Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 02:00:25 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on November 13, 2006, 02:30:00 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 13, 2006, 03:22:51 PM
(seriously though, I hate reviewers, nearly all of them. Especially when it comes to Zelda. As if I'm on the fence about Zelda)
Post by: Edfishy on November 13, 2006, 03:32:18 PM
Regardless, I'm up for another Zelda adventure (Can't get enough of it) and even though I'll be getting the the Boomerang, Hookshot, and Magic Mirror all over again, it sounds (or... reads?) like it'll be a blast.
Heck, at this point, I'd take "A Link to the Past: Master Quest".
Post by: Dasmos on November 13, 2006, 03:52:26 PM
QuoteDid you even read it? He says in the review it will take over 60 hours to complete.
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
It took the reviewer 35 hrs to beat it.
Post by: mantidor on November 13, 2006, 04:02:40 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 13, 2006, 04:07:03 PM
Post by: zakkiel on November 13, 2006, 04:36:18 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 13, 2006, 04:40:57 PM
The guy has played 35 hours and it doesn't seem like he beat the game. He says 60 hours to complete it in its entirety, which I found doubtful; it will probably take longer. We'll see how long it takes to beat first, and who knows how long it'll take to unlock everything.
How long it takes really doesn't matter to me, though. However long it lasts, I'll savor every moment of it.
Post by: xanrastafari on November 13, 2006, 04:48:13 PM
See how silly that is?
Post by: Ceric on November 13, 2006, 05:07:37 PM
Post by: Viewtiful mario on November 13, 2006, 05:31:49 PM
Quote
Hm, I'm hoping he's ommiting a bunch of information, because one thing I was really hoping for in this next Zelda was the inclusion of many more unique items. So far it sounds like another Ocarina of Time, which got just about everything from A Link to The Past.
Well, it was stated that all the items will have new functions, maby he didn't reveal anything new because he didn't want to spoil anything.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 13, 2006, 05:45:58 PM
Well, I was sort of kidding, but A Link to the Past IS one of my lesser Zeldas (I really like side quests and NPC interaction and such, and ALttP is almost entirely quest and fighting), but I still love it. I mostly just dislike the way he states that in the beginning, as if it's relevant. It's like he's saying from the start that Twilight Princess is inferior, which gives the rest of the review a sour taste. I didn't need to know that, no one does. It's irrelevant.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 13, 2006, 06:13:48 PM
Thread is irrelevant.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 06:26:01 PM
Quote
But after running a critical path through the entire game, there's no doubt that this is the longest Zelda game ever made. I can easily see the playtime rising to the 60-hour mark if you try to accomplish everything that the game has to offer -- and trust me, you'll want to.
Sure sounds like me he beat the game, and only said if you try to accomplish everything the game has to offer that it could be 60 hrs, meaning side quests. If anything though he isn't really clear, but it is not due to misreading.
Oh yeah Link to the Past is the best Zelda of all time, so take that Hostile!
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 13, 2006, 06:33:56 PM
But A Link to the Past is not the best Zelda game. Link's Awakening is. This is scientific fact.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 06:36:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Okay, so he did beat the game. I even read that part, wonder how I missed it (his first sentence is what threw me off). :P
But A Link to the Past is not the best Zelda game. Link's Awakening is. This is scientific fact.
Yeah I can now see where it would throw people off, the review isn't the best written one but hey might as well get some thoughts from someone who has played it all the way through. Also you are so wrong, Link to the Past is the best, because, well it is. So take that!
Post by: Ceric on November 13, 2006, 06:39:25 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 06:41:47 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on November 13, 2006, 06:50:10 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 13, 2006, 07:00:37 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 13, 2006, 07:23:31 PM
I'm not complaining about the score. I didn't even look at the score. I'm just complaining about the poorly written review. And really I don't care that much, but the comparison to A Link to the Past (whether or not you think it's the best Zelda, and I don't, and that's a personal opinion, to each his own boat) annoyed me for some reason.
Post by: Artimus on November 13, 2006, 08:35:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Link's Awakening influened Ocarina of Time a lot more than A Link to the Past did, seems to me. I could go into detail, but I really don't want to get into it if I don't have to.
Except that LttP came out before Link's Awakening, so therefore LA owes a ton more to LttP than Ocarina does to it. The difference between Zelda 1 and LttP is far greater than LA to Ocarina.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 13, 2006, 09:58:40 PM
A Link to the Past was basically all fighting and puzzle solving, with few things to do outside of it (almost everything you did outside of the dungeon led you right to the next dungeon). I think Ocarina took a lot of influence from Link's Awakening, in that sense.
Not to say they're not influenced by A Link to the Past. Of course they are, and heavily at that. But I think that influence is mostly carry-over from the first game, which established that method of gameplay. A Link to the Past heavily improved upon it, but Link's Awakening and Ocarina of Time were the games that really changed it into what it is today, by adding the things that they did.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 10:16:41 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 13, 2006, 10:27:30 PM
here yah go
Even with his minor nitpicks the game sounds absolutely stunning (he actually has passion incorporated into the review!). I especially can't wait to experience the story, especially after reading this quote.
Quote
Still, the amount of twists and surprises keep it fresh, and the story is not clichéd and has some of the best pay offs in gaming history.
I really shouldn't have read this review, I am getting all giddy.
Post by: The Omen on November 13, 2006, 11:15:29 PM
Quote
Oh yeah Link to the Past is the best Zelda of all time, so take that Hostile!
That's true.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 14, 2006, 03:12:38 AM
I personally find Link's Awakening to be higher on my Fav Games list than A Link to the Past...But that isn't because of the technical or content-oriented superiority of the game, but because I thoroughly enjoy what separates Link's Awakening from other games in the Zelda series (and in other games period)...Each of these games is amazing and unique in their own right, and to try and say "Such and such is the best, hands-down" destroys the aura of what makes the Zelda series so special...
Post by: Ceric on November 14, 2006, 03:46:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
...(almost everything you did outside of the dungeon led you right to the next dungeon)...
You know ironically though that sounds almost exactly like my experience with OoT. I can see where the parallels can be drawn between LttP and TP. With the whole Twilight world and everything. Personally I'm waiting for a true remake of the original. Wooden sword and all. I hate this you have the master sword for doing squat stuff. It's the Master Sword. Suppose to be the strongest sword in that universe. It comes of weak. I liked that sword progression among other things. (Actually I liked all the item progression in the original. (Blue->Red Candle, Blue->Red Ring, Regular->Silver Arrow, Wand->Wand w/ Spellbook, Key->Master Key) Thinking back the original is still a tighter package in my mind.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 14, 2006, 07:30:27 AM
Really, A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening had equal influence on Ocarina of Time, the way I see it. I just feel that Link's Awakening introduced more that was new, and gave more depth to the series, whereas A Link to the Past improved upon the formula significantly.
It's hard to judge, and it's only opinion anyway. But I agree with Bill. There's no arguing over which is the best Zelda, because then you defeat the purpose. I just didn't like the way he stated his favorite in the review, right at the start.
(I really like the look of that other review, though. I skimmed through it, and while one or two things bothered me (him dismissing previous Zelda stories), it seemed much more passionate and genuine. I can't wait to read through it properly, I know it'll get me ultra-hyped.)
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2006, 08:09:11 AM
I love LttP and OoT but they're not my favourites because I don't really care for the pacing at the end. It seems once you get to the new "world" in those games it starts just being dungeons one after another. Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask have a more balanced pace. After every dungeon you usually have a few extra things to do before the next one. You get a break of sorts. I enjoy dungeons but find them to be very demanding. They're intense. I usually play games in sessions of a couple of hours and I virtually never play two dungeons in one sitting. I like to have some time to fart around and do something a little more relaxing in between the dungeons.
Post by: JonLeung on November 14, 2006, 08:12:42 AM
And since Ian recently posted, I was curious if this has yet convinced Ian to pick the Wii version over the GCN version. I think it was him who was adamant on getting the GCN version because of the controls.
And I'd like to point out that this past year, I'd forgotten that a Zelda game was coming out. No, I knew that The Legend Of Zelda: Twilight Princess was going to be available for the Wii (and GCN) and had it pre-ordered, but what I mean is that I'd forgotten that there's a game in one of the best game franchises ever (and my personal favorite franchise) coming out, which Nintendo is boasting is better than any other, even OoT. All the bitching about tacked-on controls and left-handed/right-handedness and mirrored worlds and the availability of GCN version, all that pointless bickering on these and other boards made me forget that I'll be playing a Zelda game soon. I was on the side of "I don't care" on the mirrored worlds issue and I was confident enough in the controls yet I never really thought much about actually playing the game.
If that makes sense.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2006, 08:39:20 AM
Why pay over $250 for a new console for a game I can get on a console I already own? Zelda is the only Wii launch game I'm really interested in so I might as well wait for a price cut. It's good to hear the game controls well but unless the Cube version controls really poorly that isn't worth a new console purchase. Besides I haven't pre-ordered so I'm pretty sh!t out of luck of getting a Wii now anyway.
It is really good though to hear that a game designed initially for a more traditional control scheme has been converted to motion control seemlessly. This gives me much more optimism about what can be done with the Wii controller. I was really afraid that forced remote usage was going to completely bork potential classic Nintendo games for no reason. I still need to try it out for myself if Nintendo ever puts a demo in a store in my area.
Post by: mantidor on November 14, 2006, 08:51:50 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 14, 2006, 09:18:35 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on November 14, 2006, 09:21:14 AM
Post by: JonLeung on November 14, 2006, 09:53:53 AM
I honestly don't see why "I'm going right, but I should be going left!" is an issue. Handedness may slightly be more but not to me.
Actually, forget it. I'm not participating in that discussion ever again. I'm going to have fun when the game comes out and not fret about it.
Post by: mantidor on November 14, 2006, 10:28:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Miyamoto, a lefty himself, has said that it's hard for him to play left-handed. I'm sure he had the opportunity to play left-handed without the mirror mode as well. And Miyamoto doesn't strike me as someone who would just say that...he strikes me as someone who would tell the developers to fix it if it was a problem.
he strikes me as ambidextrous, and as a business man who would prefer to cater to the majority obviously, which means I don't take into consideration what he has said about handedness in games, if he thinks a lefty would be ok he's insane, or just not an exclusive lefty. Theres absolutely no way I will be able to point with my right hand no matter the game, and theres no need for hands-on experience in that regard, because Ive been using laser pointers all my life, as well as lightguns. If you think its such a not big deal, switch hands and tell me how confortable would that be.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 14, 2006, 10:39:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Miyamoto, a lefty himself, has said that it's hard for him to play left-handed. I'm sure he had the opportunity to play left-handed without the mirror mode as well. And Miyamoto doesn't strike me as someone who would just say that...he strikes me as someone who would tell the developers to fix it if it was a problem.
he strikes me as ambidextrous, and as a business man who would prefer to cater to the majority obviously, which means I don't take into consideration what he has said about handedness in games, if he thinks a lefty would be ok he's insane, or just not an exclusive lefty. Theres absolutely no way I will be able to point with my right hand no matter the game, and theres no need for hands-on experience in that regard, because Ive been using laser pointers all my life, as well as lightguns. If you think its such a not big deal, switch hands and tell me how confortable would that be.
Mantidor, I know I read on other hands on impressions that lefties did try the game and had little to no problem controlling it. Wish I could find the link though, perhaps it was on IGN or something? Maybe someone else here can direct you.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 14, 2006, 10:48:29 AM
Exactly. Exactly. Actually, every time I replayed Ocarina of Time I stopped at the Water Temple because it became too dungeon-centric at that point. The pacing and side-quests were much more relaxed and gradual in the first half of the game.
I can see how it's good that he states his favorite Zelda for reference, but he compares it to Twilight Princess, saying that he prefers A Link to the Past. That could be excluded, or at least saved for the end. That's going to influence a person's mindset when they read it. I prefer to start on a blank slate with a game, and see how it compares when I'm done. Not the other way around.
EDIT:
Regarding the other review:
I really liked this, and now I'm really hyped. A few things about it bothered me (mostly his condescension toward Minish Cap and Wind Waker, calling their dungeons meagre and their side quests "fairly decent". That annoyed me. I liked the dungeons in both games, and they have some of the best side quests in the series. So that unnecessary criticism ticked me off), but I can pass that off to how SHEERLY UNCOMPARABLY AWESOME Twilight Princess will be, so I'll let it go.
His review of the graphics is fair, but I get a nasty taste in my mouth when people say that crap like Oblivion looks better than Twilight Princess. Is it more technically capable? Yeah, but the art direction is sh!t. It's like comparing chicken scrawl to Van Gogh or Monet. It's disgusting.
Anyway, pretty good review. Really, I'm just naturally opposed to reviews in general: I hate movie reviews, game reviews, everything. I like to discover things for myself, and I don't trust reviewers at all. Trust me, they seldom ever know what they're talking about. I view the profession as fundamentally flawed, and therefore pay no regard to it.
Post by: mantidor on November 14, 2006, 11:09:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Mantidor, I know I read on other hands on impressions that lefties did try the game and had little to no problem controlling it. Wish I could find the link though, perhaps it was on IGN or something? Maybe someone else here can direct you.
little to no problem? thats simpy impossible, period. I know it would be ackward for sure, my real question is how much and how long will the adapting time be, I've already decided to try the stick with the right hand, which doesn't seem an uphill challenge but its also not something easy, Ive barely used it in Pikmin, so I don't know. The other option, of grabbing the controller the normal way is just not going to work for me. Also windyman never answered me if the mirroring was needless at the end, because with all these recent impressions and reviews it sure seems like it, I hope some review adress that.
Post by: zakkiel on November 14, 2006, 11:16:44 AM
QuoteWhy?
little to no problem? thats simpy impossible, period.
Post by: Viewtiful mario on November 14, 2006, 11:40:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I found a much better review thanks to Gonintendo, definately more informative (and yet again with no big spoilers).
here yah go
Even with his minor nitpicks the game sounds absolutely stunning (he actually has passion incorporated into the review!). I especially can't wait to experience the story, especially after reading this quote.Quote
Still, the amount of twists and surprises keep it fresh, and the story is not clichéd and has some of the best pay offs in gaming history.
I really shouldn't have read this review, I am getting all giddy.
That revew really pisses me off for some reason. Nearly every revew I read on it that doasn't give it a perfect score is so nitpicky that it's reduculus! The only bad thing he says about it is that the camra is imperfect at times (name a game that isn't), the graphics arn't up to PS3 or 360 standerds (we get it, the Wii isn't a PS3!!! why penilize it for something that doasn't effect the gameplay?) and something about the music isn't "all live-recorded, orchestrated music" you're penilizing it for that?
So yah, this guy is so nitpicky it hurts. I don't see how he cold give anything a perfect score, it seems like he's one of thoes people that you just can't fully please.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2006, 11:58:22 AM
I was unimpressed with Super Mario Sunshine largely for one reason: SSBM looked better. So did Rogue Leader. Super Mario Sunshine didn't look as good as Cube launch games. It should have. There really is no excuse. With Twilight Princess it should be the same thing. Does it look like something that pushes the Gamecube hardware to the limit?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 14, 2006, 11:58:55 AM
BEWARE OF FAKE ZELDA FANS
Post by: xanrastafari on November 14, 2006, 12:29:12 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 14, 2006, 12:33:32 PM
Quote
The visuals are great, but aren't the best. To be blunt, if the game was strictly for GCN or for Wii, and was only developed solely for one or the other, I could see this being a perfect title. It's damn close, but it is not perfect, but it is the best Zelda title ever.
He says it's the greatest Zelda game ever made, shouldn't that make everyone happy. If his reason for not giving it a perfect score was because of graphics then who cares, the guys a graphics whore then, but for the rest of us that dont care about the graphics this means the game is a perfect 10/10.
Post by: Viewtiful mario on November 14, 2006, 02:08:25 PM
Quote
Regarding graphics can we all agree that since this is pretty much a Cube game that at the very least it should look as good as Resident Evil 4? What I'm hearing is that it isn't that good and ideally it should be the best looking Cube game there is considering how much later after RE4 it is being released.
I was unimpressed with Super Mario Sunshine largely for one reason: SSBM looked better. So did Rogue Leader. Super Mario Sunshine didn't look as good as Cube launch games. It should have. There really is no excuse. With Twilight Princess it should be the same thing. Does it look like something that pushes the Gamecube hardware to the limit?
I'm 100% shure that TP pushes the gamecube just as much as RE4 did. It's just that Zelda takes place mostly in wide open places while RE4's enviroments take place in relitivly small areas letting them put more pixles or whatever into smaller areas. Therefore Zelda has it's Graphics spread across wider areas while RE4 's power lies in smaller areas letting it use more power on perticular objects.
I hope I made myself clear because I'm not so shure.
And about Super Mario Sunshine and SSBM, they both have different art styles. While SSBM replicates the stiching in mario's overalls, SMS goes for a cartoony and(dare I say it) kiddie look. I'm sorry if you can't make out all the hairs in mario's mustach.
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 14, 2006, 02:28:47 PM
It's the same reason why Majora's Mask got lower scores then Ocarina of Time. Even though Majora's Mask was a much better game, since everyone had already played Ocarina of Time they had something to compare it to and so critics were alot more harsh on Majora's Mask.
Post by: Nile Boogie on November 14, 2006, 02:38:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
It's the same reason why Majora's Mask got lower scores then Ocarina of Time. Even though Majora's Mask was a much better game...
Let not us speak blasphemy so close to the coming... although I do see your point.
Post by: Viewtiful mario on November 14, 2006, 02:52:15 PM
Quote
It's the same reason why Majora's Mask got lower scores then Ocarina of Time. Even though Majora's Mask was a much better game, since everyone had already played Ocarina of Time they had something to compare it to and so critics were alot more harsh on Majora's Mask.
I'd have to disagree, the whole 3 day system just lead to a horrable save system and the annoyance of having to wait for a long time if something happened when you wanted to be apart of a sidequest that took place late in the day. Plus the bosses wern't as creative or as fun to fight as OOT.
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 14, 2006, 02:56:53 PM
Plus fighting Goht as Goron Link is the greatest Zelda boss fight ever.
Post by: Viewtiful mario on November 14, 2006, 03:03:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
You can use the Ocarina to play that one song to jump ahead 12 hours, it only take about a minute to get yourself to the third day so it doesn't take long to get to any time of the day.
Plus fighting Goht as Goron Link is the greatest Zelda boss fight ever.
yah but that boss fight was, like, it everything else was simple.
and as for the time thing, th ocerana jumped you right into thenext half of the day. It didn't help if you were waiting for something that happens during the same day half. like if it was 6 o'clock and you were waiting for something that happened 5 hours later.
Post by: Renny on November 14, 2006, 04:34:08 PM
7.9
Post by: mantidor on November 14, 2006, 04:36:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteWhy?
little to no problem? thats simpy impossible, period.
Not for gamers anyway. I suppose a lefty with no experience in games will be more confortable by trying the stick with his/her right hand.
Regarding the graphics, TP has a bigger... (crap, I forgot the term, you know, that you can see very distant objects and the horizon line is very far away) than RE4, I never expected Zelda to look better, it just couldn't.
And Majora's Mask is awesome! the saving system is good, it makes the game harder, but I thought the problem with Zelda games were that they were easy, the saving system not only gave the game a more old-school "you can't save whenever you want" difficulty without being terribly hard, it also let the game had the best interaction that you could have with NPCs, as much care and attention TP has, I personally think it can't top what MM did, is very special to know what the people are going to do, and how they have different schedules and reactions, it made them more like real people instead of talking robots like most NPC in all games are.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 14, 2006, 04:42:16 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 14, 2006, 04:43:44 PM
Post by: mantidor on November 14, 2006, 04:48:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Draw distance?
That was the one! with the draw distance the game has, it actually looks really good, anyone reviewing graphics should take that into consideration.
Post by: Edfishy on November 14, 2006, 05:09:19 PM
Besides which, we really didn't need a Zelda at the Wii's launch. Just the uniqueness of the Wiimote itself is more than enough reason to get the system before any killer apps are released.
The GameCube already had its chance with a Zelda game, and did exceptionally well with the kiddy-style Wind Waker, but it was impossible for me to convince die-hard gamers (read: Sony fans) that the game was actually any good. They scoffed that it was merely a kid's game at first glance of the game.
The Wii, and the Wii alone really deserved a "fresh-look" for Zelda all to itself. I can only imagine how much more attention would have been on Zelda: Twilight Princess if Nintendo had even attempted to rival the competition's "next-gen" games with 4.5 gigs (rather than the GCN's 1.5 gigs) of pure high definition Zelda. If nothing else it would have given Nintendo fans that much more to huff about. Now we have to fight off constant "nitpickings" about low graphics. Thank you, GameCube. You still plague us to this day.
Sorry about the rant, but I'm really feeling this is going to be a bite in the rear-end and a subject of discussion in five years. Maybe we'll have "Zelda: Majora's Mask Returns" to look forward to.
Post by: Kairon on November 14, 2006, 05:25:36 PM
However, the decision to not concentrate on graphics was made by Miyamoto. Readint the Iwata asks interviews on Zelda, the game itself seemed nowhere near polished in Fall 2005 and they had a long ways to go.
It may be that Nintendo, even with that year extension, may not have had the energy or time to dedicate to revamping the graphics. After all, this is why Miyamoto elected to make link right-handed: it was to avoid having to redo art and animation and spend more money and lose more time!
Oh, but don't worry about that 5 years down the line thing. In 5 years, we'll be talking about the gameplay, not the graphics.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 14, 2006, 06:05:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
That's the best reason I've heard yet to have discontinued the GC version Edfishy!
However, the decision to not concentrate on graphics was made by Miyamoto. Readint the Iwata asks interviews on Zelda, the game itself seemed nowhere near polished in Fall 2005 and they had a long ways to go.
It may be that Nintendo, even with that year extension, may not have had the energy or time to dedicate to revamping the graphics. After all, this is why Miyamoto elected to make link right-handed: it was to avoid having to redo art and animation and spend more money and lose more time!
Oh, but don't worry about that 5 years down the line thing. In 5 years, we'll be talking about the gameplay, not the graphics.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Kairon is right if that 2nd review is any indication the game seems already destined to be a classic, like about every other Zelda game. Heck look at Ocarina, even with all the time that has gone by it still has held up pretty well (at least alot of us seem to think so). I did not know that about Miyamoto deciding to not worry too much about upgrading the visuals. But it makes perfect sense, I think we tend to forget that there is tons of money spent on developing a game, the longer it takes the more money it costs and the harder it is to make that cash back, not to mention one of the biggest factors being burning out your designers! So I think adding Wii controls and using it as a flagship game was a good idea (wish they still would have canned the GC one though to not split the userbase), because now they have something to build off of for the next Zelda and have a head start.
Post by: zakkiel on November 14, 2006, 06:10:12 PM
QuoteI'm not sure what the issue is. Nothing about the game prevents you from switching to whatever hand configuration is most comfortable for you. There's nothing that says you have to hold the remote in the same hand that Link holds his sword. Sword slashes are just waggles, either way.
Not for gamers anyway. I suppose a lefty with no experience in games will be more confortable by trying the stick with his/her right hand.
Post by: TrueNerd on November 14, 2006, 09:39:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Miyamoto, a lefty himself, has said that it's hard for him to play left-handed. I'm sure he had the opportunity to play left-handed without the mirror mode as well. And Miyamoto doesn't strike me as someone who would just say that...he strikes me as someone who would tell the developers to fix it if it was a problem.
he strikes me as ambidextrous, and as a business man who would prefer to cater to the majority obviously, which means I don't take into consideration what he has said about handedness in games, if he thinks a lefty would be ok he's insane, or just not an exclusive lefty. Theres absolutely no way I will be able to point with my right hand no matter the game, and theres no need for hands-on experience in that regard, because Ive been using laser pointers all my life, as well as lightguns. If you think its such a not big deal, switch hands and tell me how confortable would that be.
Here's what Aonuma said about Miyamoto's experience
Page 2 is where the relevant stuff is..
Quote
GP: Speaking of Link being left-handed, there's a rumor that Miyamoto-san himself is left-handed. So it's interesting to see that the Link in the Wii version of Twilight Princess is right-handed. Was there any sort of dissent from Miyamoto-san over this?
(Laughs). Actually, it was Mr. Miyamoto's idea to do this with the Wii version, so he wasn't resistant to this at all. And while Mr. Miyamoto is left-handed, I am right-handed, not that that has anything to do with it either. (Laughs). In fact, when Mr. Miyamoto plays with the Wii controller, he holds the Wii remote in his right hand and that was one of the reasons why Link is right-handed in that version. We just felt that it was much more natural to swing your sword that way.
Because Mr. Miyamoto was able to hold the remote in his right hand and swing it without it feeling unnatural, he felt that other left-handed people would do the same. He also felt that because of the way game controllers have been made up to this point, most gamers would want the analog stick in their left hand and swing with their right, so they would be able to play without any problems as well.
I genuinely think it would be more then doable for me to flick my wrist and occasionally aim at stuff with my weak hand. I don't think instant accuracy is going to be required in Twilight Princess, nor do I think the Wiimote activity is constant enough to be tiresome on either hand. Granted, I haven't played it yet. Just speculating.
Post by: mantidor on November 15, 2006, 05:33:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteI'm not sure what the issue is. Nothing about the game prevents you from switching to whatever hand configuration is most comfortable for you. There's nothing that says you have to hold the remote in the same hand that Link holds his sword. Sword slashes are just waggles, either way.
Not for gamers anyway. I suppose a lefty with no experience in games will be more confortable by trying the stick with his/her right hand.
If I hold the remote lefty way, I have to use the stick in the right hand, which is hard for a gamer who is used to use it in his left hand all the time, if I hold it the righty way, I have to point with the right hand, which is very ackward, and for some of us, practically impossible. The first is the lesser of evils, but its not going to be perfectly intuitive right out of the box like everyone is saying.
As much as people say that it doesn't matter which hand you use the remote for this game, Nintendo did mirror the whole game, its just contradicting, I don't understand why they did it anyway.
And that interview is exactly the one who made me think he's ambidextrous, just by him saying that he was ok with holding the remote in his right hand, that doesnt sound to me like an exclusive lefty. Really which part of the controller is going to need your dominant hand more?, the nunchuck with its basic motion detection and stick or the remote which points and has a more precise motion detection method? I think its obvious.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 15, 2006, 07:35:57 AM
Well I figure the Wii version is what will make the top ten so technically it won't be three Cube titles. The Cube version is probably going to do a lot worse in ratings because the reviewers will have already played the game and thus won't enjoy it like someone who is playing TP for the first time on the Cube will. Reviewers also forget that they get videogame consoles FOR FREE and thus will completely miss the significance of the game being playable without the need to purchase new hardware. They probably just think there's no point and will consider the game superfluous because they're not who the game is aimed at.
"Besides which, we really didn't need a Zelda at the Wii's launch. Just the uniqueness of the Wiimote itself is more than enough reason to get the system before any killer apps are released."
Are you kidding me? Without Zelda the Wii launch lineup looks horrible. WiiSports and ExciteTruck? So what are you supposed to do the day after launch when you're bored of those games? I'd argue that the very reason Zelda even is a Wii title in the first place is because Nintendo wasn't confident they could get something really great available in time so they converted a Cube title to fill the gap until the really awesome Wii titles are available.
Post by: ThePerm on November 15, 2006, 07:42:05 AM
Post by: mantidor on November 15, 2006, 08:24:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
also, as a lefty, i must say I've been using the mouse right handed for like 16 years.
heresy! I'm kind of a lefty zealot
I never could use it with the right hand, but given practice, I'm sure I would be able to, however the truth is that it would be like wasting potential, and I would never achieve the precision I have now, well, mice don't need an incredible precision for normal tasks, but I'm sure Ill be less good at FPS games if I invert hands. Thats why lefties have the stereotype of being "clumsier", we aren't clumsier, we are just forced to use the wrong hand most of the time with embarrassing results. I always thought I just sucked at billiard games, that it wasn't for me, until it occurred me to invert hands and voila! I was suddenly decent! not good, because that requires practice, but I could actually hit the ball and make it go where I wanted.
Post by: Artimus on November 15, 2006, 08:58:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Well I figure the Wii version is what will make the top ten so technically it won't be three Cube titles. The Cube version is probably going to do a lot worse in ratings because the reviewers will have already played the game and thus won't enjoy it like someone who is playing TP for the first time on the Cube will. Reviewers also forget that they get videogame consoles FOR FREE and thus will completely miss the significance of the game being playable without the need to purchase new hardware. They probably just think there's no point and will consider the game superfluous because they're not who the game is aimed at.
They review games not your wallet. The fact you need to own a Wii should not enter into their reviews in the slightest. It makes absolutely no sense to do so.
Post by: White Mage on November 15, 2006, 08:58:55 AM
I'd been meaning to post this for quite some time, but hadn't gotten around to it. On November 4th, Nintendo's World Store in Time Square opened up its Wii demo stations. They had 4 playing Wii Sports downstairs and 6 playing various first and third party games for a total of 11. One of the ones upstairs was playing Twilight Princess. I think it was only there on the 4th and has since been replaced.
Nintendo's website sent me an email inviting me to come play, and since I live in the area I went with a friend. It opened at 9am and we got there about fifteen minutes afterwards. Lines were already long. After we played Wii Sports to get the hang of the controller, we got in line for TP. After 3 hours, we were treated to five minutes of gameplay. It was the demo level that has been shown over and over with the fire boss at the end. My friend got to through the level and to the door to the boss and I was able to fight and defeat the fiery beast.
My very brief impressions are that it is much better than I was anticipating. As others have stated, I too had a fear of the new control scheme not being precise and not quite what Nintendo has been promising. My worries are gone. I was thrown into just 5 minutes of gameplay at the beginning of a boss battle, not the optimal choice to get to play. After just a few seconds of running around and aiming the bow it was second nature. The graphics are beautiful. I haven't really seen any 360 or PS3 games so I can't compare, but I couldn't really ask for anything more than the game gave me. The aiming was fluid (albeit a bit touchy, but I think Nintendo had the sensitivity up fairly high), swiping felt natural, and switching items on the control pad was a breeze. I appeared to be one of the few people that beat the boss (thanks to my friend for getting me there) and the Nintendo World Store rep seemed impressed before she snatched the lovely Wiimote from my hands.
I know people are skeptical, but please give it a chance, it really is like nothing you've ever played before---in a very very good way.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 15, 2006, 09:17:38 AM
Quote
Ian sez: Regarding graphics can we all agree that since this is pretty much a Cube game that at the very least it should look as good as Resident Evil 4? What I'm hearing is that it isn't that good and ideally it should be the best looking Cube game there is considering how much later after RE4 it is being released.
This brings us to one of Nintendo's philosophies on Wii. Genyo Takeda said:
Quote
After speaking with Nintendo's development partners, I became keenly aware of the fact that there is no end to the desire of those who just want more. Give them one, they ask for two. Give them two, and next time they will ask for five instead of three. Then they want ten, thirty, a hundred, their desire growing exponentially. Giving in to this will lead us nowhere in the end.
Edit: Nah, I'll let the quote speak for itself.
Post by: Edfishy on November 15, 2006, 10:08:47 AM
Quote
After speaking with Nintendo's development partners, I became keenly aware of the fact that there is no end to the desire of those who just want more. Give them one, they ask for two. Give them two, and next time they will ask for five instead of three. Then they want ten, thirty, a hundred, their desire growing exponentially. Giving in to this will lead us nowhere in the end.
And yet Nintendo persists to constantly make the same series of games over and over again. How many Pokemon clones have they made... this month?
I would agree on the graphical-side of the quote though. If gamers were satisfied with 32-bit games in the past, than what has changed? Only the desire to become increasingly more enveloped by the games. Hard-core gamers want the games to feel more real, and when a game can envelope you through amazing visuals, sound and realism, like Company of Heroes, I'm not sure I can complain too much.
However, I feel that by making a game look and sound more real, you're just playing a trick on the mind. It's essentially an easy way for hard-core gamers to justify their involvement with the game, so that passer-by's can say, "Wow, that looks so real", thereby giving the gamer instant approval for fiddling with buttons and joysticks.
Playing older games like Asteroids, Mario, Zelda, and the like requires a large suspension of belief to really enjoy, and is comparable to the old black & white movies of the 20's & 30s. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on to make those pixels fly across the screen, and you must ignore all of those low-graphic short-comings if you're to kill Bowser and save the Princess. Low-graphic games, like a good book or an old movie, allows more of your own imagination to fill in the gray areas that the designers couldn't fill due to technical limitations, like why the heck does Mario live in the desert and fight Turtle-mutants?.
The more developers are filling in those blank spaces, the less our own imagination is involved with the game, and the less we're getting out of the deal (beside's an occasional adrenaline rush).
Ed's oppinion.
Post by: Kairon on November 15, 2006, 10:57:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I'm sure I would be able to, however the truth is that it would be like wasting potential
Mantidor, the wasted potential is in one of your hands being weak and relatively unused. This is what happens when I move to a dual analog control system: my right hand which has been pressing simple buttons all its life cannot handle the task of handling a sensitive and highly important analog stick. In fact, I often play "Southpaw" in Halo even though I am right handed because my I need to give the more precise aiming jobn to my left thumb which is more capable of fine movements of that sort. My right hand just jams the thumbstick in a general direction for movement, using the right analog stick as a glorified N64 c-button setup. I am right-handed.
The Wii unlocks this by giving us more potential for input and movement. In a way I envy left-handers because they are challenged to use their right hand more often than us right handers are challenged to use our left. You guys are lucky, you're one step closer to ambidextrous, and full hand potential!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on November 15, 2006, 11:41:23 AM
QuoteOh, there's a dilemma there, because lefties have gotten used to using their dominant hand for the analog. But it has nothing to do with mirroring Zelda.
If I hold the remote lefty way, I have to use the stick in the right hand, which is hard for a gamer who is used to use it in his left hand all the time, if I hold it the righty way, I have to point with the right hand, which is very ackward, and for some of us, practically impossible.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 15, 2006, 12:34:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Edfishy
And yet Nintendo persists to constantly make the same series of games over and over again. How many Pokemon clones have they made... this month?
Ha ha, this is true, but as you went on to say, I think his point is more about graphics (and content in general). Tycho on Penny Arcade was recently complaining that Gears of War's matchmaking isn't on par with Halo 2. He considers what is supposedly the best console FPS the baseline for online matchmaking. How many more people would buy Gears of War if it had even better matchmaking than Halo 2? How much would it cost to have that?
In an even more extreme example, you've got Matt on IGN requesting voice acting in Zelda. How many more customers would Zelda draw in if Nintendo spent $5 million on voice acting? Some games are beginning to go for a-list Hollywood talent. What would $20 million in voice acting get Nintendo?
Sequels are still important, but refreshing them instead of always adding on to them (and coming up with brand-new game concepts) may be a more realistic solution business-wise.
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 15, 2006, 12:58:11 PM
Gamerz Edge Twilight Princess review
I love what he says at the end, probobly the smartest thing I've heard a reviewer say in a long time.
Quote
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is a very rare experience. It’s a game where all of the pieces seem to fall into place in just the way necessary to create so seamless, so addictive, so unique an experience that it just feels right from start to finish. Apart from the classic Zelda action, of which there is plenty—more than ever before—in the game, Twilight Princess introduces some truly innovative gameplay elements and improves upon existing ones with an uncommon level of polish and attention. The game is simply overflowing with creativity; with its brilliantly-designed dungeons, legendary boss battles, engaging storyline, and rich cast of characters, it easily surpasses nearly every other game in its genre.
That said, some people are concerned primarily about its contentious graphical presentation; the sometimes-blurry textures. Do they hurt the overall appearance of the game? Yes. Perhaps the most important question, however, is whether they hurt the game enough to place it below the status of other “ten out of ten” legendary games. Here, the answer is a resounding “no.” The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is one of the greatest videogames ever created. It isn’t perfect—no game can make that claim—however, Twilight Princess is head and shoulders above nearly every other game I have ever played. It’s indubitably better than Ocarina of Time. It blows away The Wind Waker. And it has a sense of personality and careful balance that instill the player with a serious drive to complete it—something that many other very long adventure games, such as Oblivion, lack.
This is the first game that I have ever awarded a 10 in my six years as a reviewer, and for good reason. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is one of the defining videogames of our time. It is unquestionably one of the finest games ever released, and it is one that any gamer should experience regardless of the circumstances.
Post by: Artimus on November 15, 2006, 01:22:02 PM
http://www.gamerz-edge.com/wii/reviews/zelda1.html
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 15, 2006, 01:29:47 PM
Anyway, I'm extrememly happy to hear that TP has awesome minigames. Bombchu-bowling <3 <3 <3
ALSO, for the peopel that dock the graphics: this IS a GameCube game. But not only that, it's an open-ended SINGLE-DISC gamecube game. The only other game that looks better is Resident Evil 4, but that takes up two discs. That means they have more room to put data on the disc, which could account for the high quality textures and whatnot. And seeing as how TP is many times larger than RE4 and features a complete, seamless world, I'd say it's the most technologically impressive GameCube game ever.
Post by: Viewtiful mario on November 15, 2006, 04:33:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
moar liek ARTIMUS FAIL ahahah reference children's books everyday
Anyway, I'm extrememly happy to hear that TP has awesome minigames. Bombchu-bowling <3 <3 <3
ALSO, for the peopel that dock the graphics: this IS a GameCube game. But not only that, it's an open-ended SINGLE-DISC gamecube game. The only other game that looks better is Resident Evil 4, but that takes up two discs. That means they have more room to put data on the disc, which could account for the high quality textures and whatnot. And seeing as how TP is many times larger than RE4 and features a complete, seamless world, I'd say it's the most technologically impressive GameCube game ever.
That and RE4 had voice acting which takes up a lot of space. In fact, all the 2 disk gamecube games are 2 disks because they veature a lot of spoken dialough (metal gear solid, Baiten kaitos, tales of symphonia) or because they're just badly ported (Ninja turtles, goldeneye RA, splinter cell CT).
Plus, I'm glad TP is still on the GC. I just convinced one of my firends of how cool it is and he's so excited that he's getting it for his gamecube (because he doasn't have a Wii and isn't getting one for a while). If they didn't have it for GC than he wouldn't be able to experiance the awsomness that is twilight princess.
Post by: mantidor on November 15, 2006, 05:29:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteOh, there's a dilemma there, because lefties have gotten used to using their dominant hand for the analog. But it has nothing to do with mirroring Zelda.
If I hold the remote lefty way, I have to use the stick in the right hand, which is hard for a gamer who is used to use it in his left hand all the time, if I hold it the righty way, I have to point with the right hand, which is very ackward, and for some of us, practically impossible.
well it isnt related, I was talking in general terms with the console, if Im concerned about TP, a game that really doesn't seems to need that much precision, you can imagine how I feel for Red steel or Metroid Prime 3, or basically any other game. Im going to need a long testing time with this thing, I hope I'll be able to rent it or something.
The mirroring of Zelda is a different issue, is just puzzling, I don't think any right handed would've have hated the game in its original form given the reviews we are reading so why do it in the first place? it doesn't seem to affect the game that much, the sword doesn't even follow exactly the waving of the remote, I doubt having Link, a third person character, with the sword in the other hand would make it less intuitive than moving your hand to your right and seeing Link moving the sword to the left.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 15, 2006, 09:34:05 PM
Post by: ThePerm on November 15, 2006, 09:54:15 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 15, 2006, 10:19:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
as far as graphics go...isnt it designed for a 1.5gb disk? theres no way the textures are going to be great for such a huge game, wait till Nintendo releases their next killer app.
Or better yet the next Zelda, since they have alot to build on, now that they have seemingly sucessfully implemented Wii controls in TP. I can't wait to see what the next Zelda holds given the larger disk!
Post by: nitsu niflheim on November 16, 2006, 04:09:03 AM
Now all I need is a Wii.
Post by: Jdub03 on November 16, 2006, 05:53:14 AM
Post by: IceCold on November 16, 2006, 12:35:46 PM
QuoteWell, when the N64 came out, I had a really hard time training my left thumb to use the analogue stick properly. Even so, it didn't take long to make it feel natural. You're in the same position now - for games like Metroid you'll have to use your right hand for the analogue stick and hold the remote in your left hand. It shouldn't be too hard..
well it isnt related, I was talking in general terms with the console, if Im concerned about TP, a game that really doesn't seems to need that much precision, you can imagine how I feel for Red steel or Metroid Prime 3, or basically any other game. Im going to need a long testing time with this thing, I hope I'll be able to rent it or something.
Post by: Martin Q. Blank on November 16, 2006, 06:54:48 PM
This will be the greatest game ever !!!
Post by: The Traveller on November 16, 2006, 07:08:42 PM
I may be forced to run through Oot again.. or not..
Post by: wandering on November 16, 2006, 07:14:08 PM
Quote
it also has to win back gamers who were disenchanted with 2003's controversial Wind Waker.
I stopped there.
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 12:03:24 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 12:36:53 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 17, 2006, 12:44:44 PM
The review
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 17, 2006, 12:50:26 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 12:53:42 PM
"8.8
Gameplay 8
Graphics 9
Sound 7
Value 9
Tilt 10
Twilight Princess contains the same expertly designed puzzles and time-tested gameplay that you've come to expect from the series, though parts of its presentation feel stuck in the past.
The Good: Compelling characters and story; outstanding world and puzzle design; longer than most action adventure games; terrific graphics, from an artistic perspective.
The Bad: Wii-specific elements feel tacked on; graphics and sound sometimes go from nostalgic to dated."
THIS ladies and gents, is why GameSpot sucks. The reviewer feels the game is worthy of a 10, but it only gets an 8.8. Why? Because the sound is weak. Say what you want about IGN, but they're not as stupid as GameSpot. Nowhere close. Not to mention GameSpot has the worst designed website in history.
Post by: Mario on November 17, 2006, 12:55:04 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 12:56:50 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 01:03:33 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on November 17, 2006, 01:08:19 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 01:17:16 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on November 17, 2006, 01:17:21 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on November 17, 2006, 01:43:05 PM
Thanks for the spoiler warning, I was about to read the review.
Post by: Jin-X on November 17, 2006, 01:50:09 PM
Gamerankings
Notice they have 9 reviews on record, 4 perfect scores, 4 in the 90s and only Gamespot's in the 80s.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 17, 2006, 02:17:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Well, stop being amazed. Looks like it isn't IGN who'll win the hate of all:
"8.8
Gameplay 8
Graphics 9
Sound 7
Value 9
Tilt 10
Twilight Princess contains the same expertly designed puzzles and time-tested gameplay that you've come to expect from the series, though parts of its presentation feel stuck in the past.
The Good: Compelling characters and story; outstanding world and puzzle design; longer than most action adventure games; terrific graphics, from an artistic perspective.
The Bad: Wii-specific elements feel tacked on; graphics and sound sometimes go from nostalgic to dated."
THIS ladies and gents, is why GameSpot sucks. The reviewer feels the game is worthy of a 10, but it only gets an 8.8. Why? Because the sound is weak. Say what you want about IGN, but they're not as stupid as GameSpot. Nowhere close. Not to mention GameSpot has the worst designed website in history.
I like how they say the controls are tacked on yet the majority of reviewers say it is implemented quite well. And what is with graphics going from nostalgia to dated? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 17, 2006, 02:25:37 PM
Post by: Jin-X on November 17, 2006, 02:28:04 PM
IGN review
Quote
8.0 Presentation
A truly epic new Zelda complete with a compelling, darker storyline, enhanced controls, and brand new gameplay mechanics. Lack of voice acting and orchestrated music are unfortunate.
8.5 Graphics
An absolutely gorgeous GameCube game. An enormous, detailed world brought to life via beautiful art. But Wii is still capable of much more, as the adventure's sometimes-blurry textures prove.
8.0 Sound
Again, where's the orchestrated music? Come on, Nintendo. Everything else is great, from the moody sound effects to the atmospheric MIDI compositions.
9.5 Gameplay
Superb. The tried-and-true Zelda gameplay mechanics are taken to new heights with the Wii remote and nunchuk. Overworld and temple designs are stellar. Classic Zelda reborn for a new generation.
9.5 Lasting Appeal
It'll keep you busy for at least 50 hours and you could spend double that in Nintendo's new Hyrule. So much to do and see that you'll be busy for weeks, if not months.
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 02:34:01 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on November 17, 2006, 02:37:28 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 02:37:32 PM
See, that's why you don't average. Sounds to me like Matt was very fair. I don't care about voice acting but he's right about orchestrated music (surely they're not afraid of not macking back the costs?). And hey, Nintendo has said they didn't improve the graphics from the GCN and the Wii is more powerful, 8.5 is pretty good for that.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 17, 2006, 02:37:47 PM
Post by: Jin-X on November 17, 2006, 02:39:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
You don't want to spoil the score IGN gave it overall?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Oops, my bad, it was a hasty cut and paste job.
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 17, 2006, 02:40:40 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 02:41:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
It got 9.5, I still fail to see why it didn't get a 10? So what if some of the textures are blurry, or if it doesn't have orchestrated music? Or those things that huge of a deal? Not to mention the fact he complained about lack of voices which I hope STAYS that way.
They need SOME space for the next Zelda game, or Mario game, I mean... C'MON!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 02:44:17 PM
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 02:46:03 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 17, 2006, 02:46:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I think you'll find Matt makes his overall ranking as inclusive of each factor as possible. He takes is VERY seriously, don't doubt that. He's trying to include all the factors as reasonably as possible.
Well it is alot more fair than the crappy Gamespot review, I guess my problem is that Resistance got a 9.1 or something, so you are telling me that TP is only .4 pts better than Resistance
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 17, 2006, 02:49:03 PM
If Resistance is ps3's 9.1, it's a weak 9.1, and TP's 9.5 is on a much higher strata.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 17, 2006, 02:51:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Review scores don't cross, platforms (ideally).
If Resistance is ps3's 9.1, it's a weak 9.1, and TP's 9.5 is on a much higher strata.
Well I guess that makes sense, I just hate to see TP take a hit on Gamerankings and drop below games it shouldn't be dropping below. Not like it really matters, but it is the thought that counts LOL.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 17, 2006, 02:52:25 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 02:55:23 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 17, 2006, 02:59:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
You can't blanket IGN reviews. At best you can across a single section, but not platforms. I doubt Matt would've given it 9.1 (and it's already down to 88.5 on GR).
It was kind of funny while waiting at Best Buy for a PS3, this Sony rep was bragging about how good of scores Resistance was getting, mainly because that was about the only game he could think of lol.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 17, 2006, 03:00:17 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on November 17, 2006, 03:00:51 PM
Post by: Crimm on November 17, 2006, 03:01:41 PM
Post by: Jin-X on November 17, 2006, 03:03:15 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 03:04:57 PM
Post by: Jin-X on November 17, 2006, 03:06:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
It's because Gamespot averages the individual scores. So sound and Gameplay are equal.
Like I said...
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 03:13:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
I agree with IGN on the music. Nintendo really needs to get into orchestrating their music. I can understand size limitations of a GC disk (since it was a GC game), but all Wii games that get the Zelda budget should be orchestrated from this moment forward.
You can't get dynamically changing music and ambience if you're using orchestral recordings, can you?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 03:35:15 PM
But then again, video reviews SUCK for those of us trying to avoid spoilers.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 17, 2006, 03:36:43 PM
They're the ONLY ones who complain about the Wii controls. The spoiler in their review is just icing on the cake.
Post by: Artimus on November 17, 2006, 03:37:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Crimm
I agree with IGN on the music. Nintendo really needs to get into orchestrating their music. I can understand size limitations of a GC disk (since it was a GC game), but all Wii games that get the Zelda budget should be orchestrated from this moment forward.
You can't get dynamically changing music and ambience if you're using orchestral recordings, can you?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Not as such, but MIDIs don't change dynamically. They're pre-set and just fade into each other when it becomes appropriate. All possible with orchestrated music (see Final Fantasy, which does do music well). Not he praises the composition a lot, really loved the actual music. He just wanted to see more justice to it, and who doesn't want that? It's not like voice acting where it could easily suck.
Post by: Crimm on November 17, 2006, 03:42:06 PM
You could also take symphonic music and apply virtual instruments or audio filters into the mix to achieve thematic changes.
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 03:46:48 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on November 17, 2006, 03:54:44 PM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 17, 2006, 04:00:08 PM
Edit: Sorry about the error I had a memory lapse when i was typing i hate how gamespy and gamespot have similar names.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 17, 2006, 04:11:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
Oddly enough after reading about Gamespot's bitching about Wiis controls my respect for IGN,gamespot and to a smaller extent 1UP grew. The reason why is even though some of the reviewers sound whiny atleast they are trying to embrace the new type of control scheme and try to differenciate if they are great,excellent or bad/sloppy or just plain shoe-horned in.
Wait, what...
So you agree Gamespot is being overly whiny about ii, but your respect towards them grew?
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 04:14:45 PM
...but they failed.
*phew*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on November 17, 2006, 04:16:37 PM
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Originally posted by: Artimus
It's because Gamespot averages the individual scores. So sound and Gameplay are equal.
As far as I know its not an average, gameplay wheights more, but they did gave gameplay a "low" score (8 by all means is good, but oh god do it to Zelda and blood will be spilled)
Theres also the fact that in sound and graphics the game just doesn't compare with wii games, its a GC game in a wii package, and GS has the tendency to give that importance, the graphics and sound score are not absolute but rather relative to what can be expected from the specific console. They do the same for gameplay, thats probably why they give it an 8, given the promise of the console, expect gameplay scores to be rated harshly from their site.
Of course their rating system is flawed, and overall ratings mean little to nothing, I'd love to read the review to see how good really is but every single review of the game is all full of spoilers (I consider the name of the first town a spoiler) so I will have to get back to this in mid december when I get the damn game.
Post by: wandering on November 17, 2006, 04:29:43 PM
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Originally posted by: Kairon
Ah. Glad to be educated. I guess springing for audiophile goodies isn't as high on Nintendo's list as some would like. But that's not really a surprise now is it?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I don't consider orchestrated music an "audiophile goodie." Music is important. Having it played by real live human beings, instead of computers, would add to the experience and heighten the emotional impact of the game, whether you're an audiophile or not.
Post by: segagamer12 on November 17, 2006, 04:39:57 PM
I have recordings of string instruments that I sample into my Hip-Hop tracks and they sound fine for that cuz its Hip-Hop. But when I actually tried sampling these recordings into a full orchestra sounding file meant to use in a soundtrack I was working on it didnt capture the feel a real orchestra could.
Not thet anyone cares but I can upload the recordings I made for refference if interested. It really does makea difference. Also I can't believe anyone still uses midi, thats archaic.
Oh and to reply to the topic I aint reading any reviews before i play this game and I refused to watch any trailers. I don't wanna spoil nothing and I trust Nintendo to get Zelda right, I mean they can't mess it up twice.
Post by: wandering on November 17, 2006, 04:48:08 PM
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I trust Nintendo to get Zelda right, I mean they can't mess it up twice.
I sincerely hope you're referring to Adventure of Link.
Post by: segagamer12 on November 17, 2006, 04:49:41 PM
Post by: Mario on November 17, 2006, 04:52:33 PM
Post by: White Mage on November 17, 2006, 04:55:29 PM
Post by: Edfishy on November 17, 2006, 05:41:12 PM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 17, 2006, 05:46:54 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on November 17, 2006, 06:04:42 PM
On the other hand, if he mentions voice acting in a review one more time...
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 06:48:46 PM
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Originally posted by: segagamer12
Not thet anyone cares but I can upload the recordings I made for refference if interested. It really does makea difference. Also I can't believe anyone still uses midi, thats archaic.
Could you? I'd like to know what all the hubbub is about.
Certainly there's a certain performance aspect to music, but... I just may be an audio philistine.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on November 17, 2006, 09:13:34 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 17, 2006, 09:26:04 PM
Post by: WalkingTheCow on November 17, 2006, 09:42:19 PM
That said, it's quite possible that Twilight Princess will end up being heralded as the greatest game for years to come but we can never say it took full advantage of what the system is capable of. . . And that seems to be everyone's single gripe in their written reviews as well.
That being said, I've been thrilled at the scores I'm seeing everywhere (Gamespot excluded. But they've always been a little. . . funny). I can't wait to get my hands on it.
Post by: Ghisy on November 17, 2006, 10:46:42 PM
OMG THE GAME DOESN"T HAVE VOICE-ACTING, IT'S TEH L00SE!!
Seriously, I couldn't care less about voice acting in a Zelda game. At least, we don't end up having 30 minute-long CGI cutscenes that ruin the mood.
I used to like Gamespot reviews but now, I'm not so sure they're credible.
Jeff, just get a PS3 and review Riiiiidge Racerrrrrr, now that should be fun! Unless someone is too biased, huh?
Post by: ShyGuy on November 17, 2006, 11:57:39 PM
Post by: ThePerm on November 18, 2006, 04:27:19 AM
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 18, 2006, 04:53:52 AM
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Originally posted by: ThePerm
ign has their review up
...and they complain about lack of voice acting. Now I have only played a couple games that had it (Splinter Cell comes to mind) and I never found it to be that great. Perhaps it adds a level of polish, but it does absolutely nothing for enhancing gameplay.
That being said, I only read IGN's closing comments (to avoid any spoilers) and I am more excited for the game than ever.
Post by: mantidor on November 18, 2006, 05:33:46 AM
midi has the advantage of being dynamic, it can change depending on the action in a very subtle way which is cool, but I'd prefer orchestrated music honestly. Well, the best would be a combination of both but is it possible?Post by: Martin Q. Blank on November 18, 2006, 05:41:12 AM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 18, 2006, 06:11:12 AM
But u know everyone would be up in arms if Halo got a score under 9 too. Personally if Halo games scored a 7.5-8.5 range I'd say they ranked it perfectly. I still can't believe some people think Halo is a better game than say Half-Life or even Goldeneye...
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 06:24:18 AM
Oh, and in my opinion, Halo is a 9.3.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on November 18, 2006, 06:28:56 AM
Granted, I doubt that Joe Consumer puts much stock in internet game reviews, but hyper-critical reviews that obsess on something like voice acting (Miyamoto has only stated a thousand times that he doesn't want any voice acting in a Zelda game) could potentially rob from the game's positive buzz. Another irritant is seeing a Zelda game being ranked lower than what is essentially a polished rank-and-file FPS.
Post by: Dasmos on November 18, 2006, 09:07:04 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 18, 2006, 09:10:03 PM
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Originally posted by: Dasmos
clearly zelda GC is a perfect 10 game.
That may be true, but really I'm of the opinion that a great game should get amazing scores no matter what system is on. But I guess that is mainly because I don't see the graphics as a huge determinate in what a game should get ratings wise.
