where Shiek doesn't exist. As it stands, it just limits the characters to one less attack apiece.
It would seem that they are each missing a move if you look at them as separate characters, but when you look at them as one character with different "stances" then they turn into a character that has more moves than any other character in the game, and if each form were to have a different Final Smash and be able to change form with the Smash Ball activated then they would be the most versatile character in the game. While there is a delay for the change it does not seem (if Melee is any indication for how the transformation may be implemented in Brawl) to take too long, especially when compared to PokeMon Trainer's change, which also only seems to be usable on the ground.
While all available evidence does not support either stance on Sheiks inclusion as a separate or transformation character, I do feel (as in a hunch) that separation of the characters is not very likely; I just do not see any reason that they would get rid of one of the more unique characters (I know that PokeMon Trainer has a change move too, but, like you said, it involves the almost forced changed due to stamina, which would probably give birth to a completely different style of play). The lack of the down B move description could also be used to say that Zelda changes into Midna, because there is no specific mention of Sheik as being in the game(outside of a single line from an indirect, although mildly official, source in an interview).
