Post by: Adrock on October 19, 2007, 09:57:40 PM
Quote
AY: Ah, the Wii. Wiiiiiiiiii... Silent Hill Wii. Can we do it? Will players like it?
WN: Yeah! There's a lot of potential there, using the remote as a flashlight, or a knife...
AY: Yeah, there's potential.
WN: But no plans.
AY: No plans. The Wii user isn't a hardcore user.
You know I'm getting pretty friggin' sick of reading crap like this. First, Gamecube was just for kids and the market share was too small. Fine, I can buy that to some degree. Now, Wii is destroying everything in its path everywhere in the whole world, it's not hardcore enough for X game or Y user. Not that I'm dying to get some Silent Hill on Nintendo hardware, I just think it's ridiculous that there's still a debate about whether to support the platform.
I'm beginning to think that Nintendo just plain can't win. So while they're not necessarily just for kids anymore, they're not hardcore enough for certain games. Not hardcore? What the hell does that mean? Wii has the largest install base. Based on that alone, its the safest bet. Release a good game then see what happens.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 19, 2007, 10:10:09 PM
Post by: Mashiro on October 19, 2007, 10:47:48 PM
Oh wait . . .
If it's not one excuse it's another with these companies. Only when other companies start to make buckets of money with "hardcore" games will they have no excuses left.
Post by: Shift Key on October 19, 2007, 10:57:58 PM
Quote
AY: In terms of technology, it's impossible to fit a Silent Hill type of game into the DS format. In terms of the handheld market, DS is much bigger. But with the Light/Slim version, PSP sales are picking up. So that's why we chose PSP.
GO YOU BIG RED PSP!
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on October 19, 2007, 11:42:04 PM
It's really wild to see people's perceptions permanently altered by mythical buzzwords.
Post by: ShyGuy on October 20, 2007, 12:53:38 AM
Post by: Mashiro on October 20, 2007, 01:42:23 AM
Post by: Ghisy on October 20, 2007, 04:33:21 AM
I did buy one in Tokyo (the Felicia Blue one) because it's cheap there and there was a couple of games I wanted to try on it.
But as soon as the colors are gone, the DS will be first again, I'm pretty sure about that.
Post by: Nintendawg on October 20, 2007, 05:59:40 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 20, 2007, 06:55:05 AM
Especially when they rush to make a half assed Wii port to try and recoup cost.
Quote
Fake Quote:
We are only gonna support PS3 because we realize that sales are really gonna pick up by Christmas 2009 and PS3 will be in the lead WW in 2010
Post by: ThePerm on October 20, 2007, 08:17:22 AM
it mean deep as opposed to shallow.
Post by: IceCold on October 20, 2007, 08:47:41 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on October 20, 2007, 08:55:57 AM
Seriously, outside the Castlevania games they haven't supported the DS well enough, even though its the most popular handheld out there. Now, not only are they making small, cheap games for the Wii they are constantly crapping all over it with comments like "people will get tired playing it" and "it isn't hardcore enough". And they refuse to leave Sony even if they are going to lose a lot of money on PS3 games.
This is ridiculous.
Post by: BigJim on October 20, 2007, 10:31:16 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 20, 2007, 10:38:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
He might be generalizing, but how are 3rd party hardcore (non-casual) game sales doing? (stats? comparisons?)
Well Resident Evil 4 last time anyone checked had over 800,000 copies worldwide. Considering it's a violent, M rated title just like the Silent Hill games it shows that there is an audience on the Wii for these games.
Post by: Amodaus1 on October 20, 2007, 10:46:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Konami OFFICIALLY hates Nintendo now...
Seriously, outside the Castlevania games they haven't supported the DS well enough, even though its the most popular handheld out there. Now, not only are they making small, cheap games for the Wii they are constantly crapping all over it with comments like "people will get tired playing it" and "it isn't hardcore enough". And they refuse to leave Sony even if they are going to lose a lot of money on PS3 games.
This is ridiculous.
Lunar knights, Contra 4, there are other games too i just don't know them off the top of my head. Although I agree they are supporting the PSP alittle too much considering its software sales (the installed base is respectable, but the software sales are low, low enough to warrant a ps2 publishing over psp every time)
It'd be nice if konami started to release some new IPs on the ds, that i feel like they are droping the ball on. The development costs and the installed base warrants exploration rather than the conservative approach, but i'll still take contra 4, and they really should release sympony and castlevania X on the ds too.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on October 20, 2007, 11:17:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Amodaus1Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Konami OFFICIALLY hates Nintendo now...
Seriously, outside the Castlevania games they haven't supported the DS well enough, even though its the most popular handheld out there. Now, not only are they making small, cheap games for the Wii they are constantly crapping all over it with comments like "people will get tired playing it" and "it isn't hardcore enough". And they refuse to leave Sony even if they are going to lose a lot of money on PS3 games.
This is ridiculous.
Lunar knights, Contra 4, there are other games too i just don't know them off the top of my head. Although I agree they are supporting the PSP alittle too much considering its software sales (the installed base is respectable, but the software sales are low, low enough to warrant a ps2 publishing over psp every time)
It'd be nice if konami started to release some new IPs on the ds, that i feel like they are droping the ball on. The development costs and the installed base warrants exploration rather than the conservative approach, but i'll still take contra 4, and they really should release sympony and castlevania X on the ds too.
I admit I forgot about Lunar Knights and Contra 4, but its still annoying that Konami is dropping all support on the Sony consoles. If all they want to do is be fair they should take a cue from Square and evenly develop for all consoles, and that means dropping the occasional megaton on the DS or Wii.
In fact, if they want to be fair they should make at least ONE Metal Gear game on the DS or Wii. When they do that then I'll believe they are being fair.
Post by: Kenology on October 20, 2007, 11:22:42 AM
Post by: Kairon on October 20, 2007, 11:42:17 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 20, 2007, 11:55:14 AM
Post by: Adrock on October 20, 2007, 12:42:31 PM
The assumptions about Nintendo's audience are what frustrate me. A high-profile game will find its audience, especially on popular hardware. The assumptions just don't add up and I feel that too many publishers are taking the "wait and see" approach. One brave publisher needs to take the plunge before they all do. For example, publishers didn't really start heavily supporting PS1 until games like Final Fantasy VII and Metal Gear Solid proved there was an audience for those kinds of games. So I think that's what needs to happen with Wii. There's definitely a feeling that its success can't last but that kind of thinking is counter-productive. The success will almost definitely continue if publishers support it. Not supporting it ultimately helps no one. Nintendo once again must support their platform almost entirely by themselves while 3rd parties make no money when they could be making a lot of money.
Post by: Kairon on October 20, 2007, 02:46:52 PM
Post by: Shift Key on October 20, 2007, 03:06:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Does Nintendo need to tempt this one brave publisher with moneyhats?
You can't buy loyalty with moneyhats. Plus it sounds like Konami is so far up Sony' arse that it cannot brush its teeth each morning.
Post by: Galford on October 20, 2007, 06:39:39 PM
What AY said is reflected in a large portion of the market.
In the first video interview from Famitus, the producer who is working on RE:UC stated they were making UC play on rails because it might be too hard for players in Japan.
The game was suppose to be like RE4 but was changed to the current version.
RE4 is an exception, not the rule.
A popular game based a on popular franchise using a semi-modified engine.
Capcom could've sole 10k copies and still made a buck.
Post by: Mario on October 20, 2007, 06:39:41 PM
QuoteIt must be pretty crowded up there
Originally posted by: Shift KeyQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Does Nintendo need to tempt this one brave publisher with moneyhats?
You can't buy loyalty with moneyhats. Plus it sounds like Konami is so far up Sony' arse that it cannot brush its teeth each morning.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on October 20, 2007, 07:09:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
He might be generalizing, but how are 3rd party hardcore (non-casual) game sales doing? (stats? comparisons?)
We don't know, because third parties won't develop any for Wii because it's "not hardcore enough."
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 20, 2007, 07:21:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
Umm
What AY said is reflected in a large portion of the market.
In the first video interview from Famitus, the producer who is working on RE:UC stated they were making UC play on rails because it might be too hard for players in Japan.
The game was suppose to be like RE4 but was changed to the current version.
RE4 is an exception, not the rule.
A popular game based a on popular franchise using a semi-modified engine.
Capcom could've sole 10k copies and still made a buck.
How can you say RE4 is the exception when a 3rd party hasn't even even really tried to make a "hardcore" game for Wii? Really I think that UC thing is a load of crap, I think the main reason was budget, they wanted to make a lower budget game and a full fledged RE game would have taken too much of an investment. Not to mention the fact, unless I am imagining things, the SH series is a popular series as well.
Post by: Kairon on October 20, 2007, 07:27:24 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 20, 2007, 07:31:10 PM
Post by: Kairon on October 20, 2007, 07:35:37 PM
Post by: Adrock on October 20, 2007, 08:23:34 PM
Still, I'd argue that there is an audience for these so-called hardcore games. Many people who bought RE4 on Gamecube, including myself, wanted it for the new content. If Capcom made a brand new canon title with the same gameplay engine, they're automatically appealing to everyone who bought the Wii port, Wii owners who didn't buy the port but have/played it on Gamecube, and finally fans of the series who would buy a Wii for some of that sweet, sweet RE lovin'. Without using sales of a good brand new title as proof, assumptions about the Wii userbase are unfair because there are many more indications that point to the presence of an audience for these kinds of titles than there are the other way around.
Since Wii's large userbase isn't enticing enough, Nintendo only has one card up its sleeve: cheap and easy development. I think they really need to start selling this aspect to 3rd parties. Although brand new titles would be better, even a remake of an old, popular game could help Nintendo at this point. Something like a FFVII remake would sell regardless of platform, but it would still prove that people who want that kind of game now already own the platform and are ready and willing to buy RPGs. Of course, it could backfire with publishers arguing that only FFVII could sell that well and knowing Nintendo's luck, that's probably what would happen.
Yeah, I think Nintendo is kind of screwed. No matter they do, there is just no winning.
Post by: Kairon on October 20, 2007, 08:32:52 PM
Post by: Maverick on October 20, 2007, 08:50:34 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 20, 2007, 09:14:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Maverick
Were you being sarcastic? I know for damn sure that I wish MORE games came out in the Spring/Summer. Every year it's big drought with sporadic good titles in the summer, followed by WAY too many good titles in October/November/December. Spread it out, y'all.
Actually there is a reason for that, sales are slower in the summer.
Post by: Kairon on October 20, 2007, 09:23:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Maverick
Were you being sarcastic? I know for damn sure that I wish MORE games came out in the Spring/Summer. Every year it's big drought with sporadic good titles in the summer, followed by WAY too many good titles in October/November/December. Spread it out, y'all.
Actually there is a reason for that, sales are slower in the summer.
Until the Wii came along, that is.
But yeah, I was being sarcastic. Summer sales ARE usually the doldrums, which is why it's even more impressive that RE4 moved copies. It's like... GEEZ, there's a market for these games, and if it's casuing RE4 to exceed expectations in the SUMMER of all times, then you've gotta wonder what it could do properly tapped all throughout the year!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 20, 2007, 10:42:17 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on October 21, 2007, 01:40:09 AM
Haha, Konami.
Post by: ShyGuy on October 21, 2007, 05:24:46 AM
Post by: Amodaus1 on October 21, 2007, 06:18:19 PM
To be honest, its quite lucky that we got 2 DS castlevanias, they could have easily put them on the psp. Same with contra, the last installments were on ps2. Maybe they think 2D is for the DS while 3D is meant for the PSP. Either way, the chronicles would have been nice on ds, but other than portable ops, the support they have been giving to the psp is rather weak.
Like i said, they should be taking relativily cost risks with new IP games on the Ds, which they only did with lunar knights sort of.. . They should be doing it, but they're not, which is a shame. Something else that troubles me is that i read somewhere that the creator of castlevania said if chronicles sells well he would shift his focus to 2D once again. Now I never like the 3D castlevania's, its great that he's finally waking up, but i wonder why he's choosing chronicles as his benchmark, when Dawn of sorrow and portait of ruin have already proven themselves, along with the GBA castlevanais.
Post by: Adrock on October 21, 2007, 07:57:00 PM
Quote
Either way, the chronicles would have been nice on ds, but other than portable ops, the support they have been giving to the psp is rather weak.
They spend more on PSP development. The 2, soon to be 3, Castlevania games on DS used a lot of old sprites. IGA's team has kind of been cheating with that for the past few games which partially explains the speedy development of those games. Despite this, however, I'd still take Konami's DS offerings. They may not be super high budget, but they're better games.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 22, 2007, 05:52:41 AM
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 22, 2007, 06:24:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The way third parties seem to always be making excuses for not supporting Nintendo consoles it makes me wonder if they honestly just don't want Nintendo to be the market leader. Third party support DOES have a lot of power and the big third parties can make or break a console. Maybe they all just really disliked it when Nintendo was on top and don't want that to happen again. They used to have easy, logical sounding excuses when the Cube was struggling but with the Wii kicking ass they have to make up really silly ones.
I think they don't like Nintendo because they also see it as a competitor because Nintendo is a VERY strong 1st party developer. Sony and Microsoft are more in it for the hardware, and don't push their own software so much. The way Nintendo behaved when they were the market leader in the late 80s - early 90s probably also factors into it, but Nintendo isn't like that anymore and I think most have forgotten/forgiven them over that by now. But still, a 3rd party game on a Nintendo console would have to compete with the likes of Mario and Zelda. On a MS or Sony machine they don't really have that problem.
Post by: Deguello on October 22, 2007, 06:27:45 AM
Post by: Mario on October 22, 2007, 06:36:50 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on October 22, 2007, 08:05:48 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 22, 2007, 09:14:14 AM
Post by: Galford on October 22, 2007, 06:18:06 PM
MS just announced the Arcade version of the 360.
It replaces the former Core pack.
Comes with a wireless controller, 5 casual games, and a 256 Meg memory card.
This will be interesting to see what happens.
To previous posters, yes a lot of developers are hardcore gamers.
Nintendo doesn't need to focus on them exclusively, but it could throw them a moneyhat of two.
Post by: Kairon on October 22, 2007, 06:28:17 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 22, 2007, 06:37:52 PM
Post by: bustin98 on October 22, 2007, 07:09:33 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 22, 2007, 07:17:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
I give more weight to Medal of Honor Heroes 2 than RE:UC. The Wii has already captured alot of Japanese support. MoH:H2 could show that Wii fans want to go online and want shooters, which Western devs seem to excel at.
Not sure of that because MoH falls more under port territory.
Post by: Amodaus1 on October 22, 2007, 07:22:58 PM
My guess is 3rd parties are going to be late to the party because they dismiss the Wii now as if it won't have a more polished line up next year. The damn thing sells itself WITHOUT new software every month, the september NPD numbers prove that. And the same effect with the DS will most likely occur on the Wii. With that said, remember even with the PSP's horrible software sales it still get 3rd party support which is quite good, and the 360 is no PSP. So expect 3rd parties to be more stubborn and not support the Wii, or at least not support it to the fullest.
Post by: Adrock on October 22, 2007, 08:58:02 PM
Quote
But by the end of it's first year the wii will have been graced with a mario title, a paper mario title, a zelda, and a metroid.
They're all Nintendo games. That's partially the problem. Those titles are expected to sell on Nintendo hardware. Publishers are weary that Wii owners only buy Nintendo games and party/family fun titles. I think that's where this "Wii isn't hardcore" stigma is rooted in.
It also hurts that porting games isn't really an option for Wii, mostly because of hardware constraints and to a lesser degree, the controller. It's easier and cheaper to port a game than it is to make a Wii version. I think publishers want to take advantage of Wii's large userbase but are weary of the userbase at the same time, whether or not, people will even buy their games. There's some validity to that argument, but it's ultimately faulty. A well-made game, especially from a popular franchise (and isn't a spin-off) will attract an audience. What made Playstation a winner? All the big publishers put all their big games on it. Wii is attracting everybody. It has a hardcore audience which would undoubtedly become larger if more hardcore games were released for it. I don't think 3rd parties are necessarily shafting Wii; they're just approaching support the wrong way. Capcom is using a gamer's series to attract casuals instead of developing a true RE game and Konami is just b*tching out.... again.
Post by: darknight06 on October 23, 2007, 06:40:00 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 23, 2007, 06:47:42 AM
Post by: Kairon on October 23, 2007, 08:52:12 AM
Post by: Chozo Ghost on October 23, 2007, 07:06:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
It's even scarier looking at the Japanese year-long charts, Nintendo publishes more than 50% of those top 100 games on those things!
Yeah, but that's mostly because initially most 3rd parties neglected the DS and the Wii and they missed the boat when those consoles exploded in popularity. Naturally, Nintendo backed their own hardware so it is no surprise that their games did well. Square-Enix was also an early supporter of the DS and it paid off well for them too. But most other 3rd parties bet on the wrong horse, so to speak.
It's the situation right now that is so baffling. a year or two ago neglecting Nintendo's hardware was excusable, but why are some companies STILL resisting? RE4, Godfather, and the handful of other Mature Wii games are selling extremely well. There's absolutely no reason to not put mature "hardcore" games on the Wii.
Post by: Deguello on October 23, 2007, 11:57:46 PM
But then it really doesn't matter what platform they put the games on. I think some people may be under the misconception that third parties can rule on any of the platforms. 360's top sellers are Gears of War and Halo 3, both first party published titles. PS3's Top sllers are MotorStorm and Resistance, both Sony First party published games. Nowhere can the third parties be the top seller anywhere right now.
Post by: Mario on October 24, 2007, 01:30:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I really want to see what happens if Zack and Wiki becomes a hit. That game is probably more important then people give it credit for, it is a fresh, full fledged traditional game for Wii that appears to be well designed with alot of ingenuity (Heck I bet even the budget was decent sized). Zack and Wiki and then RE:UC have potential to make or break 3rd party support.
Zack and Wiki is probably going to flop big time. Games don't sell well just because they are good. Think about what you'd think of it if you've never heard it before, then picked up the box at the store and had a look. I'd probably be so offended i'd push over the shelf.
Post by: IceCold on October 30, 2007, 01:00:26 PM
It's the vendetta.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on October 30, 2007, 01:40:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I really want to see what happens if Zack and Wiki becomes a hit. That game is probably more important then people give it credit for, it is a fresh, full fledged traditional game for Wii that appears to be well designed with alot of ingenuity (Heck I bet even the budget was decent sized). Zack and Wiki and then RE:UC have potential to make or break 3rd party support.
Zack and Wiki is probably going to flop big time. Games don't sell well just because they are good. Think about what you'd think of it if you've never heard it before, then picked up the box at the store and had a look. I'd probably be so offended i'd push over the shelf.
I doubt its going to be a major flop. It will definitely find an audience like Phoenix Wright did but won't be a massive hit. A sleeper hit is the word I am looking for.
The game IS Gamefly's most rented game for the Wii so definitely there are people interested in it.
