Post by: shrapnel09 on November 29, 2006, 12:25:15 PM
There are a few reasons why i would invest $300+ dollars in VC:
1) The most important thing for me regarding an old school game is the memories attatched with it, im 20 so i was pretty young when i was playing zelda and all the marios on the NES. And when i play those games now i need them to be identical to what i played as a kid. I hated Super Mario All-Stars because of this, I loved Mario 1-3 but the updated graphics made it a totally different game to my eyes and it didnt match up to what i enjoyed as a child. And i praise Nintendo for keeping all VC titles _exactly_ the way they where all those years ago.
2) Roms on computers never really could do this; visual quality was always off, sound was different in most cases, a completely different controller, sitting up to a computer screen... All this just turned me off from playing games i previously owned. This may sound odd to you but that is just the way i looked at it. I did however use roms and emulators to play games i rented or never played before cause they didnt really mean as much to me (smartball and megaman series).
3) Sense of Security; One of the bigger reasons is the fact that this is pure game data we are talking about, not breakable cartridges that can get worn down. and this is a system that is going to last (functionaly speaking), i dont know how many years my NES has left in it. Like i said i am thinking decades from now playing the same thing i did when i say 8, would i be able to with my original NES/Genesis? What about the controllers for the system? Many things go into an account. I hated the Controller on the N64 and im not using a garbage 64 emulator for it either.
4) Ultimate convenience; This is a big factor to have almost every single Nintendo game made on one system. from having 5 different systems with a ton of wires and controlles everywhere to one system and one controller. The fact that i can play some Majora's Mask then play a little Donkey Kong Country and after that finish my game of Zelda II: Adventures of Link and finish it all up by playing a few rounds of Sonic II without having to move! Its not being lazy its just shear convience to play everything one system and you will end up playing more games because of it.
5) Price; I dont know about you but i dont really mind the pricing system at all. Again considering there is probabaly only around 34 games that i originally had that will likely show up on VC and i calculated that up to be around $270. I dont get why people are freaking out that NES games cost $5, sure for games like Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. it seems a tad steep, but i would gladly pay that much for any Zelda or Super Mario Bros. game. Not to mention this is over a span of like 3-5 years so its not that bad really.
Well thats the most of it, i will also be getting lots of games i liked a lot and didnt really own (bubble bobble for one) and i think there is about 20 of those that will likely show up on VC. Call me crazy but that is how i look at it, a long term investment for pure quality of the exact original and will last as long as you can.
Post by: Nick DiMola on November 29, 2006, 12:43:49 PM
Post by: Switchblade Cross on November 29, 2006, 12:52:24 PM
I can pop a cart into my 21 year old NES and play it fine. Will i sill be able to play VC games on Wii in 20 years?
Post by: MilkManX on November 29, 2006, 12:58:05 PM
Mario 64 looks the best it ever has!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 29, 2006, 01:21:39 PM
Post by: BlkPaladin on November 29, 2006, 01:40:33 PM
Post by: Ceric on November 29, 2006, 01:43:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
Prices are too high. That's my only beef. If it was like $1 for NES, $2 for SNES, and $3-5 for N64 I'd be all for it.
Thats just to cheap for the amount of entertainment your getting.
Post by: Kairon on November 29, 2006, 02:10:41 PM
There are loads of quality content that will be on the VC that will entertain me for more hours and for less money than generic sci-fi shooter #38.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Striderprime00 on November 29, 2006, 02:55:08 PM
Quote
They had to balence the price the customer is willing to pay with the money developers want to get back for their investment.
I pretty sure the developers has gotten their money back many times over. These games are really old and the cost to develop them were pretty cheap relative to today. They are absolutely not losing any money by re-releasing them on VC.
I know that I will only buy a handful of games on VC at the current price, but I would definitely have brought more on impulse at a lower price.
It would have helped if Nintendo allowed a time limit demo on these games. That way, I wouldn't mind investing $5 - $10 on games i have never played before. Risking $5- $10 on a game that I might not enjoy, is kinda uncool.
Post by: shrapnel09 on November 29, 2006, 03:02:15 PM
Good news! I have picked up a VC controller from walmart about an hour ago, feels great!
Pros:
*good overall feel, all buttons are pretty much easy to reach
*multiple Z buttons, at first i thought 3 was too many, but i can see how certain games use certain buttons more and you can easily adjust
*thumbstick feels much smoother and has more of a grip on it when compaired to the GC thumbstick
Cons:
*dont agree with cord placement/connecting it to wiimote, hopefully there will be an adapter to connect it straight to wii, i would prefer that.
*why is R and L buttons analog again? Seriously if its not going to work for GC games dont put it in there, unless there are Wii games that will use it.
*thumbsticks are a bit close together but there isnt much room to put them someplace else.
And i will be picking up a Wii Dec 6th!!! walmart will have atleast 3 by 8:00AM, so i will camp out at around midnight.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 29, 2006, 04:17:59 PM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 29, 2006, 04:20:43 PM
Post by: shrapnel09 on November 29, 2006, 04:37:16 PM
like i said before if they want to make a decent profit they are better off not making a single price for all games, but adjust them due to the game's popularity, keep zelda at $5 and reduce donkey kong to $2. I believe this is called ellastic demand, change the price a little and you get results.
Post by: Shecky on November 29, 2006, 04:40:43 PM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 29, 2006, 05:15:03 PM
Post by: lastexit on November 29, 2006, 05:52:48 PM
You can't have tiered pricing because then you are forced to pass judgement on the quality and value of each game. Third-parties in particular don't want Nintendo saying "Eh, Ecco the Dolphin was overrated, 2 bucks on VC."
Lastly, the prices are quite good in comparison to what you can buy for $5. Please, go outside, tell me you can get for a dollar. Now, return to your VC and tell me that you should be able to buy River City Ransom for $1 on VC?
The business model is the same as with ringtones. Many sales will be to people looking for something very specific who will pay whatever the cost is. The bulk of revenue will come from dedicated customers who purchase 3-4 games a month on VC each and every month. That is still much less than one new Wii game.
VC is what will carry the console through dry patches on the release schedule. Look for a surprise VC game to be sprung out of nowhere once the kinks are worked out of the online angle.
Post by: segagamer12 on November 29, 2006, 06:00:16 PM
I dont knwo about that, many old school devs, Midway, Atari, Activison, claim costs are relative today as they have always been.
Also yo cant say for sure every single one of these games ahs been paid for, several of these games infact flopped upon initial release and this is likely a way to try and recoup old looses, I know for sure Sega has some old debs to recoup)
Plus you are forgetting that they are offering Free online play and wiiconnect24 and other online services that are costing them out the ass and they need to cover those costs as well.
Plus if you are ionto collecting old games at all you will find that the really good NES, SNEs and Genesis games can cost as high as 20 dollars or more. Turbo Grafix games are rare as hell and can cost a bit for the good oens too.
N64 games range from 10 to 15 dolalrs every where I find them and even higher for the Mario stuff. 10 for Mario 64 is s good deal and anything less than fiffty for Mario RPG is a rare thing, check ebay its a friggin hard game to get a hold of for a reasonable price.
I personally LOVE the VC it makes collecting old gamee so much cheaper and easier. I just wish there was a way to save them onto carts and plug them into my odl systems. that would rock.
Post by: IceCold on November 29, 2006, 06:44:18 PM
As someone mentioned, Nintendo had to get the perfect balance for the price to maximise profit, and so they chose these prices. Not only that, but they also had to account for new games. If the VC games were too cheap, it's very likely that many people would just buy those games, and not pay attention to the new Wii games. Software tie in ratio is king.
Post by: shrapnel09 on November 29, 2006, 07:09:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
would you pay $5 for NES Pinball?
if you are refering to me then no, i already told you that nintendo should charge the crappy games less and the more better games more. However if NES pinball was something i played all the time as a kid and it had some kind of meaning to me worth keeping, then yes i would pay $5 for it. However im sure most of us dont feel the same way and NES pinball shouldnt even be on there unless its going for $1-2, just for the sake of saying "hey the wii has some really cheap old school games that anyone can buy".
actually if i had to change the price plan I would have done it like this:
NES - $3
N64 - $12
Even though that looks better on paper, Nintendo wouldnt necessarly lose money on this, i.e. two NES games that sold for $3 is more than one that sold for $5, however we honestly dont know the profits Nintendo are making per VC game, and yes it takes time to emulate N64/Genesis games and the like and that development time costs money, the emulation needs to be near perfect bug free, same sound quality, etc... not to mention improved framerates for the wii hardware, so no it wasnt all done at one time awhile ago. Plus the fact that each game has an instruction guide that comes with it that needs to be written out and tested for any glitches and all that. Also the licensing issues for the developers of future games (you think they are going to get goldeneye for free?).. and the list goes on.
I dont like it when you say "oh its an old game so it only takes minutes and costs nothing" I'm sure there is very little you really know about how these types of things work in the buisness world, there are many many things that go into account here that you wouldnt think of.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 30, 2006, 01:47:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
Prices are too high. That's my only beef. If it was like $1 for NES, $2 for SNES, and $3-5 for N64 I'd be all for it.
Same here. The price is right for the N64 games, but everything else is too expensive, especially when:
- Some of these games are not worth it
- All of them can be gotten for free online
However, I think the main appeal of the VC is that you can have ALL the games YOU want on one console, it will always be there and is all neatly organized. Plus, it would be LEGALLY supporting the classics (for the extreme loyalists and such).
My main beef is that Nintendo has been handling the VC somewhat poorly. A poor selection of games at launch, delayed updates and delayed releases of the greater games.
I hope Nintendo sets this thing out, I'm guessing this is mainly because its still launch and there are still bugs to work out.
Post by: segagamer12 on November 30, 2006, 02:04:08 AM
not legally.
have any of you peopel complaining about the prices even tried looking for old NES or SNES games? they never ever go for this cheap except the crappy games. Nintendo did thier homework I think the prices are absolutley perfect. If its too much for you to pay then dont pay it. I prmise you that a lot of these games wont ever be found for as cheap as they go for on VC.
Virtual Console is primarily for collectors and people who grew up with these games, they will buy what games they played for nastalgia sake alone.
In general when shopping used games here is how the prices usually go, for NES yo pay between five and eight dollars for regular games, up to ten dollars for the good stuff even those that arent rare, and more for rare games.
So far Mario Bros is theonly NES game released on VC that is rare. a Cart copy of that game isnt as low as five dollars anywhere I have seen it, hell the Atari 2600 versions was five dollars.
Genesis and SNES games start at six to eight dollars for the crap and go up from there.
MOST N64 games yo find worth buying will be eight, ten or twelve dolalrs and the really good ones 20-30 even still today. Try getting Mario 64 for ten dollars ata used game store or on ebay. Sometimes you will get lucky but not often.
As a collector myself these prices are more than barelbley they are perfect. Heck look at NES Zelda, that game usually goes for ten dollars on its own.
Post by: Shecky on November 30, 2006, 02:17:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: shrapnel09Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
would you pay $5 for NES Pinball?
if you are refering to me then no, i already told you that nintendo should charge the crappy games less and the more better games more. However if NES pinball was something i played all the time as a kid and it had some kind of meaning to me worth keeping, then yes i would pay $5 for it. However im sure most of us dont feel the same way and NES pinball shouldnt even be on there unless its going for $1-2, just for the sake of saying "hey the wii has some really cheap old school games that anyone can buy".
The comment was not directed at you, just a general inquiry. Also, I agree that there should be probably two price points for each system (ie: $2 NES games, $5 NES games, $4 SNES, $8 SNES....) The one glaring negative with this model is that it can leave different impressions on people (only consider $5 NES games, those are the good ones .... or let me buy a bunch of these $2 games and ignore those expensive $5 ones, etc) Nintendo still has one option available though, subsidizing your account with free points.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 30, 2006, 03:25:42 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2006, 04:57:17 AM
I think there is so much positive going on with the virtual console that it is very nice...and I think people that are complaining are just complaining for no reason.
Simply put, the system is well thought out, and will allow people to collect and play the games they once loved again legally, or play games they missed and have totally new experiences.
Sure games like Pinball may not be worth 5 dollars to you. But if someone fell in love with that game as a kid, it may be worth buying again. And that is the thing, its personal and you don't have to buy everything.
About the prices, they may seem high, but there are still development costs, server costs, and more to get the games playing on the virtual console. As well the virtual console is what Nintendo is using to keep the online content free for us gamers. We don't have to pay $59.99 a year to play online games. Insead it if we want to buy virtual console games we can, and we are also supporting Nintendo's online system. That seems completely fair.
I won't be buying every classic game I once owned. But I will buy the ones I loved and the ones I want my friends and family to replay with me...or games I would one day like to introduce to my niece when she gets older.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 30, 2006, 05:04:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
>>- All of them can be gotten for free online<<
not legally.
It's only illegal if you get caught, which you won't be.
In fact, I could probably download a pile of roms then try to turn myself in to a police station and see if I could actually get arrested for it but they'd probably turn me away saying I hadn't committed a crime.
However, the real reason to pay the fee for a virtual console game is so you can have the convenience and multiplayer in the comfort of your own living room.
$10 to play 4 player SSB on wavebirds? SOLD!
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 05:47:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Striderprime00Quote
They had to balence the price the customer is willing to pay with the money developers want to get back for their investment.
I pretty sure the developers has gotten their money back many times over. These games are really old and the cost to develop them were pretty cheap relative to today. They are absolutely not losing any money by re-releasing them on VC.
I know that I will only buy a handful of games on VC at the current price, but I would definitely have brought more on impulse at a lower price.
It would have helped if Nintendo allowed a time limit demo on these games. That way, I wouldn't mind investing $5 - $10 on games i have never played before. Risking $5- $10 on a game that I might not enjoy, is kinda uncool.
Time demo would be cool but how do you do it? I mean I just found out today that on the Zune the 3 plays you get when you et a shared song its not done by just starting the song. It's really Listening to half the song are a minute of it whichever come first at that point it becomes a listen.
So how would you do that? Some of the older games a demo time would allow people to beat the whole game without buying it.
Also consider who can get on the VC. These are people who:
A) Have a wireless router at home
B) Sold into the concept enough to by the USB Network Adapter and have a true home network at home
These are the people that in general are ready to take a little chance on technology. I don't think VC games even if they were half the price of a song on iTunes would necessarily ever be an impulse buy like music. Just not happening. Plus with the current setup I think the prices are fine because only the dedicated will tough it out. The site loads up slow. They haven't yet updated the front page. Everything is New even when it isn't. Theres no search feature and the scrolling is already getting interesting.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 30, 2006, 05:59:28 AM
I see it as the opposite. Without a physical copy all of your games could be lost if your Wii gets damaged. Yeah Nintendo will help you replace that games now but ten years from now? Plus with digital content companies always have that bullsh!t "licence to use" crap. Nintendo could probably complete kill the whole VC when their next console comes out and wipe out every game you've downloaded and get away with it legally. They probably won't but the risk is always there with digitally stored content. With a physical copy you're in control. If you can get the working hardware you can play that game.
Honestly if the price of NES games was $1 I could see myself spending $100 on games for I never had an NES and that hardware is very unreliable. As they are now I'd only buy a handful of games I really want. As long as Nintendo keeps the prices up they will make less VC money from me because the prices are above my impulse buy range. Fast food restaurants get less money for each purchase but fast food restaurants get more money from me because I visit them far more than higher priced "slow food" restaurants. Chocolate bar companies probably make more money off of me than anyone else because they have an impulse product at a low price. While I may download 100 $1 NES games I wouldn't necessarily download 20 $5 NES games.
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 06:09:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Sense of Security; One of the bigger reasons is the fact that this is pure game data we are talking about, not breakable cartridges that can get worn down."
I see it as the opposite. Without a physical copy all of your games could be lost if your Wii gets damaged. Yeah Nintendo will help you replace that games now but ten years from now? Plus with digital content companies always have that bullsh!t "licence to use" crap. Nintendo could probably complete kill the whole VC when their next console comes out and wipe out every game you've downloaded and get away with it legally. They probably won't but the risk is always there with digitally stored content. With a physical copy you're in control. If you can get the working hardware you can play that game.
Honestly if the price of NES games was $1 I could see myself spending $100 on games for I never had an NES and that hardware is very unreliable. As they are now I'd only buy a handful of games I really want. As long as Nintendo keeps the prices up they will make less VC money from me because the prices are above my impulse buy range. Fast food restaurants get less money for each purchase but fast food restaurants get more money from me because I visit them far more than higher priced "slow food" restaurants. Chocolate bar companies probably make more money off of me than anyone else because they have an impulse product at a low price. While I may download 100 $1 NES games I wouldn't necessarily download 20 $5 NES games.
But you possibly might. Also if Nintendo charged just $1 and you did buy 100 games I wonder how much they actually make in comparison to you just getting 15 games at $5? First they have to release games quicker. Second it would cost them more bandwidth. Third it would put more strain on the Server meaning there life-cycle will be shortened. In the long run this might be a low price at the moment I'm sure Nintendo will readjust it later if they feel they could get a better mix. (By adjusting the value of Wiipoints not the actual Wiipoint cost.)
Post by: Chode2234 on November 30, 2006, 06:12:56 AM
I think some patience is required. The thing has only been out for less than 2 weeks, once they get the cream of the crop games released it will be awesome. Prices are reasonable, but I wish you could demo games. The Wii supply is being eaten by early adoptors who will buy anything Nintendo puts out. They still have some time to release the games we all want to see. But Ecco is awesome, I would just love to see Mario World.
Do you think Nintendo loves us enought to release the Mario World, or will we have to buy every one seperately?
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 30, 2006, 06:15:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Chode2234
Smash Brother: Copyright infringement is a civil offense and not a criminal one. The police really dont care or really enforce civil law. Thats why the RIAA is sueing kids, and the FBI is not banging down their doors.
Exactly.
Unless Nintendo, Sega or whoever the developer is seeks damages against you, nothing will happen, and let's be honest: it's not worth the time or legal fees to seek damages unless they want to make an example out of someone and they happen to pick YOU.
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2006, 06:19:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
>>- All of them can be gotten for free online<<
not legally.
It's only illegal if you get caught, which you won't be.
In fact, I could probably download a pile of roms then try to turn myself in to a police station and see if I could actually get arrested for it but they'd probably turn me away saying I hadn't committed a crime.
However, the real reason to pay the fee for a virtual console game is so you can have the convenience and multiplayer in the comfort of your own living room.
$10 to play 4 player SSB on wavebirds? SOLD!
Illegal is Illegal. This is splitting hairs and is stupid.
If I steal something from a store or neighbor I broke the law even if I didn't get caught.
If I kill someone it is still against the law and illegal even if I don't get caught.
I think your relative view on morality and legality scares the crap out of me. And is what is wrong with America. We all think we deserve something and that is RIGHT, even when it is WRONG.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 30, 2006, 06:27:27 AM
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 06:28:10 AM
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2006, 07:17:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
You're also paying $60 for an XBox 360 game that probably took 40-50 people a year to make and is brand new. You're not buying a game that came out 22 years ago, on a system that's 4 (or 3 or 2) generations in the past, and hasn't been sold in retail stores for years.
Just because 40-50 people work 2-3 years on a game DOES NOT make it fun. This is exactly the mindset that Nintendo is fighting.
I'm a consumer. I'm paying for utility, meaning whatever gives me the most fun. If an old school Super Star Soldier game for the TGFX I never owned is more fun at $6 than generic-shooting-port #3, then I'm going to buy Super Star Soldier.
Same with movies. I'm not going to see Mission Impossible 3 in the theatres and spend $8.95 just because its new, its got awesome special effects and explosions and Tom Cruise is just-so-newsworthy, and a lot of people worked really hard on it. I'm going to buy the $9.99 DVD release of Broadcast News, a MUCH better movie made back in the 80's that I can watch OVER and OVER and OVER and over again, a movie that. I'll actually spend MORE on older movies if they're of higher QUALITY than new-slap-bang-production-number-3.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 30, 2006, 07:19:58 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 30, 2006, 07:23:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Hey wait... Smash you have a Roomba if I remember right... I want your Roomba. So can I come up and take it?
Too late, I already called dibs on it
.My question is, if ROms are considered illegal why isn't the gaming industry doing something to eliminate them?
I know the music and movie industry did EVERYTHING in their power to eliminate the websites, why isn't the videogame industry doing the same thing?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 30, 2006, 07:27:45 AM
The game industry is continually looking for more ways to make sales, while the movie/music industry feels threatened enough to WASTE its time trying to prevent the "loss" of sales (since they believe they know the law better than the people they accuse).
Post by: Requiem on November 30, 2006, 07:33:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Sense of Security; One of the bigger reasons is the fact that this is pure game data we are talking about, not breakable cartridges that can get worn down."
I see it as the opposite. Without a physical copy all of your games could be lost if your Wii gets damaged. Yeah Nintendo will help you replace that games now but ten years from now? Plus with digital content companies always have that bullsh!t "licence to use" crap. Nintendo could probably complete kill the whole VC when their next console comes out and wipe out every game you've downloaded and get away with it legally. They probably won't but the risk is always there with digitally stored content. With a physical copy you're in control. If you can get the working hardware you can play that game.
Honestly if the price of NES games was $1 I could see myself spending $100 on games for I never had an NES and that hardware is very unreliable. As they are now I'd only buy a handful of games I really want. As long as Nintendo keeps the prices up they will make less VC money from me because the prices are above my impulse buy range. Fast food restaurants get less money for each purchase but fast food restaurants get more money from me because I visit them far more than higher priced "slow food" restaurants. Chocolate bar companies probably make more money off of me than anyone else because they have an impulse product at a low price. While I may download 100 $1 NES games I wouldn't necessarily download 20 $5 NES games.
I think your misinformed. The only way that you will not be able to access your games 10 years from now is if Nintendo's servers break down and lose all your information.
You see, your Wii isn't the only thing that holds information regarding VC games. Everytime you buy a game, that game is added to your online account and thus stored there no matter how many times you delete and re-download the game onto your Wii.
Pretty neat huh'
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 30, 2006, 07:46:10 AM
Post by: Kairon on November 30, 2006, 08:27:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
I never said the time put into making a game means it will be good, but it does usually justify the price.
Quality justifies the price. Otherwise Daikatana was completely justified.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 30, 2006, 08:31:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang Illegal is Illegal. This is splitting hairs and is stupid.
If I steal something from a store or neighbor I broke the law even if I didn't get caught.
If I kill someone it is still against the law and illegal even if I don't get caught.
I think your relative view on morality and legality scares the crap out of me. And is what is wrong with America. We all think we deserve something and that is RIGHT, even when it is WRONG.
What can I say? I'm a realist, an economist.
The only thing which deters human beings from doing things considered "wrong" is the punishment and the high likelihood of being caught. Unenforceable laws might as well not be laws at all.
FYI, I don't have any ROMs. I've downloaded them to try games which I would otherwise never have the chance to try but generally they suck so I never bother with them again. Let me just say that, had I paid for these games, I'd DEMAND a refund on the spot.
And ROMs aren't property: they're INTELLECTUAL property, and the difference is that the laws are fuzzy when it comes to stealing something which has no physical mass and can be replicated an infinite number of times.
Doesn't anyone remember Napster in its original form? It was basically one gigantic service dedicated to the theft of music and yet millions of college students had absolutely no qualms with stealing as much music as they could fit on their computers.
I'm not saying it's ethical, I'm saying that I know lots of people who can't afford to pay $5 for a game which likely won't have aged well at all and my advice in those situations would be to download the ROM and try it beforehand to see if it would be worth paying money for.
There is no one "deserving". There are only those who fight for what they want and those who go without.
Post by: decoyman on November 30, 2006, 08:40:24 AM
My first download will be Solomon's Key, and I'm sure I'll get plenty of value with my $5 investment out of that one.
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 08:43:21 AM
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2006, 08:49:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Brandogg
I never said the time put into making a game means it will be good, but it does usually justify the price.
Quality justifies the price. Otherwise Daikatana was completely justified.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
You are SUCH a gamer.
Also earlier in the year there was a thread that talked about people who sold those a billion games in one and they were just systems loaded with NES Roms. How a number of them were caught, put in prisoned, fined outrageous amounts, and when possible deported. (I'm sure Vudu will suddenly pop with a link I don't even know what to search for now.) The big fries they'll go after. Also before anyone says it. You can't have backups of games. (I'm not sure about the VC but Wii or GCN games I'm sure.) Just open a manual and read the first page with the Nintendo stuff on it.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on November 30, 2006, 08:58:49 AM
Post by: segagamer12 on November 30, 2006, 12:13:55 PM
But I dont hold anyone else to that.
The fact is downloading roms is stealing money form a developer and that is one reason nto to do it.
I own a Record Company and I think I understand alot more about Intellectualy Property and Copyright laws than just average joe internet gamer who thinks its ok cuz its just a game or whatever excuse he uses.
If you want t try out a game, you can rent thatgame or barrow it from someone, youd ont Dl entire GC games to see if you liek them do you?
Thats a weak example and doesnt hold much clout.
that wasnt even my point yet it seams this discussion has gotten of track and onto copyright laws.
Nintendo HAS shut down several rom sites and has been fighting the stealing of their IP for years.
As a copyright owner I agree fully with the protections put forth in our laws that protect me from damages. Maybe you didn't knwo this but the MINIMUM fine for Coprytight infringment is $500,000 and up to five years in prison MINIMUM. Nintendo has gone out of thier way to shut down rom sites, I think they will go out of thier way to shot somone from stealing thier roms s it hurts them in the long run.
I got more I could say but I gotta go ill be back latter.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 30, 2006, 12:27:19 PM
Post by: segagamer12 on November 30, 2006, 02:12:48 PM
Even Nintendo couldnt fight this. BUT who in the world has access to NES Rom burners? Transfering the Roms to a PC and running them in a program that ISNT the original NES hardware is still illegal.
I have reported Ebay auctioners to Nintendo for copyright infringement and other people as well, not just Nintendo but anytime I see infrginement I report it as a service to the IP owner. I would ask the same courtesy regarding my own IP.
and FYI I actually sat down and had negociations with NOA reps regaring the liscening of thier IP for a (then called Revolution) Promotional Soundtrack CD, part of why that never happened is Nintendo told me they are VERY picky about their IP as it is VERY valuable so they are super strickt on who they liscense thier stuff too. I got truned down cuz I was a small company and didnt have any way of disctributing the Cds without thier funding which they were,understandabley, willing to commit to. SO I am fully aware of how serious they take thier IP.
Although I doubt they woudl go after the individual downloading the Roms I am certian they would destroy person or entity providing the Roms for DL. So if your thinking of distributing Roms illegaly think twice.
Post by: Kairon on December 01, 2006, 05:40:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
I got truned down cuz I was a small company and didnt have any way of disctributing the Cds without thier funding which they were,understandabley, willing to commit to.
This is the one thing about Nintendo I wish I could change.
They're still very establishment, when I would prefer that they would be more open to smaller and more independent companies. Small companies can be the incubators for innovation! ... or at least, they can be...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: King of Twitch on December 01, 2006, 07:35:27 PM
Post by: segagamer12 on December 02, 2006, 06:53:49 PM
Long before we ever came to them we tried starting a petition to get them to make a Super Mario Allstars disck for GC and they told me wait till E3 and that was when they announced VC. I still think that a game like that could have sold pretty well on GC and maybe attracted gamers that left Ninty for PS.
Post by: denjet78 on December 02, 2006, 08:09:00 PM
Didn't we fight fight in two world wars to protect the world from this so called evil? But we're more than willing to allow the haves to manipulate the laws in such a way that they have almost complete control over the havenots. Nothing is sacred in the face of the all mighty dollar.
And you people here are arguing over whether downloading ROMs for decades old systems that may never see the light of day again is legal or not? I think there are far more pressing and dangerous situations out there.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 02, 2006, 08:12:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: denjet78
Has anyone here ever read those little text agreements that you have to agree to in order to install almost any program anymore? They basically say that you don't own the software you just paid for, but rather that you're simply leasing it and the original company that produced it has the right to, at any time, revoke your lease. When did this happen? Where are the laws protecting the consumer? Software in this country, the US, is basically being run by a communist regime.
Didn't we fight fight in two world wars to protect the world from this so called evil? But we're more than willing to allow the haves to manipulate the laws in such a way that they have almost complete control over the havenots. Nothing is sacred in the face of the all mighty dollar.
And you people here are arguing over whether downloading ROMs for decades old systems that may never see the light of day again is legal or not? I think there are far more pressing and dangerous situations out there.
Someone is overreacting a bit.
Post by: RickPowers on December 27, 2006, 10:26:44 AM
Seriously, the games I (and I have to assume most others) would be most likely to buy are the ones I already own at least once, if not MULTIPLE times. Zelda (in Animal Crossing, Zelda Compilation Disc), Mario Bros. (every Mario GBA game to date) and SMB (Animal Crossing) I have in at least one form if not many. For Zelda and SMB ... I still have the original NES carts! I don't want to buy these games again just for the convenience and prestige of playing them on the VC. Nintendo has already shown that they have the ability to register games on the MyNintendo site ... let us put the in the product codes from games we already own and give us the VC versions of the games for free, dammit!
That said, I suspect the VC is going to be the only way to get back in touch with games I no longer have or never got to play. I'm desperately hoping for Blast Corps and Sin and Punishment to be released on VC, but it's looking doubtful (Blast Corps was a Rare game, S&P was Japan-only).
Post by: Kairon on December 27, 2006, 01:04:46 PM
Genesis games? This Nintendo-only fanboi is sold. TurboGrafX games? I've only played the real TGFX-16 once or twice at a friend's place and it's held a place in my heart all these years since. I can finally scratch that itch! NES? I was BORN in 1984, that ENTIRE generation passed me by with only my uncle's hand-me-down game collection to recall it for me. Finally I can take that system and feel as if I'm finally seeing it through my own eyes. SNES? I would've never bought third party games back in the day, back now I'm eager for Castlevania and can FINALLY put all those memorized pages of Nintendo Power's Sim City walk through into action. Heck, back in the day I would play games by reading Nintendo power and never buying them. The VC is the feature of my literal dreams.
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 27, 2006, 01:26:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
Here's my problem with the VC as it stands right now. It's a money grab.
Seriously, the games I (and I have to assume most others) would be most likely to buy are the ones I already own at least once, if not MULTIPLE times. Zelda (in Animal Crossing, Zelda Compilation Disc), Mario Bros. (every Mario GBA game to date) and SMB (Animal Crossing) I have in at least one form if not many. For Zelda and SMB ... I still have the original NES carts! I don't want to buy these games again just for the convenience and prestige of playing them on the VC. Nintendo has already shown that they have the ability to register games on the MyNintendo site ... let us put the in the product codes from games we already own and give us the VC versions of the games for free, dammit!
That said, I suspect the VC is going to be the only way to get back in touch with games I no longer have or never got to play. I'm desperately hoping for Blast Corps and Sin and Punishment to be released on VC, but it's looking doubtful (Blast Corps was a Rare game, S&P was Japan-only).
You know? That's an EXCELLENT idea! Too bad Nintendo would oppose to it since what they want is to make MONEY off the VC NOW.
While I agree with what you said about re-buying the same games, you have to admit it would be weird to NOT include them in the lineup. I mean, its like having a movie collection that lacks the classics. As much as Nintendo had whored Mario and Zelda in various formats they are needed in order to have a convincing and appealing lineup.
Although I have the feeling that the XBOX Live Marketplace, the PS3 store and the VC will be the death of compilation discs and re-releases of old games. I mean, I think its cheaper to put the data in a server than putting them on a disc, making the package, the instruction manual and such.
And one last thing, I am getting sick and tired of the "Nintendo is forcing me to buy the games I already have!" complains. Nintendo isn't forcing ANYONE to buy the VC games. If you are content with owning the game in a different format, fine. If you want to buy the game for the VC, fine. But its getting annoying hearing the same complain about how gamers feel that Nintendo is stealing the people's money when they aren't forcing anyone to.
It would be like complaining about the iTunes store, Napster or any service that offers downloadable media for a price...
"Oh, but I already have Pirates of the Caribbean on DVD! Why do I need to buy a 10 dollar, low quality version just so I can play it on my iPod? Apple is the suck!"
"Why buy the MP3 when I can have the CD?"
