Post by: WuTangTurtle on January 14, 2007, 09:08:09 AM
Person dies trying to win a wii by holding in her own wee. It's not confirmed but it is most likely water intoxication. Thats right folks, WATER INTOXICATION. People are morons....
Post by: Guitar Smasher on January 14, 2007, 09:14:38 AM
Seriously, there's being a caring and generous parent, and then there's being a responsible adult.
Post by: Chode2234 on January 14, 2007, 09:33:10 AM
Post by: stevey on January 14, 2007, 09:36:31 AM
Post by: wandering on January 14, 2007, 10:09:06 AM
Quote
People are morons....
Quote
and then there's being a responsible adult.
I agree. The people who held that contest were moronic and irresponsible.
Post by: WuTangTurtle on January 14, 2007, 10:24:51 AM
First off the radio station should have a doctor or atleast set up a limit of how much water they can drink and how long before things could become dangerous. Secondly the contest entrants for not realizing that they could get water poisoning (basically drowning urself) or physically injuring urself by holding it in too long.
I hope the radio station gets into some legal troubles and jobs are lost.
Post by: King of Twitch on January 14, 2007, 10:26:15 AM
Post by: Shecky on January 14, 2007, 01:42:42 PM
Post by: BlkPaladin on January 14, 2007, 02:10:28 PM
So this proves that:
1)Just because it is a public contest doesn't mean its safe.
2)You can really have too much of something that is considered "good" for you.
Also this was carried by the news in my area (Wisconsin), I don't know if they mentioned that it was for a game system because it can cause some anti-gaming feelings.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 14, 2007, 04:28:22 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on January 14, 2007, 05:37:36 PM
I don't know, but something seems off about this whole story to me. Granted, if it is true, I feel very bad for this woman and her children, because it is a truly awful thing to happen, and the radio station is the only one to blame.
Post by: bustin98 on January 15, 2007, 02:08:03 AM
Nothing can replace those kids' mom, but that radio station had better make sure they have want for nothing for the rest of their lives. Civil suit will be here in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
Post by: KDR_11k on January 15, 2007, 02:21:42 AM
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on January 15, 2007, 04:00:36 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 15, 2007, 07:32:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
You can have your bladder burst and that is fatal.
This story makes my heart heavy, and my prostate weak. My bladder is full to bursting...
Post by: UncleBob on January 15, 2007, 07:43:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
Nothing can replace those kids' mom, but that radio station had better make sure they have want for nothing for the rest of their lives. Civil suit will be here in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
Why? Because their mother chose to participate in a contest?
Post by: Zach on January 15, 2007, 07:49:49 AM
QuoteBecause the contest was unsafe. The station did not think to take proper medical precautions for such a contest. They should have known that such a thing could happen, and taken proper action to prevent it.
Originally posted by: UncleBobQuote
Originally posted by: bustin98
Nothing can replace those kids' mom, but that radio station had better make sure they have want for nothing for the rest of their lives. Civil suit will be here in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
Why? Because their mother chose to participate in a contest?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 15, 2007, 07:52:03 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 15, 2007, 08:01:33 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 15, 2007, 08:24:30 AM
I was thinking that too. So the next time Nintendo gives something a really stupid name and people defend it REMEMBER that last time it happened someone DIED.
It's the radio station's fault but it IS very interesting that if Nintendo didn't pick the incredibly horrible name they did the idea for the contest never would have happened in the first place.
I feel sorry for the kids because the mom was trying to win them a videogame system. That's cool. If your parent won you a game system that is something you would always remember fondly. But here we have a dedicated mother doing something special for her kids and she dies because of it. That's just horribly tragic.
I would be so screwed in a contest like this. Whenever I go to the theatre I have like a 50% chance of having to go pee through a large portion of the movie. Two hernias as an infant f*cked my bladder up something fierce.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 15, 2007, 09:38:55 AM
Post by: matt oz on January 15, 2007, 10:18:55 AM
If the family sues, say goodbye to every type of contest involving a physical act. No more 'hands on a hard body' contests, because someone's legs may atrophy. No more pie-eating contests, because someone may go into a diabetic coma.
There is absolutely no personal responsibility in our tort-happy society, so if this family sues, it would set a precedent that anyone holding a contest will be held strictly accountable for the actions of the people in the contest. No one will want to take that responsibility anymore, so no more contests.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 15, 2007, 11:32:18 AM
I don't know if that would be very fun. Every time you played your Wii you would think "my Mom died to give me this". It's not so depressing to think something like that every time you vote or visit the Alamo or something like that but a videogame system?
Post by: chris+pie=joy on January 15, 2007, 11:53:14 AM
Post by: Strell on January 15, 2007, 12:04:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"If Nintendo would have only called it the revolution all of this could have been avoided."
I was thinking that too. So the next time Nintendo gives something a really stupid name and people defend it REMEMBER that last time it happened someone DIED.
If you honestly believe this, you are retarded in every possible sense of the word.
I thought people were over this name bs by now. No one cares about the name except for a few fanboys, whether they are rabidly for or against Nintendo.
The name has helped Nintendo quite clearly. To suggest it was a bad decision is stupid. Amazingly stupid.
I mean, I have heard some STUPID SH*T in my day, but goodness, this takes the cake. And that includes comparisons to posts where every other word is spelled incorrectly, or have a plethora of !s or 1s.
This situation has NOTHING to do with the name of the system. NOTHING. There have been contests of this nature for a while now, and they will continue to happen. Some guy died in a Toughman contest a few years ago around here, but there are still charity boxing events.
Post by: ThePerm on January 15, 2007, 12:18:49 PM
as far as the name goes, Revolution is a clearly worse name in this regard....in any case they could have named it anything stupid and its name could have caused some crazy small town revolution or a wii wee contest. At least they didnt anem it game rectangle or some stupid crap like the last system.
Post by: Blue Plant on January 15, 2007, 12:20:33 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 15, 2007, 01:48:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Blue Plant
If it wasn't Wii, it would've been "Hold your pee for a PS3"...
Lol. I really think the moral of this story isn't that the Wii name is the cause, but that people do stupid stuff and have stupid competitions.
Post by: Blue Plant on January 15, 2007, 02:06:29 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 15, 2007, 02:46:12 PM
I agree that it was stupid of her, but when people are really desperate to get something they WILL do something stupid.
I wouldn't be surprised if the kids bitched at her about not getting a Wii, pushing her into doing this.
And yeah, its stupid to put the blame on the name. Even the most normal product names get really stupid, gimmicky contests like this. Heard of 100 grand contests?
Post by: WuTangTurtle on January 15, 2007, 03:39:13 PM
I think atleast the contestants should have done was jog it off as sweating does reduce the amount of water in your system.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 15, 2007, 04:11:11 PM
Most Gamestops I've talked to are getting roughly 3 per week. I don't care what anyone says: that's pathetic.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 15, 2007, 04:37:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Yeah, if we want to blame anyone, blame Nintendo's sluggishness in replenishing the Wii supply.
Most Gamestops I've talked to are getting roughly 3 per week. I don't care what anyone says: that's pathetic.
You stole the words right out of my mind...
It was clearly the rarity of the system that drove the people into doing this.
But again, its unfair to put the blame on just one source. If anything, EVERYONE is guilty in this story.
The radio station is guilty for promoting a contest that could physically hurt people.
Nintendo is guilty for not replenishing the Wii supplies.
The woman is guilty for putting her body in danger for the sake of a GAME CONSOLE.
And I hate myself for saying this, but the children are probably guilty of bitching to her about not getting a Wii.
Its like everyone contributed to the death of this woman, the victim included.
Post by: IceCold on January 15, 2007, 04:42:48 PM
How do you know she was looking for one before? How do you know her kids kept nagging her? What if she just couldn't afford the Wii, and entered this contest to have a chance of getting it free?
You guys are making way too many assumptions here..
Post by: Strell on January 15, 2007, 04:47:11 PM
It doesn't help that they obviously didn't plan for this kind of thing to happen, because they just had to recently raise their predictions for sales.
Nintendo has absolutely nothing to do with this any more than the people getting shot over the PS3 did for Sony. That's hysteria on the part outside of their realm of power and coercion. Does this mean they shouldn't care? No, but there's a HUGE gap between where Nintendo's liability ends and things like this begin.
Now then, as far as this entire situation is concerned, I'm just going to quote myself from over at CAG, because I think that's as complete as I'm going to get on this subject:
Corporations are supposed to pay people to investigate potential health hazards for stunts like this. It's why they should have had medical professionals on standby or possibly at the event in question, and the fact that the woman apparently was crying in pain should have been a red flag, and she should have been checked out immediately.
First the TRU baby debacle, now this sort of thing. A few years ago at the college here, they had a Toughman contest, and some participant went home and died after competing due to head trauma (I think it was an anyuerism [sic]), which manifested as a headache at the time. Turns out he was bleeding internally and didn't know it.
Drink too much water and you'd overload your bladder and kidneys, which would backup into your bloodstream, and at that point, you are in big trouble.
Anyone saying this woman deserved this for negligence...that's pretty haughty. Your body sometimes cannot adequately communicate internal problems, iand even when it does, most people can't recognize them. That's why a kid last year, after football practice in the 100+ degree weather, went home, fell asleep, and never woke up.
Here is all that can be said - this is an unfortunate turn of events. Period. Nothing more or less. You can't blame the contestant, because they generally think they are operating in an environment that is safe and secure. The only way this could have been avoided is if health officials were present and had checked the woman immediately, which would have required the company to hire them and research these potential issues to begin with.
But above all, the main thing anyone should remember is that we are not as in control of our bodies as we'd like to think. I can't control my heartbeats or body temperature (though, to be fair, supposedly monks can learn to do these kinds of things, but I don't have proof) any better than I can tell if I'm currently under attack from a virus until I feel some kind of reaction, namely fever. And by then, I'm defintely under attack, and there's nothing I can do to help myself except ride it out.
However, the moment you feel unsure about something or bad, get medical help. That's about all you can do.
Now this conversation has gone on long enough, and for people to bat some careless eyes at it is to be expected, but the only reason I can see someone doing this is so that they can make themselves feel better about themselves. I guess it's a self preservation sort of thing. "That woman got taken out by drinking too much water. I'm going to go out a much cooler way, like in a runaway semi truck driven by the Incredible Hulk." Again, to be expected, but you're not looking very cool at the moment, so I'm not sure why you'd care to bring it up at all. Just move along.
Just leave it at this point. The woman is dead, it's kinda tragic, and hopefully it's going to force companies to rethink their promotional strategies, as well as teach people that they need to pay attention.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 15, 2007, 04:51:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Ugh. How can you blame Nintendo for not having enough supply? Here's some news; they WANT MONEY! They WANT TO SELL CONSOLES. They're MAKING THEM AS FAST AS THEY CAN. They wouldn't lie in estimates - that would cause huge backlash from their stockholders.
How do you know she was looking for one before? How do you know her kids kept nagging her? What if she just couldn't afford the Wii, and entered this contest to have a chance of getting it free?
You guys are making way too many assumptions here..
I'm just being realistic, dude. You are right in that we don't know how it exactly happened and the woman's intentions, so the best we can do is speculate why it happened.
I've seen cases like these where people go to the extreme just to get something, and the mass media LOVES to exploit these people for the sake of entertainment. Don't believe me? Turn on your TV. You are bound to see more than one show that put honest people that simply want something in dangerous, humiliating and degrading situations just so we can sit back and enjoy it. It's true that no one forced them to do it but like I mentioned, when people want something badly, whether it be for themselves or for someone they love, they will do ANYTHING to achieve it. Hell, if the thing they must do to achieve their dream is to kill someone else, some WILL DO IT.
And I wouldn't be surprised if the radio station made a BIG deal out how the Wii is very hard to find and they happened to have one. Again, hot product, combined with high demand and rarity and people will go nuts trying to buy one.
Sorry if we are being cruel and morbid, dude. We have said that what happened to the woman is sad. But at the same time we have to accept that this death was caused by the irresponsibility of many sources, including the woman herself.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 15, 2007, 05:00:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold You guys are making way too many assumptions here..
The only safe assumption is that Nintendo sucks ass at manufacturing.
It's not just the Wii: the DSL is also sold out across most of the US and it has been on the market for the better part of the year, its incredibly high demand being evidenced since its inception.
So what's the excuse there? Nintendo knows how popular it is, they know it will continue to sell: there's no DANGER in producing too many DSLs. So why the shortage?
Maybe this woman had different motivations for wanting to win the contest, but I'm hesitant to believe that the shortage of Wiis didn't play a factor in her desire to acquire one through any means necessary.
Even if she was dirt poor, $250 would basically suffice as an xmas present for all three of her kids. If she could have walked into a store an bought a Wii before xmas, she probably wouldn't be dead right now.
Quote
Ok first off, why do people keep acting like it is so easy for Nintendo to pump out systems? It takes a loooooooooooong time to make, compile, package, ship, and sell all those systems. WAY longer than anyone seems to understand, because I've seen nothing but whining all over the 'net from people acting like Nintendo can make these things in a matter of seconds. True, they could have opened up another factory for production, but I imagine they have to be somewhat cautious right now, especially considering all the talk I see about "well the Wii has no worthwhile games for the first half of the year, being ripe for the usual Nintendo drought." Even if they scaled up production, we wouldn't see evidence of that for a few weeks - if not months - anyway, so it isn't going to help the situation.
Like I said, the DSL has been out for most of the year and it still was sold out everywhere.
Nintendo just sucks at manufacturing. Whether that's because they refuse to create enough factories or general incompetence is anyone's guess, but the fact remains: there's NO excuse for the DSL to be sold out and it is as well.
Post by: Strell on January 15, 2007, 05:06:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Like I said, the DSL has been out for most of the year and it still was sold out everywhere.
You can't compare the DSL and the Wii, so stop doing it.
Post by: jasonditz on January 15, 2007, 05:08:31 PM
This wasn't some lunatic stunt this woman was performing, she drank a very modest amount of water and through some weird unforseen body chemistry issue she died. It's as though they had a dance competition and she had a heart attack on the floor 15 minutes in. A shame, but lets not go around point fingers.
40-odd ounces is not anywhere near a lethal dose of water for a healthy adult. Yesterday just to get a sense of how much it was I measured out that amount of water into a bowl, and easily drank the entire bowl without taking a breath. It's not as though I was taking my life into my hands or anything you understand, it's just that it was not that much.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 15, 2007, 05:11:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: StrellQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Like I said, the DSL has been out for most of the year and it still was sold out everywhere.
You can't compare the DSL and the Wii, so stop doing it.
Why?
Both systems are highly sought out. But feature a lot of great games that everyone wants to play and both feature mass appeal.
And both suffer from high demand, not enough units, partly because Nintendo never sees it coming and severely under ships to stores.
You can try to cover the sky with your hand all you want, but its hard to deny that Nintendo has fumbled on shipping both systems to stores.
I already said that I am willing to forgive Nintendo about the Wii since its still just starting and manufacturing Wiis will still be hard. But if by April of May the Wii is STILL extremely hard to find no one can't deny it then; something is up at Nintendo.
Post by: NeoThunder on January 15, 2007, 05:18:48 PM
I'm going to guess bottled water, and i've never been a fan of bottled water so i'm going to say that the bottled water is the company that needs to be sued
Post by: Strell on January 15, 2007, 05:22:08 PM
Nintendo never had this much trouble with the GBA, and it's one of the highest selling systems in the history of gaming. And yet here were are, with problems with two systems? That's the product of demand outstripping supply, and when you're forcing all your systems as fast as you can go, that's no longer your damn fault. And AGAIN, even if they opened up a new factory, we wouldn't see changes from that for well over a month, and by then it might have been all for naught, and you're stuck with a lot of lost money.
There's no way Nintendo could prepare for that, as evidence by their recent increases in production and revenue estimates. Which means the market is bigger than they could prepare for. The DS sells 150K systems a WEEK alone in Japan.
Beyond that, it's the damn holiday season. On December 1st you'd have no problem finding a DS in any store. But come December 24th and later, it is impossible. Because people wait until the last minute. And when you see that kind of surge out of nowhere, there's nothing you can do to defend against it.
If we have this issue in April, then you've got a point. But it's 3-4 weeks post-Christmas, and that has only fueled the sales of the Wii.
I still think all of this nonsense is a leftover from whatever BS report came out that said "Nintendo is stockpiling 11 million Wiis," which was just that - bs.
I gaurantee you I could go find a DSL waaaaaay more easily than I could a Wii right now. You peopel act like you've never seen a holiday season before.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 15, 2007, 06:59:58 PM
Post by: D-Caf on January 16, 2007, 01:41:10 AM
She drank 224 ounces of water for the contest. That's 6.62 Liters of water. That's 1.75 Gallons of water. They were drinking a half pint every 15 minutes and then given larger bottles to drink after the first hour. That means she most likely drank all that water in less than 3 hours with no other source of nutrients or excercise or going the bathroom. It is recommended that you drink 64 ounces of water each day normally.
The majority of people do not know that drinking to much water can kill you. Most think it will make you sick at the worst and you have to lie down and wait for your body to digest it (which actually make it worse). Sweating wil not help and at that point going the bathroom won't help. You have to be treated with sodium and other nutrients to re-equalize your body. I would say 98% of us would have no idea that would be the only way to save your life in that situation. Stop blaming the victim, she entered a contest that she most likely assumed was safe given it was put on by a public radio station. Unfortunetly it looks like the radio station may not have consulted with a medical professional about this before hand. Again, they like most people, probably didn't think it was dangerous (as said most people don't realize you can die from drinking to much water) and didn't think to worry about a doctor. They will end up getting sewed, and unless they had a doctor on hand and consulted one before hand, will loose. Worse they will have to live with the knowledge that they put on a contest that killed someone, that is probably the worse punishment they could be dealt.
I for one feal sorrow for all. I'm sorry to the children who have lost their mother and will probably never be able to enjoy a video game again for the memories it will bring. I feel sorry for the radio station jockys, which thought they were putting on a fun event for all that would give someone a toy they have been desperately looking for with out any thought of the peril to come. And I feel sorry for Nintendo, who will now have a smear on their reputation for something they had no involvment in, and probably would have known better not to run (as a larger corporation, their lawyers would have most likely demanded the doctors advice).
No one is going to win in this (except maybe the lawyers), no amount of funds or gifts will bring the childrens mother back. Those at the radio station will never enjoy their jobs the same way (if they even can get a job after this, or find any form of enjoyment in their careers).
Post by: oohhboy on January 16, 2007, 02:15:19 AM
I knew at the time that too much water would make you sick, but unless you forced it, you wouldn't get any further than "I am full and bloated, I am out". In some ways we were lucky nothing happened due to the fact everybody had an "Out". nothing was at state except for some pride. Mind you though, nowdays, we play similar games with alcohol....
Post by: jasonditz on January 16, 2007, 02:54:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: D-Caf
I'm not sure where you people are getting the 40oz information, but she drank for more than that.
She drank 224 ounces of water for the contest. That's 6.62 Liters of water. That's 1.75 Gallons of water. They were drinking a half pint every 15 minutes and then given larger bottles to drink after the first hour. That means she most likely drank all that water in less than 3 hours with no other source of nutrients or excercise or going the bathroom. It is recommended that you drink 64 ounces of water each day normally.
That's an interesting change of info. The original article I saw said she drank five 8-oz. bottles and part of a larger bottle before stopping. Now places like the Sac. Bee are reporting five times that amount. I wonder which is correct.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 16, 2007, 03:37:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: WuTangTurtle
my local tv news station did a small thing about it, apparently the mother did sign a waiver so I'm not sure if the radio station can get into trouble sadly.
Funny thing about contracts: you can't waive somebody else's rights. If she had merely been hospitalized, she might not have been able to win damages from the radio station. Honestly, I have no idea how such waivers typically hold up in court. However, I know for a fact that the waiver could not have bound her family.
If lawyers get involved, they will sue whoever is involved that has deep pockets. That's just the way it is, sadly. If Nintendo was providing the prize, it's open season. If the station bought the Wii off a store shelf, I'm not sure what will happen. The station was using a Nintendo trademark in a promotion, so it's very likely that they got Nintendo's permission, which would probably be enough for lawyers to argue Nintendo endorsed the contest. The company that bottled the water will probably get sued, too.
If Nintendo had chosen a different name, would this have happened? Maybe not. If I built a time machine and assassinated Adolf Hitler before he rose to power, could World War II have been avoided? Who knows, but it doesn't make the Holocaust my fault for not building a time machine. /.'s BadAnalogyGuy would be proud.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 16, 2007, 05:01:11 AM
It was a lame attempt at dark humour. Although I do think the name is dumb as f*ck I don't blame Nintendo for what happened. Now technically if they picked a different name this wouldn't have happened but that's just a fluke thing. There was no negligence on Nintendo's part. And unless they're intentionally short changing us I don't blame shortages either. Is Sony responsible for the people killed for a PS3? No. That's just an unfortunate incident that just happens to be related.
It's like is someone stole your car and then ran someone over with it. Yeah if you had parked your car somewhere else the same scenario may not have happened but it still wasn't your fault.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 16, 2007, 06:10:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell You can't compare the DSL and the Wii, so stop doing it.
I've been doing THAT since the Wii's announcement (back when it was called the Revolution) after the controller's unveiling. Where were you THEN?
But yes I can, and I will. I've compared the DS vs. PSP and used that to predict the outcome of the Wii vs. PS3 and, GASP, my predictions on the subject have been EERILY accurate.
However, the only necessary comparison for this argument is this: Nintendo can't competently keep a product which is in immensely high demand on the shelves even after it has been out for a year, ergo, Nintendo's manufacturing SUCKS.
To be fair, maybe Nintendo is still so unused to having products which people actually want that they've yet to realize it, but if Nintendo hasn't caught up to demand for the DSL yet, then guess what?
Expect the Wii to be sold out everywhere for the remainder of 2007, folks. I think Iwata has done great things for Nintendo, but it's time to start opening factories like it's going out of style.
Right now, the Wii isn't in any danger of being OVERproduced, just like there has YET to be any overproduction for the DSL even after a YEAR.
This woman's death is tragic, and if we had exchanged places, I too would be dead from water toxicity (mainly because I didn't know it was possible...) because I'm still trying to acquire two more Wiis for friends and despite the fact that I've been pestering local (and distant) retailers like a goddamn unswattable wasp, I STILL can't get any more f*cking Wiis.
Nintendo's sh*tty manufacturing is the catalyst here. If Wiis were widely available, the radio station wouldn't have done a contest like this (or they would have done it for TMEX or some other rare toy). There are many other factors, but the whole thing could have been avoided if Nintendo simply had their sh*t together when it comes to manufacturing.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 06:24:59 AM
Like I said already, I am willing to forgive Nintendo for not having any Wiis now since it was just released and history dictates that new consoles are extremely hard to find a few months after launch (except for the PS3, which is everywhere right now...). And they did just come out of a worldwide launch.
But like I kept saying if by summer Wiis are still EXTREMELY hard to find something is up at Nintendo, as if someone at Nintendo truly doesn't want to sell like crazy.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 16, 2007, 07:07:06 AM
Seriously, people are being way too lax on them: this is a company. The entire point of companies is that they have entire departments to handle this sh*t before it becomes a huge problem (and there's only a few bigger problems than having demand for your product but not having the supply).
This happened with the DSL and it's happening again with the Wii. What will it take for Nintendo to learn?
Post by: jasonditz on January 16, 2007, 07:45:25 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 07:56:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Being "fair" would be assuming that Nintendo has the good common sense to increase supply of their products for the xmas season since it's the biggest buying frenzy.
Seriously, people are being way too lax on them: this is a company. The entire point of companies is that they have entire departments to handle this sh*t before it becomes a huge problem (and there's only a few bigger problems than having demand for your product but not having the supply).
This happened with the DSL and it's happening again with the Wii. What will it take for Nintendo to learn?
I am being somewhat lax on them now because I can somewhat understand why they are having problems trying to keep up with the Wii demand and again, this type of crap has happened before.
Like I have been saying all this time, they have till summer to get their crap together. If by then there are STILL taking their sweet time replenishing supplies, then they have dropped the ball greatly.
And SB, while I agree that they NEED to ante up their supplies, I am somewhat inclined to believe that perhaps Nintendo is experiencing problems that are beyond their control. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Reggie or any other higher up at Nintendo is DEMANDING day and night that shipments of the system come faster and in plentiful quantities, but someone is guilty and is delaying the advancement of the systems.
I will give them time to get their act together. If they fail by then, something is up and no amount of fan cover up and excuses can hide the truth that Nintendo has messed up their own system productions.
Post by: Blue Plant on January 16, 2007, 07:56:24 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 16, 2007, 08:05:36 AM
Besides, the DSL, which is insanely proven in the market, was likewise out of stock. Their manufacturing dept. needs to buy themselves a clue.
Also, I'm betting Wiis will continue to be sold out until...September. That's my prediction, and while I hope I'm wrong, it wouldn't at all surprise me if this was the case.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 08:06:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Blue Plant
As well as no company wants to make way too many systems/products on the off chance they bomb and are stuck sitting in a warehouse. Sales predictions are one thing, fear of telling the shareholders that your new system is ill-received and you made way too many of them is another thing.
That is understandable with the Wii, but the DS is more than a proven success. The system is still selling by the thousands each week, so Nintendo shouldn't be afraid of overstocking the DS since it will all be sold out in a month or two.
And even when I mentioned that this is a typical post launch issue it still doesn't hurt them to ante up the production of the system and meet the demand before it dies down.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 16, 2007, 08:12:18 AM
That's a long time. I think something like that could actually kill the Wii's momentum. Third parties want a good sized userbase and may lose interest if a lack of supply puts a "cap" on the userbase size. But for now I think Nintendo's okay. Right now having a shortage is probably for the best because the Wii lineup for the next few months looks like total weaksauce. It probably is better for a lot of people to want to own a Wii but to not have the experience of going through a drought firsthand. If the Wii is readily available everywhere around the same time the drought ends then for a large portion of the Wii userbase the Wii has always had a good selection, even though reality shows otherwise. The drought then becomes something that only affects the hardcore Nintendo fans, who by now have enough patience to deal with that sort of thing.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 16, 2007, 08:16:59 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 16, 2007, 08:23:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
That's a long time. I think something like that could actually kill the Wii's momentum. Third parties want a good sized userbase and may lose interest if a lack of supply puts a "cap" on the userbase size. But for now I think Nintendo's okay. Right now having a shortage is probably for the best because the Wii lineup for the next few months looks like total weaksauce. It probably is better for a lot of people to want to own a Wii but to not have the experience of going through a drought firsthand. If the Wii is readily available everywhere around the same time the drought ends then for a large portion of the Wii userbase the Wii has always had a good selection, even though reality shows otherwise. The drought then becomes something that only affects the hardcore Nintendo fans, who by now have enough patience to deal with that sort of thing.
I don't mean that there won't be any Wiis until then: I mean that even if Nintendo increases production dramatically, they'll still be completely out until that time due to demand.
I think the vein of demand runs deeper than anyone suspects. In my thread about the viral chain, I pointed out that every Wii sold with Wii Sports as a pack-in has a greater chance of selling additional Wiis than it does NOT selling additional Wiis.
This stems from the fact that Wii Sports is, as Nintendo predicted, the ultimate piece of non-gamer software to entice people who would have never dreamed about owing a Wii. It gets them talking to their friends about it, how videogames and exercise have merged into one entity and when I tell them "$250 and it comes with Wii Sports", they're immediately sold.
The echoing reaction to the Wii from everyone I've seen is "I want one...". Like I said, I think the demand runs deeper than even Nintendo predicted. I think they've created a phenomenon which surpasses the original NES.
I still think they should have been able to dump out more Wiis than this, though, but I am dire curious to see how deep this vein runs and if I am correct in my prediction.
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I think all companies should be held liable for making hot products that sell out like crazy, or products that could possibly cause people to hold and do stupid competitions because of either availability or price. I'm sorry but this is pretty pathetic to hold Nintendo responsible for creating a freaken game system that you could buy off ebay for 400$ or so without doing a contest. Get real people, you are looking ridiculous to hold a company responsible that released an entertainment product that some retarded radio station created a contest for. Let me ask you when was the first time 3+ million consoles were released around launch?
They're not directly accountable, no. They didn't know some assclown radio station was going to pull a stunt like this.
But like I said, had Wii supply been better, this woman wouldn't be dead.
It's not directly Nintendo's fault, but it's still a fact.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 08:27:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I think all companies should be held liable for making hot products that sell out like crazy, or products that could possibly cause people to hold and do stupid competitions because of either availability or price. I'm sorry but this is pretty pathetic to hold Nintendo responsible for creating a freaken game system that you could buy off ebay for 400$ or so without doing a contest. Get real people, you are looking ridiculous.
This is something I've been debating with myself ever since SB brought it up...
I find it extremely hard to deny that the rarity of the system did have something to do with it. But at the same time, I find it very silly to put all of the blame on Nintendo since there were many aspects that came into play.
Which makes me ask myself; How do we know that most of the stuff we are saying is fueled by our own anger and bitterness towards the Wii being very hard to find?
I know that when I was doing Wii hunting for my nephew, I was mad as hell to the point where I became emo about it. But what I did is I talked to my nephew, then to my parents and decided to just wait till the hype and the demand die down and the price is slightly better. I felt better about it afterwards since the thing that was annoying me the most was that I was hunting one for my nephew, and the less successful I was the more guilt stricken and sad I became, which why I believe that the children's disappointment may have lead the woman to do this.
And forgive my bluntness, but I wouldn't be surprised if SB has bitterness about is as well. He has mentioned that he has had nightmares about Wii hunting and whenever someone brings it up he makes a BIG mention of it, this thread being the most recent.
Post by: IceCold on January 16, 2007, 08:28:47 AM
QuoteIt's a fact now? Oh, please.. that's just ridiculous.
But like I said, had Wii supply been better, this woman wouldn't be dead.
It's not directly Nintendo's fault, but it's still a fact.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 16, 2007, 08:29:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
But like I said, had Wii supply been better, this woman wouldn't be dead.
It's not directly Nintendo's fault, but it's still a fact.
That doesn't follow. People will still do silly things for free stuff, even if the prize is something they could buy in a store for less hassle. Maybe this contest would have drawn a little less attention, but it's still a prize worth $250.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 16, 2007, 08:31:13 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 16, 2007, 08:33:35 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 08:38:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
That is still terrible reasoning, Nintendo did what they could to meet demand. Really I have my doubts they expected Wii to do nearly as well as it has, like the DS before it. Let me ask you a question then, if someone held a contest for, let's say, a plasma TV or even a cheaper device, like maybe the new iPhone and someone died from that contest. Are you going to attribute any blame to that company for having the product on the market? Because the logical conclusion from your statements is that companies should be held responsible (even if not directly) for releasing something people will do something extreme (or maybe not extreme as in this case) things for.
Just in case, are you talking to me or to SB?
If it is me, believe me when I say that the more I think about it, the more I think blaming Nintendo is stupid. Again, the rarity of the system may have driven the woman to do something extreme, but you are right in that Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it. They released the system, it sold out and its hard to find.
I still believe that there were many things that caused the woman's death, but trying to put a blame on Nintendo somehow is kinda stupid.
If you are talking to SB, well, try not to pay too much attention. I'm willing to go on a limb here and say the reason SB is saying this is because he is experiencing a lot of stress trying to find Wiis for someone else.
I know this because is happened to me when I went Wii hunting. I had a terrible week because of it, and my nephew wondering about it didn't make it any easier.
Quote
You know it is kind of funny that you guys, Smash and Pap, have been having such a tough time finding a Wii since right before Christmas I went to my local Fred Meyer and Voila I found TWO. In fact they got them in like 10 minutes prior to me getting there.
Luck, my friend...LUCK.
SB has called every store in his area (and he has a lot of stores to choose from) and no Wiis.
I did my hardest to find Wiis in my area and absolutely nothing.
Again, you were LUCKY.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 16, 2007, 08:45:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
You know it is kind of funny that you guys, Smash and Pap, have been having such a tough time finding a Wii since right before Christmas I went to my local Fred Meyer and Voila I found TWO. In fact they got them in like 10 minutes prior to me getting there.
So you think TWO Wiis constitutes a healthy shipment of the console, then?
But that's the entire point: you got there 10 MINUTES and in another 10 minutes they would have been GONE.
And if not, I'll buy them BOTH off of you, pay shipping costs, and throw $20 each in for your trouble.
As for the woman being dead, I think I'm projecting my own struggles in here, but the odds are heavily in favor that she didn't want to pay the $400 on ebay for a Wii (or couldn't afford it) and her kids wanted one quite badly. I know that because I'm in the EXACT same situation, just substitute "kids" with "friends".
You're right, it's not a FACT, but I'm 90% positive that this was her reason for doing so.
Like I said, in her place, I'd be dead as well, since neither of us knew of the dangers of water toxicity (I figured I'd just vomit up the water long before that ever happened...).
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 08:56:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
As for the woman being dead, I think I'm projecting my own struggles in here, but the odds are heavily in favor that she didn't want to pay the $400 on ebay for a Wii (or couldn't afford it) and her kids wanted one quite badly. I know that because I'm in the EXACT same situation, just substitute "kids" with "friends".
You're right, it's not a FACT, but I'm 90% positive that this was her reason for doing so.
Like I said, in her place, I'd be dead as well, since neither of us knew of the dangers of water toxicity (I figured I'd just vomit up the water long before that ever happened...).
As a piece of friendly advise, just how bad do these friends of yours want the Wii?
I ask because while I find it very admirable that you are doing your best to please them, absolutely NO FRIEND, not even those that have been a great deal of help, are worth the struggle of trying to find a game console.
At this point, I recommend going to them and be honest about it; that you have worked EXTREMELY hard to find a Wii, but nothing has showed up and there's nothing you can do about it.
Its understandable that you would go through a lot of trouble trying to please your friends, but again its a console. It wouldn't be as bad if you are trying to help them out on something that they truly need or has validity (like money for school, an operation, medicine, finance a home, helping them achieving something, help them during bad times and such), but its just a game console.
We had to do this with my nephew since we worked hard trying to find him one and through a lot of talks, we convinced him that he will get a Wii eventually, but not now and that he doesn't need it. It saved us a lot of hassle and emotional stress.
If they truly are your friends they will understand that you did your best and that you are incredible friend for going through some great lengths trying to help them. If they bitch at you about it, you might want to reconsider some things...
Post by: vudu on January 16, 2007, 08:57:09 AM
QuoteIf the woman didn't have kids she wouldn't be dead.
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
But like I said, had Wii supply been better, this woman wouldn't be dead.
It's not directly Nintendo's fault, but it's still a fact.
If the woman didn't live in Sacramento she wouldn't be dead.
If the woman had learned Japanese and gone to work for Nintendo five years ago, thus securing herself a Wii she wouldn't be dead.
If the woman's mother was addicted to heroin while pregnant thus giving birth to a mentally handicapped child she wouldn't be dead.
These are all facts.
Post by: Arbok on January 16, 2007, 08:57:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I still believe that there were many things that caused the woman's death, but trying to put a blame on Nintendo somehow is kinda stupid.
"Kinda" is a loose term here, it is stupid to blame Nintendo for it, period really.
Did people blame Sony for someone getting shot over a PS3? Did people blame Sony for kids running their car through a store window to steal a PS2?
No, as it's not the company's fault, regardless of their handling of getting areas supplied. This isn't a necessity, as VGrevolution stated, it's a game console. What the prize was doesn't really matter in this case, as it could have just as easily been $500 which would have still convinced people to act crazy for it, especially since you could buy a Wii off eBay with some money to spare with that. If you are going to blame Nintendo you could just as easily blame the kids for wanting it in the first place by that logic.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 09:05:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
I still believe that there were many things that caused the woman's death, but trying to put a blame on Nintendo somehow is kinda stupid.
"Kinda" is a loose term here, it is stupid to blame Nintendo for it, period really.
Did people blame Sony for someone getting shot over a PS3? Did people blame Sony for kids running their car through a store window to steal a PS2?
No, as it's not the company's fault, regardless of their handling of getting areas supplied. This isn't a necessity, as VGrevolution stated, it's a game console. What the prize was doesn't really matter in this case, as it could have just as easily been $500 which would have still convinced people to act crazy for it, especially since you could buy a Wii off eBay with some money to spare with that. If you are going to blame Nintendo you could just as easily blame the kids for wanting it in the first place by that logic.
Well, I do recall some people saying "This wouldn't have happened if Sony had handled the PS3 launch better". I don't know where, but the claims were indeed made at one point.
As for everything else, you're right. This sort of thing has happened before.
I remember when kids would stab each other trying to get their latest Pokemon cards and there would be riots at Burger king trying to get the latest Pokemon toys. I know some people said "This is Nintendo's fault for creating such a sickeningly addictive series" , but is it, really? I'm sure the guy that created Pokemon just created it for the hell of it, I'm sure he never expected it to be a worldwide phenomenon to the point where people would kill for it.
This is a human nature; to go through any lengths trying to get something their desire. Its kinda like the triforce in Zelda, the goddesses created it for the good of the people, but it wasn't their fault that it sent the kingdom of Hyrule into a never ending war.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 16, 2007, 09:10:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu These are all facts.
I'm not saying they aren't, I'm just using one more example of Nintendo's god-awful manufacturing department to vent about them.
Quote
As a piece of friendly advise, just how bad do these friends of yours want the Wii?
Like I said, I didn't know it could result in death. Had I known, I wouldn't have done it.
Also, I realize Wii shortage wasn't the only contributing factor, but I'm quite certain it didn't HELP.
How do we know the woman wasn't desperately trying to win the Wii so she could sell it on ebay and pay rent for the next month? The Wii shortage could be the root of the cause in more ways than one.
But like I said, it's not Nintendo's fault and they shouldn't be blamed for it, just that the Wii shortage couldn't possibly be helping the situation.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 09:17:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
As a piece of friendly advise, just how bad do these friends of yours want the Wii?
Like I said, I didn't know it could result in death. Had I known, I wouldn't have done it.
Logic dictates that overly heavy consumption of anything, even the stuff the body needs, will cause damage.
But here's the thing I just realized, what about the other contestants? There hasn't been any mention of how they have handled the treatment, especially if they were all submitted to the same rules.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 16, 2007, 10:26:28 AM
Post by: UniversalJuan on January 16, 2007, 10:46:05 AM
On topic, I feel for the loss of this lady. Death from drinking too much water is a little known thing, hell, I personally didn't know about it until this incident! So to that extent, I can't exactly call her silly for doing this (Unless she started to feel bad during the contest and kept going, but I don't know this so I won't comment) nor can I place blame on Nintendo...not their fault, period. The closest thing that could possibly be blamed, without knowing all the details, is the radio station. Buuut I'm no investigator, unless I'm playing PW, so I'll leave it at that.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 11:10:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UniversalJuan
AS I've stated time and again, I work at GameStop (Yes I know, instant devil, etc etc, but hear me out). We have, fairly, frequent shipments of Wii every week. Bare minimum of 3 but up to 12. When we get in our Wii? They sell out in less than 30 minutes, without fail. Smash, your bashing of Nintendo's failure to meet supply would make an assload more sense and wouldn't anger me personally so much if I didn't see a company that is trying their damnedest to get product out there for mutliple regions at once (I mean damn...profit. Who wants that right?! Certainly not Nintendo, they're having too much fun d**king with people on the Wii shortage [Yeah..shortage..I use that term DAMN lightly]) and customers who call me about the damn thing every 5-8 minutes (Oh, we've timed it at work!). Beware Smash, the concept I'm about to put forward may astound and amaze you....demand can outstrip supply. I know, it's bizzare as all get out but I promise you it can happen, and in this case, already is. I understand that you're frustrated, and that's fine and dandy, but this sole blame of NIntendo thing is just making you look less than logical, in my own personal opinion anyway. Here are some insider suggestions to help you though. Eliminate other consumers (I'm serious...they're your real enemy here), form a friendship with someone in retail, bribery (Shifty employees can be your best friend), bite the bullet and just use eBay, create some sort of sob story and make it believable enoguh for someone to give you an inside note on when they expect their next shipment. That's all I care to try to think about at this time.
The thing that gets me and SB the most is how unstable the shipments are. It seems that one week the stores get a big shipment, then afterwards only one or two pop up in stores. It wouldn't be as annoying if the shipments were constant.
In my case, I've called Gamestops and EB Games stores in my area and they seem to never get any consoles. Seriously, they always tell me "call during this day" and they fail to receive any Wiis. I've been told of stores who will NOT be getting any Wiis till February.
So when you have cases like these its hard not to feel frustrated.
Although I agree about the worldwide launch thing. Maybe that's the thing that is truly preventing Nintendo from making more systems, since they have to replenish systems in all the major regions of the world all at once rather that just one by one.
I think its safe to assume that we are not Nintendo, thus we don't know what is exactly going on.
Post by: D-Caf on January 16, 2007, 02:15:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Logic dictates that overly heavy consumption of anything, even the stuff the body needs, will cause damage.
But here's the thing I just realized, what about the other contestants? There hasn't been any mention of how they have handled the treatment, especially if they were all submitted to the same rules.
The women who died was the runner up. They have interviewed the women who won and she has said that after the contest the two of them were both throwing up in the bathroom backstage. Every person reacts differently to stresses on the body. Many of the other contestants pulled out earlier because they weren't feeling well after drinking lesser quantities of water. Its the same as how some people can drink more liqueur before getting alcohol poisoning. Each persons body reacts differently. This was apparently beyond what her body could deal with on it's own.
Post by: IceCold on January 16, 2007, 02:34:32 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 16, 2007, 02:36:40 PM
And oh yeah, don't call a store about Wii shipments. You'll simply be too late. Either you're lucky enough to witness Wii units restocked in front of your eyes like I did at Target some weeks ago, or you need those friendly internet tips that mention when a major retail chain will put them on sale to coincide with sunday ads, and get in line accordingly (like i did, with Target).
Like how... Target is now withholding Wii's for sale on Sunday, January 21st.
Post by: stevey on January 16, 2007, 02:44:08 PM
Quote
A Sacramento area radio station fired 10 employees Tuesday, including three morning disc jockeys, after a mother of three died following an on-air water-drinking contest last week at the station’s studios.
The hosts of KDND-FM’s “Morning Rave” - who go by the on-air names Trish, Maney and Lukas - were fired a day after the station announced it was suspending the show and investigating the circumstances surrounding the death of Jennifer Lea Strange.
link
Post by: WuTangTurtle on January 16, 2007, 04:21:52 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 16, 2007, 04:49:50 PM
As for the other contestant, maybe the woman's body was too weak to handle all that water, especially if its true that the other contestants drank the same amount of water and only got somewhat sick and puked.
Still a dangerous idea, though.
Post by: Strell on January 16, 2007, 04:50:07 PM
Holy sh*t. Are you kidding me? I imagine there are thousands of pages of data sitting at NoA's HQ right now, with some poor schmuck reading over them, trying to decide why Bumf*ck gets less units than Los Angeles, or why Houston needs twice as many this week than it did the week before. Do you guys honestly not expect Nintendo to try and scale shipments toward demand in various parts of the country? Someone in this thread said he got two quite easily, and two other people can't find them. That's the exact disparity Nintendo is trying to alleviate, and yet you turn it into a "omfg, this is teh proofs NIntendo is teh harding!!!111"
WtF.
I waited 19 hours on the cold hard ground to get my system. 19 hours of 30-40 degree weather, few good snacks, NO ONE to talk to the majority of the time, no way to lay down horizontally, and NO ONE there had DSes (though I did see two PSPs, which almost threw me into a fit of frenzy cuz I was soooo looking forward to Mario Kart/Tetris/etc all night long). Not to mention a 60 year old woman who was waiting for her grandsons and would ask me an annoying question in a voice that was ABOUT 40 decibels too low for me to hear adequately the first time.
One of my friends waited for about 12 hours out in the same kind of weather for a system for his gf's little sister. And he was about to do the same for himself, except that TRU screwed up and sold their systems a day earlier than sources said they would.
My mom, by sheer luck, grabbed two systems after a 6 hour wait, thereby saving my aunt from "the terrible task of explaining to Andrew that Santa doesn't exist" (which I agree is a stupid and extremely exaggerated situation, but my aunt is just loopy like that).
I didn't have the greatest time camping out, and no one else in my family/friends did either, but none of us are complaining. And I don't feel the need to act like I deserve compensation, which I've seen people DEMAND for incidents and trivialities FAR LESS than I've experienced. (Quick side note: WHen I worked tech support, a woman called saying she didn't get a manual with her laptop. I explained it was on her desktop as a PDF. She said ok, then proceeded to scream at me demanding I pay her back for the 10 minutes she'd been on the phone waiting for me. People just don't know when to stfu.)
Point is very simple regarding Nintendo's liability here. How do you determine when a company is at fault versus the person? Where is the liability in terms of company vs personal?
Easy. The second a company does something to INTENTIONALLY cause issues and/or problems and/or pain (thus operating FULLY KNOWING they are willingly creating a bad situation), then it's their fault. That's the end of their liability. If you go into a restaurant and they serve meat that's been left out overnight, then they are liable.
Personal responsibility? That should be going on at ALL times. EVery second of your life you ought to be watching your own ass. Obviously there are going to be times when you are unsure/unaware/naive, but unfortunately that begins, sustains, and ends with you. Meaning this woman should have known something was up when she was experiencing all this pain.
If these two things are true, then who is directly at fault? The radio station for not having medical personnel on hand at all times. They didn't do their homework, they pulled this contest out of nowhere, and now the blame rests there. Nintendo's responsibility in this situation is to acknowledge what happened and to pay their respects.
Funny, I didn't see this much uproar when the kid the other week electrified himself through his GBA.
Same situation here for the most part.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 17, 2007, 05:50:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UniversalJuan AS I've stated time and again, I work at GameStop (Yes I know, instant devil, etc etc, but hear me out). We have, fairly, frequent shipments of Wii every week. Bare minimum of 3 but up to 12.
12 units isn't a GOOD number, though...
Quote
demand can outstrip supply.
Yes, because supply sucks right now. If your store was receiving 50 units a week and they all sold out within 30 minutes, then I'd begrudgingly agree that Nintendo is indeed doing everything they can to pump Wiis out.
But I've talked to many retailers. My local Wal-Mart hasn't gotten ANY in for the past two weeks. Neither has Gamestop. Luckily, Best Buy and Target have apparently been hoarding their shipments for some rereleases, and I LOVE rereleases because it's the only chance a person with a job typically has of finding a Wii right now.
Quote
but this sole blame of NIntendo thing is just making you look less than logical
I think you missed where I said:
Quote
But like I said, it's not Nintendo's fault and they shouldn't be blamed for it, just that the Wii shortage couldn't possibly be helping the situation.
Quote
in my own personal opinion anyway. Here are some insider suggestions to help you though. Eliminate other consumers (I'm serious...they're your real enemy here), form a friendship with someone in retail, bribery (Shifty employees can be your best friend), bite the bullet and just use eBay, create some sort of sob story and make it believable enoguh for someone to give you an inside note on when they expect their next shipment. That's all I care to try to think about at this time.
I'm going to be lining up for the rererelease at either Target or BB come sunday, but thanks for the advice anyway.
First of all, again, Nintendo isn't to BLAME for this woman's death. I already admitted that I was wrong in calling it a "fact" since we don't know why she was doing it (she might have wanted to resell the Wii on ebay for the $$$, for all we know). I just meant that the Wii shortage couldn't possibly be helping.
Second, Nintendo is terrible at manufacturing and this only exacerbates the problem. As I mentioned earlier, the DSL is sold out everywhere as well. Yet, it's just about as rare as Wiis and it has been out for the better part of a year now.
If they can't even keep a product properly supplied after a year, then I think it's pretty clear that demand for the Wii can never be 100% to blame for its absence from store shelves.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 17, 2007, 08:34:43 AM
BTW I do have some new facts on the case:
-Radio station was well aware of the dangers, in fact they were talking on the air about how people have died. One even asked the contestants was dieing in a joking manner (this was before that woman was really sick)
-Waivers were signed
-10 employees were fired over the incident
-There was no medical staff on hand to monitor the contest
-The woman who died drank right around 2 gallons of water (she was the runner up)
-Not sure about this one, but it seems as if her stomach burst
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 17, 2007, 08:56:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution I keep hearing it repeated how terrible Nintendo has been at manufacturing, so tell me which company has manufactured and sold well over 3 million consoles a month after launch?
Which company couldn't meet supply of a desired product even a year after its release?
It's not a question of how many Wiis Nintendo has sold, it's the fact that the rate at which they're replenishing supply is pitiful and the lack of availability of the DSL across most of the country indicates that being caught off guard by the Wii's success is only PART of the picture.
As I've said numerous times, Nintendo KNOWS how popular the DSL is. At this point, unless they have a DS2 right around the corner, then they could overstock 5-7 million DSLs and every last one of them would be sold, without question. Yet, they chose not to do that for the holidays, instead choosing to allow the unit to sell out and miss tons of potential sales.
You may think I'm being a stickler about this, but companies have divisions with the sole responsibility of knowing how much of a product to make (aka. "market research") and if Nintendo's market research division can't even get the numbers right for a product which has been out for a year, then what more evidence do you need to suggest that they're incompetent?
In short, Nintendo is terrible at rolling out product. You can only be "caught off guard" on your success so many times before the explanation has to change to "incompetence" and the current trickles of Wiis and DSLs point to incompetence as the culprit.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 17, 2007, 09:03:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution I keep hearing it repeated how terrible Nintendo has been at manufacturing, so tell me which company has manufactured and sold well over 3 million consoles a month after launch?
Which company couldn't meet supply of a desired product even a year after its release?
It's not a question of how many Wiis Nintendo has sold, it's the fact that the rate at which they're replenishing supply is pitiful and the lack of availability of the DSL across most of the country indicates that being caught off guard by the Wii's success is only PART of the picture.
As I've said numerous times, Nintendo KNOWS how popular the DSL is. At this point, unless they have a DS2 right around the corner, then they could overstock 5-7 million DSLs and every last one of them would be sold, without question. Yet, they chose not to do that for the holidays, instead choosing to allow the unit to sell out and miss tons of potential sales.
You may think I'm being a stickler about this, but companies have divisions with the sole responsibility of knowing how much of a product to make (aka. "market research") and if Nintendo's market research division can't even get the numbers right for a product which has been out for a year, then what more evidence do you need to suggest that they're incompetent?
In short, Nintendo is terrible at rolling out product. You can only be "caught off guard" on your success so many times before the explanation has to change to "incompetence" and the current trickles of Wiis and DSLs point to incompetence as the culprit.
Let's forget the DS Lite, what new game console has had 3+ million manufactured and sold within a month EVER? The point is that the Wii's launch was HUGE by any standard when you take into account worldwide and no company has came close to the numbers Nintendo has managed with a new console.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 17, 2007, 09:59:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution Let's forget the DS Lite, what new game console has had 3+ million manufactured and sold within a month EVER? The point is that the Wii's launch was HUGE by any standard when you take into account worldwide and no company has came close to the numbers Nintendo has managed with a new console.
First of all, why should the DSL be forgotten? It's a clear indicator of Nintendo's inability to meet extended demand despite having the HISTORY OF THE CONSOLE already at their disposal.
Second, it's not the initial launch of the Wii which matters right now: it's the fact that Nintendo is still hopelessly unable to replenish the supply which I find so objectionable.
If Nintendo has a market research department, they either need to be fired or forced to wear huge wigs, red noses and makeup so they look like the clowns that they are.
The point of MR is to establish the product volume your company needs to produce in order to meet the predicted demand. How do you do this? Easy: test marketing, consumer research studies, product trials, etc.
If you took a chimpanzee, taught it basic english skills and instructed it to determine the potential sales numbers for the Nintendo Wii, even the f*cking CHIMP would have the common sense to set up some Wiis and invite random people in to try them out (most likely Wii Sports) and then ask the test subjects afterwards if they'd buy it, if they'd recommend it to their friends, etc.
I know all of the aforementioned because I'VE SEEN IT IN ACTION IN MY OWN LIVING ROOM (minus the talking chimp, sadly)!!! There hasn't been a single person who has tried the Wii and not wanted one for him/herself, regardless of age or gender. It's a safe assumption to say that EVERY person on these forums who owns a Wii has likely shown it to someone else and seen the reactions for her/himself.
If I had been charged with the task of determining Wii's potential sales, armed with 4 Wiimotes, an early beta of Wii Sports and a budget to hire people to aid me in the testing, I would use the chimp method and get potential customer testimonials, after which I would no DOUBT come away with the conclusion that Nintendo needs to get more factories running, full goddamn speed AHEAD.
But it's even WORSE than that, you see, because the DSL shortage doubly confirms the incompetence of Nintendo's market research department (if they even have one at all).
In the case of the DSL, they're predicting the demand of a product which has been on the market for the year and has already had its demand set in STONE. The DSL is one of the hottest items on the market and is the fastest selling handheld in history. In order for a DSL shortage to happen, SOMEONE at Nintendo's MR must have had to either say or think, "Nah, we better play it safe and not manufacture too many of these, just in case."
Despite ALL evidence to the contrary, despite the frenzy of sales in Japan and the US, despite the many 1+ million seller titles on the console, Nintendo lowballed the DSL numbers... and for CHRISTMAS, FFS!!!
This equates taking a written exam, except that when you GET the exam, all of the correct answers are filled in for you, but rather than pass the test in, you erase all of the correct answers and fill out the wrong ones.
So in short, I think Nintendo can't manufacture worth a damn and that this is definitely a factor in the current Wii shortage. In order to determine by how much, we'd need manufacturing information which I don't believe is publicly available, including potential bottlenecks from component suppliers, bottlenecks which the DSL should have LONG since ironed out (hence why there's no excuse for a DSL shortage except incompetence).
Could Nintendo have predicted the current demand for the Wii? Yes. I've seen MANY sources who did just this WITHOUT having access to consumer trials.
I don't know by how much Nintendo is to blame for the current shortage, but the short answer is that they are FAR more to blame than most people insist.
In the business world, any company which is "caught off guard" by anything is f*cking incompetent. End of story.
Post by: Strell on January 17, 2007, 10:16:41 AM
It's clear you have no idea about anything.
You're just whining and projecting your own subjectiveness onto a company that is trying it's absolute hardest to meet demand.
Welcome to life.
Microsoft couldn't meet pre-orders of 2004 until April of 2005. Sony never has to worry about this because the PSP and PS3 are sitting on shelves.
Nintendo met those and has managed to sell a few more million systems beyond the initial demand, and the demand has snowballed with each shipment. The fact that you can't see this is astounding.
You want a metaphor? Ok. If I built a damn and said it could handle X amount of water the day it is finished, and it succeeds in doing this, then that is good. However, when you've got torrential downpour immediately after that first day EVERY DAY afterward, the dam can't hold.
This isn't like South Park where Cartmen kept people from coming into his amusement park. It would be like if he let in the maximum amount on the first day and 90% of that got filled. Then the next day 92. Within a week he was at 100%, and he has to turn people away. Then in the following weeks, due to demand, he is trying to expand as fast as he can. But for every 2 people he can let in, now 4 want in, when at the first day of being open, none of those four had ever heard of the park.
Congrats, Nintendo. You've managed to bring in millions of people into your fold who, this time last year, didn't give two sh*ts about you and didn't even play video games at all.
And you've managed to piss off your loyal fanbase. You know, the same loyal fanbase that does nothing but bitch and moan and then whines when they can't get a system, when they spent October and November theorizing that "I'll totally be able to get one easily without camping out, preordering, or getting off my fat ass."
Even when you sell out of your systems repeatedly and win back market share, it's your loyal fanbase that is whining the most. It's no wonder you've told us all to piss off and that we'll have to make do with your decisions, because even when we're seeing you succeed, we're pissed off. When you take a step forward, we whine like you've really gone back three.
This is exactly like when Nintendo delays a game. No matter how much they perfect it, people whine that it took too long. And when they rush it, they whine it wasn't polished. Son of a bitch.
Grow up and get over yourselves. If you want a system, go park your ass in freezing weather for a few hours. You're young and vigorous. The least you could do is shut up and actually try to get one instead of folding over and pretending your issues somehow apply to humanity at large.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 17, 2007, 10:55:23 AM
If anything, Nintendo's attention on maintaining DS Lite supplies preceded the Wii launch long ago. Now it seems the two devices are at odds with regards to available manufacturing resources.
Nintendo facing high DS demand in Japan was one thing, Nintendo facing GLOBAL DEMAND ON TWO SYSTEM FRONTS is a whole new predicament for them.
Post by: Kairon on January 17, 2007, 10:59:01 AM
I want to be happy. Can't we be happy again?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: SixthAngel on January 17, 2007, 11:00:31 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 17, 2007, 11:30:03 AM
I already said that I am willing to forgive the shortages now because this type of crap has happened before with all consoles, especially the insanely popular ones. But like I said, if by summer or early fall Wiis are STILL extremely hard to find something is definitely up. What excuses are you guys going to use? "The Wii is like the best ever! The only reason there are still shortages is because the console is still selling! Its so popular Nintendo can't keep up with the demands!".
And the only reason you guys are cool about this is because you already have your Wiis. You pre-ordered, you stood in line for more than an hour and you played the thing to dead. The worst part is over for you. However, there are still many of us that are working HARD to find at least one system on sale and it becomes extremely frustrating when the results always lead to nothing. Again, if the shipments were always constant and non stop it wouldn't be as annoying since we know that there will always be Wiis in stock. But like me and S_B have already mentioned, the shipments are inconsistent to the point where stores are NOT getting any systems (or accessories in some cases). Some stores don't even KNOW when new consoles are coming in. Again, this sort of crap wouldn't happen if the shipments were constant or at least we knew when they are going to happen, instead of hoping for a solid confirmation.
And Strell, we would GLADLY wait in line, constantly call stores and hunt around like the crazed fanboys that we are, but there's a problem...we have responsibilities to attend to.
S_B works on a small, family owned company and they really need him. He can't merrily skip work everyday just to go Wii hunting. And by the time he is done with work, stores are either closed or already sold out of systems.
In my case, I live in an extremely boondocks hometown. How bad is it? There are absolutely no malls or big stores around here. In order to visit a Gamestop we must do an hour long car trip to the next city. We simply don't have the time and money to do this EVERYDAY, and even if we got lucky by the time we arrive chances are the store is sold out of Wiis because people that already live there got there FIRST. And I am not exaggerating here, S_B witnessed this first hand.
There is a good chance there are other families and fans that are just as upset as we are because the shipments are un-even.
Again, I am willing to forgive this and pass it off as the typical post launch trauma where systems are harder to find than a needle on a haystack. But if by late summer or early fall systems are still hard to find and Nintendo doesn't massively restock for the holidays its going to be HARD to come up with an excuse for that. VERY hard.
Is S_B a little too upset about this? Yeah, he is, especially since he is trying his hardest to help his friends out. I too was the same way when I was doing Wii hunting. But is it fair to belittle him simply because he believes that Nintendo could've done a better job, worldwide launch and all? No.
Again, I think many of you already have Wiis so you don't have to go through the annoyance me, S_B and I'm sure many other fans and families are experiencing right now.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 17, 2007, 11:39:56 AM
If the DS is general was hard to find at Christmas then Nintendo screwed up something pretty obvious, unless they lacked the resources to fill demand. I wasn't looking for a DS at Christmas so I have no idea what things were like in my area.
I think SB is going a little overboard but this IS the company that flubbed the N64 and Gamecube. They do kind of a have a reputation of goofing up stuff that seemingly any idiot could figure out.
Post by: Mario on January 17, 2007, 12:10:08 PM
As for your life stories "NOT MY PROBLEM".
Post by: Guitar Smasher on January 17, 2007, 12:59:15 PM
NO.
Nintendo needs to make as much money as possible. If their financial guys figure that it would be less profitable to open up more factories, then they shouldn't do it. If they could be that much more profitable by ramping up production, don't you think they would (this is rhetorical, don't answer)? Do you know how many economists they have working for them?
The point is that demand is only one of the variables which affect profit.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 17, 2007, 12:59:43 PM
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Originally posted by: Mario
Smash Brother, STFU. Telling Nintendo to make more Wiis is like telling the fastest runner in the world to run faster. HE KNOWS!
As for your life stories "NOT MY PROBLEM".
Of course it isn't your problem, you probably have a Wii already. The worst is already over for you and you don't have to hunt a Wii for someone else. But chances are that if Nintendo under shipped Wiis at launch (kinda like how Sony handled the PS3) and a great deal of us failed to get Wiis we would be bitching up a storm as to why Nintendo is being slow.
Again, I agree that S_B is taking this way too heart, but part of his frustration is valid because he has worked his hardest to find Wiis only to end up back where he started or getting no possible solutions. And again, he is NOT the only one. I know there are probably many fans and families frustrated as HELL trying to find Wiis only to come out empty handed.
I know for some of you its hard to understand that because you already have Wiis and don't have to worry about going hunting for one because the worst is over for you. But I am sure if someone placed you in that situation it gets harder and harder to be calm about it.
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Nintendo needs to make as much money as possible. If their financial guys figure that it would be less profitable to open up more factories, then they shouldn't do it. If they could be that much more profitable by ramping up production, don't you think they would (this is rhetorical, don't answer)? Do you know how many economists they have working for them?
That would have some validity...if both systems were flops. The DS is already a worldwide sensation and the Wii is on its way to surpass the PS3 AND the 360.
I'm sure that whatever they would spend opening a factory they would get it all back within two of three months.
Seriously, Nintendo is constantly reporting that their profits are doubling thanks to the DS, X DS game or the Wii. By 2008, all that money is likely to become pocket change for them.
There's an old saying that goes "You need to spend money to make money". Nintendo may be investing a hefty amount of money, but it will all go towards generating even more money than before.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 17, 2007, 01:06:01 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 17, 2007, 01:10:46 PM
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Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Here is an idea if someone wants a Wii, they can go hunt for it themselves or camp out by a store that is getting them in. Problem solved either way, besides that, you snooze you lose, tough.
That would be very ideal, if people didn't have lives to attend to.
Seriously, stop throwing the "you should camp out!" suggestion as not everybody has the time, money and patience to sit out in the cold every single day in hopes of getting a console.
If the opportunity arises and we can do it, we will do it, but its not something to do EVERY SINGLE DAY, especially when we have responsibilities.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 17, 2007, 01:14:05 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on January 17, 2007, 01:19:20 PM
Extremely new + extemely popular=hard to find, get used to it.
Post by: Arbok on January 17, 2007, 02:04:30 PM
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Originally posted by: pap64
Seriously, stop throwing the "you should camp out!" suggestion as not everybody has the time, money and patience to sit out in the cold every single day in hopes of getting a console.
Well...
Post by: Guitar Smasher on January 17, 2007, 03:08:13 PM
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That would have some validity...if both systems were flops. The DS is already a worldwide sensation and the Wii is on its way to surpass the PS3 AND the 360.
I'm sure that whatever they would spend opening a factory they would get it all back within two of three months.
Seriously, Nintendo is constantly reporting that their profits are doubling thanks to the DS, X DS game or the Wii. By 2008, all that money is likely to become pocket change for them.
There's an old saying that goes "You need to spend money to make money". Nintendo may be investing a hefty amount of money, but it will all go towards generating even more money than before.
It comes down to this: we don't know what's going on with Nintendo. Sure, we see that their Wii stock is bought up in seconds. But everything else (production, financing, shipping) we really don't know much about. All we can assume is that they're doing everything they can to assure maximum profitability. That's all I'm getting at.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 17, 2007, 04:10:41 PM
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Originally posted by: SixthAngel He is complaining about not being able to find a Wii for a friend who doesn't even want one badly enough to go search himself.
Pap IS the friend I'm looking for a Wii for: he lives in a mountain town in PR at least an hour drive from any Gamestop or Wal-Mart and since both of those have a "first come, first serve policy", his chances of getting one are slim to none, and no, he can't afford the ebay prices like some suggest. That, and the fact that PR gets shafted on electronics shipments anyway.
At the current rate of shipment, he'll have one next October and he's one of my best friends so I have no intention of letting him sit there hearing about how great Wii games are from me if I can find him a Wii here in the states.
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If anything, Nintendo's attention on maintaining DS Lite supplies preceded the Wii launch long ago. Now it seems the two devices are at odds with regards to available manufacturing resources.
I had considered this, and while it is a valid issue, one would assume that all factories previously producing GCs would be retrofitted to Wii production while GBA/SP/Micro factories would become DSL plants.
Given the circumstances, I do suspect that Wiis have a bottleneck somewhere, probably via one of the component manufacturers. Nintendo recently released reports that they're stepping up DSL production yet made no mention of Wii production. I think they're just afraid to let slip that Wii production has a bottleneck.
Right now, as has been readily demonstrated here, people are willing to let it slide under the heading of a plethora of excuses. In five more months, when low production would be unacceptable in the eyes of most, the kinks will probably be gone.
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Originally posted by: IanSane When we're talking about DSL shortages are we specifically talking about the DS Light or the DS in general? Because if it's just the DSL that is hard to find then it's entirely possible that Nintendo's intentionally under-supplied the DSL to encourage sales of the original DS. Few are going to buy the unsold regular DS systems if DSLs are on the shelf to them. So maybe Nintendo was counting on people to have the intention of buying a DSL, go to the store and discover that there aren't any left, and then buy a regular DS because it plays the same games anyway.
The lack of DSLs in stores said to me that Nintendo's MR must be incompetent, but you're right: it could just be a devious plan to push the last of the DS Phats off the shelves because it was clear to consumers that the DSL is the better of the two models.
If you're right, then it dismantles most of my argument. I still believe that Nintendo's MR didn't do their job in predicting Wii demand, yes, but with the DSL f*ck-up off their record, they come out looking a good deal better than they did prior.
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"where smash_brother comes to bitch about everything" because it seems he finds something to complain about in every thread.
I've been doing this most of the time I've been here. It's only when I say something that affronts the Nintendo zealots that people actually take notice and have this sort of reaction. I wanted the title "Ian in Training" for a reason.
Also, I should clarify: most everything I argue, I do so vehemently, but that's not necessarily because I'm pissed/enraged/obessed/etc., it's because I tend to argue for the sake of arguing when I find an argument I feel like pursuing.
Come this sunday, I'll have my Wiis: I'll be standing in line outside of either BB or Target (Target seems to have nicer people so I'd opt for them) with at least 1-2 friends to ensure that I can get Pap a Wii and one for a few others who may or may not want them (I might just stockpile for the future).
And for those of you who say "Let them get their own Wiis!", know this: these are people who have been intensely loyal to me and I'd happily die for them. Thus, Wii hunting for them is miniscule and doesn't really even play into my gripes with Nintendo's slow Wii turnout (especially now that I have a means to acquire Wiis).
More than anything, I want to see Wii production increase because I will cackle like a mad fiend the day the Wii's installed userbase passes that of the 360.
Post by: Arbok on January 17, 2007, 04:50:13 PM
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
...he can't afford the ebay prices like some suggest.
Still cheaper then the other two consoles, though...
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
At the current rate of shipment, he'll have one next October...
Regardless of location, buying a Wii online should be a option WAY before then, either through a store or eBay as the prices will drop down to retail sooner or later.
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Also, I should clarify: most everything I argue, I do so vehemently, but that's not necessarily because I'm pissed/enraged/obessed/etc., it's because I tend to argue for the sake of arguing when I find an argument I feel like pursuing.
Wow, that sounds so like me it's scary... fully explains the whole "balance" and "speed" in Smash Bros thing.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 17, 2007, 04:53:05 PM
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Originally posted by: SixthAngel
Pap, do you really need to jump to Smash_brother's rescue everytime somebody mentions his name? Also last I heard he already has a Wii and is looking for a friend. He is complaining about not being able to find a Wii for a friend who doesn't even want one badly enough to go search himself.
Extremely new + extemely popular=hard to find, get used to it.
In the immortal words of animated Link...WELL EXCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE ME, SIXTHANGEL!
Seriously, the reason I am defending him is because he is my friend and I understand better than most why he is so upset. We have talked about it countless of times as well as helped each other during our Wii hunts. And like I said, I know how it feels like being extremely frustrated, especially when you are hunting a Wii not for you but someone else (in my case it was for my nephew).
Yeah, I did ask him to help me find a Wii for my nephew, but lord knows we didn't put the entire job on him. I call nearly everyday to see if stores had any Wiis, my parents would check whenever they went out of town and my sister and brother in law would check in other parts of PR.
And I've been helping S_B by giving him info on rumored or confirmed Wii shipments, while I keep checking on my area. Hell, even on his vacation in PR we both checked for Wiis.
In short, the reason I am coming to his defense is because we BOTH have been going through this and we both have felt similar frustrations and anger. The difference is that S_B is far more passionate about it than me (I am letting this slip because like you said, extremely popular always equal extremely hard to find, especially during the first months of its release).
But whatever, in the words of Mario our life stories is not your problem.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 17, 2007, 05:08:23 PM
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Originally posted by: Arbok
Regardless of location, buying a Wii online should be a option WAY before then, either through a store or eBay as the prices will drop down to retail sooner or later.
Depends. Some retail outlets won't ship to PR at all and shipping tends to be more for shipping there.
I admit I'm exaggerating, but he lives far enough into the boondocks that I don't know if Fedex and UPS even know his town exists. :P
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Wow, that sounds so like me it's scary... fully explains the whole "balance" and "speed" in Smash Bros thing.
Well, in THAT case, it's semi-personal, but the truth is, the first online SSB game (hopefully Brawl) will definitely be the deciding factor for me. If Brawl is faster than Melee and has tiers, then yeah, I'll be in the market for a colony of fire ants to mail to Sakurai...
On another note, I have to agree with what Pap said: the level of "c'est la vie" around here regarding Wii availability no doubt stems from the fact that most everyone here already has their Wii.
I'm not shaking my fist at Nintendo about the Wii shortage, but I'm certain the attitude would be different if Wiis were not in the hands of most posters already...
Post by: Arbok on January 17, 2007, 05:20:06 PM
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Depends. Some retail outlets won't ship to PR at all and shipping tends to be more for shipping there.
I admit I'm exaggerating, but he lives far enough into the boondocks that I don't know if Fedex and UPS even know his town exists. :P
If that's the case, would shipping it to your own house/living area/etc for him to pick up be out of the question?
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
If Brawl is faster than Melee and has tiers, then yeah, I'll be in the market for a colony of fire ants to mail to Sakurai...
I'm trying my hardest not to touch that...
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'm not shaking my fist at Nintendo about the Wii shortage, but I'm certain the attitude would be different if Wiis were not in the hands of most posters already...
Isn't that a partial good sign for supply, though?
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 17, 2007, 05:32:21 PM
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Originally posted by: Arbok
If that's the case, would shipping it to your own house/living area/etc for him to pick up be out of the question?
Not really. He only visits once per year. It's the fact that retailers would rail him on shipping which makes it bad. We run a home business so we get decent rates from Fedex/USPS.
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I'm trying my hardest not to touch that...
I'm kidding anyway: I love Sakurai and he's already expressed how much he wants Brawl to be different from Melee.
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Isn't that a partial good sign for supply, though?
Thing is, we're the hardcore Nintendo geeks, and up until recently, even quite a few NWR regulars didn't have Wiis (some still don't).
The incoming restock has me hopeful, though. Maybe Nintendo will prove me wrong and just FLOOD the market and I can go b*tch about something else...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 17, 2007, 05:43:37 PM
As for ebay, from what I know, some auctioneers will ship internationally, Puerto Rico included, others don't. Some mayor online stores do ship to PR. Most online rental places refuse to ship anything to PR (which is why a Gamefly account is out of the question...).
In other words, some places don't have a problem shipping stuff to PR, others do.
Post by: UncleBob on January 18, 2007, 01:19:47 AM
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Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel[...]while GBA/SP/Micro factories would become DSL plants.
That would be an utterly ignorant mistake. GBASP's are still selling quite well.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 18, 2007, 05:01:52 AM
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Originally posted by: UncleBob
That would be an utterly ignorant mistake. GBASP's are still selling quite well.
True, but DSLs are out of stock and are pushing the next rung of Nintendo's handheld software sales right now.
I mean, just look at what it's doing in Japan right now:
(info from BNM and Media Crate)
Software:
1. (Wii, Nintendo) Wii Sports - 61,399 / 794,118
2. (DS, Square Enix) Dragon Quest Monsters Joker - 55,180 / 916,000
3. (Wii, Nintendo) Wii Play - 54,578 / 719,089
4. (DS, Nintendo) Common Knowledge Training - 35,819 / 1,098,912
5. (DS, Nintendo) New Super Mario Brothers - 34,628 / 4,003,134
6. (DS, Nintendo) More Brain Age - 32,865 / 3,838,652
7. (DS, Nintendo) Animal Crossing Wild World - 32,864 / 3,876,696
8. (PSP, Konami) Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops - 28,152 / 306,359
9. (DS, Nintendo) Pokemon Diamond - 22,982 / 2,502,801
10. (DS, Nintendo) Mario Kart DS - 22,640 / 1,997,233
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 18, 2007, 08:35:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
That would be an utterly ignorant mistake. GBASP's are still selling quite well.
True, but DSLs are out of stock and are pushing the next rung of Nintendo's handheld software sales right now.
I mean, just look at what it's doing in Japan right now:
(info from BNM and Media Crate)
Software:
1. (Wii, Nintendo) Wii Sports - 61,399 / 794,118
2. (DS, Square Enix) Dragon Quest Monsters Joker - 55,180 / 916,000
3. (Wii, Nintendo) Wii Play - 54,578 / 719,089
4. (DS, Nintendo) Common Knowledge Training - 35,819 / 1,098,912
5. (DS, Nintendo) New Super Mario Brothers - 34,628 / 4,003,134
6. (DS, Nintendo) More Brain Age - 32,865 / 3,838,652
7. (DS, Nintendo) Animal Crossing Wild World - 32,864 / 3,876,696
8. (PSP, Konami) Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops - 28,152 / 306,359
9. (DS, Nintendo) Pokemon Diamond - 22,982 / 2,502,801
10. (DS, Nintendo) Mario Kart DS - 22,640 / 1,997,233
Do I see a PSP game in there? Especially one that has sold over 300k? I am absolutely shocked, I may never recover.
Post by: UncleBob on January 18, 2007, 03:31:36 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 18, 2007, 05:17:59 PM
It's a devious move, but they've done worse.
Post by: UncleBob on January 19, 2007, 07:49:38 AM
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
...which will happen faster if the GBA SP goes off the market, leaving only the DS.
It's a devious move, but they've done worse.
How would selling them a GBASP and a DSL happen faster if they removed the GBASP from the market?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 19, 2007, 08:23:47 AM
The link has more details.
Lawsuit incoming
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 19, 2007, 08:43:20 AM
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Originally posted by: UncleBob How would selling them a GBASP and a DSL happen faster if they removed the GBASP from the market?
Easy: they'd sell the DS right away and start raking in software sales on both the GBA and DS games.
As for the topic, they're calling the contest dangerous and ill-advised, which I suppose is indeed true.
They should have had some medical staff on hand for this. If I'm not mistaken, eating contests probably have medical staff on hand for just such a reason so I can't imagine why this contest shouldn't have had them.
The radio station clearly didn't research the dangers beforehand and therefore are technically responsible.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 19, 2007, 11:30:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: UncleBob How would selling them a GBASP and a DSL happen faster if they removed the GBASP from the market?
Easy: they'd sell the DS right away and start raking in software sales on both the GBA and DS games.
As for the topic, they're calling the contest dangerous and ill-advised, which I suppose is indeed true.
They should have had some medical staff on hand for this. If I'm not mistaken, eating contests probably have medical staff on hand for just such a reason so I can't imagine why this contest shouldn't have had them.
The radio station clearly didn't research the dangers beforehand and therefore are technically responsible.
Like I said too they were well aware of the dangers, and were in fact joking about it on the air! So they did their research and brushed it off, which IMO puts alot of the responsibility on them.
Post by: Djunknown on April 02, 2007, 05:58:58 PM
I don't what to say. Really, I just can't say anything right now...
Post by: Blue Plant on April 02, 2007, 07:38:39 PM
Post by: UncleBob on April 03, 2007, 02:21:18 AM
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"She knew what the contest involved when she entered it and had the option to stop or discontinue her participation in the contest at any time," said Scully, outlining how prosecutors contemplated -- and ultimately decided against -- filing charges of involuntary manslaughter.
So, there is justice.
Post by: Acefondu on April 03, 2007, 02:39:19 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 03, 2007, 04:27:45 AM
Post by: Donutt007 on April 03, 2007, 08:06:14 AM
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Originally posted by: UncleBobQuote
"She knew what the contest involved when she entered it and had the option to stop or discontinue her participation in the contest at any time," said Scully, outlining how prosecutors contemplated -- and ultimately decided against -- filing charges of involuntary manslaughter.
So, there is justice.
Yes, but what did Mulder have to say about it?
But seriously, she was showing signs and if there is a chance of a medical problem the radio station should have precautions set up. If you ever listened to the clips it's pretty bad, she looked like she was pregnant she had so much water in her, then she was dizzy and had a headache, if the radio station would have had either a medical crew on hand or took her to the hospital, they could have saved her life.
Some of the other things the DJ's said were kinda creepy too. Such as: it doesn't matter she signed a waiver right? She'll just puke up any water if it's too much.
Post by: UncleBob on April 03, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on April 04, 2007, 08:16:26 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 04, 2007, 08:47:22 AM
The choice thing bugs me a little. If you choose to do something dangerous with no knowledge of the danger, just how much of that is your fault, and how much is the fault of the person who should have informed you of the danger? What changes if the person who should have told you didn't know?
Post by: Blue Plant on April 04, 2007, 09:16:06 AM
Post by: UncleBob on April 04, 2007, 12:37:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
My guess is that the DA figures that water poisoning is so little known by the general public that it wouldn't be possible to prove anything "beyond a reasonable doubt." There's more wiggle room in civil cases, though.
The choice thing bugs me a little. If you choose to do something dangerous with no knowledge of the danger, just how much of that is your fault, and how much is the fault of the person who should have informed you of the danger? What changes if the person who should have told you didn't know?
I'm tired of this "inform them of the danger" bullcrap. That's why we end up with stupid warnings that you can't bypass or turn off in video games and warnings that peanut butter may contain nuts.
People need to learn to be responsible for their own actions, period. Let's stop enabling the idiots in the public by letting them win lawsuits when they do stupid stuff and get hurt.
Coffee is hot. Duh.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 05, 2007, 04:59:53 AM
What if someone eating at a restaurant dies because poison somehow wound up in his food? Would it be his own fault for not taking the time to have the food tested for poison before consuming it? He chose to eat that food, after all. Personal responsibility and all that.
I'm all for taking responsibility for my own actions, but I understand that not everything is under my control. I live in a world so full of random chance that I could be killed suddenly right where I'm sitting, unlikely as it may be. Deciding blame is not an easy thing to do. I, for one, do not spend my time searching through medical texts looking for ways to die so that I can avoid them, and I think doing so would generally be unhealthy. So when I stumble into something dangerous that common sense doesn't warn me about, I'd appreciate it if someone knowledgeable told me to stop.
I think that, in general, anyone putting on a contest that involves anything physical at all has a responsibility to make sure it's completely safe by consulting an expert. Personal responsibility means accepting the responsibility when your negligence causes harm to someone else, too, you know.
Post by: UncleBob on April 05, 2007, 05:12:55 AM
It's stupid crazy that we're even having this conversation - How many all-you-can-eat buffets actually encourage you to eat until you're stuffed? Now, if someone died from eating too much, would we blame the resturant for not consulting with health care professionals before opening each day and determining how much food is "too much", then informing each guest how much food it's reccomended that they eat before they start eating? Perhaps these resturants should start making customers sign waivers before eating...
In one breath, people will defend the individual for "not knowing" that too much water can kill you, then in the same breath, condem the DJ's for not knowing the exact same thing. The "They should know because they told people to do it, but she doesn't have to know because she choose to do it" line of thought is bullcrap.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 05, 2007, 06:32:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
In one breath, people will defend the individual for "not knowing" that too much water can kill you, then in the same breath, condem the DJ's for not knowing the exact same thing. The "They should know because they told people to do it, but she doesn't have to know because she choose to do it" line of thought is bullcrap.
I'm not condemning anyone. I'm asking questions about fault here. I don't want to punish the DJs or anyone else. If you get someone else to do something, you're at least partially responsible for what happens next, even if we ignore everything else about this issue. Why do you want to completely release the station from responsibility? None of this would have even happened if not for the station putting on the contest.
We discussed a hypothetical case in class* once where that was an issue. It involved two women at a ski resort. The ski resort was supposed to survey the ski trails every morning and mark off any that had dangerous conditions, but it failed to do so for whatever reason. The women went down a trail with hard, icy snow, and one fell and broke a leg. The other one went to get help, but ran into an old boyfriend and got distracted for a few hours. By the time paramedics were alerted and arrived, the first woman had suffered severe frostbite in addition to her other injuries. The question put to the class was what was the ski resort responsible for in regards to the woman's medical expenses. I got it wrong. I thought it wasn't fair to hold the resort responsible for the frostbite when that wasn't their fault, but her flaky friend's. The professor pointed out that she wouldn't have suffered frostbite if she hadn't had the accident in the first place. If you set things in motion, you have to answer for everything that happens from that point on.
I am not trying to defend or attack anybody. I am trying to look at this from as neutral a point of view as I can muster.
(*I'm not a law student. It was a Business Law class in which we learned about the responsibilities businesses have to the public and to the government. I make no claims of expertise based on it.)
Post by: UncleBob on April 05, 2007, 06:39:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
In one breath, people will defend the individual for "not knowing" that too much water can kill you, then in the same breath, condem the DJ's for not knowing the exact same thing. The "They should know because they told people to do it, but she doesn't have to know because she choose to do it" line of thought is bullcrap.
I'm not condemning anyone. I'm asking questions about fault here. I don't want to punish the DJs or anyone else. If you get someone else to do something, you're at least partially responsible for what happens next, even if we ignore everything else about this issue. Why do you want to completely release the station from responsibility? None of this would have even happened if not for the station putting on the contest.
That's not entierly fair though... I mean, none of this would have happened if this individual's mother hadn't had sex with her father, do we blame them? It wouldn't have happened if Nintendo hadn't made the Wii, do we blame them? It wouldn't have happened if her kids didn't want the Wii so badly, do we blame her kids? It wouldn't have happened had Columbus not "discovered" America, should be blame him?
Perhaps, had "God" not "created" the universe, it wouldn't have happened... Is it his/her fault?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 05, 2007, 07:53:10 AM
Post by: vudu on April 05, 2007, 08:34:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
That's not entierly fair though... I mean, none of this would have happened if this individual's mother hadn't had sex with her father, do we blame them? It wouldn't have happened if Nintendo hadn't made the Wii, do we blame them? It wouldn't have happened if her kids didn't want the Wii so badly, do we blame her kids? It wouldn't have happened had Columbus not "discovered" America, should be blame him?
Perhaps, had "God" not "created" the universe, it wouldn't have happened... Is it his/her fault?
QuoteI already made this argument like two months ago.
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteIf the woman didn't have kids she wouldn't be dead.
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
But like I said, had Wii supply been better, this woman wouldn't be dead.
It's not directly Nintendo's fault, but it's still a fact.
If the woman didn't live in Sacramento she wouldn't be dead.
If the woman had learned Japanese and gone to work for Nintendo five years ago, thus securing herself a Wii she wouldn't be dead.
If the woman's mother was addicted to heroin while pregnant thus giving birth to a mentally handicapped child she wouldn't be dead.
These are all facts.
Post by: wandering on April 05, 2007, 12:50:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
I'm tired of this "inform them of the danger" bullcrap. That's why we end up with stupid warnings that you can't bypass or turn off in video games and warnings that peanut butter may contain nuts.
Oh, so it's not Nintendo's fault that they choose to put unskipable warnings in their games? You're going to blame Nintendo's actions on people who have no control over the company's policies? Why not blame God for creating the universe, instead?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 05, 2007, 12:54:49 PM
Post by: UncleBob on April 05, 2007, 01:19:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
I'm tired of this "inform them of the danger" bullcrap. That's why we end up with stupid warnings that you can't bypass or turn off in video games and warnings that peanut butter may contain nuts.
Oh, so it's not Nintendo's fault that they choose to put unskipable warnings in their games? You're going to blame Nintendo's actions on people who have no control over the company's policies? Why not blame God for creating the universe, instead?
Unfortunatly, it is these people who have control over Nintendo's policies - through their lawsuits (and those of their families). Nintendo has to do what it takes to protect the stability of their company - which includes warning screens that help protect them against stupid lawsuits.
You're right - Nintendo does have a choice - they could not put the warning screen there and hope they don't get sued. Again, that is.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 05, 2007, 01:32:22 PM
BRING BACK CARTRIDGES.
OR GO SOLID STATE.
