Post by: Pale on June 19, 2007, 01:53:15 PM
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=13658
Kotaku is reporting that Take-Two confirmed that the ESRB has given Manhunt 2 an Adults Only rating. The rating is not Wii specific, as the PS2 version received the same.
This announcement comes hot on the heels of a recent announcement that the game will be banned all together in the UK. Much criticism has surrounded the game in the US up to this point, from people calling for a boycott of Wendy's because they were promoting the Wii in general, to groups campaigning to have the Wii version receive the AO rating specifically because the Wii controls made it even more interactive.
Take-Two has three options at this point. They can release the game with the AO rating and have most large chains not carry it because the rating is usually associated with pornography. They can clean the game up and resubmit it for a new rating. Lastly, they can appeal the decision and try their luck. If the rating sticks, Manhunt 2 will be the first game to be given the rating based solely on the violence level.
The differences between the two ratings based on their description is small. The ESRB describes and M rated game as follows...
"Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language."
While an AO game is described like this...
"Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity."
It should follow that Manhunt 2 falls into the category of "prolonged scenes of intense violence." and apparently it is the first game ever to reach that level.
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 19, 2007, 02:15:04 PM
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 19, 2007, 02:51:01 PM
If they would, then I hope T2 has the balls to go ahead since it would be the first AO rated game released (not counting the hot-coffee incident, which was BS anyways since dry humping should be a M rating at most).
Post by: that Baby guy on June 19, 2007, 02:53:52 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 19, 2007, 03:12:42 PM
Post by: Pale on June 19, 2007, 03:16:31 PM
Post by: pSYCO-gAMER321 on June 19, 2007, 03:17:31 PM
Post by: StrikerObi on June 19, 2007, 03:31:05 PM
If a movie receives an NC-17 rating from the MPAA, most national cinema chains will not carry it. The movie is destined to fail, regardless of it's quality. It will get zero advertising and if it screens at all, it will screen in independent cinemas.
We know, at least according to this story and past history, that major retail chains will not carry a game that is marked with an "AO" rating by the ESRB.
Now, would it be possible for Take Two to release Manhunt 2 without a rating? There is nothing forcing them to accept the rating. In fact, movies sometimes do not accept their NC-17 ratings, and release "unrated".
For example, the documentary "This Film is Not Yet Rated" was fated with an NC-17 rating, and released "unrated" theatrically. The director chose not to accept the MPAA's rating. (The movie is about how corrupt the MPAA is, just so you know.) In the movie business, "unrated" is as good as NC-17, at least in cinemas.
On the other hand, DVDs are released as "unrated" editions all the time. In fact, it's a big marketing tactic. "Unrated" movies are not necassarily any more violent or sexual than their rated counterparts. The unrated version is simply not the exact same film the MPAA screened. Take a movie, add a deleted scene into the feature presentation (even if it's about kittens eating ice cream), plop it on a DVD and bam, it's "unrated".
Big retailers (wal-mart, best buy, etc) all carry unrated DVDs. So, how do they treat an unrated game? Do they act like a cinema and screw it, or do they act like a retailer and sell it?
For the record, I'm not passing judgement on Take Two or Manhunt 2. I'm just posing the question of how Take Two is going to handle this. Personally, I think they should release it unrated. If they believe in the product, and think it is quality, they should let the world see it the way they want it seen, even if that view is absolutely for "adults only". If retail won't carry it unrated, they'll almost certainly buckle and change the game.
Post by: mantidor on June 19, 2007, 03:31:25 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on June 19, 2007, 03:53:52 PM
I they do release it as an M title they better clean out the AO code parts because you know the hackers will be scouring the game for it.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on June 19, 2007, 03:55:16 PM
Although I personally have no qualms with playing an AO-rated game, it almost certainly spells financial doom for a game which likely had little sales potential in the first place. Remember that the original Manhunt was not a big seller, either.
I think the official ratings descriptions Pale included in this article point out the ambiguity and lack of transparency in the ESRB ratings process.
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 19, 2007, 04:19:24 PM
T2 is still struggling financially and I doubt the new execs would want to risk the limited sales an AO rating would get. I want to know what they will do in Europe, will they just not release the game like they do in Australia when the OFLC refuses to rate a game? Why does it matter what the BBFC does anyways? I though most video games use PEGI? Checking out Wikipedia, it says PEGI rates games released in the UK unless it contains certain material. So I supposed to could just get a PEGI rating and sell it in the other 28 European countries that use PEGI and ignore the UK.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 19, 2007, 04:20:54 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on June 19, 2007, 04:31:54 PM
Post by: StrikerObi on June 19, 2007, 04:40:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
I don't know of any major game being released "unrated", although I don't see how they could do so at this point since the game was most assuredly submitted for the ratings process and assigned a rating. Also, as an ESA member, Take Two may be obligated to submit all their games to the ESRB.
Although I personally have no qualms with playing an AO-rated game, it almost certainly spells financial doom for a game which likely had little sales potential in the first place. Remember that the original Manhunt was not a big seller, either.
I think the official ratings descriptions Pale included in this article point out the ambiguity and lack of transparency in the ESRB ratings process.
That's why a parallel the movie industry. Although filmmakers are not "required" to submit their films for review, they are financially screwed if they don't because cinemas won't carry it. However, as a member of the ESA, there is a chance that Take Two is required to submit games for review and also required to publish with ratings. This is a very interesting situation, I'm eager to see how it unfolds.
Post by: Rize on June 19, 2007, 04:44:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
I don't know of any major game being released "unrated", although I don't see how they could do so at this point since the game was most assuredly submitted for the ratings process and assigned a rating. Also, as an ESA member, Take Two may be obligated to submit all their games to the ESRB.
Although I personally have no qualms with playing an AO-rated game, it almost certainly spells financial doom for a game which likely had little sales potential in the first place. Remember that the original Manhunt was not a big seller, either.
I think the official ratings descriptions Pale included in this article point out the ambiguity and lack of transparency in the ESRB ratings process.
Couldn't the controversy actually attract buyers causing it to sell better? I think they'll keep the rating. Someone will carry it. If they could just get GameStop and friends on board that would be enough.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 19, 2007, 04:48:35 PM
I seriously think it's a combo of both, but to me, for a company like Take2, that's too risky, unless they are prepared for it.
Post by: Kairon on June 19, 2007, 04:49:17 PM
Post by: nickmitch on June 19, 2007, 04:59:20 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 19, 2007, 05:11:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
I find this delightfully ironic.
How so?
Post by: stevey on June 19, 2007, 05:31:11 PM
This is bad for pretty much everyone involed. Jack tompson spent a lot of time giving the game press and raising the preoders but if stores wont carry it what will happen to people preoders. Nintendo also spent time just to get 1 Rockstar game and now it's AO.
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 19, 2007, 06:07:08 PM
Only 23 games have gotten the AO rating, and of those:
1 was never released ("Thrill Kill" for the PS1, cancelled by EA after they purchased the developer Virgin Interactive)
1 was a temporary rating ("Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" after the Hot Coffee incident)
1 was for the CD-i ("The Joy of Sex", which was basically just an interactive version of the book of the same name)
1 was an interactive DVD ("Body Language")
The remaining 20 were PC/Macintosh "games" (not sure which are games since at least 1 is a screensaver program: "Playboy Screensaver :The Women Of Playboy")
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 19, 2007, 07:50:15 PM
. Maybe somebody can play internet detective or call some Rockstar or ESRB rep and find out if they're bound by some agreement that prevents them from doing that. Inquiring minds want to know!
Post by: planetidiot on June 20, 2007, 03:22:08 AM
They can always release a paintball / freeze-tag edition for the little kids.
Post by: UncleBob on June 20, 2007, 03:33:06 AM
Personally, I'm for releasing the Censored version as an M rated title and releasing the AO rated title through GameStop and such.
To be fair though, I have absolutly no plans to buy the game either way.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 20, 2007, 05:03:21 AM
Though now that we live in an era where anything can be bought online the threat of major retailers boycotting is not as big of a deal. Anyone who wants this game will get it if they have access to the internet and a credit card number. It's still not ideal but it's much better than it was ten years ago.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 20, 2007, 05:55:30 AM
M version will feature the stripped-down executions which are done only by button press on the PS2/PSP and will sell in stores.
And I firmly believe Reggie wanted this. He probably set a goal: kill Nintendo's kidde image.
Manhunt 2 gets an AO on the Wii but an M on the PS2?
Who's kidde NOW?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 20, 2007, 07:21:19 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 20, 2007, 07:46:04 AM
Seriously though, I went from "Meh, I may give it a rent" to "I NEED TO PLAY THIS GAME!"
Oh the irony!
Cheers!
Post by: Ian Sane on June 20, 2007, 07:48:46 AM
Nintendo. Or at least I'm sure that's the conclusion all the third parties making up flimsy excuses to not give the Wii their full support despite strong sales will find a way to come to. They'll probably come up with some BS about how making a mature game on the Wii runs the risk of an AO rating and thus isn't worth pursuing.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 20, 2007, 08:14:03 AM
Lovely.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 20, 2007, 08:14:58 AM
I always said, bad press like this is good press.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on June 20, 2007, 08:18:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Manhunt 2 gets an AO on the Wii but an M on the PS2?
Who's kidde NOW?
Both the Wii and PS2 versions have the AO rating, at least for now. The increased level of interaction on the Wii version does not seem to have been accounted for in the ratings process, and it's no surprise -- ESRB raters don't even play the games! If you just watched videos, as the ESRB does, you probably wouldn't notice a big difference between the two versions.
I think this game will either be canceled (which would be a real shame) or will be modified or appealed to get an M rating. I just don't see Take Two attempting to sell it with the AO rating, not with their financial troubles from San Andreas.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 20, 2007, 08:35:53 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 20, 2007, 08:42:45 AM
I've played worse.
Post by: Strell on June 20, 2007, 09:47:56 AM
I guess that means it will get Super AO.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 20, 2007, 09:59:02 AM
Post by: Strell on June 20, 2007, 10:12:05 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 20, 2007, 12:03:12 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on June 20, 2007, 12:16:15 PM
Post by: pSYCO-gAMER321 on June 20, 2007, 01:00:11 PM
Post by: Donutt007 on June 21, 2007, 06:15:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
I don't know...I think GS just copied and pasted some company line they found on Nintendo's website. I wish the quote they used specifically mentioned Manhunt 2. GameSpot becomes a less and less credible source to me every day.
Well they don't mention Manhunt 2 but on Nintendo's website it does say
Quote
*Please note that Nintendo does not sell or license games that carry the ESRB rating "AO" (Adults Only).
Here's the Link
