Post by: Jonnyboy117 on June 07, 2007, 09:40:19 PM
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=13587
Most of the Smash Bros. Dojo daily updates have so far been either minor item reveals or write-ups about characters already shown a year ago. But today's update is more newsworthy -- the official website has commented on how the game will be controlled.
Details on each scheme are still unknown, but Brawl will support four controller setups: Wii Remote (horizontal), Remote & Nunchuk, Classic Controller, and GameCube Controller. Support for the latter was hinted by Masahiro Sakurai at E3 2006, which implied that the Classic was likely to be compatible as well. It was also well known that a Remote-plus-Nunchuk style would be available for those people who don't have the other hardware or simply prefer to use the Wii's standard interface.
The horizontal Remote-only option is completely new. This series has always been played with an analog joystick since its debut on Nintendo 64, so it's not immediately clear how the game might be controlled with a D-pad, digital buttons, and probably some kind of motion control.
In this website post, Sakurai recommends the GameCube controller because of its stronger rumble capability as compared to the Wii Remote. He also hints that there is some surprising way to execute smash attacks and dashes with only the Wii Remote, and that the secret may be revealed in an upcoming update.
Post by: Artimus on June 08, 2007, 12:21:53 AM
Post by: Shift Key on June 08, 2007, 12:24:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I am no Smash Bros. expert but doesn't the sideways remote kind of limit your button possibilities?
Show me the control scheme for Brawl and then I'll tell you.
Post by: Sarail on June 08, 2007, 01:22:53 AM
It would be intersting to think that 5 or 6 player Smash is now possible, though. O_O
Post by: Sarail on June 08, 2007, 01:26:53 AM
Post by: MarioAllStar on June 08, 2007, 02:48:31 AM
If only Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz included a traditional control scheme...
Post by: Pale on June 08, 2007, 03:00:14 AM
Post by: Chasefox on June 08, 2007, 03:45:53 AM
Post by: Tigris Altaica on June 08, 2007, 04:05:39 AM
Post by: optimisticlimbo on June 08, 2007, 04:27:58 AM
Post by: trip1eX on June 08, 2007, 05:10:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I am no Smash Bros. expert but doesn't the sideways remote kind of limit your button possibilities?
Obviously the wiimote control scheme will incorporate motion control into SSBB.
Post by: therat on June 08, 2007, 05:28:15 AM
Post by: therat on June 08, 2007, 05:32:02 AM
wow, didnt think of that, to walk left and right you use the dpad, to run, you tilt..... that would be sweeeeeeeet. too bad 2 out of my 4 gc controllers recently broke.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 05:42:43 AM
I'd assume that you'd double tap a direction on the D-pad to perform the tap maneuver, like tapping would make you attack up but double tapping would result in a jump but double tap + 2 would be a smash attack.
I assume the B-button will also be used as shield and B + 2 will = grab/throw.
It will take some time to get used to, but it should be doable. I just hope it isn't motion control because motion control doesn't belong in SSBB.
Post by: therat on June 08, 2007, 05:47:02 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 08, 2007, 05:47:52 AM
It makes sense for Nintendo to offer so many control options even if it may confuse gamers. This game is for hardcore Nintendo fans who will pick up on all the references. "Confused" non-gamers need not apply. The SSB audience will appreciate the multiple options.
Post by: ShyGuy on June 08, 2007, 05:55:08 AM
Not that me or anyone else will forced to play this way, mind you, I just like to whine about very important things.Man I can't believe they are foisting the gamecube controller upon us again, how akward! Pull your head out of your rear end Nintendo, jeez....
Post by: vudu on June 08, 2007, 06:25:28 AM
Post by: Mikemn on June 08, 2007, 06:34:04 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2007, 06:49:28 AM
ONE DAY IT SHALL BE UNLEASHED ON THIS WORLD
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 07:42:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: therat
i think a quick shake of the controller to do a smash attack or throw an object isnt to difficult and probably very intuitive. time will tell young jedi.
I doubt it.
The twitch gameplay mechanics of SSB would give someone using a controller a SEVERE advantage over those using motion control.
The amount of time it takes to execute a smash attack would vary greatly, and then how would you do charged smash attacks with motion control?
I held onto my wavebirds for a reason.
Post by: Pale on June 08, 2007, 09:17:31 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2007, 09:19:34 AM
Post by: sycomonkey on June 08, 2007, 09:33:46 AM
Post by: bigdingusUNT on June 08, 2007, 09:40:13 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 08, 2007, 09:54:12 AM
Post by: stevey on June 08, 2007, 09:57:41 AM
1 smash attack
2 attack
+ movement
^ jump
B throw/grab
A shield (can't move away)
The only motion controls would be tilt to run instead of flicking to analog stick....
Post by: Strell on June 08, 2007, 10:18:59 AM
Let's see. This is speculation.
Wiimote sideways: Map attacks to 1/2 (as A/B respectively). Map shield to B trigger. You lose potential L cancels (though you can do this with the trigger), Z deflection (since no longer have that button), and short hops would be much harder to pull off (I'm thinking you'll have to rely entirely on quick presses on the D pad). I like using buttons for jumps, so this mode is out, unless motion control is used in a very novel and precise way. Smashes = juking left/right with the mote, for example. Could work, but I dunno. Precision kills in fighting games.
Wiimote + Nunchuk: D pad on the 'mote becomes the buttons. So down = B attacks, right = A attacks. Up/Left = used for jumping. B trigger = shield. Nunchuk has two buttons that can replace L and Z. So theoretically you have replicated full button placement from the GC controller. Again, this leaves out motion control, but if they implement it well, could be very useful. This is marginally better than the above.
Edit: Oh yea. You lose the C stick with both of the above. But if you are using it, you are a bitch and I hate you (when you use it).
Classic: Basically mimics the GC controller exactly, with only exception than the Z trigger might be lost, which is no big deal since you ought to be to live without it. Would be really funny if the 'mote was still usable. Wangmotation indeed.
GC/Wavebird: Probably will be the preferred method still. Depends if there are any new moves that take advantage of the above controllers.
Which brings up an excellent point: What if each setup gains its own advantages over the others? I.e., Wavebird is "standard." Motion enabled controllers get special moves, like maybe your Final Smash becomes based on motion and can inflict more damage. A pipe dream, but would be a reason people might use different control sets. That would add a lot of strategy, actually. That would put down the arguments about "well you used X setup and I used Y and you had the advantage."
Great. Now I'm going to be disappointed if that isn't in the game.
Hmmm. What was last Friday's update? I wonder if every Friday might be a "big" update.
Ahhh. I knew investing in a complete set of Wavebirds for the Wii was a good idea, as well as four extension cords. I guess I ought to snag a few more wired controllers just for good measure, even though I think I have enough already.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 08, 2007, 10:24:02 AM
Yeah but a lot of us already have Cube controllers so we don't have to buy extra remotes to play four player.
"I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online."
This would assume that is IS possible to have an intuitive fighter on the Wii. Forcing the Wii controller to me seems too much like pushing a controller idealogy. With videogames the design should be "what controls will work BEST?" and when you're pushing a specific design to prove a point you're not doing that. If the Wii controller is so ideal for this type of game then it shouldn't matter if they offer four options. The best one will become the de facto standard. It is only because it very likely won't be the best that there is any concern. The desire to force something often is because deep down whoever is doing the forcing knows their way wouldn't win in a fair comparison.
Post by: trip1eX on June 08, 2007, 12:25:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
From my post over at CAG:
Let's see. This is speculation.
Wiimote sideways: Smashes = juking left/right with the mote, for example.
Exactly. Smashes will almost surely use motion control.
I expect the Wiimote/Nunchuk to incorporate some motion control also. Maybe as an option or part of the sp game or some mini-games. IT would be a shame for this game not to try and incorporate some single-handed fighting moves. But every game doesn't have to use motion I suppose and motion would be best for a game made for it. Not tacked on to a game made for a regular controller.
Personally the wiimote/nunchuk have made the gamepad feel ancient.
Post by: IceCold on June 08, 2007, 12:30:33 PM
QuoteI believe that was sarcasm, Ian..
"Man I can't believe they are foisting the gamecube controller upon us again, how akward!"
Yeah but a lot of us already have Cube controllers so we don't have to buy extra remotes to play four player.
Post by: Sarail on June 08, 2007, 01:22:22 PM
--Wii Remote Only--
Left/Right D-Pad - Move character left/right. Double tap to dash.
Up D-Pad - Jump
B Trigger - Grab/Throw
A Button - Block / Evade (To evade, hold block and thrust the remote either left or right; same principle applies for air dodges and sidestepping on the ground.)
- Button - Taunt
+ Button - Pause
2 Button - Primary Attack / Smash Attack (To initiate a Smash attack, double tap direction on D-pad)
1 Button - Special Attacks (in conjunction with whatever direction is being pressed on D-pad)
**Tilt up/down - Aim weapons
See, very possible. Plus, I love the idea of motion based evasive maneuvers. I think that would work better than motion based attacks like most people are thinking is going to be the case. Sakurai's playing with everyone's heads right now. I love it. :P
Post by: Pale on June 08, 2007, 02:09:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online.
By inferring that people who use the traditional controls will win against people who use the Wii esque controls, you are basically saying that it is impossible for the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to control a fighter on the Wii.
If anything, they'll be able to prove it if people actually start using it over the Cube controller when the option is still there, not if they were forced too.
As I've said for a long long time, change isn't always good. Smash is popular because the controls were sheer genius in their simplicity. That is one aspect that should never be messed with. Tweaks and additions, fine, but a wholesale change would be disastrous.
Post by: JonLeung on June 08, 2007, 02:42:27 PM
QuoteNot only did they forget Nunchuk-only and Wii Remote vertically, but they also forgot GBA (via the GCN-GBA cable) and DS/DS Lite wireless control. DS Stylus control! And DK Bongoes! What a gyp! We're getting less than half of all possible control schemes! :P
Originally posted by: vudu
Whatever. SNK gave us the ability to play with only the Nunchuk. Why can't Nintendo do the same for its own games?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 08, 2007, 03:35:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think this is great. I'm going with Cube controller. I mean I'm already used to it so why not?
It makes sense for Nintendo to offer so many control options even if it may confuse gamers. This game is for hardcore Nintendo fans who will pick up on all the references. "Confused" non-gamers need not apply. The SSB audience will appreciate the multiple options.
Holy crap. IAN LIKES SOMETHING?
*checks outside for armageddon*
Post by: JonLeung on June 08, 2007, 04:01:11 PM
QuoteMortal Kombat: Armageddon was recently released on the Wii. And the motion control worked well enough. They had the option for the Classic Controller and the GameCube controller as well, just not the horizontal Remote one.
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think this is great. I'm going with Cube controller. I mean I'm already used to it so why not?
It makes sense for Nintendo to offer so many control options even if it may confuse gamers. This game is for hardcore Nintendo fans who will pick up on all the references. "Confused" non-gamers need not apply. The SSB audience will appreciate the multiple options.
Holy crap. IAN LIKES SOMETHING?
*checks outside for armageddon*
I guess there will be numerous debates as to which is best, but a true Smash Bros. expert may be able to beat anyone using any control scheme. Choice is good for anyone, and increases longevity of the game if someone did want to master them all.
Post by: ShyGuy on June 08, 2007, 05:04:30 PM
Post by: IceCold on June 08, 2007, 06:04:38 PM
QuoteI don't think it is. First off, we're talking about Smash Bros, which is a series that started out with traditional controls and is heavily dependent on them for its intuitiveness. If you made a brand new fighting game based on the remote, it would turn out much better.
By inferring that people who use the traditional controls will win against people who use the Wii esque controls, you are basically saying that it is impossible for the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to control a fighter on the Wii.
But more importantly, the remote isn't as well suited to 2D fighters. 3D fighters I can see the controller improving significantly in some cases, but on a 2D plane it's much harder to implement motion controls.
EDIT: Ohh, right.. Pale said that. This reminds me of his debate with zakkiel about the very same topic. I gotta look that one up.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 08, 2007, 08:19:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Man I can't believe they are foisting the gamecube controller upon us again, how akward!"
Yeah but a lot of us already have Cube controllers so we don't have to buy extra remotes to play four player.
"I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online."
This would assume that is IS possible to have an intuitive fighter on the Wii. Forcing the Wii controller to me seems too much like pushing a controller idealogy. With videogames the design should be "what controls will work BEST?" and when you're pushing a specific design to prove a point you're not doing that. If the Wii controller is so ideal for this type of game then it shouldn't matter if they offer four options. The best one will become the de facto standard. It is only because it very likely won't be the best that there is any concern. The desire to force something often is because deep down whoever is doing the forcing knows their way wouldn't win in a fair comparison.
Yikes everyone get rid of those control pads, time to go back to the joystick and one button combo. I HATE when companies like Nintendo, Sony, and MS force controller ideologies that games need something other than the joystick to play, they are obviously worried that the joystick/button combo would win when compared.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 08, 2007, 08:22:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaleQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online.
By inferring that people who use the traditional controls will win against people who use the Wii esque controls, you are basically saying that it is impossible for the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to control a fighter on the Wii.
If anything, they'll be able to prove it if people actually start using it over the Cube controller when the option is still there, not if they were forced too.
As I've said for a long long time, change isn't always good. Smash is popular because the controls were sheer genius in their simplicity. That is one aspect that should never be messed with. Tweaks and additions, fine, but a wholesale change would be disastrous.
You know that is exactly what I'm inferring, because I feel it is a cop out and I worry that the potential of a the Wiimote/nunchuck working great will be lost. This because of the potential of less thought and planning going into the Wii controls, because they have an easy way out.
Post by: Arbok on June 08, 2007, 08:32:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I HATE when companies like Nintendo, Sony, and MS force controller ideologies that games need something other than the joystick to play, they are obviously worried that the joystick/button combo would win when compared.
In this case, nothing is being forced, and, due to the nature of the market, chances are more people will be playing with the Wiimote than anything else, as that's what they bought with the system.
I don't see any reason for concern, it's not like they are forcing everyone to use the GCN controller, and to suggest that Smash Bros morph enough that it wouldn't be possible anymore on a traditonal controller seems kind of rash considering: how beloved the franchise is, that this is only the third game in the series, and it's coming half a decade after the last was released. There is hardly any concern for burn out, or anything else that would demand a huge overhaul in the formula.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 08, 2007, 08:34:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I HATE when companies like Nintendo, Sony, and MS force controller ideologies that games need something other than the joystick to play, they are obviously worried that the joystick/button combo would win when compared.
In this case, nothing is being forced, and, due to the nature of the market, chances are more people will be playing with the Wiimote than anything else, as that's what they bought with the system.
I don't see any reason for concern, it's not like they are forcing everyone to use the GCN controller, and to suggest that Smash Bros morph enough that it wouldn't be possible anymore on a traditonal controller seems kind of rash considering: how beloved the franchise is, that this is only the third game in the series, and it's coming half a decade after the last was released. There is hardly any concern for burn out, or anything else that would demand a huge overhaul in the formula.
Let me put it this way, I will have NO complaint if it appears they put alot of thought into the Wii controls. But if they appear lazily implemented I will be pretty disappointed. In a way I was hoping for Smash Brothers to take advantage of the Wiimote's unique features, and that does not appear to be the case anymore for whatever reason.
Post by: Pale on June 09, 2007, 03:44:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteI don't think it is. First off, we're talking about Smash Bros, which is a series that started out with traditional controls and is heavily dependent on them for its intuitiveness. If you made a brand new fighting game based on the remote, it would turn out much better.
By inferring that people who use the traditional controls will win against people who use the Wii esque controls, you are basically saying that it is impossible for the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to control a fighter on the Wii.
But more importantly, the remote isn't as well suited to 2D fighters. 3D fighters I can see the controller improving significantly in some cases, but on a 2D plane it's much harder to implement motion controls.
EDIT: Ohh, right.. Pale said that. This reminds me of his debate with zakkiel about the very same topic. I gotta look that one up.
Is that the argument where I said there was no way they were going to drop traditional controls in the new smash bros and it ended up with me threatening to quit the forums? =P
Post by: Ceric on June 09, 2007, 04:33:40 AM
Post by: NeoThunder on June 09, 2007, 06:31:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mikemn
I'm hoping Nintendo releases a Wii-style GCN controller (WaveBird Wireless). I mean one that is exactly the same as the original WaveBird, except it's made of glossy white plastic, with white and clear buttons, and a blue power light.
Don't forget about rumble....and a battery pack
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 09, 2007, 07:34:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
In this case, nothing is being forced, and, due to the nature of the market, chances are more people will be playing with the Wiimote than anything else, as that's what they bought with the system.
Except I would say that easily most of the people who own a Wii also own(ed) a Gamecube, and have GCN controllers sitting around.
Post by: Pale on June 09, 2007, 07:51:33 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 09, 2007, 08:12:41 AM
Post by: MarioAllStar on June 09, 2007, 10:34:01 AM
Not very major, but a nice touch.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 10, 2007, 02:33:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
I hope Nintendo releases a firmware update that lets us control the Wii with a GameCube controller. Since such a major title has GameCube controller support, it would be nice if we could start the game without having to use a Wii controller to select the disc channel.
That would be great as well.
Forcing pointer usage in the beginning just sucks.
Post by: KDR_11k on June 10, 2007, 07:25:06 PM
Post by: IceCold on June 10, 2007, 08:13:54 PM
