Post by: LandStalkerNigel on January 02, 2007, 06:12:06 AM
I thought it was the wierdest thing when my friend came over with his GC version. I simply wanted to try out the controller but when i saw the intro, i thought something was wrong and I was going crazy. But then i looked at the map and immediately figured out what was going on.
Why the flip? Anyone know?
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 02, 2007, 06:16:24 AM
It was a dumb move, considering that the sword control on the Wiimote doesn't directly control Link's sword anyway.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2007, 07:01:49 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 02, 2007, 07:05:15 AM
I think it was stupid. In the Cube version Death Mountain and Karkariko Village are in approximate relation to Hyrule Castle town as they are in Ocarina of Time. Link's village is about where the Kokiri Village was and I think Lake Hylia and Zora's Domain are in the same place as well (though for some reason the map in my head has these locations reversed). I think clearly the idea was to demonstrate that it's the same Hyrule as in Ocarina of Time, though at a different time period. Reversing the whole game kinda f*cks that up and it bothers me that Nintendo didn't care enough to preserve the original design in the Wii version. More evidence in regards to what the "real" version is, even though thankfully both versions turned out fantastic.
I imagine it was a big pain in the ass to do that. They had to change references to east and west and right and left as well. And as Smash_Brother mentioned there's really no point in making sure the hands match up for a gesture based sword swing anyway.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2007, 07:08:19 AM
YOU FORGOT SHIELD.
SHIELD.
AS I BASH THE ENEMY WITH A LEFT CROSS
KAPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW
Post by: JonLeung on January 02, 2007, 07:08:41 AM
All the complaining about the left/right switch, the porting from the GameCube, the tacking on of Wii controls, and the delays, all made me forget that there's a ZELDA GAME beyond all that. I'm a big Zelda fan and it wasn't until a week before the Wii came out before I remembered that. "Oh, yeah, I have a Zelda game to look forward to!" I preordered it, of course, but the complaints made me forget about what the game is, what's there, and that's what's important.
You guys are like the dads who see a kid's report card and go "Oh, just 98%? What happened to the other 2%?" Stop seeing the bad side of things already. The game is no less of one because east is west, it's also a GameCube game, controls were not originally implemened, and that it came out a month and a half ago instead of a year and a half ago. Sheesh.
And I say we call it the left/right switch or something like that (if we have a need to keep discussing it) because reversed sounds like you go through the thing backwards, which you don't.
Anyway, it is kind of funny...as someone pointed out, since enemies were originally right-handed, now it looks like Link, the sole right-handed warrior, is trying to rid the world of lefties. And no, I have nothing against lefties.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 02, 2007, 07:09:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
But it would be just a smidgen odd to use anal-log movement AND swing the sword on the Nunchuck (left hand) and use the shield thrust on the remote (right hand).
Then I would have suggested they axe the shield thrust.
I seldom ever used it as a move anyway and never found it ESSENTIAL at any point in the game.
I suggest axing it because doing so would have been worth it to keep the relative locations of Lake Hylia, Kakariko Village, etc. from OoT.
Also, lefties playing TP on the Wii are screwed as well.
Post by: Requiem on January 02, 2007, 07:10:40 AM
That means it'll be out christmas 2008!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2007, 07:13:07 AM
Replace with: West" Click OK.
Yeah, development was pretty difficult.
Post by: Plugabugz on January 02, 2007, 07:14:40 AM
How so? I've had no problem playing the majority of games (remote left, nunchuck right).
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2007, 07:16:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
But it would be just a smidgen odd to use anal-log movement AND swing the sword on the Nunchuck (left hand) and use the shield thrust on the remote (right hand).
Then I would have suggested they axe the shield thrust.
I seldom ever used it as a move anyway and never found it ESSENTIAL at any point in the game.
I suggest axing it because doing so would have been worth it to keep the relative locations of Lake Hylia, Kakariko Village, etc. from OoT.
Also, lefties playing TP on the Wii are screwed as well.
I'm a lefty and it's only natural to use a main analog stick with my left thumb after gaming since the NES era. Aiming on the right hand is easy in Zelda, especially if it's resting on my lap all the time which provides stability and doesn't require raising my arm or any other usage of my upper deltoids. Big whoop.
lol Wii brings on so much hate. luv these threads
Post by: JonLeung on January 02, 2007, 07:16:46 AM
I guess I had just assumed that everyone knew that this was old news and there wasn't any point to complain about it any longer.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 02, 2007, 07:23:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Did you know they are already 1 year into developing the true Wii Zelda?!
That means it'll be out christmas 2008!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That's hilarious.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 02, 2007, 07:27:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Plugabugz How so? I've had no problem playing the majority of games (remote left, nunchuck right).
Yes, but one of the features of the Wii was that lefty gamers can now choose how they want to hold their controllers to accommodate their needs.
It's a small point in the argument, though. The REAL point is that the shield push wasn't worth it to sacrifice accuracy when it came to the locales of famous locations from OoT.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2007, 07:38:20 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 02, 2007, 07:48:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Zora's Domain is in the wrong spot, no matter what version. Accuracy is a broken.
Regardless, a closer to accurate map would still be worth sacrificing the utter worthlessness that was the shield bash.
The map comparison: (SPOILER WARNING!)
Twilight Princess overworld map (Wii version).
OoT Overworld Map
It looks like the map should have been (in the GC version) rotated 30° or so clockwise and it would have been closer to accurate, not perfect, but still closer.
Post by: ryancoke on January 02, 2007, 07:49:44 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 02, 2007, 07:57:05 AM
Also, on the subject of the shield bash, why do we flick the nunchuck in the left hand to make Link spin with his sword in his RIGHT hand?
Post by: couchmonkey on January 02, 2007, 08:00:54 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 02, 2007, 08:18:17 AM
They needed to. The cutscenes are often one big animation, if some parts of it get changed the rest won't match up so they had to mirror the whole cutscene. And since the characters interact with the environment that had to be mirrored as well.
And I propose that anyone posting pictures of left-eyed Midna (henceforth known as andiM) that aren't screenshots of the Wii version be Gannon Banned.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2007, 08:24:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Don't get me wrong, it's not a big deal, just that their reason for doing it was just plain silly.
Also, on the subject of the shield bash, why do we flick the nunchuck in the left hand to make Link spin with his sword in his RIGHT hand?
Cuz it's a replacement of Zangief's SPINNING PILE DRIVER. =D
Swinging the remote in a 360 like Rayman's cow doesn't make sense cuz of the simple flick-gesture swordplay.
In Ocarina, using the single-spin spin attack (no charging) involved a 360 on the analog stick. That didn't really involve the sword, and it was more of a Street Fighter special move. Link just spun in a circle like a moron and suddenly busts out SPIN ATTACK.
So instead of a 360 analog spin on the nunchuck plus a remote flick, Nintendo just gave us a shortcut.
A shortcut.
Otherwise we'll have Legend of Zelda: Budokai Tenkachi Alpha Duo Third Strike.
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 02, 2007, 08:30:01 AM
All I'm saying is the sword/shield issue was a silly reason to mirror the entire game.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 02, 2007, 08:39:09 AM
Replace with: West Click OK."
I think it would be funny if anyone in the game said "least" or "yeast" and it ended up "lwest" or "ywest".
The shield bash is a pretty good point. I wouldn't remove it from the game. It's already in there so why not keep it?
I'm happy that since I care about the arrangment of the map I had the option to get the "original vision" of the game. So in the end it doesn't really matter. It does still bother me that they reversed the game because it's their creation and they should care enough to not want to do something so drastic. There was a purpose for the map to be layed out as it was and they changed it for business reasons. They more or less sold out. The Wii version was created to sell their new console and they made an artistic compromise in that version. But it's a minor sell out since the game still plays well and isn't missing content and the original version is available.
Question about the Midna eye thing: what is shown in the art in the manual for the Wii version? Is just the game reversed or did they reverse all the art as well?
Post by: SixthAngel on January 02, 2007, 08:48:50 AM
Post by: Caliban on January 02, 2007, 08:52:27 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 02, 2007, 09:03:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
It's all about the tectonic plate movement, oh but wait there's more, none of you are Geologists specialized in Hyrule Geological History so how would any of your "but hyrule in the Wii version is not correct with blah blah blah blah blah and the GC blah blah blah blah blah blahblahblah blah blahblah bla-ah NES.
I almost suggested that they mention Hyrule experienced a series of earthquakes which caused the land to shift around.
Post by: The Omen on January 02, 2007, 09:07:12 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 02, 2007, 09:24:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Caliban
It's all about the tectonic plate movement, oh but wait there's more, none of you are Geologists specialized in Hyrule Geological History so how would any of your "but hyrule in the Wii version is not correct with blah blah blah blah blah and the GC blah blah blah blah blah blahblahblah blah blahblah bla-ah NES.
I almost suggested that they mention Hyrule experienced a series of earthquakes which caused the land to shift around.
Must be one hell of an earthquake to put everything in the complete opposite point it started out in.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2007, 09:28:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
Zelda stinks
Word. She never washed her cloak.
Post by: Requiem on January 02, 2007, 09:43:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Did you know they are already 1 year into developing the true Wii Zelda?!
That means it'll be out christmas 2008!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That's hilarious.
Ya, I know I'm being optimistic. But how long do Zeldas' usually take to develope? It can't be longer than 4 years, with a 3 year average...
Post by: Louieturkey on January 02, 2007, 10:36:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RequiemQuote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Did you know they are already 1 year into developing the true Wii Zelda?!
That means it'll be out christmas 2008!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That's hilarious.
Ya, I know I'm being optimistic. But how long do Zeldas' usually take to develope? It can't be longer than 4 years, with a 3 year average...
Actually, I think it's 5 years. I remember Miyamoto saying in 1997 that the next Zelda would take at least 5 years and that is how long it took to get Wind Waker. They take the most time with Zelda games and Mario platformers these days. I think Mario Galaxy has been in development since Mario 64 was released.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 02, 2007, 10:38:42 AM
It does seem really weird though since they otherwise made a good effort to keep things similar. Maybe they were just going by memory and thus got the two water themed areas mixed up.
Post by: Requiem on January 02, 2007, 10:49:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: LouieturkeyQuote
Originally posted by: RequiemQuote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Did you know they are already 1 year into developing the true Wii Zelda?!
That means it'll be out christmas 2008!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That's hilarious.
Ya, I know I'm being optimistic. But how long do Zeldas' usually take to develope? It can't be longer than 4 years, with a 3 year average...
Actually, I think it's 5 years. I remember Miyamoto saying in 1997 that the next Zelda would take at least 5 years and that is how long it took to get Wind Waker. They take the most time with Zelda games and Mario platformers these days. I think Mario Galaxy has been in development since Mario 64 was released.
No way!...5 years?! Mario Galaxy being developed since Mario 64! Looks like someone is a little pessimistic.
OOT released 1998
MM released 2000
WindWaker 2002
TP released 2006 (after massive delay to include custom Wii controls)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 02, 2007, 11:00:44 AM
Link's Awakening released 1993
Ocarina of Time released 1998
It can happen.
Though back then I don't think Nintendo started their next Zelda game right away like they seem to do now. They probably waited until the N64 hardware was ready before even starting Zelda 64.
Post by: Requiem on January 02, 2007, 11:03:54 AM
Post by: segagamer12 on January 02, 2007, 11:12:33 AM
I used to think it should be one Zelda per console but then I realised SNEs was the ONLY Nintendo console to only have ONE Zelda.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 02, 2007, 11:36:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I would assume that Lake Hylia could potentially have shifted it's location after a giant flood completed engulfed the world. But then I'm not sure when that actually happened. Actually playing TP I so far can pretend that Wind Waker's incredibly horrible storyline was retconned out of a existence and it makes it a very enjoyable experience. If there's some reference to it the further I get in the game don't tell me.
It does seem really weird though since they otherwise made a good effort to keep things similar. Maybe they were just going by memory and thus got the two water themed areas mixed up.
Couple things. Twilight Princess takes place BEFORE Wind Waker.
And...
Wind Waker had an excellent storyline. Not as good as TP, but better than Ocarina.
Post by: Mario on January 02, 2007, 11:54:50 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on January 02, 2007, 12:30:43 PM
Post by: NeoThunder on January 02, 2007, 02:34:29 PM
right hand, left hand....take your pick, and pick your system
over and done with
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 02, 2007, 03:29:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I would assume that Lake Hylia could potentially have shifted it's location after a giant flood completed engulfed the world. But then I'm not sure when that actually happened. Actually playing TP I so far can pretend that Wind Waker's incredibly horrible storyline was retconned out of a existence and it makes it a very enjoyable experience. If there's some reference to it the further I get in the game don't tell me.
It does seem really weird though since they otherwise made a good effort to keep things similar. Maybe they were just going by memory and thus got the two water themed areas mixed up.
Couple things. Twilight Princess takes place BEFORE Wind Waker.
And...
Wind Waker had an excellent storyline. Not as good as TP, but better than Ocarina.
Yeah for sticking up to Wind Waker's storyline which is far superior to any Zelda before it in both dialogue, story, and depth for characters (especially Ganon).
Post by: Requiem on January 02, 2007, 03:35:20 PM
I always enjoyed MM's story line, simply because it was so intense.
Post by: Rancid Planet on January 02, 2007, 04:44:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Did you know they are already 1 year into developing the true Wii Zelda?!
That means it'll be out christmas 2008!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That's hilarious.
Well I'd say Christmas 2008 wouldn't be too bad a guess. Of course if that's the case they'll have to start saying it's ready for release this coming Christmas to make sure they have time to keep delaying it for at least one full year.
It's part of what makes Zelda magical.
Post by: Shecky on January 02, 2007, 05:59:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Question about the Midna eye thing: what is shown in the art in the manual for the Wii version? Is just the game reversed or did they reverse all the art as well?
The GCN and Wii art are identical and follow the GCN layout... I answered that before.
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
They needed to. The cutscenes are often one big animation, if some parts of it get changed the rest won't match up so they had to mirror the whole cutscene. And since the characters interact with the environment that had to be mirrored as well.
And I propose that anyone posting pictures of left-eyed Midna (henceforth known as andiM) that aren't screenshots of the Wii version be Gannon Banned.
The layout of cutscenes is probably a large factor as to why they mirrored the WHOLE world. Another is likely collision detection, especially for enemies. Mirroring the whole world just seems like a lot more work than just flipping a single character, so there had to be good reason to flip the whole thing.
Post by: Plugabugz on January 02, 2007, 07:19:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Zora's Domain is in the wrong spot, no matter what version. Accuracy is a broken.
Phendrana Drifts > Zora's Domain.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 03, 2007, 05:34:28 AM
"Wind Waker had an excellent storyline. Not as good as TP, but better than Ocarina."
The actual storyline of the events of the game wasn't too bad but I really hate the whole world flooded concept and the fact that they said it takes place merely 1000 years (I think) after Ocarina of Time. Any storyline that involves the creation of the most boring Zelda overworld ever made isn't going to get high praise in my book.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 03, 2007, 05:59:38 AM
Your North is backwards.
Post by: JonLeung on January 03, 2007, 06:31:23 AM
"OMG that NPC told me to find Lake Hylia in the WEST instead of EAST! JOYGASM!"
I doubt you ever said that.
You may be supporting the "original vision", but does it actually increase your enjoyment of the game at all?
The switch may be seen as dumb, fine, but supporting one version over the other, if only for that single reason, seems even more ridiculous to me. Just my opinion. You can say "but I won't get a Wii" (ridiculousness of that statement aside), or that you're only capable of moving your fingers or something but you really need to get out more if you're going to start a campaign of "KAKARIKO MUST BE IN THE EAST!"
Post by: Kairon on January 03, 2007, 06:51:05 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: segagamer12 on January 03, 2007, 06:59:28 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 03, 2007, 06:59:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
You realize you guys are arguing over which side of the egg is the top?
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
The one facing me.
Post by: Requiem on January 03, 2007, 07:00:21 AM
This is by far one of the worst debates ever to grace PGC or NWR or whatever the hell it is. And to my suprise (not really), Ian is the one carrying the torch. Why Ian? Why?
This is just....well....sad.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 03, 2007, 07:22:15 AM
Your North is backwards."
You're right. What the hell am I thinking of?
"You may be supporting the 'original vision', but does it actually increase your enjoyment of the game at all?"
Probably not.
Post by: Ghisy on January 03, 2007, 07:48:11 AM
Problem solved!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 03, 2007, 07:51:38 AM
Post by: JonLeung on January 03, 2007, 07:58:19 AM
Post by: Ghisy on January 03, 2007, 08:44:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Nice! You must be a real Zelda fan!
I am!
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
But do you have the Game & Watch Zelda in mint condition like I do?
Nope, I wish though, just for my collection.
Post by: mantidor on January 03, 2007, 12:53:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Nice! You must be a sucker who got ripped off by Nintendo
fixed I had to, sorry
Flipping the whole world is actually easier than just flipping a character, they just have to render everything backwards, and is probably just a line of code, or a few lines, flipping only link would need extensive reviews of every single of his interactions with the world in order to make sure everything is right, from shaking hands to opening doors.
I guess it only matters if you notice details, a world where everyone is left handed and the sun rises in the wrong side might get the attention of someone who pays close attention to those kind of details. Since the only location changed was Zora's Domain the rest seems pretty much like OoT.
Post by: Ghisy on January 04, 2007, 05:22:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Nice! You must be a sucker who got ripped off by Nintendo
fixed I had to, sorry
Tssk tssk!
I only bought both versions because I wanted to, not because Nintendo told me to.
That makes a big difference
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 04, 2007, 06:04:33 AM
Cuz we all know the definitive version is Majora's Mask.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 04, 2007, 06:08:37 AM
Post by: Ghisy on January 04, 2007, 07:09:22 AM
- the GC version is indeed an investment as it is the last Nintendo title on the GameCube.
I do not regret any of my Zelda purchases
Post by: KDR_11k on January 05, 2007, 06:35:33 AM
I suppose the change to Zora's domain was necessary to deal with the larger map and get rid of the star shape of the old hyrule. How else would you fit in some of those areas you get through on the way there while still having a shortcut to the domain from a common field area?
Post by: Crimm on January 05, 2007, 06:43:45 AM
"Go to the East till you hit the bridge."
"I've gone all the way to the East, there's a big rock"
"Oh shi-."
"What?"
"Yeah, the flipped world."
"Huh?"
"Just go the other way."
"[expletive deleted]"
