Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 02:35:35 PM
Why the bloody, bloody hell does she leave her armor? It's a choice between a jumpsuit and a fricken suit of power armor with a cannon mounted on the arm. Why? There should be no gain in that, only a loss of endurance.
Also, why sexualized her so? She's one of the few video game heroines that hadn't been sexualized, now this (I didn't like the out-of-armor parts of Metriod Zero Mission, either). Is it too much she stay as a cold-blooded world-weary warrior instead of yet another cliche videogame babe?
Post by: Mario on August 09, 2007, 02:37:59 PM
Post by: stevey on August 09, 2007, 02:40:38 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 02:41:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Improved flexibility and speed
It's bloody power armor. If anything it would make you move faster.
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
Guy with boner are easier to kill, duh!
You win.
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 09, 2007, 02:46:25 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 02:47:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: S-U-P-E-R
Hopefully the two-forms and incredible hotness will put her where she deserves to be, the top tier, solidly over Shiek, if Shiek is still in the game, even. And only then will Smash Brothers be better than Halo 3 and Metal Gear Solid 4 put together.
...Wha?
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 02:59:24 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 03:02:31 PM
That picture seems hardly fitting.
And why is it a bikini/jumpsuit? Shouldn't it be some high-tech under-armor that connects her nervous system to the suit?
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 03:16:23 PM
For more scans, see The Metroid Database!
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 03:22:36 PM
...
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 03:26:41 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 03:29:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Drink lots of yummy limeade?
No.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 03:36:32 PM
Don't try to start a debate about how Chozo technology works, because it'll go nowhere...
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 03:38:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"And why is it a bikini/jumpsuit? Shouldn't it be some high-tech under-armor that connects her nervous system to the suit?"
Don't try to start a debate about how Chozo technology works, because it'll go nowhere...
Sure I can. Sure they could theoretically do anything, but it would be much easier to have the armor link directly to the user's nervous system.
EDIT: Actually, because Samus' suit isn't invincible, their technology is limited.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 09, 2007, 03:48:03 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 03:54:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
How do you know that that hot Bikini isn't some high-tech under armor that connects her nervous system to the suit?
...Because it's a bikini, and the best place to connect to the suit would either be through the spinal column or the back of the neck, neither of which are covered by a bikini?
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 04:01:02 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 04:01:35 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 04:08:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I don't see a need for a neural uplink. All the suit needs is a negative feedback pressure system to do what the user wants it to do.
A neural link would bypass the need for the muscles to function at all and speed things up. Nanoseconds count.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Well then that's why they switched to the body suit...
Touché, but there's still no uplink.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 04:15:06 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 04:17:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Maybe they've got a wireless neurotransmitter?
High levels of radiation can screw with transmissions, and if the enemy jams it you're paralyzed. Wired connections are easier to troubleshoot, too.
Post by: Ceric on August 09, 2007, 04:47:25 PM
Now for the suit. Personally it makes more sense to have a flexible form fitting inner suit for a number of reasons. First of all its almost always a bad idea to be hardwired into something you like to take off. I propose that the form fitting suit allows for more gradular temperature control and makes contact with the skin. Thus being able to read the electric current running through the user much like an EKG, I think that is the one that does brain monitoring. Then the skin tight suit has connections that feeds the data into the outer armor. This is all assuming that it works on that sort of principle instead of working like a modern piece of armor. Thinking about it the long hair makes less sense then the skin tight suit or even the bikini.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 09, 2007, 05:09:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Now for the suit. Personally it makes more sense to have a flexible form fitting inner suit for a number of reasons.
Flexible and form-fiitng, yes, but jumpsuit no.
Quote
First of all its almost always a bad idea to be hardwired into something you like to take off.
Connectors can be removed and disconnected. Chances are Samus doesn't do a lot of switching, only at the start of a mission and the end.
Quote
I propose that the form fitting suit allows for more gradular temperature control and makes contact with the skin. Thus being able to read the electric current running through the user much like an EKG, I think that is the one that does brain monitoring. Then the skin tight suit has connections that feeds the data into the outer armor. This is all assuming that it works on that sort of principle instead of working like a modern piece of armor.Felxible and form-fitting, yes.
However, the same effect could be done by a link to the nervous system. Re-rout motions for the user's arms to the suit's motors. Messages such as pain could be ignored and instead only displayed as a damage report, analyzed and treated with the correct dose of cellular regrowth stimulants.
Quote
Thinking about it the long hair makes less sense then the skin tight suit or even the bikini.
It's not military regulation, but as long as it's in a pony tail and hid in the back sections of the helmet so it's not in her face it will be fine.
Edit: I need sleep. Leave a comment and I'll respond sometime tomorrow.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 05:34:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Ok for starter I have that complete NP comic series and its really good. All the ones they did were really good and its a shame they stopped.
Now for the suit. Personally it makes more sense to have a flexible form fitting inner suit for a number of reasons. First of all its almost always a bad idea to be hardwired into something you like to take off. I propose that the form fitting suit allows for more gradular temperature control and makes contact with the skin. Thus being able to read the electric current running through the user much like an EKG, I think that is the one that does brain monitoring. Then the skin tight suit has connections that feeds the data into the outer armor. This is all assuming that it works on that sort of principle instead of working like a modern piece of armor. Thinking about it the long hair makes less sense then the skin tight suit or even the bikini.
How does she go to the bathroom in a form fitting inner suit? Hmmmm, yeah I thought so.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 06:00:47 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 10, 2007, 12:38:13 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 10, 2007, 01:56:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
First of all its almost always a bad idea to be hardwired into something you like to take off.
Connectors can be removed and disconnected. Chances are Samus doesn't do a lot of switching, only at the start of a mission and the end.
Though the sheer numbers of Missions she goes on means that the suit would be coming on and off quite a bit throughout her lifetime. It would also be a prime area for foul play and infection when outside of the suit.Quote
I propose that the form fitting suit allows for more granular temperature control and makes contact with the skin. Thus being able to read the electric current running through the user much like an EKG, I think that is the one that does brain monitoring. Then the skin tight suit has connections that feeds the data into the outer armor. This is all assuming that it works on that sort of principle instead of working like a modern piece of armor.Felxible and form-fitting, yes.
However, the same effect could be done by a link to the nervous system. Re-rout motions for the user's arms to the suit's motors. Messages such as pain could be ignored and instead only displayed as a damage report, analyzed and treated with the correct dose of cellular regrowth stimulants.
Which could be accomplished by my scheme as well. Its a very dangerous thing to try to block body generated incoming signals to the brain. You could have a heart attack but you may never know and your body wouldn't be told how to properly respond. Now the armor should send hot/cold, touch, etc and not pain. I agree. Though blocking the signals for pain entirely would be bad idea.Quote
Thinking about it the long hair makes less sense then the skin tight suit or even the bikini.
It's not military regulation, but as long as it's in a pony tail and hid in the back sections of the helmet so it's not in her face it will be fine.
Pretty much if the helmet part interacts with Samus more then just sight, smell, and hearing the hair would act as insulation and might mess up those features.
Edit: I need sleep. Leave a comment and I'll respond sometime tomorrow.
GP: Like astronauts do using the sewn in diaper.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 02:39:24 AM
While it's true that it may be open to foul play, a neural link would be harder to take advantage of then your system, as unless they have the same brain patters as Samus, chances are tey won;t get much use from it. As for infections, hopefully the Chozo wouldn't mess up with the surgery.
Which could be accomplished by my scheme as well. Its a very dangerous thing to try to block body generated incoming signals to the brain. You could have a heart attack but you may never know and your body wouldn't be told how to properly respond. Now the armor should send hot/cold, touch, etc and not pain. I agree. Though blocking the signals for pain entirely would be bad idea.
Yes, your method would work, but the link method would allow the suit's life support to get the full data and respond quickly to alleviate the situation. So if the user is experiencing a heart attack the suit could respond to that without the user ever needing to know.
Pretty much if the helmet part interacts with Samus more then just sight, smell, and hearing the hair would act as insulation and might mess up those features.
Hmm, good point. But since it can be removed so easily and the armor continues to move I do think it's just to shield the head and provide the HUD.
Quote
How does she go to the bathroom in a form fitting inner suit? Hmmmm, yeah I thought so.
As Cedric said, like astronauts do.
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
ITT: People bitch about completely inane things.
Welcome to the internets.
Post by: couchmonkey on August 10, 2007, 02:56:04 AM
Regarding the practicality of a jumpsuit under the armour: Meh, it's been this way since game 1. In fact, you could argue that Samus taking off her suit as a reward for winning quickly is one of the most subversively sexual things going on in video games, even if she is a strong feminine character the rest of the time.
Regarding the Zero Suit interface with the regular suit: My crotch says *blank stare* but my brain says *double blank stare*.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 03:19:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Regarding the Zero Suit: my brain says no but my crotch says "oh yes!"
Regarding the practicality of a jumpsuit under the armour: Meh, it's been this way since game 1. In fact, you could argue that Samus taking off her suit as a reward for winning quickly is one of the most subversively sexual things going on in video games, even if she is a strong feminine character the rest of the time.
Regarding the Zero Suit interface with the regular suit: My crotch says *blank stare* but my brain says *double blank stare*.
That's quite an original way to answer the questions. You have a good point on Question #2.
Post by: Kairon on August 10, 2007, 07:25:11 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 10, 2007, 07:25:52 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 07:54:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
NO MORE SUITLESS SAMUS!!!
Agreed, but remember that caps lock isn't cruise-control for awesome.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Kairon gets hard-ons for robo-suits, confirmed...
It's not a robot suit. It's a woman in power armor. Humanity and machine, separate but one, together forming something greater then the sum of its parts.
Or are you just afraid of strong women?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 10, 2007, 07:58:04 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 10, 2007, 08:00:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
I'm more afraid of this.
LOL.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 08:02:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
I'm more afraid of this.
XD Hilarious!
Post by: Kairon on August 10, 2007, 08:11:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
NO MORE SUITLESS SAMUS!!!
Agreed, but remember that caps lock isn't cruise-control for awesome.
It isn't? T_T
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 08:14:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
NO MORE SUITLESS SAMUS!!!
Agreed, but remember that caps lock isn't cruise-control for awesome.
It isn't? T_T
Nope. Srry.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 10, 2007, 11:23:13 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 11:32:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Yesterday's discussion was better than the whole new forum category.
Agreed.
I would also like to pint out that is the most active non-locked topic in this section, but Bill's update thread will probably surpass it soon.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 10, 2007, 11:53:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Or are you just afraid of strong women?
Samus' strength doesn't come from her suit...</cliche anime moral value>
But seriously, a "strong woman" who gets her power solely from an external power source isn't truly strong...That's why she's strong regardless of whether or not she has her suit... =)
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 12:03:08 PM
Quote
Samus' strength doesn't come from her suit...</cliche anime moral value>
That cliche is used in a lot more mediums then just anime.
Quote
But seriously, a "strong woman" who gets her power solely from an external power source isn't truly strong...That's why she's strong regardless of whether or not she has her suit... =)
Correction: A strong woman with the endurance to survive being infused with Chozo blood, years of intense training from practically the time she could walk and being able to take out an entire planet of foes alone and defeating each of the enemy commanders who happen to be aliens many times larger then her, all the while not showing any signs of fear or worry.
I was going mostly for mental strength and willpower.
Post by: Kairon on August 10, 2007, 01:21:16 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 01:24:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
The suit is a tool. The strength is in the one who wields it.
Exactly. Any bozo can slap on a suit of Power Armor and show off. But it takes a soldier to put that armor to the test on the battlefield.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 10, 2007, 01:33:29 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 01:35:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Iron Man is a LOL-ing alchoholic.
He's a flawed character, yes. I don't see the connection to the current debate.
Post by: nickmitch on August 10, 2007, 01:46:52 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 01:49:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
The suit.
Yes, Iron Man wears power armor. So do the TCA and Marines in Unreal II, the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout, Master chief in Halo and Space Marines from Warhammer 40k.
Does that make it any more relevant? Not really.
Post by: UERD on August 10, 2007, 02:07:17 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 02:13:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UERD
Bullcrap. It's all biological. Love, which resides in the heart, as well as lots and lots of anabolic steroids.
So, steroids are the answer?
Really, I'm sorry, but you need to elaborate. I have no idea what your post is referring to.
Post by: UERD on August 10, 2007, 02:19:41 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 10, 2007, 02:20:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UERD
Sorry, I'm a bit dazed. I guess this is what happens when you reply to a topic having only read the last post.
I know how you feel, mate.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 11, 2007, 02:55:32 PM
WARNING! LONG RAMBLING POST!I think the main issue I have with the Zero-Suit isn't the theory, it might be a neat twist on Samus' gameplay style. The problem I have is how sexualized she is. Now, that might be open to debate, but I think that the ultra skin-tight jumpsuit is sexualized. It also contrasts to her armor too much. The suit's got broad shoulders and appears built for someone who would be in good shape. By "good shape" I mean well-toned, not near anorexic like most video game heroines. But outside the suit the poor gal's skinny as a rail. Seriously, she looks more like a model then a soldier. Just like most cliché video game heroines.
Samus has, through most of the games, been presented as a stoic heroine, a world-weary warrior with seemingly no connections to any individual people. That's something that most games haven't touched on. Characters such as Link or Mario are mostly silent, but aren't stoic. Most heroes are either raging berserkers who are out to avenge something, military men fighting because it's their duty, or men struggling with an internal conflict or troubling past. Samus is none of these. Her actions against the Space Pirates are more because she's been hired to deal with them then out of revenge. She probably doesn't even remember her parents. After all, if she had wanted to strike at the pirates, she'd have done so long before the Federation hired her.
The gaming industry is pumped full of so-called "video game babes", female characters who really serve no purpose but to appease the fanbase. Bloodrayne, Lara Croft and any female Dead or Alive character come to mind. Totally one dimensional characters whose 3D image is meant only to be pleasing to a male audience. Now, maybe it's just because I've grown out of the "lol bewbs" age, but I prefer characters with, y'know, personality. Why would an experienced soldier wear some skimpy outfit instead of actual armor? There has been some that break the mold, like Alyx Vance (who, while not wearing armor, at least dresses normally), but the cliché is still going strong.
So that's it. I just don't want the so-called "First Lady of Gaming" to become another cliché.
[/rant]
Post by: Mashiro on August 11, 2007, 03:08:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
I think the main issue I have with the Zero-Suit isn't the theory, it might be a neat twist on Samus' gameplay style. The problem I have is how sexualized she is. Now, that might be open to debate, but I think that the ultra skin-tight jumpsuit is sexualized. It also contrasts to her armor too much. The suit's got broad shoulders and appears built for someone who would be in good shape. By "good shape" I mean well-toned, not near anorexic like most video game heroines. But outside the suit the poor gal's skinny as a rail. Seriously, she looks more like a model then a soldier. Just like most cliché video game heroines.
Samus has, through most of the games, been presented as a stoic heroine, a world-weary warrior with seemingly no connections to any individual people. That's something that most games haven't touched on. Characters such as Link or Mario are mostly silent, but aren't stoic. Most heroes are either raging berserkers who are out to avenge something, military men fighting because it's their duty, or men struggling with an internal conflict or troubling past. Samus is none of these. Her actions against the Space Pirates are more because she's been hired to deal with them then out of revenge. She probably doesn't even remember her parents. After all, if she had wanted to strike at the pirates, she'd have done so long before the Federation hired her.
The gaming industry is pumped full of so-called "video game babes", female characters who really serve no purpose but to appease the fanbase. Bloodrayne, Lara Croft and any female Dead or Alive character come to mind. Totally one dimensional characters whose 3D image is meant only to be pleasing to a male audience. Now, maybe it's just because I've grown out of the "lol bewbs" age, but I prefer characters with, y'know, personality. Why would an experienced soldier wear some skimpy outfit instead of actual armor? There has been some that break the mold, like Alyx Vance (who, while not wearing armor, at least dresses normally), but the cliché is still going strong.
So that's it. I just don't want the so-called "First Lady of Gaming" to become another cliché.
[/rant]
That was the best post on the whole Zero Suit debate thus far.
/clap
/agree
And I'll say it again, while they may be TRYING to sexualize here I think they fail horribly so it's not even like they succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. /shameonnintendo
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 11, 2007, 03:15:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
That was the best post on the whole Zero Suit debate thus far.
/clap
/agree
And I'll say it again, while they may be TRYING to sexualize here I think they fail horribly so it's not even like they succeeded in doing what they were trying to do. /shameonnintendo
Thanks. Posts like these are what you get when I've got too much time on my hands.
And I agree, she doesn't even look good. The hair, face and body don't resemble her at all.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 11, 2007, 03:20:50 PM
Post by: Ceric on August 11, 2007, 03:26:40 PM
Now on the whole Zero Suit thing. Samus has been leaving her suit since the first game. Its as much of her character as the Red and Yellow Power Armor is. I wish they would have kept the Purple hair because its a nod too that she isn't fully human even if it was done because of a limitted palette. By the end of this though it will be hard to say what she is.
I mean you have the Chozo who meddled with here, then Phazon corrupting here, and finally her suit fusing with with her allowing her to absorb X energy. Lets face it, Samus ain't having kids and insurance probably doesn't cover her. Yes, Samus is stoic and a little brooding. She embodies isolation itself most of the time. Their is only really one Metroid that I've played were Samus touches on her past and you get to hear some of her inner thoughts. Which I thought was done well. I think its a good thing to have something that does that sort of perpective every once in a while. Though I wouldn't make it an integrated part of the experience.
Throughout the other games, especially Prime, you learn about Samus from her Myth not from her. All those logs of the Space pirates who were terrified and held her in awe at the same time. In MP3 people are suppose to start talking about the legends of her deeds as you come near. Its an interesting way to tell a story. Its like have a narrator but being their in a way.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 11, 2007, 03:47:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Because you know better than Nintendo what Samus looks like.
I know not to change a character for no reason.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I don't know. Personally I think that Samus should be more toned and the like much like a ballerina, professional there realy realy buff all over when you see them in person. Though I don't think here model is aneroxic either. I mean Samus has some back to her. She doesn't seem to be as thins as rails.
I still say she's too skinny.
Quote
Now on the whole Zero Suit thing. Samus has been leaving her suit since the first game. Its as much of her character as the Red and Yellow Power Armor is. I wish they would have kept the Purple hair because its a nod too that she isn't fully human even if it was done because of a limitted palette. By the end of this though it will be hard to say what she is.
Hmmph, you raise a good point there. I always thought the out-of-suit thing seemed odd for her character. Taking the helmet off was fine, though. It's just this goes beyond just one moment at the end of a mission, but brings her closer to the cliché of near-naked warriors.
Quote
I mean you have the Chozo who meddled with here, then Phazon corrupting here, and finally her suit fusing with with her allowing her to absorb X energy. Lets face it, Samus ain't having kids and insurance probably doesn't cover her. Yes, Samus is stoic and a little brooding. She embodies isolation itself most of the time. Their is only really one Metroid that I've played were Samus touches on her past and you get to hear some of her inner thoughts. Which I thought was done well. I think its a good thing to have something that does that sort of perpective every once in a while. Though I wouldn't make it an integrated part of the experience.
Exactly. She's not fully human anymore, and that's something that add a lot to the story. There's a lot of depth to her, but it's not stated loudly.
Quote
Throughout the other games, especially Prime, you learn about Samus from her Myth not from her. All those logs of the Space pirates who were terrified and held her in awe at the same time. In MP3 people are suppose to start talking about the legends of her deeds as you come near. Its an interesting way to tell a story. Its like have a narrator but being their in a way.
I've been avoiding previews of MP3 so I don't spoil the plot, but that sounds like a brilliant move to me.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 11, 2007, 03:57:23 PM
I dunno, I know that if I had just busted my butt to save/destroy a planet, I'd want that power suit OFF...It's essentially a weapon, not a second skin... =3
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 11, 2007, 04:00:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Hmmph, you raise a good point there. I always thought the out-of-suit thing seemed odd for her character."
I dunno, I know that if I had just busted my butt to save/destroy a planet, I'd want that power suit OFF...It's essentially a weapon, not a second skin... =3
Actually, that is a good rebuttal.
Post by: UERD on August 11, 2007, 05:08:30 PM
Quote
Now, maybe it's just because I've grown out of the "lol bewbs" age, but I prefer characters with, y'know, personality.
The voice of reason shines down upon us tonight.
Although, to be fair, it could have been worse. There were Soul Caliber 2 promo images where you could see the nipples protruding through the cloth.
Post by: Dasmos on August 11, 2007, 05:55:55 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on August 11, 2007, 06:07:57 PM
Post by: Ceric on August 12, 2007, 01:57:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
It's getting far too popular. Samus demands her own sub-forum, exclusively for talking about her in Smash Bros. And with no clothessuit.
We have yet to start talking about O-Suit Samus.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 03:18:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
This is the worst thread in the history of anything.
I'm afraid these fine fellows have me beat in that aspect.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 12, 2007, 04:21:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Because you know better than Nintendo what Samus looks like.
I know not to change a character for no reason.
Changing her? Show me more detailed in-game models of Samus without her power suit.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 04:35:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Changing her? Show me more detailed in-game models of Samus without her power suit.
I meant changing her character, but I do remember there being a difference in her appearance in Metroid Prime 1 and Echoes. Now, Google Image search isn't being very helpful, so here's the best I can do:
There's Samus' face in Prime. Note the hair. It's not the horribly artificial yellow color that they try to call blond, nor is it in some funky 3 1/2 foot pony tail with huge bangs.
I don't have any other evidence, but I think in Echoes Retro went back to the Zero Suit. Why I don't know...
Post by: stevey on August 12, 2007, 06:38:28 AM
and MP2 isn't much different
Sure her hair longer and she redied it a different blond, but 2 takes place 8 month~ after MP1 so it would be weird if she didn't have a different haircut.
Post by: Mashiro on August 12, 2007, 07:11:58 AM
Screw the Zero Suit. Down with the Zero Suit!
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 12, 2007, 07:37:50 AM
Post by: mantidor on August 12, 2007, 08:20:03 AM
Again, Super Metroid did it great, a girl with defined muscles, because its only logical with the whole training and giant armor wearing, still, long hair and cute underwear are unrealistic which is why I really don't mind the skin tight suit, it also makes sense.
If you think about it its illogical she's going to wear a bikini, she should be naked! is an incredibly advanced armor made by an alien race, what is the point of wearing underwear? of course there would be riots with a female shown naked sadly*, so the skinsuit is a perfect compromise, I always saw it as a perfect interface with the big suit, it even has some weird connections in the back.
The real bad thing about that model is the ridiculous haircut, super model body and, most importantly, how now magically comes off, we all know theres only one reason this happened in ZM and will happen in Brawl.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Throughout the other games, especially Prime, you learn about Samus from her Myth not from her. All those logs of the Space pirates who were terrified and held her in awe at the same time. In MP3 people are suppose to start talking about the legends of her deeds as you come near. Its an interesting way to tell a story. Its like have a narrator but being their in a way.
I loved that except for the bit when everyone knew she was a female human. Yes I know the gimmick "surprise Samus is a girl!" is old and tired, but the Metroid universe from the first title was based in how "his true form was shrouded in mystery", no one should know she's a woman, the shouldn't even now she's human!
*actually Homeworld pull it off incredibly well with Karen S'jet, a character who is indeed naked and connected to a giant mothership, and she never felt sexualized at all, I'm sad to say this but she's now a better female character than what Nintendo turned Samus into.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 12, 2007, 08:49:04 AM
Amazing how Mashiro + mantidor = universal! Could I see the steps you took to come up with that formula? =O
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 10:03:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
No, MP1 had same the pony tail....
<Image clipped to save space>
and MP2 isn't much different
<Image clipped to save space>
<Image clipped to save space>
Sure her hair longer and she redied it a different blond, but 2 takes place 8 month~ after MP1 so it would be weird if she didn't have a different haircut.
Alright, finally found a pic from Echoes:
Her face is totally changed, and she has a completely different hair style. Frankly, it makes me glad I didn't get around to beating the last boss... She looks terrible.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
More like crappy, generic realistic direction the series never was about in the first place...
So the series direction is generic cliché Dead or Alive chick wannabe?
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
The MP1 look is universally loved and the ZM look unversally hated (except for Bill of course). Its just absurd how Nintendo pretends to deny this.
Again, Super Metroid did it great, a girl with defined muscles, because its only logical with the whole training and giant armor wearing, still, long hair and cute underwear are unrealistic which is why I really don't mind the skin tight suit, it also makes sense.
Agreed.
Quote
If you think about it its illogical she's going to wear a bikini, she should be naked! is an incredibly advanced armor made by an alien race, what is the point of wearing underwear? of course there would be riots with a female shown naked sadly*, so the skinsuit is a perfect compromise, I always saw it as a perfect interface with the big suit, it even has some weird connections in the back.
Wait, oh, you're right. It does have some connection spots. I still wish it had more technical bits. I'd expect some padding at least so she isn't bruised to hell when the mission is finally over.
Quote
The real bad thing about that model is the ridiculous haircut, super model body and, most importantly, how now magically comes off, we all know theres only one reason this happened in ZM and will happen in Brawl.Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric<Snip>
I loved that except for the bit when everyone knew she was a female human. Yes I know the gimmick "surprise Samus is a girl!" is old and tired, but the Metroid universe from the first title was based in how "his true form was shrouded in mystery", no one should know she's a woman, the shouldn't even now she's human!
You do bring up a good point. The "SHE'S A GIRL?!?" shock isn't there anymore, and she's going to need a new direction. Unfortunately, it seems both of us don't like the direction Nintendo's taking her.
Quote
*actually Homeworld pull it off incredibly well with Karen S'jet, a character who is indeed naked and connected to a giant mothership, and she never felt sexualized at all, I'm sad to say this but she's now a better female character than what Nintendo turned Samus into.
Well, that makes prefect sense. She's inside a giant ship and doesn't need to be move, or worry about getting shot as she's inside it's hull. And yeah, it saddens me too.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"The MP1 look is universally loved and the ZM look unversally hated (except for Bill of course). Its just absurd how Nintendo pretends to deny this."
Amazing how Mashiro + mantidor = universal! Could I see the steps you took to come up with that formula? =O
You forgot me in that list. Sadly Bill, you're outvoted. >=).
Post by: Mashiro on August 12, 2007, 10:13:26 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 12, 2007, 10:13:54 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 10:19:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Uh oh, I see universal opinions are determined by endless fanboy whining... =3
Or democracy. It's three against one. U LOZE!!!!1!11!
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 12, 2007, 10:23:35 AM
*giant novelty mallet over Stabby's head*
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 10:26:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
You fail at the term "universal"!
*giant novelty mallet over Stabby's head*
*BONK*
Uh, ow?
Well, he said universal except for Bill, so it still holds water. And even if not universal, it's the majority.
Also, you haven't refuted my rebuttals. Heh heh heh...
Post by: mantidor on August 12, 2007, 10:31:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Uh oh, I see universal opinions are determined by endless fanboy whining... =3
We need to fill up this new smash forum! I don't know a better way than to whine
I'm not basing my opinion on a hunch though, every single comment on videos of youtube or gametrailers, every single metroid thread I've read here and elsewhere, hell even this article, everyone, everywhere seems to agree. MP1 samus > mp2/ZM samus.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 12, 2007, 10:38:46 AM
Because only whiners make threads on the internet...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 12, 2007, 10:42:30 AM
Will it ever end?
This thread proves that there is a clash between the fans' view on Samus and the creators' view on Samus.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 10:58:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Oh Samus, your little outfits are the cause of many a whining!
Will it ever end?
This thread proves that there is a clash between the fans' view on Samus and the creators' view on Samus.
Time to see if supply and demand works.
Post by: Ceric on August 12, 2007, 11:46:39 AM
Anyways, from the pictures that I've seen in this thread I have to agree with everyone who says MP1 Samus is better than all the ones afterwards. I still think she needs to be less human looking.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 12:04:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
My Children. Stop fighting...
Anyways, from the pictures that I've seen in this thread I have to agree with everyone who says MP1 Samus is better than all the ones afterwards. I still think she needs to be less human looking.
That's the direction they need to be taking her. Sexualizing her makes her more human, when she should be going the other way. There's a lot they could do with that path.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 12, 2007, 12:35:20 PM
I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are actually comparing ZSS to the girls from DOA. Even if they changed her character design for the sole purpose (which I am not saying was the reason for the ZS design) of injecting some sort of sexuality into the Metroid series they did not go anywhere near the level of games like DOA, and a lot may argue they went in the direct opposite direction.
Another thing is a lot of you seem to equate being pretty or sexy to being weak, which simply is not true. For example, I once met a female Russian Olympic Gymnast who was built, in the since of muscle tone and fatty tissue (which includes the breast, which I have a feeling is at the heart of the issue, since if you have breast you are not athletic and you must be a whore, or at least that is how most people think in my observation), almost exactly how I would say that ZSS is, given a comparison to a stylized hand drawn character who is supposed to be six foot two and almost 200 lbs and a real life person who was probably a little over five foot and weighed probably 130 - 140 lbs. If you ask me a gymnast's body would be more conducive to Samus' way of life then say a body builders, considering all the jumping she does and the lack of real heavy lifting. Regardless of all that, maybe the Chozo blood effects her metabolism in such a way that it causes her to look like that.
Post by: stevey on August 12, 2007, 12:37:14 PM
Quote
The MP1 look is universally loved and the ZM look unversally hated (except for Bill of course). Its just absurd how Nintendo pretends to deny this.
I'm with bill (oh god I'm slowly becoming bill =O), MP1 Samus did look realistic (it looks just like a real person 360 eat your heart out) but it really bland with no personalty while the brawl model look more toony than realistic but she actually has an personalty to her instead.
Quote
Her face is totally changed, and she has a completely different hair style.
Her hair the same just a few inch longer all around
Quote
Frankly, it makes me glad I didn't get around to beating the last boss...
New law of the internet: if you haven't beaten Metroid Prime games or bitch about backtracking you are forbidden to talk about metroid or call yourself a metroid fanboy
Quote
She looks terrible.
Her face is vomit MP2 I give you that, but brawl model is perfect.
Post by: Ceric on August 12, 2007, 01:32:04 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 12, 2007, 01:45:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Personally I don't mind the body but after actually seeing how they did her head in Prime 1, I much prefer that way. I think she should look a little more realistic then the other Nintendo characters because her game is more serious and realistic then the other icons.
I guess a game where someone can be infused with an alien species' blood and not have their body immediately reject it, or a game where one could fight a dragon that has the ability to fly in the vacuum of space, or a game where a powerful galactic civilization would send a single person on a mission that has already killed two groups of trained soldiers could be called realistic.
Post by: Shecky on August 12, 2007, 02:09:09 PM
The other characters have "highlights" in the hair so that it doesn't look like one glob of solid color. Why not ZSS?
Edit: I'll also note that those development room sketches look nothing like the final product in MP2. I would have tolerated something that actually looked like that sketch.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 12, 2007, 02:14:34 PM
Cry moar.
Post by: Kairon on August 12, 2007, 02:25:11 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 12, 2007, 02:38:05 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 12, 2007, 03:04:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Nintendo fans have finally joined the rest of popular culture in obsessing so much over a single woman's body.
The ironic thing is that YOU STARTED IT!
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 03:17:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I for one like the look of ZS Samus in SSB and ZM, but she looked horrible in MP2 (which I can say with a clear conscience seeing as how i am about the only one here who has beat it), not because she was too "sexy" but because the style used was too "anime" and did not fit within the context of the rest of MP2, or the Prime series as a whole, and in my opinion they should have used they style that Samus' face was done in for MP2.
That would explain the hair.
Quote
I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are actually comparing ZSS to the girls from DOA. Even if they changed her character design for the sole purpose (which I am not saying was the reason for the ZS design) of injecting some sort of sexuality into the Metroid series they did not go anywhere near the level of games like DOA, and a lot may argue they went in the direct opposite direction.
I do find that she's being led a bit in that direction. Now, the comparison isn't really warranted yet, but it's a possibility.
Quote
Another thing is a lot of you seem to equate being pretty or sexy to being weak, which simply is not true. For example, I once met a female Russian Olympic Gymnast who was built, in the since of muscle tone and fatty tissue (which includes the breast, which I have a feeling is at the heart of the issue, since if you have breast you are not athletic and you must be a whore, or at least that is how most people think in my observation), almost exactly how I would say that ZSS is, given a comparison to a stylized hand drawn character who is supposed to be six foot two and almost 200 lbs and a real life person who was probably a little over five foot and weighed probably 130 - 140 lbs. If you ask me a gymnast's body would be more conducive to Samus' way of life then say a body builders, considering all the jumping she does and the lack of real heavy lifting. Regardless of all that, maybe the Chozo blood effects her metabolism in such a way that it causes her to look like that.
Apparently you took my "lol bewbs" comment out of context. The complaints I have about Samus' frame are mostly that she just seemed too skinny and her shoulders should be broader. You do raise a good point about her being more gymnastic, but she's still labeled a warrior, and chances are she would do some wight training at least.
Your mentioning of her height though counters your entire argument, however. If she's meant to be 6'3''and 200 pounds, why doesn't she look it?
Quote
I'm with bill (oh god I'm slowly becoming bill =O), MP1 Samus did look realistic (it looks just like a real person 360 eat your heart out) but it really bland with no personalty while the brawl model look more toony than realistic but she actually has an personalty to her instead.
I don't know about you, but as far as personality goes, the MP2 model looked like they tried and failed to add personality to her. But that's just me.
Quote
Her hair the same just a few inch longer all around
And wider, and that horrible color.
Quote
New law of the internet: if you haven't beaten Metroid Prime games or bitch about backtracking you are forbidden to talk about metroid or call yourself a metroid fanboy
HEY! I LOVED the Prime games! I beat MP1 and the reason I didn't beat MP2 was because upon getting the Light Suit I got too distracted exploring places I had missed. I LOVE exploring.
Quote
Her face is vomit MP2 I give you that, but brawl model is perfect.
Yeah, I must admit the model is no longer painful to look at.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Personally I don't mind the body but after actually seeing how they did her head in Prime 1, I much prefer that way. I think she should look a little more realistic then the other Nintendo characters because her game is more serious and realistic then the other icons.
Agreed.
Quote
I guess a game where someone can be infused with an alien species' blood and not have their body immediately reject it, or a game where one could fight a dragon that has the ability to fly in the vacuum of space, or a game where a powerful galactic civilization would send a single person on a mission that has already killed two groups of trained soldiers could be called realistic.
Compared to a game where you play as a fat Italian plumber fighting giant turtles and walking mushrooms to save a princess, yes it is realistic. :P
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
Really, the "plastic" and uniform hair is the big "WHY?" for me. I mean even Bowser has better hair (or Zelda, Link, Pit).
The other characters have "highlights" in the hair so that it doesn't look like one glob of solid color. Why not ZSS?
Exactly! I've NEVER seen anyone with hair that yellow.
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Cry moar.
If you insist
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Nintendo fans have finally joined the rest of popular culture in obsessing so much over a single woman's body.
Well, that's one way to look at it.
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.
And your point is...?
Post by: nickmitch on August 12, 2007, 04:36:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.
And your point is...?
Actually, that was my point.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 04:38:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.
And your point is...?
Actually, that was my point.
I see. And why...?
Post by: anubis6789 on August 12, 2007, 05:31:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I for one like the look of ZS Samus in SSB and ZM, but she looked horrible in MP2 (which I can say with a clear conscience seeing as how i am about the only one here who has beat it), not because she was too "sexy" but because the style used was too "anime" and did not fit within the context of the rest of MP2, or the Prime series as a whole, and in my opinion they should have used they style that Samus' face was done in for MP2.
That would explain the hair.
I am sure that Nintendo forced Retro to use a model as close to the character design in Zero Mission as possible, to cross connect the two games as was done with MP1 and Fusion, resulting in a mess of styles that should probably be purged (preferably with fire) from any re-release of MP2 with a more fitting character model.
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are actually comparing ZSS to the girls from DOA. Even if they changed her character design for the sole purpose (which I am not saying was the reason for the ZS design) of injecting some sort of sexuality into the Metroid series they did not go anywhere near the level of games like DOA, and a lot may argue they went in the direct opposite direction.
I do find that she's being led a bit in that direction. Now, the comparison isn't really warranted yet, but it's a possibility.
I just do not think that Nintendo would ever lead any of their characters directly into that kind of over sexualized oblivion, and the odds are on the side that they will not, considering, to my knowledge, they never have done it before.
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Another thing is a lot of you seem to equate being pretty or sexy to being weak, which simply is not true. For example, I once met a female Russian Olympic Gymnast who was built, in the since of muscle tone and fatty tissue (which includes the breast, which I have a feeling is at the heart of the issue, since if you have breast you are not athletic and you must be a whore, or at least that is how most people think in my observation), almost exactly how I would say that ZSS is, given a comparison to a stylized hand drawn character who is supposed to be six foot two and almost 200 lbs and a real life person who was probably a little over five foot and weighed probably 130 - 140 lbs. If you ask me a gymnast's body would be more conducive to Samus' way of life then say a body builders, considering all the jumping she does and the lack of real heavy lifting. Regardless of all that, maybe the Chozo blood effects her metabolism in such a way that it causes her to look like that.
Apparently you took my "lol bewbs" comment out of context. The complaints I have about Samus' frame are mostly that she just seemed too skinny and her shoulders should be broader. You do raise a good point about her being more gymnastic, but she's still labeled a warrior, and chances are she would do some wight training at least.
Your mentioning of her height though counters your entire argument, however. If she's meant to be 6'3''and 200 pounds, why doesn't she look it?
I do not think that a warrior has to have any well defined muscle to be good at what they do, some have it, some do not, and I have been around enough people to know that well defined muscle does not equal strength. As for broad shoulders, those are determined by bone structure.
I meant the hight and weight measurements more as a proportional scale, I do not see how it counters my argument though, a tall person should weigh more than a shorter person of the same build. As to why she may seem short in SSB, I ask you why does Kirby seem so tall?
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I guess a game where someone can be infused with an alien species' blood and not have their body immediately reject it, or a game where one could fight a dragon that has the ability to fly in the vacuum of space, or a game where a powerful galactic civilization would send a single person on a mission that has already killed two groups of trained soldiers could be called realistic.
Compared to a game where you play as a fat Italian plumber fighting giant turtles and walking mushrooms to save a princess, yes it is realistic. :P
Well, that comment was meant as a joke, but I could counter by saying that the term realistic is subjective and that how you and I would define the term would be different. I would consider Metroid within the same realm as I put Star Wars, i.e. Fantasy Sci-Fi, and as such it does not have to confirm to certain rules that govern reality, how else can you explain her being able to turn into a morph ball?
Post by: nickmitch on August 12, 2007, 05:45:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.
And your point is...?
Actually, that was my point.
I see. And why...?
Why what? (I apologize for answering your question with another question.)
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 05:49:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I am sure that Nintendo forced Retro to use a model as close to the character design in Zero Mission as possible, to cross connect the two games as was done with MP1 and Fusion, resulting in a mess of styles that should probably be purged (preferably with fire) from any re-release of MP2 with a more fitting character model.
That's a good explanation. And I agree, fire is the universal handyman.
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
I just do not think that Nintendo would ever lead any of their characters directly into that kind of over sexualized oblivion, and the odds are on the side that they will not, considering, to my knowledge, they never have done it before.
Good rebuttal. Eased my fears a good bit, but I still don't like the Zero Suit...
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I do not think that a warrior has to have any well defined muscle to be good at what they do, some have it, some do not, and I have been around enough people to know that well defined muscle does not equal strength. As for broad shoulders, those are determined by bone structure.
Well, someone shoulder's do look broader if they have been working out.
Quote
I meant the hight and weight measurements more as a proportional scale, I do not see how it counters my argument though, a tall person should weigh more than a shorter person of the same build. As to why she may seem short in SSB, I ask you why does Kirby seem so tall?
Alright, bear with me here. I did some "maths" (the formulas of which are probably broken) to come to my conclusion. I took Samus' weight (200) divided by her height (did some bad fraction-rounding, decided on 6.2) and got ~32 as an answer. I did the same with your estimations of the gymnast (140/5=~28), so I figured Samus must have more muscle mass.
Feel free to shoot my poor reasoning down. I'll be the first to admit it won't hold water.
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Well, that comment was meant as a joke, but I could counter by saying that the term realistic is subjective and that how you and I would define the term would be different. I would consider Metroid within the same realm as I put Star Wars, i.e. Fantasy Sci-Fi, and as such it does not have to confirm to certain rules that govern reality, how else can you explain her being able to turn into a morph ball?
Actually, my response was also a joke, but the smilie didn't come through. Metroid is pretty far from hard sci-fi.
EDIT:
Quote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.
And your point is...?
Actually, that was my point.
I see. And why...?
Why what? (I apologize for answering your question with another question.)
Why not?
Post by: nickmitch on August 12, 2007, 05:56:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
This thread should be locked for being stupid.
And your point is...?
Actually, that was my point.
I see. And why...?
Why what? (I apologize for answering your question with another question.)
Why not?
Because that's just silly.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 05:59:28 PM
I would like to point out that this thread has hit 100 posts before any others in this section (the megathread doesn't count).
What do the nay-sayers have to say about that besides "Nay"?
Post by: anubis6789 on August 12, 2007, 06:11:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Well, someone shoulder's do look broader if they have been working out.
It still usually comes down to there body structure.
Quote
Alright, bear with me here. I did some "maths" (the formulas of which are probably broken) to come to my conclusion. I took Samus' weight (200) divided by her height (did some bad fraction-rounding, decided on 6.2) and got ~32 as an answer. I did the same with your estimations of the gymnast (140/5=~28), so I figured Samus must have more muscle mass.
Feel free to shoot my poor reasoning down. I'll be the first to admit it won't hold water.
I think your "maths" are correct, although the divergence is not really that big in my opinion, but then again Samus could have a heavier skeleton , or, since she would be taller, she would have more surface area for muscle to be, thus, even with the same rough build, she would still have more muscle mass, but that could be wrong.
Quote
Actually, my response was also a joke, but the smilie didn't come through. Metroid is pretty far from hard sci-fi.
oh, the smilie came through, I just ignored it.
I just like to argue.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 12, 2007, 06:17:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
It still usually comes down to there body structure.
Yes, but I can see a clear difference between someone who hasn't been working out and the same person when they have.
Quote
I think your "maths" are correct, although the divergence is not really that big in my opinion, but then again Samus could have a heavier skeleton , or, since she would be taller, she would have more surface area for muscle to be, thus, even with the same rough build, she would still have more muscle mass, but that could be wrong.
It's no algorithm, but I still think it might be enough evidence to support her being more muscular then depicted. Your suggestions are reasonable, though.
Quote
I just like to argue.
Same here.
Post by: nickmitch on August 12, 2007, 06:28:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Alright, thanks for putting this as post #100. Sorry for screwing with you there, TVMan.
It's cool. I was having fun.
Quote
What do the nay-sayers have to say about that besides "Nay"?
Quote
This thread should be locked for being stupid.
Post by: mantidor on August 12, 2007, 06:32:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
This thread honestly makes me want to die. Could you people possibly find anything more inane to complain about "Oh noes, I don't like the way they're portraying a character who never had a uniform appearance to begin with."
Cry moar.
haha I finally find out the use of this new forum thanks to you, if this discussion was in the megathread, I would personally had cut it off the same way you are doing, but now this is its own thread, so if you don't like it just don't click on it!
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Oh Samus, your little outfits are the cause of many a whining!
Will it ever end?
This thread proves that there is a clash between the fans' view on Samus and the creators' view on Samus.
The funny thing is that it's obvious this new direction Nintendo made for Samus was mostly done to atract the japanese audience. I don't know if it was succesful or not, but the game will always sell and be more popular in this part of the ocean, so why try? all they are doing is ruining it for the rest of us. I hope nintendo just stop trying this remake of metroid's whole image, let it be what it is, neither anime looking nor halo-ish or generic fps.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 12, 2007, 07:11:03 PM
That is how ZSS should look within the context of a "realistic" (read: western style) Metroid game (I am looking at you MP2).
Do not think though that I find the more "anime" style ZSS any less deserving of being part of the Metroid series, I like them both.
EDIT: Some things I forgot to mention; I was trying to get this clip off of my copy of the game but my camera would not cooperate, thus I looked for it on youtube, also, I really like MPH, but every Metroid fan I have talked to hates it, thus the comparison with Zelda II (which is tied for my second favorite Zelda game), because MPH also shares it's fate as the redheaded stepchild of it's series.
Post by: Kairon on August 12, 2007, 07:16:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Just in case anyone would like to see Samus' zero suit appearance in the Zelda II of Metroids, MPH, here is an extremely spoiler filled and somewhat fuzzy video.
Hey, that's actually a quarter of the ways decent... still not great, but nothing exceptionally horrible.
Post by: Mashiro on August 12, 2007, 07:41:11 PM
So oh well . . . they killed our super awesome Samus, at least she's in her armor most of the time.
Samus is dead to me DEAD I TELLS YAS!
Post by: Dasmos on August 12, 2007, 09:08:55 PM
QuoteThat doesn't make this a good thread. Anyway I'd say about 40% of the posts are you yourself whining.
Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Alright, thanks for putting this as post #100. Sorry for screwing with you there, TVMan.
I would like to point out that this thread has hit 100 posts before any others in this section (the megathread doesn't count).
What do the nay-sayers have to say about that besides "Nay"?
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 13, 2007, 03:47:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
The funny thing is that it's obvious this new direction Nintendo made for Samus was mostly done to atract the japanese audience. I don't know if it was succesful or not, but the game will always sell and be more popular in this part of the ocean, so why try? all they are doing is ruining it for the rest of us. I hope nintendo just stop trying this remake of metroid's whole image, let it be what it is, neither anime looking nor halo-ish or generic fps.
Agreed.
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Originally posted by: anubis6789
Just in case anyone would like to see Samus' zero suit appearance in the Zelda II of Metroids, MPH, here is an extremely spoiler filled and somewhat fuzzy video.
That is how ZSS should look within the context of a "realistic" (read: western style) Metroid game (I am looking at you MP2).
Do not think though that I find the more "anime" style ZSS any less deserving of being part of the Metroid series, I like them both.
EDIT: Some things I forgot to mention; I was trying to get this clip off of my copy of the game but my camera would not cooperate, thus I looked for it on youtube, also, I really like MPH, but every Metroid fan I have talked to hates it, thus the comparison with Zelda II (which is tied for my second favorite Zelda game), because MPH also shares it's fate as the redheaded stepchild of it's series.
I've got to agree, her look in that movie is worlds better.
Never got around to finishing MP:H. Not that I didn't like the game, I just got addicted to Advance Wars right afterward.
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
That doesn't make this a good thread. Anyway I'd say about 40% of the posts are you yourself whining.
And whining about whiners makes you better how?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 13, 2007, 03:29:52 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 14, 2007, 04:19:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Because our whining would never have started if you hadn't been whining first.
Remove the whine, and internet forums would be boring places.
Anyway, I just remembered that a lot of Half-Life 2 saw massive redesigns. One such example is that Alyx Vance was originally going to be the daughter of General Vance (originally a different character then Eli) and had a bit tougher personality. She also had a totally different outfit. That outfit would fit much better. It's still a form-fitting jumpsuit, but nowhere near as tight. The boots, belt and jacket look good on it, too.
I think that that wold be a good change for the Zero Suit. Even without the jacket and boots, it would still look better if it wasn't so tight.
Post by: KDR_11k on August 14, 2007, 09:58:23 PM
Post by: mantidor on August 15, 2007, 06:19:59 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 15, 2007, 06:24:12 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 15, 2007, 06:39:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
What is Samus's official height and weight again? I couldn't find it. We could just figure out her BMI to see if its realistic for what she does.
I think it was 6 feet three inches, and 198 pounds.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 15, 2007, 08:01:37 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 15, 2007, 08:03:28 AM
Ironic no?
(Now take in account it is assumed that the person has the average mixture of muscle and fat. If you're all muscle this is relatively useless.)
Post by: Kairon on August 15, 2007, 01:24:57 PM
WHAT NEXT? SAMUS HAS A BABY BUMP?!?!?
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 15, 2007, 01:50:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Cedric
24.7. Now if you say she is a women between 20-29 she is in the 63rd percentile and is just overweight.
Ironic no?
(Now take in account it is assumed that the person has the average mixture of muscle and fat. If you're all muscle this is relatively useless.)
Interesting. Muscle weighs more then fat, so it's possible she's got more muscle then fat, suggesting she should be more muscular in design.
Or the Developers just chose some numbers off the top of their heads.
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Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
I'm sure that's with the suit on. Otherwise she's huger than PS3.
So the suit weighs less then 50 pounds?
I'd sooner think the devs just pulled some numbers out of their ass. Which they probably did.
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
SAMUS HAS A BABY BUMP?!?!?
REALLY?!?
Post by: nickmitch on August 15, 2007, 02:03:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
SAMUS HAS A BABY BUMP?!?!?
REALLY?!?
Yup. That was me. I'm a pimp. What can I say?
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 15, 2007, 02:36:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
What can I say?
Well, I would say you should say "That was me", but you already did. So yeah... I dunno.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 15, 2007, 04:01:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sir_StabbalotQuoteQuote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
I'm sure that's with the suit on. Otherwise she's huger than PS3.
So the suit weighs less then 50 pounds?
I'd sooner think the devs just pulled some numbers out of their ass. Which they probably did.
Probably. I mean, 6'3" is huge.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 15, 2007, 04:11:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Probably. I mean, 6'3" is huge.
Huge, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's around how tall they wanted her to be. After all, one of the best ways to put a hero apart from others is sheer height. It makes them seem more powerful. Most epic heroes are described that way.
Post by: nickmitch on August 15, 2007, 04:28:03 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 15, 2007, 04:45:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Samus is an amazon confirmed.
Heh. I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of characters could be compared to amazons.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 15, 2007, 08:00:21 PM
Their is also a difference between looking muscular and having muscle; if I remember correctly, someone can look more muscular if they dehydrate themselves, which means that looking muscular does not equal being healthy nor is it the true measure of someone's muscular makeup.
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2007, 08:17:48 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 16, 2007, 01:09:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
As far as Samus' Height and Weight are concerned, it appears that those numbers that I used only appeared in the Metroid II manual and the NP Player's Guide for Super Metroid, and have not been seen since, so they might have been retconned, or were just made up like Sir_Stabbalot mentioned and are no longer canonical.
At least, that's what I think. I mean, if this had been a series where story is important (such as, say, Fallout), then it would matter. But since it's been mentioned so few times I think it's no longer valid.
Quote
Their is also a difference between looking muscular and having muscle; if I remember correctly, someone can look more muscular if they dehydrate themselves, which means that looking muscular does not equal being healthy nor is it the true measure of someone's muscular makeup.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I have to agree with the looking muscular thing. My Dad started working out hardcore for a couple years. He never got any skinnier or bulkier. He just looked the same but could lift more.
Hmm, good points. But I still say that Samus should look stronger then she does now. I mean, in this picture she looks skinny as a rail. Or it could just be the way she's turned.
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2007, 02:14:10 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 16, 2007, 02:25:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I think what your hung up on is her waist. The rest of her is pretty filled out maybe even going to the thick side but then all of sudden out of nowhere she has this size 2 waist.
Exactly.
Why is it that someone can always explain what I'm saying better then I can?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 16, 2007, 03:38:56 PM
Post by: Ceric on August 17, 2007, 02:59:55 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 17, 2007, 09:56:54 AM
Of course, the whole fusing-with-Metroid thing would have some really nasty side-effects. She'd be far from pretty.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 17, 2007, 11:07:30 AM
Post by: Mikintosh on August 19, 2007, 09:42:50 AM
Actually, the cover's pretty kick-ass so never mind. And what's so farfetched about the suit weighing 50 (more likely 70, actually) pounds? This isn't Mechassault; the Samus is fairly mobile in the suit, and anything heavier wouldn't be feasible for anybody except a carnival strongman to use.
And I don't think 6'3" is terrible extreme; I'm seen girls around that height, and they look about what the ZSS character design is.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 19, 2007, 10:04:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Hey, at least Samus doesn't have this design.
Heh. good point.
Quote
Actually, the cover's pretty kick-ass so never mind. And what's so far fetched about the suit weighing 50 (more likely 70, actually) pounds? This isn't Mechassault; the Samus is fairly mobile in the suit, and anything heavier wouldn't be feasible for anybody except a carnival strongman to use.
Now, while we're not dealing with hard science, I'd expect the suit to weight a lot. Not 250+ pounds, but easily 100. Remember, it's Power Armor, built to increase the user's abilities with motors in the joints to increase strength.
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And I don't think 6'3" is terrible extreme; I'm seen girls around that height, and they look about what the ZSS character design is.
The height isn't the problem, it's the weight. As I've said before, her waist is way to skinny.
Post by: Ceric on August 19, 2007, 03:28:29 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 20, 2007, 01:42:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Yeah. I could see the suit even being 500 pounds. In the end the suit doesn't need a body to move. It just needs intelligence. I'm sorry but its the Chozo DNA we are talking about being infused into hers. They are scaley and mostly purple. Now I know that the Chozo didn't find a way to make here more then just the little bit she is safely because they made the suit for her instead of just letting here grow her own armor. In the end though I still think that their should be some physical trait that would manifest itself with how vastly different they are.
"Chozo DNA"? Are you sure about that? I've only heard it said she was infused with Chozo blood, which could mean any number of things. It could be purely internal changes, or massive mutations, but I'm betting the former.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 20, 2007, 01:57:25 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 20, 2007, 03:07:57 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on August 21, 2007, 11:13:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Purely internal changes don't make you able to jump twenty feet in the air on a planet that has enough gravity to crush a normal man. (Without suit, mind you)
Your argument is self-defeating, as you know that because of the out-of-suit segments where it's clear she has no massive mutation externally.
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Originally posted by: Professional 666
She takes viagra.
...Interesting.
Post by: Ceric on August 22, 2007, 01:54:43 AM
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Originally posted by: Professional 666
She takes viagra.
Samus has a heart condition!! 'O'
Post by: mantidor on August 23, 2007, 06:03:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Hey, at least Samus doesn't have this design.
Actually, the cover's pretty kick-ass so never mind. And what's so farfetched about the suit weighing 50 (more likely 70, actually) pounds? This isn't Mechassault; the Samus is fairly mobile in the suit, and anything heavier wouldn't be feasible for anybody except a carnival strongman to use.
And I don't think 6'3" is terrible extreme; I'm seen girls around that height, and they look about what the ZSS character design is.
That design is a million times better than the current one.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 24, 2007, 05:43:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Hey, at least Samus doesn't have this design.
Actually, the cover's pretty kick-ass so never mind. And what's so farfetched about the suit weighing 50 (more likely 70, actually) pounds? This isn't Mechassault; the Samus is fairly mobile in the suit, and anything heavier wouldn't be feasible for anybody except a carnival strongman to use.
And I don't think 6'3" is terrible extreme; I'm seen girls around that height, and they look about what the ZSS character design is.
That design is a million times better than the current one.
Hahaha. Oh wow.
Post by: mantidor on October 05, 2007, 03:33:14 AM
Notice how its VERY rare that she doesn't appear in the screenshots of the update site, when we have a dozen of other characters and her character is more of a special one that only appears under certain conditions. And whats more obvious, she's always shown in her zero suit.
Samus is going to end up dead to me if this trend in Nintendo continues, which makes extremely sad.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 05, 2007, 06:50:29 AM
Retro should've shown her in the back of the gunship in a bubble bath. And you know they can pull of the bubble effects well.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on October 06, 2007, 03:55:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Samus is going to end up dead to me if this trend in Nintendo continues, which makes extremely sad.
ITT people take video games WAY too seriously.
Post by: Mashiro on October 06, 2007, 08:08:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Samus is going to end up dead to me if this trend in Nintendo continues, which makes extremely sad.
ITT people take video games WAY too seriously.
Tell that to the people who think insulting Killer7 is like slapping their first born child. AMIRITE people?
Post by: mantidor on October 11, 2007, 02:26:26 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 11, 2007, 02:28:26 PM
Post by: Sessha on October 11, 2007, 02:28:39 PM
Post by: mantidor on October 11, 2007, 03:07:39 PM
I hope the chozo are involved, I mean they have to, the armor coming from nowhere would seem pretty lame.
Post by: vudu on October 12, 2007, 07:13:19 AM
QuoteThere might not be one because you're only supposed to get one Final Smash per match. If you're playing at ZSS you've already used a Final Smash.
Originally posted by: mantidor
There has to be an attack, why would there not be one?
Post by: mantidor on October 12, 2007, 10:04:38 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 12, 2007, 10:16:08 AM
The only thing the hands-on impressions said was that it returns her to Chozo Suit form...
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 16, 2007, 06:52:46 AM
It was said to do alittle damage to people but not much. As for whether she retains the damage received I dunno. I would hope it would heal her some, as it would make sense and since it doesn't do much damage should work.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on October 16, 2007, 10:19:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
you're only supposed to get one Final Smash per match. If you're playing at ZSS you've already used a Final Smash.
Except that was debunked as soon as people played it.
Post by: JonLeung on October 16, 2007, 12:42:59 PM
Post by: Mashiro on October 16, 2007, 01:16:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
If it IS the Crystal Flash, does she regenerate health?
I'd hope so, seeing as that's the entire point of the crystal flash =D
Post by: anubis6789 on October 16, 2007, 06:59:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
If it IS the Crystal Flash, does she regenerate health?
I'd hope so, seeing as that's the entire point of the crystal flash =D
One could say that getting the armor reformed is, in a sense, healing couldn't they?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 16, 2007, 08:17:08 PM
