Post by: Smash_Brother on January 04, 2007, 08:08:02 AM
It's sad that, in it's unabated attempt at self-destruction, Sega has taken Sonic down with it. From the questionable Sonic Adventures (which I actually enjoyed) all the way to the latest mess, the only glimmer of hope we've seen in between was Sonic Rush on the DS, developed by a company other than Sonic Team.
I find myself with little faith left in Sonic, or more accurately, Sonic Team, which seems absolutely incapable of grinding out anything but garbage anymore.
Is there any reason to hope that SR will be anything but another crapfest or should I just accept Sonic's death and move on?
Post by: Kairon on January 04, 2007, 08:20:59 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on January 04, 2007, 08:24:45 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 04, 2007, 08:25:29 AM
Accept Sonic's death and move on. You're probably the only person for which THIS game is their absolute LAST hope. The rest of us gave up around Shadow the Hedgehog or earlier.
Nothing lasts forever so I say enjoy the classic Sonic games. No matter what at least we'll always still have those.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 04, 2007, 08:27:52 AM
Post by: TrueNerd on January 04, 2007, 08:28:45 AM
I think putting the game on rails is a wise decision. I think that alone should make this Sonic the one that is most true to what the 2D games were. Hopefully they execute properly, a good 3D Sonic game would be nice, especially if it's exclusive to Wii.
Post by: Pale on January 04, 2007, 08:39:27 AM
It may end up being fun, who knows... but I was left frustrated after playing it in September.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 04, 2007, 08:40:15 AM
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHH
Post by: ryancoke on January 04, 2007, 08:46:07 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 04, 2007, 08:56:16 AM
But I agree, if this game ends up just as horrible as the other 3D Sonics then I'm done with Sonic as well. The only way I'd buy another Sonic game is if Nintendo somehow would get the rights to make a Sonic game and have Tokyo EAD make it. Because Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat played more like a Sonic game then anything Sega's released in the last 10 years.
Post by: Kairon on January 04, 2007, 08:59:13 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: JonLeung on January 04, 2007, 09:03:21 AM
*runs out of topic*
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 04, 2007, 09:40:51 AM
Quote
I think they should let the Klonoa team make a sonic game. Klonoa 2 for PS2 was one of the best platform games I ever played.
Wasn't Klonoa a 2D game despite the 3D graphics?
Anyway, I think the issue also has to do with the fact that Sonic is a speed based game. Think about it, to run really fast, you need wide open space to do so or you'll be running into objects all the time. In a 3D game, wide open space can also provide other new problems like scenary. You're basically running around with very little anything around you. You have to balance the scenary without causing problems with the gameplay. I mean, it's probably possible, but would take a lot of time.
Here's an example, let's take Hyrule Field from OOT. That place is large and a bit empty, but is it enough for a Sonic stage? I do believe Sonic travels at 1,000x the speed of Epona so how long will it take him to run from one end to another (BTW, I'm just talking about the large wide open area)? Less than 60 seconds? Not a very thrilling race is it?
Also, while Secret Rings uses 3D polygonal graphics, I don't think on rails is the answer to the problem. For one thing, that's not exactly a "3D" Sonic game. Running with the camera behind you in a straight line could have been done on the Snes/Genesis. Don't you want a large wide open world to explore (this is directed to Sonic fan here cause I don't know what you guys really think)? Don't you want to explore, or are you satisfied just as long as the graphics are 3D and you can run very fast?
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on January 04, 2007, 09:49:43 AM
Sonic died for me the minute I realized I was chasing down a president in Tails's transformer mech. Shadow's foray into solo stardom was just Sega tying marionette strings around the corpse of the franchise, and having it dance around to the tune of whiny angst rock.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 04, 2007, 10:22:37 AM
I think the real solution is just to not make 3D Sonic games anymore. Why do I want to explore vast 3D worlds when the point of the game is to run like a motherf*cker? What they probably could do is design the stages like you would for a racing game only with multiple paths that split off. That more or less is what a 2D Sonic level is. It was always a sprint from left to right BUT you could jump at certain points and get on a different path. So far with Sonic in 3D the level design seems to be either stupid non-Sonic related level or "hold up the whole time". I think the Sonic stages in Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 were a reasonably good idea but they seemed to really only have one path. I should be able to hit a fork in the road and encounter entirely different sections of a level, in every level.
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 04, 2007, 10:34:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
So you want Nintendo EDA to work on Sonic after Mario Galaxy Luigi Dude?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
If Nintendo could get the rights, a huge YES. Nintendo has a perfect record at taking 2d games to 3d, so they are the ONLY company that could finally bring Sonic into 3d. Plus they've shown with Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat they could actually make a 2d Sonic that would match the greatness of the original ones. Something Sega can't do.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 04, 2007, 11:31:47 AM
Post by: Darkheart on January 04, 2007, 12:05:15 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 04, 2007, 12:08:05 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Viewtiful mario on January 04, 2007, 12:22:34 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on January 04, 2007, 02:33:05 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 04, 2007, 02:51:04 PM
All the Sonic games since then have had such horrible reviews that I've never tried them, and I've had a friend who bought STH on 360 return it in a fit of rage.
Post by: SixthAngel on January 04, 2007, 02:57:10 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 04, 2007, 03:00:08 PM
Also, is it true that Yuji Naka left Sonic Team? I've heard that a few times but never confirmed it...
Post by: segagamer12 on January 04, 2007, 03:07:35 PM
I have all the sonic games for all systems and I love everyone of them. i even enjoyed 3d Blast (on Saturn not Genny)
I don't get what people hate about them, you have Sonic, you run like hell, you get to explore and the story is pretty cool. I never got Shadow yet, I asked for it for Christmas last year and got Rush on DS and POP WW instead, RUSH was good for the most part, but not good enoug my GC died that holiday season. At elast Gems came out and revived it for a little while.
Anywyas I just like Sonic, mostly cuz i liked the old games, the comics and the cartoons, he stil maintains his attitude in all the new games, and they match the new cartoons too so Its all good for me. I will still get the 360 one also once I geta 360.
Post by: Arbok on January 04, 2007, 03:23:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Also, is it true that Yuji Naka left Sonic Team? I've heard that a few times but never confirmed it...
Source
He said in March of '06 that he was leaving Sonic Team to start his own studio... the question still remains if that was going to be as part of Sega still or not. Regardless, he did leave the studio earlier this year; however, he still worked on the 360 "Sonic the Hedgehog", didn't direct it though.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 04, 2007, 03:24:39 PM
1. Camera is horrible.
2. Sonic games should involve more playing as...you know...Sonic. When the games focused entirely on the speedy gameplay of Sonic with some mild exploration and puzzle solving, people loved them. The formulaic addition of Knuckle's/Rouge's scavenger hunts and the plodding platforming of Tails/Robotnik basically veered away from the REASON people played Sonic games in the first place.
I'm not sure why Sonic Heroes was poorly received, only that it was almost universally hated. I suspect that spreading the development resources thin across three consoles hindered the game (it always does).
Post by: Crimm on January 04, 2007, 03:50:22 PM
Sonic Team needs to fire everyone even remotely involved in their musical choices... into the Sun. I could post a lyrical excerpt from A Ghost's Pumpkin Soup (Sonic Adventure 2: "Pumpkin Hill Zone"), but I couldn't bring myself to even look at the lyrics again. Just take my word for it when I say you don't want to know anything about "The fighting freak Knuckles" and that you are most certainly not "ready!"
Anyway, here is an example of the load times in Sonic The Hedgehog (360). As you can see, they're pretty unbearable. They're also totally inexcusable, I mean 30 seconds for one line of dialog? They're clearly reloading the entire level per question, TWICE. Apparently no one at Sonic Team has heard of scripted events.
Post by: Darc Requiem on January 04, 2007, 04:10:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The real issues with the Sonic games are:
1. Camera is horrible.
2. Sonic games should involve more playing as...you know...Sonic. When the games focused entirely on the speedy gameplay of Sonic with some mild exploration and puzzle solving, people loved them. The formulaic addition of Knuckle's/Rouge's scavenger hunts and the plodding platforming of Tails/Robotnik basically veered away from the REASON people played Sonic games in the first place.
I'm not sure why Sonic Heroes was poorly received, only that it was almost universally hated. I suspect that spreading the development resources thin across three consoles hindered the game (it always does).
Actually Sonic Heroes was developed as a Gamecube exclusive initially and then it was changed to multiplatform. Thats why the Gamecube looks and runs the best. The PS2 version looked and ran horribly.
Post by: capamerica on January 04, 2007, 04:34:19 PM
I've been holding on to hope that one day we might see the rebirth of Sonic but after Sonic Battle, Sonic Heroes, Shadow, Sonic Riders, Sonic Next Gen, Sonic 15th bday, and Sonic Rivals I have no faith left. There was a little glimmer of hope when Sonic Rush came out but that was stomped on when Sonic Next Gen and Sonic Rivals came out.
When I saw the trailer for Sonic Next Gen I was extremely happy it looked like Sonic Team was going back to the Sonic Adventure format. Sonic Next gen looked like it could have been Sonic Adventure 3. But when the demo showed up on XboxLive I was in for a rude awaking the game played worst then Sonic DX. But I said to myself "hey its just a demo, they'll fix it" but sadly they didn't infact the actual game itself was far worst. And don't even get me started on Sonic Rivals, that game sucked, its like Sonic R on rails. I don't hold any hope that Secret Rings will be good.
Unless Sonic Team can pull a miracle out of Secret Rings I will not be buying any more Sonic games or anything made by Sonic Team.
Post by: Requiem on January 04, 2007, 04:47:05 PM
Still, Sonic should be made in 2D. Just like jungle beat....
Post by: Artimus on January 04, 2007, 05:09:40 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 04, 2007, 06:07:34 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 04, 2007, 06:20:43 PM
I loved Sonic adventure on the Dreamcast. It was the first game I bought for the console and I would play till the wee hours of the morning, trying to get all the animals for my Chaos (which is a whole another story to tell), completing the story and playing as all the characters.
Sonic adventure 2 was fun. The story was interesting, and it had some crazy ass levels, but it was starting to go downhill for me. After all, its been nothing but crapfest.
Like SB, SR is my last hope for the Sonic franchise. After that, I am DONE with the series.
Post by: King of Twitch on January 04, 2007, 06:38:48 PM
Post by: Dasmos on January 04, 2007, 09:06:57 PM
Post by: chrisbg99 on January 04, 2007, 09:20:23 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 04, 2007, 10:19:09 PM
VC doesn't count.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Caliban on January 05, 2007, 01:30:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
All Sonic games suck. The original are obnoxious games that substitute speed for level design. Horrid.
Sonic Rush(DS) is great.
Post by: Nick DiMola on January 05, 2007, 02:20:37 AM
Sega has been trying so damn hard to adapt Sonic to 3D when it just isn't a 3D game. Sonic Adventure wasn't too bad but it sure as hell wasn't a Mario 64. The old Sonic games were great competition for Mario back in the day. Each series was unique and a ton of fun to play. Once the 3D switch happened, Mario left Sonic in the dust, and Sonic was no longer any fun.
If Sega were to just release a giant 2D super adventure for Sonic it would be a smash hit. All I would have to hear is 2D Sonic and I wouldn't even think twice about missing that purchase and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Post by: JonLeung on January 05, 2007, 02:36:44 AM
Now, Super Mario 64 is a great game, really it is, but when it came out I was mourning the loss of what I liked about Mario games. Where are the bricks and blocks? Why are there so few Goombas? Why can't I kick ricocheting Koopa shells around? Where's the Fire Flower? Why am I spending more time punching than stomping? Where are the Koopalings? Where's Yoshi (I mean other than the roof) and Luigi and alternating two-player? Now instead of dealing with obstacles as they come and running and jumping to the end goal before the time is up, I'm now looking for Stars. There is nothing wrong with the new formula, and I do like the game, but it sure is a departure from any previous Mario game.
Then you look at Sonic. You're still running to the goal, at least when you're playing as Sonic. So they kept that part of it. When you're playing as other characters like Knuckles in Adventure 2 and have to slow down to look for stuff, why is that a bad change when Mario is now also looking for stuff? I don't get it. Is Sonic's transition to 3D so much more different than Mario's transition into 3D? Do non-Sonic characters really suck so much (other than Big the Cat)?
Perhaps since everyone felt Super Mario 64 was a great game that they felt it was a good transition (whatever was missing didn't matter) that they felt every good franchise should be able to make it in 3D, that when Sonic Adventure came out there were expectations that weren't quite met and all of the sudden it's not as good a game. Could that be it?
I could be missing something, admittedly. I welcome you to prove me wrong, because I'm enjoying the Sonic 3D games and apparently I'm told that I shouldn't.
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 05, 2007, 02:52:45 AM
Quote
Now, Super Mario 64 is a great game, really it is, but when it came out I was mourning the loss of what I liked about Mario games. Where are the bricks and blocks? Why are there so few Goombas? Why can't I kick ricocheting Koopa shells around? Where's the Fire Flower? Why am I spending more time punching than stomping? Where are the Koopalings? Where's Yoshi (I mean other than the roof) and Luigi and alternating two-player? Now instead of dealing with obstacles as they come and running and jumping to the end goal before the time is up, I'm now looking for Stars. There is nothing wrong with the new formula, and I do like the game, but it sure is a departure from any previous Mario game.
You must hate Yoshi's Island and Mario 2 then. Yes, I'm well aware that Mario 2 isn't really a Mario game, but it was still a very good game. If Mario games should always remain the same, then Mario should be trying to save Pauline and stop Donkey Kong.
Mario 64's design was brilliant. The game was FUN. That is what it had in common with all the Mario games. While I kind of agree that the world of Mario 64 was too different, I'm going to say that if it was just like all the other Mario games before it, people wil critisize it for being uncreative. If Mario didn't get new abilities in 3D, I'm sure people would be disappointed. Part of the fun is how much you can do with Mario without having to gain a power up.
Post by: couchmonkey on January 05, 2007, 03:08:35 AM
I liked Sonic Adventure 2, but I haven't played the rest. I think the big complaint is that the series does have significant flaws, but Sega never does anything about them. In all fairness to Sega, the games sell quite well anyway, so why fix it? Disappointingly, Sonic Rush seems to be the biggest sales failure the series has had lately.
Personally, I don't think there has to be a "last chance" for Sonic, someone could always come back and fix it one day in the future, like Tomb Raider. Sonic Ring Toss is just the latest chance to turn the series around.
Edit: On Mario's transition to 3D, it's true that the games didn't retain much of the 2D game design, but they maintained a level of quality and fun that 3D Sonic is lacking. Then again, it could be fair to say that Sonic has always been lacking compared to Mario, I've never played the 2D games.
Post by: JonLeung on January 05, 2007, 03:16:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Terranigma FreakQuote
Now, Super Mario 64 is a great game, really it is, but when it came out I was mourning the loss of what I liked about Mario games. Where are the bricks and blocks? Why are there so few Goombas? Why can't I kick ricocheting Koopa shells around? Where's the Fire Flower? Why am I spending more time punching than stomping? Where are the Koopalings? Where's Yoshi (I mean other than the roof) and Luigi and alternating two-player? Now instead of dealing with obstacles as they come and running and jumping to the end goal before the time is up, I'm now looking for Stars. There is nothing wrong with the new formula, and I do like the game, but it sure is a departure from any previous Mario game.
You must hate Yoshi's Island and Mario 2 then. Yes, I'm well aware that Mario 2 isn't really a Mario game, but it was still a very good game. If Mario games should always remain the same, then Mario should be trying to save Pauline and stop Donkey Kong.
Mario 64's design was brilliant. The game was FUN. That is what it had in common with all the Mario games. While I kind of agree that the world of Mario 64 was too different, I'm going to say that if it was just like all the other Mario games before it, people wil critisize it for being uncreative. If Mario didn't get new abilities in 3D, I'm sure people would be disappointed. Part of the fun is how much you can do with Mario without having to gain a power up.
I don't hate Bros. 2 or World 2, and if I did, it wouldn't be for the same reasons (I mean, geez, you quoted the part where I even mentioned twice that I do like 64). Okay, the two games you mentioned had some differences from other Mario games too but they were still 2D platformers. And I do agree that some gameplay changes had to be made for 3D.
I guess I ranted too much to not make my point clear - Mario had significant changes in gameplay besides being in 3D when he made the dimensional jump. Sonic had some changes too but apparently fans think they're so much different and somehow made worse. My point is, were their transitions really that different?
Post by: Mario on January 05, 2007, 03:16:39 AM
Quote
I was reading the Nintendo Power retrospective on the series and I was (slightly) surprised to learn that NOBODY of consequence who worked on Sonic the Hedgehog works on the series any more. Only one of those people even works for Sega anymore.
Wow, I never knew that. So the Sonic series really is completely dead, oh well, those classics will live on forever! I have secretly been hoping one day a Sonic game would come out as good as the old ones, but it looks like Sega are actually trying their hardest with these new crappy ones, and they just can't do it. Anyone know where the composers of the old Sonic tunes are now? That was probably the best part of the old Sonic experience and one that is lacking hugely now.
Post by: JonLeung on January 05, 2007, 03:33:57 AM
"Live and learn!"
"Like a laser beam, my eye's on you!"
"Team Chaotix!"
Then again I always loved Chemical Plant's stage music from Sonic The Hedgehog 2. Or it was always stuck in my head. One of the two. Great, now it's in my head again.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 05, 2007, 04:48:37 AM
I narrow it down to the basic core of the game. The most important thing about Mario is jumping. Super Mario 64 has tons of that. The scavenger hunt stuff requires a lot of jumping. Sonic is about speed. The Knuckles scavenger hunt crap doesn't have that element. Neither does the mech stuff. What makes Sonic Sonic is gone in those stages.
Though I think quality has a lot to do with it as well. Super Mario 64 really was a mind-blowing game when it was released. Sonic Adventure not so much though was still popular and I would consider it a good game. The problem is Sonic has dropped like a rock since then so there's general backlash against Sonic in 3D in general because all but one of the 3D games suck (though Sonic Adventure 2 has like three good levels at least). Honestly Mario would probably get the same flack if his track record was that poor as well but it isn't so he's still a successful transition to 3D. Though if Galaxy is as "bad" as Sunshine there will probably be backlash for Mario too.
One thing that is really annoying is that Sonic kind of DID make a successful transition to 3D. Sonic Adventure was pretty popular. Then they added those stupid supporting character levels and everyone complained and instead of going back to the Sonic Adventure way of doing things they tinkered more and f*cked everything up. Why didn't they just make Sonic Adventure 3 with only Sonic levels?
Post by: couchmonkey on January 05, 2007, 05:07:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Wow, I never knew that. So the Sonic series really is completely dead, oh well, those classics will live on forever! I have secretly been hoping one day a Sonic game would come out as good as the old ones, but it looks like Sega are actually trying their hardest with these new crappy ones, and they just can't do it. Anyone know where the composers of the old Sonic tunes are now? That was probably the best part of the old Sonic experience and one that is lacking hugely now.
I don't remember the details, but again from Nintendo Power, apparently Sega hired a somewhat well-known pop artist to work on the soundtrack for Sonic the Hedgehog (not sure if he worked on any of the later games or not). They wanted the game to feel futuristic and "cool" compared to Mario. To that end, the art design was based on the look of 3D computer graphics and Sonic had "attitude".
It was a pretty good write-up. NP has a couple of good interviews and features each month, but the rest is so-so.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 05, 2007, 05:24:32 AM
RUN THRU MIDDLE EARF AT SONIC SPEEDS!
Post by: JonLeung on January 05, 2007, 06:27:04 AM
Wait...I probably mean "Mordorbius".
Oh, wait, I am confusing myself. It's only the early games that take place on Mobius, right? Then in the 3D games it's Earth?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 05, 2007, 06:43:14 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 05, 2007, 07:03:44 AM
Quote
I guess I ranted too much to not make my point clear - Mario had significant changes in gameplay besides being in 3D when he made the dimensional jump. Sonic had some changes too but apparently fans think they're so much different and somehow made worse. My point is, were their transitions really that different?
I think you're asking the wrong question. Their transition is not different in anyway, but their core gameplay difference that made one successful while the other not so successful. In a 3D world, Mario is able to explore just like he always did in the 2D games. Now, the world is so full of life and secrets that you just can't help but feel amazed. I mean, I remember I was pissed off in the lava stage in Mario 64 and I wanted to kill Mario for fun. I kept jumping into the lava to burn his ass. While I was enjoying torturing Mario, I accidently sent him into the volcano. I thought my Mario tourturing fun had ended, only to find out I discovered a completely new area I've never seen before. I mean, 3D really mad it more mind blowing. Remember falling through the background in Mario 3 to get the power up (what is was escapes me right now)? That actually made sense so to speak. The game was flat and 2D, how could you ever think about slipping into the backgrounds. With the volcano, it was a mountain with a hole in it. It makes sense that there actually is something in there. I have only my stupidity to blame for not thinking about it earlier. With Mario 3, it just makes no sense at all. That is feeling of adventure, platforming and exploration in a Mario game.
Now we have Sonic who runs fast. Some of you want exploration, so of you want to just run really fast. It's almost like its fans can't decide on what they want. In a full 3D world, Sonic must be fast, and the speed plus 3D camera can cause problems, and I mean MUCH bigger problems than Mario 64. I mean, I'm sure you guys probably found yourself misjudging jumps in Mario 64 more often than in the 2D ones, right? Now imagine a character moving at 10 times the speed. If the world is vast an wide open, what is there for Sonic to do other than run really fast? You can explore, but exploration and speed doesn't mix very well. I mean, you honestly don't think that explorers in real life just run around really fun in a jungle to explore, or drive a F1 racer (to simulate the idea of speed and exploration) into a pyramid? Even with Sonic Adventure, I don't feel like there's much to explore. It still retains it's 2D roots mixing it with 3D in a bad way. While it's not totally on-rail, it also felt like you're just running on one set path. The game feels like it doesn't know what to do with it being in 3D (yet it duplicates the greatest flaw in Mario 64). If Sonic games were all like Secret Rings, is there a point in making Sonic 3D at all? Outside of polygons, Secret Rings can easily be done on Snes with mode 7 effects.
That's how I feel anyway, but his is coming from someone who's not a big Sonic fan and has only play Sonic Adventure on the DC for an hour or so.
Post by: Ceric on January 05, 2007, 07:05:00 AM
I'm going to draw my line in the sand. I love Mario Sunshine and have No Real Love for Mario 64. 64DS is alright though.
Also while I'm making enemies NSMB is the red-headed step child to Super Mario Bros 3.
I enjoyed the music and Sonic Adventure in general. I'm looking forward to Onion ring and have no interest in any Sonic game that has the word "exploration" even loosely tied to it. All the "exploring" I want to do is as I'm zipping past the pretty backgrounds.
Post by: Smoke39 on January 05, 2007, 08:43:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Terranigma Freak
You can explore, but exploration and speed doesn't mix very well.
You're right. The 2D Sonic games had the same problem. It's an inherently broken franchise.
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 05, 2007, 08:51:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39Quote
Originally posted by: Terranigma Freak
You can explore, but exploration and speed doesn't mix very well.
You're right. The 2D Sonic games had the same problem. It's an inherently broken franchise.
Ah, I thought I was the only one who felt that way. Even in 2D, I didn't really feel like exploring the levels, or that exploring felt like a pain in the ass in Sonic games.
Also, I I would laugh my ass off if Sonic made it into SSBB with a 3D Sonic adventure mode that rocked. Then all Sonic fans would be clamoring more Sonic gameplay like that 1 level in SSBB.
Post by: segagamer12 on January 05, 2007, 12:38:38 PM
I wont get all lovey dovie defending sega for no reaons here but I will say what i like about Sonic Adventure out weighs what i disliek so I still like the series. Personalyl I LOVE sonic, more than mario, always have always will. SO for me if SOnic is in it its a game worth trying out. I hate the spinn ofss just liek I hate Mario spin offs, for me Mario, and Sonic, had a special quality about them story wise and I hate it when they toss that out the window and go for real worl feel. I like Mrio Kart to some degree but hate the premise for the most part.
the NES Mario and Mario World games had a certain degree of magic that mostly all of the latter games have been lacking as far as I am concerned, they veered too much from the originals to be true to what I liked about them. NSMB fixed a lot of that and had enough nastalgia to make it fun and excitng but still retro and new at the same time.
Sonic has always maintained true to its roots story wise, so for me that is pretty improtant, the charcaters, the motives, everything remians pretty well intact. Sonic Adventure isnt on the same level of fun as SOnci 1 or 2, 2 being my favorite, but it was still fun.
I agree with jon here with N64 As I missed a lot of the elements that made Mario games Mario game, and a huge aprt of why I HATED sunshine But I still had fun playing Mario 64 so the stuff thatw as misisng got forgotten soon enough.
With Sonic 3d I never understood the complaints either, you still run around as fast as ever, there is no slow down. I dont get it they Genesisi sonics were far slower paced then the 3D ones so that argument does not fly with me.
HOWEVER i can understand that people have a certain fondness for things that they dont liek to see them changed. ANd I agree I hated all the non sonic levels except Tails and Knuckles, as they were two of my favrotie charcaters and knuckles even got to star in two of his very own games whihc I also liked.
I can see the slow down complain as far as 3d blast goes because that game (on genesis) sucked, but it made up for its suckiness on Saturn.
DC Sonic was cool and fun and had all the same attitude, music, feel, speed and everything that made sonic cool. My biggest complains were the voice actinng and the choppyness and bad camera movements, but they were somehwat improved over mario 64 crappy camera movements so I didnt complain too much.
I may be alone in the world but i havent noticed a real lack in quality over the old games, I had fun playing every one I have played, but I am the kid of ghamer who doesnt change what i play that often, I will always pick up a Sonic game over a Crash whatsits name or Mario over racthet and doohicky.
But I can see the people who dont like it view piont but I dont get how they go so far as to say its total crap and not worht playing.
Post by: IceCold on January 05, 2007, 05:59:13 PM
Post by: Artimus on January 05, 2007, 07:24:48 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 05, 2007, 08:02:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Though if Galaxy is as "bad" as Sunshine there will probably be backlash for Mario too.
Gosh I sure hope it is as "bad" as Super Mario Sunshine because I love that game!
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 06, 2007, 02:53:51 AM
Quote
They actually thought there was more to the games than going fast. And as such the 3D games don't really have anything to do with the 2D games.
You know, when I first played Sonic Adventure on the DC, I died during the "loop" because I didn't hold the control stick thinking it'll automatically happen. The game felt it like played itself sometimes and that I didn't have to do anything.
Post by: segagamer12 on January 06, 2007, 05:12:00 AM
three good charcters.
Post by: Nick DiMola on January 06, 2007, 07:05:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
I think people tend to forget that Sonic Adventure isn't an action game it's an ADVENTURE game and was designed that way...
Right there is the exact problem. Every good Sonic game ever made was a fast paced, non-stop action game with some very light exploration (i.e. - Alternate Routes and Hidden Big Rings). Sonic Adventure was by no means terrible. For the most part it was a decent Sonic 3D transition but it wasn't nearly as ground-breaking as the originals. Since then Sonic in 3D has always been awkward. I wish they would just stick to 2D because that's where it is done right. It's like Castlevania, 3D is ok but 2D is where the series really shines (Though I guess both truly have potential to be amazing 3D games if they were done right, but that point is moot).
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 06, 2007, 08:21:54 AM
The SONIC levels of the SA games were generally very good. If they would just make an entire game of THOSE, I have a feeling the game itself would be excellent.
Post by: segagamer12 on January 06, 2007, 08:47:53 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 06, 2007, 08:54:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The SONIC levels of the SA games were generally very good. If they would just make an entire game of THOSE, I have a feeling the game itself would be excellent.
Guess what? They managed to even butcher those in Sonic 360!
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 06, 2007, 08:55:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Guess what? They managed to even butcher those in Sonic 360!
Point made.
But it's true that a different dev house is making SR, right?
Post by: segagamer12 on January 06, 2007, 08:58:45 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 06, 2007, 09:00:24 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 06, 2007, 11:40:17 AM
Post by: Mario on January 06, 2007, 12:46:54 PM
Post by: capamerica on January 06, 2007, 02:11:49 PM
I own almost all the Sonic games that have been released, including Sonic DX, Sonic Riders and Sonic Heroes but after playing Sonic Next Gen for 3 hours I decided to return it the next day. I took the store credit for it and bought Tomb Raider for the GameCube
Post by: Caterkiller on January 07, 2007, 04:41:12 AM
All we need is Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails on the roster. Big wide roads to run on, so we don't die every second, a decent camera, no bugs, the ability to build momentum as we run so a loop doesn't feel so fixed, and different commands on different buttons. With all that you can add in stages that are fast and allow you to perform tricks off of everything, so it feels like your constantly moving and you have one grade A Sonic game.
This is truely the final straw for me, I thought shadow was, but im giving Sonic one more chance. If Secret of the Rings doesn't cut the mustard, I will just pretend Sonic doesn't exist, and I will no longer be known as Caterkiller(its the name of one of Sonic's earliest robot enemies).
I wan't Nintendo to make a 3D Sonic! I really really really do!
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 07, 2007, 01:10:48 PM
I was a Sega kid so I absolutely loved Sonic but I've watched him slowly sink into despair.
I swear, it would be like watching Mario games gradually get worse and worse until each game consisted a bad anime storyline with levels where you play as Peach for treasure hunting and as Toad in some kind of mech, all the while wishing you could be playing as Mario.
It's strange that I'm GLAD SR is being developed by a different dev house...
Post by: IceCold on January 07, 2007, 01:46:54 PM
QuoteWhy do I keep hearing this? It's true that Sonic Rush was developed by Dimps, but Secret Rings is definitely from the Sonic Team..
It's strange that I'm GLAD SR is being developed by a different dev house...
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 07, 2007, 02:27:44 PM
It was said earlier in this thread that it was made by a different dev house, or so I thought...
Post by: Crimm on January 07, 2007, 02:47:59 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 07, 2007, 02:57:55 PM
Post by: Crimm on January 07, 2007, 03:08:08 PM
Apparently, Sonic Team was spun-off as a second party but after a bunch of the members left Sega re-integrated it and merged it with the AM9 team.
Post by: segagamer12 on January 07, 2007, 03:58:56 PM
Post by: Crimm on January 07, 2007, 04:39:41 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 07, 2007, 06:26:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
It's the same people that made Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog (X-360), and I think Sonic Heroes.
Ouch........
Never mind, then. Let us have a moment of silence for the passing of our dear blue hedgehog...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 07, 2007, 06:35:31 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 07, 2007, 06:50:37 PM
Post by: denjet78 on January 07, 2007, 07:22:15 PM
1. Sega was showing Nintendo almost zero support at the time while giving Sony and MS huge exclusives left and right. I believed it was only fair that Nintendo received some exclusive support as well. And Super Monkey Ball didn't count, which is what, and ONLY what, I was rebutted with in regards to Nintendo exclusive Sega games. Right.
2. Multiplatform games almost always suck and while they were trying to take the franchise multi most likely they would try and make it "hip" and "cool" in order to sell it to Sony and MS fans and basically rape the franchise to death in the process.
The first one was really just my opinion but come on, who can't see that Sonic and Nintendo are a prefect fit. Everyone basically flamed me and told me how Sonic was too big for one console. Which of course explains why Sega released Sonic on every console even before they went 3rd party... morons. As for my second point, I knew it was going to happen. I just don't know why no one else could see it. Sonic would have never survived on the PS2 or XBox without being "upgraded". Anyway, the people on that forum got what they wanted. I just hope they're happy with how the games have turned out since then. I guess the only real reply I could have for them now is be careful what you wish for.
Post by: IceCold on January 07, 2007, 07:51:39 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 08, 2007, 01:46:15 AM
I observed time and again that platform loyalty greatly helps a franchise not only because it isn't being spread across three platforms but because customers tend to be more loyal to the character if he/she is "faithful" to a single platform.
And Nintendo IS the perfect fit. Sega and Nintendo are both the last of the old platform makers. They forged this market through their competition with each other. I would have much rather seen them team up than see Nintendo prosper while Sega flounders.
One of the reasons I'd hope that SR would be good (and sells good) is that it might finally convince Sega to knock off this multiplatform BS.
Post by: Mario on January 08, 2007, 01:56:40 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 08, 2007, 02:04:09 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 08, 2007, 02:42:36 AM
Quote
where you play as Peach for treasure hunting
I'll have you know that Super Princess Peach rocked!!!!
Quote
1. Sega was showing Nintendo almost zero support at the time while giving Sony and MS huge exclusives left and right. I believed it was only fair that Nintendo received some exclusive support as well. And Super Monkey Ball didn't count, which is what, and ONLY what, I was rebutted with in regards to Nintendo exclusive Sega games. Right.
I see Sega and Nintendo as enemies to the bitter end. They were heated rivals and neither would submit to the other. I think that when Sega became third party, they didn't want to submit to their most hated rival. What support did the GC get? Don't forget, Sega was the first third party to start dropping support for the GC. It's their way of getting back at Nintendo even though they're third party.
Look at the Wii support right now. Looks just like GC all over again and I'll bet you the Wii will get the least amount of support from Sega this gen as well. I'm willing to bet that Sega will once again come out and say they'll drop most of their support for the Wii in a year or so.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 08, 2007, 03:02:53 AM
Besides, like Ice said, Sega franchises ALWAYS sold best on GC and typically went to any other console only to die.
Post by: IceCold on January 08, 2007, 06:21:18 AM
Maybe I'm too optimistic though; they might mess even these games up if they try. However, I still have a bit of hope; Panzer Dragoon Orta got great reviews across the board, and F-Zero GX was a success from Amusement Vision.
I still think the NiGHTS rumour will come true - there's just so much evidence for it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 08, 2007, 07:27:32 AM
Putting it on the Xbox was the dumbest idea and someone at Sega SHOULD be shot for it...
Post by: couchmonkey on January 08, 2007, 07:30:17 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 08, 2007, 07:44:07 AM
It became clear that they had absolutely no clue where their market was and I'm pretty sure most of it was on the GC because Sonic found his first home there.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 08, 2007, 09:27:29 AM
That drove me nuts too. It's like Sega was the only one stupid enough to actually believe Microsoft when they described the Xbox as a "hardcore gamer's machine". Even MS doesn't believe that. When MS says "hardcore gamer" they mean "someone who spends a lot of money on games" not "someone with a very passionate interest in games". Sega games are targetted at the original definition, not Microsoft's Newspeak definition.
To me the cut off point was when Sammy bought them. At that point they became like Atari, just a brand name that used to belong to a videogame superpower. Note that the really good Sega games from their third party era came out before the Sammy merger.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 08, 2007, 10:52:43 AM
I wonder if Sega would consider selling them...to Nintendo.
Post by: Arbok on January 08, 2007, 11:37:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
So Sonic Team is a 2nd party now? Hmm...
I wonder if Sega would consider selling them...to Nintendo.
Considering their games of late, would it really be worth it to buy the team sans their franchises?
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 08, 2007, 11:48:30 AM
Post by: Crimm on January 08, 2007, 12:33:37 PM
Secret of the Rings is approaching 2 years in the cycle.
Post by: Mario on January 08, 2007, 12:37:14 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 08, 2007, 01:28:38 PM
I think after about 126 beatings Sonic Team would get something right, or eventually die from head trauma.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 08, 2007, 01:33:28 PM
Get Miyamoto in there to crack the whip and see to it that the blue devil who once stood as his own baby's arch nemesis is restored to his former glory.
It sounds impossible, but remember that Disney just "merged" with Pixar because Disney recognized that they sucked so badly that they needed Pixar to save them from their death spiral.
Maybe Sega and Sonic Team will come to the same realization...
On that note, someone needs to make a one frame comic with Sonic standing at Mario's door, shabby and forlorn, Mario would be at the door hugging Sonic with Luigi standing in the hallway behind him looking on, and Mario would be patting Sonic on the back, saying, "There, there. You can stay with us until you get back on your feet."
Post by: denjet78 on January 08, 2007, 02:37:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
A more likely reason for that is that they just suck and it takes them longer than normal devs to do basic things.
Sonic Team! The new Rare!
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Actually if Nintendo bought Sonic Team it would be great, because you know why. When Miyamoto comes to check on the progress of their games, he'd be so angry with how bad the games are he'd flip the tea table over, then he'd pick up the tea table and beat every member of Sonic Team with it and tell them to start over.
I think after about 126 beatings Sonic Team would get something right, or eventually die from head trauma.
If Nintendo ever bought Sonic Team, or any other developer for that matter, they'd probably rip them apart and completely restructure them from the ground up. Outside of when Rare was still a second party Nintendo was having serious issues with working with external development groups. Almost none of their second party agreements really came to any kind of fruition. Had they owned Rare outright they'd probably still be a worthwhile developer to this day. Nintendo would have taken them to task long before they became the mediocre shell that they are now.
I doubt we're ever going to see another second party. It's going to be either buy them outright, which Nintendo absolutely hates to do, or simply build more internal development groups. Retro was the first sign of that. As soon as they're sure that they can handle making games without having to be coddled all the way through development, most likely they'll start up another high profile group. Or maybe they'll actually focus on Brownie Brown or NST for a change. I'd love to see Brownie Brown jump into the console space. As much trouble as Intelligent Systems is having with that leap though, Brownie Brown is probably on the back burner. And where the hell has HAL been? Isn't there supposed to be a Kirby platformer coming out for some home system before the next millennium?
Point being, Nintendo doesn't need another looser development group on their hands that they'll probably have to rebuild from the ground up. They kind of have their hands full with their own internal groups as it is. If it was going to happen it would have happened before Sega merged with Sammy. As of now, the chances of Nintendo and Sega ever getting together is basically zero. Sonic probably won't even show up in SSBB... but they'll let Snake in? Something is seriously wrong with this picture.
Post by: Arbok on January 08, 2007, 02:51:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
I think after about 126 beatings Sonic Team would get something right, or eventually die from head trauma.
Win, win.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Get Miyamoto in there to crack the whip and see to it that the blue devil who once stood as his own baby's arch nemesis is restored to his former glory.
It sounds impossible, but remember that Disney just "merged" with Pixar because Disney recognized that they sucked so badly that they needed Pixar to save them from their death spiral.
It is impossible, as there is no way that Sega, or Sammy now, would let the Sonic franchise go. I'm sure that they would have "Sonic Team" change their name too if they were ever sold off. Let's not forget that, sadly, Shadow sold fairly well, especially for a spin off title, so they aren't exactly in a position where they would want to get rid of him either, regardless of the quality of his recent titles.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
On that note, someone needs to make a one frame comic with Sonic standing at Mario's door, shabby and forlorn, Mario would be at the door hugging Sonic with Luigi standing in the hallway behind him looking on, and Mario would be patting Sonic on the back, saying, "There, there. You can stay with us until you get back on your feet."
I don't even think Nintendo would even be interested, really. I mean, since becoming second party, Rare's games have historically sold better then Sega's offerings, yet Nintendo was not willing to spend the money to acquire them and then "whip em into shape"... so I highly doubt they will go looking toward Sega to acquire Sonic Team, especially since their asking price will be inflated, regardless of current talent, due to their past accomplishments.
EDIT: Damn it... after reading denjet78's post, it seems I was way too slow in composing mine...
Post by: denjet78 on January 08, 2007, 03:00:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
EDIT: Damn it... after reading denjet78's post, it seems I was way too slow in composing mine...
Don't feel bad. I'm just compulsive. :p
Post by: Crimm on January 08, 2007, 03:06:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
A more likely reason for that is that they just suck and it takes them longer than normal devs to do basic things.
It takes a lot of effort to make a camera engine that redefines the term "broken."
Post by: IceCold on January 08, 2007, 07:44:38 PM
Post by: BlkPaladin on January 08, 2007, 09:09:24 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 09, 2007, 04:13:09 AM
I don't know about that. At least Rare games usually have fairly tight controls and are pretty bug-free. With Sonic Team games you never know what the controls are going to do and you'll randomly walk through walls sometimes.
The image of Miyamoto going ape-sh!t on Sonic Team is pretty funny. I'll bet when he upends the tea table at EAD the game is still actually probably really great, but he demands more. Imagine what he's like when shown any outright crap game. Having the bomb guy not sell bombs to a kid in Wind Waker is a nice touch but without it the game isn't ruined or anything. But clipping and a wacky camera that never shows you what you want and illogical controls and poor game design? He would flip.
Post by: Ceric on January 09, 2007, 05:17:14 AM
Miyamoto the Man is not forever.
I know it's hard to believe but I think its time that Nintendo needs to be seriously considering trying to groom his successor. It will take many years to find the proper person and many more to train them in the art of Miyamotoism. Also in the meantime figuring out what they will do when he is gone.
It might seem like a while but he is probably in a situation, if he played his cards right, where he could pretty much retire anytime he deemed appropriate.
So where is my Tea-Table flipping training camp... Recruit Ceric would love to check in.
Post by: denjet78 on January 09, 2007, 07:14:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I think you guys are hitting on a core issue and not even knowing it.
Miyamoto the Man is not forever.
I know it's hard to believe but I think its time that Nintendo needs to be seriously considering trying to groom his successor. It will take many years to find the proper person and many more to train them in the art of Miyamotoism. Also in the meantime figuring out what they will do when he is gone.
It might seem like a while but he is probably in a situation, if he played his cards right, where he could pretty much retire anytime he deemed appropriate.
So where is my Tea-Table flipping training camp... Recruit Ceric would love to check in.
Believe it or not that's nothing that they haven't already been doing. I think one of the main reasons to have Miyamoto moved up the latter where he wasn't just focusing on one game any more was in part to try and get his Miyamoto-ness into contact with as many Nintendo development teams as they could possibly do. Years focusing on one group just wasn't working, especially when it was primarily EAD, and since then we've all heard the stories of his involvement from NST, Retro, and even SK. It would have been near impossible for Miyamoto to inject himself into so many other projects if he was still the end-all be-all for the next Zelda or Mario.
Zelda seems to be in great hands anyway, and has has been since MM. It looks like they might have finally gotten Metroid and Retro squared away, but I'd really hold my breath on that one until Retro has had the chance to try their hand at something new. Donky Kong seems to have been on a fun for all bender as of late, we're just still missing a new platformer is all. And as for Mario, well... there's always Galaxy. I don't know how much involvement Miyamoto had with Sunshine but to me, the fun just wasn't there. I could tell from the first few screens shots too. There was just something "not Mario" about it. The vids and screens from Galaxy though? I CAN'T WAIT!
As for their other supporting teams, well that's basically what they've always been: supporting teams. Hopefully though they'll be able to get some Miyamoto rubbed off on them and we'll see a few more break-out hits. And not just on the DS either.
In the mean time they'll probably continue farming out some franchises to other developers. I can see AV working on the next F-Zero again. Namco's in a really good place with Nintendo as well, even with the whole SC3 being exclusive to PS2 thing. As for Capcom? Aw HELL NO! They screwed themselves over.
So Nintendo's Miyamoto-ing their internal groups and they're even reaching out to work with other external developers on a game-by-game basis. I think that's the best that they're ever going to be able to do. Second party agreements almost never work out in the end and you really can't trust 3rd parties unless you're directly financing the game... in one way or another *cough*. I doubt that we really have too much to worry about but it is true that the first 5 years after Miyamoto retires will make or break them.
...
I talk a lot, don't I.
Oh! And I haven't really seen much on SR but you've got to have hope. I mean, it is Wii exclusive after all. They might actually get it right! Well, part of it at least. If Nintendo sent over a few developers to work with them though...
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 09, 2007, 07:31:39 AM
Quote
Considering that Sony was the one who killed Sega, I don't see why they'd hate Nintendo over Sony. At the time the DC was suffering the most, it was the PS2 that it was trying to compete with, not any Nintendo hardware. Also, Nintendo hadn't competed with the Saturn. That, again, was Sony with their PS1.
Sega has been badly weakend during the 16 bits wars. Around the time DKC came out for the SNES, Sega was roughly 300 million in the red. My numbers could be off, but you can go check a book called "The Ultimate History of Video Games" for the full story. Despite their popularity in America, Sega wasn't doing as well as you think. If Sega weren't in such bad shape, they wouldn't be finished off by Sony so easily. They barely put up much of a fight against the PS/PS2.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 09, 2007, 08:08:28 AM
You haven't played Kameo or Perfect Dark Zero, have you Ian?
Post by: Crimm on January 09, 2007, 08:14:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I think you guys are hitting on a core issue and not even knowing it.
Miyamoto the Man is not forever.
I don't think they're going to replace him with a single person. I think they're more likely to find talented people and give them a franchise, make them the lord protector of that particular set of games.
I think Eiji Aonuma is the most obvious one of the people they're going to use to replace him. He's worked on every Zelda game (excluding the Oracle series and the GBA games) since OoT. And after one Zelda game Miyamoto gave him a great deal of control over Majora's Mask. He's already busy on Phantom Hourglass.
Satoshi Tajiri, currently at Game Freak, was mentored by Miyamoto. In Pokémon's Japanese release Ash is named Satoshi, and Prof. Oak is named Shigeru (a reference to Tajiri's regard for Miyamoto as a mentor). Tajiri already executes total control over the Pokémon franchise, and could very well be transferred to other projects. He recently was involved in Drill Dozer, so he isn't stuck doing Pokémon even right now.
Yoshiaki Koizumi has worked on a seemingly endless list of titles (from almost every franchise), dating back to the SNES era. He has also directed Super Mario Sunshine, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. Now he is directing Super Mario Galaxy, at EAD Tokyo, which is under supervision of Miyamoto.
Takao Shimizu directed Star Fox 64 (the last GOOD Star Fox console game) along side Miyamoto. He also worked on Pokémon Stadium. He also now works under Miyamoto at EAD.
Shinichi Shimomura directed Kirby 64, and worked on pretty much every Kirby game before it.
Retro Studios is essentially in charge of the Metroid franchise, starting with Metroid Prime. Granted, this was a franchise created by the late Gumpei Yokoi, however I'm just trying to cover all the franchises.
I would say Masahiro Sakurai was the obvious heir apparent to all HAL projects (specifically Smash Bros. which was really already his), but he left the company. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't grooming someone to take over the project while working on Brawl.
Post by: IceCold on January 09, 2007, 08:15:44 AM
I think internally, they are developing talent nicely. Tokyo EAD (Jungle Beat) is my favourite studio of the lot. The Mario Sunshine team moved there, along with the director and producer. They're making Galaxy right now, directed by Yoshiaki Koizumi, who's worked on many high-profile games since the SNES.
EDIT: Crimm beat me, but I'd like to add that Shimizu is working on Galaxy as well..
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 09, 2007, 08:17:27 AM
Post by: Crimm on January 09, 2007, 08:22:30 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 09, 2007, 08:24:01 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 09, 2007, 09:05:41 AM
Quote
You haven't played Kameo or Perfect Dark Zero, have you Ian?
I think he means when Rare was under Nintendo's wing.
You guys also forgot about Miyamoto's right hand man Takashi Tezuka. He was with Miyamoto since the first Super Mario. The first game he made his directorial debut was Super Mario 3.
Post by: denjet78 on January 09, 2007, 10:20:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Terranigma FreakQuote
You haven't played Kameo or Perfect Dark Zero, have you Ian?
I think he means when Rare was under Nintendo's wing.
Why would anyone be making that comparison?
Quote
You guys also forgot about Miyamoto's right hand man Takashi Tezuka. He was with Miyamoto since the first Super Mario. The first game he made his directorial debut was Super Mario 3.
Why has this man not been given god-like control over a massive franchise yet? SMB3 is still one of the greatest games that was ever made!
Post by: Crimm on January 09, 2007, 12:55:07 PM
MOST OFF-TOPIC THREAD EVER!
Post by: Arbok on January 09, 2007, 01:09:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
He might not want it. That's a whole lot of pressure.
Actually, he's a producer now, not a director anymore.
Post by: Crimm on January 09, 2007, 01:14:07 PM
Post by: Arbok on January 09, 2007, 01:20:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
Either way, given the fact he has been there since the beginning he probably isn't that much younger than Miyamoto.
Correct, only by eight years.
Post by: SixthAngel on January 09, 2007, 02:01:34 PM
They shouldn't train a new Miyamoto, they will never measure up, but instead let the new blood use their own style and bring something new to the table. Miyamoto's ideas are spread throughout Nintendo and his position now will influence many of the younger developers so he will be affecting them now and their future games a lot. I think Nintendo put him in the position they need him in.
I wish more developers were known like Miyamoto and given attention instead of the companies. The real talent is in the people not the name or mascot. Movies rarely (pixar) bank on the company and usually the directors/producers/actors.
Anyway, how about Sonic. I hear he runs pretty fast.
Post by: Crimm on January 09, 2007, 04:08:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
Anyway, how about Sonic. I hear he runs pretty fast.
Yeah, but then you have to play as one of his friends either collecting some rocks or in a big ugly mech.
Post by: Adrock on January 09, 2007, 08:34:35 PM
Super Mario 64 worked so well because it wasn't just Super Mario Bros. in the third dimension. Nintendo found a way for the game to feel like a part of the Mario universe while also making a highly original title. Mario levels were never objective based, but I almost feel like that made the game better. It exists as a Mario title yet it is like no Mario game before. I suppose that's my major issue with Sunshine, but that's a different topic.
Perhaps, as others have suggested, the problem is Sonic Team. You can blame it on a lot of things. I believe that they never excelled at making 3D games. Furthermore, they haven't made much of an effort to improve in that area. Most teams outside of Sonic have fared slightly worse or failed miserably while working on Sonic (i.e. Traveller's Tales, I'll let you decide how they've done). The answer could be as easy as "give Sonic to someone else." Focusing one making one great title instead of 5 bad ones wouldn't hurt either.
Quote
SixthAngel wrote:
They shouldn't train a new Miyamoto, they will never measure up, but instead let the new blood use their own style and bring something new to the table.
Or they could just "steal" talent. Imagine Hironobu Sakaguchi, Yuji Naka, or Shinji Mikami working at Nintendo. That would basically solve both issues of buying a struggling team and grooming young directors/producers. Of crouse, I'm not serious, but if you're looking for an easy out, there's nothing easier than employing proven talent.
Post by: IceCold on January 13, 2007, 02:30:20 PM
QuoteOh the irony..
The Sonic the Hedgehog series is one of the world's most popular game series and continues to be exploited and distributed.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 13, 2007, 04:06:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Terranigma Freak Sega has been badly weakend during the 16 bits wars. Around the time DKC came out for the SNES, Sega was roughly 300 million in the red. My numbers could be off, but you can go check a book called "The Ultimate History of Video Games" for the full story. Despite their popularity in America, Sega wasn't doing as well as you think. If Sega weren't in such bad shape, they wouldn't be finished off by Sony so easily. They barely put up much of a fight against the PS/PS2.
I had heard that the 16-bit wars were Sega's best times and that the Sega sandwich competing with the Saturn was what really did them in.
Sega put themselves in that position, but Sony was what truly finished them off.
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 14, 2007, 03:35:32 AM
Quote
I had heard that the 16-bit wars were Sega's best times and that the Sega sandwich competing with the Saturn was what really did them in.
Yes and no. On the surface, yes, they had their best time during the 16 bit days, but internally, things started to go wrong during that time.
Post by: Ages on January 15, 2007, 04:24:35 AM
Post by: deathstar45 on January 15, 2007, 09:18:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I think Sonic will work in 3D if they simply bring the same formula from the 2D games into 3D: multiple branching speed paths with a light focus on exploration and puzzles.
The SONIC levels of the SA games were generally very good. If they would just make an entire game of THOSE, I have a feeling the game itself would be excellent.
I been seeing a lot of complaints about the sonic franchise similar to that, and I wholeheartedly agree. I just started playing this sonic fangame called Sonic Robo Blast 2, and I have to admit that this FANGAME is a much better 3-D sonic game than any of Sonic Teams recent excuses for a Sonic game.
I really encourage every Sonic fan to at least try this game once. You can find the game and some info at the SRB2 website at: http://www.srb2.org/
Don't worry, this is not a ROM.
This game has a lot of elements of the 2-D games in a 3-D environment. Unlike most of the 3-D sonic games, Sonic RB2 actually has alternate paths. It still has a great sense and encourages exploration like Sonic Adventure did in terms of the finding the emblems hidden in the Adventure fields. There were times where I actually got lost in the levels, something I never experience in a 3-D sonic game (except for Knuckles/Rouge's levels). I just felt I needed to posted this since no one in this topic mentioned this fangame; a sonic fangame I believe captures the essence of the classic Sonic games more than any game by "professionals" has so far.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 19, 2007, 03:01:31 PM
They also have brand new videos and screens.
They seem very ecstatic and enjoyed the demo greatly. But I am still dubious of the game's overall quality...
Post by: Crimm on January 19, 2007, 03:11:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
IGN's impressions of the latest Secret rings demo.
They also have brand new videos and screens.
They seem very ecstatic and enjoyed the demo greatly. But I am still dubious of the game's overall quality...
I spoke with someone who played it at E3, and while that was a long while ago I think it may hold here.
Me: "How was the Sonic Wildfire?"
Him: "It was eh."
Me: "Just eh?"
Him: "Look 'eh' makes it better than any Sonic game in 10 years."
Me: "Uh..."
Him: "So by that standard it's great."
I fear that kind of reverse beer gogles may come into play in any preview.
Post by: BlkPaladin on January 19, 2007, 03:15:30 PM
Post by: Mode7 on January 19, 2007, 03:47:39 PM
IF SONIC AND THE SECRET RINGS FAILS -- we can blame it on Sega for not utilizing the remote properly AND we can chalk it up to Sega's generally weak output during these past years.
IF SONIC AND THE SECRET RINGS WINS -- we can herald Sega for bringing it back AND Nintendo gets kudos for providing the means for Sega to reach it (the remote)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 19, 2007, 04:57:34 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 19, 2007, 06:46:48 PM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on January 19, 2007, 07:17:49 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on January 19, 2007, 07:19:38 PM
Post by: MaryJane on January 21, 2007, 11:57:16 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on January 22, 2007, 01:51:20 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 22, 2007, 02:07:12 AM
Quote
A portion of a CVG preview…
Sonic and the Secret Rings is a unique Sonic experience that tries to take the mascot back to his simplistic, high-speed platforming roots. Our major concerns are that the controls, although simplified in principle, don’t feel as comfortable and immediately intuitive as you would imagine. Sonic’s movement is still uncontrollably sporadic like his other 3D games, and we found ourselves fighting with the controls to get Sonic to do the simplest of actions.
This, in some cases made the game unplayable, to the point where we had died at the same part so much we considered giving up altogether. Hopefully, some polishing touches with be made to the final game before launch in a few months. If not, we could be seeing another potentially cool Sonic game turn out to be a massive disappointment.
http://computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=155871
Hmm... very interesting. Seems like the game is either a love it or hate it kind of game. Well, we're getting closer to release with each passing day, so we'll know by then. Best of luck, guys.
Post by: Ceric on January 22, 2007, 02:14:39 AM
Post by: Caterkiller on January 22, 2007, 03:18:23 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 22, 2007, 04:11:00 AM
Though, I'm hoping Sega didn't preview-punk IGN by giving them the best 5 minutes of gameplay in the entire game (like many companies do for previews).
Post by: SixthAngel on January 22, 2007, 04:14:07 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 22, 2007, 06:17:20 AM
They too have a positive preview, but notice how the end it:
"Sonic and the Secret Rings is a unique Sonic experience that tries to take the mascot back to his simplistic, high-speed platforming roots. Our major concerns are that the controls, although simplified in principle, don't feel as comfortable and immediately intuitive as you would imagine. Sonic's movement is still uncontrollably sporadic like his other 3D games, and we found ourselves fighting with the controls to get Sonic to do the simplest of actions.
This, in some cases made the game unplayable, to the point where we had died at the same part so much we considered giving up altogether. Hopefully, some polishing touches with be made to the final game before launch in a few months. If not, we could be seeing another potentially cool Sonic game turn out to be a massive disappointment."
I believe the IGN preview made no mention of potential control issues. To be fair, though, similar complaints were made against some games that didn't have much of a problem, but this is a Sega game we are talking about.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2007, 06:25:10 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 22, 2007, 07:16:41 AM
I'm starting to get excited for this game...or maybe that's just the coffee I've started on...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 22, 2007, 07:32:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'm going to have to go with IGN because they're usually harsher on games and this time they're actually pleased.
I'm starting to get excited for this game...or maybe that's just the coffee I've started on...
But they can also be too forgiving on highly anticipated games.
Then again, this is a Sega game, a next gen Sonic game as well. I honestly don't recall a next gen Sonic game doing well in its previews stages.
We'll see in March...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2007, 07:55:50 AM
This completely nullifies their article since Sonic in 3D hardly goes anywhere else but forward (and anywhere else the stage forcefully bumps you to).
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 22, 2007, 07:55:53 AM
I played the demo of STH on the 360 and knew it was crap when Sonic kept flying off the edge to his death without much difficulty and that carried over to the final game.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 22, 2007, 08:10:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
That's true.
I played the demo of STH on the 360 and knew it was crap when Sonic kept flying off the edge to his death without much difficulty and that carried over to the final game.
Glad I am not the only one to experience that, after falling to my death about 4 time in a matter of seconds each time I decided the game truly was terrible!
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 22, 2007, 09:52:09 AM
Quote
Sonic and the Secret Rings - Sega’s Yojiro Ogawa: “Originally, we were going to produce Sonic the Hedgehog, the game we did for Xbox 360, on all platforms, including Wii. But after we looked at the Wii remote and the features of the controller, we decided to produce a new, completely different Sonic title for the system”…one stage you’ll be exploring a wreckage of a pirate ship on a storm sea, another an ancient ruins with giant flying beasts. Nintendo Power: The game features No Treasure Hunting (Sonic is the only playable character), No Wonky Camera, No Brooding Anti-Hero, No Guns and No dim-witted obese felines. NP says it would be misleading to think it’s a game on rails as it serves some platforming as you can jump with the 2 button, physically moving Wiimote to launch him at enemies etc. 1 Button allows you to slow down/hit the breaks.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2007, 12:06:05 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on January 23, 2007, 03:45:34 AM
The latest Nintendo Power says it will have a review up next issue, with an add inside claiming its coming out in Feb!
Other characters do appear, but don't worry they aren't played with in single player.
Post by: Crimm on January 23, 2007, 04:35:02 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 23, 2007, 05:55:20 AM
Translation: “Originally, we were going to produce Sonic the Hedgehog, the game we did for Xbox 360, on all platforms, including Wii. But after all the negative reviews came out we knew we could never get away with selling that turd on a different console so we decided to produce a new, completely different Sonic title for the system."
Post by: decoyman on January 23, 2007, 06:12:31 AM
First Person Sonic.
Now, before anyone goes off, let me explain. See, I was watching videos of someone's coasters they created in Rollercoaster Tycoon, and I thought... THIS is what 3D Sonic should be like. I mean, Sonic's old games were basically like coaster rides – high-speed, loops, hills, corkscrews, etc. Imagine running into a spring platform at the bottom of a hill, and it rockets you to the top of the hill, where you teeter for a moment, and then plunge headlong down the hill at breakneck speeds, a chain of rings giving you a path to follow, then flying off a ramp at the bottom of the hill over a ravine, adjusting your trajectory a bit to collect rings in the air. You land on the other side, and are going full blast and tear into a tube. You're going so fast that you can run on the walls and even the ceiling, and you HAVE to do this to avoid spikes on the ground.
Since all of this is in first person, it'd give you the feel of a roller coaster. Just thinking about a Sonic game like this gives me chills...
Post by: Arbok on January 23, 2007, 06:29:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Translation: “Originally, we were going to produce Sonic the Hedgehog, the game we did for Xbox 360, on all platforms, including Wii. But after all the negative reviews came out we knew we could never get away with selling that turd on a different console so we decided to produce a new, completely different Sonic title for the system."
This game was in development long before the 360 Sonic came out and was panned... and that version is still coming to the PS3.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 23, 2007, 06:32:36 AM
Oh okay. I was just being cheeky.
Man that PS3 game is going to BO-OMB. (Pronouce bomb with two syllables to get the proper emphasis.)
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on January 23, 2007, 07:33:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
If this Sonic doesn't work out... I suggest a radical redesign:
First Person Sonic.
Now, before anyone goes off, let me explain. See, I was watching videos of someone's coasters they created in Rollercoaster Tycoon, and I thought... THIS is what 3D Sonic should be like. I mean, Sonic's old games were basically like coaster rides – high-speed, loops, hills, corkscrews, etc. Imagine running into a spring platform at the bottom of a hill, and it rockets you to the top of the hill, where you teeter for a moment, and then plunge headlong down the hill at breakneck speeds, a chain of rings giving you a path to follow, then flying off a ramp at the bottom of the hill over a ravine, adjusting your trajectory a bit to collect rings in the air. You land on the other side, and are going full blast and tear into a tube. You're going so fast that you can run on the walls and even the ceiling, and you HAVE to do this to avoid spikes on the ground.
Since all of this is in first person, it'd give you the feel of a roller coaster. Just thinking about a Sonic game like this gives me chills...
That sounds cool, but It's hard to tell where your character's feet are in first person view, which makes any kind of precision jumping a headache. Also, this reminds me of S.T.U.N. Runner for some reason.
Post by: Terranigma Freak on January 23, 2007, 11:17:52 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 23, 2007, 11:25:38 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 23, 2007, 12:14:15 PM
Hell I bet the only Arabian Night story Sega knows about is Aladdin and they probobly only watched the animated Disney movie instead of reading the actual story.
Post by: Amodaus1 on January 23, 2007, 02:13:45 PM
Post by: KirbySStar on January 24, 2007, 04:33:53 AM
Post by: Kairon on January 24, 2007, 04:38:29 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ceric on January 24, 2007, 07:40:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Murder Arabian Nights, not Sonic. Don't hook Sonic up with any chix either. Especially human chix.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Yep Yep.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 24, 2007, 08:43:28 AM
Post by: Amodaus1 on January 24, 2007, 10:42:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I heard about that: Sonic kissing anything is just...wrong.
Beastiality is in for 2007. Ignorance of the love between a hedgehog and a sweet but sexuallu frustrated teenage princess is so 2006. If you'll excuse me i'm not going to listen to anymore of this biggotry, I'm heading over to the barn, maybe i'll find tails in the chicken coup.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 24, 2007, 11:54:54 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 24, 2007, 12:41:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Amodaus1
Beastiality is in for 2007. Ignorance of the love between a hedgehog and a sweet but sexuallu frustrated teenage princess is so 2006. If you'll excuse me i'm not going to listen to anymore of this biggotry, I'm heading over to the barn, maybe i'll find tails in the chicken coup.
There are enough jokes about the Sonic universe in that vein already.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 25, 2007, 02:31:22 PM
IGN just posted the newest trailer. It's on the screens and video page included on the preview link I posted earlier.
It's really cool, some interesting levels are shown.
Post by: wandering on January 25, 2007, 03:34:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Like I said, I liked SA 1&2, though I admit the camera was pretty awful.
All the Sonic games since then have had such horrible reviews that I've never tried them, and I've had a friend who bought STH on 360 return it in a fit of rage.
You might consider renting shadow. I've never played it, but I remember at least one reviewer saying he gave it such a low score, not because it was any worse than the previous games, but because he was tired of issues like bad camera going unresolved.
Post by: Caterkiller on January 26, 2007, 03:45:00 AM
I baught it, finished 3 story lines, and gave it a away. Couldn't believe I got that far.
From these videos, and this trailer, I am liking what I am seeing control wise. I like that who ever is playing can steer Sonic very easily. In one video on IGN a line of rings leads right into a spike ball or something like that, but who ever is playing easily grabs all the rings and just side steps the obsticle. That kind of thing was near impossible in all the 3D games, you could move from side to side at top speed, but it was very difficult, so the best thing to do was to hold forward until the next speed boost or jump.
With out playing the game, so far my only complaint is that Sonic doesn't roll into a ball any more. Ever since Sonic Adventure 2 they have been slowly taking that away from the series, just to make his jumping a little more realistic. LAME!
Right now things are looking decent, we don't have to worry about the camera, and if the controles are good, it will no doubt be pretty fun. But still, please, no one get your hopes up. This is still back- stabbing Sonic we are talking about here. If its good, lets all be pleasantly surprised.
Post by: IceCold on January 30, 2007, 03:37:09 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 30, 2007, 03:54:09 PM
Post by: MarioAllStar on January 30, 2007, 03:59:54 PM
Post by: IceCold on January 30, 2007, 04:06:24 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 30, 2007, 04:19:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
They said it's been in development for more than two and a half years, although of course they didn't start focusing on the Wii from that early on. It's probably as ready as it's ever going to be..
Still, this is Sega we are talking about... It wouldn't surprise me if one of the reasons they are rushing the game out is because they want it out so they can make a profit ASAP.
Post by: Caterkiller on January 31, 2007, 06:20:25 PM
Take a look. http://www.famitsu.com/fwtv/#
Click the "SEGA" screen.
So far things are looking very good, lots of variety in Sonic's actions, the stages look very nice, and we all know the camera will be wondefull this time around.
Post by: Ceric on February 01, 2007, 05:22:39 AM
The multiplayer parts I saw I could live without.
Post by: IceCold on February 01, 2007, 07:24:39 AM
Post by: Kairon on February 01, 2007, 07:42:43 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 01, 2007, 07:57:20 AM
k thx bye
Post by: Deguello on February 01, 2007, 08:08:27 AM
Post by: MaryJane on February 01, 2007, 08:12:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Wrong, Super Mario Kart. Later, Goldeneye.
k thx bye
LoL.
I for one like the whole multiplayer side jobs, I'll tell you one other thing, I liked multiplayer in Metroid Prime 2. I don't know what the hell everyone is talking about with that it's a solo mission crap! Who gives a sh!t, just shoot your friend in the head.
Post by: Kairon on February 01, 2007, 08:20:27 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Edit: In a demonstration of just how NEW it is to me to even consider buying a Sonic game, I mistakenly called Amy the name Rose originally.
Post by: Ceric on February 01, 2007, 09:30:33 AM
Post by: IceCold on February 01, 2007, 11:13:15 AM
QuoteIt's Sega, what do you expect? They have AiAi holding the controller in the boxart, and Sonic tossing it up and down in the trailer.
No, those were competitive versions of the single player! These... minigames.... don't play at all like the single player! What does Sonic: Secret of the Rings have to do with Rose playing a violin? What does Monkeyball have to do with landing monkeys on giant targets?
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 04, 2007, 06:11:58 AM
I think there's a glimmer of hope here after all...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 04, 2007, 07:33:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
New trailer...
I think there's a glimmer of hope here after all...
Don't be so sure...Trailers can be very deceitful and be filled with lies.
Many people thought that Sonic next gen looked like a good game based solely on trailers and screens and look how THAT ended.
The REAL test of the quality of the game will be when the game is finally in our hands, as well as the hands of the reviewers.
Don't get me wrong, the trailer is kickass, but lord knows that perhaps the coolest, most intense parts of the trailer could be the most irritating, frustrating and unplayable part of the game.
Post by: segagamer12 on February 04, 2007, 08:21:28 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on February 04, 2007, 09:01:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
ITS SEGA, ITS SONIC!, Sega doesnt mess up Sonic. come on now.
Yeah, if you've been paying attention then you'd know that the PS3 version of Sonic is completely devoid of all the problems that plagued the 360 version. A very good sign for Secret Rings.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 04, 2007, 09:32:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Terranigma FreakQuote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
ITS SEGA, ITS SONIC!, Sega doesnt mess up Sonic. come on now.
Yeah, if you've been paying attention then you'd know that the PS3 version of Sonic is completely devoid of all the problems that plagued the 360 version. A very good sign for Secret Rings.
I think segagamer was being sarcastic when he said that.
But are you being serious or sarcastic?
Frankly, I haven't heard anything about the PS3 version of Sonic next gen, or knew that it was already out.
Post by: Maverick on February 04, 2007, 09:39:52 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 04, 2007, 10:30:40 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 05, 2007, 06:22:19 PM
If the game is focused on being a visceral, speed-based experience (which it very much seems to be) then I could see myself really enjoying it.
It looks like there's a version of "Sonic Party" (aka. Sonic Shuffle) included as a four player game. While I don't have much faith that it'll be decent, the title looks pretty damn polished so who knows?
Here's hoping I'm not setting myself up for extreme disappointment...
Post by: Crimm on February 05, 2007, 06:38:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Terranigma FreakQuote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
ITS SEGA, ITS SONIC!, Sega doesnt mess up Sonic. come on now.
Yeah, if you've been paying attention then you'd know that the PS3 version of Sonic is completely devoid of all the problems that plagued the 360 version. A very good sign for Secret Rings.
It doesn't have MOST of the TECHNICAL issues. It's still a bad game. There is no reason for an entire mission based around the concept of estimating the number of crates in a stack.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 06, 2007, 04:15:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I have to be honest: after watching the new trailer a few more times, I do have more than a glimmer of hope for this game.
If the game is focused on being a visceral, speed-based experience (which it very much seems to be) then I could see myself really enjoying it.
It looks like there's a version of "Sonic Party" (aka. Sonic Shuffle) included as a four player game. While I don't have much faith that it'll be decent, the title looks pretty damn polished so who knows?
Here's hoping I'm not setting myself up for extreme disappointment...
I think the after surgery pain is making you delirious. Maybe that's why you think you have hope for the game
.All kidding aside, the trailer DOES look cool, but the reason I am still hesitant on the final game is because trailers for anything (movies, TV shows, games) have the annoying tendency to paint you a pretty picture, not giving you the WHOLE thing.
Like I said, the coolest parts of the trailer could be the most annoying and frustrating gameplay way. Frankly, the scenes where Sonic is running at insane speeds then jumping over obstacles and hitting enemies look like it could cause the most trouble and annoyance.
So I said it once and I'll say it again, the only way we can tell if this game is good or not is when we finally have it on our hands.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 06, 2007, 04:35:55 AM
A Sonic website called "Sonic stadium" was able to demo the final build of the game, even testing the multiplayer portion of the game with other editors.
The latest impressions.
They also mention new stuff like new playable modes, difficulty, extras and cutscenes.
They came out impressed with the demo, but are still dubious of the final game. They only demoed the two stages Sega has been showing off for a year now, so like I said earlier, those two stages could indeed be the best and could get worse from then on.
Post by: Ceric on February 06, 2007, 05:15:15 AM
1. I could live without Sonic saying stuff.
2. I sort wish that when Sonic was going close to top speed the camera would move back a little like it was having a hard time keeping up and there be a little speed oriented distortion. I always liked that in the 2D one how you could out race the screens sort of.
Edit: I just read the interview over at IGN. It sounded like they needed something and htis just happened to come about. Not really thinking about going back to the old style.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 12, 2007, 04:09:39 PM
Notice how the 1up article mentions things that Secret rings is already trying to avoid (tag along characters, speed, no Shadow etc.).
There's still a story, but isn't overly cinematic from what I've seen.
Could they know something we don't?
Post by: Caterkiller on February 13, 2007, 06:15:36 AM
If this game isn't any good, to justify at least an 8.5 on my own personal scale I am done. I don't want to see Sonic's blue spikey butt again unless its in Brawl. At least then I can be assured he will be in a quality game.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 13, 2007, 08:35:30 AM
Yessir, I'm keepin' the faith...
(though, if I see a cascade of terrible reviews between now and then, I can simply opt to not pick the game up and get my money back...)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 13, 2007, 08:51:38 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 13, 2007, 09:01:34 AM
I'd be worried, but the videos look awesome enough that I think the game is finished.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 13, 2007, 09:05:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Not yer fault: they moved it up from March.
I'd be worried, but the videos look awesome enough that I think the game is finished.
Well I'm going to hold out until I can see some review. After playing the demo of Sonic on Xbox 360, I am almost terrified to touch another Sonic game!
Post by: Ceric on February 13, 2007, 09:29:39 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 13, 2007, 09:31:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
This would definitely be a better month then March for it to release competition wise. This is definitely a rent. I think I can beat it being my slow self in about 2 weeks from the look of it. Though I might get the game and that be totally wrong.
I was just looking at March, the drought definately will be over that month! Hopefully some of those games turn out to be high quality.
Post by: Kairon on February 13, 2007, 09:31:57 AM
Sega BETTER get this right or they'll screw up Nintendo's February and hurt the Wii's rep! The Wii can benefit a lot from becoming the console that ressurected Sonic.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 13, 2007, 09:33:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Grrrr...
Sega BETTER get this right or they'll screw up Nintendo's February and hurt the Wii's rep! The Wii can benefit a lot from becoming the console that ressurected Sonic.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Doesn't matter, even if the Wii ressurected Sonic, Sega would continue making dumb descisions like last generation.
Post by: couchmonkey on February 13, 2007, 09:40:28 AM
I'm actually pretty sure this is going to be good, though. All the videos I've seen look pretty cool.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 14, 2007, 07:30:27 AM
Here's the link.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 14, 2007, 08:21:27 AM
I'm feeling more secure in my purchase all the time, especially since the guy admits that he loved the game despite the fact that he prefers 2D platformers.
Post by: Ceric on February 14, 2007, 09:23:24 AM
Though forums like that remind me why I pefer no pictures in Sigs. They all sound alright just picking through the graphic sigs is annoying.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 14, 2007, 03:02:42 PM
Including Yojiro Ogawa's opinion that he'd like to see Sonic in SSBB!
Post by: Crimm on February 14, 2007, 03:23:24 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 14, 2007, 03:43:23 PM
Dammit, I want reviews.
Supposedly, GameOn gave it a 9.2/10, but they also gave the 360 version an 8.7 so that destroys their credibility right there.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 14, 2007, 07:21:54 PM
... and therefore the best 3d Sonic ever.
Post by: Koekoenutt on February 15, 2007, 06:49:01 AM
Post by: Ceric on February 15, 2007, 07:02:19 AM
Post by: IceCold on February 15, 2007, 07:14:10 AM
QuoteI'd wait for some more reviews of Sonic. Trauma Centre is a great game, but if Secret Rings turns out as good as it looks, you'd be missing out. You can also get Trauma Centre for the DS for cheaper later on..
I never played any Trama Center and looking at MetaReview, it looks to be one of the better Wii games out there. Anyone think I should pick this title up instead of Sonic, or just wait the week and see how things go with the reviews?
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 15, 2007, 07:16:47 AM
Until Gamestop starts penalizing people for changing preorders, keep doing it. Hell, I've even preordered something that had a bonus in the past, picked up the bonus crap before it launched, then cancelled the preorder.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 15, 2007, 11:32:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
He took the best path, IMO: put $5 down on it. If reviews saying it sucks emerge, don't pick it up and put your $5 toward something else instead.
Until Gamestop starts penalizing people for changing preorders, keep doing it. Hell, I've even preordered something that had a bonus in the past, picked up the bonus crap before it launched, then cancelled the preorder.
I really doubt they'd ever penalize you, they are most likely making money on preorders even if you cancel since they are able to invest that money you gave them.
Post by: The Traveller on February 15, 2007, 12:09:56 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 15, 2007, 02:48:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I really doubt they'd ever penalize you, they are most likely making money on preorders even if you cancel since they are able to invest that money you gave them.
Yeah, that's true. The little preorder stuff is of no consequence to them, so long as they get their $$$ from you early.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 15, 2007, 03:00:41 PM
I know that mom tried to pre-order Wii Play nearly 3 weeks before release and they told her that she couldn't reserve it because the time to pre order was up.
So how could you reserve Sonic a week before release?
Post by: IceCold on February 15, 2007, 03:54:55 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 15, 2007, 05:27:59 PM
Post by: Koekoenutt on February 15, 2007, 11:42:47 PM
Decided to stick with it and wait for Sonic. From what I can tell, the next game after that is SSX Blur and then Tiger Woods '07 for the end of Feb/beginning of March. Can't say I'm to interested in SSX Blur, and rather rate a few more weeks after Tiger Woods for another game to come out. March looks like a good upstart in games and we all know April has it's treat. Figure if Sonic really is that bad with decent reviews, I can always trade it in for some DS games or WiiPoints Card.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 16, 2007, 04:17:17 AM
Not just because I have the game reserved but because I'm dire curious to know if this is finally the game which might redeem my childhood hero.
God only knows it can't be any worse than the 360/PS3 version.
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I just realized something S_B. How could you reserve Secret rings? I thought that the pre-oder deadline would've been over by now.
I know that mom tried to pre-order Wii Play nearly 3 weeks before release and they told her that she couldn't reserve it because the time to pre order was up.
So how could you reserve Sonic a week before release?
It's probably because New Hampshirewhites aren't huge gamers, hence why I can reserve it at any Gamestop without much issue. Puerto Rican's on the other hand seem to love nothing more than to form huge lines inside every Gamestop.
Is that still happening or was it a holiday occurrence?
Post by: Rhoq on February 16, 2007, 04:32:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I just realized something S_B. How could you reserve Secret rings? I thought that the pre-oder deadline would've been over by now.
GameStop will allow you to pre-order any game at any time until the the store closes the day before it's expected to arrive at the store! This never made any sense to me, since they could get a flood of pre-orders the day before and not receive enough stock to fill them all.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 16, 2007, 07:05:37 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 16, 2007, 07:14:19 AM
If nothing else, far too many people have been burned on 3D Sonics that I fear this one won't get the chance it deserves. I read comments replying to articles about Secret Rings and a lot of people say, "It's Sonic, it's guaranteed to suck." and there's no one to blame for that precedent except Sega itself.
God willing, the game will get some good word of mouth and rise up in the charts. From everything I've seen and heard, it looks like it will deserve it.
Post by: Caterkiller on February 16, 2007, 04:44:56 PM
http://gonintendo.com/?p=13346
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 16, 2007, 06:06:34 PM
I would say wait till more reviews show up, mainly because EGM tends to exaggerate their opinions when it comes to reviews. Plus, I see Sonic being one of those games that some will hate despite quality (and with the rep the series has gained since 1999 it isn't surprising).
Post by: KDR_11k on February 16, 2007, 10:30:43 PM
Pfft. Every Sonic game (with the possible exception of Shadow but I've even seen kids say "that's cool" when seeing the game) rises up in the charts, especially in the UK.
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 17, 2007, 09:29:37 AM
This shows just how low Sega has set the bar for Sonic games. Back in the Genesis days if Sega was to release a Sonic 4, the game would have to be of high quality or else the fans would be angry. But now most Sonic fans will be happy if the game just barely passes as good.
It's a rather despressing fact.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 17, 2007, 09:47:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Well calling it the best 3d Sonic doesn't really mean much since all the other 3d Sonic games range from mediocre to complete sh!t. The game just has to be decent to be considered the best 3d Sonic game.
This shows just how low Sega has set the bar for Sonic games. Back in the Genesis days if Sega was to release a Sonic 4, the game would have to be of high quality or else the fans would be angry. But now most Sonic fans will be happy if the game just barely passes as good.
It's a rather despressing fact.
Considering Sonic Adventure was my favorite Sonic game, I think that is promising that it is one of the best Sonic's. Then again that comment could have been referred to the post-DC era Sonic which was molested.
Post by: couchmonkey on February 19, 2007, 05:11:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
God willing, the game will get some good word of mouth and rise up in the charts.
Pfft. Every Sonic game (with the possible exception of Shadow but I've even seen kids say "that's cool" when seeing the game) rises up in the charts, especially in the UK.
True. Peer at IGN did a blog entry on marketing and sales where he compared Shadow the Hedgehog to Shadow of the Collosus. At the time (October 30th 2006), he said:
Quote
So far, Shadow the Hedgehog has sold 407,000 copies for GameCube in the US (according to NPD), 285,000 copies on PlayStation 2 and 106,000 copies on Xbox...we're seeing two things at work here. For one, Shadow sold more than half-a-million copies despite overwhelmingly negative press coverage. But on the other hand, Shadow didn't sell as well as its Sonic predecessors.
The game still sold reasonably well, and although I think goodwill is running out for the series, I also think there are a lot of people out there who have enjoyed the 3D games. In fact I've probably said that several times in this thread alone - Sonic is still popular with a lot of people, especially kids who weren't raised on the 2D games. I think this game is going to sell a good half million in the next few weeks.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 19, 2007, 05:21:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey I think this game is going to sell a good half million in the next few weeks.
I truly hope it does because then maybe Sega will wake the f*ck up and finally see that A) Sonic's proper home is on Nintendo consoles and B) big surprise, people buy Sonic games because they want to play as SONIC.
It's basically impossible for SR to NOT outsell STH on 360/PS3. From what I heard, the 360 version sold less than 50k copies on opening week and the PS3 version sold even less: absolutely PATHETIC numbers for a Sonic game.
If Sega has anyone working at the company who can do basic math, they'll realize that the development costs for making Sonic games on the 360/PS3 aren't justified, what with the HD requirements and the fact that the games sell like sh*t.
Maybe it'll be the Wii's market disruption which finally forces companies like Sega to shift their development focus to the platforms where their games actually sell. I mean, the Sonic games ALWAYS sold better on the GC anyway. Now, if the Wii version sells 500k+ copies and the 360/PS3 version doesn't even break 100k, this might actually be a powerful enough wake up call to Sega to stop bothering with the other consoles.
Before, they could justify porting the same game to three consoles. Now that the Wii is so different and doesn't require huge HD budgets for its games, it's readily possible that making Sonic games exclusively for Wii will be more profitable than trying to cover all three consoles.
It's funny: my friends and I joked that the downloadable demo for STH on 360 wasn't a demo, it was a warning...
Post by: Ceric on February 19, 2007, 05:42:21 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 19, 2007, 05:43:08 AM
If it was possible to clue them in on that the sales of every 3d Sonic game would have done it already.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 19, 2007, 05:53:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k If it was possible to clue them in on that the sales of every 3d Sonic game would have done it already.
See, that's my point: in the past, porting the game to all three consoles of that gen resulted in still reasonable and profitable sales on other consoles.
Now, we can clearly see the the idea of a big, sh*tty anime clichéd story driven, HD graphic Sonic didn't pan out...at all, but that's what 360/PS3 ARE: traditional control systems with an emphasis on graphics.
However, in mere days, we will be seeing what a Wiimote-driven, gameplay oriented Sonic game will do.
This will be the first time where Sega is actually taking a LOSS from bringing Sonic to non-Nintendo consoles. My only hope is that they don't try to port SR over to 360/PS3 but I largely suspect they will anyway, despite the fact that people who have tried the game say it'd suck with an analogue stick.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 19, 2007, 07:51:45 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 19, 2007, 08:19:58 AM
You have to figure that an analogue stick has roughly 90° of steering that it can do from left to right and the sad truth is that human beings just AREN'T that precise in their thumbs, at least not without more training than the average player will have patience for.
One of the reasons Excite Truck was so damn good was because of the fact that you literally have 360° of steering at your disposal: when you want to make minute adjustments to your direction, you can, but when you want to cut the wheel as hard as possible, you can also do this by tilting the controller near-vertically.
I haven't played the game yet, but I have seen places in videos of the game where Sonic is expected to make small, rapid movements left and right and, IMHO, that's not going to work terribly well on an analogue stick because doing it quickly is nigh impossible without overshooting.
Granted, none of this is a real roadblock to Sega porting the game to other consoles, but I can already tell you that it will play better with the Wiimote than it would with an analogue.
Post by: Artimus on February 19, 2007, 09:37:15 AM
Post by: Ceric on February 19, 2007, 02:31:58 PM
Post by: Artimus on February 19, 2007, 05:50:14 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 19, 2007, 06:00:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I don't think the sixaxis or wiimote have an advantage in that department. It's not like the Sixaxis is comfortable. And the 2 buttons on the wiitmote are better suited as well. Also, I think turning the wiimote feels better than a regular controller.
I have to agree there, Excite Truck feels so natural with the Wiimote and works perfectly. On the other hand even though I haven't played a game on PS3 that uses the tilt, I can't imagine it being very comfortable. For one the shape of the PS3 controller just isn't good for tilting.
Post by: KDR_11k on February 19, 2007, 06:09:46 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on February 20, 2007, 02:35:46 AM
Actually, that might work really well...
Post by: Ceric on February 20, 2007, 04:24:55 AM
Quote
From IGN
US: February 20, 2007
Japan: December 31, 2007
Europe: March 3, 2007
Are those right?
I mean Europe doesn't surprise me because that is around the original release date but I'm very surprised about Japan.
Post by: Crimm on February 20, 2007, 04:27:14 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 20, 2007, 05:30:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
So it'd play better with a steering wheel on other consoles?
Not unless it's 3" in diameter.
You would not be able to move a steering wheel quickly enough to play SR properly. Going from one side of the screen to the other and back again with the Wiimote takes only a few quick twists. A steering wheel would require you to jerk the thing uncontrollably.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 20, 2007, 05:55:57 AM
85%, and it was the voice acting and music which bothered the reviewer the most.
And once again, "Feels like the 2D Sonics" and "Best Sonic game in years" were likewise both mentioned.
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 20, 2007, 11:06:40 AM
Junichi Kanemaru IS Sonic. His voice has fit Sonic perfectly since the original Sonic Adventure. Plus all the crazy engrish he uses made it a blast to play as Sonic, which is another reason why the Sonic levels in both Adventure games are the only parts of the 3d Sonic's I actually enjoyed.
Post by: Arbok on February 20, 2007, 11:39:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
First Review
85%, and it was the voice acting and music which bothered the reviewer the most.
They gave it a B+, which sounds good... but then they gave Sonic Heroes a B- so...
Post by: Eiffel Power on February 20, 2007, 12:40:42 PM
QuoteSame reviewer?
Originally posted by: ArbokQuoteThey gave it a B+, which sounds good... but then they gave Sonic Heroes a B- so...
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
First Review
85%, and it was the voice acting and music which bothered the reviewer the most.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 20, 2007, 12:55:29 PM
I had seen some other scores which were 4/5 and 90%, but I can't find them now...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 20, 2007, 12:55:39 PM
Post by: Crimm on February 20, 2007, 01:27:19 PM
Post by: Artimus on February 20, 2007, 01:58:31 PM
"Call me harsh, but I don't believe you should be forced to deal with the bad to enjoy the good and hence, I've scored the game with that in mind."
http://wii.ign.com/articles/766/766214p1.html
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 20, 2007, 02:00:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
IGN (Matt) gives it 6.9 and explains it thus:
"Call me harsh, but I don't believe you should be forced to deal with the bad to enjoy the good and hence, I've scored the game with that in mind."
http://wii.ign.com/articles/766/766214p1.html
Dangit you beat me to it! Anyway even with the 6.9 it sounds like a solid game just marred by some flaws. Sounds like a must buy to me after reading the content of the review.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 20, 2007, 02:10:19 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 20, 2007, 02:14:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I would say IGN is just being the bitchers that they are, but this IS Sonic, and even if the game is truly the best 3D Sonic game yet, some will hate it based on principle.
Well the score seems justified, the game seems to have some big problems with backtracking, camera and poor level design in places.
Post by: Maverick on February 20, 2007, 02:46:19 PM
I just don't understand...
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 20, 2007, 02:49:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Maverick
So does Sega just refuse to make a good Sonic platformer. I've enjoyed some of the 3d games in the past, but they're all pretty janky and disorienting and sometimes just plain boring. SA2B was fun when you played Sonic or Shadow, but the rest was terribly boring and stupid.
I just don't understand...
Don't jump into conclusions just yet. IGN is so far the only negative review the game has gotten, while some of the other reviews have been in the 80 and B areas.
Post by: Maverick on February 20, 2007, 02:56:55 PM
Sometimes I think developers don't play the games they make.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 20, 2007, 03:01:35 PM
"We had the misfortune of playing the abysmal Sonic the Hedgehog projects for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 and can state with the utmost confidence that Wii's Secret Rings is an entirely different - and much more coveted - league than these games."
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 20, 2007, 03:02:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Maverick
Do you know what the average reviews for SA2B were? If it got about the same or less then I will consider Secret Rings. I think the 360 offering just scarred me for life. How on Earth that game got made just blows my mind.
Sometimes I think developers don't play the games they make.
72% according to Game Rankings
Post by: Nick DiMola on February 20, 2007, 03:27:30 PM
Post by: Crimm on February 20, 2007, 05:41:31 PM
Sega I'm really disa...no you know what, just hand it off to the people that made the DS game.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 20, 2007, 05:43:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
So we've concluded what, this game is passable?
Sega I'm really disa...no you know what, just hand it off to the people that made the DS game.
Uuuuuuuh....no.
Only like 4 reviews have been posted and NO ONE has gotten the game. So its too early to say if the game is good or not.
Post by: Caterkiller on February 20, 2007, 05:46:04 PM
Post by: Crimm on February 20, 2007, 05:48:12 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 20, 2007, 05:52:13 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 20, 2007, 05:56:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
No, but the reviews are all seemingly in the 7 range.
Not really, only one is a 7, one is a 6.9 and the other two are in the 80s. And like I said, no one has played it yet.
The REAL decision lies in the fans. If a great deal of the fans in here like it, the game is good, period.
Look, its understandable if you are pissed as hell at Sega for screwing the Sonic franchise up. If you don't care for Secret Rings, fine. Just don't go around saying "Oh fans have low standards" or "Its a 7 or 8, not worth it". You don't care, but we DO.
Post by: Crimm on February 20, 2007, 06:06:18 PM
Go back and read this thread. "Well as long as it isnt terrible it's the best 3D game yet!"
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 20, 2007, 06:15:55 PM
AUGH THE FANS SUCK
Post by: Svevan on February 20, 2007, 07:09:51 PM
Post by: Maverick on February 21, 2007, 02:29:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
SA2B was one of Sega's best sellers last gen.
AUGH THE FANS SUCK
I thought it was alright, but only the Sonic/Shadow levels. And the creepy alien baby things you could raise gave me nightmares. :-\
Post by: Athrun Zala on February 21, 2007, 03:11:22 AM
the score average is 76 according to metacritic, with IGN's score being the lowest...
Post by: couchmonkey on February 21, 2007, 04:14:49 AM
Post by: IceCold on February 21, 2007, 05:27:18 AM
I'll definitely pick it up though, as soon as it gets its first price drop.
Post by: utarefsoN on February 21, 2007, 06:00:24 AM
Post by: Maverick on February 21, 2007, 10:49:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: utarefsoN
never really played a sonic game.
My head a-splode.
Post by: Artimus on February 21, 2007, 11:35:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
Matt is just being a whiny bastard, as usual.... he says that "Sonic and the Secret Rings is my favorite entry into the franchise since its 2D roots" and it gets the same score as SA2:B and LOWER than SH?
the score average is 76 according to metacritic, with IGN's score being the lowest...
He didn't review that. But, oddly, he did give Sonic Heroes an 8.0.
Post by: Darkheart on February 21, 2007, 01:18:07 PM
I'm going straight to cons
-Party games are STUPID boring and really lame, use wario ware or the upcoming mario party for your mini game needs
-I know people complain about shaking the controller for honing and attacking but I have no issue with this, its quite responsive to me. YET, the part I am frustrated with the most is the sensitivity of turning left and right. With Excite truck you barely had to move the controller to make a sharp turn, with Sonic its ridiculous how much i have to turn and not only that he moves left to right quite sluggish.
-Moving the controller back to move backwards is the most retarded thing ever~! Sometimes I will be in full speed and all of sudden find myself braking suddenly only to find myself walking backwards for no reason. Sega could of EASILY fixed this by making you HOLD down a BUTTON and perhaps THEN PULL the controller backwards. It really disrupts gameplay for me. . .
-Surprisingly its not the music OR the voice actors that bother me, its the horrible dialogue. The game's story is told through comic-like panels with a nice sketchy painterly look that actually goes well with the game. Voice overs are dubbed over these scenes but the writing is poor, very poor. Though I will make mention of one voice actor that was HORRIBLE and that would be the main bad guy of this game. Think of any Disney film villain, now imagine the auditions for that part, now imagine the worst of them, now multiply it by 10 and you pretty much have his voice. I am seriously thinking of switching the voices to Japanese just because of him.
-I have no clue where they explain the controls in the game, there is a tutorial world but half the missions for it never explained what to do I just remembered what buttons did what based on interviews and impressions I had read earlier.
Ok now for the good
-The angsty music actually does not bother me . . . . at all. I think it flows with the quirkiness of the game and is good.
-Missions can be nasty hard but there always seems to be enough easy missions to complete to at least get you to the next world.
-While some missions are unbelievably cheap, the load times are pretty nonexistant and to retry the mission is just a matter of simply clicking a button.
-The graphics to me are very polished gamecube to me, some of the effects are pretty and overall the game has good art direction.
-I dont care what everyone says, the missions really do shake up the enviornment. Each mission I have played thus far makes me feel like I am playing a different part of the stage, almost going back to classic Sonic acts. This really allows a lot of breathing room for level design and replayability.
-The exp system and the customizable ability rings are a great and welcome addition, I actually now want to play missions I skipped over because I want exp so I can level up.
-LOTS AND LOTS OF UNLOCKABLES
Realize I have only played a couple hours into this game but despite my somewhat negative impressions I really dont regret my purchase. I would reccomend it to anyone here who is willing to put up with Sonic again. I will post some further impressions after I play more of the game.
At this point I rate this game 74 out of 100, its average and pretty fun. Its a purchase if you are willing to try Sega's attempt at a unique semi-flawed idea, or a rental for anyone else.
If anyone has a question just post something and I will try to get to it.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 21, 2007, 02:20:11 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 21, 2007, 02:36:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I was just about to ask if someone had gotten the game. Good impressions, darkheart. Even with the issues it sounds like technically Secret rings is more polished than Sonic next gen.
Not like that is something to be proud of, all sega would need to do is burn ET onto the Sonic disk and it still would be a better game.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 21, 2007, 02:44:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
I was just about to ask if someone had gotten the game. Good impressions, darkheart. Even with the issues it sounds like technically Secret rings is more polished than Sonic next gen.
Not like that is something to be proud of, all sega would need to do is burn ET onto the Sonic disk and it still would be a better game.
I don't quite understand what you are saying...Are you saying that SR being much better in terms of technology than Sonic next gen is not something to be proud of? I'm confused...
Post by: Darkheart on February 21, 2007, 02:50:22 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 21, 2007, 03:04:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
I was just about to ask if someone had gotten the game. Good impressions, darkheart. Even with the issues it sounds like technically Secret rings is more polished than Sonic next gen.
Not like that is something to be proud of, all sega would need to do is burn ET onto the Sonic disk and it still would be a better game.
I don't quite understand what you are saying...Are you saying that SR being much better in terms of technology than Sonic next gen is not something to be proud of? I'm confused...
No I'm saying that ET is a better game than Sonic Next Generation so saying it is more polished isn't saying much
.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 21, 2007, 03:40:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: pap64Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
I was just about to ask if someone had gotten the game. Good impressions, darkheart. Even with the issues it sounds like technically Secret rings is more polished than Sonic next gen.
Not like that is something to be proud of, all sega would need to do is burn ET onto the Sonic disk and it still would be a better game.
I don't quite understand what you are saying...Are you saying that SR being much better in terms of technology than Sonic next gen is not something to be proud of? I'm confused...
No I'm saying that ET is a better game than Sonic Next Generation so saying it is more polished isn't saying much
Ah I see. I mentioned Sonic Next gen since its not only the most recent Sonic game released people always mention it when they talk SR, like "After the abysmal performance of Sonic next gen", "Those hoping that SR will be exactly like Sonic next gen" and "There's hope that SR will bring back the Sonic goodness, especially after Sonic next gen destroyed it".
Post by: MarioAllStar on February 21, 2007, 04:36:20 PM
At least things are looking up for Sonic, for once. Hopefully sales will be good enough that Sega will recognize what customers are looking for. It might still be worse than the classics, but it certainly is a step. I would compare the Sonic the Hedgehog series to Nintendo in the console world. Nintendo has always turned profits, but they have decreased with each system. The Wii might be the first exception. Likewise, Sonic has always been relatively successful, but getting worse with each game. Secret Rings is the first exception.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 21, 2007, 04:40:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
I'll be waiting for that video, darkheart.
At least things are looking up for Sonic, for once. Hopefully sales will be good enough that Sega will recognize what customers are looking for. It might still be worse than the classics, but it certainly is a step. I would compare the Sonic the Hedgehog series to Nintendo in the console world. Nintendo has always turned profits, but they have decreased with each system. The Wii might be the first exception. Likewise, Sonic has always been relatively successful, but getting worse with each game. Secret Rings is the first exception.
I don't remember who said it, but that person said that one of the reasons SR was so important was if the game turned out to be good, even solid at least we could thank Nintendo for creating a system so innovative that it forced game developers to re-think their current development ideals and breathe new life into their franchises.
Even if the reviews for SR end up being mixed and split between the sevens and eights at least we can proudly say that the Wii got a really good Sonic game along with a solid idea and execution.
Post by: Koekoenutt on February 21, 2007, 04:46:45 PM
There controls are really iffy. I had problems with jumping, but I think that's due to the fact that in the tutorial world, I jumped over the spot that brings the text up to tell you what to do. As you level up, you get things that help you stride right and left, so I'm wondering if the controls will improve as you level. Leveling up in the game is kind of cool, but right now they don't really seem to make that much of a difference. It is fun when it's not frustrating, and wanted to keep playing, but my roomie kicked me off. Unfortantly, I have no energy to play it right now and learn the controls some more. I really think they could have done jumping a lot better. I can handle that it's a button, but things like pulling back on the controller and accidently hitting the button just makes you dead stop, and I think that is by far the worst thing in the game. If you get hit or accidently jump to early, you really screw yourself over and your speed. Sonic takes so long to accelerate, but then again, maybe power-ups will fix this.
I feel bad becuase I really don't have that much of an opinion on the game that you really haven't heard already. I have no idea in my mind if I'm glad I bought this game or if I should have waited for another game and maybe rented it. I guess it really depends on where the game takes me, and if power-ups improve the controls a little and do more than they are right now. A lot of missions and content though. Think it might be one of those Love-or-Hate games, but I'll update my response in this thread in a day or two when I play it more. Sorry if this doesn't help your purchase choice!
EDIT: Oh yeah, another complaint of mine, which isn't really so much a major problem, is that every level you have to press next as it confirms you what you have unlocked. To me, I think it's useless. Every mission something comes up, and I wouldn't mind it if it was just when you leveled or a new world opened, but it gets ridiculous in my opinion. You know you are unlocking a new mission when you beat one, I don't really think there is a need to have it load up a "You Unlocked a New Mission, Hit 2 to Continue" screen, just to load you again. Loading times are comparable to Pangya Golf, not that long but ALMOST long enough. Again, Just minor griefs that are my opinion, and doesn't ruin the game itself.
Post by: Kairon on February 21, 2007, 06:25:10 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 21, 2007, 06:32:57 PM
-Controls are fine. If you're having trouble, then you just need to get used to them, and you actually unlock abilities to make the turning smoother, the homing attack go further, etc. Sonic is intentionally nerfed in the beginning.
-The exp and skills are...different, but I've actually looked forward to acquiring new skills on more than one occasion already.
-The game starts slow, but after beating the tutorials (like 10 of 'em), you go right into the game.
-The stages where you just need to get to the end of the level are a goddamn thrill but seldom very challenging, which is where the other stages come in.
-The missions beyond the first one tend to be harder and can be frustrating, but guess what? The base functionality of Sonic has always been a game where one wrong step means certain death. Sonic Rush embodied this perfectly and people loved it. Why are people bemoaning it in 3D?
-This is, to date, the Wii's most graphically impressive game.
-The mini-games range from meh, to rather fun, with the exception of one I've found so far which is THE BEST MINIGAME I HAVE EVER PLAYED IN ANY GAME FEATURING MINIGAMES, EVER. Mario Party, Wario Ware, Rayman...NONE of them touch this one immensely simple yet brilliant game.
It works like this: all four players are standing around a pile of square rugs with a genie standing on top of the pile. The genie will jump and sometimes look like he's about to jump. When he jumps, make quick downward motions with the Wiimote to pull as many rugs out from the pile as possible.
Here's the kicker...if a player pulls the rug while the genie is standing on it, the genie will fall on him/her then bounce off screen, leaving the player temporarily stunned while the remaining 3 players are free to pull rugs like mad until the genie returns to the pile seconds later. This usually results in one unfortunate player being greedy and trying to pull one last rug before the genie lands on the pile, thus pulling the genie on him/herself and the cycle begins anew.
This is the fastest, most frantic and incredibly fun minigame I have ever played. It literally brings everyone playing to their feet as they attempt to pull the most rugs and just barely outdo each other.
As for my feelings on the main game...it's a bit rough, and I agree that we should have just been allowed to play more stages without reusing them so many times, but THIS, my friends, is what Sonic should have been like in 3D from the very beginning. Literally, this is IT. When you're controlling Sonic as he dashes down hallways, corridors and over beautiful ruins floating through the sky, you feel it. The speed is in YOUR hands.
It's not like SA where you held forward and Sonic eventually passed through everything and got to the end of the level, no. It's like you're REALLY in control this time, and if you f*ck up, it's your own damn fault, not the camera's and not a missed rail grab which should have happened: YOUR fault.
Secret Rings was a test game. NO question about that, just like RE4 was a test game (since it didn't involve Umbrella as the central plot like all previous games...). Sega was testing the waters with this, and the fact that it's based in a pure fantasy setting tells me this more than anything.
Remember how Sonic Adventure felt like a test game, like the creators were trying to get a feel for how they wanted to make Sonic games in true 3D, like the game was a test to see what they could do? SR feels like that in many ways, but it's more like they've narrowed it to Sonic and they're trying to figure out how to hone his speed-based gameplay to be the best that it can be, and although it ain't perfect, it's an effort which should NOT be overlooked.
Post by: Kairon on February 21, 2007, 06:50:42 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 21, 2007, 07:08:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Remember how Sonic Adventure felt like a test game, like the creators were trying to get a feel for how they wanted to make Sonic games in true 3D, like the game was a test to see what they could do? SR feels like that in many ways, but it's more like they've narrowed it to Sonic and they're trying to figure out how to hone his speed-based gameplay to be the best that it can be, and although it ain't perfect, it's an effort which should NOT be overlooked.
Never got the feeling Sonic Adventure was a test game, it felt polished with a few hiccups here and there (mainly camera), and still remains one of my favorite games of all time. In regards to SR, I will definately play it but I don't see why everyone is picking on Matt's score, it seems justified when you take into consideration the flaws.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 21, 2007, 07:12:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I don't remember who said it, but that person said that one of the reasons SR was so important was if the game turned out to be good, even solid at least we could thank Nintendo for creating a system so innovative that it forced game developers to re-think their current development ideals and breathe new life into their franchises.
That is an interesting point, and hopefully that is how Wii will be remembered.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 21, 2007, 07:25:47 PM
Quote
it was such an engrossing game that we even completely forgot about any and all boobies that were being flashed in the background.
Never played it. What was the minigame like?
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Never got the feeling Sonic Adventure was a test game, it felt polished with a few hiccups here and there (mainly camera), and still remains one of my favorite games of all time. In regards to SR, I will definately play it but I don't see why everyone is picking on Matt's score, it seems justified when you take into consideration the flaws.
SA was a test game in the sense that it had 4 different types of gameplay. Sonic and Tails with speed, Knuckles with scavenger hunting, Amy with platforming/melee combat, the robot with shooting and Big with...fishing.
To me, it felt very much like they were trying to feel around to find what worked. In SR, it feels like they KNOW what works: Sonic's speed-driven gameplay, now they're feeling around within that subset to find out what works for it, and to that end, we see leveling, skills and abilities, and sidequests. Some work, some don't.
Matt's score is justified if he's been pampered like a poodle by modern games where you seldom ever die anymore. Sonic is about break-neck speeds and evading death at every turn.
There's no satisfaction in succeeding in the completion of a level in Sonic if the threat of death wasn't upon you the whole way. In the floating ruin level, I actually had friends watching me play going "Whoa!" as I was spiraling through loops and corkscrews, evading missiles being launched at me by a giant mantaray.
I can't remember the last time I've had anyone watch what I was doing in a game and react in such a way...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 21, 2007, 07:33:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
it was such an engrossing game that we even completely forgot about any and all boobies that were being flashed in the background.
Never played it. What was the minigame like?Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Never got the feeling Sonic Adventure was a test game, it felt polished with a few hiccups here and there (mainly camera), and still remains one of my favorite games of all time. In regards to SR, I will definately play it but I don't see why everyone is picking on Matt's score, it seems justified when you take into consideration the flaws.
SA was a test game in the sense that it had 4 different types of gameplay. Sonic and Tails with speed, Knuckles with scavenger hunting, Amy with platforming/melee combat, the robot with shooting and Big with...fishing.
To me, it felt very much like they were trying to feel around to find what worked. In SR, it feels like they KNOW what works: Sonic's speed-driven gameplay, now they're feeling around within that subset to find out what works for it, and to that end, we see leveling, skills and abilities, and sidequests. Some work, some don't.
Matt's score is justified if he's been pampered like a poodle by modern games where you seldom ever die anymore. Sonic is about break-neck speeds and evading death at every turn.
There's no satisfaction in succeeding in the completion of a level in Sonic if the threat of death wasn't upon you the whole way. In the floating ruin level, I actually had friends watching me play going "Whoa!" as I was spiraling through loops and corkscrews, evading missiles being launched at me by a giant mantaray.
I can't remember the last time I've had anyone watch what I was doing in a game and react in such a way...
Ah so it is hard, so AAA title right?
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 21, 2007, 07:37:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix Ah so it is hard, so AAA title right?
Nah, but only because it doesn't reinvent the franchise and go beyond the call of duty. It's a good game, but still too sloppy in places.
Given the circumstances, it actually had the potential to be AAA (a completely new way to play Sonic games), but I never would have expected that from it.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 21, 2007, 07:40:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix Ah so it is hard, so AAA title right?
Nah, but only because it doesn't reinvent the franchise and go beyond the call of duty. It's a good game, but still too sloppy in places.
Given the circumstances, it actually had the potential to be AAA (a completely new way to play Sonic games), but I never would have expected that from it.
It is sad that most of what made Sega back in the DC era is pretty much dead, it would have been pretty amazing to see what the Sonic Team from back in the SA era could have done. Personally I found SA2 to have tons of potential but flat out hated the scavenger hunt with knuckles and I believe Rouge, I was fine with the other characters though, and in fact enjoyed them. Anyway I'll probably pick this up, if only to get the bad taste out of my mouth that Crack Down provided me (In makes GTA Vice City look revolutionary).
Post by: Kairon on February 21, 2007, 08:36:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
it was such an engrossing game that we even completely forgot about any and all boobies that were being flashed in the background.
Never played it. What was the minigame like?
I guess this is OT but...
It was called Balls In(or Out?) and it had 4 players. They were set up in teams of 2 on 2, and each player had a side of a square playing field. Each side had a goal, like a soccer goal without the nets ot back to it. You'd play rolling marbles and it was basically soccer because the smaller metal marble in the middle was what everyone was after. If you collided with it it would stick to you and you could use the analog stick to steer your marble (hopefully with the ball attached) around. You could press a button to shoot it...
But it was great because you could score in either of your opponents goalposts, so you could try to deek 'em out and suddenly shoot at their other goal post. Also, in order to steal the ball you basically had to run into it and it would come off the other player and stick to you, and since everyone was a ball, physics about your acceleration would come into play(especially when players collided, though the ball we were playing with was essentially weightless). Of course, if someone shot the ball and you were in the way, the ball would stick to you, in essence enabling blocking and passing. Sometimes you could avoid other player's steal attempts by whipping the ball around you in a 360 degree motion, as if you were a matador, your opponent was a bull, and the ball was your red cape. AND, since there were no walls anywhere and the playing field was small and suspended in the mid-air, you would often mistakenly go to steal a ball sometimes and be moving too fast such that, whether you stole the ball or not, you'd fall right off the edge! This would give the other team a couple seconds of power-play, but hopefully you'd have averted a goal.
... writing it down now it seems like not much, but let me tell you that with all the marble physics, inertia, multiplayer fun, fast-paced goals and ball-stealing antics, we played that game until the wee hours of the morning and were almost resolute to buy The Guy Game just for that one tiny minigame.
Hmm... maybe the game would be perfect for a downloadable title with online play...
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 22, 2007, 03:40:31 AM
The main thing I am wondering about is how does SR affect the overall franchise.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 22, 2007, 05:02:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix It is sad that most of what made Sega back in the DC era is pretty much dead, it would have been pretty amazing to see what the Sonic Team from back in the SA era could have done. Personally I found SA2 to have tons of potential but flat out hated the scavenger hunt with knuckles and I believe Rouge, I was fine with the other characters though, and in fact enjoyed them.
I liked the two SAs, but I prefer SA1 due to more speed-based gameplay (but that's most because the speed based camera was far more capable than the platforming camera).
Quote
Anyway I'll probably pick this up, if only to get the bad taste out of my mouth that Crack Down provided me.
That bad, eh?
Quote
I guess this is OT but...
That does sound like fun. Also sounds like it would run a bit longer than "Carpet Pull" does.
Quote
The main thing I am wondering about is how does SR affect the overall franchise.
It's kind of hard NOT to redeem it somewhat, given how terrible STH was, but it's a tough call to make because I haven't completed the game yet.
My initial reactions, though, are that I'm having a great deal more fun than I did with SA 1 or 2. There's definitely a learning curve, but once you get past that, the game comes into its own. It does seem like they went back to the original Sonic games and examined what made them great in an attempt to replicate that, but I don't know if Sonic will ever be as great as he once was without Yuji Naka somewhere at the helm.
It's my firm belief that, when people love their creations, those creations will in turn be loved by others. I don't know that the current director loves Sonic as much as Naka did, but it's clear that he has a great deal more respect for the franchise than whoever directed STH.
Post by: Maverick on February 22, 2007, 05:18:29 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 22, 2007, 06:25:40 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 22, 2007, 06:30:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
So if I didn't like SA1/2, don't care for 2D Sonic, but like F-Zero GX, and like beating Mega Man X in less than 2 hours without getting hit, is Sonic and the Excreted Rings a worthy buy?
Sounds like a rent for you, especially if you have that kind of attitude towards the series.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 22, 2007, 06:45:27 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 22, 2007, 07:12:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
So if I didn't like SA1/2, don't care for 2D Sonic, but like F-Zero GX, and like beating Mega Man X in less than 2 hours without getting hit, is Sonic and the Excreted Rings a worthy buy?
Sounds like a rent for you, especially if you have that kind of attitude towards the series.
Yeah, you kinda answered your own question there, Pro.
However, liking F-Zero GX means you must have a bit of a masochistic streak and that repeatedly failing a mission by not performing 100% perfect is not something which would dissuade you from playing a game. Though it doesn't feature the same difficulty (at least not yet), SR does offer many of those kinds of situations.
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Sonic is a failed mascot
I said the same thing about Dr. Mario, Game and Watch and Pichu but some assclown decided they'd be alright for SSBM.
But it's not Sonic who has failed: it's Sega. Even in the two SA games, there was a lot they did right which was genuinely enjoyable, it's just that there's also a lot they did wrong which wasn't fun at all.
Mario transitioned well to 3D. Sonic just didn't, but with SR, that might finally be changing.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 22, 2007, 08:13:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Maverick
I didn't think Crackdown was THAT bad (from the demo anyway). Seemed fun, just kind of shallow.
It is shallow, it honestly makes Saint's Row look innovative. The basic formula is this:
1. Level up by shooting people or throwing stuff at people
2. Jump from buildings (is fun but gets old)
3. Break into head quarters of gang leader X and kill him/her
4. Do some poor side quests (lots of racing)
5. Rinse and repeat.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 22, 2007, 10:42:43 AM
I get more gaming satisfaction from the accomplishment of legitimate challenges through the development and application of SKILL. Awareness, foresight, judgement, and quick reflexes are the ingredients for this soup.
Post by: Maverick on February 22, 2007, 11:59:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Maverick
I didn't think Crackdown was THAT bad (from the demo anyway). Seemed fun, just kind of shallow.
It is shallow, it honestly makes Saint's Row look innovative. The basic formula is this:
1. Level up by shooting people or throwing stuff at people
2. Jump from buildings (is fun but gets old)
3. Break into head quarters of gang leader X and kill him/her
4. Do some poor side quests (lots of racing)
5. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah I can see how it would get old after awhile. The only reason most people bought it anyways was for Halo 3 Beta.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 22, 2007, 12:04:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MaverickQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Maverick
I didn't think Crackdown was THAT bad (from the demo anyway). Seemed fun, just kind of shallow.
It is shallow, it honestly makes Saint's Row look innovative. The basic formula is this:
1. Level up by shooting people or throwing stuff at people
2. Jump from buildings (is fun but gets old)
3. Break into head quarters of gang leader X and kill him/her
4. Do some poor side quests (lots of racing)
5. Rinse and repeat.
Yeah I can see how it would get old after awhile. The only reason most people bought it anyways was for Halo 3 Beta.
Well i was the few who bought it because it looked interesting (I really do not like Halo at all).
Post by: Maverick on February 22, 2007, 12:20:01 PM
Post by: Magik on February 22, 2007, 12:21:34 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 22, 2007, 12:22:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Magik
Crackdown is actually a really fun game ESPECIALLY when playing Co-Op.
If you like repetitive games or play in short bursts I guess, though I have not tried co-op.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 22, 2007, 01:01:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
I get more gaming satisfaction from the accomplishment of legitimate challenges through the development and application of SKILL. Awareness, foresight, judgement, and quick reflexes are the ingredients for this soup.
It's fair to say that is definitely true, but if you dislike Sonic that much, I'd advise renting the game before buying it.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 22, 2007, 01:04:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
I get more gaming satisfaction from the accomplishment of legitimate challenges through the development and application of SKILL. Awareness, foresight, judgement, and quick reflexes are the ingredients for this soup.
It's fair to say that is definitely true, but if you dislike Sonic that much, I'd advise renting the game before buying it.
What if you love Sonic Adventure though?
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 22, 2007, 01:07:34 PM
I just mean disliking the character of Sonic in general, not his games, which Pro made quite clear that he did.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 22, 2007, 03:34:06 PM
So far, it's still sealed, and not all that fun.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on February 22, 2007, 03:51:38 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 22, 2007, 05:14:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Too late, I just bought it along with Wii Play.
Great, now it's on my head if you don't like it...
Just remember that it starts slow, but once you hit level 10 and start acquiring more upgrades, the game picks up the pace a great deal.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 23, 2007, 01:55:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Too late, I just bought it along with Wii Play.
Great, now it's on my head if you don't like it...
Just remember that it starts slow, but once you hit level 10 and start acquiring more upgrades, the game picks up the pace a great deal.
I can picture it now....
"SONIC IS MADE OF PHAIL. And its all S_B's fault."
Post by: Adrock on February 23, 2007, 04:52:46 AM
Post by: Caterkiller on February 23, 2007, 04:54:22 AM
From the reviews I thought I would be replaying the exact stage over and over 10 or so times. But in alot ofthe missions, I am sent to completely new areas of that level which is really nice. It will take some getting use to, but I am enjoying myself for now. Though not until I beat it will I give my full review.
Off to play.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 23, 2007, 05:34:08 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 23, 2007, 05:41:22 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 23, 2007, 07:33:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
That "repeating stages for other goals" thing sounds kinda like Mario 64 and Sunshine to me.
That's actually pretty spot-on, now that I think about it...
In M64, the first run through to acquire a star was generally the easiest while the later stars could be much more difficult to acquire.
What SR lacks is the "overworld" with its own set of secrets and interesting areas to explore.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 23, 2007, 09:13:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
That "repeating stages for other goals" thing sounds kinda like Mario 64 and Sunshine to me.
That's actually pretty spot-on, now that I think about it...
In M64, the first run through to acquire a star was generally the easiest while the later stars could be much more difficult to acquire.
What SR lacks is the "overworld" with its own set of secrets and interesting areas to explore.
That is what I liked about Sonic Adventure, the overworld was great. BTW I did pick up SR last night, haven't gotten around to playing it, but I'm holing Smash personally responsible for the quality of the game
.
Post by: Koekoenutt on February 23, 2007, 10:09:19 AM
I still feel like the controls could have been worked out a lot more. I own excite truck, and really had no problem with controls in the game, actually loved them. The controls do work, and after you do get the feel for them it isn't as bad.. but I really do feel they could have put more thought into. The controls in my opinion really don't flow to well with each other, and easily can make yourself slow down greatly.. Wouldn't be a problem if your speed caught up good, but it really doesn't. I'm slightly disappointed with some of the missions and the game itself, but for being a 3D sonic game, it's definatly pretty good. The average reviews definatly hit it on the spot, and I'm glad I have the game to hold me over till the next big Wii title.. Still wish that they worked on this title a little more though and becuase of this, kind of ruins parts of the game for me. Sometimes I just can't help myself but to ask why the developers would do such a thing here and there, but it is really easy to look passed.
My roommate is iffy about the game, but slightly enjoys it. My one friend who is more into XBox360 hated it and couldn't even stand the controls for a second. My other friend that stopped by last night played it for an hour or two, and said he really enjoyed it and was thinking of buying it when he got himself a Wii. In my opinion, I still think this is a Love-or-Hate game for most people. A lot of people have been looking forward to it, and it beats any new Sonic out of the water, so it's pretty easy to love, but doesn't make it 9-10/10 game.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 23, 2007, 10:22:05 AM
Post by: Koekoenutt on February 23, 2007, 11:45:45 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 23, 2007, 02:18:29 PM
HOW ON EARTH DID THE ANALOG STICK SURVIVE THIS LONG
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 23, 2007, 04:50:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666 HOW ON EARTH DID THE ANALOG STICK SURVIVE THIS LONG
By enough violent, teen-centric games using it.
I showed the little brother of a friend of mine the Godfather video of the thug player using the Wiimote and nunchuck to control the thug on screen and he had what I called a "teenagergasm". Seriously, as the guy was roughing up people with the Wiimote, the kid was saying "OMG!!! THAT'S AWESOME!!!!!"
As soon as the Wiimote sees widespread use in violent games, I guarantee we'll see the hardcore teen gamers changing their tunes dramatically.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 09:39:09 AM
So as of now I would even go as far to say Matt at IGN was TOO generous with his sccore because the game feels clunky and unfinished.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 24, 2007, 10:36:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I put in about 3 hrs last night into SR and I have to say I am a tad bit disappointed. The game has flashes of promise but it is soon ended by the HORRID controls (I especially hate back up, it feels clunky and not intuitive what so ever). In addition to that I feel like I'm constantly on rails, I feel almost claustrophobic. The controls while running feels clunky as well, moving from side to side is awkward, and definitely not as tight as a game like Excite Truck. Finally the level design has, once again, flashes of brilliance but poor design choices when it comes to placing obstacles. Many of the obstacles feel thrown in for the sake of having an obstacle,and some the only reason they are an obstacle is because you can't see them because of poor camera angles. Granted you can finally memorize them, but like many older games they feel randomly placed to make things "hard".
So as of now I would even go as far to say Matt at IGN was TOO generous with his sccore because the game feels clunky and unfinished.
The problem isn't the game. The problem is that YOU SUCK...
Just kidding there
.This does bring out a point about reviewing Wii games...I'll post about it in a bit.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 10:45:14 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 24, 2007, 11:34:09 AM
Anyways, 8+ material from me...
Post by: Adrock on February 24, 2007, 11:42:53 AM
And the voice acting is terrible... like all of them. Also, the main theme challenges the DK Rap in terms of utter crappiness. Here I thought that was impossible. "Seven rings in hand..." Kill yourself...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 01:33:12 PM
Not to mention the story feels utterly unconnected to what is going on, like something happening in a cut scene and the next thing you know you are doing pointless challenges until you open up a boss or some level. Maybe people are right, Nintendo and Wii owners don't know what a good game is anymore and instead eat up Red Steel and this game because they don't know any better. The game is clunky and feels disconnected, like it is a collection of Sonic Mini Games with some bosses thrown in. At least it is better than Sonic for Xbox 360 but that isn't saying much. In the near future I will probably write a review to go a bit more in depth but I honestly don't see why people like the game so much, it is a competent but severly flawed title that feels low budget in many ways.
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 01:47:29 PM
I don't know, this was my first actual Sonic game (the one on my VC for display purposes doesn't count) and I didn't have ANY expectations going in. But I'm enjoying it a lot, and so far have 4 worlds unlocked (about halfway through) and sincerely hope the game doesn't get too difficult so I can beat it.
This game is Like Excite Truck with WAAAAY more interesting goals and design, and slightly worse controls.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 01:48:46 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 24, 2007, 02:01:54 PM
Insult get... =\
Maybe we don't go in with insanely high expectations (which is what you should avoid for ALL games, really) and are having fun with what is the best attempt at Sonic in 3D yet...
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 02:03:38 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 02:10:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Maybe people are right, Nintendo and Wii owners don't know what a good game is anymore and instead eat up Red Steel and this game because they don't know any better."
Insult get... =\
Maybe we don't go in with insanely high expectations (which is what you should avoid for ALL games, really) and are having fun with what is the best attempt at Sonic in 3D yet...
Trust me I had no high expectations, the only reason I purchased it is because Smash recommended it, up until then I was on the fence. To say I was dissapointed shows how poorly I view the game!
Post by: Caliban on February 24, 2007, 02:24:06 PM
I've put the language set to Japanese with english subtitles. Somehow it is alot less distracting during gameplay because I ignore what she's saying and I don't have time to read because I'm focused on the action. I wish they had other language options other than JAP and ENG.
Why are there 4 rings [Ring A, B(?), C(?), D(?)] to customize from? I checked the manual but I didn't see anything, maybe I missed it.
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 02:44:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Maybe people are right, Nintendo and Wii owners don't know what a good game is anymore and instead eat up Red Steel and this game because they don't know any better."
Insult get... =\
Maybe we don't go in with insanely high expectations (which is what you should avoid for ALL games, really) and are having fun with what is the best attempt at Sonic in 3D yet...
Trust me I had no high expectations, the only reason I purchased it is because Smash recommended it, up until then I was on the fence. To say I was dissapointed shows how poorly I view the game!
Then blame Smash, not Nintendo fans!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on February 24, 2007, 02:47:36 PM
QuoteThat would make more sense coming from you if you hadn't just called Twilight Princess one of the best games ever. Plus you don't like F-Zero GX. That's an automatic fail.
Maybe people are right, Nintendo and Wii owners don't know what a good game is anymore and instead eat up Red Steel and this game because they don't know any better.
Your opinion of Super Mario Bros 3 makes up for it, though
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 02:49:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteThat would make more sense coming from you if you hadn't just called Twilight Princess one of the best games ever. Plus you don't like F-Zero GX. That's an automatic fail.
Maybe people are right, Nintendo and Wii owners don't know what a good game is anymore and instead eat up Red Steel and this game because they don't know any better.
Your opinion of Super Mario Bros 3 makes up for it, though
QFT
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 24, 2007, 03:21:28 PM
And I agree with everyone else your comment about Nintendo fas was unfair and uncalled for. Simply because they liked a game you didn't it doesn't mean they don't know any better. Its called "BEING SUBJECTIVE", meaning that what may be crap for you may be excellent to someone else.
To be blunt, it sounds like you are trying to vent your frustration on us and frankly, its nobody fault. You didn't like the game that's fine. You have the right to say you didn't like it, just like its everyone else's right to disagree with it.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 05:50:35 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 05:52:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteThat would make more sense coming from you if you hadn't just called Twilight Princess one of the best games ever. Plus you don't like F-Zero GX. That's an automatic fail.
Maybe people are right, Nintendo and Wii owners don't know what a good game is anymore and instead eat up Red Steel and this game because they don't know any better.
Your opinion of Super Mario Bros 3 makes up for it, though
If you want me to go down the list and dissect why TP blows SR out of the water, I will. The odd thing about TP is that most critics and yes people who have played it agree with me that it is a great game. Back more to point it is a bit unfair to compare my opinion on TP since it is nothing like the unpolished material that is Red Steel and SR. If you want I could compare SR with TP via quality though.
To be blunt, Sonic and the Secret Rings feels rushed, it has no real connection between the challenges and worlds besides random cutscenes, and instead feels like a bunch of pieces thrown together by a team that was trying to push it out the door. That is a fact as far as I'm concerned, just look at how the stages are handled and how unlocking various items is achieved, it feels more like Sonic and the Secret Challenges then a cohesive unit or adventure. Smash kind of glossed over this aspect but I feel it is important to this argument there is no over world or anything to tighten up the appearance of loose ends, heck even the 2D Sonics felt more like a cohesive packaged.
What I find even more staggering is that Smash would criticize SA for feeling on rails when Secret Ring has it in Spades (well at least SA made sense in its design). SR would probably have made more sense if Sonic rode around in the Sonic mobile or something, at least using the Wiimote as a steering wheel would seem a bit more intuitive. Not to mention it has some of the lamest most unimaginative obstacle placements around, and some very unintuitive actions like pulling up on the Wiimote to make Sonic go backwards in order to get something (sometimes it is the only way) along with fighting the camera angle at the same time makes for a very broken experience.
WHat I find most odd about this topic is that I am criticized for stating how low people's expectations are when it comes to Wii systems, yet these same people harpoon someone like Matt because he didn't like "X" game. Do I think Nintendo fans (me included) have good taste? Yes but I also think we can get desperate if we don't experience other systems, and our standards do get lowered when it comes to 3rd party games because we've been longing for them, myself included. I want to see a true innovation come out of 3rd parties but on the flip side I don't think praising something like SR is going to get it. The game could be done on the PS3 and is nothing more than a tilt and tumble version of Sonic.
To conclude, why have I gotten so pumped up about SR? Well I think it is a sad state when Wii owners feel the need to praise a game like Sonic (basically calling for more tilt based games) yet rip a game like TP, which makes no logical sense to me. Looking at posts lately you would think TP was overrated crap and Secret Rings is a "flawed" but amazingly fun game. I'm sorry but that looks bad, regardless if that is the message some here meant to convey.
P.S. I don't like any of the Fzero games, I don't like the racing genre in general.
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 06:12:19 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 06:14:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
No one is praising Sonis controls. They're adapting to it and claiming that they aren't that rough, but I haven't seen anyone praising the controls. It's the concept of the game that excites me at least: a corridor runner/platformer! Star Fox 64 at high speed and with less shooting!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Also known as Sonic Tilt and Tumblewii.
If Star Fox turns out like Sonic I will scream, I do not want to fly an arwing by tilting the controller while avoiding gigantic rocks randomly placed around corners to kill me. Speaking of Star Fox I felt the controls broke the DS version a bit as well. I guess that is why I feel that you should use the Wii's innovation when you need to, in order to heighten the experience and immersion but it should be left out when things could be done much more intuitively with a joystick. Just because you make a Wii game doesn't mean you have to tack on controls in games that detract from enjoyment. For the heck of it I'm going to let my sister play Sonic and see what she thinks, she loved Excite Truck so we'll see. Speaking of Excite Truck, even though I love the game I hope they don't tilt and tumble every racer out there, the Wiimote has so much more potential.
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 06:17:27 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on February 24, 2007, 06:24:42 PM
Though you did somewhat clarify by saying third party games.
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 06:25:50 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 24, 2007, 06:27:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteThat would make more sense coming from you if you hadn't just called Twilight Princess one of the best games ever. Plus you don't like F-Zero GX. That's an automatic fail.
Maybe people are right, Nintendo and Wii owners don't know what a good game is anymore and instead eat up Red Steel and this game because they don't know any better.
Your opinion of Super Mario Bros 3 makes up for it, though
If you want me to go down the list and dissect why TP blows SR out of the water, I will. The odd thing about TP is that most critics and yes people who have played it agree with me that it is a great game. Back more to point it is a bit unfair to compare my opinion on TP since it is nothing like the unpolished material that is Red Steel and SR. If you want I could compare SR with TP via quality though.
To be blunt, Sonic and the Secret Rings feels rushed, it has no real connection between the challenges and worlds besides random cutscenes, and instead feels like a bunch of pieces thrown together by a team that was trying to push it out the door. That is a fact as far as I'm concerned, just look at how the stages are handled and how unlocking various items is achieved, it feels more like Sonic and the Secret Challenges then a cohesive unit or adventure. Smash kind of glossed over this aspect but I feel it is important to this argument there is no over world or anything to tighten up the appearance of loose ends, heck even the 2D Sonics felt more like a cohesive packaged.
What I find even more staggering is that Smash would criticize SA for feeling on rails when Secret Ring has it in Spades (well at least SA made sense in its design). SR would probably have made more sense if Sonic rode around in the Sonic mobile or something, at least using the Wiimote as a steering wheel would seem a bit more intuitive. Not to mention it has some of the lamest most unimaginative obstacle placements around, and some very unintuitive actions like pulling up on the Wiimote to make Sonic go backwards in order to get something (sometimes it is the only way) along with fighting the camera angle at the same time makes for a very broken experience.
WHat I find most odd about this topic is that I am criticized for stating how low people's expectations are when it comes to Wii systems, yet these same people harpoon someone like Matt because he didn't like "X" game. Do I think Nintendo fans (me included) have good taste? Yes but I also think we can get desperate if we don't experience other systems, and our standards do get lowered when it comes to 3rd party games because we've been longing for them, myself included. I want to see a true innovation come out of 3rd parties but on the flip side I don't think praising something like SR is going to get it. The game could be done on the PS3 and is nothing more than a tilt and tumble version of Sonic.
To conclude, why have I gotten so pumped up about SR? Well I think it is a sad state when Wii owners feel the need to praise a game like Sonic (basically calling for more tilt based games) yet rip a game like TP, which makes no logical sense to me. Looking at posts lately you would think TP was overrated crap and Secret Rings is a "flawed" but amazingly fun game. I'm sorry but that looks bad, regardless if that is the message some here meant to convey.
P.S. I don't like any of the Fzero games, I don't like the racing genre in general.
First of all, you are acting VERY touchy about this.
It's OK to feel disappointed with SR, but it isn't cool that you are criticizing everyone else for liking the game and even questioning their taste in games.
The general agreement that even with faults SR is a good game, meaning that some people WILL enjoy it, some more than others. It's a fact. It may not be a triple A title, but at least it is worth renting or if you are a big fan a buy.
Second, I honestly don't see ANYONE harping TP like you mentioned. The ONLY one I've seen around bashing the game is Pro 666, who is constantly saying "TP is fan service!". But other than that, the game was praised like it was the second coming of Christ, so why are you so uppity about that.
And finally, I am getting sick and tired of your "Nintendo fans are a pitiful bunch" claim. I would develop that further, but I will save that for the other thread.
Seriously, why are you acting this way? You didn't like the game, others did. Why the act?
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 06:31:38 PM
TP was almost as disjointed as Sonic, in my opinion. And it was almost as unfulfilling in promise as wind waker.
Yeah, I said it!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: King of Twitch on February 24, 2007, 06:35:02 PM
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 06:43:52 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 06:52:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Hey. I'll bash TP willingly. I just haven't had the time or energy to do so.... "best zelda ever" PAH!!!
TP was almost as disjointed as Sonic, in my opinion. And it was almost as unfulfilling in promise as wind waker.
Yeah, I said it!
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
That makes no sense whatsoever, comparing Zelda's interconnected world with Sonic and the SR "select" a challenge overlay is ridiculous. See that is why I feel it is a tad bit dangerous to start praising Sonic so much. Don't get me wrong I can see how the game is fun (I've enjoyed parts of it), but to get all the praise it is getting is mind boggling. Most games I can understand why people praise them so much even if I may not like it, but games like Sonic or Red Steel I do not understand, both feel unfinished in one way or another. They may be fun but they have so many flaws giving them such praise as 8ish scores (more so with Sonic) is odd and makes me wonder if we are so desparate for 3rd parties we will grasp onto anything and make it a very good game because we want more 3rd party games or are in a drought.
To Pap, if you read what I said I included myself in talking about Nintendo fans and I seen the same things happen with N64 and even the NDS. It seems us as Nintendo fans (probably will be the case with PS3 as well now that it is hurting) tend to overpraise 3rd party games because we haven't gotten many in the past. I'll admit I was harsh with my first statement about Nintendo fans not having good taste, though I do think we tend to grasp onto things more tightly when so few come around. Sonic is a slightly above average 3rd party game in a drought season, and it is understandable why it is possible some could overpraise it. Personally I find a game like SR to be dangerous in its use of the Wiimote, and do not want to see this trend, so that is also fueling my dissention amongst the masses here.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 07:13:32 PM
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 07:16:34 PM
But Sonic is in a genre all its own, and is getting hammer by the critics(what did IGN give it? 6.9?). It's also MUCH smaller in scope as a game compared to the previous overrated fanboi-propped-up games. Sonic and the Secret Rings is easy for its adopters to love because its simplicity allows you to concentrate on the fun portions instead of getting bogged down in the unfun portions (unlike Geist's long levels and not-quite-satisfying puzzles, or replaying ED 3 times without ever feeling any real challenge).
The praise that sonic gets is much more like the praise that games like Excite Truck gets than the support that Rayman Raving Rabbids got from Nintendo fans.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
P.S. One day, I'll write my big critique on Zelda: TP, and then all my minor disappointments with the game will be laid out for all to see...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 07:22:43 PM
Post by: Kairon on February 24, 2007, 07:38:27 PM
But I've always admired the reusage of stages and assets because they're re-examining the same location but with a different theme in mind. One of the things I liked most about Mario Sunshine (and Mario 64 before it) was how each stage's "threads," or paths to a star, were integrated and coiled together in a near perfect manner. Much like one star in SMS had the entire level virtually covered in paint, one challenge in Sonic and the Secret Rings takes a level, reorganizes enemies and items to provide appropriate challenges, and even opens up new paths through a level. In one level in Dino land, I had to take each of four objects to the proper location... and these were randomized each playthrough. I had to use the new paths this challenge implemented in the level to loop around and locate where in the level loop each object needed to be delivered.
So I guess, in that sense, I admire the revisiting of levels under different constraints. I can definitely understand how you'd claim they were being "lazy," but have you ever bothered to notice how these revisits enable them to create a more traditional hardcore, goal-oriented experience? In many ways, Sonic Rings seems a treat for "hardcore" players who love a twitchy impossible challenge.
AND, have you bothered to think that this obsession with content, "more-levels-more-story-more-bosses-more-playtime-more-more-more-more" is in some ways responsible for the rising cost of games and the deviation from abstract setups that concentrate on gameplay experiences? In a way, this stuff needs to be pointed out as NOT necessary. Especially for old-school, abstract franchises like Sonic, what we don't need is story (the romance with a HUMAN in Sonic Next-Gen for example...), what we don't need is vehicle combat (Riders?), what we don't need is attitude or cultural pandering (Shadow???)...
What we don't need are more and more features added just to justify a good game's existence... We just need the game. We just need Tetris. We just need Sonic running fast.
And the sooner Sega, and other developers recognize the myth that "content is king," the sooner they can start feeling free to experiment with solid gameplay... not at the EXPENSE of content (because content is STILL important, just not the be-all-and-end-all), but at least independent of content restrictions.
... and on a side note ... even though I'm not a sonic fan ... I HATED the modern day sterilized neo-tokyo overworld's in the last couple sonic games ...
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 24, 2007, 09:03:14 PM
When it pertains to SR, some of the challenges seem very forced and not all that much fun, just, well tedious. I've never been big on "Collect all the coins", or "blow up such and such" unless it is well integrated into a platformer. In addition to that I feel the is too much on rails for its own good, more than once I wanted to explore and it forced me down a predetermined track. So ok with all that said I'll admit maybe I was bit too harsh, but my opinion still stands that I hope the tilt features aren't utilized as a main form of control and instead companies go for the more intuitive route. I would have much rather seen a game that handled the "fast" stages like Sonic Adventure did though, those were some awesome designs that handled the "rails" quite well you felt like you were free to explore even if at times it was an illusion (Gosh I need to play that game again).
P.S. I actually like the voice work in the game lol. It is 50xs better than Elebits and it really isn't that bad, kind of like Sonic Adventure.
Post by: zakkiel on February 25, 2007, 03:23:29 AM
QuoteHuh? I can see what this might mean as a criticism of a platformer built around speed (lots of forced stops, maybe) but of Zelda? It's like complaining about Goldeneye's leveling treadmill. It just makes no sense, Captain!
TP was almost as disjointed as Sonic, in my opinion.
Post by: Amodaus1 on February 25, 2007, 03:30:19 AM
Is it the best 3D zelda? i think so.
Can you compare Sonic to Zelda? No, they're not the same type of game. Different audience, different style. I'm a sonic hater though, so thats why i'm just painting them as different rather than creating an arguement, cause i'll just end up bashing sonic, because i think sonic games suck, period. Yes, even the genesis ones.
Post by: Kairon on February 25, 2007, 06:25:15 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 25, 2007, 01:18:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I played the game for a bit longer and I can say my opinion has improved a bit (I may give it a 7/10 now), I still don't like the back up controls but I'm getting the hang of the turning and jumping, not to mention later worlds are better (Dinosaur world was the one I disliked the most even though I love dinos!). In regards to content, I personally prefer a more complex game every now and then along with more casual games.
I was actually going to suggest that you put a bit more time into it because not only do the controls literally become better with upgrades but they do take time to properly learn.
I'm on the 5th world, I believe, and I find that the gameplay comes to the point where you NEED to use his jump stop to force Sonic to the ground so he can jump and clear another obstacle.
Once you combine the mid-air forward charge with the jump cancel, it makes for some very interesting terrain which you must cover. It begins to require some pretty interesting timing on the part of the player to leap over a chasm, jump cancel onto another platform, then leap off, charge, jump cancel onto the next platform.
It's quite satisfying to pull off, I must admit, and while I haven't finished the game yet, I've yet to have any severe control issues which didn't lessen as I became better at the game.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 26, 2007, 08:55:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix I actually like...the game (Sonic and the Secret Rings) lol. It is 50xs better than Elebits...
MuAHAHAHAHA!
Post by: vudu on February 26, 2007, 09:38:10 AM
QuoteMuAHAHAHAHA!
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I ... dr ... i ... n ... k ... ... p... ee.
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 26, 2007, 09:44:34 AM
2. VG loves Elebits and dislikes SR, hence why the comparison is meant to tease her.
3. How do you know I DON'T drink pee? I might be throwing back a bottle of golden nectar as I'm typing this...
Post by: vudu on February 26, 2007, 09:52:54 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 26, 2007, 12:36:23 PM
Post by: therat on February 26, 2007, 04:06:14 PM
Post by: therat on February 26, 2007, 04:06:19 PM
Post by: Ceric on February 27, 2007, 03:57:10 AM
Post by: Koekoenutt on February 27, 2007, 05:20:52 AM
Post by: Koekoenutt on March 01, 2007, 03:49:29 PM
Post by: Kairon on March 01, 2007, 04:10:51 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 01, 2007, 04:18:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Definitely hardcore. I AM DEAD SET on NOT replaying this game for any sort of achivements at all after(if) I beat it. For fun and speed, yes. But I value my sanity far too much to delude myself into thinking I can survive hardcore challenges like the one you just described.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I think you mean cheap and poorly designed challenges instead of hardcore.
Post by: GioGio on March 01, 2007, 04:29:05 PM
The only really annoying challenge was the flying dragon-ruins-thing level. I probably won't replay that area anytime soon, but I really loved all the other worlds. It was like a crazy rollar coaster from Hell, heh.
Post by: Kairon on March 01, 2007, 04:41:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Definitely hardcore. I AM DEAD SET on NOT replaying this game for any sort of achivements at all after(if) I beat it. For fun and speed, yes. But I value my sanity far too much to delude myself into thinking I can survive hardcore challenges like the one you just described.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I think you mean cheap and poorly designed challenges instead of hardcore.
*glances at Kid Icarus*
Aren't they the same thing?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Koekoenutt on March 01, 2007, 05:20:43 PM
The first time I did the Djinn fight I had problems with for some reason when I went to slow mode in one-on-one part, I would flick the controller and it wouldn't pick it up.. Got really frustrated but was actually pretty easy boss for being like the last guy. I thought the the Ifrit boss in Evil Foundry was probably the hardest and most frustrating boss in the game, and making use of your brake is really needed. I haven't done any of the Head-To-Head missions in any but the first world yet either. The one in the Dinosaur Jungle level really pissed me off with those cacti in the middle and really just pissed me off, so I haven't tried any of the other ones yet. I've beaten all the missions so far up until the last boss besides the Head-To-Heads and that No Coin one in Pirate Bay. Im going to try to finish the rest, but I'm definatly trading this game in for C&C 3 when it comes out, since I have no money and need to trade in a game to up my GameStop credit on my card. Played the Demo the other day and think that will be my next big computer game, already bored of Company of Heroes. Although March holds some good titles for the Wii, but I might hold off until Super Paper Mario for a new Wii game. Hopefully by that time I will have a job again, lol.
Post by: Kairon on March 01, 2007, 05:36:04 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 01, 2007, 06:40:46 PM
I've been playing more of it (since I had to put it down for a busy week) and I must say the game ranges from times which are tedious to times which are absolutely brilliant.
When Sonic is moving full clip and you're dodging large obstacles and leaping over spikes, just barely avoiding these hazards, the game is awesome. The speed is what makes this game great, everything else is just details (though the party games are better than most give them credit for).
Post by: GioGio on March 01, 2007, 06:54:37 PM
You can still collect rings during zero-ring missions, you just need to loose them before the goal.
Post by: Koekoenutt on March 01, 2007, 07:08:53 PM
GioGio, I understand that and actually do that for the rest of those type of missions. It's just the end of the one on Pirate Bay where you can't get hurt and there are a lot of coins. Have to constantly cancel jump and make sure you are PERFECT. Then you fall off the edge on the left so you hit the button that makes you spring into the Goal Line without getting any coins. I know exactly what to do, and it's frustrating that I can't pull it off. I just can't do that part in the Pirate Bay World, and think it was sloppy and lazy level design.
Post by: D_MaN87 on March 03, 2007, 08:46:35 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 03, 2007, 09:03:41 AM
It gets better once you get more upgrades, but I will say that rail grinding feels a bit awkward. I'd rather just forgo rails entirely.
Frankly, I'd love it if this game was nothing more than 10 straight hours of running forward and dodging sh*t. Luckily, I'm finding it's only a few of the other missions which don't provide this sort of gameplay.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 03, 2007, 09:47:24 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 03, 2007, 05:01:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Crash Bandicoot is crying.
Oh yeah, forgot that Crash Bandicoot had those fun chase scenes...
Post by: ShyGuy on March 04, 2007, 06:56:15 PM
I've never been a huge Sonic fan, but this is probably the 3D Sonic I have played.
Post by: Ages on March 07, 2007, 08:07:41 PM
Post by: Svevan on March 07, 2007, 10:54:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
I'm giving Sonic a 4.5 and that's that.
Hah, I was joking when I posted that too.
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 15, 2007, 02:19:00 PM
SR was only out for one week in Feb. but still only sold 66,750 copies.
I think that's more than STH on the 360/PS3 sold, but it still speaks volumes about how untrusting people are of Sonic games after crap like STH, Shadow, etc.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 15, 2007, 02:22:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Looks like Sonic is pretty close to dead after all...
SR was only out for one week in Feb. but still only sold 66,750 copies.
I think that's more than STH on the 360/PS3 sold, but it still speaks volumes about how untrusting people are of Sonic games after crap like STH, Shadow, etc.
Even with poor sales, that shouldn't stop Sega from trying to bleed Sonic dry (or continue improving his adventures on the Wii).
I wouldn't be surprised if after SR they are already working on another Sonic game.
Post by: Ceric on March 15, 2007, 02:50:20 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 15, 2007, 04:47:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
If they just set an attack button, reverse button, an alternate way to just slide, and pull the camera back when you are moving in reverse. The game be twice as good and I like it for the most part.
And dropping tilt controls for traditional analog joystick controls using the WIimote for some other innovative things would make for the perfect Sonic.
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 15, 2007, 05:49:38 PM
Post by: Ceric on March 20, 2007, 05:56:56 AM
Welp, after doing a lot of leveling to beat a level that was getting me stuck I crossed the threshold of understanding in this game.
Last night I went from online having 2 World rings to have 6 World Rings in a single sitting and beating everything I have unlocked except 3 stages. (The Pirate Hands Off is insane at the end...) For 2 of though I don't think it will take long I just had to go to bed.
Though I did peek at the skill faq and I'm sort of sad there isn't anything that will attract rings towards me or let me use soul instead of rings.
Edit:
Also I am finding that I've never had to use any of the soul abilities in regular play really. Its just more trouble then its worth when I can just slide through the obstacle instead.
