Post by: WindyMan on February 26, 2007, 03:25:12 PM
Hey, look at that. Nintendo brings another AAA Zelda title to Virtual Console. Unlike the last time they pulled a stunt like this, there are two other games to support it. It turns out they are pretty respectable, too.
Before we get into this week's recommendations, we'd like to announce that we've added a new index page for our Virtual Console recommendations. It includes all of our Virtual Console Mondays news features listed by week, as well as an alphabetical list for you to pick a game and see what we thought of it. The list is currently missing a good chunk of releases at the moment, but we're doing our best to fill in the gaps as quickly as we can. You can easily access it on the navigation menu to the left.
Here are the three games released this Virtual Console Monday.
Chew Man Fu - TurboGrafx-16
Released 7/1990
1-2 Players
Cost: 600 Wii Points ($6)
Controllers: Wii Remote, Wii Classic, GameCube
Chew Man Fu is advertised as a puzzle/action hybrid. The premise is to roam through a fixed-screen maze and pick up four different colored balls, which must be rolled on to the correct colored pads to complete the level. These balls also act as weapons that you can kick to take out enemies or break down walls. The tricky part is that these balls also act as obstacles which can trap you on the wrong side of an incoming enemy. Ball positioning and efficient wall-breaking make up the puzzle part of the game, while the enemies and a quick time limit make the action part pretty fast.
This is a pretty decent game, and not a bad deal at 600 points. There's a two player mode to co-op through the game, as well as a funky soccer mini-game to kill time. It's a little on the one-dimensional side to recommend it to everyone, though, so instead we'll just tell all the 16-bit die-hards out there that Chew Man Fu is something you may want to try out if you're looking for something else to play on VC. - Steven Rodriguez
Bio-Hazard Battle - Genesis
Released 10/30/1992
1-2 Players
Cost: 800 Wii Points ($8)
Controllers: Wii Remote, Wii Classic, GameCube
Add this game to the already extensive selection of "shmups" on Virtual Console. Bio-Hazard Battle is a horizontally scrolling shooter that plays very much like Gradius and R-Type, although the aesthetics are closer to Darius Twin (which will surely find its way to VC one of these days). The ships and enemies all have biological designs based mostly on insects, fish, and crustaceans. You can choose from four playable ships, each with different handling speed and different sub-weapons.
Bio-Hazard Battle is a solid, entertaining shooter with all the usual trappings of the genre - weak story, occasional slowdown, only a few levels (eight in all), and plenty of difficulty. Your ship always has a "seed pod" which hovers nearby, shooting a sub-weapon determined by the color of power-ups you collect. It's very much like the "options" in Gradius, but it also blocks enemy shots like the pod in R-Type. Although the game technically supports the Wii Remote, you won't have good access to the A button for rapid fire, so the GameCube and Classic controllers are preferable. - Jonathan Metts
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - Nintendo 64
Released 11/23/1998
1 Player
Cost: 1000 Wii Points ($10)
Controllers: Wii Classic, GameCube
Ocarina of Time is, and probably always will be, the most significant 3D Zelda. Along with Mario, the franchise made a seamless transition from 2D through retaining the series' root gameplay and adding new facets to take the experience to the next level. The now-ubiquitous Z-targeting, an open world, and complex puzzles are all here. Make no mistake - there's a reason why people call it the greatest game ever made.
Unfortunately, there are a few minor blemishes present in the Virtual Console release. While the N64 controller is nothing to be proud of, its unique setup is difficult to replicate, and as such, using the right analog stick in place of the C-Buttons for item equipment feels a little janky. Luckily, they're also mapped to face buttons, but it's still no replacement for the original scheme. Furthermore, the N64 emulation on Wii doesn't feature rumble functionality, so stuff like the Stone of Agony won't work.
At the end of the day, the aforementioned details are minute, and don't really detract from the experience. Ocarina's still one of Nintendo's best releases ever, and it'll still rock your world, even beyond the nostalgia bit. So unless you already own the game in some form, it's a definite purchase. - Karl Castaneda
Post by: vudu on February 26, 2007, 03:34:32 PM
Any chance you guys (i.e. TYP, IIRC) will reformat the list to be more like the regular Reviews section? It would be great if we could just scroll down the list and see which games are recommended without individually selecting them from the current drop down menu. The ability to filter and sort (by name, original system, rating, etc) would be excellent, too.
Post by: Entroper on February 26, 2007, 04:26:24 PM
Lame. The Gamecube bonus disc version had rumble.
Lame.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 26, 2007, 04:27:32 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on February 26, 2007, 04:45:39 PM
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 26, 2007, 05:10:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Entroper
So there is, in fact, no rumble in Ocarina of Time.
Lame. The Gamecube bonus disc version had rumble.
Lame.
Are you surprised? Nintendo said months ago that Virtual Console games would not have rumble or online play.
Post by: WindyMan on February 26, 2007, 05:59:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Thank goodness for the VC Recommendations Index!
Any chance you guys (i.e. TYP, IIRC) will reformat the list to be more like the regular Reviews section? It would be great if we could just scroll down the list and see which games are recommended without individually selecting them from the current drop down menu. The ability to filter and sort (by name, original system, rating, etc) would be excellent, too.
The index's primary purpose is to serve as a hub for all our VC Mondays updates. The drop-down game list was a bonus addition that Michael Cole added pretty much at the last minute. A kickin' rad addition, I might add.
In the process of deciding how we wanted to go about including VC games in our database, we decided that it would be best to keep real Wii games separate from VC games. We settled on just updating the news every week with our recommendations—again, we consider VC games separate from full-blown Wii games, and so we don't consider our VC ratings as actual reviews. The effort to make VC games function like regular game profiles with a sortable index would have been far too much trouble to make work with the site because of how differently we treat VC stuff.
Be happy with what you're given! We're working hard on making sure every game has a recommendation now, so please look forward to that.
Post by: that Baby guy on February 26, 2007, 06:05:01 PM
Post by: tonythekitty on February 26, 2007, 08:50:44 PM
Also does anyone think that they will release Super Metroid for SNES? That was a truly great game.
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on February 26, 2007, 10:41:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
What is the resolution and framerate like in Zelda: OOT? Is it the same as the N64 version or does it have a minor facelift like the Zelda bonus disk for GC?
I'm more inclined to think it's the hi-res bonus disk version, but I'm playing on Standard Def, so I can't say for sure. If they're different versions, I certainly can't tell. As for the framerate, its pretty smooth, but definitely not 60 FPS.
Post by: Tansunn on February 26, 2007, 11:48:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: tonythekitty
Also does anyone think that they will release Super Metroid for SNES? That was a truly great game.
Of course they will. It's all a matter of when they do it. Perhaps to coincide with the release of Metroid Prime 3 so new gamers can get a look at what the series was like before it went 3D.
Because if they don't release Super Metroid for VC, they're freakin' stupid.
Post by: Caliban on February 27, 2007, 03:06:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: tonythekitty
Now am I correct in understanding that te only thing that prevents us from downloading other regions Virtual console games is the region of the unit itself? Does this mean that if I buy a second Wii from japan then I can download Neo Geo games? Or would I not be able to use my credit card to buy points off of it?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, you can use your credit card to buy points off of it. A while ago there was this video feature from ign-wii, about importing the Wii for its VC games, where Matt and Bozon clearly said what was possible and what wasn't. If you want to confirm my answers, just watch the video on this link http://media.wii.ign.com/articles/760/760035/vids_1.html.
Post by: Ceric on February 27, 2007, 03:45:16 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 27, 2007, 05:27:07 AM
Post by: Ceric on February 27, 2007, 06:00:14 AM
Post by: Moto Yugota on February 27, 2007, 06:26:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Yep, gimme Majora's Mask and LttP, the two I'm missing (and maybe Link's Awakening, my cart broke shortly after I finished it for the first time).
Dude A Link to the Past has been on the VC for over a month already. Where were you?
Post by: ATimson on February 27, 2007, 06:37:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nintendogamecube86
Are you surprised? Nintendo said months ago that Virtual Console games would not have rumble or online play.
Yes, they said that online play wouldn't be added. But I don't remember them ever saying that rumble would be removed. Care to provide a source?
Post by: vudu on February 27, 2007, 06:39:33 AM
QuoteGermany.
Originally posted by: Moto YugotaQuote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Yep, gimme Majora's Mask and LttP, the two I'm missing (and maybe Link's Awakening, my cart broke shortly after I finished it for the first time).
Dude A Link to the Past has been on the VC for over a month already. Where were you?
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 01, 2007, 08:08:38 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 01, 2007, 08:23:48 AM
I agree.
Post by: Kairon on March 01, 2007, 08:37:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Majora's Mask will probably make it one day, assuming there are no problems emulating the Expansion Pak. I'm looking forward to that because it's better than OoT (yeah, I said it!).
Aonouma LOVER! DIEEEEEE!!!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2007, 08:45:00 AM
I hear this sort of thing so often now that saying OoT is the better game is starting to seem more controversial.
My theory is that half of the people on the internet have never played it and just say it's better to be cool. Jonny obviously has played it but MM was released on the N64 in 2000 when only Nintendo nuts still bought N64 games. Therefore it was more obscure and only more hardcore people ever played it. It also focused more on sidequests and had a time limit and reused models which at the time was criticized by some. Thus the amount of people that were willing to deal with these changes was even less than the people that were actually playing it at the time in the first place. Therefore MM has hardcore gamer cred because it's weird and different and was also never as popular as OoT. Initially praise of MM being better was rare but as more people went back and tried it and it got more exposure from the Cube release it became the "in" thing to do. I don't mind so much because the game is incredibly good and I do like it better and it deserves to be praised as a classic game, whether or not it's better than OoT. It's just seems to have become a bandwagon.
My theory is that in time Metroid Prime 2 will be the "new Majora's Mask". It was never as popular as the first game due to less interest in the Cube when it came out and I often see it get crapped on a fair bit. A lot of people also didn't give it a chance because they didn't like that Metroid Prime doesn't control like Halo. In time however Metroid Prime 2's obscurity will give it hype with hardcore gamers and eventually it will get praise for being better than Metroid Prime and that will steamroll as MP2 will become an "it game" like MM.
Decent games that were overlooked get insane praise from the hardcore years later. Outright classic games that were overlooked reach god-like status. Pikmin's going to become the new Earthbound. The Cube version of Twilight Princess will be the long lost "definitive" version because it's more obscure.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 01, 2007, 08:47:40 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 01, 2007, 08:55:41 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 01, 2007, 08:55:46 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on March 01, 2007, 08:58:00 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 01, 2007, 09:09:14 AM
4 dungeons x 3 hours (if you're hardcore fast enough to beat a dungeon within a single Slow Song of Time 3-day-period, like me, which also includes collecting all 15 fairies on the first visit)
plus
4 miniquests x 2 hours of gameplay (just to enter the dungeon in the first place)
= 20 hardcore hours of play, which isn't really short, and is probably FAST compared to the many who did play it and claimed that the 3-day time constraint was too limiting for their more casual "i like to take my time in dungeons" kind of pace.
Then add another 30 hours to complete all the extra tasks w/out the help of a faq/guide. NOT SHORT AT ALL for people who were well accustomed to Ocarina's mechanics and techniques.
Whereas, Ocarina took a while anyway cuz it was new (20-30 hours core play, plus 10-20 hours for extras), and involved some inefficient travelling.
What's with these crazy peeps who say the game is over once you see the end credits?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 01, 2007, 09:20:03 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on March 01, 2007, 09:33:29 AM
Post by: Kairon on March 01, 2007, 09:35:32 AM
One of the things that marks Aonouma games is the out-there monster design. The stal-wolves from TP show an anatomical attention to detail that pops them more realistically instead of simply cartoony like Miyamoto's stalf-children. The Twilight Giant Crows with their frayed heads are almost nightmares out of a twisted dream, as are the cursed Twilight people whose heads are a flat 2D plane, horrifcally insulting our concepts of volume and nature. Their eery moans also bespeak of Aonouma's bent towards the twisted and dark. Compare these to the anatomically perverse four gods in Majora's Mask, and the jump-cutting, near insane Mask salesman, and I think we can see one of the redeeming features of Aonouma's style that really should be explored more in the future.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 01, 2007, 09:38:11 AM
Helping people one case at a time VS. The Destiny of Helping the Same Princess Who Lets things go Wrong Time and Again?
~~~~~
EY JOHN-BOY, or editors en-responsiblay, why aren't there recommendations for the early batch of VC releases?
:: edited for spelign.
Post by: Bloodworth on March 01, 2007, 09:51:22 AM
Post by: NeoThunder on March 01, 2007, 10:12:11 AM
An extreamly difficult boss that keeps changing?....
Two pots, 1 full replenish of magic, 1 arrows replenish
unless of course the dam boss destroyes you two pots before you need them, the you run out of stuff to actually be able to defeat him....I really don't see how anyone was able to defeat him. Thats what really pissed me off about that game, I was never able to defeat it even with stratigy guides
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 01, 2007, 11:55:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Let's face it, MM's tightly knitt challenges and PRACTICAL skill/item set give its gameplay more worth per unit time than TP's THROWAWAY items and wasted time for a whole half-game driven by fanservice story events (pretty off-balance considering it's the 4th game after 3 previous 3D games that put a heavy focus on new gameplay dynamics).
Helping people one case at a time VS. The Destiny of Helping the Same Princess Who Lets things go Wrong Time and Again?
~~~~~
EY JOHN-BOY, or editors en-responsiblay, why aren't there recommendations for the early batch of VC releases?
:: edited for spelign.
Gee I could have swore the wolf mechanic was a new gameplay dynamic. Not to mention you are constantly saving people and villages in TP. Really though Majora had a similar plot "Save the world from a big ugly moon controlled by a creepy villain". What I don't understand is why you bought two copies of a game you hate so much? Makes me really question your mindset.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2007, 11:56:24 AM
I don't think it would be the same. Part of the challenge was figuring out how to change the last three days of a person's life and then once you've changed it what to do next to cross that person off your notebook. It's a good time travel concept and with routine actions it wouldn't make as much sense. I loved the three day concept. My only problem with it was the time limit for dungeons. It would be nice if the dungeons existed "outside of time" so you do them at your own pace. I think the whole idea was really cool but needs some kinks worked out. In a future Zelda game maybe you just have a cursed town that repeats a given time period but the world outside it is unaffected. Then all dungeons and stuff like that never has to be redone or done in a time limit while the town sticks to the schedule. You can escape the town to the outside world because you have the Triforce.
"An extreamly difficult boss that keeps changing?...."
The boss is only hard if you don't have the Fierce Deity mask and if you don't have all the masks then you aren't really beating the game anyway.
Post by: Kairon on March 01, 2007, 12:00:11 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smoke39 on March 01, 2007, 12:03:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"You could easily replace the time loop with daily routines that the characters conform to infinitely and the game wouldn't be losing any actual content"
I don't think it would be the same. Part of the challenge was figuring out how to change the last three days of a person's life and then once you've changed it what to do next to cross that person off your notebook. It's a good time travel concept and with routine actions it wouldn't make as much sense. I loved the three day concept. My only problem with it was the time limit for dungeons. It would be nice if the dungeons existed "outside of time" so you do them at your own pace. I think the whole idea was really cool but needs some kinks worked out. In a future Zelda game maybe you just have a cursed town that repeats a given time period but the world outside it is unaffected. Then all dungeons and stuff like that never has to be redone or done in a time limit while the town sticks to the schedule. You can escape the town to the outside world because you have the Triforce.
Certainly, it wouldn't be the same. The loop is conducive to the mood (feeling of urgency, and a bit of powerlessness as everything is continually reset every time you go back to the first day), the story, and the challenge. But none of the content--the quests, etc.--would need to be removed if the loop weren't present. My point is that MM has much more going for it beyond the time loop mechanic.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 01, 2007, 12:04:06 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 01, 2007, 12:05:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I could SWEAR that Majora's Mask wasn't that hard to beat at all... even without the fierce-diety-i-win mask.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
The Eels scared me to the point of having to force me to get through it. Since I no longer have a save, I refuse to go through the Eels EVER again.
Post by: Smoke39 on March 01, 2007, 12:05:25 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 01, 2007, 02:13:17 PM
Post by: Ceric on March 01, 2007, 02:56:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
My PN03 brethren disappoint me.
Ironically enough thats a game I wouldn't might being remade and tweaked for one of the more powerful systems so it could be silky smooth.
Post by: Kairon on March 01, 2007, 03:04:27 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 01, 2007, 04:23:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
While OoT was definitely better than MM, I wouldn't consider Majora to be on the level of the Capcom Zeldas.. it's too good for that.
I have no trouble agreeing with that, I mainly meant it is more of a spin off game than a true part of the Zelda series.
Post by: KDR_11k on March 01, 2007, 07:48:15 PM
Yes but you need your Innocence to get into the town in first place. How the akumas got in there is anyone's guess. Wait, we're not talking about D. Gray-Man, are we?
