Post by: MegaByte on November 04, 2006, 09:56:08 AM
CVG had a brief interview with Nintendo to get some specifics on Virtual Console capabilities and limitations. Nintendo solidified several earlier comments while passing on a few new details.
Virtual Console games are downloadable to the 512MB of internal Wii storage as well as to SD cards and include a digital instruction manual. The console stores a history of all games downloaded and will allow games to be redownloaded if they are lost. However, downloaded games are tied to the console in which they were downloaded on and cannot be played on another console. In the unfortunate case that the system breaks, Nintendo will offer support to recover lost downloaded games.
Games on the Virtual Console can be played with the classic controller as well as GameCube controllers. The Wii remote can also be used to play NES Virtual Console games. However, the classic controller is not compatible with GameCube games; only GameCube controllers will work while the system is in GameCube mode. In Virtual Console mode, Wii controllers take priority over any plugged in GameCube controllers.
Games available for download for Virtual Console is based on the region of the system. For example, a US console, no matter where it is physically located in the world, can only access the US catalog. This means that an imported Wii could access the Virtual Console games from the region it was imported from, though Nintendo stresses that this would void the warranty.
Initially, only 2,000-point Wii Points cards will be offered for sale. Wii Points can also be purchased with a credit card via the Wii Shop. Each Wii account can hold up to 10,000 points at a time.
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 04, 2006, 11:05:40 AM
Everything else sounds pretty good.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 04, 2006, 11:09:15 AM
But it would be much much more convienent, practicle and safe to just travel with a small SD card in your pocket.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 04, 2006, 11:23:13 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on November 04, 2006, 11:26:25 AM
Post by: aagushi on November 04, 2006, 11:35:31 AM
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 04, 2006, 11:58:14 AM
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Originally posted by: Bloodworth
As horrible as it is that we can't get VC games from other regions, I can't figure out how it would work legally. Games often have different publishers in different regions. So if Marvelous is offering Harvest Moon for SNES in Japan, Natsume isn't getting that money if US players download the Japanese version.
I can see conflicts between different publishers, but I would think that the legal rights of each publisher would have been spelled out clearly when the game was initially released. True, Natsume would not be getting money for downloads of the Japanese Harvest Moon, but why should they? They never published the Japanese version of the game, so why should they profit from it now? Unless there are conflicting contracts between the developer and regional publishers, I can't see a problem.
Post by: Bloodworth on November 04, 2006, 12:02:46 PM
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Does that mean Australia won't be getting Chrono Trigger AGAIN? Even on VC?
Not necessarily. It's completely up to the publisher. If Square-Enix wants to put it out there, they will. Or if they simply want to sign the publishing rights over to Nintendo, they could do that too. Unreleased games aren't nearly as complicated as games with different publishers across regions.
In any case it reveals how silly the whole ordeal is. There is ONE Internet, and they're telling people that they can't download content that's in English because it hasn't been released for Australia yet? Excuse me. Some import shop is going to figure out a mod and it will either beat the system or Nintendo will end up in some stupid war, cutting off access to modded systems.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 04, 2006, 12:26:13 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 04, 2006, 01:34:10 PM
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Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I am bothered in that your games are linked to your system, with the 360 they are linked to your account so you can download them on multiple systems. It is kind of dissapointing that my Wii system could die on me and I'd lose all my VC games (that seems to be a tedious process to give it to Nintendo).
They said they'd work with anyone who had that happen so they wouldn't lose their games. It's in the interview.
I'm more concerned that every game you download will be a different channel. I want all my VC stuff in one channel, or at least one per system.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 04, 2006, 01:51:48 PM
Post by: Pale on November 04, 2006, 02:22:54 PM
Post by: Arbok on November 04, 2006, 03:02:31 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 04, 2006, 03:05:22 PM
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Originally posted by: Arbok
So wait, you can just use the Gamecube controllers on virtual console games? Pft, so much for getting those "Classic Controllers" than... I can sure say my wallet is happy about it, while my setup will be far less clutered with just GCN and Wiimotes around as opposed to all three.
I know I will be getting the classic controller, not only because I like the looks of it, but because there could be some games in the future that utilize it for wii.
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 04, 2006, 04:44:26 PM
I really hope hackers quickly find a way around the VC region locking. The 2006 release schedule for NA sucks compared to Japan, and I don't understand why NA is the only region not getting Donkey Kong Country on the VC this year.
Post by: Nick DiMola on November 04, 2006, 04:59:06 PM
Post by: Guitar Smasher on November 04, 2006, 05:03:54 PM
Post by: Arbok on November 04, 2006, 05:20:33 PM
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Originally posted by: VGrevolution
...but because there could be some games in the future that utilize it for wii.
Well personally speaking, when they release a game I want that doesn't use the Gamecube controller or the Wiimote, then I will consider it. I won't buy them simply on the basis that they "could" do something interesting with them in the future.
I really am happy, though, that Nintendo is letting us use the Gamecube controllers, as now I can already play four player VC games without having to shell out anymore money. On the other hand, I really can't understand why they won't let the "Classic Controllers" play Gamecube games... unless they would prefer us to use the GCN ones.
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Originally posted by: Guitar Smasher
Wouldn't there also be an issue with ESRB ratings for out-of-region games?
Glad someone brought that up, as Sega had to resubmit all of their games to the ESRB before being placed on the VC list... so I'm sure that slows the entire process down for the US.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 04, 2006, 05:25:34 PM
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Originally posted by: Arbok I really can't understand why they won't let the "Classic Controllers" play Gamecube games... unless they would prefer us to use the GCN ones.
Because the Wii doesn't know it isn't a GC when it's emulating a GC.
There's basically a GC built into the top of the Wii. Funny how it didn't cost Nintendo that much while Sony needed the PS3 to have a PS2 built in...
They'd need to reprogram the GC hardware to utilize the bluetooth interface that both the classic controller and the Wiimote use.
When it's running in GC mode, something tells me that it is, for all intents and purposes, a GC, minus the GBA Player and the network adapter.
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 04, 2006, 05:27:37 PM
Why this is I don't know since stores are willing to sell unrated movies. Then again, these are the same stores that will sell R rated movies to a 10 year old but not a M rated game.
Post by: Arbok on November 04, 2006, 06:07:20 PM
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Because the Wii doesn't know it isn't a GC when it's emulating a GC.
...
When it's running in GC mode, something tells me that it is, for all intents and purposes, a GC, minus the GBA Player and the network adapter.
Makes sense to me, actually. Not ideal of course, but that's a very logical reason why there is no "Classic Controller" support for the Gamecube games.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on November 04, 2006, 06:21:19 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 04, 2006, 06:35:16 PM
I agree with the restriction of sharing, but not being able to play it on any Wii system? What if I downloaded a cool N64 game, my system dies down and I want to play it on my friend's Wii. I can't do it?
I'm sure someone will find a way around it. or at least Nintendo will probably realize that people don't like this and change it.
Post by: Smoke39 on November 04, 2006, 06:37:25 PM
Post by: BlkPaladin on November 04, 2006, 06:45:38 PM
On a funny note. When I went to E3 and talked to Nintendo about me publishing for the virtual console. (i.e. making games and either doing it myself as a channel, or going through them. This is one of the things I brought up since at GDC I talked to a security expert about this very technology. Which the rep I was talking with seemed very interested in. I doubt this is the reason Nintendo is using since anything NOA plans to do they first have to send it to NCL for a approval. I'm currently getting a profilio together to send to the person at NOA and hopefully it will get sent to NCL.
A reason for making things regoinal is for polling purposes, it makes book work a lot easier on the respective division to say how many games are being bought and where, what type, so the correct games get released for the area.
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Technically companies don't HAVE to submit their games to the ESRB, but I don't think Nintendo would let unrated games on their systems and I don't think most stores would sell unrated games.
Yeah technically they don't have, but if they want to be recognized by the industry in the United States they need to submit them. And the older games shouldn't pose any problems for rating, since they are already existing product, most of them fall under what is know as a Grandfather Clause. Since no rating system was enacted back when they were made as long as nothing is being added there is no need to submit them. (A grandfather clause is used in government when a policy is changed. For example if Social Security is scrap those that are on it will still get their checks but no one else will be added to program after it is enacted unless there is a clause saying such.
My french teacher in High School came to the US after WWII from France, and during that time it wasn't against the law to have citizenship to two different countries. So she was a citizen of France and the US. But in the 1980's they changed that law but she was allow to keep the two citizenship under the Grandfather clause. As long as she doesn't change her perminate address.
Post by: Aussie Ben PGC on November 04, 2006, 08:02:09 PM
Although I am pleased that I'll be able to use my Hori GameCube pad to play my SNES games, that works out great.
Post by: BlkPaladin on November 04, 2006, 09:11:26 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 04, 2006, 10:13:21 PM
Post by: BlkPaladin on November 05, 2006, 01:15:01 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 05, 2006, 03:22:58 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2006, 04:38:55 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 05, 2006, 04:47:06 AM
Post by: Ceric on November 05, 2006, 06:42:27 AM
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Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Arbok I really can't understand why they won't let the "Classic Controllers" play Gamecube games... unless they would prefer us to use the GCN ones.
Because the Wii doesn't know it isn't a GC when it's emulating a GC.
There's basically a GC built into the top of the Wii. Funny how it didn't cost Nintendo that much while Sony needed the PS3 to have a PS2 built in...
They'd need to reprogram the GC hardware to utilize the bluetooth interface that both the classic controller and the Wiimote use.
When it's running in GC mode, something tells me that it is, for all intents and purposes, a GC, minus the GBA Player and the network adapter.
Because Nintendo has a similar architecture. Yeah, somewhere it was stated that things would be clocked down to be similar to the speeds of the GC even. Also from what I've read from the Linux on Cube project pretty much the cube had a bootloader and the setting screen. It would literal just start your code and you take it from there. Yeah it be weird playing games designed with the cube controller in mind with teh classic controller.
Post by: TheBlackCat on November 05, 2006, 06:54:21 AM
However, it is not just a matter of the processors, it is a matter of the other hardware as well. GC games are written to interact with GC hardware like the GC controller ports and GC controllers. Without some sort of hardware virtualizer that makes one controller appear to be the another to the games it would not be possible to get it to work. The problem is that the GC games most likely take over the processors and use them for their own purposes. It may be very difficult to get the CPU to run code for a controller emulator like that while they are running code for the GC game at the same time if the GC game has been given complete control over what the CPU does already.
Post by: MegaByte on November 05, 2006, 08:46:30 AM
Post by: therat on November 05, 2006, 09:09:43 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on November 05, 2006, 09:13:12 AM
Post by: Caliban on November 05, 2006, 11:03:49 AM
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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
There's still hope at getting Terranigma in the U.S.! ;_;
It never came out in the U.S.? That sucks so badly I can't even fathom the pain I will be feeling if they don't release it for the VC in North-America. Nah, I won't feel any pain, but it will still be pretty lame.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on November 05, 2006, 11:38:30 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 05, 2006, 11:40:34 AM
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Originally posted by: therat
well, i give it two months before its hacked wide open and we download games from torrent sites.
Heh, agreed.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2006, 11:46:50 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 05, 2006, 11:49:12 AM
Post by: BlkPaladin on November 05, 2006, 12:57:19 PM
Post by: AManatee2 on November 05, 2006, 03:09:09 PM
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Whatever happened to the USB storage alternatives?
Indeed. The USB storage can still be used for pretty much any saves, right?
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 05, 2006, 03:40:05 PM
Yeah, you can't save on USB storage device, not initially at least. It's possible that in the future a firmware upgrade will allow it, but don't your breath. Sorry.
Post by: AnyoneEB on November 06, 2006, 05:58:25 AM
The VC games will probably just be a ROM along with a signature saying that Nintendo verifies that Wii#NNN is authorized to play this ROM. Whether or not it is encrypted does not matter. The Wii would simply refuse to play ROMs with that signature, and that would be secure. In order to crack it, you would have to modify or remove the signature check, which, if Nintendo is smart, would be handled in ROM, not in the flash. I guess if it is handled by the flash, then it would be possible to modify the VC software to ignore the check and just play any downloaded ROM (put into the Wii VC format).
Post by: Ian Sane on November 06, 2006, 06:49:42 AM
Technically you can pirate import games as well but many of us still obtain import games legally. For me at least I want to buy some games that originally were never released in North America. Finding some way to bypass the region limitation but still being able to purchase the game allows me to get the game I want without stealing it. What we really want is something like we have now where we can just import a game and everything is legal. That sadly is probably not possible with the VC.
Odds are the "solution" will be illegally downloaded roms. Any solution to bypass region coding would probably just allow free games period.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 06, 2006, 07:35:06 AM
Lik-Sang used to make and sell those (SmartJoy was a part of them) but as we all know Sony nuked them.
Post by: Pale on November 06, 2006, 08:01:43 AM
You do realize that Nintendo has some ulterior motives for the WiiConnect24 thing right? It's the perfect piracy prevention. They can check your Wii out whenever they want! perverts!
Post by: BlkPaladin on November 06, 2006, 02:31:51 PM
Post by: MegaByte on November 06, 2006, 03:13:45 PM
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Originally posted by: AnyoneEB
Everyone talking about "cracking" the VC: Why?! All of the ROMs that will ever be available on the VC are currently trivial to find online and download for free. The whole point of the VC is to offer a legal way to play those games. If you want to use a GCN controller for your emulated games, go ahead and buy a GCN-USB adapter (actually, I don't know if they exist, but they probably do).
You can't say that's "the whole point." VC also allows you to play games on a TV through a user-friendly interface, the TV possibly situated away from people's computers, yet in a location where their other games are. The portability of a Wii also allows said games to be easily transported elsewhere. Also, Wavebirds don't work on GCN-USB adapters.
